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@shzarmai

2 жыл бұрын

Video on the Islamic World, the Inca Empire and Indian Civilisation, when???

@ivangutierrez3540

2 жыл бұрын

What if napoleons was never born?

@mrmatejator

2 жыл бұрын

@whatifalthist at around 1:43 you have part of the video cut out due to the wrong connection with AD segment

@SeanWinters

2 жыл бұрын

I do have to make a serious correction to make, Jesus would not be a hippie today. people of today are in general much more left-wing than people would have been in Christ's day. considering that jesus, god, does not change, Jesus would not be a hippie, instead he would be considered right wing. take a look at the sermon on the mount, Jesus doesn't make things easier for his followers, he makes things harder. while the Pharisees said that you should not commit adultery, Jesus says that you shouldn't even watch p***.

@onionfarmer3044

2 жыл бұрын

Since you see China as a major influence, have heard matt christman from chapo in assessment that the Chinese people will be in stage to create a system that will bring the rise to true communism?

A Chinese person once told me, he and many Chinese people view European history from medieval to early modern times like a European version of a warring states period that never ended with the Napoleon, Habsburgs, Charlemagne, Papacies and the like all being periodic European versions of Qin Shi Huang, that ultimately fail unlike in the east.

@bromomento1

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah pretty much jsjs

@joshuamitchell5018

2 жыл бұрын

@Maximal My thoughts are that it falls apart under scrutiny (of course) but it makes for an interesting look at an eastern pop-history perceptions for how some spitballing Chinese layman might frame the west after hearing a half hour summary of events in Europe from prehistory to now.

@greeneggsandhamsamiam6154

2 жыл бұрын

That's actually not a bad way of viewing it

@georgethompson1460

2 жыл бұрын

But europe was never united, not even under rome. And the Geography of europe lends itself to fragmentation.

@user-vf2jy6wy1w

2 жыл бұрын

@@georgethompson1460 True. Europe is filled with mountains, rivers and especially peninsulas which cause division.

> Advertises grammarly > Spells link wrong A true gigachad

The Chinese were so closed off, that when those British visited China in the 1790s, they had to use Latin to communicate with the Qianlong Emperor.

@mint8648

2 жыл бұрын

The Bhois of Orissa maintained minor maritime trade links with China. This is noted from the Manchu language memorials and edicts depicting contacts under the reign of Qing dynasty in China, when the Qianlong Emperor received a gift from the Brahmin (Ch. Polomen 婆羅門, Ma. Bolomen) envoy of a ruler whose Manchu name was Birakišora han of Utg’ali (Ch. Wutegali bilaqishila han 烏特噶里畢拉奇碩拉汗), who is described as a ruler in Eastern India. Hence referring to Birakisore Deva I of Khurda (1736-1793) who styled himself as Gajapati, the ruler of Utkala. Many of the gosains entering Tibet from China passed through his territory when visiting the Jagannath temple at Puri.[43] The reign of Tipu Sultan in Mysore saw Chinese technology used for sugar production,[44] and sandalwood was exported to China.[45]

@sinoroman

2 жыл бұрын

the qing, led by manchus, was very isolationist. the ming, led by han people, was somewhat isolationist but not really since many ports were still open- contact with the portuguese were frequent. people over-exaggerate when saying ming was completely isolationist. qing just look ming's policy to the extreme. the conquest of ming was a mistake

@nathanseper8738

2 жыл бұрын

@@mint8648 But they still blatantly ignored British innovations.

@miketacos9034

2 жыл бұрын

Fluent Latin nerds: "Finally! It's my time to shine!"

@nathanseper8738

2 жыл бұрын

@@miketacos9034 Latin in general was a very important language to learn in academia.

As a buddhist who once was a monk I say ur interpretation of traditional Buddhism was very accurate

@SuperYoman100

2 жыл бұрын

Hey, been to India? I've covered all the four most important sites in Buddha's life; Lumbini, Bodhgaya, Sarnath, Kushinagar. Consider this as a warm invitation, you must visit them all.

@reina4969

2 жыл бұрын

He gets that a lot when talking about stuff a 22 year old white nerd should know nothing about.

@gelasson

2 жыл бұрын

not Mahayana though

@aakashsingh5288

2 жыл бұрын

India was once a Buddhist majority country but in order to fight against rising violent Islam, Hinduism is needed because of military angle in it Now Buddhist value in this era reviewing again

@axcel9128

2 жыл бұрын

@@aakashsingh5288 Buddhism can be very militaristic

I would love a similar episode on Southeast Asia

@yolo8283

2 жыл бұрын

@MR map did it not though? i feel like it’s easy to overlook southeast asia especially since it’s squished between arguably the two most prosperous civilizations in history.

@countvronsky4025

2 жыл бұрын

@MR map That may be true, but it would be an interesting watch nevertheless, just because SE Asia is so rarely a topic you hear discussed.

@charlesmadre5568

2 жыл бұрын

@MR map It also just isn't a single civilization. At the very least it's 2. Indochina and the "Malay World" to use old terms.

@conserva-chan2735

2 жыл бұрын

@@charlesmadre5568 that's why it is so interesting but also rarely discussed outside of colonization or the Cold War. I think he could do a great job.

@WhatifAltHist

2 жыл бұрын

Working on it

Very happy about the explosion in Chinese content. Its the most alien civilization on our planet from a western perspective. Id like to highlight as others have, the 1:42 glitch

@KingR3aper

2 жыл бұрын

Which is honestly a testament to China's poor Softpower influence compared to say their East Asian neighbors Japan and SK - as culturally in a social visiting/business context, I found Chinese folks were much more culturally easier to understand and get along with than in Japan/SK in terms of manners, body language, personality, humor, schedules etc (from a social perspective). We think we know more about Japan because of media but the average Chinese persons personality/outlook is much closer aligned with someone from the US . In fact, Japanese media has done *more* for Chinese history and media than China itself (Through Anime/Video Games).

@GL-iv4rw

2 жыл бұрын

@@KingR3aper like Dynasty Warriors? I'm sure there are also great Chinese media for instance I think their music is better, the games are on par and the animation is catching up

@franciscoflamenco

2 жыл бұрын

King Reap3r I completely agree with you. This is a topic I've been thinking about a lot for a long time. Just the fact that people know about quintessential Chinese culture elements, such as, for example, Kanji, Go or Koto, through the Japanese versions and the Japanese names of three elements goes on to show how much Chinese culture has been exported more through Japan than through China itself. And for the topic in question, I disagree with OP. If anything, I think East Asian culture is relatively familiar to Western culture, in comparison to, say, Indian culture. It might be a bias because I've been immersed in East Asia culture all my life but there'd have to be a very good argument to convince me of that.

@Hoopsnake

2 жыл бұрын

@@GL-iv4rw There may be great Chinese Media, but Japan and South Korea have a much easier time accessing the world. While it might be economically Capitalist, China is still very much Communist in the sense that it has a government that tries to take the lead on culture and meddle. Countries like that tend to have pretty low amounts of soft power - think of the Soviet Union. Heck you could make a strong argument that tiny Hong Kong historically had more of an impact on current world culture than all of mainland China.

