relevant about gambeson: Champs with full defense upgrades used to take 2 damage from Skirms with full upgrades and now only take 1. HUGE change

@user-uh7cb3vy4v

Жыл бұрын

i wonder how many longswords are going to be needed now to take out a tc, maybe siege tower longswords drop with slavs could be really strong now.

@fredflintstone556

Жыл бұрын

Nice. Now they'll fill their role as anti-trash units even better.

@ArawnOfAnnwn

Жыл бұрын

@@fredflintstone556 Also makes them tankier against Persian trashbows. So Persians actually indirectly got nerfed. xD

@daarom3472

Жыл бұрын

I'm mostly afraid of Slavs with these changes. They were already very strong.

@edwardblom2661

Жыл бұрын

@@daarom3472 Slavs were sheit.

Notice how old Royal Heirs and old Berskergang are being incorporated into the costs of the Elite Units, it is surprising that the Persians didn't receive the same treatment as their Elite War Elephants are still very expensive to tech into.

@matthewcarroll2533

Жыл бұрын

Was thinking the same exact thing - man they must not like the Persians, lol. Poor bastards seemed to always miss on something helpful/new.

@TheBikeOnTheMoon

Жыл бұрын

I hope that they are trying to see how this new patch affects the eta before touching Persian and melee Elephant units as a whole.

@jefffinkbonner9551

Жыл бұрын

Maybe if they get Mahouts for free, they can get Boiling Oil back again 😅

@Davtwan

Жыл бұрын

Even more so when you consider the discount to Elite Elephant Archers.

@michaelmccarty1327

Жыл бұрын

Persians might be the next civ to schism.

everytime i hear "Hey guys, Spirit Of The Law here" i am immediately whisked away into a world of pikemen, skirmishers, and mangonels and all of my current worries evaporate. Thank you for continuing to make content for this game

@rondeezy_thepancakeslayer1242

Жыл бұрын

I would also like to extent my thanks to SoTL and all of the AOE2 content creators for keeping a wonderful game from my formative years such a timeless piece of art and respite

@edwardblom2661

Жыл бұрын

Now back to the worries you go

@davidgretzscheldailyreview6459

Жыл бұрын

Whisked away into a world of entirely different worries 11

@marktaro

Жыл бұрын

@@davidgretzscheldailyreview6459 26

AoE2 as a game is entering the Imperial Age of its life cycle. Buckle up!

@Dawnrim

Жыл бұрын

Let’s hope that life cycle is a Rubenstock v Andre game

@andyw5962

Жыл бұрын

So we’re about to get trebed

@nicholase2868

Жыл бұрын

So castles are about to get nerfed to the ground!

@bluesight_

Жыл бұрын

I think it's a reckless amount of change all at once.

@fighting_bones

Жыл бұрын

​@@bluesight_ its definitely dangerous

I really like the Donjon changes - it helps the Sicilians feels really unique with a Donjon based strategy, instead of it only being useful for a borderline tower rush scenario. This is starting to feel like it could legitimately defend a forward position and give options vs different enemy attackers.

@DarkMSG

Жыл бұрын

everytime they nerf sicilians they buff donjons and serjeants and people dont realise that now they are very strong for donjon rush

@BrentZahradnik

Жыл бұрын

I love Sicilians happy to see these changes

@08vinster

Жыл бұрын

They " don't realise" because serjeants are still incredibly food heavy at a stage when food is the most valuable Res. Donjon rushing has always been a noob trap. If you lose to it it's because you're worse than your opponent and or need to L2P. Maybe with the latest changes it's more viable. But definitely not before.

@minikawildflower

Жыл бұрын

@@08vinster I do think the changes help but yeah, I’m thinking less donjon rush and more when you want to go forward, maybe a donjon makes more sense now instead of stable being the only real option.

@DarkMSG

Жыл бұрын

@@08vinster how is it a noob trap if am beating 1500+ elo players?

For those wondering, Spirit's earlier video on the Magyars (released just hours before this one - damn, he can't catch a break!) is still accurate. Magyars weren't changed in this patch. They don't get Gambesons either. Also the new Celtic Strongholds effect STACKS with multiple castles.

@samarthnagar3856

Жыл бұрын

This just prooves that he is actually the CEO of aoe2

@jefffinkbonner9551

Жыл бұрын

Celts are just gonna be the field hospital for the team now

@blacklight4720

Жыл бұрын

​@@jefffinkbonner9551 lol

@ArawnOfAnnwn

Жыл бұрын

@@jefffinkbonner9551 The stacking effect may be unintended, but even if it isn't it's not THAT crazy unless you have like 4 or 5 castles all in the same spot. You usually don't see more than 2 castles next to each other, at which point you're getting just 1 hp/s regen (or 60hp/min), which isn't all that fast. Keep in mind that Celts already had Herbal Medicine, so you could always have just garrisoned your infantry in the castle to get an even faster healing. All this does is provide some regen when outside.

@jurgnobs1308

Жыл бұрын

​@@ArawnOfAnnwnit helps in battles under the castle i guess

I like how Bogsveigr were a Norse unique unit in AOM, used as a long range Sniper and Anti-titan machine

@annaairahala9462

Жыл бұрын

Teasing the new AoM coming up

@ssssdsdddbb

Жыл бұрын

@@annaairahala9462 is there any concrete update/announcement on that? I've always been more of an AoE2 player myself, but I love them all, and I had kind of lost hope on that one ever coming up since all the DEs came up and AoM was left to die alone.

