When you can hear significant sound improvement on KZread you know its even bigger in reality. Great job!

@steveelliott4132

9 ай бұрын

Agreed

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

I wish I had been able to make a better recording, the results are better than shown with the little mono mic. I will invest in a mixer so I can do stereo recordings with better mics hopefully in the near future.

I got free pair of Sony ss u601av 3 way towers and decided to make some improvements as well. I braced the inside and changed the tweeter with an infinity tweeter pair I had laying around. And changed the mid range . I lined the wood inside with carpet cushion mat and also use poly-fil . I didn’t use to much ploy-fil because the speakers cabinet are ported . Now I have a good looking set of vintage speakers that don’t sound bad . I was dumbstruck when I realized they sounded better than my advents and infinity Rs 4000 . One little experiment I did with the poly-fil since all the drivers are installed 1 1/2 “ on top of each other I tried using different amounts of poly material behind each driver to the ports and it made the bass sound cleaner and not interfere with the mid and highs coming out the speakers. The sound stage improved significantly .

@AudioTomReviews

Ай бұрын

If I had to choose one thing to improve a speakers sound, it would be damping. Glad your speakers turned out so nice!

This was helpful to watch. Even using the original woofer and midrange, with just the tweeter replaced, the new crossover with the filter on the woofer, there was an amazing improvement in the sound.

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@steveelliott4132

9 ай бұрын

Ageed

It's actually even bigger. Great job! Thanks for the video. I've been eyeing those crossovers for a while and think it's time to pick up a set or two. It earned you a new partner.

@AudioTomReviews

5 ай бұрын

Thanks! It's a very large improvement for such a small investment.

Thank you for the video. I have been looking at those crossovers for a while, guess it's time to grab a set or two. This one earned you a New Sub.

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

Thanks! Yeah, you can get the whole crossover for the cost of one inductor.

Great video, very interesting and incredibly informative. I really love these kinds of videos. I'm not a techie myself, I'm more of a contemplator. Thank you so much

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

I replaced my old vintage Marantz speakers that came with my 2030 receiver with modern Emotiva units and the diff was astounding.

@steveelliott4132

9 ай бұрын

Really I would like to know more like did you use the old boxes or completely replace

I always found mylar, aluminum, or any kind of hard material for the tweeter to be harsh. I opted for old school paper tweeters over those and really enjoy the warmth from a soft dome myself. Some of those can get expensive and lack clarity in the upper ranges. Just my thought.

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

I agree. The tweeter upgrade was not part of the original plan, and I feel it tainted the overall goal of the project ie: upgrade with original drivers and see the results. I had a choice of trashing these and finding a new pair of speakers or buy new (cheap) tweeters. If I had to do it over again I would pick cheap soft dome tweeters instead.

@steveelliott4132

9 ай бұрын

Thanks for the information

Interesting video! Nice to see how much of a difference that made without breaking the bank! Currently restoring some old DCM speakers and everything I’ve done so far has definitely made a difference! ✅🍿

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

Exactly, and those crossovers are a fraction of the cost of the individual components.

Excelent work!

@AudioTomReviews

Ай бұрын

Thanks!

Very very interesting, great job !

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

Thank you very much!

most of thows 80is speakers , will have only a capasitor on tweeter only expesive one had crossover , and no insulation, and most after all this time will have the rubber on the edge of cone damage and have very cheap drivers , so for a 6"' iven a 20euro driver and 5euro dome tweeter is much better than the original , add a crossover and some insulation , and you got a much better speaker ,

fun to watch was thinking the same for some old pioneers i have

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

If you still use the speakers, it's worth the $20. You can hear how the bass cleaned up, sadly I couldn't capture the improvement in clarity and detail in the video.

Listening from KZread, I don't notice an "improvement" compared to the original... The upgrade took away the bass. The treble improved logically due to the change of tweeter. The mid frequencies do sound clearer. It sounds different, but for me not necessarily better... But the important thing is that you like it!! That was the goal. Beyond tastes, very good video, very neat work and explanation!!

@AudioTomReviews

Ай бұрын

Yeah, it's really hard to capture the difference with the current equipment I have. I need to get a mixer and 2 good mic's, hard to justify right now. The bass is what really wasn't captured the way it needed to be (and the recording is in mono). The "before" bass was more prominent, but extremely low quality. Boomy, boxy hollow sound, not good. After was articulate, clean and well defined, but that made it seem like there was less. I kept the eq the same for comparison, but they would handle a bass boost much better afterwards. I am slowly upgrading my equipment warchest and hope to bring better samples in the future. Thanks for the post!