@GL-iv4rw

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hoopsnake They mostly use pop culture and modern mass consumerism as "soft power". China don't do that and they usually portray authentic traditional culture (ofc that does not mean being outdated, low-tech or out of touch with modern reality). It's why Chinese key tourist spots are historical sites/Beijing opera/scenic spots etc while Japanese/Korean ones are shopping areas/bars/restaurants etc. Now it's understandable if you like the latter and not the former

(Pt. 1) I'm Chinese, and while this video is to a certain extent correct, there are a few errors that I have to point out (I am writing this as I watch the vid): 1. No mention of the Xia Dynasty, which in my opinion certainly existed. 2. The Shang did not create the modern Chinese theological system, the Zhou did. They changed it from a monotheistic religion worshipping 上帝 alone headed by the Shang King, to a system headed by the King of the Zhou as 天子 (Son of Heaven) worshipping 上帝 as well, but introducing the abstract concept of 天, or heaven, with 上帝 in charge of 天. Notably, when the power of the Zhou Dynasty waned, this made Chinese religion less structured, leading to China becoming a less dogmatic society than many of its contemporaries, leading to great religious diversity, the development of a large number of religious sects, the large scale acceptance of foreign religions, the deification of many "great men" (placing them in 天), and a history of religious tolerance and syncretism. I myself am a Christian with a Confucian philosophical outlook and Taoist ancestors and metaphysical view, who calls God 上帝. 3. The Zhou WERE NOT TURKIC. The Zhou were a Chinese tribe living in the Guanzhong area, west of the Shang heartland in the Central Plains, and were certainly influenced to a certain extent by western nomadic tribes, but then they were almost certainly Chinese. The Zhou Dynasty, through the Rites of Zhou, created much of what is considered Chinese culture and philosophy as we know it today, and Shang culture, by comparison, is mostly unrecognisable. In addition, China already had chariots, likely through prior contact with the Tocharians, before the Zhou took over. 4. The Zhou did not create the classic Chinese feudal system, or 封建, they simply built upon the previous Shang administrative system. In addition, the Zhou split apart into a large number of warring fiefdoms because of a degrading and increasingly weakened central administration in the royal demesne of 鎬京, culminating in the sacking of the city by Western barbarians and the fracturing of the state into its local fiefdoms. 5. Confucianism never was a religion. Confucius himself repeatedly denied being a divine being (or prophet) and said to his followers that they should ask someone else for the mysteries of the afterlife. However, as stated earlier, the Chinese developed a tradition of deifying various "great men", and Confucius was himself deified to a certain extent. 6. There were two people who led the rebellion against the Qin Empire, 陳勝 and 吳廣, not one. 7. The Qin did not create Legalism, they adopted it from various Legalist scholars and philosophers that were sojourning around China at the time. The State of Han also adopted Legalism, for example. 8. Being "down to earth" and "reasonable" declined slightly after the late Southern Song Dynasty and the advent of Cheng-Zhu Neoconfucianism to the mainstream, after which the imperial exams during the Ming and Qing became a quagmire of abstract philosophical thought instead of focusing on government policy or even simply regarding practical solutions for actual problems. 9. China did create a broad metaphysical view of the world during the Song Dynasty in form of Neoconfucianism, which attempted to fuse Taoist and Buddhist metaphysical concepts with Confucian ethics in order to create a full philosophy. However, this was done very late, only 1000 years ago, and there never was one fully agreed upon school of Neoconfucianism (the Cheng-Shu School became the Orthodox school, however, this was never fully accepted and various opposing schools emerged throughout the Song, Ming and Qing Dynasties), hence why the Chinese are very superstitious. 10. Buddhism did not sell itself only amongst the peasants. Buddhism became popular in Chinese society during the Northern and Southern Dynasties period, which was one of the closest things to a Chinese dark age. This was a time when China was divided into two, a south ruled by a series of weak and short-lived empires controlled by the native Han Chinese and dominated by powerful aristocratic clans, and a north ruled by a mix of Han Chinese and nomadic barbarian warlord states, through which a powerful unified empire would sometimes emerge. Buddhism was adopted by the aristocrats and common people alike during this difficult time, in fact, one of China's longest-ruling emperors, Emperor Wu of the Southern Liang, repeatedly tried to abandon his duties as Emperor to become a Buddhist monk.

@hovoag5169

2 жыл бұрын

I kind of tried to google on zhou nomads and found nothing. It's interesting why he called them turkic or nomads. I hope, Whatifalthist will answer your comment

@connormcgee4711

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the clarification. I suspect Whatifalthist neglected the Xia due to his seemingly more limited knowledge of earlier dynasties, so he didn't feel confident enough to dispute the conflicting experts. Although not natively Chinese nor fluent, I have spent a great deal of time at my university on the search for decent translations, summaries, and reviews of records from the earlier periods of Chinese history and they are much harder to get ahold of. It's already more limited due to the time gap between now and then, but it gets exacerbated in translated texts. Not to excuse his errors, but that may be the reason why there are all those mixups during the Shang and Zhou, I could be wrong though. Thanks for the information, it's greatly appreciated! Also to what extent do you think Confucius's ideas were accurately followed? Did the Song and Ming actually use his ideas, or just appropriate them? My impression was that the Han dynasty actually followed many of the doctrines but I could be wrong so I was curious.

