The Combi inverter / charger units with ATS used on some narrowboats and motorhomes have built into them an extra relay which when the mains input to the device is turned off automatically connects Earth to Neutral on the output terminals.

You’re alive then

Great stuff Mike. I suspect this will become an increasingly necessary part of our house-wiring as the world continues to fall apart 🙂

Ooh, mixing brands in your CU? The internet electrical police will be coming for you!

The manufacturer thing is probably more about them than safety For instance, if you put one wylex breaker in a crabtree box, and one of the crabtree breakers failed and caused a fire, crabtree would deny responsibiloty

FWIW in building-scale UPS systems there's generally an additional E-N bond on the output side of the UPS so I imagine the scenario where you bond them on your backup inlet socket should be pretty much equivalent.

Thx Mike, well explained I think ... only slightly distracted by watching you waving a screwdriver inside a consumer unit 😀👍 Hopefully that excellent chap Mr John Ward @jwflame will be able to make a video and give us his (and the regs) take.

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I like to trigger people who are scared of mains!

Here in the US, we also do the "bonded neutral" which is done only at the service entrance, and combined with a ground electrode driven into the actual earth. In the event of backup, we usually don't switch the neutral, so the bond remains in place. You could use a 3-phase transfer switch, and then use the 3rd leg to affect a bond when it's in the "backup" position. Maybe you should just replace the transfer breaker with a standard 2 pole disconnect, but get one with a supervisory switch, so that the backup is connected by a contactor (one at either location?) and that is interlocked with the supervisory switch in the main breaker. I've looked at the commercial solutions, and they use a special 3-way latching contactor that's wired up so that when grid power reappears it will pulse the contactor to drop the backup input and restore the grid, likewise when the grid goes down, it will fire the contactor in the other direction when it sees backup voltage present. This way you aren't paying to keep a coil energized all the time.

BS7671 contains very little on this situation, Chapter 82 is all there is, with what would be 81 and 83 missing, as those parts of 60364 haven't been included. Chapter 82 has only existed for a short time, being introduced in the 2022 version of BS7671. For earthing, an earth electrode is required. Connection to the grid supplied earth can be maintained - and with TN-C-S there really won't be much option anyway, due to other connections via gas/water etc. For practical purposes, this means a local earth electrode permanently connected to the TN-C-S earth terminal. If either conductor of the backup supply is referenced to Earth (which it should be to allow RCDs/RCBOs to operate), then that connection needs to be switched, so that it's not connected when the grid supply is in use. For this example, that could either be in the Bluetti device itself (if the earth connection at the output is already referenced to one or both of the L/N outputs), or if not, then a connection could be added in the cable to the Bluetti, so that it's not there when the changeover switch is in the grid position, or when it's unplugged from the inlet connector. For more permanent installations where the backup supply is not removable, an interlocked switch is required so it can only be disconnected with the other conductors. Other considerations are protection against overcurrent, as the fault current from the backup supply will be extremely limited. In this instance, the Bluetti device already contains overcurrent protection, so any short circuit faults should be covered by that, and if overloading did occur on things like lighting circuits (with current over that of the particular circuit but still within the output current of the Bluetti), the existing circuit breakers/RCBOs would cover that. This is an example of practical installations already being far ahead of what's in BS7671, and it's inevitable that there will be significant changes to all of it in the future. The situation with mixed manufactures devices in a consumer unit is a requirement of type testing as covered in BS EN 61439, and 412.2.1.1 in BS7671. Consumer units are only type tested using devices from the original manufacturer, and therefore any other devices installed put the whole assembly outside of that scope, and not compliant with 412.2.1.1 In many cases there are no ill effects, but there can be issues with thermal and electromagnetic compatibility if mixed circuit breakers, RCDs and so on are used together in ways that were not intended.