@annaairahala9462

Жыл бұрын

@@ssssdsdddbb Yes! AoM Retold was announced back in October. We don't know what this entails, could be like the definitive editions of aoe, or it could be an entire new game

@ssssdsdddbb

Жыл бұрын

@@annaairahala9462 nice, I'll keep an eye on that

@nemou4985

Жыл бұрын

@@annaairahala9462 It's been confirmed to be a remake on AOE3 engine

Big fan of that Ethiopian team bonus. Outposts and the vision they grant are really criminally underrated, and it might even give players a good excuse to send more early forward vills in general, which would also be nice.

@rickychardzz

Жыл бұрын

With byzantine ally it’s op

@gabrielefarina9517

Жыл бұрын

Agree, the stone cost prevent a lot the use of them, now with an ethiopian ally there will be outposts everywhere, especially in open maps

I wonder what was the line of thinking behind reworking so many unique unit-only affecting unique techs...and then looking at Persians and going "You know what they need? +1 Pierce Armor for their un-upgradable Long Swordsmen"?

@ArawnOfAnnwn

Жыл бұрын

Longsword TC rushes are pretty effective on Sudden Death at least. Niche, but still. Anyway this was clearly an infantry focused patch, not an elephant patch.

@JAKEATO

Жыл бұрын

Fear the Pikeman and the Halb , I belive the Persian Starter pack was counter the archers with Bonus, Trash bows to Deal with the pikes(dont forget the weird bonus of Heavy C Archer ) , have gunpower Units and good eco bonus.

@MadnessTW

Жыл бұрын

Definitely strange. I suspect they're yet undecided or have something in the works. They're covering a lot of ground here, but the focus in this patch seems to have been infantry.

@jonpaulcer3128

Жыл бұрын

I think Persians should get bracer Trashbows become really bad in imp even worse against infantry now

@martijnv9573

Жыл бұрын

Everyone knows that Persians should always use the Persian douche strat. you won't even get to longswords.

I love the Incas, I loved them for their history and their culture since I am from Peru, the country where this civilization comes from and I like how it is made up in the game, and now I will love them more because of these changes, LLAMAS TO ALL!!!

I'm not a Chinese main, but I don't like their change, it was always fun playing a random match and having to get into the mindset of a completely different start. I also just like their start more than a lot of other civs simply from how different it is. Really hope they rollback on this one.

@jefffinkbonner9551

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, the better way to fix them was to give them supplies, crop rotation, treadmill crane (neither that important but they should just have them anyways) and redemption. Chinese have no answer for opponent onagers and bombard cannons in late game. Plenty of civs have redemption and block printing; it’d give Chinese at least a crafty way of dealing with it.

@LibeliumDragonfly

Жыл бұрын

In terms of update changes, Chinese seem to always get the short end of the stick. They never seemed to figure out how to tweak it without changing too much, so they often just change almost nothing, were the change is mediocre at best, and doesn't make it easy to use.

@LibeliumDragonfly

Жыл бұрын

To add insult to injury they don't even have gambeson. No doubt another "we want balance over accuracy" argument.... but still. I mean, the Chinese were using gambeson well into the 19th century.......

@ErgoLatam

Жыл бұрын

@@LibeliumDragonfly insalt, i love it

@herotalib9556

Жыл бұрын

I doubt it. They wont roll back on this since there goal is to make the start easier for new players, ESPECIALLY the XBOX so it wont happen. Overall, I dont care since this isnt a nerf or a buff to them and all it does is make start more standard. Doubt anyone will care after few months.

It makes me so happy that Vikings and Incas are getting decent buffs, they're two of my most played civs.

@karonteazt3286

Жыл бұрын

I really love incas and nos their kamayuks will rule

@khazix4833

Жыл бұрын

Now imagine Vikings 256x tech mod...

@tiestofalljays

Жыл бұрын

@DODO MCGuy Forget about ICBMs, now it’s time for ICBCs. Intercontinental Ballistic Conversions. No one ever expects the Spanish intercontinental ballistic conversions!

@Angel-comics

Жыл бұрын

I thought I was the only one 😅

@gabrielefarina9517

Жыл бұрын

The buffs for incas are nonsensical, and their team bonus is HUGE. I would have preferred a bigger buff on slingers

Wow. Vikings, Incas, and Ethiopians are gonna be real fun to play with here. There are SO many changes. So many lower tier civs got some really interesting upgrades! I'm stoked for this one😁 I really like the Donjon changes, and the Slav changes. So interesting. Not gonna spoil it for you guys, watch the video!! 😁

@blacklight4720

Жыл бұрын

I suppose you're not a Sicilian civ player. This faction is a joke symbol in terms of balance. Really disgusting situation. Aoe balance team pacified the faction in every possible way. Aoe already favors the defender, unlike most RTS.

@ArawnOfAnnwn

Жыл бұрын

@@blacklight4720 Try playing Supreme Commander, a game in which you can literally pummel your opponents to bits with long range artillery from a fully turtled position. AoE 2 actually strikes a balance between defence versus offence, with Starcraft being the other extreme where defenses are weak af.