@Thecognoscenti_1

2 жыл бұрын

(Pt. 2) 11. It is true that there have been relatively few wars of religion or campaigns of religious persecution in China, but when they did occur, they were extremely bloody and horrendous. Examples include the Yellow Turban Rebellion (Taoist), Tang Wuzong's great persecution (anti-Buddhist), the White Lotus Rebellion (Manichaean), the Taiping Rebellion ("Christian"), etc. However, the large death toll from these various wars and persecutions may have had more to do with the enormity of China's population and Confucianism's social cohesion, creating massive cohesion within both the followers and opponents of these religious sects. 12. The Han did not expand China to its largest extent, the Tang did. The Tang Dynasty, which was the last major unified dynasty to truly value the military and treat the military as a respectable and prestigious institution, conquered west all the way to the Aral Sea and Persia, east to all of Korea (for two years until Silla rebelled), and north, making Lake Baikal a lake completely surrounded by Chinese territory (at least, on paper). The Tang destroyed the Turkic Khaganates, and there were even plans to conquer Persia from the Ummayads and restore the Sasanian Dynasty (which fled to the Tang after the Muslim conquest) there as a protectorate, although this was later scrapped. 13. One reason why Tang China was so unique, successful, and dynamic was that it was perhaps the only dynasty that had a mixed ruling class, instead of having a purely bureaucratic government. Between the Three Kingdoms Period and the Tang Dynasty, the constant war and chaos meant that the aristocracy, and later the military, had supremacy, but then the creation of the imperial examination system during the Sui allowed the creation of a bureaucratic class that shared power with the military during the Tang. However, it was always unstable, as the power of the military, in addition to the chaotic Ottoman-esque succession crises every time a Tang Emperor died, meant that there were constant coups by the military, and this system started to break down after the An Lushan rebellion, after which regional militaries started to gain increasing amounts of regional power over the central government, which in turn caused warlordism, the collapse of the Tang, and the destruction of the bureaucracy. Thus, after the formation of the Song Dynasty, the imperial examination system was reintroduced with renewed vigour, while the military aristocracy faded into nonexistence, after which the military was suppressed, which created a monolithic bureaucratic ruling class. Subsequent attempts to reestablish a military ruling class in China, like the Song Dynasty during the wars against the Jurchens, the rule of the Yongle Emperor during the Ming, the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, and the warlordism of the 1920s, also failed to achieve long-term stability and fell apart, or were crushed by the bureaucrats. 14. The Chinese bureaucracy only became conservative and unimaginative from the Ming Dynasty onwards. The Song Dynasty, which was the peak of Chinese intellectual thought, had imperial examinations which included mathematics and poetry and produced geniuses like Ouyang Xiu, Shen Kuo, Sima Guang, Wang Anshi, Su Shi, etc, who would often have a bureaucratic day job and a side job, and as a result, polymaths like Shen Kuo emerged, and a technological golden age also occurred during the Song partially for this reason. However, as mentioned earlier, after the advent of Cheng-Zhu Neoconfucianism to the mainstream and Zhu Xi's interpretation of Confucianism becoming the material for imperial exams, in addition to the creation of the Eight-Legged exam by Wang Anshi, which became the exam's structure starting from the Ming Dynasty, the Chinese bureaucracy became conservative and unimaginative. 15. Other social groups were not constantly oppressed. The reason for the Song Dynasty's dynamism was because it was the least domineering of the dynasties, which meant it was the only dynasty to not oppress the towns and merchants in any meaningful way, allowing for the development of a massive and very strong urban commercial sector. This, in addition to the introduction of rice from Champa and the development of new ploughs starting an agricultural revolution, allowed the population to explode, starting an economic revolution in turn, making the Song dynasty the richest country on Earth by GDP per capita at the time, and the richest Chinese dynasty ever. As for the military, I already explained the success of the Tang earlier in that regard. Then again, the bureaucrats were still the dominant social class throughout these eras. 16. The military was only starved starting from the Song Dynasty onwards. Previous conquests of parts of China by nomads (as China was never fully conquered by nomads before the Mongols) were caused by horrific civil wars in China, which severely weakened the state and allowed for an easy invasion by the barbarians. The oppression of the military by the Song was an overreaction to the fracturing and warlordism of China post-Tang, but even so, the Khitans never conquered south of Tianjin, the Jurchens were stopped at the Huai River, and the Mongols only conquered China after 45 years of constant bloody war. As for the Manchu conquest of China, that was the result of a series of massive peasant rebellions during the Little Ice Age of the late Ming, which ended up overthrowing the Ming Dynasty (in northern China, at least) and severely weakening China as a whole. 17. China was only fully conquered by nomads/barbarians 2.5 times. The 0.5th time was by the Sui, which was an ethnic Chinese polity, but the Sui Dynasty was a successor state of the Northern Wei, which was ruled by the Xianbei Barbarians. The 1.5th time was by the Mongol Yuan, and the 2.5th time was by the Manchu Qing. 18. (15:36) Putting a picture of the Tang Dynasty while mentioning alliances with other nomadic peoples is not entirely accurate. The Tang, as mentioned earlier, destroyed the Turkic Khaganates and conquered the steppe, however, it lost control of present-day Mongolia when Wu Zetian took power, during which a descendent of the Ashina Dynasty, which ruled the Turkic Khaganates, created a second Turkic Khaganate. After this, the Tang indeed had to use alliances with other nomads to control the northern nomads. The Han also had to use alliances and concessions with the Xiongnu before that proved untenable and Han Wudi started his destruction of the Xiongnu. 19. The Dark Age of Barbarian Invasions, which included the aforementioned Northern and Southern Dynasties period, was from between the early-4th to late 6th centuries, not 350-700 AD, and they never fully conquered China. In addition, as mentioned earlier, I also do not consider the Zhou to be nomadic barbarians. The Khitan Liao and Jurchen Jin also never fully conquered China. 20. The barbarian descendants did establish themselves as nobles in China, but most nobles in China around the time of the Tang and Sui were still Chinese. Although a disproportionate amount of nobles from northern China were barbarian descendants, and northern Han Chinese nobles did frequently intermarry with the barbarian descended nobles, Northern Chinese nobles as a whole were still mostly Han Chinese, while Southern Chinese nobles were fully Han Chinese (I am writing this as a descendant of Southern Chinese nobles who lived in Northern China during this era). However, the nobles of barbarian descent Sinicised by the time of the Sui and based their identity on being Chinese and being part of the Chinese nobility, alongside their fellow nobles of Han Chinese descent.

@johnl.7754

2 жыл бұрын

Wow you do know Chinese history. I don’t know even as much as the video creator but it does seem like most of Chinese traditions has been lost (for better or worse) after CCP took over from living there over ten years recently.

@ten_tego_teges

2 жыл бұрын

>I myself am a Christian with a Confucian philosophical outlook and Taoist ancestors and metaphysical view, who calls God 上帝. I find this fascinating as a Christian from Europe, I would love to read more into how Christianity is adapted in non-European cultures. It's alike a whole different theological/philosophical world waiting to be discovered. I desperately dream to move to China for some time and properly dive into the culture. Thank you for your comment :)

8:27 The Qin didn't form Legalism, they adopted it. During the Spring and Autumn Period, Legalism was just one of the Hundred Schools of Thought that were spread all around China, competiting for supremacy. Confucianism and Mohism are the other two more well known ideologies created during that era. 27:50 the Taiping Rebellion wasn't a Christian Rebellion nor supported/influenced by the Americans since they were also having their civil war, the Taiping Rebellion was a Hakka/Han Rebellion that misinterpreted the Bible and didn't have any support of the West so much that the West helped the Qing defeat them.

@tastyfalcon1788

2 жыл бұрын

You could definitely make the argument that the Taiping religion was 'Christian' since they used the Bible and believed in Jesus (kinda)

@sickbubble6059

2 жыл бұрын

I think he may have meant Influenced in thought 🤔

@sinoroman

2 жыл бұрын

the west supported qing because they rather have a weak state (qing dynasty) than a potentially strong state (heavenly dynasty). not entirely incorrect to call taiping a "christian rebellion"

@_gold_eye_2656

2 жыл бұрын

They were supported by independently acting US mercenaries. But no they weren’t largely supported by western countries

@csmth96

2 жыл бұрын

Strongly agree with the second part. That is revolt against their Qing conqueror (foreign occupation) by mixing Jesus with local belief. The local belief is the major factor why a huge army can be raised. Jesus alone cannot appeal to many average men except the inner core of Taiping.

