I could listen to you talk about this stuff all day!!! Love it Greg!!! It's ppl like you that make the world and more specifically the construction industry better.

People like you are so generous! Thank you for sharing your expertise!

@gregvancom

3 жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

I recently found your channel and I've been slowly going through your catalog of videos. I think the thing that I appreciate the most about your content is the fact that you're even trying to expose people to structural engineering ideas. I know it's a lot of potential liability (hence you constantly reminding us to get an engineer) But if you weren't putting out content like this, I wouldn't be exposed to all these different ideas and principles as much as I have. Thanks for sharing all of your experience!

@gregvancom

4 жыл бұрын

You are very welcome and keep learning.

if you securely fix the outer timbers of the dwarf wall to the eternal gable blockwork (resin bolts or even built in) then use 18mm ply or OSB to clad your dwarf wall you lose storage access to the eves but the dwarf wall acts as a boxbeam that has immense strength.

i WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR THIS it has help immensely helpful I have put braces under he eves and will use this area for storage I am also going to add the wall type braces and put doors in certain area;s so as to be able to get at these storage area's so I thank you and will be viewing your other vids cheers for now ..

This is incredibly helpful! Thank you so much.

@gregvancom

8 жыл бұрын

You bet and thanks for watching.

@jehu8822

3 жыл бұрын

Much clearer than others

Very informative, easy to understand best video out there cheers mate

@gregvancom

4 жыл бұрын

I never get tired of hearing comments like yours and thanks for watching.

This is good information. I live in a small town in a farming community. Most of our garages in town were built with 2 x 4's and have done just fine.

@gregvancom

3 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing!

Glad u mentioned undersized ceiling joists cuz I have an older home with (true) 2x4 rafters that were supported via vertical braces to the ceiling joists. I have been seeing very slow progression of some wall and ceiling cracks and the engineer said it was because the vertical roof supports were offloading roof weight onto the ceiling joists. His suggestion was to install mid-height collar ties and remove all the vertical braces.

@gregvancom

Жыл бұрын

If the ceiling joist aren't under sized and aren't sagging, then I don't see why you can't remove vertical bracing, but at the same time, if you asked an engineer, then they usually can help with the information you're looking for.

Great Video, please keep up the great work! 👍👍👍

@gregvancom

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks and I will.

The roof support is a rectangle beaker with curls at the end of it at the top of the beaker and is used to hold the roof up on the roof support beam for the middle of the front and back room

I want my new stairs to go up inside wall on ground floor to roof ,but angle if roof won't allow this how can I manage this ,can I change the pitch of the roof

Great job. Best regards. Thank you.

@gregvancom

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you too!

Would adding a vertical slim steel beam underneath the wall make it more stable? I’m working on doing this above a two car garage and the beam would go right down the middle

Nice layout

Thanks for the good information! Laughing at the “knock yourself out” part.

@gregvancom

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe something that gives away my age:)

I would also add collar ties at the top of the rafters for more ridge support

Can you use 2x4s from ceiling rafters to hang as support to ceiling joist? would that be too much weight?

Your 2 cents is welcome here....Our plans have nearly this but a 17 degree pitch. There's a collar at the ridge, another collar half spar which sits on a wall/purlin which sits on the joists. Joists are double 8x2. Spars 6x2. Purlin wall 4x4. But the rafter seat cut sits on a wall plate 4" high added on the joists, to give room for insulation. I was worried the joists would sag over time as the span on one side is nearly 5 metres with nothing suppoting the purlins/mid rafter underneath them. Curious to know anyones thoughts. Cheers, really good channel. Edit: i will also add extra stubbs to link the joist and rafter ends together like a truss, with a nail plate, to stop any wall plate spread. It gets really snowy here in Baltic land.

The method with the blocks looks great. I believe it would only work with a hot roof. Which would only work in some regions.

@zefrum3

Жыл бұрын

you could for sure bore a whole through each block to allow for ventilation along the deck in the rafter bay and thus have a cold/ventilated roof

Is there a rule of thumb for where the walll needs to be in order to support the roof properly? Does it always have to be the middle of the roof rafters diagonal span?

