after my traumatic 13g shroom trip i had blood in the whites of my eyes and persistent HPPD. I lived in an extremely bizarre, egoless and dissociated state for several months after. today, 6 years later i still have HPPD (seeing strange static/noise and everything is slightly animated)

@kkyyee

3 ай бұрын

i also want to add a little bit about how i have made sense of the experience: i believe there is a deeper truth to so-called “depersonalization/derealization/dissociation.” The idea that you are a person, a body, a soul, a mind, etc. is a hallucination. As well as the idea that there is a world that exists outside of “yourself,” for lack of a better word. The word “exist” means to stand apart from. And any ideas of separation are purely imaginary. Basically, reality is akin to a dream that is only witnessed passively. We only imagine that we have any sort of control or agency

@triple_gem_shining

3 ай бұрын

Maybe you shouldn't take 13 grams without being a highly refined individual scrub

@kkyyee

3 ай бұрын

@@triple_gem_shining yeah, i wouldn’t recommend it to anyone

@jeremyn4397

3 ай бұрын

@@kkyyee Thank you for sharing your experience. I was fortunate enough to only have this feeling for a few days, but it is one of those things that once you know you can't unknow what its like. Yogi and buddists have been talking about the truth of a dreamlike reality for millenia. They weren't wrong, but reality and real are two different things. Peoples fake lives fully engrossed in the digital simulacra or in their own ego are just as real as the static dream state. Given this, it is better to choose which ever real gives you a happier life, if you are lucky enough to be able to make that choice. Anyway, good luck on your recovery.

Shortly after my first ever dose of MDMA I got clinically depressed. After that came a manic, full-on psychotic phase. That was 19 years ago. On meds, hospitalizations, ever since. On disability since 2010. Once a successful Silicon Valley management type I watch watch myself slowly declining towards the underclass of society. I would not wish this on my worst enemy.... Be careful, people. I would have never thought that I'd be the one with the genetic disposition. Neither do you.

@VanKrumm

3 ай бұрын

One dose of MDMA and bipolar? Yeah you were meant to have that man, one way or another it was going to happen.

This is a talk which I wish that I could have listened to and shared in the 1980s. Regardless of how all of my experiences with psychedelics, even large doses, were positive, there were instances where good friends and acquaintances had the antithesis of a good experience. Priceless friendships dissolving due to the contrasts in our experiences. Thank you to Abigail Calder for sharing their time, experiences, research, and insights with us and to ALPS for hosting this talk. 🌺

i was very impressed with how at ease Abigail seemed to be in front of a crowd especially when the question came it was so well structured that it almost felt like she had time to prepare for each individual question even though it was not the case. that was a stunning presentation !

I had already quit alcohol for a number of years but I was struggling with compulsive marijuana use that I felt unable to control and unable to overcome. I took a dose of mushrooms and during or after that trip I gained the strength to quit. Not only the strength but the motivation and confidence that I could do it. It wasn't immediate but it was the tipping point for me to quit smoking weed and seek help for my mental health issues(bipolar depression). I have also had more than one severe panic attack on mushrooms which were traumatizing for me. I want to do mushrooms but the fear of having the panic attacks stops me from doing so, even though I often feel a benefit despite the panic attack. It's just hard to justify taking something that is going to give me near-death experience and feelings of terror, even if when its all over I will feel a net positive. In the future I'm interested to try mushrooms in a safe setting with a trip sitter to help reduce the effects of a panic attack if it happens.

Amazing presentation. Clear and honest, with helpful information to boot. Hard to beat that.

This is good info. Psychedelics are superbly fascinating from an evolutionary viewpoint: Why? How? They hint at questions that much of humanity thinks have already been answered. I never thought to compare HPPD to flash backs as it was only a minor convenience for some years. Several "bad" trips and they were manageble/learning experiences, but have seen up close a few people slowly lose their minds, and pre-existing conditions likely contributed. One thing I have noticed is that psychedelic use can result in increased magical thinking and higher reliance on cognitive biases to ease decision making.. or something of that nature. I believe it was Hoffman who did studies on thousands of people in the 60s, and found some 4-5 percent of people had really negative reactions. As good a pretext as any for the nearly decades long war on a few chemicals. Edit: So I just thought about it. In both cases my friends claimed they heard voices. I recently learned that not everyone has an internal voice, and maybe the use of psychedelics changed that (it has some lasting effect on mine too) and they, while intoxicated, misinterpreted that then convinced themselves of some magical thing occuring, causing them to look for reasons why that was true and... Snowball insanity. The two parents with schizophrenia in one case, and the hyper-restrictive religious upbringing on the other, probably didn't help, either.