@ArawnOfAnnwn

Жыл бұрын

​@@blacklight4720 No thanks. I absolutely don't want AoE to turn into medieval Starcraft 2, and I'm confident most of the community would say the same. Also Starcraft literally doesn't have walls (they literally use other buildings to wall off areas) and pretty much every RTS has choke points, including AoE. If you want to know what AoE would be like with flying units, just summon Catzor and see how crazy that is. And letting infantry scale walls would defeat the point of walls. If you really want to skip over walls, make a siege tower. They could even add a siege ladder unit, but basically anything but the Reapers ability to just Jump anywhere it pleases. I agree that Starcraft favors offense. But you know what - that's what makes it Starcraft. I can just play Starcraft for that. I don't launch AoE 2 in order to play Starcraft. If anything I'd say AoE has more dynamic gameplay precisely BECAUSE defense is a viable option. You can't win the game from a turtled position like in SupCom, but you do have options against an aggressive players besides playing aggressive yourself - switching between defense and offense IS dynamic gameplay, not just microing units. Oh and Starcraft is infamous for being all about unit micro - to the point where its economy is simplified. That's another thing AoE balances well - economy versus army. And AoE has rush strats, while things like the TC douche are definition of cheesing.

@blacklight4720

Жыл бұрын

@@ArawnOfAnnwn "No thanks?" I did not offer you anything, nor I'm saying that Aoe should turn into StarCraft. I suppose you don't play StarCraft or it's been a while. Every StarCraft map has starting area on elevated cliffs. What does that mean? It means indestructible walls. "Walling the ramp" is not walls, it's creating a gate to prevent opponents from harras mineral line, and at the same time letting your troops out. From "If you want to know..." until the end of the first paragraph. Either shows you have comprehension issues, or you trying to strawman my argument, which is disrespectful, and my decision is that it's not worth addressing. at least not until you learn how to maintain a respectful argument. Second Paragraph RTS that favors offensive is not only starcraft, it's every successful RTS. C&C, WC, Homeworld, SC, and many more strategy games that you might never heard of, because they perished along the way. They prove and have one thing in common, *Map Control* is the most important aspect of any RTS game. Player that plays passive and loses maps control, loses. Yet in Age of Empires player can get himself walled in, and forfeit MapControl and still win a game. In Aoe every player gets a structure that can defend it's resource collection(TownCenter and villagers), you get enough resources to hold into mid Castle Age(too much gold and too much patches), isolated from the rest of the map behind a wall. That is one of the reasons why Archer Line is powerful compared to other choices. You can ammas a critical mass and destroy enemy cavalry in the castle age. "Defense" as you call it, should not beat offense, it's purpose is to slow down the attacking player. In AoE decision engaging early can backfire way too easily, the only real safe choice is again, the archer line. Player wants to go Scout "rush"(13 minutes into the game is not a rush)? One wall and all Player's food is wasted and now He is behind an opponent that risked nothing, by simply building some wooded walls and houses+ archers. In other words, the aggressive player hindered himself. "Switching between defense and offense is dynamic gameplay". Ye sitting behind a f@ckin wall so dynamic. in any other RTS game you would be punished for not fighting for map control, but in Age of Empires is like that safe space song from south park. Dynamic in RTS is "Cause and Effect", you have to react to every move of your opponent. You can't simply sit behind walls and amass an army like it's a single player. Third Paragraph "StarCraft is infamous for being unit micro", ok and? You can take 1-9 monks and micro the sh1t of them in AoE, but you'll never do it. It's too skill demanding and unrewarding compared to walking with 20+ crossbowmen. I agree that SC micromanagement is necessary for being a good RTS. But if that's your counter argument, well what can I say? All RTS games use three type resources system, Main, secondary and Population cap. Usually games that use multiple resources are not RTS's but more of simulation games(Paradox Interactive style of games). Fourth Paragraph Oh wow, so many choices, I can't pick up. Rush is when a player takes risk in the early minutes of the game, at the expanse of his future economy or even "all in" which is risking everything at this stage. Feudal rush is not rush that like 9 minutes into the game, and there are not really any options before hand. You have TC drop, Militia Rush and tower rush. That's it. Basically, the first 7-9 minutes is macroing, the most engaging part in Dark Ages is scout fights, the one who loses scout can be punished heavily in Feudal. To summarize. Age of Empires is not that good of a game int terms of Real Time Strategy. It's alive because it's nostalgia. You don't agree with me? I don't care, I don't need you to agree with me, I'm explaining what makes RTS games engaging and fun to play. Another tip, there a video on youtube by a channel called "GeneralsGentlemen", the video is about what makes RTS game a fun one. Look it up, it should give you a good start at understanding what is good RTS.