For the workshop backup location you might consider a captive key system instead of having to run an extra wire for the interlock. I've been contemplating a solar setup that would normally operate in grid-tie but I want the option to isolate it in case of a power outage. Unfortunately my layout means I can't really use transfer switch without a lot of expensive digging and wire. My plan is to add an interlock to the main breaker which is secured with a captive key. Only once the main breaker is locked off can you remove the key and walk it over to the solar system and put it in stand-alone mode. If you're not going to switch on the backup very often, this might work.

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

Good idea. Now where can I find a 100A captive-key switch...?

@Electronics111

Жыл бұрын

@@mikeselectricstuff Coming from an HVLab background where we have a lot of captive-key systems for interlocks, almost every ridiculously expensive key system can only switch an amp or two max, so contactors all the way down! (Which is quite tricky if there's no power!)

Worth investing in a copy of BS7671 18th Edition which covers this scenario in detail. IIRC the advice around earthing of islanded systems is to have an extra pole on the changeover for earth. When off-grid the incoming earth is disconnected and the backup neutral is connected to the building earth. You also need an earth rod or even an earth loop round the whole property.

I’ve been looking at a changeover switch for my house in order to accommodate my petrol generator in the event of a power cut, but also had to design in a contactor to isolate my solar inverter when in generator mode as I don’t think the two would cooperate together……LOL…….but haven’t pulled the trigger yet after thinking about the RCD issues.

In the enterprise server market there’s a device called STS (source transfer switch) that’s used for alternating two power feeds like a UPS. Most houses here are capped at 3KW so one of those units would do the trick just fine

You can split the board, high loads on grid side and low loads on the UPS side, grid side feeds the UPS , as for earthing, use an earth rod and bond it all together, bridge the neutral to earth on the UPS, its legal as that setup is for backup generators, a Caution two feeds label is needed, I live in England and my house is fed with a PN supply, earthing comes from a ground rod

Your video is very useful and informative. Thank you brother

Bonding the backup neutral to PE: If the backup Live would be connected to the physical earth (during a fault scenario of course) you could leak power back onto the grid putting people working on fixing the gris in harm's way, depending on how much and where the incoming PE-N is bonded to earth. Your incoming PE-N would become neutral via the PE connection to the backup and the earth itself would become Live. It is all "but sometimes" arguments.

Just been through a complete rewire - type B rcd for my victrons then all my critical loads via a changeover switch for my critical loads all with type A rcbos - changeover switch allows me to bypass my victrons for maintenance. added an earth rod to the existing pme setup. The victrons have an internal relay that connects earth to neutral together when they go into island mode. I didn’t want to go full tt or switch the earth. will be making a video shortly showing how it all works

Hi Mike great video I have two questions is the switch 2 pole also when you come from bluetti to mains are you only connecting live and negative no earth if so do you not connect the earth to the bluetti 32a plug.

I imagine this is regulation for fringe cases where someone with a generator happens to be practically alone on their LV/HV branch, be it by design or whatever caused the power outage. In more typical setting where hundreds of houses and apartment units are on the same HV branch before the line break, recloser, switchgear or whatever else, the local impedance would be so low that a generator's breakers would pop as soon as the output attempts to turn on.

What about the rotary isolation switches you can get for solar power systems? IIRC they have to have isolation that prevents backfeeding the grid in the cases of primary supply failure

You can get half width blanks, TLC do them

During a power cut you are not supposed to rely on the suppliers earth. As you highlight, a PEN fault on a TN-C-S supply could leave the earth connection at the head end of your installation floating and your RCDs (mostly) inoperative. There is another implication that you may need to take into account. Many central heating boilers will use flame rectification to detect successful ignition. So if they don't have a proper earth connection they may detect a fault during their ignition proving cycle and lock out. In these cases you will need your own neutral to earth bond on the output of your backup power generator, and also a local earth spike. This basically runs the installation as a system with TT earthing. Older style consumer units without RCD protection for all circuits would be inappropriate for TT operation since the earth loop impedance on the local earth may be two high to reliably trip a normal MCB under fault conditions. (the local earth spike can be left connected on TN-C-S installs - it just becomes yet another earth connection point in the Protective Multiple Earthing (PME) configuration of a TN-C-S supply).