Nice video. I got an old Sharp System 8800, which remains from my passed away stepfather. But now only the rack, amplifier, phonograph and speakers remain, since the cd player and everything else didn't work anymore. The whole system was abandoned and stored in the basement, one day I took care of it, to use it again. The receiver, cd and cassette player got replaced with modern Pioneer network player, Blu-ray player and amplifier. Next step was to take care of the speakers, as the mid range drivers were in very bad condition and the one on the right didn't even make a sound anymore. I bought two new Monacor mid range drivers and put them in, but the one on the right speaker still didn't make a sound. ☹ So I opened the speakers and found the crossovers, which were actually real 3-way crossovers. Since I wasn't sure what actually was wrong, I replaced both crossovers with Monacor DN-200, which aren't very cheap, but the Monacor drivers weren't cheap as well. There already was some poly-fill inside the speakers, which I reused, since it was fine. This modification took place in 2017, the original tweeters and double woofers still remain and are in very good shape and the speakers still sound amazing, my neighbors know that too. 😄

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

It's funny how some of these old component system woofers held up and you see an old pair of JBL's and they are crumbling to dust!

Amazing video! Thanks for posting I actually retro fitted some 80s Pioneer 2-way speakers with Monitor Audio drivers and tweeters and added dampening, and they sound incredible. Didn't do any A/Bing unfortunately. I reckon the reason you couldn't get stereo recording through Audacity is because the mic is a mono source

@AudioTomReviews

10 ай бұрын

I have a splitter that I use on my PC for L/R that works fine, but on my laptop only one channel would work. I think it's hardwired for mic/headset so setting it to "mic" only didn't matter. Yeah, just like my car stereo, the drivers make the biggest difference, but big investment. My goal was big improvement for few dollars. Thanks

@steveelliott4132

9 ай бұрын

That was my thoughts and through it all it steal was an amazing improvement

The biggest improvement in sound seems to come from the choke in series with the bass speaker. The speaker has a reflex port that appears to have been designed in the shape of a horn loudspeaker to impress laymen. The bass speaker has a very small magnet. This makes it unsuitable for a bass reflex speaker. You should close the reflex port. To get rid of the still extreme peak at 6000 Hz, try reversing the polarity of the tweeter in relation to the midrange driver and / or leave out one of the two 1 microfarad capacitors in the tweeter branch.

this was fascinating and a wonderful example of upgrading, i may yet try this with my ancient Pioneers. Less so was your choice of test music, especially that 80s crap at the end

@AudioTomReviews

10 ай бұрын

I was actually trying to avoid being flagged by KZread for copyright. My next video I am going to try some more mainstream clips as I read they will allow anything under 15 seconds long.

@anthonypetercoleman3575

10 ай бұрын

I was just bustin ya, understood. @@AudioTomReviews

@AudioTomReviews

10 ай бұрын

🤣Bring it on, I can take it!@@anthonypetercoleman3575

Hey man great idea I remember these speakers in the 80s and all of those stores made like that had that boxy sound I prefer the true coronet systems from the 70s by far but believe it or not although bit hard I could tell a fairly considerate improvement on my rather cheap phone and that impressed me quite a bit I can't believe you were able to number one improve the sound coming from those woofers or number two find some or have some woofers that still had the rubber foam around them I know that in 1984 the only system I was able to find for around 1100.00 that wasn't completely boxy was JVC. And I listened to Sony witch by the way were the worse and tecniecs and pioneer all of the brands anything under that price was terrible and in Longview,TX there was nothing else the JVC was far better but still came no where near the sound of the 70s stuff in all brands so you paid way more and got way less in the 80s most of these 80s so called component systems were not even separate able in anyway and basically junk k not gonna say more please forgive spelling and the fact this cheap phone thinks it knows more than I

@stephenyoud6125

8 ай бұрын

Except he did it all wrong. That frequency response is abysmal. Check out the GR-Research channel for proper speaker upgrades.

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

As a teen I worked at Sam Goody in the 80's, they went from nice equipment to junk dealer in a matter of 5 years.

Pretty sure KZread won't get upset . I've never heard that music before. The bands are probably happy you are using. I might have been tempted to convert to a 2 way..

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

It looks like they allow any clips under 15 seconds, so in the future i will use a mix of more popular music.

@chuckmaddison2924

8 ай бұрын

@AudioTomReviews Many thanks I didn't know that. Maybe I put my record players on now.

i did the same, with the same crossovers for some old 3 way speakers i have ps: my speakers are sony ss-a309. same crossovers you have... now you are making me wanting to try reverse the midrange too....