This is the first time I've ever heard someone call the Zhou Turkic. The Zhou people were distinct from those of the Shang, but they were a highly-related Sinitic group, certainly not a Turkic one.

@alanbudde8560

Жыл бұрын

I know western China is turkic but there seems to be research saying those people came from the east? However this also seems to indicate the transition happened hundreds of years before the Zhou period. Perhaps thats his confusion. "The origins of the Turkic peoples has been a topic of much discussion.[35] Recent linguistic, genetic and archaeological evidence suggests that the earliest Turkic peoples descended from agricultural communities in Northeastern China and wider Northeast Asia, who moved westwards into Mongolia in the late 3rd millennium BC, where they adopted a pastoral lifestyle."

@absolutedevin1380

4 ай бұрын

Fun Fact: Northern Chinese people from cities like Harbin or Peking have more Turkic genetics in them than the Turks of Turkey.

I took an East Asian cultures class in college and it surprised me that Confucianism was not really a religion, but more of a moral framework that could probably be plopped down and used in any society. What we usually refer to Confucianism today seems to just be the Ancient Chinese religion (ancestor worship) preserved to the modern day.

@royhuang9715

Жыл бұрын

The religion you referring to is called Taoism. I remember high school history book called Confucianism a religion probably because people who wrote it thinks kids are dumb and they couldn’t understand Confucian philosophy or what it really is.

@user-xz6ft7xf9o

Ай бұрын

现在还在推崇😂，多数中国人是不信宗教的

@marcv2648

6 күн бұрын

Confucianism sits squarely in the category of philosophy. Just as neo-Platonism is a philosophy.

3:43 >"If you look at genetic maps, you see Europe is a North-South gradient" > *genetic map clearly shows an East-West gradient *

“The earth is black in front of the cliff, and no orchids grow. Creepers crawl in the brown mud by the path. Where did the birds of yesterday fly? To what other mountain did the animals go? Leopards and pythons dislike this ruined spot; Cranes and snakes avoid the desolation. My criminal thoughts of those days past Brought on the disaster of today.” ― Wu Cheng'en,

@senorbaguette2269

2 жыл бұрын

Creeper? Aww man…

@justinaccurate347

2 жыл бұрын

my bals hrut - Taoyen Heigui

@Shagamaw-100

2 жыл бұрын

Wise words.

@GabrielEddy

2 жыл бұрын

Hence ye endure the sins of your fathers.

@Shrey_Shrek

2 жыл бұрын

​@@senorbaguette2269 🎵🎵🎵🎵🎵

One of the few KZreadrs that actually studies entire world civilizations, now that's impressive.

@reubennelson4086

2 жыл бұрын

He's really bad at it lmao

@mj72633

2 жыл бұрын

@@reubennelson4086 algorithmic history

@ugiswrong

2 жыл бұрын

He’s above average

@reubennelson4086

2 жыл бұрын

@@ugiswrong that is an incredibly low bar

@gastonlinares5593

2 жыл бұрын

@@reubennelson4086 Sure, and you are... Who?

Alot of chinese based content lately love it

@GSG-io8zp

2 жыл бұрын

Based

@scholaroftheworldalternatehist

2 жыл бұрын

China is just another paper tiger. All they can do is copy Western tech and their army hasn't fought a major conflict for a human lifetime

@sinoroman

2 жыл бұрын

it is cool but the details he lay out are not good

@bonkus4073

2 жыл бұрын

like how fools comment 8 minutes into the 30 minute video , like they rly do be knowing what’s going and submit BaSeD without further elaboration

@cosmoray9750

2 жыл бұрын

Former Australian ambassador John Lander. kzread.info/dash/bejne/aZ-czZaIiLuYobA.html The fiction of the China ‘threat’

10:03 Spring festival Season Taboos "No killing (including animals): it brings misfortune" But you can kill your neighbor right after spring festival, no misfortune at all!

@yuluoxianjun

2 жыл бұрын

As a Chinese,i say yes

The fact that Chinese civil wars tend to be the most deadly events in history actually speaks for the strength of Chinese states in the past. The nation can rise up from ashes of the previous dynasty so quickly that the land reaches maximum population capacity in a century or two. The nation gets overpopulated so often that natural disasters tend to lead to massive famines followed by very deadly civil wars. By comparison Europe has often failed to reach the full potential of population capacity due to constant warring and plague. So it's not that European monarchs are less tyrannical or people less brutal, they just rarely each the level of overpopulation that can cause massive scale deaths. In other words, Chinese empires have a history of very rapid development following collapse of the previous government, hence their ability to 'fight on the Moon'. Their 21st Century economic miracle is not alien concept to them. But in the end their upper limit is dictated by geography. In the past it's farm yields and in the case of CCP China this limit is oil production and oceanic control. The Belt and Road and SCS military bases are exactly addressing these problems, but haven't worked well yet.

@michaelweston409

2 жыл бұрын

That's why China has the most potential to be the most powerful empire the world has ever known. It's just foreign intervention & enemies abroad so far that have prevented china from rising to it's full peak potential. Though in 2022 China is rapidly taking Americas place , probably by 2030 they'll be #1

@FelipeJaquez

Жыл бұрын

Human ants Millions die but they still build a new mound the next day

@kryts27

Жыл бұрын

It's actually catastrophic. The only thing uniting China is the size of the country. It's demographics are collapsing, and Western and other East Asian businesses are leaving China in droves, sucking away production, investment and employment. Tens of millions of Chinese are now dying from unchecked Covid infection. The soils of China are overpolluted with similar problems with the streams, lakes and ground water. China may now have the most polluted agricultural lands on Earth. This is a double punch if I ever saw one historically. Furthermore, the CCP have largely brought this state of affairs upon the Chinese and themselves. I doubt that the CCP can survive much longer under these horrendous circumstances,

@John3.36

Жыл бұрын

Polygamy

@nathanseper8738

Жыл бұрын

That’s pretty scary actually.

Its insane how China has somehow endured at least 3 WW2 inside its own border: Mongol invasions, Taiping rebellion and Mao.

@llamaboss1434

2 жыл бұрын

How exactly did it endure those events? Each event represents a pretty major continuity break for governance and philosophy? Endure in that basically the same people and peasantry persisted throughout all that awfulness? If that's the argument all polities "endure" everything and it's not amazing. Like India, its current MACRO unification of what was once many states, is a totally new concept.

@Emilechen

2 жыл бұрын

or we can say, Mongols Manchurians and Japaneses fail to build an universal empirr which last, once they lost their empire,it is impossible to rebuildq again, but China did it,

@scholaroftheworldalternatehist

2 жыл бұрын

Just because they have so many people. If they had a smaller population they would most likely end up like their counterparts in Siberia, pushed out and replaced by external powers.

@zhonghuaxiansheng

2 жыл бұрын

and *actual ww2*

@03mai67

2 жыл бұрын

During Mao’s era, from 1949 to 1976, China gained 300 millions inhabitants, put an end to endemic famines, built an industrial base, improved literacy. Compare this to what China was when Mao was born in 1893.