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

Get the point about the earth, but wouldn't be much different to a PEN fault in other circumstances. Disconnecting the earth would be possible, but introduces a risk that the disconnect device could fail under normal use. Considering how little time the backup would be used, on balance, disconnecting the earth is probably less safe statistically. Why would a boiler have an issue with earthing? - the flame detection would be referenced to the boiler's chassis, so how would earthing arrangement of the incoming mains matter? Not familiar with these - do they rely on incoming AC rather than doing sensing internally?

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

So I just tried , and indeed my boiler does complain about the Bluetti's floating supply. Linking E-N made it happy again. Interestingly swapping L/N on the normal mains supply didn't upset it.

@johnrumm4786

Жыл бұрын

@@mikeselectricstuff ISTR that switching the main earth connection in prohibited in BS7671 (it introduces risks of an accidental disconnection). The boiler situation uses the flame as a AC mains leakage path to earth which acts as a half wave rectifier. This allows the flame path to be identified and differentiated from "normal" earth leakage. This why the boiler chassis must be earthed for proper operation and not just fault and over-current protection.

@johnrumm4786

Жыл бұрын

@@mikeselectricstuff We are out in the sticks with overhead supplies - so short power cuts are fairly common, and longer ones tend to happen at least once a year. Current "world events" suggested that the risks of longer/more frequent ones were also more likely over the winter! So last year I installed a 125A transfer switch (similar to the Lewden metal boxed version you showed). This allows the whole house to run from an external generator without any modifications or extra wiring. Since the house is already wired as a TT install, I just included a neutral earth bond in the link cable that runs from the generator to the 32A commando inlet which does the trick.

@connerlabs

Жыл бұрын

Interesting, I’d heard that some boilers refuse to work without the E-N bond but didn’t know why until now! Basically the boiler manufacturer is too cheap to provide an isolated high voltage source referenced to earth for flame detection, they just use the mains, so the mains supply has to be referenced to earth to complete the detection circuit.

i use a change over switch similar to 4:30 to feed my hot water system , one way its on controlled load (ripple receiver for off peak) other way it's fed from a timer to turn the hotwater system on during the day when the sun is shining, and my panels are making power perhaps the sutomatic change over switch big clive tore down might work for your remote feed?

Alternative supplies should have their own ground reference, but connecting the output of most inverters to ground can be bad, as they often have half bridges driving both sides, and thus float from ground. The alternative supply should have it's own ground connection and protection built in to be safe. For your long cable connection you would need some version of the automatic transfer switch, which does have microswitch contacts in it to allow sensing of both switch position, and as well also includes a set of latching relays that change over the supplies. Big Clive did them a while ago.

Are you allowed to do the breaker box work yourself? Do you require an inspection to stay legal?

Be careful with N-E bonding the battery backup as some of them (also inverters and UPS) have a full-bridge that feeds the output, so both the L and N will be actively driven in anti-phase. It might blow up the inverter or it might not do anything if the inverter is completely isolated.

Here in Germany I would use something like the Hager SFT440 for the switchover. It does the exact same thing like the switch Mike used, but for 3 phase power. ABB E214-16-202 might be worth a look for single phase. Usually buildings here have there own grounding (a ring of thick wire burried around the building or inside the concrete). This building grounding is then usually connected at a central point with the grounding/neutral from the grid (TN-C-S) and everything other condictive like water pipes. This combined ground is then used to form the N and the PE for the electrical installation. When you switch the N to the N of the generator, you have to make sure, that the N of the generater is grounded in the generator. Gas generator usually have a ground connection, that often nobody bothers to connect. I don't know if there is such a proper grounding point on the Bluetti unit. Doing the grounding of the N in the breakerpanel is a bit problematic, because another generater you might connect to the power input later may have it's own grounding and an RCD and this won't work then. Probably most people can live with this limitation...