@ArawnOfAnnwn

Жыл бұрын

​@@blacklight4720 Bruh, why're you even here if you think "Age of Empires is not that good of a game int terms of Real Time Strategy"? And the sheer irony of dismissing me with claims that I was 'disrespectful' when you have zingers like "sitting behind a f@ckin wall"? Respectfully, I don't think you know what 'respectfully' even means - especially given your grand proclamations about the Universal Rules of RTS (according to you). AoE 2 is bigger now than it was before, so much for your claims of it only being about nostalgia. Nostalgia doesn't grow a games' playerbase, while AoE has grown. "Every StarCraft map has starting area on elevated cliffs...creating a gate" - AoE also has cliffs, all you're doing is showing how long it's been since YOU'VE played the game. AoE has maps where you start on an elevated cliff too. You know what AoE ALSO has? Varied maps. Also randomized and unexplored maps, and the freedom to turn those settings on or off. Oh also ACTUAL gates, not makeshift ones. All you're doing here is revealing how homogenized the Starcraft settings are. Every map has you on an elevated cliff. Every map is played on explored, with all features in fixed locations. Maps have the same starting setup and similar resources. And so on. Starcraft is the most solved RTS ever made, precisely because of how samey it all is. So much so that even an AI could master it - and did. Good luck getting an AI to as easily master AoE when the map layout is randomized and the default setting is unexplored. Not saying it can't be done, but it won't be as easy. Starcraft is BUILT for excellence in EXECUTION - and little else. It likely has the least STRATEGY in it of any RT STRATEGY game, it's almost entirely about tactics. Unsurprising, given it's built for competitive play. AoE caters to a wider range of players. "a structure that can defend it's resource collection(TownCenter and villagers), you get enough resources to hold into mid Castle Age" - plenty of games especially at the pro-level are decided in Feudal fyi. ""rush"(13 minutes into the game is not a rush)" - according to who? You? Who made you the global authority on the definition of a rush in RTS games? Or whatever SC guide you're basing that on? What counts as a rush depends on context. It varies by game and even by map. You don't get to impose Starcraft definitions on all of the RTS genre. If you think AoE's rushes aren't rushes, I shudder to think what you'd think of a rush in Supreme Commander or Sins of a Solar Empire or Homeworld. "in any other RTS game you would be punished for..." - something tells me your only concept of other RTSes is Starcraft and games that tried to emulate it. Waiting out early aggression is not a bad decision in plenty of other RTSes. "Dynamic in RTS is "Cause and Effect"" - yeah, 'cept your idea of 'causing an effect' seems to only extend to the next few seconds or maybe a minute or two, in keeping with the hectic exhaustion that is Starcraft. Apparently the meaning of the word 'strategy' is lost on you. Cos cause and effect can and does take place on longer timescales than they do in Starcraft, both in RTS games and even in real life. AoE has cause and effect - you just can't see it either cos it doesn't happen fast enough for you to notice, or you just dismiss it as not fitting in with your idea of proper playing. "All RTS games use three type resources system, Main, secondary and Population cap" - LMAO what?!! Lol no. Once again you reveal just how narrowed into the Starcraft niche you are. You even acknowledge that other games exist, but dismiss them as not being real RTS games but 'simulations' lol. If you include pop cap, then AoE has 5 resources, and pretty much every game site everywhere classifies it as an RTS. Rise of Nations goes even further, having SEVEN resources - and is still classified as an RTS. Meanwhile Command and Conquer goes the other way, having just ONE resource. NONE of those are from Paradox btw. "You don't agree with me? I don't care, I don't need you to agree with me" - Lol, I can say the same buddy. But feel free to write up this screed on an RTS forum and see how many others also don't agree with you. Cos you want to pigeonhole RTS into one very narrow niche, and that's sure to get all the other RTS players riled up against you. "I'm explaining what makes RTS games engaging and fun to play." - FOR YOU. Kindly don't speak for everyone, at least if you want to pretend you're being 'respectful'.

Love the new berserkers with getting gold for raiding, fits the civ so much!

5:59 yeah I agree here, this seems like just a strict nerf. There will be less "idle time," but that's not the right stat here, since there will be overall less "work time." You immediately spend the 50 Food to train the Villager, so it's just 25 seconds with one less Villager. I'm not really a fan of this change.

@CrnaStrela

Жыл бұрын

I think it is buff to less skilled players since they don't have to focus on force dropping anymore for perfect start, so they can have smoother start although at the cost of less working time early on.

@7636kei

Жыл бұрын

Also, assuming they lose the +5 TC space (or at least +5 first TC space) the old bonus necessitated, doesn't that mean it's strictly worse than the Mayans' bonus?

I feel like changing Chinese to have 5 vills instead of to me feels like changing the fundamentals of them

@iiiiiifggffggffgfgfg

Жыл бұрын

Indeed. They could have had Chinese start with -10 food or something if pro player early game was too good.

@MadnessTW

Жыл бұрын

Not really. It's just setting their idle TC time to a minimum of 25s. This is mostly a high level nerf. Having said that, changing the start more might be necessary anyway. Like Goths, if they are so binary based on skill level, they can never be balanced.

@sotakoira1390

Жыл бұрын

@@MadnessTW A very common game design problem. X is already really good in Y, but doesn't see play in Z. If you make it viable in Z, it becomes oppressive in Y. Y and Z can be either pro or low elo, it happens both ways. But I'm not loving the change to Chinese, I think it was their core identity.

@ArmelKohn

Жыл бұрын

It is so bad for theme 😢

@n.f.ch.m.ph.67

Жыл бұрын

It's not changing it, it's suppressing it - Chinese will become a blander civ with this.

I'd like to point out that the Inca food discount also means that they'll now be better at going for Xolotls than the Aztecs~

@letswaveabook3183

Жыл бұрын

Therefore I think garland Wars should be changed to +4 melee attack (also for Xolotls). Fantaztecs being 2nd best is blasphemy.