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

Go by what your ears tell you on that. Reverse, listen to some of you favorite music and switch back. Measurements never tell the whole story.

Easier to upgrade whole system than aĺl that. If I kept my old technics it would be nostalgic but most are not into the techical side of components. I just hinted to the wife about upgrading & she had new B&W speakers & Marantz cd delivered within 2 days cause she loves me.

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

A lot of people still have have and use these speakers (those surrounds held up better than JBL's!). I didn't have the sentimental attachment, so I gave them away shortly after the project was done.

Thanks for the honest take on what many systems were like in the 80's. The looks were impressive; the sound not so much. Most everything sold as a complete system at a reasonable price was that way. I had a couple of friends who bought such systems. They were probably better than anything they had owned...I'd heard much better and wasn't impressed. The sound was, as you say, "lifeless." What was really funny is how they ragged on me for buying Harman Kardon components, saying "who ever heard of Harman Kardon." :-) They obviously didn't, because they knew nothing about hifi nor even decent sound, judging by their choice of systems AND how proud they were of such dead and unbalanced sound. Good times.

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

Harmon was real nice stuff, at least back then. Not too sure on them now.

I have a few sets of those. I like the og tweeters even if they are quite directional

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

I really didn't like those mylar tweeters i bought. I should have spent a few more dollars and bought soft dome, not as harsh.

Youre yellow Vynil is German Schlager music. Have to say, that with the upgraded speakers, you can understand the Lyrics much better.

@AudioTomReviews

10 ай бұрын

We had similar albums here 60's into 70's. They were covers of current hits by non credited studio performers. They were typically (or always) pretty bad.

Another thing you can do is isolate the tweeter by boxing them in or just box in the main sub driver with a piece of scrap wood cut to size then use acoustic padding on the inside walls then pillow wool, makes a massive difference in bass

@AudioTomReviews

10 ай бұрын

Anything that helps is good, so long as you're not investing more than they are worth LOL!

@johnnytacokleinschmidt515

9 ай бұрын

Mids and tweeters are closed back so I'm not sure I follow you.

Even sitting here without headphones, I can hear a difference. The bass in much tighter and clear. I can hear less of a difference in the mid and upper range, but that's due to my setup and older ears :).

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

I couldn't capture the sound that well with my current equipment, but the upper frequencies had much better clarity and detail.

Ha-ha, German Schlager Music, that’s a whole genre with many deep rabbit holes, and extremely hard to explain to anyone who does not live , or lived in Germany, which I do now…

Good video for easy upgrades. I think a notch filter on the mid would've been a cheap but effective upgrade and possibly add some cross bracing in the cabinet along with what you did. I also would have upgraded the slope on the tweeter. Building a notch filter and cross bracing are cheap. I have been building my own speakers a long time now, comparing them. Building cabinets and making them look presentable is what requires the most effort. If it wasn't a budget build (I can't control my spending) I would have swapped all of the drivers too.

@stephenmcbride6359

9 ай бұрын

As a fellow builder I agree on all points,especially the crossbracing. The package speakers from the 80s/90s were known foor their thin boxes,hence boomy sound.

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

@76S30 , @stephenmcbride6359, I conciderd all of the above, bur in the end decided against it. #1 the speakers aren't worth it, those drivers will only sound so good & you don't want to put more time or money into them than they are worth. #2 This video was originally twice as long (!) until I edited a lot of it down & simplified it. I currently have other speaker mod videos planned, first a first order mod, then moving into more advanced. Stay tuned!

@stephenmcbride6359

9 ай бұрын

@@AudioTomReviews I totally agree with you. I never would have used those stinking drivers. But if you have no money, you do what you can to improve what you have.

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

@@stephenmcbride6359 Yep, that's the whole point of the video, but don't overdo it! I focused on the most return on investment. I just put new plugs and wires in my 2005 Dodge Caravan and it runs great, I could have put Ferrari injectors & a high end exhaust system in it and seen just a little bit better performance, LOL!

@stephenmcbride6359

9 ай бұрын

@@AudioTomReviews I just finished rebuilding a set with drivers and crossovers it cost about $125 to $130 total. That's Canadian dollars. They gave me new tweeters midranges whippers-in crossovers prove AliExpress. It also gave me a set of 350 watt speakers with 12in drivers that pounded. So precious little money, but a great return. And I apologize for insulting the drivers

Nice work! Thanks for sharing! I'm about to restore a pair of Acoustic Research AR-4x. I would like to get rid of the fiberglass and use poly fill but, as it is a sealed box (acoustic suspension), I don't know how much poly fill to use. Same mass? Same surface area? Would it change the sound?

