Big pat to Haeppchen for providing us with chapters for each one, as the thumbnails came with no name! Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz Discord: discord.gg/Flamu Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu Insta: instagram.com/flamugram/

@huzarion3814

2 жыл бұрын

I unlocked majority ships before legendary upgrades went to RB , but I did not played enought to unlock all legendary upgrades , first one that I unlocked was one for Republique , at the time I was poor in credits so I sold it and i had lately some regrets because I use or republique & Burgugone... secondary build (same captain 21p J.J.Honore) not for as much as secondaries but rather -10% reload of main guns if enemies are in seconday range = I dont need 26km range because I play it those ships in Ranked and quicker reload matter there , so I had mix feelings about selling that upgrade ... and this -6% extra reload speed is handy in end stages of battle , I have 46k RP but I rather buy Gibraltar that spend it on that Upgrate . My second upgrate that I unlocked was for Shimakaze and I am 100% happy with that , and rest of those upgrates relly mean nothing to me as I play regular T10 2 times in a years in Christmas & Anniversary for SG&SC , so no regret there for me.

@jamierabec7518

Жыл бұрын

I believe they have made some changes to the UUs since this video

you really told the truth. after they push alll leg mod into bureau, they just forget about them.

@SebaX92

2 жыл бұрын

I bought the Harugumo, Auda and Kleber ones. For Auda cause it had really bad acceleration on it (weak engine on Auda) and if you had to move..... yeah it was clumsy. Adding it gave you more concealment - good. Kleber made the gameplay funny, you are just a fast version of Benham with slightly worse concealment but crap guns. Still funny. Haru for div play (we play CV, Austin/Colbert and Haru) and the farm is real when cv puts fighter for us. Crazy.

@hwill2453

2 жыл бұрын

Having them forget it isnt necessarily a bad thing....most of the changes thus far have been nerfs. DM and Zao went from must have to not worth it.

@kuramathewolf

2 жыл бұрын

@@SebaX92 i mean if your playing CV as airfield. It speaks a lot about how you think about a game

@SebaX92

2 жыл бұрын

@@kuramathewolf did you even read my comment correctly? I said that I'm using the Auda legendary to move it better, cause without it it's clumsy as hell. Plus it gives more concealment. I always move my CV to good position.

@kuramathewolf

2 жыл бұрын

@@SebaX92 ,, if you had to move" that sounds like you hate to do it

So basically this whole video outlines how legendary mods have fallen into obscurity.

22:19 "fire [is] not really a threat to [the] Hindenburg"- Flamu 2022

@2bb334

2 жыл бұрын

laughs in hydrogen baloons

gearing "if you run on enemy with this module, enemy fucked" 25 million cruisers and dd with stealth radars and long hydro: "let us introduce myself "

@bradenhagen7977

4 ай бұрын

Me being a idiot going in head first has the same result.

For the Kremlin one, due to the weird dispersion curve of Soviet ships, you are also giving-up on accuracy. That's like +100m vertical dispersion past 12.5km.

Khaba upgrade is only one S-tier in my mind. It makes Khaba playable as it is not playable without it. All the nerfs totally killed Khaba, this make it playable again. Tashkent is even better than Kahabrovsk now.

17:37 I actually heavily disagree with Flamu's opinion on Montana's legendary mod, I absolutely love it. Yeah, on its own it's not that great, but it really shines for me when combined with the standard rudder mod, you get -50% rudder shift time, with the only downsides being worse concealment on a battleship with not amazing concealment anyway and fires burn on you for 3 seconds longer. It turns Montana from the worst rudder in the game into one of the best battleship rudders. It's amazing, and it actually makes me prefer Montana to Ohio in many cases. Of my tier 10 battleships, Montana is my second highest PR (behind only Thunderer) and win rate (only counting ships with more than 20 games, and 30 games or more Montana is first) and is in the top half for average damage, above the likes of Yamato, Ohio and Kremlin. I love Montana and love this mod, so yeah, hard disagree with Flamu here. Otherwise, mostly agree with Flamu's assessments.

Kleber leg mod makes you able to effectively use the highest torpedo dpm in the game. We used in to good success in CBs. Leg kleb is literally the worst thing to try pushing into due to speed and Torp spam.

thank you for this video in particular! will save me and others a lot of r-points and tears xD

really nice! thanks Flamu!