@jamesleonard2870

4 ай бұрын

Microwaves, possibly like the weapons suspected to have caused Havana syndrome, can increase drug affects 100-200 times. The presence of microwaves, either intentionally or unintentionally could induce a bad trip where otherwise it might not have been. Also, very small (undetectable ?) doses can be dramatically more intense that would be the case otherwise. The diplomats in Cuba reported hearing “voices” or “messages” during their attacks as well. This was part of mkultra research and every country with microwave or neuro weapons capabilities know this, as do medical researchers who are trying to exploit this affect in treating difficult to reach/treat with ordinary drug therapies.

@terbospeed

4 ай бұрын

Umm, I've seen a little bit about MK ULTRA; I don't think my teenage friends were targets of any kind.

Psychedelics 🍄 killed my drug and alcohol dependencies - one trip two years ago to purge my depression and chronic anxiety from my system was the best decision I ever made. I've done Psilocybin mushrooms a few times since, but after my last high dose trip I realized that the medicine has taught me enough for now. I might return to psychedelics later in my life if I ever find a source.

@katlinkate

4 ай бұрын

Once I took shrooms on accident they were in a chocolate bar and my fat ass thought it was regular chocolate 😂

@userconspiracynut

4 ай бұрын

[adamsflakesx] Ships them.

@albert.robles7

4 ай бұрын

​@@userconspiracynut where to search??

@albert.robles7

4 ай бұрын

Is it Instagram?

@userconspiracynut

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, he has variety of stuffs like mushrooms, LSD, DMT, MDMA even the chocolate bars

Negative effect from psychedelics #1: you wake up to just how deranged and insane humanity is, have no way of changing that, all while it now being impossible for you to fit back in with the lunacy; true story.

@goodToBeLost

4 ай бұрын

I am already living like that, without psychedelics :P

@hoon_sol

4 ай бұрын

@@goodToBeLost: Yeah, but even a total NPC might wake up if they take psychedelics, and then they'll get ostracized from the herd for their newfound discovery of how insane everyone is.

I think delusions of grandeur is a big one I've noticed to different scales and similarly over inflated egos among regular psychedelic users. Whether these are notable negatives or not is debatable but I'd say it's not helpful to the personal growth element of a reason to take psychedelics.

thanks for your work - we all love em, but need the data to improve the process.

I want her for president.

@triple_gem_shining

3 ай бұрын

She wants you for sheepish voter so it's mutual

What I have found in most of social science and areas that have an effect on mental health is that the difference between most things we talk about is a difference in the contrast between the rates of change of processes. Life is only a process of moving parts and the balance between them. If someone has been shielded from a perticular reality for too long and suddenly is forced to come to terms with it in order to be a memeber of a functioning group, then this often results in the different manifestations of what we call mental health. Most mental health conditions are related and belongs to a taxonomy that are separated from the "healthy population" by this populations sense of fear. This is why we can have what some people call "functioning addicts", some types of romanticized schizophrenics with "beautiful minds", artists that cut off their ears or professors that have childlike social skills.

Is there a link between tinnitus and cymatics specifically relating to geometric or fractal patterns appearing in both open and closed eye visuals?

I came here from the latest "Mentor Pilot" episode about the mushroom taking Pilot. Any one else?

@alkeryn1700

4 ай бұрын

i was at ALPS and saw the talk. what do you mean by Mentor Pilot ? what episode ?

❤Thank You, all I have heard the last 5 years is how miraculous they are. Some brains just will be worse off with them, so they need tk find out why and not allow those brains to be exposed

Best thing before tripping is to learn about the drug and what one might to expect. Reading hundreds of trip reports from ppl and always expect a down-period after your trip. This part most forget and a trip comes with costs, doors open you'll never close as well. If you can manage these expectations you're more equipped for those occasions that might propell or suck you back into a neuron pathway where you get misaligned and ego - spirit can split...

I wonder how big the overlap is with profound meditation experiences. I would guess some of these effects could occur, but at a lower rate.

I wonder why clinical trials use such high doses of MDMA. It's usually 1.5x to 2.5x more than a person would want or need imho.

@Robotooo

3 ай бұрын

I think it’s the other way around. Seems to me that a lot of party people will take ups to a gram over a night of partying, whereas a clinical trial participant will take less than 200mg. I think it explains why mdma has a common reputation for leaving a depressive hangover recreationally, yet that is not reported in clinical trial paeticipants

@paxdriver

3 ай бұрын

@@Robotooo i've never seen or heard of anyone taking that much. pills come in .75 to .2 and most people only redose once or twice. That's nowhere near 2g. 200mg is a high dose when most people feel the effects from half of that.