I really liked that you put the bibliography, I always wondered what are your references so I could read then. Thank You!

Small quibble other commentators seem to have missed: Buddhism arrived in China by the Han dynasty, not the Tang. However, under the Tang dynasty Buddhism underwent radical changes in Chinese culture that make it the form Chinese Buddhism is today.

Confucius was the arch-conservative, more than Plato, seeking to restore the ancient Chinese religion that he thought was coming undone.

As a "slow oldie" I must say this was one of your best videos - not too fast, mostly clear diction and a healthy dose of respectful and, dare I say humble, commentary. Keep up the good work!

It's amazing how governments constantly try to stifle progress for their own good. How have we still never ended this.

@johnl.7754

2 жыл бұрын

Governments even today in Democratic countries try and stay in power by favoring backward policies that helps them politically

@tanmaykumar4561

2 жыл бұрын

Because this "progress" itself leads to a new government. Only way to rid yourself of government is to rid yourself of society.

@Gergentine

2 жыл бұрын

@@tanmaykumar4561 i don't think having no government is good either. Just wish we had some competence.

@user-xi5ej4ox5s

2 жыл бұрын

@@Gergentine FUCK GOVERNMENTS!!! GLORY TO ANARCHY!!!

@ephennell4ever

2 жыл бұрын

Governments will *always* seek to expand their control - it's inherent, as well expect an apex predator to stop killing things! The best we can do is keep down, as much as possible, their _ability_ to expand their control. A free-enterprise system is the best we've yet discovered ... a society in which there is constant technological change tends to make real dominating control *extremely* difficult! This is why the CCP tries to make sure any new tech is *first* used for _it's_ purposes!

8:20 "The Qin were the Prussians of Ancient world" This is accurate since the Qin Army has the same color as the Prussians..their Soldier's are same in Black color and their Banner were in color Black mostly

The Fall of Civilizations Podcast did a great job explaining how well-mobilized the Han could be, getting the society to match the Huns in horses under a single Emperor.

One of the main drivers of the individualism in the West was the Catholic Church, that discouraged close (cousin) marriages and gradually broke big familial clans. Exceptions were made for some of the noble houses. This, combined with the much more difficult geography in Europe, caused the historical evolution between the two ends of the Eurasian landmass to develop very different social and political cultures.

The Prussian weren't Totalitarian, just very militarist.

@apc9714

2 жыл бұрын

Yes you are right. I think he knows that

@sinoroman

2 жыл бұрын

does he *Really* know tho?

@SwornInvictus

Жыл бұрын

They were the first European nation to force mandatory education. They were totalitarian for the time and region.

@zyanego3170

Жыл бұрын

@@SwornInvictus No.

That's a very interesting summary of Chinese history and it's entertaining as well :)

@user-qg8mp7vm5l

9 күн бұрын

This KZread is basically a closed loop of errors and nonsense. I found it funny when he said that Chinese culture is conservative. Not to mention the Qing Dynasty, even today in the 21st century, men and women in the Middle East cannot sit in the same car, and Malaysia and Indonesia will still beat to death adulterers and homosexuals. The fact is that the more powerful a country is, the more likely it is to accept foreign cultures. When a government is weak internationally, its culture will naturally become conservative. This is what happens to any country. He said that China is totalitarian, which I find even funnier. No matter how you spread out the world map, as long as it is not those more than 30 developed countries, which other countries have people with a much higher living standard than the Chinese? Don't listen to the Communist Party's propaganda, China is not a paradise. But don’t listen to what the Western media says about China being a hell. How good China is only depends on who you compare it with. If I had the opportunity to be born in Europe and the United States, I would never be Chinese. But if I had been born in India, I would have started to believe in the Communist Party.

Calling Zhou “Turks” is the most cursed thing I’ve ever heard. No. The Zhou dynasty wasn’t Turkic. I know you are a Turkophile but this is just a new level.

@joelwu2254

2 жыл бұрын

This guy and his turk loving... Nek minit he will be calling Julius Caesar a turk.

@MicMixAniTuber

2 жыл бұрын

Whatifalhist might be a literal Turk secret agent or something at this point. That or he has some sexual fetish for this culture. In a previous video of his he predicted that in the near future there will be a new Turk empire spanning from Central Europe to Africa and Central Asia conquering not one not two but 35 nations. This guy has lost me with the Turk propaganda.

@miketacos9034

2 жыл бұрын

The Neo-Ottoman Empire will reach all the way to its heartland in northern China!

@flowertowerrr

2 жыл бұрын

We are all Africans mannn

@danshakuimo

2 жыл бұрын

@@flowertowerrr I mean all non-black people are just lost African tribes after all

Looking forward to watching this with a snack and a drink. Keep the content coming your videos are always a great watch!

About Daoism: I think its focus switched from spirituality to rituals as it become more popular. A change that many people (including me) consider being negative.

@dragasinbrankovic

Жыл бұрын

Well, I am from Balkans and Daoist energy exercises allowed me to rake charge of my emotions and psychological well being, also to last as long as I want during sex. So I am basically on spiritual mode of it as it seems.

@mrtrollnator123

Жыл бұрын

@@dragasinbrankovic awesome

Very informative and excellent video. I minored in East Asian Buddhist art history in college and you explained very well the differences between Indian Buddhism and Mahayana Buddhism (which of course had long been separated from its original birthplace). There's actually a very interesting book we read in one class called "The Scientific Buddha." It talks about how Westerners discovered Buddhism via Indian relics. They didn't see the mysticism or rituals of those practicing Buddhism in East Asia (or anywhere else) - they encountered texts in a country that hadn't actively practiced the religion in centuries. This led to a Western understanding of Buddhism as a "scientific" or "philosophical" worldview, a misunderstanding still maintained in our culture today. This disconnect was born out of European distaste for non-Christian religious practices. And like you said, East Asian Buddhism (primarily Mahayana) was an amalgamation of local folk religion, Buddhist deities, and everything picked up along the way. It's also worth mentioning that high level monks were the ones reading sutras, not the average person in medieval China. Like you said, the superstitious and mystical inclinations of that society were added, and the sutras didn't matter as much and that was OK. Hopefully that makes sense LOL Anyway, great video, if anyone is interested in the introduction of Buddhism to the West you should check out that book! There's so much to learn and I by no means am an expert, just wanted to share my thoughts on one little tidbit :-)

@albertito77

Жыл бұрын

To further what you're saying, Buddhism is an extremely versatile religion that allows prior religious practices to continue, at least amongst the non-monks. I know a devout Buddhist who will also make offerings at Hindu temples, for eg. (He says there are also Buddhist temples to these Hindu deities but whether the temple of operated by Buddhists or Hindus hardly matters to him). Perhaps the original Buddha conceived of non-monks in an ideal Buddhist society continuing along as Hindus without much change

@AJAYSINGH-ns1vv

Жыл бұрын

Great and intellectual comment but I must add some things to it that buddhism is wrongly translated by europians from Original Indian sources which provides a different view of it.

