We really need to see technology catch up to the "threcade" old (minimum from INSTALL) machines in the bowling industry. This string-pin alternative is simply not viable, but we also should not assume it's viable to assume machinery from the 50's and 60's can keep rolling pins. It's unfortunate but bowling has turned into a small dollar sports akin to mini-golf and that simply isn't going to keep our lanes alive. No, your weekly league fee isn't that excessive, especially to the "already had dinner" type. Until bowling CENTERS can drive their cost of ownership down, we can't expect the cost of bowling to decrease in our, the purists, experience.

@BigSkyBowler

Жыл бұрын

Agreed - excellent points.

The only thing I like about string pins is that it's going to bring scores down. I do NOT like how USBC just shook a magic wand (like most Fascists tend to do, and yes I do classify the USBC as a Fascist organization) and made it official. Should have put it to a vote among all their members, or at least a representative vote among major figures in each region so that the members come to a consensus. Like Big Sky says its dangerous. I'm glad that string is lowering scores. We desperately need lower scores in bowling. Like now more than ever. Used to be like candlepin where the most accurate bowler won. 300s/800s used to be incredibly rare. It was all about spares back in the day. Now it's literally about who has more power (which is fine, bowling should focus on athleticism which is often associated with more power) and who has the better draw of equipment (that's stupid because now whoever has the most money/access to good equipment and ball reps wins). 300s/800s are too common, dutch 200s/clean games/clean sweeps are less common and I've never liked that. Bowling should be a sport that shows us that if you are athletic enough to generate power, and are accurate enough to hit what you are looking at from an area that maximizes entry angle, you'll be rewarded. Not about having a better score because you have nine different bowling balls in your bag. If string takes that aspect away, then guess what I'm all for it. Because I absolutely despise how much more bowlers are at the mercy of their equipment draw over the last 15 or so years.

Here in Canada we have had String Pinsetters for years on our Canadian game of 5 pin bowling. Yes it changes the game slightly. Be happy that they have made standards for 10 pin. We have 5 different types of String Pinsetters here and they all run a bit different. A 54 inch string length is plenty to have pins fly around still. That is 4' 5" from corner pin to corner pin (7-10) is only 3' 5". Everything will be ok! It's not the end of the world or bowling.

This has changed a sport into a carnival game for Sat night date nights. Bowling is getting ruined.

@BigSkyBowler

Жыл бұрын

Agreed!

For alleys that don't hold tournaments or have many leagues, it makes sense to make the switch to string pins. I understand the need for the smaller alleys to make money, but it sucks for the bowlers where that is the only house within an hour. I did find it interesting that JR Raymond through out the idea that he would build a training center with string pins to save money since strikes don't matter in practice.

@BigSkyBowler

Жыл бұрын

A training center with string pins..?

@andrewbrakey6214

11 ай бұрын

To be fair if your training score doesn't matter so that makes sense. I wish I had a center built solely to train near me.

One of my local centres converted to strings. At the time, I was a very speed dominant one-handed bowler (I'm now converting to two-hands), and the differences are very present with strings. You definately do strike less. Much much less. By "unusual spare conversions" they mean bounce outs and pins tripping others with the string. If you left a 2-7-8-10, for example, on older string machines (like that which we have in that local centre), you could slam the 10 pin and have it bounce it easily due to the tether of the string, pulling it back onto the lane to trip out the three pins on the left. I won't say this is directly awful for me. Keep in mind I live in the UK where bowling is quite a dying sport. That centre that converted to strings also got much better approaches, ball returns, seating, quite literally everything else. The lanes are really nice, a clean backend, it's just the string pin action. If I compare that to the other house I play in which has such a lack of reinvestment that we play on 5 year old pins and broken fingernails in the gutters, if converting to strings meant solving this issues I would begrudgingly agree. It's still a bad thing, but worth it.

@BigSkyBowler

Жыл бұрын

Ah I see now. Males sense. I did go watch the usbc video finally and I'll post that breakdown as well. String pin centers aren't a problem if they could be kept totally separate and have their own independent average and set of rules etc... I'm very worried that the usbc is trying to lump it all into one. Sounds like the place your talking about used the saved $ from going string pin to improve the rest of the facility. Free fall centers have a hard time making improvements on their machines, pins etc because of the cost. The place I mainly bowl at would have to spend almost way too much to do something simple like an upgrade to their scoring system. The owner bought new pins about 3 years ago and that alone was an astronomical cost.