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

Here is a guy who restored a pair (some things I would do differently) kzread.info/dash/bejne/nnuEmLKFfMeWY7g.htmlsi=yXzlZ0CFvbwnC2oM Those speakers are really packed with damping and polyfill is not nearly as dense so you would go well beyond the typical 1lb per cuft. Foam damping like this is nice but may change the character of the speaker. www.parts-express.com/Sonic-Barrier-1-1-4-3-Layer-Damping-Material-w-PSA-18-x-24-260-535?quantity=1

If the tweeters had a protection circuit and they were blown when you go them I guess it didn't work for one reason or other.

@paulbennell3313

9 ай бұрын

Either that or it worked and the tweeters are actually ok but they weren't getting a signal because of the protection.

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

They were dead, testing wide open on the meter. Apparently not many of those tweeters survived, I should have opened one up to see if it was blown or simply deteriorated.

@johnnytacokleinschmidt515

9 ай бұрын

Many of the little cone tweeters die from amplifier clipping and LP record clicks and pops. They're very delicate.

Mine are from 1976 Kenwood kl888 and they are working Excellent maybe 🤔 Because the Pledge furniture polish 😂

@AudioTomReviews

2 ай бұрын

I'll post a video with audio samples "With Lemon Pledge......Without Lemon Pledge"

@CharlesDowiot-qv7pp

2 ай бұрын

@AudioTomReviews pledge furniture provides a condition spray light on clean cloth around the outside of speaker provides protection from wear works best on rubber surround and nylon also good for aluminum woofers and polypropylene

But you actually picked up some of the better "Cheap" quality speakers here compared to the majority!!!

@AudioTomReviews

10 ай бұрын

The first track and last track I feel you can hear the difference in clarity. First track you can hear there is a harmonica and guitar. I tried to pick tracks that wouldn't get flagged, once the "before" was recorded I was stuck with them regardless of how it worked out.

Ive put together separarate componets system from Old & new H.K. componets (except speakers).That ive slowly modified an have upgraded over the years aside .Aside from a H.K. tape deck that I have yet to track down actually working Properly..I have a complete system from H.K..The speakers im using are bookshelf speakers from Boston Acoustics c11! & Klipsch..I have found removing foam from the Inside of the Boston Acoustic improved the midrange & imageing Dramaticly ...I currenly own 6 pairs of speakers......Have you tried any of the Upgrades From G.R. research.?.Thanks!

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

I have watched a few of his vids and was considering trying one on my RP160M's

@davidmorgen4558

9 ай бұрын

Let me know,Thanks!@@AudioTomReviews

Excellent video - thanks! None of the Amazon or Ali links in the description are working for me (going to dead/404 pages). Do you have any additional crossover and tweeter recommendations?

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

I bought from Aliexpress, they ship faster than ebay & cheaper. Try this one: www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832575404070.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.2df738866NDPNJ&algo_pvid=cfddff98-830d-4a45-9395-04523a125705&algo_exp_id=cfddff98-830d-4a45-9395-04523a125705-0&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%2114.91%2111.93%21%21%2114.91%21%21%402101d64d16957737670975529e9542%2162063770513%21sea%21US%214014427724%21&curPageLogUid=SW0UeeMqwT9f

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

Tweeters: www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803606282789.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allProduct.8148356.12.54e06cfbdA6dMu&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21USD%21US%20%2412.45%21US%20%249.96%21%21%21%21%21%402101e9a216957738785708182e95b7%2112000027182000086%21sh%21US%214014427724&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

If I had to do it over again I wild likely get these for a more natural sounding high end: www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832388268789.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allProduct.8148356.4.54e06cfboQigNb&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21USD%21US%20%2416.88%21US%20%2413.50%21%21%21%21%21%40210321c316957739386876007e91de%2112000027391296414%21sh%21US%214014427724&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Testing frequency response in a room you're going to get boundary reinforcement at low frequencies (below 400hz). in the midrange you're hearing room nodes more than the speaker itself! Best to test these on a stand in the backyard on a wind-less day.

Apparently instead of matching the size of the box to the *drivers* , they matched it to the size of the *stack of components* (2:07)!

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

HAHAHA!! I think you're right!!!

@dhpbear2

9 ай бұрын

@@AudioTomReviews Thanks. The thin sheet-metal used in the speaker frames just screams 'CHEAP!'! No wonder they got covered over by those 'cast-iron' surrounds!

Find a way to get rid of the two massive peaks at the top and bottom and it would be okay. Would a resistor of the right value help in each case?