All the understanding civilizations videos on this channel are great. I always love getting to watch them!

Just a comment on the screen where you showed "Ying" and Yang": First, it is "Yin" and not "Ying". Also, Yin is the female / darker side, while Yang is the male / brighter side. Most of the rest of your analysis seems pretty interesting and factual, but you did mix those two concepts up (around 7:50 in)

@WhatifAltHist

2 жыл бұрын

The translations for Chinese are extremely imprecise, between Peking, Peiping, Beijing all describing the same city or Zhao, Chao, Cao, Cho all being the same

@deanchur

2 жыл бұрын

@@WhatifAltHist Sichuan and Szechuan as well, which annoys me to no end since I lived in Chengdu (Sichuan) for a while.

@henrytsang5200

2 жыл бұрын

@@WhatifAltHist if it helps, there are I beehive two main ways to write Chinese with English, you either use official pinyin (I use this) or you use a different way (I have no idea how it works, apparently there’s a whole other system) that many historians use. That’s how you get differences in translation. Beijing is the pinyin way, while Peking is the other way. Peiping was the previous name for Beijing used in the first half of the 20th century. With thousands of years of history, these cities switch names a lot of times

@buddermonger2000

2 жыл бұрын

@@henrytsang5200 Honestly it sounds like "Peking" was actually a variant of "Peiping" because we've a historical event called I think "15 days at Peking" around the turn of the century which then further adds to the confusion.

@boobah5643

2 жыл бұрын

@@henrytsang5200 Historians tend to use the other transliteration because that's what all the histories use. Hanyu pinyin is specifically a CCP project of the 50s; the most common older system was the Wade-Giles system created a century earlier. Worth pointing out that pinyin isn't used because it's 'better,' it's used because the CCP says it's used, and because the CCP has weight to throw around, it was adopted by ISO and the UN. The RoC has toyed with making it official, too, but large parts of the country were recalcitrant, seeing it as CCP cultural imperialism.

Great video, you are really good at summarizing things accuratly

The point you made about Chinese Buddhism being basically the opposite of what Buddha taught, while also noting that historically most forms of Christianity are basically the opposite of what Jesus taught is pretty fascinating. I think it's interesting that in recent decades, a lot of Westerners express interest in Buddhism, members of my own family and friend group included, while shunning Christianity for all it's problematic manifestations in history, society and culture. This always confused me, because when I think of Christianity, I focus primarily on Jesus and his teachings, but to most Westerners, it is difficult for them to divorce Christianity from its cultural and historical contexts, and so they don't just think about Jesus when they hear "Christianity," but also about the Crusades, colonialism, residential schools, abuse scandals, etc. When they hear "Buddhism" on the other hand, because they are not immersed in the cultural and historical contexts of how Buddhism manifests in Chinese or other societies, they have an idealized image of what Buddhism is based solely on what the Buddha taught, and not how Buddhism has been expressed in cultures and societies throughout history. It's kind of ironic, but also fascinating and makes a lot of sense, that oftentimes the people who are most "puritanical" about following the original teachings of Buddha without cultural and religious syncretism with folk religions and superstition, are Western converts to Buddhism. Likewise, I would argue that the Christian community which does the best job at emulating Christ's example in the modern world is the Chinese church, perhaps for similar reasons--because they don't carry the weight of historical and cultural baggage as "historically Christian" cultures in other parts of the world. The underground Chinese church is known for being a very grass-roots, egalitarian movement, with more female leaders in the movement than men, and are strictly opposed to mixing their faith with politics. There is a quote from a Punjabi Christian missionary named Sadhu Sundar Singh which I think perfectly captures this: "While sitting on the bank of a river one day, I picked up a solid round stone from the water and broke it open. It was perfectly dry in spite of the fact that it had been immersed in water for centuries. The same is true of many people in the Western world. For centuries they have been surrounded by Christianity; they live immersed in the waters of its benefits. And yet it has not penetrated their hearts; they do not love it. The fault is not with Christianity, but in men's hearts, which have been hardened by materialism and intellectualism."

@SeanWinters

2 жыл бұрын

I'm going to disagree with you heavily on the Christianity thing, especially in the United States. There are two types of incorrect christianity, if you will, in the west. The first one is the prosperity wealth preachers. Those are obviously not going by the teachings of Christ. The other side is on the opposite side, the progressive christians, who refuse to denounce any form of sin and stray from actual biblical theology as far as possible. Both of these groups disregard the Bible and Jesus's teachings as well as the teachings of Christ through the apostles. However, both of these forms of Christianity are laughed at and shamed by the majority of Christendom. The idea of the Southern Baptist is much closer to the teaching of Jesus than the Joel osteen crowd, and they follow the teachings of Christ much more than Kenneth Copeland. These forms of Christianity are not regarded as really Christian, even while protestants Catholics and orthodox can all get along with one another, the prosperity gospel and progressives are both in their own camp and regarded as oddities. Perhaps you're speaking on the people who are only considered culturally Christian, "easter Christians", but for any active Christian, we view Christianity as it is, not through modern contexts

@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986

2 жыл бұрын

@@SeanWinters I actually think you’ve proven OP point that lots of so called ‘christians’ today lack belief in the core tenets of the faith ie the teachings of Jesus. They instead choose to superimpose their own ideologies onto “their” Christianity as opposed to the other way round of their religion affecting their views on other matters. The examples you mentioned of Christian’s that push capitalistic materialism or progressive social values are in fact people who have been so ensconced in the veil of a Christian culture that they do not actually understand it or appreciate it and thus choose to arbitrarily appoint their faith onto whatever other beliefs they have regarding politics, economics, society etc. Whereas a ‘foreign’ religion such as Buddhism has never had a cultural grip on westerners and defined how they see the world like it has in many parts of Asia so the vast majority of westerners can only be outsiders looking in on Buddhism looking to its authority figures (namely Gautama aka the ‘Buddha’ himself) to understand something they’ve never encountered properly. Likewise the reverse exists for any easterner looking at Christianity and looking to its spiritual guider Jesus to understand it whereas their own experience of Buddhism is more ephemeral and human in the same way Christianity is to westerners. People in Asia also impose their own ideology onto Buddhism in the same way people in Europe or NA do with Christianity

@tianming4964

2 жыл бұрын

Yes I mean cultural Christians. I would argue that most people (at least in Western countries) who call themselves Christian are not actually Christians. For example, around 60-70% of people in Western Europe identify as Christians, and yet according to Pew Research only 14% of Swedes, 27% of French, 28% of Germans, and 29% of Brits actually believe in the Christian God. Yet those countries are still see themselves as Christian countries and are thought of as Christian countries by the rest of the world, even if more people in somewhere like China believe in the Christian God and actually go to church on a regular basis.