@0oShwavyo0

Жыл бұрын

@@letswaveabook3183 you think Aztecs are better than Mayans?? By win rate the American civs are currently Incas > Mayans > Aztecs lol, so I think you need to make a very strong argument that Aztecs are in first place now for them to become 2nd after this change.

@letswaveabook3183

Жыл бұрын

@@0oShwavyo0 average win rate is irrelevant for me. The only real question for me is: "How well can you monk rush with them?"

I love seeing infantry getting buffed overall. All games are dominated by early archers into knights in castle. Nice to see how infantry are being pushed to become a contender to opening games with especially how well they will scale with the new tech. I wonder how pro players will react to the changes

@DefekacjaOdbyta

Жыл бұрын

If you’re curious about pro players’ reaction then Hera has already made a video about this upcoming patch kzread.info/dash/bejne/h5hsqriGcdTJdag.html

@hermannkurz4931

Жыл бұрын

Just give Archers a fire delay after moving...

@ChrisWEEZ

Жыл бұрын

My problem with Gambessons is that it’s a castle age tech. By the time you’re able to research it, you’re already dealing with knights or archer rushes.

Everyone gets a llama! Best Buff Ever of all time!

some very creative and new bonuses. good job to the devs. but civs like the persians could use some love too.

Spanish with its new bonus will be brutal in x256 mod lol

Man, this would be more epic in case April Fool's Day gives us another big moment. Love the llama gag, by the way.

Love the vikings changes, i always thought they should have been more raiding focused considering they are THE civ you think of when you think of raiding in a historical sense

So far the Incas change is my favourite. Easily. That shit is magnificent. GLORY TO THE INCAS!

I’ve been watching you for years. I am glad you are still around and uploading consistently. Thank you and for what it’s worth I appreciate you.

Guess I'm playing a lot of Chinese until this patch releases to get savour those last few moments of the true Chinese experience

@magesticalmysterium6856

Жыл бұрын

As I like to Mod. I'll just Restore their Original Bonus, and the Briton Range's 20% Speed)

@ilikechocolate3741

Жыл бұрын

I guess we will still be able to experience og chinese in the hd version

Wow. I love all of this even if I share some of your worries. However If they’re planning to watch things carefully and readjust unintended consequences I suddenly have zero problems. This feels as big as the DE update so I’m looking forward to the feeling of a “new” game.

I like all the emphasis on Infantry because historically was the backbone of every medieval army, so a little bit of more "realism" is always appreciated... And new metas is a always refreshing

@cb1997

Жыл бұрын

The 'theorycrafting' behind all of this is the devs avoidance of making any unit cost more than 1 population. The right way to balance the overwhelming power of cavalry vs everything else would be to make the knight line cost 1.5 or 2 pop space. Suddenly, infantry mass may not trade effectively, they are easier to mass and can more easily bog down a cavalry heavy civ.

@lscibor

Жыл бұрын

Not always, plenty of armies had somehow insignificant infantry with mainly supporting roles, particularly in the middle of medieval period and in Eastern/Central Europe, where infantry never caught up that much. Battle of Grunwald/Tannenberg, for example, was one of the biggest battles in Medieval period and most likely fought exclusively on horse. Anyway, the trouble is that militia line for most part, is the same unit as knights, only much slower and weaker, but cheaper. So by manipulating those stats you can either make one weaker than the other, or make them virtually the same, hard to balance them while making them different. Making infantry both different and good would require adding additional mechanics, like mentioned different population space. Other idea would be giving them some bonuses when standing their ground in formation, since this was obviously main strength of good infantry. But that would bea huge change, and likely a failure, standing around is not how you play AoE2/ Devs are obviously wary of changing the game to much, and making AoE2 something that's not AoE2, I guess.

@frenchyproductions9692

Жыл бұрын

​@@cb1997 Honestly shit take, no I wont elaborate

@nemdoc8666

Жыл бұрын

@@cb1997 that would make sense, having cavarly at 1.5 pop or even 2 pop will improve usage of infantry

@nemdoc8666

Жыл бұрын

@@lscibor great info thanks, xand yes it would chage the game completely

The sad part is, as Malians don't get gambeson, they lose the trivia of having all tech available up to Castle age.

@devangnivatkar2649

Жыл бұрын

Plus Incas also no longer have the claim of having a full Barracks, as they're now missing both Supplies and Gambesons

@clubas1

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. Malians already have very little for them already!

@darkunor6687

Жыл бұрын

Aren't the Malians the civ with the passive extra pierce armor? If that's so, it's should be clear why they lack it, they would end up with huskarls that can fight in melee lol

Hot take for the Briton team game win stats: Britons are almost always included in 3v3 or 4v4 team games on both teams, so even if they win they still have a 50% win rate. And 3v3 and 4v4 are a much larger % of the team game playerbase, so getting a good statistic from it is quite tough. Why they are included such a high amount is because without the team bonus, your flank just loses the numbers game vs their opponent and the game snowballs from there

@MrShadowThief

Жыл бұрын

When Spirit mentioned that statistic I immediately thought of Snorlax in Pokemon gen 2. The strongest non-legendary by a mile but only has a 50% win rate. Because everyone uses it.

@88porpoise

Жыл бұрын

Would be curious to see Mayans and Ethiopians (and other archer civs) win rates in 3v3 and 4v4 with and without Britons as an ally. If there are enough games of each that could be pretty telling

While some of the changes seem a little gimmicky, I still like the sound of this patch overall. It gives a much improved balance to several civs while also allowing for much more variety and diversity in gameplay. Can't wait to try it!