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

I recently figured out that the low frequency peak was a phantom caused by me creating an incorrect sound card calibration file. The high frequency peak can be brought down with what is called an L-pad, basically 2 resistors. I originally discussed that in the video, but in order to shorten the video I edited that out. I figured if you had the original paper tweeters it likely wouldn't be a problem. Here is an L-pad calculator: www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-Lpad.htm

I see that you have some experience with speaker modifications and it really shows but I have an issue with your ready made crossover. The inductor on the woofer circuit is only 0.38 millihenry, the same as the bandpass circuit for the midrange driver. It should be between 0.8mH and 1.6 mH depending on the impedence and frequency cutting point you want to achieve. Also, the tweeter should use a higher value for the resistor because the response peaked a bit much in the 6 to 10 kHz region. Enough damping effectively kill most of the unwanted box resonances. This is a great video!

@johnnytacokleinschmidt515

9 ай бұрын

I thought the values were a bit odd. Possibly he didn't see them correctly.

@yvesboutin5604

9 ай бұрын

That is a possibility, but on the image, both inductors are the same size so they should be of the same value. That is why I make my own crossovers and I test and listen to them to make sure the sound is balanced. Bye!@@johnnytacokleinschmidt515

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

On the cheap crossovers, you get what you get, but you can't beat the price. It was all about compromise since those speakers don't justify investing $$$'s. I made all measurements with my LCR meter, so they are accurate. I was going to go into changing that resistor to a higher value, but: 1. that would change the impedence value/crossover point, 2. I wanted to keep it simple so anyone could do it (no L-Pad tutorial) 3. The video was already getting too damn long! There was a lot that ended up on the cutting room floor, I will save that for better speakers in the future. Cheap and simple for this one!

My Dad had a pair of SB-2844's and they didn't really survive. The wiring inside is starting to fail and the tweeters cut out sometimes. the midrange drivers are totally destroyed. The cones desintigrated and the spider cracked. The woofers are super loose and have a fs of like 30hz. One of them has a cracked spider and sometimes makes a very slight clicking sound but otherwise the woofers are good. I did repair a small rip in the foam surround years ago with some silicone. Maybe I should swap out the drivers and fix them up. They did sound pretty good back in the day but now they are in bad shape.

@AudioTomReviews

10 ай бұрын

Not worth it IMHO, those are too far gone. You would be better off investing that money towards a better pair of speakers.If you have a pair in good shape, investing $20 will give you a dramatic improvement in sound, any improvements above that may have a low cost/benefit ratio.

Now I know why these speakers sounded so muddy. Big woofers don't reproduce the mids and highs very well and the woofers are run wide open.

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

Yeah, and opens the door to phase cancellation. A big one was no damping. The sound inside the cabinet was just bouncing around and reflecting out of the front of that thin paper cone. Damping plus rolling off the frequencies more prone to reflection did an amazing job of cleaning up the sound.

@johnnytacokleinschmidt515

9 ай бұрын

Damping is number one in improvement. The woofer will show a dramatic increase in impedance as the frequency octaves increase so in a way it takes itself out of circuit , but above where it should be ideally. However, it has been my experience that the bass sounds tighter with a low pass filter. Also crossover points can be moved away from each other particularly mid and tweeter to improve flatness or smoothness of frequency response curve. Correcting your microphone calibration (as you mentioned in another comment) and measuring outside hopefully on a quiet day or moment and at minimal volume facing away from reflective surfaces will really help your speaker response measurement data.

I really want to try these upgrades but the links aren’t working for me. Can you send a new link for the crossover

@AudioTomReviews

6 ай бұрын

That's the problem with ali express ( and sometimes amazon), the links keep changing. xover: www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832575404070.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.29f43886FwlxP5&algo_pvid=38b11613-5552-44e3-b9d6-ef569a242d55&algo_exp_id=38b11613-5552-44e3-b9d6-ef569a242d55-0&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%2115.12%2111.04%21%21%2115.12%21%21%402101f49717029375894886558ee936%2162063770513%21sea%21US%214014427724%21&curPageLogUid=zJ3xUt9L66AQ Tweeters: www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803606282789.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allProduct.8148356.10.54e02525yMuGUw&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%21US%20%2412.45%21US%20%244.34%21%21%2112.45%214.34%21%402101efeb17029377209306423e7766%2112000027182000086%21sh%21US%214014427724%21&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

@conorellis5606

6 ай бұрын

Thank you so much ! Not to be a pain but I have one more question, would the crossover work with a pair of JVC SP-95?