We've gone from "communal support" to "professional support" Capitalism is trying to monetize and profit from these basic human relations. These things happened naturally in early human communities, but now they are a source of profits. I don't knw the way forward, but it probably involves a lot of looking back.

@ceej5705

4 ай бұрын

Produce your own...never buy or sell anything spiritual.

@LongDefiant

4 ай бұрын

@@ceej5705 yeah but if you decide to raise up a community shaman they come after you with police and firearms. It's a little hard to maintain spirituality when you're completely separated by incarceration.

@ceej5705

4 ай бұрын

@@LongDefiant this path is a solo path in these times. Monetizing or rising up as a shaman, an untrained one at that, will only lead to disaster. These molecules and the universe they are a part of do not need your help. If an individual doesn't come to these experiences on their own they are probably not ready for the transformation....as the empirical evidence suggests. When you are ready to guide others, they will find you....no one will be wise to this. As the mushroom says: don't worry, everything is perfect, love everyone and tell the truth...do not lord yourself over them.

@alkeryn1700

4 ай бұрын

@@LongDefiant you can make small comunities of close friends but you need to be discreet.

Is it that we hallucinate sights and sounds or that we are now able to perceive what has always been there? Under normal circumstances, the eye is only able to perceive within a set spectrum but when tripping, the pupils tend to get big and small which possibly open your perception to what has always been there surrounding us.

@jeremyn4397

3 ай бұрын

The truth is that we are always "hallucinating". What is "real" as we call it (say, a cup sitting on a desk) is as you said a perception of what is there. The reality of the cup on the desk is only ever articulated by whatever measurements are being made of that system. When you take psychedlics, you aren't seeing "true" reality. You are hallucinating, and percieving reality in an alternate state, but that perception is no more true than your sober state. This is not to say that your sober perceptions and altered perception aren't "real". They are very real but not reality per se.

Has anyone thought to test the vomit after purging for specific enzymes, flora, etc.?

@ddaavvee68

Ай бұрын

good idea Dr House

2 bad mushroom trips and i give up on those. Maybe they can play with the active molecule and make it less problematic for some people. I know the Pharma made Ketamine spray is less likely to produce hallucinations and disassociation them regular Ketamine. Yet my cynical mind thinks they played with it so the patient has to use it every 2 weeks forever instead of once every 2 to 3 months with reg. ketamine

Is there a test to measure a person's ability to introspect? Maybe there's a link between bad trips and the people who felt they gained/learned nothing? With the help of a good therapist they may be able to process the trip effectively.

@bremlquan

4 ай бұрын

Psychosis is not contingent upon introspection. It's simply more complicated than your question implies

@OG-MONK-NUMBER1

4 ай бұрын

@@bremlquan My question has nothing to do with psychosis. What on earth are you talking about? Do you have an educated answer to my question or do you simply not understand what it means?

@bremlquan

4 ай бұрын

Psychosis can be induced by psychedelics.

@bremlquan

4 ай бұрын

Surprised you couldn't extrapolate lol

@OG-MONK-NUMBER1

4 ай бұрын

@@bremlquan You're clearly not qualified to answer the question. Go back to sleep.

Life has side effects too. ;) But jeez have a look at DMT, numbers are down in almost every slide. Also in my experience DMT is the most comfortable drug I ever took.

@jeremyn4397

3 ай бұрын

Considering one of the biggest factors correlating to a traumatic experience is duration of the experience (if its bad), DMT having such a short duration has much less trouble with this factor. No matter how intense your DMT experience is, you know it wont last forever, unlike mushrooms or acid which can take over 12hrs...