@tianming4964

2 жыл бұрын

Also, even if the majority of Christendom rejects concepts such as progressive theology or prosperity gospel, I would still argue that historically the majority of Christendom has also acted in an un-Christlike manner. For instance the church tying itself to the state--Catholicism and Orthodoxy, Anglicanism and Lutheranism, for example. This was rejected to an extent in America, but even then many American Christians (whether right or left) put their politics above their faith. I would argue that the schisms (whether between the Roman and Persian, Catholic and Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant churches) were primarily political in nature, with theological aspects as a secondary factor, and that this is the same case with many churches today (for example schisms between the church in Moscow and Constantinople over Ukraine, or the Methodist Church over homosexuality).

@SeanWinters

2 жыл бұрын

@@tianming4964 As a protestant, I must agree there are things wrong with catholicism, but I'm unsure what you mean by "tying itself to the state". Do you mean they fail because they allow the government to tell them how to act, or is it the mere connection of these things? I will also say that, no Christian can truly act Christlike. Being Christian means to be a hypocrite. We are like long jumpers, who can never reach the bar. Just because some people's bars are on the floor(no morals this no moral failings) doesn't mean they jump higher than us. I'm more versed in the reformation, which absolutely started on a theological level(with the most notable exception of the Anglican church), and the separation was later turned "political" with the 30 years war. Although after that war, most of Europe agreed fighting over religion was not such a Christ like thing to do.

Life is never easy, and there always will be difficulties in every path. I hope for the best to all my chinese fellows from Russia:)

@Marc-.

2 жыл бұрын

спасибо my ruski fren

My crazy thought about the origins of the divergence between China and the other civilizations is that China didn't have the equivalent of the hard reset of the Bronze age collapse of the ancient near east (including Mycenae) which is the progenitor of both Western and Islamic civilizations. Near eastern rulers lost much of their divine status in the collapse and had never recovered it. Their legitimacy was hence on based on the suppport of the priesthood or pure military force. China looks like a what if ancient Egypt could continue as it was before the collapse for another 2000 years including surviving into the axial age and then unify the western eurasia civilization zones. Something like the concervative mandarin bureaucracy looks like a possible logical contiuation of Egyptian scribal class. After the collapse new simplified writing systems allowed many to bypass the scribes with much higher overall literacy. Religion had three components during the bronze age: Folk belief, Pantheon and Divine kingship (think of the Pharaos). In the west divine kingship was weakened and the priesthood gained power to make the pantheon supreme and the philosophies became pure rationalism or theism with religion evolving into current missionary monotheism. In China there was no collapse and this allowed the pantheon to atrophy with it's priesthhod leaving kind of emperor worship mixed with folk religion and philosophy taking a different route.

@buddermonger2000

2 жыл бұрын

Only issue is that Islamic was fundamentally derived from Roman civilization and the influences of the others by the bronze age collapse can barely be felt

@shlomomarkman6374

2 жыл бұрын

@@buddermonger2000 Regarding other, Rome is derived from earlier iron age civilizations, especially ancient Greece with additional Phoenician influence, both those were transformed by the collapse. India had similar event with the collapse of Indus valley civilization. The Incas on the other side had many collectivist "Chinese" features including true emperor worship and centrally planned economy. They resembled the ancient Bronze age civilizations in many respects

@leonardoleo5740

Жыл бұрын

Makes sense tbh

@leoliu5017

Жыл бұрын

The divergence between China and the other civilizations is other major ancient civilization is destroyed by "barbarian" while in China "barbarian" Sinicized. If Rome have more population than Germanic tribes they probally still around.

You know this does bring up an interesting what if scenario, where the Chinese actually saw the value of trading for steam tech and fire arms.

@TheSkyGuy77

2 жыл бұрын

A steampunk, industrialized China would've been interesting.

@lc9245

2 жыл бұрын

Not introducing foreign elements were the best course of action for them. Foreign ideas, technology and trade empower local powers to destroy centralised power. That's why they don't want foreigner to come in and disrupt the social structure they have established. Their fear of foreigners meddling became reality with Taiping Rebellion and Boshin War in Japan. Conflict and evolution sounds good, but it also meant tons of bloodshed, the Chinese rulers chose peace.

To summarize in Bill wurtz: "Guess who's not gone?? China!" "China is whole again, then it broke again!"

Most important thing throughout Chinese history is unity,maintain stable. Every time when the central government collapse then civil war happens,it will last for hundred years and lost 50%-80% of its population. Unity is the supreme priority in China,understanding it is the basis to understand China.

I would be interested in a "understanding Hindu Civilization" video for you'r next video (you probably won't agree to this but I was hoping for you and vaush to have a re-match only instead of having less then an hour maybe you could have a 2 hour window to debate because my main criticism of that debate you had weeks ago was it felt rushed). Either way I look flowered to what ever video you make in the future :)

@SoelGriffin

2 жыл бұрын

Ditto on wanting an "understanding Hindu civilization" video...

@user-lh9fx8zc9p

2 жыл бұрын

😂

@AJAYSINGH-ns1vv

Жыл бұрын

Please you should study yourself because they can't provide right video about it because europian civilisation is heavily influenced by Indian civilisation but they can't accept it. The timeline of Indian civilisation is very much distorted and also aryan invasion theory has no basis you can study whole sanskrit literature instead it provides opposite to what europians claims.

The Manchus were definitely not "nomadic conquerers". At the time where they conquered China, they were a settled, urbanized, state-civilization.

@mint8648

2 жыл бұрын

True. They had advanced industries and controlled china’s ginger and cloth dye supply. A significant amount of china’s silver imported from spain were in turn exported to the manchus.

@sinoroman

2 жыл бұрын

they weren't nomadic, yes. but, they weren't entirely civilized either since they were at least somewhat nomadic in practice based on their horde system. they had very similar traditions to the mongols, such as focus on cavalry, hunting as a military practice, importing slaves after war, and having a khan (until they "switched"). the manchu soldiers didn't really have much a place to be other than living next to military posts. i doubt manchuria was urban back then

@gavinwang7886

2 жыл бұрын

@@sinoroman Manchus were hunting and gathering tribes, not entirely nomadic nor urbanized.

@sinoroman

2 жыл бұрын

correct, the manchu people were very tribal

@user-mg5hh1pj3c

2 жыл бұрын

@@sinoroman Manchu focus on heavy infantry and heavy cavalry, they did not fight like Mongols who focus on light cavalry.

It is very interesting to compare both your and kraut's video on the topic. I think both of you did a great job at tackling it.

You should make a video where you go in depth about your predictions for Turkey.

@scholaroftheworldalternatehist

2 жыл бұрын

Turkey big chungus neo-ottomon world order 2100

@justinaccurate347

2 жыл бұрын

@The Philosoraptor like the matrox?/??1!!1

@bernardoohigginsvevo2974

2 жыл бұрын

@MR map That would be good too.

The Ming are loved for their great selection of emperors. You have woodworkers, polo players, actors, shamans and sometimes even general and good leaders!