Hi,any wood framing computer programs the you recommend ...??thanks

@gregvancom

8 жыл бұрын

+Hill Mrs No, but if you ever find one, I would love to see it.

Hey Greg, I was wondering of the implications of having a knee wall supporting the mid-span of the rafters as such, but not being positioned over any type of load-bearing wall. As you mentioned, sizing of the ceiling joists are important because the weight it placed mid-span of each side of the ceiling joists. I have an older home built with old lumber but the ceiling joists are slightly undersized from my research. They are 2x6 ceiling joists and each side spans 16 feet from the exterior wall plate to the interior load-bearing wall. The house was built in the 1930s and many claim the old lumber is considerably stronger than modern lumber. While I’m sure it’s stronger, is it indeed enough to compensate for this setup? To be clear, there are already knee walls in place and I want to know it they are adequate to support the rafters mid-span (also 2x6 old lumber) or if I’m just asking for trouble here. I’d also like to insulate, electrical, drywall, stairwell, etc for a finished attic space and I’m concerned about the strength of the current setup

@gregvancom

2 жыл бұрын

It will depend on the design and structural engineering, but can be done.

Good video. What I like to do is place the top plate of the wall flat against the bottom of the rafters, and then cut my studs on an angle to fit. At least when I'm simply framing the 1/2 story. If I need said wall as a purlin, I might do it a bit differently. Or maybe not. lol

@gregvancom

7 жыл бұрын

That should work just fine.

@Jay-tk7ib

3 жыл бұрын

@@dorothymartin8557 If done as I suggested, the rafter will sit across the top plate, with full bearing, and the studs will be cut at the proper angle to fit beneath the plate. If done as in the example in the video where the stud is placed directly beneath the rafter, I'd use pieces to scab onto the stud and rafter sides.

@Dragon-Slay3r

Жыл бұрын

this is why she rang me when I was outside my sisters house

This is almost what I am dealing with exactly. I have a slight valley in the roof, but this design is almost identical to what I am stressing about. It's an older home with 2x4 ceiling joists and when the homeowners built the "purloin wall" they basically attached 4 2x4s onto just 4 rafters and that added weight has bowed the ceiling joists considerably. I almost want to email you photos to see if you can offer some advice. This is my first home and I in over my head with this decision. I have considered removing the older ceiling joists and replacing them with 2x6. The span of the joists is about 15 feet also. Any other suggestions? I also just considered leveling the existing joists, just to make the drywall easier, and leaving it. I don't plan on having this house for more than 5 years.. any other advice?

@gregvancom

7 жыл бұрын

Feel free to send me some pictures and you can get our email address at the website, but I think you're on the right path. You can remove and replace the ceiling joists with larger ones, to straighten the ceiling out and help to support the roof rafters.

In my attic there is already the walls set up, but I was wondering if I could maybe move one side back a bit more so I have more room up there, I'm only talking about moving it back about 600mm to 700mm.

@gregvancom

5 жыл бұрын

I can't provide you with an answer, because I don't know exactly what's going on. However, when I converted 600 mm to inches it provided me with 24 inches and that's not just a few inches. For example, I don't think it would be as big of a problem if you are going to move something 24 inches on a shorter span like 12 feet, but it might be a problem on longer spans.

Don't know if anyone mentioned this, but if you are worried about ceiling structure sagging or not supporting roof, add what I would call a "strong back" to the bottom plate of the attic wall. It is a 2x6,8,10,12 what ever you think you need nailed (standing up) to the back of the wall (run the length of the wall) and the bottom plate

@itscoconutsaregood

5 жыл бұрын

a new beam supported by the outside walls in other words; I guess?

@johnmcteague3925

4 жыл бұрын

@@itscoconutsaregood yes , normally fit a new suspended floor system,

My home is 100 years old and I'm wanting to add central heat and air in. My attic has 0 vertical support beams. And my ceiling is 2 x 4. I'm scared my ceiling isn't stronge enough for a furnace and duct in the attic. Any thoughts?