@ZlueTheDragon

Жыл бұрын

@@BigSkyBowler If it calms you down, the BTBA (UK bowling authority) has had string pins be it's own category for a long time and not pushed it to be merged. The USBC either wants to merge the two or keep them separate, but either way minimise the difference. That, is a good thing in practically any case. While I'm here, I will say your videos have jumpstarted my understanding of the two handed game, even if physically I am struggling to get my hips out of the way consistently and have a consistent axis rotation. Thank you so much for them.

@BigSkyBowler

Жыл бұрын

@@ZlueTheDragon your welcome! Thank you!

Unusual spare conversion rates refers to the fact that, during testing, conversions of splits (like 7-10) were higher because the the pin on the string is more likely to swing back and forth, so it can can ricochet off the back and swing forward. There’s a video that breaks it all down somewhere on KZread. A little nervous about what this change means : /

@BigSkyBowler

Жыл бұрын

Very nervous as well. From what I saw at expo last year. The strings were too short for this kind of activity. Maybe that has changed?

@jonathancaballeros3408

Жыл бұрын

In the new USBC video, they say those conversions have been nearly eliminated. With the new 54" strings, tough splits are now down to 0/90 again.

I don't want to exaggerate, but this could be the downfall of traditional bowling in the coming years. I have no interest in playing string-pin bowling (and bowling has become very, very important in my life). I don't see how it won't change the way the ball interacts with the pins... the dynamics of the game will change for the worse (well, to those who didn't grow up playing string-pin bowling). Quite disappointing news.

@BigSkyBowler

Жыл бұрын

I honestly don't believe it's an exaggeration. Big changes are coming to our sport... one can only hope they aren't this drastic.

It’s there to save the future viability of accessible bowling. It’s not going to hurt anything other than some folks feelings.

@BigSkyBowler

Жыл бұрын

I hope that's the case but I fear it won't be. Look what happened with the whole urethane fiasco. Now ball companies have to continually pore new urethane every year to stay in compliance.

@PinoyBowlerGS92

9 ай бұрын

It ruins the laws of physics of Bowling. Let the pins do the action without anything attach to them. I live in the Philippines btw and Bowling Centers aren’t declining here, yet all of them are still running Free Fall Pinsetters.

i think it's something you need to try before you can have an objective opinion. personally if it plays differently then it's a new game messengers would certainly hit different. pins being tethered would certainly limit their movement, slowing them down, creating drag etc. on the same token the string itself can literally trip other pins. a "wrap 10" would most likely fall after the strings crossed i agree smaller centres would be quick to embrace the tech. especially if they're already struggling with maintaining ancient pinsetters. i'm not going to decry stringpin until i've played it and can say for certain it's a problem. if it keeps bowling centres in the black and lanes functioning for more time during a day it may be a necessary change. the alternative is the regular pinsetters getting made cheaper and more maintainable so they spend less time broken than the macca's soft serve machines

@BigSkyBowler

Жыл бұрын

I agree and I've actually tried them at the last bowl expo. They had a display talking up the string setters. I got to see how they worked and throw a few shots. I can definitely see the strings interfering with better carry in some cases and improving carry in other places in your example of a ring 10 being taken down by the string.

@MrOsmodeus

Жыл бұрын

i wonder how out of range pins get handled? i assume there's no sweeper to clear the pin deck so everything just gets winched up mid frame resetting it's position.

@PinoyBowlerGS92

9 ай бұрын

@@MrOsmodeus Strings are incapable for Out of Range. In the official Bowling rules: If a pin moves off spot, it stays where it was left off after the 1st Ball. On Strings, the pin moved off spot will return back to its normal position after being reset by the String and it made me mad for a lazy invention that USBC approved it. Free Fall Pinsetters are better when dealing with Out of Range because of the Setting Table can detect it when it couldn’t lower further and it will rise back up afterward

i would rather see my fees increase to offset the maintenance than see strings attached to bowling pins. is this is the usbc version of bud light

@BigSkyBowler

Жыл бұрын

I agree.