@L3monsta

Жыл бұрын

😊😊

Alright, time to enact my dreaded Ethiopian outpost rush!

HOLY MOTHER OF GENOESE CROSSBOWS this is a damn tasty update.

YES!!! THE ORGAN GUN MAKES SENSE NOW!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

Lithuanian +100 food per towncenter is quite similar to the Tatar +2 sheep per towncenter (starting castle age), however they also have +50% food from herdables, so 300 food without decay, but takes vills to gather the sheep

@MadnessTW

Жыл бұрын

That one's weird. Reducing the starting bonus to 100 seems appropriate as no other civ ever got +150 starting res and Lith were pretty good on many maps. I don't think they needed help booming. The extra res per TC in Castle Age probably could be a package other civs benefit from instead.

@saintpres4ge533

Жыл бұрын

@@MadnessTW Interesting enough Huns lost resources in exchange for not building houses. Chinese lost resources for having more villagers. Only Mayan's did not lose resources to have an extra villager to start with. Tatar's only get extra sheep in Castle age (used to gain 2 sheep per age so feudal was even crazier with scout rushes). If Tatar's did not have the +50% food from herdables it would instead be a 200 food bonus without decay from every new towncenter, as opposed to the new Lithuanian +100 food from every towncenter. Not as strong, but the instant food means you can much easier do a 3 TC boom in castle age and instead task your TC builders to the resource you have near the TC, or farms. So slightly worse Dark/Feudal age and bit stronger castle/imperial age. In my opinion, it only really hurts if you wanted to throw more vills on wood to get fishing ships or archers out early

@The-jy3yq

Жыл бұрын

@@saintpres4ge533 Mayans start housed with 50 less food tho

@saintpres4ge533

Жыл бұрын

@@The-jy3yq You are correct, I misremembered, they start with 1 extra vill and 50 less food. This would mean that Lithuanians are the only civ to have a flat bonus without a downside in terms of starting units and resources

@ssssdsdddbb

Жыл бұрын

@@saintpres4ge533 I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the Mayans -50 food is a fairly recent thing

I see they realized how badly they fucked up with the prior Viking nerfs.

wow... that's a lot! I'm so hyped to see competitive scene comming with new strats, forgotten units shine and low elo players trying more shenanigans! :D

Dravidians got nice buffs to complement their weakness. Especially in castle age. Now their swordsman got pierce armour and Seige got cheaper thanks to their almost open seige tech tree except Seige engineers similar to Ethiopians. Where quantity vs quality. Overall this civ covers all bonus in all angles.

Some good changes, was kind of hoping they'd maybe give more factions a unique castle though or might do some other visual improvement like more culture specific monks with how much this patch has been talked up about being huge. Or maybe Huns and Mongols finally getting a new more accurate architecture style.

@kommodore6691

Жыл бұрын

New art costs more money than just changing some numbers for balance.

Spirit, thanks for the video! I'm really excited for this update, seems like a breath of fresh air. Also looking forward to play with the Vikings and Incas after this!

I don't like the Briton range nerf. I feel like they could have made their team bonus 10% and given them an addition 10% that only applies to the Brit player. Like Spirit said, it's gonna nerf them in 1v1, where they're not all that amazing.

@Nysyarc

Жыл бұрын

Agreed, I actually enjoyed using britons in 1v1 and doing a really fast up to feudal into 1 range archers so I can get a faster castle time than people going 2 range archers with other civs. Cutting that range speed bonus in half, while not a huge difference, will make that strategy feel less effective since the whole point is that britons could mass archers noticeably quicker out of just 1 range, and now it won't be quite as noticeable.

@nemou4985

Жыл бұрын

@@Nysyarc massing archers is op

I love how he's so calm when he should be screaming like man this is huge Edit- see the heras reaction he does justice to the magnitude of this

I really like the Goths changes. It seems to slightly buff their poor dark age, but does not really help with already strong late game. It more so gives them a better drush or maa opening. More flexiblility on open maps.

The Chinese start needs to remain the same, this change destroys their identity and does not achieve much. One of the important milestones for aoe2 gamers was mastering their start, we need these kind of variations in the game.

SOTL: So I've been trying to come up with new video ideas- Devs: Say no more!

Man, you were quicker than I thought despite adding visuals! As for the Viking buffs, it may be due to the awkward place they are in at higher levels of play. Hera explained it best I think.

I actually like the majority of the changes but what I'm most excited about is how it will shake up the meta. Should be interesting to see all the new strats the pros will come up with!

That Celt healing aura bonus sounds super cool. I'm a big fan of infantry civs but not much of a siege guy normally so I kinda bypassed Celts. Maybe I should give them a proper go now.

Thanks for posting this, Spirit!

I’ve been playing since og aoe1, and I’m so stoked for this. So many of these feel like historical accuracy changes, but seem to be done thoughtfully. This is exciting

@JaredKelso123

Жыл бұрын

You've probably been in this franchise longer than just about everyone else on the planet.

@a-a-ron3542

Жыл бұрын

@@JaredKelso123 I'm old and near-death. >D

Super hyped for this patch! Lot of things I look forward to trying.