My house i s built like that (from 1959). Span is 26ft with a high roof angle allowing grown up person to stand and jump in middle area without reaching the roof. There is a bottom and a top beam to the trusses as per the open plan design (first of your examples) but no braces. The wood used is massive 6x10" in rafters and 4x7" in floor. Roof being spaced at 32" while floor is 24" beam spacing. House is in a 2-meter snow depth area.

@gregvancom

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing and wow, over 6 feet of snow.

In the UK with regards to purlin walls, we always use a header which we "birdsmouth" into a third of the rafter depth. Never independently up the side of each individual rafter. Much stronger structurally

@gregvancom

6 жыл бұрын

I think it would all depend upon the design of the building and it's always nice to hear what other people do in other countries.

@BillyMustang101

6 жыл бұрын

gregvancom can you elaborate more?

@gregvancom

6 жыл бұрын

If you had a large building without interior walls, then it might be better to use ceiling joist to support the roof rafters, instead of using posts and beams that might require more work to the building foundation. If this doesn't make sense, do you think it would be possible for you to send me a picture or a few pictures about what you're referring to.

You said it in so many words. Most of the time it needs modified from th ground up, unless the structure was over built in the first place...

@gregvancom

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, definitely another thing to consider when designing a project like this one.

What would the best way be to make a suitable tie between the roof rafters and a LOWERED first floor ceiling to prevent roof spread.

@gregvancom

3 жыл бұрын

I would need more details or email me a picture of your problem.

I have a home that was built in 1920 and it's a 24' A frame. The roof is 12 years old and it has a sag in the mid section near the ridge. The previous owner converted the attic to a bedroom almost 20 years ago & I have the copy of the permit, which shows they put in a knee wall to this area. I had someone look at the issue today and they said that the rafters are below the wall plate. He also said that I may have to open the ceiling on the second floor to see whether or not the support beams were nailed together or if there is one long beam from front to back. I'm just wondering if I am going to be in a money pit to correct this sag or if there is a way to fix this sag without taking the floor up in the attic bedroom and the ceiling down from the second floor? Can any of this work be done from the outside? Also, who would be the best professional to hire for a job like this....do I hire a roofer, a framer or just a general contractor? Thank you for your video's! They are very informative.

@gregvancom

6 жыл бұрын

It would be difficult for me to tell you how to fix this, without knowing exactly what's wrong with it. It would also be difficult for me to tell you who to hire, without knowing their experience level. For example a roofer might know how to make building repairs and they could be used or a general contractor might be able to fix the framing problem, but wouldn't necessarily have an experienced roofer. Feel free to send me some pictures of your project and I will see if I can provide you with more information. You can get our email address at the website.

shall rafters meet with the ceiling joists at the wall?. I understand that when they do it is called rafter ties. In my case, on 2 joists I added pieces of 2x6 so rafters and joists are connected by that piece. However, the last one at the corner I did not add any piece of wood thus there is a gap in between. However I nailed the joist against the wall. Would that be a problem?. I'm bit stressed out.

@gregvancom

3 жыл бұрын

Rafter ties can usually be spaced 48 inches apart, if that answers your question, if not then provide some more details. If the nearest one is 48 inches from a wall then you should be okay.

Could you talk about removing cross-bracing in a gable-ended attic space (such as the one you illustrated), and what support alternatives exist which would maintain roof integrity? It's a 1920's Craftsman cottage whose attic just begs to be used somehow (except for the classic undersized ceiling joists underfoot, boooo). All the roof rafters are 16" O.C. with wooden cross-braces nailed horizontally every other one, thus completely ruining any "walkability" it might otherwise enjoy. I see attic conversions all the time (granted, with slightly higher-pitched roofs and larger homes to begin with) where I gotta wonder, "How'd they create all this headroom??"

@gregvancom

4 жыл бұрын

If you can email me some pictures for more information and you can get our email address at the website.

If a layout was almost identical except the rafters were 2x6 and the 2x4 wall studs running perpendicular to the rafters didn't typically line up exactly with each rafter would it be safe to assume they do not add any support to the rafters?

@gregvancom

3 жыл бұрын

I think the length of the rafter is more important than where it is positioned as far as providing structural strength. As long as the rafters are sized correctly, then they don't need to line up with the ceiling joist. Let me know if that didn't answer your question.

perfect. this is what i was looking for greg. my house is brick so im sure it will work.