@fkiesel9442

Жыл бұрын

If you are space constraint an need only single phase, the ABB E214-16-202 might be worth a look.

@alanwood9804

Жыл бұрын

The changeover switches you have listed are only rated at 40amp, the incoming supply is fused at 100amp, and in the UK it’s unusual to have an incoming supply of less than 63amp!!

Great informative video, thank you 👍

We used to get loads of power cuts, then we had a hurricane in 87 then they repaired the crappy power cables

I would be concerned about fault clearing. I imagine the Bluetti plenty of oomph to hurt you but doesn't have the oomph to trip any of your breakers in the event of a fault.

One thing to add about mixing brands in CUs, sometimes the MCBs physically don't fit in another CU. While they're all supposed to be standard, I've seen MCBs that are too big to fit the opening of another manufacturers CU, so the kids have been modified/cut to make space, or worse, left off entirely. The regs don't prohibit the mixing, but the installer takes responsibility for assessing the suitability of the combination of parts, rather than relying on the manufacturer's type testing.

Just wondering if the bluetti would run the whole house, I'm thinking of getting eco7 which charge the blueti off peak on a timer and run the house from the bluetti, if the batteries get low in the day I would only need to switch on charging, so no swichting over necessary

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

Yes, as long as the maximum load could be kept under 32A.

In South Africa we also use TN-C-S but there is almost always also an earth spike at each house in case an upstream break severs the utility earth. In our electrical codes any inverter feeding into an RCD must also include an E-N bonding relay which is controlled by the grid (either integrally, or externally). If the grid is down, E-N is bonded to ensure neutral doesn't float and cause RCD/shock issues, if the grid comes back, relay goes open and normal grid provided PEN is assumed. Lastly, check out the Hager changeover switches, SFT240 and SF263, you should be able to get them in the UK.

@alanwood9804

Жыл бұрын

The incoming supply is 100amp, neither of those changeover switches are suitable at 40 and 63 amp respectively.

@ZanderHorn

Жыл бұрын

@@alanwood9804 true, but considering some of the future complexity he is considering it might be worth doing some load splitting, and I trust Hager a bit more than the suspiciously cheap Aliexpress changeover switch

I hope you’ve got a cover for that consumer unit bus bar!

@sdgelectronics

Жыл бұрын

The old MK sentry units didn't have them

@mattmanslim

Жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics Crikey! Or should I say, shocking!

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I just removed it for the video to trigger some people.

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics It does, it clips to the bottom lip of the case

Hi Mike, asking you again here! What's your thought on adding an external battery like SOK rack type with same spec as B300 51.2v 60ah lifepo4 in parallel to the terminal on the B300?

Is that a looped supply from the DNO into your service head ?

16:36 An issue with mixing suppliers of elements of a CU is that the offset of the bus bar is not standardised, so it may not be easy to get a good connection onto it from the ‘alien’ switchgear

@connerlabs

Жыл бұрын

Indeed, that's why it's important to keep trying random breakers from your junk box until you find one that kind of fits 😉

Hi Mike, It is great hearing from you again, it is like having a treat night! Anyway I thought knowing you you would have had its clothes off to see what was inside, Ho well I wonder if clive may get one to check out. A 32 amp inverter for the diy market is a bit intriguing

@tomsixsix

Жыл бұрын

There's another video on this channel with a full teardown - it's a very nicely built unit tbh!

@chilledoutpaul

Жыл бұрын

@@tomsixsix Ho ok thanks for letting me know. I know Julian Ilett had one he stripped down but it was only a small one though

My solution to this for our generator was a Crompton contactor with an interlock controlled by the generator control panel from Datakom

I am not been able to listen to the whole vid, Am I right it is for those who want the backup battery in line / in parallell?