Nowadays there are some new mods, the following ones: Elbing M. Von Richtoffen Petropavlovsk Gouden Leeuw And we have Vermont and C. Colombo incoming soon. Very useful info 'bout the legen. mods. Thank you!!!

"That's why she is my wife, 10/10 best choice I ever made" exactly. I have essentially stopped playing warships but still follow your insta and watch these now and then as I haven't completely stopped with warships, and the main thing I like about your insta is the places you all go and things you do as a couple. Helps me to set goals! Unfortunately my wife is threatening divorce for the third time in 3 years which just screams ill omen. Sucks.

We NEED tier 8 premiums tier list

This is one of the most useful video about wows

Love the normal content. However the love for your lady is off the charts. We both are hitting over our tier. Well done sir!

GKF in B is fair. I build it legendary mod, with MB aiming mod in slot 3, and I grab the "faster MB reload when in secondary range" skill along with the pre-requisite 2ndry skills (range, accuracy ramp up, and fire prevention). You've got the spotter plane to mitigate the lost range circumstantially; and when you're in a brawl the 420mms are decent and get a solid RoF to supplement your secondaries. I'm at a 61% winrate in the GKF, and I'm pretty sure I had a much poorer winrate before zeroing in on this setup, as I'm pretty sure my initial matches in it tended to be terrible before the captain skill and secondaries rework. Although, admittedly, I've got the Preussen with a totally different captain too, on which I can build a more typical secondary build (still keeping the MB aiming mod in slot 3 though!). If I want to go full secondaries, well there's sclieffen, pommern, to a lesser extent Odin, etc, etc. YY is fair on B too. Circumstantially I'd argue A tier for better DD assassin capacity, but losing that extra concealment makes it far more risky to try baiting out the enemy smoke or trying to figure out what you're up against initially. Zao's I'd still rate higher - every extra shell you land on a DD is good extra shell you land on a DD. God-tier sniping is pretty much the only reason to play the Zao at all.

Love how they simply stopped making new ones years ago…

Did they add the new views for spotter plane? Was playing and the shells dont seem to land short anymore

The Wooster one seems fine to me: you get an extra heal and they reload faster, too.

On Khaba leg mod you forgot to add that you basicly lose HP worth of 1 heal (as its -20% healing per heal)

Thanks, as always. I'll probably hold and get Ohio or Sevastopol for now, and go for the YY mod next

Woa, Finish really is something XD

The new captain gives -20% MB reload on Combat Scout, giving YY a 330k DPM before AR when spotted

module on shima is 10% torpedo reload upgrade, this is straight A tier.

@firstname3382

2 жыл бұрын

With the upgrade your reload is decreased by 14 seconds on the 12km, which I mean is okay but idk if it’s worth the 20k research points

@trololoev

2 жыл бұрын

@@firstname3382 we ranking modules, not the research bureau. If someone play shima alot, then of course it worth it.

@siriusczech

2 жыл бұрын

@@firstname3382 It is. This alongside other upgrades takes you down to like 103s reload on those 15 brutal torps. That is a LOT (and not counting AR). There is only one downside of the ship, and that is if you get rushed and need to maneuvre fast out, you cannot backtorp as fast due to horrendous torpedo traverse (it feels like ages). But that is something you should definitely take into account and you can counter it by preturning your tubes to approximately right direction (hence the RPF). Besides this inconvenience (which doesn´t play a big role all in all), this is a straight up buff to your main weaponry aka wall of skill. Combine this with best-in-tier concealment, decent speed, smoke to disengange and quite good IJN guns (yeah, reload not good, but kiting Shima is hard to kill if you are not in friendly radar area). And unlike gunboats, half-hp shima gets another 10% reload buff on torps without any downside on using them from stealth. And trust me that around 90s reload on those torps with this module is nothing to joke about, good luck dodging without hydro

lmao legendary haru plus legendary kleber in CB for the meme

Why would concealment matter in a bb when there cv almost every game that completely counter stealth anyway?

About the Des Moines Leg Mod - has the Last Stand bug been resolved at this point... and is it still worth the expense vs other options for slot 6?