@gregvancom

7 жыл бұрын

Great.

Do the braces need to be over a load bearing wall?

@gregvancom

7 жыл бұрын

I don't know if an engineer or building inspector would approve it today, but it was a common practice years ago to use any wall possible.

Hi, what if the roof construction has 2 purlins on each elevation and is 9" brickwork instead of being a timber framed house. Would that mean there isnt a need for any supports? Thanks

@gregvancom

3 жыл бұрын

No, if the roof purlins were installed, then there's probably a reason why and I would figure that out, before removing them.

@Alexxx---101

3 жыл бұрын

@@gregvancom Hi, thanks for the reply. Sorry I've not been very clear - I dont mean remove the purlin beams I just ment if there's proper purlins installed then is it still necessary to have braces. But I assume the purlins hold the weight of the roof and the braces hold the weight of the ceiling below. Thanks

This is how my house is framed , I have an addition with vaulted trusses Similar roof height that's tied in .. is there a way to open up a 8 foot span , and create a room in the middle ? This room would not be a bed room. For like possible bathroom or walk in Closet. Is it possible to create some type of header to take the load once you cut open the support wall / roof rafters ?!

@gregvancom

Жыл бұрын

You should contact an engineer or roof truss manufacture for details.

1:00 how can you nail the side of that steel tie facing outward?

@samreynolds6399

5 жыл бұрын

Nail it on before you put the board in place

With the blocks could there be a problem with roof ventilation?

@gregvancom

3 жыл бұрын

It would depend upon the construction, but definitely anything that would be blocking or restricting ventilation might need to be done differently.

What if joist are perpendicular to the rafters?

@gregvancom

8 жыл бұрын

Then you would normally install rafter ties on top of the ceiling joist.

@yamiladdi

8 жыл бұрын

joist are 2 x 4 and a framer already sister them with 2 x 8. on top of this Should I add rafter ties?

@gregvancom

8 жыл бұрын

It might not hurt, but it would be hard for me to suggest without seeing a few pictures of your situation. If you want send me a few pictures, but if not and it isn't too much trouble to install them, I couldn't see where it would hurt.

If my living room is made from 2x4 and upstairs is 2x4,and both have pine floorboard, why can't I just put floorboards in an attic?

@gregvancom

3 жыл бұрын

If you're referring to using floorboards for the floor sheathing and it is an approved floor sheathing, then I say go for it. If this didn't answer your question, feel free to provide me with more details or email me a picture and you can get our email address at our website.

If the walls are already there are you able to move them over to creat more space?

Do knee walls also prevent rafters from spreading like ceiling joists?

@gregvancom

2 жыл бұрын

It would depend on the design, but in most cases you will still need the rafter ties or ceiling joist.

@coachgius

2 жыл бұрын

@@gregvancom would hurricane straps be enough? Essentially attaching each rafter to the wall plate or a steel ring beam ?

how is someone supposed to nail a hurricane strap in the orientation and what you show? in real life situation there would be sheathing right up against it

@gregvancom

7 жыл бұрын

The hurricane strap could nail over the plywood.

@SKANK_HUNT49

7 жыл бұрын

gregvancom No I'm talking about 1:10 on the wall.. a wall that is supposed to be carrying the roof load. which is built on top of ceiling joist. in the middle of the joist span. you can't do that the roof load has to be brace directly to a load-bearing wall all the way down to a a pier to the ground

@gregvancom

7 жыл бұрын

Hold on a minute, first you said that the hurricane straps couldn't be nailed on, but they can be. Not all situations like I'm explaining in my examples will require plywood and you need to rewatch the video again. Especially 2:46, 4:30 and 5:10 to the end of the video. Please keep in mind that the examples I use in my videos might not work on every project and I've stated that multiple times throughout the years.