@AudioTomReviews

6 ай бұрын

They should work great. My brother just did this same upgrade on a pair of 1980's Hitachi speakers that are similar to those JVC. I heard them last night and was completely floored, very open and natural sounding with a excellent soundstage. I did a frequency response measurement and they were damn near flat. They turned out way better than the Technics.

@conorellis5606

6 ай бұрын

You’re a legend bro thank you

@AudioTomReviews

6 ай бұрын

@@conorellis5606 Let me know how it turns out!

Not trying to throw shade here, but those were some of the worst quality speakers even when they were new. Even the more budget-minded Yamaha speakers from that era were heads and tails above anything coming from Technics. You also have to consider not just frequency response for replacement drivers, but efficiency, resistance, how they interact with the crossover and how they interact with the other drivers and the volume of the enclosure. I think that you'd be better served to build your own from scratch.

@AudioTomReviews

10 ай бұрын

I think you missed the point. The idea is if you have them and just can't part with them, can you turn them into something reasonably listenable at a budget of $20. (I ended up going over) They are terrible, not worth investing more than $20 IMHO, but if you did what are the results? Not bad and if you do the same to a pair of Yamaha, even better. Yes, it is MUCH better to design and build from scratch, but that would also be hundreds of dollars. This is simply a "Lipstick on a pig" video.

I thought crossover elements values must be calculated according to each speaker impedance. You can't just buy first ready-to-use crossover you found, it would simply work incorrect. There are a lot of online crossover calculators which are precise enough to give more than good result. Or you can calculate values by formulas, it's not that difficult. P.S.: I prefer test speakers' overall sound quality with death-metal bands like Morbid Angel, Rivers of nihil etc. because of dense complicated mix. If your speakers can play heavy music good, they would play everything good.

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

The speakers are all 8 ohm and the xover values matched for 8 ohm. Purchasing individual xover components, even the lowest quality, far exceeded the speakers worth. This premade one was a good compromise and an easy install for anyone watching this video regardless of skill set. I was actually surprised how close all the values of the new xover were to the original.

whats the source of that 6khz honk?

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

The low frequency hump was actually a mistake in REW on my part, the 6k may have been the junk tweeters I bought. I should have got soft dome. If the original tweeters had survived, that peak may not have been there. Since they were not original tweeters I decided not to delve into correcting it since it would only be specific to this speaker. Plus the video was already too long.

You know it

What is the first song playing?

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

At the very start of the video (0:00) ? That is a sound clip that came with my video editing software.

@pemahe

9 ай бұрын

@@AudioTomReviews Sorry, the one starting at 0:45

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

@@pemahe Ah, forgot that was there. That is also a generic sound clip that came with PowerDirector, if you listen it loops.

The links are broken and I could not locate the parts.

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

Thats the problem with Amazon & Aliexpress, the listings come and go. Both xover & tweeters came from this store: www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832575404070.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.3bae3886nyK9zM&algo_pvid=3a2bbe10-0130-4ca8-85df-61fca2943447&algo_exp_id=3a2bbe10-0130-4ca8-85df-61fca2943447-0&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%2114.91%2111.93%21%21%2114.91%21%21%402101c5a716961701226531903eef27%2162063770513%21sea%21US%214014427724%21&curPageLogUid=6TpWEsSmF7bW

Some advice ... use music that people know for testing .

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

The idea was to avoid getting flagged by youtube for copywrite. Apparently they will let anything slide if it's under 15 seconds, so you will hear more familiar material on my next project.

Hopefully the age of bad foam and rubber stuff has passed. I worked in a lighting retailer in the 1990s and the acoustic foam was used for packing everything BUT as time went on it disintegrated in to gray dust. Like the old foam rings n woofers. Another caveat.

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

I was surprised that the surrounds were perfect, on JBL's the surrounds would be a distant memory.

@RWL2012

9 ай бұрын

Where Technics didn't use cloth, they used a foam-rubber mix.

You might put a resistor in series with the tweeter to tame that ferocious peak.

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

I originally had an L-pad part in the video, but it was cut along with other things to bring the video down to 20min and different tweeters would be attenuated differently if al all. I did put an L-pad calculator in the description above.

@janinapalmer8368

9 ай бұрын

No.... that won't help ... you need a notch filter tuned to the peak frequency....use a capacitor inductor and a resistor connected in parallel and placed in series with the + terminal of the tweeter

Good Video! But i think you should have spent a couple bucks more on the tweeters. These chinese mylars sound bad. I have a pair myself that meassure awful. Is there a reason why you didn't made a crossover yourself? I think the improvement would have been bigger with a selfmade one with better fitting values.