WG unique (legendary) upgrades remind me of an episode of Rick and Morty with Mr. Needful. Mr. Needful gives items to people. Mr. Needful: This aftershave makes a man quite irresistible to women. Goldenfold: Nothing to read into there! Thanks! (Goldenfold takes the aftershave and leaves.) Later on... Mr. Goldenfold: This aftershave made women want me but it also made me impotent! Needful: A price for everything, Mr. Goldenfold. A price… for everything! Muahahahaha!

Is it raining outside? Or is it sounds from the game?

Jeez man, love the fact you got married but that carbonara with avocado and feta... Bruh dude 😢

The Yamato legendary upgrade was nerfed. It used to give also a 2 seconds reload improvement but that has been scrspped...

+1 Wife's skillful cooking and wonderful presentation :) Flamu, thank you. +1 for the Legmod love! ~v~

@pcsproshop8972

3 ай бұрын

better late than never

On console we have a commander perk that give us 20% better concealment while we have speed boost online, imagine a kleber wity 4.4km concealment range gor 1 and half minutes lmao

Do we still have the last stand bug NOW, in 11.6?

How do I buy them? I don't see them in the equipment section or the upgrades section of the armoury.

@MrSchwabentier

Жыл бұрын

Research bureau section of the armory. Only unlocked when you have 5 Tier 10 ships unlocked

Just the roast of wow is good enough for me

Everyone forgets that the Gearing mod also worsens enemies accuracy against you by 5% (I think) and that’s not all. The changes to camos in the latest patch take away the same bonus to enemy accuracy that camos used to give. So, the Gearing mod makes you the ONLY ship on the map where enemies have worse accuracy against you.

@sillysaili

2 жыл бұрын

it's just a carry-over from conceal mod conceal mod also has the 5% dispersion nerf

the Upgrade for Montana and Hindenburg are S Tier !!! Also i am finding the Conqupgrade is a at least

What about gouden leuw's upgrade?

They should add the 12% on all mainbattery Reload skills on top. Would be a very fast rework for some legendarys

Is last stand bug on the DM still valid in 2023?

is last stand bug fixed now since last update ?

sorry did i misinterpret the Last stand bug? was he saying its basically always active? thats neat

So, I don't get WG with these upgrades - they generally alter the play style or out-and-out harm the ship. Why wouldn't they and out make an expense of 19k research points an upgrade so people would strive for them? Why the dance with the good and bad in these upgrades?

Cant wait for Petro and Nevsky leg mods...

the rep may be not so good, but i enjoy the Dakka build, even if you are targeted you are pretty done, also i find the rep kinda slow for the french line

I would add for CVs : Midway A tier Haku C or even D Auda B tier or C.

Exactly when I started to mount upgrades to my all tier 10 and premium ships❤

The last stand It’s never been a bug it’s a feature .

@Flamuu

2 жыл бұрын

No, it's literally a bug. WG have acknowledged it and plan to fix it. forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/255839-psa-last-stand/

Hindys Legendary could be of good use on Monty tbh. I get its a cruiser vs a BB but Monty for real could use a 20% to fire and flood time

Okay, I've looked everywhere, how do you get Unique upgrades. I've heard something about missions, but the Research Bureau doesn't appear in my armory

@MrSchwabentier

Жыл бұрын

Research bureau appears when you have unlocked 5 Tier 10 ships

Have they fixed any of these leg mods in the last 6 months? time for another run-through? Thanks Flam Fam!

Ever since they nerfed DM leg mod it hasn't been an auto pick, I used to run leg mod but switched back to reload for bigger pp dpm

the wooster one is great, but then I am weird

7:13 I don't like Yamato legendary mod: i tried it but may be due to my poor RNG, it does not makes a big difference, while a reload boost allows a lot of shell for minute, easily less the 26sec reload.

@Ace42x

2 жыл бұрын

I always find Legendary Yamato way more comfortable to play than Musashi because Yammy hits shots that Musashi just ends up bracketting. Yamato I feel comfortable taking a cheeky crossmap on some poor oblivious cruiser; Musashi I know I'm going to take two or three salvoes to reliably achieve the same result, and even with a marginally faster reload, that just doesn't strike me as a good trade-off. Admittedly, Musashi's dispersion's not identical to non-legendary Yamato's anyway, so the issue might be less pronounced that this comparison suggests, but I'd always rather have slightly more reliable salvoes that more ones that I can't trust to get the job done in a pinch. Also, legendary mod is useful every single salvo you fire in the game. Reload speed is *only* useful for those follow-up salvos you fire in quick succession, and then only if those follow-ups occur within the, what, 3-4 seconds? Worth of reload time you save.