Mike, tails coming in thru separate holes in the DB? ;) Eddy's coming out to play (yes I know it's not really an issue on 100A single phase lol)

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

Not an issue at domestic current levels - I think John Ward did some tests on this. Also, these are not flexi-tails.

@TheChipmunk2008

Жыл бұрын

@@mikeselectricstuff thought so... It's just a stupid thing that we have to mention on condition reports and it just made me think you'd find it amusing

@TheChipmunk2008

Жыл бұрын

I'm 50 and have been an electrician for 35 36 of those years

@Graham_Langley

Жыл бұрын

@@TheChipmunk2008 When I replaced the CU here I cut a slit between the two holes thus making them one hole, expecting the commissioning sparks to pick up on the tails not going through the same hole. They didn't...

@TheChipmunk2008

Жыл бұрын

@@Graham_Langley We always pick it up on EICRs but note it down only as a C3 as at domestic current levels, it's a non issue, was just joking to Mike :)

Why not bond the neutral of the backup power supply to earth (or your earth rod) to give you RCD protection? By the way, you have a lot of capacitance in various SMPSes from N to E that could produce a fatal shock current in your fault scenario, even if you think it is truly floating, it will not be.

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

I'm not convinced there is a net benefit either way, and for the very limited times it's in use, I'm not too concerned. Will give it some thought

I call those incentivisation periods "greenouts"

UK always surprises me, your panel looks like a welder, sucha a thick cables. 240V spares a lot of cooper.

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

Remember it's a 100A supply - much higher than many other countries

@irfp460

Жыл бұрын

The UK uses 240V...

Nice one Mike, I have some rambling comments... Regarding the generator transfer switch I'd be reluctant to put the full load of my house through anything bought from AliExpress. I once saw in the gallery of horrors on an electricians' forum, a homemade transfer switch made from 2 DIN rail switches side by side, with a DIY sliding metal tab that only allowed one or the other to be turned on. If I wanted to add a transfer switch to my consumer unit, I'd do this, keeping the existing main switch for the grid supply and adding a 1P+N breaker for the inverter feed. I also don't see the advantage of lithium ion over lead-acid for standby applications. They have better cycle life than lead-acid, but aren't guaranteed to have a longer calendar life. All Li-Ion batteries I have experience of start to increase internal resistance after about 5 years. So you have to be completely discharging and recharging every few days to get your money's worth. Which admittedly might be possible with the Agile Octopus deal! I'd be on it myself if my smart meter hadn't died.

@connerlabs

Жыл бұрын

I know some LiFePO4 batteries claim 10 years calendar life, but they are a new invention, I don't know if there even are any 10 year old ones yet to prove the claim. So I am reluctant to spend 5x the price of an old fashioned AGM battery.

@ForViewingOnly

Жыл бұрын

I thought the same about the items from AliExpress. Not a risk I'd ever want to take.

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

I did do a check on the switch with thermal camera at high load. Also ordered another to take apart

@ForViewingOnly

Жыл бұрын

@@mikeselectricstuff Nice one Mike. I didn't think you'd just spin the roulette wheel on AliExpress.

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

But how do you interlock the inverter feed ?

Why do UK consumer units switch both the line and neutral? In the US we have both an earth spike/water pipe bonding and neutral from the mains going to a busbar with all the neutrals/grounds of each branch circuit. Seems like by switching the neutral you're inviting the potential of opening the neutral without also opening the line if a contact welds.

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

Welded switch is less likely than a fault that makes the neutral dangerous. UK regs regard both L & N as hazardous. Official wording changed a while ago to Line/Neutral, and "live conductor" in the regs refers to either.