@AudioTomReviews

4 ай бұрын

Agreed on the tweeters, some soft domes would have worked out better and not cost much more. Building my own crossovers would have cost considerably more and these speakers simply are not worth it. The concept was "Can you upgrade your worthless sentimental value speakers for under $20"? Once I get more test equipment I will be delving into some custom crossovers etc on some better speakers I have.

Another option is carpet pad

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

Wow, good idea!

@BostonMike68

8 ай бұрын

@AudioTomReviews it's cheap and I always have some around from jobs I even went to a carpet store and they had brand new pieces in the dumpster

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

@@BostonMike68 Sounds like it's time to do a little dumpster diving!

@BostonMike68

8 ай бұрын

@AudioTomReviews hey whatever it takes all my speakers are made from pieces of mdf here and there and I cover them with hardwood flooring that was left over from jobs . I even made one pair from a hard maple cabinet I got of the side of the road and if you saw them they are furniture quality you would never know

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

@@BostonMike68 That sounds awesome! (KZread should let people post pictures in the comments) My brother did the same thing to a pair of old Hitachi speakers except it was extra natural wood laminate from a vintage radio restoration he did. He peeled the old vinyl off, glued the laminate on & varnished it. They look amazing. He also did this same mod to them and they turned out better than these technics. He was blown away by the clarity and detail.

"200 watts". Hahahahahah! Sorry, I couldn't help it. If those cheap 80's speakers were fed 200W they would go up in smoke. I'm not saying all 80's speakers were junk, but the speakers that came with component systems were very low quality.

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

Yeah, you noticed that too. They were slightly generous with their wattage rating.

@dhpbear2

9 ай бұрын

@@AudioTomReviews Probably 'peak-music-power' (RMS rating * 8 )

no on that crossover dont do it. your better off just replacing the capacitors and bypassing the circuit breaker in the original circuit.

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

Agreed, but I tried to stay focused on "cheap & simple". I found myself trying different mods etc and had to stop myself. These speakers are not worth investing time or money into. For $20 and 2 hours you get a good return on your investment, beyond that, no.

That 6 khz peak is very bad bro, any peak or dip more than 1.5 db makes sound colored

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

I think I am so used to it from my Klipsch Reference Premier speakers. I edited an L-pad section out of the video to shorten & simplify. Realistically I feel if the stock paper tweeters were there it wouldn't have been as bad as they were far less efficient.

@ThresholdZhor

9 ай бұрын

@@AudioTomReviews that 6 khz peak can be solved lowering the midrange cut off frequency by 1 khz by changing the midrange inductor value and also increasing the tweeter crossover point by 1 khz

Premade crossovers are just a waste of money.

@BostonMike68

9 ай бұрын

Putting any money into that thing is a waste of money.

Dude, you did it all wrong. You didn’t show or say how you did the REW measurement. It should be done at 1 meter on tweeter axis with a 1 Watt input. ( I put a voltmeter across the speaker plugs while playing pink noise from the REW generator and adjust the amp volume till the voltmeter shows around 2.83 V. It jumps around a bit because of the Pink noise so maybe a constant 1 kHz tone would be better) . (This gives you 1W at 1m - Industry standard. And then apply a gated time window to exclude room reflections. Use the impulse tab and then apply the cutoffs with the IR Windows button. Depending on how far away you are from nearest walls and ceiling you should be able to apply a time of around 4ms. But if you can get far enough away from walls and have a high ceiling, and put the speaker up on a stand, you might manage more and this determines how low the Frequency response can be measured. For designing crossovers in XSim you need the individual frequency responses and Impedance responses of all 3 drivers individually in the cabinet - probably each measured on axis (not sure). There’s videos on this by 123Toids and by Audio Judgement where I learnt it. Next you cannot just buy a stock crossover off the internet and expect it to work. The crossover needs to be design for the drivers in the cabinet. See the videos by Danny Richie on GR-Research. Next. You miss an opportunity to improve the crossover and sound by not using better quality parts: Air cored inductors, decent Polypropylene caps ( even if u only used Dayton Audio caps from Parts Express), and wire wound resistors. Finally that cabinet would be a buzz box and would need extra bracing gluing in and panel damping applied, such as Automotive anti drumming panels, or Floor tiles and then the open cell foam and finally the Poly Fil - again see Danny Richies videos on this. He sells a combi product called No-Rez that combines the panel damper and open cell foam into one easy to apply product. Even just adding bracing damping and replicating the original crossover design with better quality parts in a point to point wiring config would have been a big improvement. As the measured frequency responses were still really poor - but that could just be an in room response if you didn’t didnt measure at 1W at 1m. A decent response should be flat and with none of those peaks. Also to check for proper driver summation at the crossover points, you reverse the polarity and measure again and you should see a deep hole in the response./. But you can only do this if measuring at 1W at 1m and use the gated time window.