Disagree with Kleber LM point. Yeah, maybe it looks downgrade but it's not that. First of all: you need to stack all concealment bonuses. So concealment mod + LM concealment mod + concealment expert on captain. Also you SHOULD take that speed up perk what gives you +8% speed when you undetected. What now? You have a speedboat with literally 60+ knots and one of the best concealment on level (I'm not sure how much is it but something about Daring), not so bad reload with reload booster and torps. No, it's not about memes but about impact. You can literally carry you team by being there where team needs you most. You can overplay every ship just because you are fastest ship in the whole game. And of course you can troll because giving Intel and dealing impact is funny but lil' trolling from Sonic the Invisible is much funnier. Very good build for clan and ranked, good for random. I recommend it to every true DD gameplay enjoyer. You guys gonna have one of biggest winrates with it. But yeah, it's not about damage but about using skill and brain to win games. And yeah, this is total conversion of gameplay: exactly what I want from LM so this is unique, effective in good hands and funny. For me probably S+ tier.

@_the_wolff_2652

2 жыл бұрын

Thx, good point buddy! Will try in CW. :)

@landochabod7

Жыл бұрын

I run Legendary Kléber myself, and it's fun, but let's be honest: regular Kléber is a lot stronger.

The torpedo tube traverse of Shima LM is so bad you actually don't want to use it. You also completely loses your ability to CQB.

what about petro legendary mod??

I think you will not read it but still i'll try. I think for many this legendary upgrades would work if they would be 1st-3rd slot. They always replace heavy value ones

@mattmac4087

2 жыл бұрын

Original plan was to make them offer alternative playstyle hence they replace most important slots. Too bad only like 3 really fit that concept...

The prop mod on legends is busted so your reverse speed is nearly double what it should be. It's why my yamato on there reverses at 22knts

i think Moskva is S tier, it must-have if you have play Moskva, free dpm up in price of nothing. It better that demoine, because he exchange dpm to maneuver, but Moskva just receive more damage. you always outdamage enemy nose-in Moskva is she hasn't have this module.

"So I haven't watched the video, but in my opinion...."

The Republique legendary upgrade is interesting. The reload buff is more impactful that you might think, and when combined with other skills, you can get to a base 20 second reload, 14 or so at mid health and on fire. The range debuff can be troublesome if intend to play more like a mid-to-long-range battleship, but a Republique cruiser build is a lot more viable than you might think. You sacrifice a lot, but there is something to be said about dishing out 431s every 14 seconds...

@siriusczech

2 жыл бұрын

Still those extra 6% are not worth those 20k RBpoints due to what versatility you are giving up.

@gantster5896

2 жыл бұрын

@@siriusczech Well, it depends. If you really like the Republique it might be worth it. But otherwise, I agree that there are better upgrades and ships for RB points.

@landochabod7

Жыл бұрын

What Flamu doesn't mention here is that the legendary for the République doesn't have the turret traverse penalty of the reload module. In practice, good traverse often translates to a DPM buff, as you'll be able to have all your guns ready to fire a few seconds earlier.

my italian heart just cracked wide open for the pain bro... i know u must like it but it hurts to hear the name with the additions! anyway thx for this video i really needed it it helps your opinion!

Can someone give the list of the two A tier's, i know DM is the S. but i don't want to watch again... too lazy

Hard disagree on your opinion on Worcester's legendary upgrade. It shines in it's versatility, and how many consumables it gets. The +1 to all of them is an extension. Extra spotting, survivability, and AA. As well as a cool down of 20%, which is additionally massive. Worcester is meant as a jack of all trades, and that upgrade makes her shine.

z-52 in my opinion c-tier, because in full torpedoes build you has less that minute reload. But to be fair i didn't play him for long, maybe today he worse.

@00bean00

Жыл бұрын

Yep 58 seconds before AR, Arms Race, and Lutjens

35:35 Oh, I just now realized its Finnish. *Nice*

Zao legendary used to be a lot better because it also gave it a rudder shift buff.