Like the infantry buff. We need to see more longswords in castle instead of the predictable Knight Vs Crossbow. The majority of battles involved infantry in the middle ages, it's time that was reflected. Will it be enough? Time will tell.

I knew this was going to be a great patch the moment I saw 0:40 show up. We're finally acknowledging that Militia-line infantry are one of the only unit types that are not ever a Civ's plan A. Hell, even infantry civs like with god-tier infantry bonuses like Japanese and Vikings go Arbalest as a plan A late game comp.

@chrisdaley2852

Жыл бұрын

I think we'll only see THS and champs as anti-trash still. But it'll be interesting if a longsword + xbow comp in CA works at some point. It still seems like it has a lot of weak points that make it suboptimal. Like how in early CA, you kind of want to upgrade to LS before they can mass knights but then if they don't it, you've sunk that cost. So you can't really play as reactively with infantry, you have to pre-empt your opponent. But maybe with good enough scouting and intuition LS+xbow could be a good play sometimes. It represents a pretty significant threat in CA if they plan to just wall up and boom to IA. Whereas knights can struggle to find an opening for a bit, infantry just make their own.

@beganfish

Жыл бұрын

Infantry is REALLY weak in AoE2, they would need a lot more buffs in order to become viable in the meta. Gambesons aren't gonna be enough to make them viable over archers and knights.

@vegannegan9652

Жыл бұрын

​@@beganfish 1 more upgrade for infantry....

I only play AoE once but damn i can't stop watch your video. Amazing voice.

Thanks for giving these updates. As someone who doesn't play or follow Aoe2 much anymore it's great to still be able to see how the game evolves

I look forward to playing more vikings

Don't really play AoE2 anymore, but it's nice to watch SotL and to know they're constantly updating the game 5:30 time to build more castles in one spot!! Vikings sounds really OP with the buffs. Guess they're becoming more war criminals by killing those poor trade carts and monks xD

@sanethoughtspreader

Жыл бұрын

I wonder if this change with the Vikings is inspired by age of empires 4 possibly having a new civ, the Vikings?! Hope so!

The most interesting thing is the Organ gun adjustment and the Donjon Buffs. Might have to try out the donjons now cause I like spaming spearman :D

I want a patch that adds some of the units from the campaigns to normal games, such as fire towers, mounted Teutonic knights, canoes, and other weird stuff.

@charleshimes1634

Жыл бұрын

I was waiting to see if someone would suggest this.

Would be interesting to see how Gambesons works with Teutonic knights vs. Archers, taking 3 damage instead of 4 damage is pretty huge when archers are one of their only weaknesses.

@jefffinkbonner9551

Жыл бұрын

It only affects the militia line.

Thanks for covering!

Really loved the pierce armor upgrade and overall celts buff!

As a Viking player I'm really excited for this patch! getting the gold from the kills is a genius idea, really adds depth and uniqueness to the civ.

I actually suggested castle healing zones 3 weeks ago!!! Can't believe my idea came true :)

I was hoping that the militia line would get some buffs after watching the last few tournements. As they were almost never used except as a Drush. A +1 peirce armor is a start, but I feel the issue lies more with the oppressive archers, rather than actual weakness of infantry.

@jefffinkbonner9551

Жыл бұрын

Tweaking blacksmith upgrade times could help. Fletching, bodkin, and bracer are all the fastest techs by far. Infantry armor is relatively quick, but it could be made as quick as the archer upgrades, and the archer upgrades could be slowed down even to the slowness of forging, iron casting, and blast furnace. That way, infantry always have a window of opportunity to be ahead of archers in upgrades.

@doe6974

Жыл бұрын

@@jefffinkbonner9551 oh wow. I honestly thought they were all the same time to research. A proposal i saw somewhere piqued my interest. Have ranged unit reloads timers only active while standing still. Preventing the infinite kite. This solves 2 issues. 1. Makes melee infantry able to fight ranged units(and maybe even win) 2. Fixes/reduces the melee pathing issue of meelee vs ranged that was caused by ranged units constantly changing formation.

Vikings should also get +20 or +50 gold for razing monasteries, just to be lore friendly :)

I agree that the Chinese did not need any changes. It stood out as a unique civ in terms of start, and should've stayed that way; hard to learn, hard to master.

If you talk about such a long code, would you mind putting it in the description as well so we can copy it?

@SpiritOfTheLaw

Жыл бұрын

Good point. I'll leave it here, as well: AwySkFVrXAWrCUukjjnfxjFN

Viking change is perfect

Love the viking raiding bonus!

Excellent video.

Hello. My two daughters and I just started playing this game a couple weeks ago. Your videos are appreciated as we’re still trying to figure out what works and what doesn’t. Also, for me at least, what does your YT channels name mean?

@williamschubert4819

Жыл бұрын

That's a really good question. It's probably something he randomly came up with but it would be great to know.

@lanceroark6386

Жыл бұрын

@@williamschubert4819 yeah. I know the meaning in the legal realm, but I also know of other meanings to the phrase so I was wondering what the meaning for him is.

@williamschubert4819

Жыл бұрын

@@lanceroark6386 I agree

@kikaioshin6700

Жыл бұрын

He said it in a video that Spirit of the Law is just something he heard his teacher say one day and he thought it sounded cool

@josephbrandenburg4373

Жыл бұрын

​​@@williamschubert4819 he was using the name before the youtube channel. I think it was his online ID back in the voobly days. So I think he just kept using it from when it was just his gamer tag... and as we all know, the tags we choose are inexplicable and random!