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

Dude.....these are cheap ass speakers getting a pre made pair of $10 crossovers. What you are talking applies to good speakers. The point is can you make cheap ass speakers sound better for $20. It is not a lesson in REW. I mentioned there is no relation between XSIM and the final response, it was just to graphically show the crossover itself. No-REZ????? ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS???? One panel of that will cost more than these speakers are worth!!!! I don't have a DAS V3 (yet), but it doesn't matter because I'm not building a custom xover. The point is, can you make some cheap ass speakers sound better by investing less than $20. The answer is absolutely YES. They sound dramatically better in both clarity and a cleaner bass response. You have an in depth knowledge of speaker design, that's great. This video is for someone who wants to make their old speakers sound better while spending as little time and money as possible.

@onesikm3

3 ай бұрын

@@AudioTomReviewssome people just don’t get it but I appreciate the video Tom. You can’t make everyone happy and there will always be someone who’s going to say their house is bigger and they have cars that fly and travel thru time lol

@AudioTomReviews

Ай бұрын

I just read my reply, OUCH!, must have caught me on a bad day! So many people missed the point, Thanks for your support!

U shud have just rolled the tweeters off with a single cap each and no crossover for the midrange and bass. And possibly rewired the speakers.. U shud removed the wadding inside the speakers.. They may have sounded better.... People automatically assume wadding is better.. It may b... The speaker may not worth the effort

@johnnytacokleinschmidt515

9 ай бұрын

Really?!

@AudioTomReviews

8 ай бұрын

The damping dramatically improved the sound quality. No crossover for the mid and bass???? Not even Fisher speakers would do the mid without some protection. It could make for a nice little light show though.

These are cheap rack system speakers. I've owned these particular speakers, as well as a host of other various Technics rack speakers (i.e SB-10, SB-28) and they all suck. I hate everything about them,. From the cheap laminate particle board to the anemic driver magnets. They are simply turds no matter how hard you try to polish them. Not worth the time from my experience, and that's just my opinion, With reference to the sound ciips, the upgraded sound clips definitely sounded shrill and ear fatiguing through my hifi system compared to the stock samples (not that they are anything to rave about). I hold the same opinion in regards to other cheap rack speakers from the '80's and '90's the likes of Sony, Pioneer, JVC, and Kenwoods. Btw, Polyfil also comes in a blanket type option, much easy to work with and holds up better than that loose pillow stuffing mess.

I knew a guy that went broke to buy one of these crap systems, he thought he had a really high end audiophile system, I had a hard time not nitpicking the crap system to death. Peeps think that if it looks cool it is hi-end... he is a music listener , audiophiles don't buy package deal pricepoint crap...just saying...

@AudioTomReviews

5 ай бұрын

I remember some of the most absolutely ridiculous boom boxes back in the 80's, made strictly for show.

Just to let you know it's pronounced tech-niks not tech-neeks like you said in the video.

@AudioTomReviews

10 ай бұрын

Not in Philadelphia it isn't!

@7Little701

9 ай бұрын

I've heard plenty of people go both ways on that. I hated Nissan for years thinking they bought out Datsun. Came to find out they were always Nissans. They didn't think the name would market well in USA so they rebranded. I think Technics is similar so how do Japanese pronounce a name created just to sell to us is a hard question to quantify. I guess we could ask them.

@UK_Lemons

9 ай бұрын

I used to think the same but I have heard a few Technics TV adverts and they have all pronounced it neeks not nix. I still say nix. Datsun was a Japanese automobile manufacturer brand owned by Nissan. Datsun's original production run began in 1931. From 1958 to 1986, only exported Nissan cars were identified as Datsun.

@ENGLISHISBEST

9 ай бұрын

Tech nics no e in nics

Still hate em

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

(I gave them away LOL!)

@ronehill

9 ай бұрын

I struggle to hear the difference. I have a nice 5.1 set up, and the before and after really didn't sound any different... Just sounded very mid-range

Yikes! That's a 2-note speaker: 40Hz and 6kHz. Garbage it.

@AudioTomReviews

9 ай бұрын

It turns out the 40Hz was a phantom due to the calibration file REW generated. The 6kHz was real, but remember they were replacement tweeters, more efficient than the originals. My assumption is most people won't be replacing the tweeters.