Legendary Upgrade Mino makes me want to buy the upgrade so i can enjoy a Vampire 2 crawling smoke in a T10 Cruiser lmao

@YC-ls4yx

Жыл бұрын

Mino LM doesn't give you crawling smoke, but in total it does last longer than the stock smoke generator.

@forge16hanadamaintenancedr43

Жыл бұрын

Have you gotten it? If so, how has it been? Having the same idea in mind. I find myself needing to spot sometimes so making the smoke budget crawling would definitely be great.

@SinNombreBiH

Жыл бұрын

2 mino div with one leg mode smoke and one radar is deadly.

Daring upgrade should be that it turns into a sub.

I logged in to see the changes, shame, I could have sold some camo's that are no longer able to sell. the torp reload portion of Grozovoi mod was always there.

@RomanAmirdzhanov

2 жыл бұрын

Don't forget you received the bonuses for all of these camos (exp, fexp, commander exp), which you wouldn't have got if you had sold them before the update

@myopicautisticmetal9035

2 жыл бұрын

@@RomanAmirdzhanov true.

THAT MEAL IS A DISGRACE! avocado and feta are each abomination on top of Carbonara, please stick to smoked fish!

Will the Seattle and Alaska return to the store??

@fluxthelycanroc9603

2 жыл бұрын

Seattle's tech tree and Alaska well maybe. Though probs not just so it can stay in them Christmas loot boxes

@shoukatsukai

2 жыл бұрын

Puerto Rico is returning this patch, which is just an upgraded Alaska

@user-ig9dr8bm1l

2 жыл бұрын

@@shoukatsukai You meant downgraded Alaska, right? Because Alaska is extremely strong for 9 tier, and Puerto Rico is one of the weakest T10 cruisers

@Ace42x

2 жыл бұрын

I assume Alaska B will be back for Black Friday sale if that'll do you.

I highly recommend using Yamatos standard reload modul. These 7% dispersion buff is more or less usefull, the Yamato already HAS a very good dispersion, so i would value reload in this aspect over an add. dispersion buff. the old legy was insanely good, giving a dispersion buff AND reload (smaller than the reload-modul though but.. ). This WAS the best legy. You ll use the dispersion buff for the americans, because they do not have any else. They only can have the -11% at T9 / T10 and that brings their dispersion to a "good" value, but not to a great(er) one. If you wanna know, wether your dispersion is decent or not, you can just use the range was 3 number indicator and compare it to the dispersion. If the number (3 number range minus dispersion) negative, the dispersion is VERY VERY good . Yamato has 26,6 range, so 266-256 dispersion = -10 as value. This -10 is insanely good for a BB. Til +10 is very good, til +20 is good, til +35/40 is "okay, useable" and above is just awful. Note: The number of shells has to be concidered. If you have tons of shells, the dispersion is "less" important, compared to a ship with a small salvo volume but maybe similiar dispersion or slightly better values.

@YC-ls4yx

Жыл бұрын

Yamato LM has always been ass. LittleWhiteMouse plotted 50 salvos with and without it and couldn't tell which one was better. The problem with the mod is that it does nothing to your vertical dispersion, which is by far the bigger problem for bbs.

@Herastheblackwolf

Жыл бұрын

@@YC-ls4yx You mean the first lm or the nerfed one been tested?

@YC-ls4yx

Жыл бұрын

@@Herastheblackwolf The originally released one, before any of the nerfs. I myself also tested for hours in the training room and dismounted it the same night. Being able to keep your guns on target while turning your ship is also quite important for Yamato.

Leg YY seems like it'd be good for smoke farming as well.

@matthiasdarrington3271

2 жыл бұрын

Why the f would you use a YY to smoke farm?

@EvoraGT430

Жыл бұрын

@@matthiasdarrington3271 Ask MalteseKnight; he has just such a build.