Gonna start being a Viking main now!

Mostly good changes, but I don’t like that change to the Chinese. Almost everything else in this patch feels like it’s about adding flavor to civs, and then you basically have the Chinese move halfway to copying the Mayan bonus.

Great video as always SotL. Though I mostly play age of empires 4 these days, I still love aoe2 and these videos ❤

I read the Hun Unique tech have a new effect "nuke the relic recollection rate of the enemies ".

The Bogsveigar Age of Mythology reference was nice.

A couple of these changes I'm questioning, but for the most part these are very good changes!!

Me, someone who doesn't even have Age of Empires 2 DE: Wow, another Spirit of the Law video! I can't wait to hear his thoughts on the beta changes.

Thx for actually make a proper video and not just reading the web page like others. Well done!

I don't like the Britons nerf. If the devs indeed felt they were OP in team games, they should have split the 20% bonus into a 10% civ bonus along with the reduced team bonus, effectively keeping their 1v1 bonus the same(ik it'd be 21% but it isn't that different from 20%) while nerfing the team bonus.

I always thought of a western Europe unique unit of billmen (infantry with pike like hooks) as their version of the camel. But make it have decent pierce armour and an anti cavalry bonus to force players into using longswords and the militia line as a whole.

@martytu20

Жыл бұрын

Billmen is more of an English thing, and I thought it was reflected with the Britons having FU infantry tech.

@ArawnOfAnnwn

Жыл бұрын

This is basically what the Flemish Militia is.

@martytu20

Жыл бұрын

@@ArawnOfAnnwn They use a spear/club hybrid called a Goedendag. It’s a very underrated polearm.

This is an interesting patch, there are some things i really don't like about iot, notably the Chinese and Gambesons. I also have concerns about some others like britons or as you mentioned the identity issues with for example Dravidians. The goths change is super cool though, it's kind of funny, i was sitting down writing up random custom civ concepts, (for fun), the other day and a couple had weird dark age stuff that meant their high food hunt income would last longer and that was used to counteract various arkwardnesses in their dark age from other directions.Seeing the devs basically do somthing similar for an existing civ is an amusing example of convergent thinking.

I don't like the Chinese change, feels like a thing you didn't need to mess with. And I'm not sure if really changes things? Most high level players were ending up with about 25 sec (or even a little less) of idle time at the start. That's the same time it takes to build a vil and you have enough food for 1 vil now. So most likely pros will still be able to queue vil + loom and by the time loom completes have enough food for the next vil. At 50 seconds into the game they'll be up 2 vils on a generic civ ... same as before. And low level players might end up in a similar situation too. Sure now they can queue 1 vil to get to the 6 from before, but if they can't get food figured out they'll end up in the same lousy situation ... not enough food and racking up idle time.

While balance changes in general are nice, I sorta dislike how complicated a lot of especially unique techs are becoming, for instance Chieftains or Strongholds giving two very clearly distinct abilities.

Thanks SotL!

Love the Sicilians changes, the idea of spears in is cool, no idea why they slowed castles for the but I can make spears in donjon now so I'd say it's a W

As a Viking main I'm so excited for this!

I agree with Spirit on the Chinese loosing one of their starting villagers. All civs shouldn't look and play like each other.

@vegannegan9652

Жыл бұрын

Then play aoe3/aoe4

The change to the Greek Fire UT is really odd: it buffs an Imperial Age building in Castle Age. It still doesn't make sense to research this tech on a land map in Castle Age at all. Probably felt that flipping them and adding Logistica to Castle Age is too strong. (but everything here is still in beta, anything can change till release)

I'm sad Teutons got nothing. With their champions now getting Gambesons on top of their existing bonus of +2 melee armor, Teutonic Knights are now more useless than ever.

@DowaHawkiin

Жыл бұрын

Champions can't walk menacingly.

As a Persians main, I can only describe my feelings towards this patch as... indifferent. Still waiting for unique castle designs for non-DLC civs since my secondary main is Saracens and staring at that building style is getting a bit old...

@herotalib9556

Жыл бұрын

I doubt Saracens are going to see any changes anytime soon. If you understand the market mechanic you would understand how strong they are. There Castle age units also been under the table buffed (I think skirmishers dont get bonus dmg now) so any buff etc to them would make the way too strong.

@LotsOfS

Жыл бұрын

@@herotalib9556 I think you missed the point of my post me breda

I like this patch and good job explaing it!

Very interesting to see how this plays out, glad to see that Malians might now gain a little more momentum with their eco buff. The one change that really stands out to me as funny though is the decision to buff Byzantines' lategame!

reverse the chinese change, spirit was 100% correct on this

Note on Lithuanians: it's also a really fitting cultural nod for a place that makes minimum 12 course Christmases. 😊

hoang is gonna love that stronghold buff.

Ok, this is just EPIC !!!!

I don't even play this game / haven't played it since I was a child 15 years ago or so. But damn your voice + humor + video structure let's me come back every time. I'm watching with great interest even tho it doesn't apply to me in any way. I don't even wach other AoE 2 content creators or pors xD

Tip for Spirit: you're putting timestamps in the description but they wont segment the video timeline if you dont start at 00:00