@chriswebbtech

Жыл бұрын

I don't. Ya'll focus too much on the strings. It really doesn't make that much of a difference. Everyone will be bowling on the same things. Sure you get a few odd drops, but you do with real pins too. You got to think it's not just the machines, but you'll get way less deadwoods, more consistent racks, less broken pin heads due to deadwoods and stuck pins in the deck getting broke by balls hitting them while pinned in the corner. No more waiting on reracks cause of not enough pins in the deck, no 180's waiting on suck pins pinned with the ball. There are a lot more things fixed with the string system. I've bowled on them, they aren't that bad.

@kellydavis4954

Жыл бұрын

@@chriswebbtech once you let them get away with that then your opening the door for holograms pins ..lol

@chriswebbtech

Жыл бұрын

@@kellydavis4954 lol that’s a bit of a stretch ;)

@kellydavis4954

Жыл бұрын

@@chriswebbtech that's what bud light thought too

As hard as this may be to believe.. I actually know the person who is the "string pin" head honcho who has been working on getting them certified for almost a decade now. When I heard the news, I tracked him down and congratulated him. He shook my hand, smiled a wry smile, we sat down at his alley, and we talked for a bit. He is the richest man in the county, and you would never know it. He wears blue jeans and work boots his hands are calloused from work as he is constantly renovating bowling alleys across the country. Chances are you have bowled in one of his alleys, or one that he has renovated. He has done too many, including both alleys in the White House. It's his passion. He's not doing this to make money, he has money, he's doing it to save bowling for the future. Without betraying too much info, I can tell you this, there are 100,000 string pin setters ready to be installed in roughly 60% of all centers across the country and Europe will be a majority of string pins. Main reason he told me: Cost effectiveness. House Owners will benefit by less expensive machines and less techs needed for repair less downtime when repair is needed. We didn't talk much about PBA tour or USBC tournaments. So I don't know how that will work. But I do know this is going to be part of the bowling future. Just as the lanes changed, the balls changed, the oils changed, and each of those things were supposed to be the death of bowling. Synthetic lanes.. I won't bowl on anything but wood, I'll quit before that happens. Urethane was going to kill bowling..I'll quit bowling if they allow Urethane... remember? The oil will change how the ball moves, that's going to ruin bowling.. I'll quit bowling if they allow this new oil.. remember?? This won't kill bowling and eventually even the "die hards" like Big Sky Bowler will come to understand that economics basically required Houses to try and find a way to stay open. String pins are the way to do that. I don't know how it will affect bowling as a whole. Neither does he. The future hasn't happened yet. But we both seem to agree on one thing, Houses are going to close, if they can't find a more efficient way and more cost affective way. And that truly would be the death of bowling. No money, no bowling houses.

@BigSkyBowler

Жыл бұрын

Nothing hard to believe about that statement. The changes that have happened to the sport over the years have been made for the good of the entire sport, not just one small area. Introduction of new equipment such as plastic over rubber, urethane over plastic and now reactive over urethane (even though new urethane is making a comeback) was good for the entire sport as it raised scoring potential across the board for everyone and not just the elite. It made the sport more approachable by the general public. Introduction of synthetic lanes over wood was good for the entire sport because now the lanes would hold up to abuse for a much longer period before breaking down and needing to be resurfaced. Still plenty of centers that operate full wood. Introduction of more complicated oil patterns was good for the entire sport as it raised the bar on the professional scene and made it easier for league centers to establish a league pattern, removing one variable in a sport of variables. Along with that came lane machines that did their job more efficiently and effectively which was also good for the entire sport. The addition of string pin setters is good only for one area of the sport and that is the open bowling scene. Will it improve the chances of bowling making it to the Olympics? No... will it improve the competitive scene? No... in fact, it will make it worse. The USBC stated clearly that on average there was a tangle stop every 100 shots. Over a standard 3 game block that equates to 24 tangle stops. If you count by frames that's a stop every 8 frames. Now they stated that this number improved greatly when they changed the length of the strings, but they are still experiencing a tangle stop every 500 shots. That's not including stops for deadwood, balls getting stuck or breakdowns. Will it make it easier for centers to operate cheaper? Yes but they will turn into "fun" centers... where the lanes aren't oiled very often, everything is a mess and leagues/tournament play is practically non-existent. I'm all for the string setters... as long as they keep them out of the competitive scene. These days, bowling centers have to change their business model to stay relevant. People don't want to go to a place to just bowl anymore. They want to go to a place where they can bowl, eat good food, bowl, and have fun playing games. More and more of these centers are opening around the country where there is an arcade, laser tag or some other form of activity besides the bowling and from what I've seen they do quite well. What needs to happen, is someone needs to come up with a free fall machine that operates cheaper and is cheaper to maintain... try to reduce how many points of failure a machine has which will reduce its maintenance cost. I hate to say it... but I would rather see my old center close instead of going to string pins.