Shima-Get Gearing - S clam battles only (bad for random battles D)

🙏

if you think becoming her husband was your choice you're kidding yourself :P also, why spoil a perfectly good carbonara with some bloody avocado? :D

For the CVs: Haku upgrade is strong, because it enhances the boost but makes it shorter. So if you’re disciplined, you can actually avoid a lot of damage because you can get in and out strikes faster. Midway: While the bombs hit harder it is questionable, because you lose the best upgrade: Speed. Less speed means less attacks and more plane loses because more time in AA. It his however good if you are planning on going for DDs primary with these bombs. But generally I would not call it good. Midway lives from cycling through your squads (like most CVs, but it is very good on stacking DOT and still good at alpha damage) and the faster you can do it, the faster your planes move, the better it is. Audacious: Honestly don’t really have an opinion because I don’t like the platform at all. Its a nice DOT ship if RNG is kind to you and the matchmaking allows for it, but the lack of speed, alpha damage and even tools against DDs + the more vulnerable hull (both Midway and Haku are godtier tanky at range nose in/out) kills it for me. So maybe some Audacious lover can fill in wether the UU is good or not.

@Ace42x

2 жыл бұрын

Generally agree with you: Although I think using Midway's bombs to devastate DDs is just super-valuable (I think it's probably a contender for most reliable CV tool to kill DDs in the game off the top of my head? Maybe Chkalov / Lowenhardt HE bombs might be marginally better because of how they handle, although I've had way more practice HE divebombing in US CVs so am more comfortable with that, also, different tiers so not directly comparable). The rocket nerf's pretty much trashed Audacious (and all the UK CVs) IMO: Using their great rockets (and slow plane speed so you don't overshoot during the aiming phase) to bully DDs was their game-winning niche. I can only see Audacious's legendary module being valuable if they removed squadron spotting, TBH. Being able to shortern the flight-time and thus dunk on nearby ships in quick succession is only valuable if you don't get spotted and then insta-walloped while you're trying to stay just outside of ships' detection radii.

@Joshua-fi4ji

8 ай бұрын

​@@Ace42xaudacious UU is good because it improves the ships characteristics and lets it position quite aggressively. It's the only CV UU I think is remotely worth investing in. The increased boost time on the planes is also nice. The British rockets are still strong and easy to use. Just takes a slight bit more skill. The UU on Audacious I think actually gives me a reason to play it over the other carriers.

Oh yeah I’m NA I knew you could fire into smoke and used your video to refine my smoke firing. It’s a popular solution to an annoying ship. So I can see the hate 😆 seeing as I hated being smoke farmed so I was like F -u imma blap you back.

legmods would be legendary if we could put them in any slot... as is, most are shit for the sacrifices needed

I play Hindi on legi find this great

Apparently, as of 10.8 the last stand bug was fixed.

I feel like GK's unique upgrade would work better on schliefen cos you are already not engaging at max range except if you're dumb

Skipping the CV upgrades is bs. They are part of the game. I'd like to know their place in the tier list.

Ye legendary henri is broken cuz it took me 2 games to break 300k dmg

im not even playing wows pc but i watched this video till the end ps: i play the console version.

Waiting for the: "haven't seen the vide yet, but in my opinion" comment

Leg mods are perfect example of WG lacking imagination.

10 out of 10 on your dinner. Good wife ;)

Vape Harugumo 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 #ChatWin

Midway upgrade is easy an S tier list upgrade

In a nutshell, "Wargaming did some pepega coding."

Shame on me, never buyed one. I only got RPs for Ohio and stopped there.

@fluxthelycanroc9603

2 жыл бұрын

Same. Thought about legendary des mod but I got Salem so meh

@sardaukerlegion

2 жыл бұрын

@@fluxthelycanroc9603 Same lol!

kremlins unique changed

As an avid Yamato and Shimakaze player I would switch their position. Yamato mod is not a super straight upgrade for me. I still use it but reload mod is also a fine choice imo. Shima mod is a straight upgrade imo. It puts your torp traverse in line with your gun traverse. And if you are playing Shima correctly (that is with RPF) you will have your guns (and therefore torps) pointing in the right direction before something unexpected happens. And you should also be in a good position when your torps finish reloading because that is what Shima is all about. So a further 10% reload buff is just a straight upgrade in my book.

sad that most of those legen are kinda... bad . in the other hand if weegee do make more of them you gonna see legend mod for supership and sub so ( and the urss cv)

Hi Flamu! Thank you for the content - I listened to this video and I just really don’t understand why bother investing in any of these? Nearly all of them downgrade your ships - it feels like they need to rework them for the current game play - they seem like they forgot about them - I have no plan to invest in them - getting down graded and PAY for that seems sad - I feel these should be made to compliment the ships or make them better for competitive play - these just don’t make sense