@dannooo548

Жыл бұрын

@@mikeselectricstuff Ah. Very different from US code where the neutral is officially called the "grounded conductor". Of course not to be confused with the "equipment grounding conductor". :)

@johnrumm4786

Жыл бұрын

Both line and neutral are regarded as "live" conductors. Even under normal operating conditions the neutral could be several volts displaced from the earth potential (other properties in the neighbourhood place some load on it, and it has more than zero resistance - so there will be some voltage rise over it's length). For modern TN-C-S supplies with Protective Multiple Earthing and earth/neutral bonds at the main cutout for each property as well as multiple locations in the distribution network - this will be minimal, but for older TN-S supplies where the bond is at the local substation and could be some distance away it can be more significant, and could still pass a substantial current to earth. So a live neutral from a failed switch contact is considered less likely/risky than a live neutral still connected to the supply.

@kevywevvy8833

8 ай бұрын

if the neutral opens at the main switch leaving the live energised it's unlikely to do any harm other than shut the power off.

(bonding the UPS to ground) Matthias Wandell said something about other people's units misbehaving when it's not floating, that might need investigation

You mention BS7671 but there are other regs covering alternate supplies. More important is statutory instruments about power supplies in tandem / direct connection is a bigger problem leading to a possible prosecution. In the distant past while working with the DNO on certain projects the changer over contacts had to be certain gaps and interlocks not as a regulation but as statutory instruments which could lead to a criminal conviction in the same way as tampering with the DNO termination and fuse!! One reason why most online inverters are also limited to 16A without DNO involvement. Even with an online inverter you have to have an isolation with a certain air gap. I presume EV can only supply a max of 16A but charge 32A????

@tomsixsix

Жыл бұрын

The MG4 EV can output up to 7.2kW on its charge port, as well as charge at 7.2kW. I think the ID. Buzz van can do something similar. Definitely not limited to 16A!

Think you answered your own question, in the uk power cuts are so infrequent and quickly come back on. I'd just use it as a stand alone. Not sure there's savings to be had storing off peak either?

@eliotmansfield

Жыл бұрын

I pay 8.5p per kwh by virtue of the fact that 99% of electricity comes from octopus off peak which i store in 19kwh of batteries and use during the day

@connerlabs

Жыл бұрын

@@eliotmansfield Let us know the payback period on the money spent on the batteries 😉

@eliotmansfield

Жыл бұрын

@@connerlabs 5.5 years

How'd you get away with an EV charger on a looped supply? Most DNOs won't permit it

@edc1569

Жыл бұрын

I believe it's only in the last 5 or 6 years that they've been requiring registration, my install pre-dates it.

@FluxLabsProjects

Жыл бұрын

Who says the DNO even knows? Besides I think (from memory) Mike has his charger fed from a 32a plug/socket, so it's not really a EV charger you'd have to let the DNO know about.

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

@@FluxLabsProjects The 32A socket pre-dated the charger. I used it years ago when testing a massive lighting installation. At the time I put the charger in, as far as I could tell, the DNO had no process to notify an end-user connecting a charger to a pre-existing socket. I spoke to them at a recent EV show and they said there was now a process to do it, but damned if I could find it on their website. And I mostly charge at night. Mostly.

@FluxLabsProjects

Жыл бұрын

@@mikeselectricstuff Sounds like a typical DNO scenario. It's unlikely you'll overload the service anyway. I read somewhere that unlooping is free now.

@sdgelectronics

Жыл бұрын

@@mikeselectricstuff ukpn have a half decent microgeneration portal where you can register EV and renewables. I can't remember how far south ukpn serve though. The unlooping is free though. You'll mostly have no issues though. Mostly.

Who fitted those tails that is a real no no! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Afaik there are some commercial automatic changeover switches that comply with code. Might make for interesting teardowns.

@NickStallman

Жыл бұрын

EEVBlog had one not too long ago and tore it down. It was a Chinese cheapie if I remember correctly but would have worked just fine.

From Australia - don't you have your own earth stake at your house? Here every building has its own earth stake, connected to the protective earth, and bonded to neural at the building's meter box (or breaker box if the meter box isn't on the building).