@JoeBrrFan

Жыл бұрын

@@BigSkyBowler Actually the USBC clearly stated the issue with tangling was fixed and now is 1 out every 526 so, about the same as an out of range pin. But you knew that, but left it out. Or you didn't do your research... you based it on old information. As of the olympics, there is no way to know if it will make it easier or harder, until it happens, in your opinion it will make it harder, in mine, it will make it easier. You say synthetic lanes were good for the entire sport. My point was not if it was good or bad. My point was that people.. people like you.. didn't want it to happen, they were afraid it would change the sport. My point with the evolution of urethane or resin or rubber over wood balls, is the same. People questioned, people like you, if it would make the game worse. Would Urethane ruin tournaments. Was it fair to competition. So you can look at these things in retrospective and say Oh these are great things.. now. But at the time there were haters. There were questions... now 30 years later we see the answers... How do I know.. because I was one of them. At 64 I've seen my share of changes in bowling and bowling alleys. the thought of synthetic lanes still bothers me. Who wants to throw on synthetic laminate..they look white and ugly, my ball doesn't roll the same, I just hate the looks of them, it's not real bowling. THIS is literally my opinion of them not just once, but every single time I see or use them. I hate them. ughh. But you are right, and we do agree about bowling centers have to change their business models. Fun centers over leagues make more profit for owners. The facts show league bowlers no longer bowl 3-4 nights per week, like they used to. The carry over effect is gone. The price of league bowlers to a center is higher now. They can make more off open play than leagues at 25-30.00 that tie up the lanes for 4 hours a night. That's money lost. As for someone needing to make free fall pin setters for less money, you are right, they had decades to do so. They didn't. But I always find it funny when people say " Someone should do it".. Why not you? Don't have the money or the time or the know how perhaps?? Well someone took the time, found the way, put up the money and designed a machine that is cheaper, and in many ways better than current pin setters. Are they perfect? Nope, but niether are the pin setters of today, which is why they are going to be replaced. People say,, oh no, my average will drop by 10 pins.. yes, it may.. but so will everyones.. At the Same Time.. It's not going to select Belmo, and skip Simo or EJ.. So if it's dropping everyone at the same time, then it is equally discriminate. Going from 210 to 200 sounds terrible.. but EVERYONE is going from 210 to 200. And once it's happened... it's happened and then people will say "Oh look. Belmo's average is 225." "Oh look EJ's average is 224".. cuz it's going to be equal. Or perhaps it's just the Pride issue... oh look my average dropped 10 pins.. then people will say.. so did ours.. get over it.. Saying you would rather see your old center close instead of going to string pins???? Really? That's about as selfish as it gets.. If you can't have standard pin setters, you want your local alleys to close. No more bowling for anyone. No more jobs for the people that work there. No more entertainment for children. For parents. For solo bowlers.. cuz the center can't afford standard pinsetters. But they can afford string pins.. but you don't like them, so close down. The world changes all the time. The bowling world changes all the time. Equipment is one of those things that change. From hiring kids to reset the pins in the back, to simple machines, to the more sophisticated machines that we have now, and now string pinsetters. Evolution of bowling is going to change. Just the way it is. I understand your frustration. I really do. I've had it. But the future is string pins in thousands of lanes across America. I appreciate you took the time to respond. Many won't. And I thank you and respect your opinions. Ours differ, but that's ok. We are allowed to have different opinions. Stay blessed, and keep posting. It's good for the game when people keep talking about it. 10 Back..