@SKANK_HUNT49

7 жыл бұрын

gregvancom so this is a new construction type scenario? Otherwise wouldn't there be plywood on the roof or t&g or 1x6? I'm just confused I guess. Sorry dude

@gregvancom

7 жыл бұрын

It would be difficult to see the main point of the video with roof sheathing and that's the reason why it's not on. An experienced engineer should have came across plenty of things that lasted for decades, even though they wouldn't be approved by local building departments or make sense using a mathematical formula. I try to provide people with examples of things I've seen in the past while repairing or remodeling older homes and that's all this video is. I'm always open to more questions, so give them to me if you have them.

I realize it wasn't a part of your talk but where are the collar ties in your model? They are critical for preventing the roof from pushing out and collapsing. Also, there is a specific place the collar ties must be placed for them to be effective.

@gregvancom

7 жыл бұрын

Good point and sorry I left them out. Thanks for looking out after me .I would also like to point out that you can use straps that go over the connecting roof rafters and ridge on top of the framing and roof sheathing.

@itscoconutsaregood

5 жыл бұрын

the ceiling joists act as ties at the foot of each rafter; assuming they are substantial enough to carry the framed purlins as well!

@johnmcteague3925

4 жыл бұрын

@@itscoconutsaregood as long a theyre bolted to rafter ends and in the middle where they overlap.

@LampWaters

Жыл бұрын

@@gregvancom I have a collar tie that's same height as my purlin. Is it possible to raise the ties so I have more head room? My braces come towards the center and have tie overhead. I want to raise the ties and move the braces. Not decided on if I want to create my wall supports on top or bottom. Because some places I want to access for sleep nooks. I have to check my joist size i currently have decking but i think they are 2x6. But if I left 4 ft open between some of the purlin suppports I could still access sleeping nooks maybe. Wondering if I can do some portions as kick wall and some as posts? I have hip roof. Is it possible to have kick wall further back than current purlin? Put posts to support current purlin and add a kick wall further back? If I go straight down and wall in at current purlin I lose more my space. I'd like that space for sleeping nooks and why I'm thinking posts. If my floors can manage weight can I just replace each purlin brace with a post? And leave everything open?

So there is no other way to do this ? How about running 3 beams across the center of the roof or something along that line ????

@gregvancom

5 жыл бұрын

There are other ways to support the roof rafters, but these are the most common. Yes you can use beams as long as they're structurally supported by post sitting on top of concrete footings.

I always wanted to put up like a knee high wall and cut out the cross beams so I could use my attic for storage

@gregvancom

3 жыл бұрын

You might need to add more joist or make the floor stronger, unless it's already structurally awesome.

if you put the blocking in as in your second example, you lose the ability to vent the roof from the soffit to the roof vent. not an acceptable form of framing.

@gregvancom

7 жыл бұрын

Good point and you might need to drill some holes in the blocks to allow for ventilation and air circulation.

@anthonyromano8565

6 жыл бұрын

If you use spray foam you dont have to vent.

@benjaminblack5888

6 жыл бұрын

Anthony Romano Ventilation is still required on one side of the wood roof sheathing per code and the APA.

@1weirddoe571

6 жыл бұрын

@@benjaminblack5888, you can't do spray foam and make a cathedral ceiling? Where would you vent if you did spray foam?

@benjaminblack5888

6 жыл бұрын

1weird Doe One option would be to create a vented airspace by placing 1” spacers against the deck, then place foam-board to keep spray out of vented airspace.

Those ceiling joists are not designed to hold that short wall in the attic and needs to be reinforced and load transferred to bearing walls below. Of course it’s only a schematic drawing.

@gregvancom

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, this is just an example and not meant to be a scaled structural model.

are you by chance a structural engineer?

@gregvancom

3 жыл бұрын

no

Make the roof rafters thick by piggy backing and sister them.

Jordan Peterson, is that you?

@gregvancom

5 жыл бұрын

Oh no, not another person to add to my list of people I sound like, but I will take him as a complement.

structural engineer

Jeeze

@gregvancom

3 жыл бұрын

Louise

I had no idea Jordan Peterson also converted lofts…

@gregvancom

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, just don't let me know if you run into me in person:)

In 10 years this country will not exist

@gregvancom

5 жыл бұрын

I don't know about 10 years, maybe 11.

@northernsoldier2280

4 жыл бұрын

Whoa hey! lighten up pal. you're a little dark.