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

Not common in built-up areas here, usually only on more remote properties

Problem I always see with bonding Neutral from backup inverters is that a lot of inverters are center tapped on the output so the earth in these have a voltage between both L and N, I am not sure if bonding it's earth will cause damage to the Backup battery bank, as it's effectively being shorted? If anyone has information on this would be interested as I have been wanting to do this for some time but was going down the route of sunshine solar inverters that have a RCD switch on them that creates the PEN connection internally so must be designed to do it...?

@grahamparks8885

Жыл бұрын

What kind of inverter? The earth pin on the output of most inverters (of the 12/24V car/camper kind) is unconnected. In a vehicle setup you have the issue of the chassis being DC negative and therefore bonding neutral to it could end badly, but in a home setup that shouldn't be a problem.

@noonespecial9131

Жыл бұрын

I have a hybrid Inverter that automatically connects earth to neutral in backup mode.

@MindMeetMaker

Жыл бұрын

@@grahamparks8885 In my testing on 12v meanwell inverter the output seems like earth is the centre tap point on a transformer being 120v between earth and N and earth and L so my worry would be bonding earth to Neutral would short out the output?

@connerlabs

Жыл бұрын

@@MindMeetMaker Bonding the centre tap to earth is the same thing from a protection point of view as bonding the neutral to earth. Either would complete the circuit for leakage current and allow a RCD/GFCI to trip.

I think they would take a dim view if the switches fitted in the consumer unit did not meet the required standards. Need to have a look at BS EN 61439-3:2012 ” Low-voltage switchgear and controlgear assemblies - Distribution boards intended to be operated by ordinary persons (DBO)” as you can’t see these standards without paying an arm n leg, but it looks like your switchgear need to be certified to one of the following IEC 60898-1, IEC 61008, IEC 61009, IEC 62423 and IEC 60269-3 which is not what you often see on switch gear from china. As i note that the change over switch in video the manufacture could not even print the correct CE mark in the front let alone print a fake BS-EN number. I found it easier just to fit solar panels, inverter, and 9.6KWh batteries. But it's still a bugger that then the grid fails, so does my power as the output of the inverter is wired directly in parallel with the in comming mains. 😞

@sdgelectronics

Жыл бұрын

Does the inverter have a backup output?

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

The switch says IEC60947-6-1 on it

@TheEmbeddedHobbyist

Жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics yep, I've got the plug, a spare small fuse box just need to run some cables into the house. Then I will just run a few things like the moden, router, a spare socket to run an extension lead the freezer if required. The backup outlet can supply 5kw if the batteries are charged..

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

The Fusebox 125A changeover switch I mentioned says 60947-3 in the datasheet

Hi Mike, I am curious why you chose this relative low tech solution. Indeed it protects against power outage. But your main target, to limit consumption during peak hours, is easier to achieve. By using a grid tied inverter. There are even specialised ones for 48v battery packs you could keep using your Blueretti :). You can programm them time based and there is no powerloss when start to inject power. Just curious why you chose this rather complicated way.

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

I just wanted the simplest solution that could make use of the kit I already had.

@thomasbreukink8041

Жыл бұрын

​@@mikeselectricstuff makes sense. In the Netherlands powercompanies are decreasing the payout per delivered kwh. With my solar panels this is not good news. That's why a battery becomes increasingly interesting. I had the luxury to design from scratch and went for a grid tied inverter solution. Works great 👍 but no backup in case of power failure.

@guyh3403

Жыл бұрын

@@thomasbreukink8041 Since I'm in the Netherlands as well, I'm curious to know for which exact solution you went. Feel free to share ;)

@thomasbreukink8041

Жыл бұрын

@Hendrik Hansson. I build a system to trade with electricity prices. Purchased a 5 kw 48v battery. A charger and a grid tied inverter. With a RPI I get the hourly rates and based on this I charge/discharge. Earning on average 75 cents per day. If you speak Dutch this guy explains a big deal. youtube.com/@HHalewijn

@guyh3403

Жыл бұрын

@@thomasbreukink8041 Thanks heaps! I'll have a look into the system Harold used. Dankjewel ;)

Watch out for Eddie Mike 😮

Even you with this power box stuff?