Totta Petroskoin jälkeen tajusin etten halua olla lähellä ihmisiä

Great talk! I agree that much more work should be conducted in this field. I am a student at a Canadian university and just completed a research practicum on psilocybin and its effects on psychotherapy. It was life-changing! I think we can all agree that when compared to lists of risks for adverse effects of almost all other drugs, legal and illegal, psilocybin, at least, is on the very lowest end. I'll point to Johnson et al. 2018 Potential for Abuse; when quantifying risks, psilocybin is found dead last with a score of 6; in contrast, alcohol received a score of 72. I'm sure you've seen this study as it was completed on your side of the pond ;) I feel like a better list of adverse symptoms is needed as it was extremely rare that I came across any of the 75+ research papers I devoured for this project. Intense fear was likely the most prevalent, but with fewer numbers than you reported. I'm interested in seeing your data. I feel that both sides of the coin need to be shown, but it might be better received if the positive data was there to help contrast and balance. Mind you, I'm under the impression that when the positive effects are shown, it's hard for it to seem balanced at all. I did appreciate your talk and learned a few more things moving forward. Thank you. I'd love to share my practicum or at least the literary review with you if you're willing to read it. I primarily focused on the neurological aspects of psilocybin. For an idea about the cause of HPPD, I point to Timmermann et al. 2022 Human Brain Effects and Petri et al. 2014 Homological Scaffolds. Psilocybin elicits a blending of uni, multi, and trans modalities. That's probably why we "trip", as we are experiencing some form of drug-induced synesthesia mixed with some activation of our different brain areas. (Have you read the proposed experiment using risperidone to block the 5-HT2a receptors? They think it will prevent the trip, but I don't entirely agree). But, both studies showed increased brain connectivity across all typical (normally present) boundaries. With an increase in neuroplasticity and potential neurogenesis occurring, as well as the long-term connections in the brain that can remain, also elicited by psilocybin, one might suspect that some of these potentially longer-lasting neural connections between modalities could remain and cause re-emergence of psychedelic symptoms. It would be interesting to see if you could induce an HPPD episode while in an fMRI machine. I have never heard of the PTSD hypothesis for HPPD. It makes some sense. Some studies I read were treating PTSD with psilocybin with positive results. I think a first step in legalization should be secure places where one can ingest psychedelics legally but under supervision. I can see the risks of everyone gaining access to this drug without prior knowledge of what it does or how it works. Set and setting, as well as intention, are critical, not only in the studies I read but also in my personal use. I would not consider any of my trips to be "bad". I expect but do not always experience discomfort and some distress. Anxiety is almost always experienced, often manifesting as a "knot" or "ball" in the stomach. I've heard it described as "like a child walking home knowing they are going to get in big trouble when they finally get there", and I could relate to that description. To someone who has never felt extreme anxiety before, I can see how that could be scary. I feel I'm on the side of legalization, but not 100% complete access for everyone. I have seen what psilocybin can do at heroic doses, and many people are willing to do the same, but perhaps less responsibly. I feel that a slower, more regulated integration would need to occur, especially during the first initial years. But overall, there are too many benefits to ignore, and in the case of psilocybin, the benefits outweigh any known risks. The nature of how and why they were first classed as a Schedule I drug back in the 70s ( mostly propaganda) is explicit now to anyone who cares to look at the data being collected. The antidepressant and anxiolytic properties of psilocybin are desperately needed for those unresponsive to pharmaceuticals or unwilling to take drugs that possess side effects lists longer our arms. Thank you again for your talk, and I wish you luck with your Ph.D. I expect to end up in that area in the next few years. I hope I get a peek at that data!

Thanks for including the transcript. (I had to turn off the volume after 10 minutes because my brain won't allow me to tolerate vocal fry).

@randomdudefpv4927

3 ай бұрын

wth is vocal fry ;D

says who»? someone who never tried psychadelics

Unfortunately for sel reporting studies the number of participants needed to show a clear indicator is near 20,000 . These small cohorts must be taken with a large spoon of salt.

how can we look at this as a "study" rather than nothing more than just a package of verbal labels? The study is purely observational with a very small size. It's amusing to read "Risk factors" as if statistical analysis on a minuscule uncontrolled observational study can allow for isolating risk factors. Is this the new level achieved by psychology as a science nowadays?

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA.BETTER THAN SSRI'S...

Psychedelics pull the plug on the illusion created by local language. That’s why it can be disturbing. It’s a window into things that you may need to address. That’s all you need to know going into it. Some people should not be entertaining psychedelics until they are properly prepared.

Why would you discourage people from questioning consensus reality? Surely you're just reinforcing social conditioning thus leading the subject.

@exorbis9880

4 ай бұрын

^This

@bremlquan

4 ай бұрын

Because there's a difference between adaptive coping and derealization

drugs have side-effects, do not do drugs, i though that was common sense. i guess we do anything when we have screwed over our lives or others. so it is at best treating the symptoms.

Too little information given for the amount of time spent

And then you realize shes a psychology graduate 😅

Abby had a bad trip.

The worst side effect is that people become esoteric believers after it, going into all pseudosciences simultaneously

this lady should trip

@kenjones102

4 ай бұрын

Why would think she hasn't?

@alkeryn1700

4 ай бұрын

i know her irl and i'm pretty sure she already did and knows what she is talking about. even if you really think something is good and important, it is just as important not to lie about it and its possible downsides, the work she is doing is very important.

@triple_gem_shining

3 ай бұрын

Psychology graduates be like :

1. Starting with a massive straw man premise here that people are "trying to avoid info on negative effects." I don't buy it. 2. Vast majority of "long term" negative effects can be avoided with skillful facilitation of the session, as well as skillful integration work. 3. 26mg of MDMA is usually a very weak effect.

@igo9481

2 ай бұрын

"I don't buy it" proceeds to declare why any potential negative outcomes are the result of bad faith actors lmfao