@BigSkyBowler

Жыл бұрын

First, I did mention in my original reply that when they lengthened the strings it made tangles much better at one every 500 shots. You may have missed it? Or didn't read the entire post? You have several good points and I respect your opinion. I am not opposed to change to the sport if it means growth in the sport as a whole (one of the many reasons I support the two handed style) but I just can't see it with string setters. If a small house cannot afford to upgrade their aging free fall machines without having to take out a loan to do so, I do not believe they would be able to afford making the change to string setters either... which unfortunately leaves us in the same place we are now, old centers barely able to keep their doors open and corporate centers taking over. It would be more beneficial for a small center to simply take a loan to expand their center into a family fun center instead of just a bowling alley than it would be to upgrade their free fall machines or go to string setters. The house I bowl at is a bowling alley and a bar. I don't want to see it close and neither do the 100s of kids in our youth leagues, or our league bowlers. I just don't see string setters being an option for the privately owned smaller locations. Currently, I see it as a way for corporate owned centers like bowlero, to save a buck on overhead and I know they had nothing to do with the string machines or their development. I just see it as an adverse side effect to them being certified now by the usbc.

@JoeBrrFan

Жыл бұрын

@@BigSkyBowler Thanks for getting back.. I understand it's easy to think a center can just go and get a loan, but at a minimum of 7% interest rates, it gets expensive to buy machines that are still going to have the same issues with breaking down. Buying parts, and the tech fees to repair them. String pins are much cheaper to repair. Less moving parts. Where is that money coming from? Raise in rates to leagues? Raise in rates to bowlers in general. If they are going to take a loan at today's interest rates, their dollar would be better spent on machines that break down less. I did read your post, and you are correct, I missed or it didn't sink in you had corrected yourself about the 500 rolls. However, it is still about the same as a breakdown on current machines. At least in my experience. Out of range. Balls stuck in the back. Pins falling out of the racks. Pins missing in the rack. Gate getting stuck in the down position. Pins flying out into the lane or gutters. All of these things stop play. All of them require a tech or team member to take the time to fix the issue. But a lot of those issues will be eliminated by string pin setters. There are good and bad in both styles. And yes, large corp centers will benefit the most from string pins. But I do see the small business owner looking at the cost and effectiveness of string pins, when they are looking to replace or upgrade. As for growth in the sport, just as you stated, two handers are a great example, prior to Belmo, there was only one other player using 2 hands. And now you can't go into a center without seeing half or more of the kids bowling with two hands. Change is hard. This is new. It's going to take awhile for people to get used to the idea. I'm not sure how it will affect the future, I just know it's going to be part of the future. Thanks again for sharing opinions.. 10 Back. PS: Here is a video from just three years ago by JR Raymond talking about Urathane: Should it be banned. Things change.kzread.info/dash/bejne/l4l9z6SNoqjecco.html

@PinoyBowlerGS92

9 ай бұрын

Any change in Bowling is acceptable as long as they’re the same. Wood and Synthetic Lanes are both still same flat surface with no bumps and regardless type of Bowling Balls, they’re still a perfect round sphere. But with Strings is different and Bowling Pins are not design to have something attach to them and here’s a fact: the lifespan of a Bowling Pin wears out quicker on Strings because they’re always put down the exact same spot forever unlike Free Fall Pinsetters, with 20 Pins shuffling around, any pins can last longer. As for Bowling Centers closing, that’s the problem of the management, not the manufacturer. I live in the Philippines and despite it isn’t a rich country, Bowling Centers aren’t declining and yet all of them are still running with Free Fall Pinsetters especially with the last 3 centers opened up and 3 more to come, they’re still up for Free Fall Pinsetters. And because there’s unemployment and poverty, finding mechanics is easier in developing countries like this. No surprising that Philippines is the king of shopping malls in Asia and because of that, majority of Bowling Centers are built inside of them and they even survive through the Pandemic. Heck, even if my local mall bowling center was shut down for 2 Years straight by the Pandemic, they’re still able reopen and til this day they’re still running. Its shocking when after the Pandemic, Philippines only had 2 Bowling Centers permanently shut down (due to mismanagement) compare to dozens in the West.