The Avenger carried it's torpedo in an internal bomb-bay, doors closed. It had to drop, releasing safeties, for it's motor to activate and warhead to arm. Rather an unlikkely series of events for that torpedo to have come from a ditching Avenger, don't you think?

@petestorz172

Ай бұрын

Also, USN torpedoes were not, at that point in the war, renowned for exploding when they hit. They were reliably unreliable.

@skyneahistory2306

Ай бұрын

I mean, I consider it an incredibly unlikely thing, bordering on unbelievable. *But* It’s become accepted enough as a possible outcome that it’d be remiss of me to not mention it. Regardless of how unlikely it may be.

@lnchgj

Ай бұрын

@@skyneahistory2306 You are correct, of course. I worked on a TBM for a few years at an air museum and got to know it and it's systems pretty well. Just wanted to point it out, lets face, anything can happen. Another wuestion, why did they rule out the Porters own torpedo, or another us navy torpedo, or a IJN surface ship torpedo?

@waynedavis7245

Ай бұрын

Very true . I can't believe that a torpedo came from a Avenger. I 100% agree with you. Thanks for stating the obvious.

@jeffwaddell66

Ай бұрын

I do agree that it is unlikely to be the Advenger's torpedo. I also will add that it may have been in the airplane before the plane hit the water. But it is a heavy piece of equipment that is held in by some mountings. It could have extracted itself when the plane hit the water. I am not sure what stall speed is on a advenger but I am sure it is above 100 mph. Hit the water at that speed could relocate almost anything.

You forgot to mention the biggest piece of bad luck of all. Had it been an american torpedo that hit the porter the fact that it wasnt a dud!

3 points to consider. 1) SOP for USN aircraft is to jettison stores before ditching, unless there is any indication of mechanical failure that will prevent closing a bomb bay. A jettisoned torpedo should not activate or arm on its own. Yes, there were issues with USN torpedoes at that time, but those issues were specific and known. You cannot just say "well, US torpedoes were faulty so that would cause it". Yeah, and the 73 Ford Pinto was known for catching fire if hit from the rear; that doesn't mean if a windshield wiper blade wore out it was just because it was mounted on a 73 Pinto. 2) If the torpedo was not jettisoned, the idea that it would break loose from its shackles during the impact of ditching yet still remain fully functional, manage to sink out of a bomb bay that would have been closed unless the torpedo had been previously jettisoned, then accidentally activate its motor, accidentally set its depth setting to engage a destroyer, accidentally arm its warhead, and by pure chance set off on a vector that precisely intercepted the course of the Porter at exactly the right time, is absolutely ludicrous. It takes an entire roll of tin foil to make a hat that would fit someone who believes that. 3) The ship was engaged in rescuing air crews that had ditched. At least one Japanese submarine was in the area, tossing out torpedoes for shits and giggles. And Japanese records that survived the war are known to be patchy at best. Why is it so hard to believe that the Porter's crew saw an Avenger ditching in the area, possibly facing towards the ship, which was hit by a torpedo from an undetected submarine shortly thereafter, and drew the wrong conclusion? That is by far the most logical and probable explanation. Occam's Razor, people; it's real, not just a Hollywood fictional phrase.

I've always loved the look of the Porters.....

Great looking ship. Equally great video.

USS Selfridge, a Porter class destroyer, was involved in the last IJN victory of the war. She was crippled by a torpedo hit from IJN Samidare which blew off her bow.

@robwernet9609

Ай бұрын

Boy american ships were renown for having their bows blown away.

@mbryson2899

Ай бұрын

​@@robwernet9609Bows and sterns being blown off were fairly common in the IJN, Kriegsmarine, and Royal Navy, too. I believe they are a weak point in many ships of that era.

@JGCR59

Ай бұрын

Not exactly the last victory, USS Cooper got sunk in 44

@metaknight115

Ай бұрын

@@JGCR59 That was part of the overall battle of Ormoc bay, which was a US victory. Six US ships were sunk, as opposed to Japan's 29.

I have really enjoyed studying the Battle of Santa Cruz, but I never knew about this incident. Much of the focus on the battle is primarily on the carriers.

I didn't know about the TT reloads. Very interesting.

I-21 survived that patrol and her logs don't record her firing torpedoes at that point. She most likely wouldn't have tried for USS Porter and would have tried for USS Enterprise or Hornet, anyway. They do record her firing six at a "Colorado-class battleship" the next day and claims one hit. USS Washington had a torpedo explode in her wake that day and her escorts depth charged a submarine. A circling torpedo near the ditching site was also noted before Porter got hit as well.

Your videos are always well done. Thank you.

Thank you for these videos. I find them all well-researched and fascinating!

Thank you for doing the Porter DL's....always had a soft spot for the interwar destroyers..

I believe her sinking should be credited to the Japanese light carrier Zuiho, as her aircraft shot down the plane which friendly fired Porter.

what a tragic irony,,and waste of life and resources..war is hell..

I like this video a lot thank you I found this video rather interesting

I liked the Porter from PayBack. Thanks, Skynea. Take care.

Very interesting! I am somewhat skeptical that a torpedo from a ditching Avenger could survive the impact, fall out through torpedo bay doors that were closed unless the ditching jarred them open, the torpedo activate, happen to hit the Porter, and then the notorious detonator actually work.

Would love to have a video on the SS Red Oak Victory someday. She's named for my hometown (Red Oak, Iowa)!

Well I guess someday someone's going to have to get down there and have a look at the wreck of the USS Porter and determine was it friendly fire or enemy action that sanket..

You should do a few shows with drachinefell

There must be something wrong with USN destroyers named Porter, be it DD-356 or Willie Dee.

Probably the only people that'll take note of the name & class of ship nowadays are gamers.. As three of the ships in various fits appear in one title (DD-356 as built, DD-362 in 1941 refit, DD-360 in 1944 refit). But I've chatted to a few older people that'll talk about these ships but for the most part the wording at 0:36 is correct. Honestly the submarine possibility seems more likely then accidental blue on blue especially with the allied aircraft being a TBF as mentioned in other comments here. Say speaking of blue on blue will you ever cover the lose of the British Halycon class Minesweepers off Normandy August 1944 with two ships sunk under RAF attack & one ridden off to heavy damage which saw only one ship survive? (RIP if you have an I'm forgetting).

Can't really see flying all the way to attack japanese fleet with a torpedo and not drop it. Unless something mechanical or battle damage hung the doors open and the torpedo failed to release. Then I could see it launching itself upon impact when ditching. Not as far fetched as some believe.

Hopefully her wreck will be discovered some day, I’d imagine she will be in the same condition as USS Hornet.

I don't buy the avenger thing either. Crap torpedoes inside a bomb bay. Nah

The Washington Naval Treaty NEVER Happened - Would WWII Ever have happened - Discuss?

Why the heck are there double guns on the mounts. Those should be singles.