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

If you mean Bluetti, I actually turn down the majority of review offers, but a few K's worth of kit for a couple of days' work.. hell yes! And I don't think anyone else had done the deep-dive into switch-over performance I did in the main review video, which I think has value.

If you had a wind turbine installed in the back garden provided the back garden is big enough to facilitate it then why not.

Hm, I don't get it, why my message was deleted? so weird.

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

Wasn't me.

@gylkag

Жыл бұрын

@@mikeselectricstuff Thanks. Then it's YT automatically deleted a comment from Ukraine that has a three-letter word of W and A and R. It's not the 1st time I'm encountering this behavior. It's so nauseating.

all those Samxon electrolytics, they have a poor reputation in my neck of the woods

I wonder if company's schemes to reward you for using less electricity at certain times is counterproductive. Doesn't it mean people will be encouraged to use more electricity at peak periods, when there isn't a reward on, so that they register a bigger saving during the reward period?

@N0gtail

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like a win for the power companies to me. I can't see them complaining about more people using power when it's the most profitable for them.

Aren't people who don't have a badge that says they're a Proper Electrician not meant to meddle inside consumer units? Or do you laugh in the face of such rules?

@mikeselectricstuff

Жыл бұрын

🤣

@jaycee1980

Жыл бұрын

Part P is a complete load of unenforceable bollocks

@Graham_Langley

Жыл бұрын

Looked into this recently. From my reading of the regs you can't change a CU or add circuits to it, so I was OK to convert my Wylex metal CU to full DIN rail in order to swap the old 'balcony' bus-bar type A RCDs to 'flexible' bus-bar type AC ones. Buying a fully-populated CU to rob was cheaper than buying the parts and got me a metal visor front cover too.

@randacnam7321

Жыл бұрын

"Professional electricians" are often complete hacks at best and landmine spreaders at worst.

Back when I thought the AC500 was an actual home backup/ups solution (about 1 hour before I watched this video), I thought it might be an easy solution for my 85 year old mother-in-law - but it's not. It's another over-complicated half-measure. I could train Mum to fumble through her RCD switches in the dark and then flick the master switch or I could drill her on running extension cables all over the house to run her appliances of choice (all in the dark). What a shit-show. It's 2023 and we do not appear to be even working towards a solution. The AC500 can automatically switch between 2 inputs or prioritise one over another and sense voltage or not - but the UK electrical industry - not a chance.

Once a year!? That's like 15 times more common than I am used to

TN-C-S=supplier can't be bothered to supply an earth

@brainndamage

Жыл бұрын

It's better that the earth is local because otherwise big potential differences are possible especially in fault situations or lightning. Earth could become live relative to your local earth (the house or dirt you're standing on, the plumbing you're touching, etc.) In TN-C-S the N-E bond is distributed and present at every consumer so the N and E are much more securely tied to earth. The other possibly better system would be TT but in it the N and L can float around a lot, especially lightning can jump to local E and fry stuff, so a N-E surge protector/lightning arrester is a good idea

"home backup" but it totally violates the K.I.S.S. principle. $5,000 USD can buy an awful lot of diesel or gas generator, and it's a hell of a lot more reliable than a box full of Chinesium.

@silverXnoise

Жыл бұрын

Less racist too.

Really prefer my US style breaker boxes.

@jaro6985

Жыл бұрын

Really? I'd rather have DIN, so many products you can get to fit on a DIN rail.

@jaycee1980

Жыл бұрын

of course you do.. americans do everything better :/

👊 Promo_SM