Amazing analysis, as always. I think that a new important factor is emerging in China - the litoral urban centers. Through it’s centuries, China has been a land-based power, with it’s heartland between the Yellow and Yangtze rivers. But just has the mountains, jungles, steppes and deserts have been natural barriers often controlled by foreign powers, the Sea has become one as well. As you explained, the State crushed the emergence of certain social groups, like the merchants, which in a way halted China from using the Sea for trade despite having that great opportunity. In a time, that position was occupied as well by foreigners, namely the Europeans. The trade posts that they established progressively in China’s coast were initially insignificant in the context of the Middle Empire, but with the triumph of the Western economic model in the Industrial Age, they become axis attracting Chinese economy’s center of gravity. The economic development and opportunities in the East attracted millions from the countryside and the population exploded. The trade posts in a couple of centuries developed into the great Chinese metropolises. The relative openness of these urban centers due to their trade relations with the World make them both economically and socially more liberal than the traditional heartland in the Great Plain. Hong Kong is the biggest example of this. Of course it has very unique characteristics, but it is an image of what Shangai, Guangzhou, Hangzhou or Nanking could become. Even if the Communist regime survives this decade, I believe it won’t reach the 2040s. But by then, everything seems to indicate we will be living in a completely different world. Amazing times to be be alive, late spring of 2022.

@hughmungus2760

Жыл бұрын

the 'communist' regime in china is only a label, they're very similiar in many ways to the current japanese government in that its a conservative, nationalist, quasi-fascist oligarchy where the elites inherit their power and pay lip service to marxist dogma. the only thing that might change is that they get rid of the communist label and just adopt a more purely nationalist one. but nothing else would be fundamentally different.

@liankaiyang9135

Жыл бұрын

你在做梦吗？

@llubay3970

Ай бұрын

I wish you live long enough to see your dream come true. But probably you won't.

Good video, I wonder which civilization you will cover next.

Man I love this channel. Already know I’m gonna enjoy this video

I'd love to see a video exploring the influence neurodivergent people (Autism, ADHD, High intelligence etc.) Had. At least as far as we could expect within a reasonable doubt.

@denver-gi7ot

Жыл бұрын

I'd say a lot of technology was invented/improved by autistic people. Computers, microwave oven etc probably possibly wouldn't exist without autism.

You gotta do What if the Taiping Rebellion succeeded. I know your not that much into alternate history now, but this is the TL that begs you to make it.

These are your best video! Keep making them 🙏🏼

Your videos are incredible! Thank you!

"The Chinese abolished slavery before the birth of Christ" Honestly, WOW. Speaks so much of this proud civilization.

@bradwilles5152

2 жыл бұрын

like all of his pronouncements of the abolition of slavery this is mostly hyperbole. Slavery still existed in China, just like it still existed in Europe after Christianity , just like it still existed in the Iranian Plateau after the Achaemendids, just like it still existed after the British abolished slavery in the 19th century

@innosam123

2 жыл бұрын

Most areas with huge populations abolished slavery on their own. Slavery only makes sense with low populations, like in the Americas, where labour is so expensive you have to artificially force the price down via slavery. Either that, or you’re a Muslim empire.

@codycapko3927

2 жыл бұрын

@@innosam123 lmao, that last part caught me off guard

@jamesgordley5000

2 жыл бұрын

So had Persia (or Iran) under Zoroastrianism, but that was before it was reintroduced under Islam.

@SaideBilla

2 жыл бұрын

imagine China invented nazism how it could look like

Overall it's quite an accurate depiction of Chinese history and political philosophies, kudos to the hard work of whatifalthist channel! Being someone who has studied both Chinese and Western history intensively out of personal curiosity, I'd like to elaborate on a few key understandings. 1. Why the Southern Song dynasty composed poetry instead of waging war to recover Northern China. I see a parallel in the Byzantine empire which did not make major efforts to recover lost territory in its later years. It instead focused on theological orthodoxy. Even though eventually the Byzantines lost their empire, their orthodox theology caused a large swath of countries to stubbornly adhere to that creed to this day and form a major counterweight to Western ideology. Same applies here - without adequate resources and logistical advantages the Southern Song knew they would not have the upper hand in recovering lost territory. However their focus on orthodox Confucian ideology and culture largely resulted in Chinese identity being maintained during the Mongol Empire's rule, and assimilation of the Manchus into the Chinese sphere. With the military prowess of the Manchus China has been able to hold onto Xinjiang, Tibet, and Inner Mongolia to this day. 2. Chinese government's cleverness was the reason for massive economic growth and gain of state power on the world stage in recent decades. Cleverness cannot be the main reason to explain a massive development like this. The main reason is strategic interplay of world powers - a perfect analogy is Russia: in the 19th century France needed Russia to counter UK so it gave massive loans and technological help to the Russian Empire. By the end of the century UK and America also needed Russia to counter Germany so they also massively helped Russia and the Soviet Union to develop into a major world power. Back in the 18th century nobody thought Russia was going to become one of two superpowers of the world in the 20th century. Along a similar reasoning, America and the West needed China to counter the Soviet Union in the 20th century, therefore helped foster the rapid growth of China. In a globalized world, China's size and its ability to unite itself efficiently makes it a useful counter weight to any major world power. Obviously there are probably minor inaccuracies (for example what ethnic group ruled China in the Zhou dynasty etc.) but there is currently debate about the ethnic origins of ancient China due to new DNA research. The orthodox Chinese view of ethnic or racial purity is artificial and not worth discussing.

@Thecognoscenti_1

2 жыл бұрын

Just to make it clear, the Song elite didn't just write poems lamenting the loss of Northern China, they also tried to retake it by force, three separate times. The first time was Yue Fei's counteroffensive during the first Jurchen invasion of the Song. Meanwhile, the poets who wrote those poems, like Lu You and Xin Qiji, were some of China's most hawkish politicians, and had a major effect on Song policy towards northern reconquest. They nearly succeeded after a second Jurchen invasion, which went disastrously, and the naval Battles of Tangdao and Caishi, which paved the way for a reconquest of the North, but the invasion lost momentum and the Song and Jin made peace in 1164 in the Peace of Longxing, reducing their annual tributary payments, but not gaining any land. There was a second attempt to retake the North by the Song, who invaded the Jurchen Jin in 1206 after a hawkish faction, led by Chancellor Han Tuozhou, who incidentally was helped to power by Lu You and Xin Qiji, gained power in court and hoped that the Jin had succumbed to decadence like the Liao. The invasion was a complete disaster, and in the aftermath, the Song was forced to increase their annual tribute to the Jin in the Peace of Jiading. The point is, that the Song did actively attempt to retake the North.

@mtndudesf

2 жыл бұрын

@@Thecognoscenti_1 yes they tried to fight but they also negotiated peace several times. It's prudent to do so when you don't have the winning hand. Also the Song court was fearful of generals getting too powerful, much like the late Manchu court would rather make peace with western powers than to let ethnic Han generals get too powerful. Therefore it's not wrong to say the southern Song focused on culture more than recovering territory. And I argue that building cultural strength is the right thing to do when you aren't in a position to win militarily.

@xxxyyy9361

Жыл бұрын

wow in another word so the credits all belong to the west ?

@mtndudesf

Жыл бұрын

@@xxxyyy9361 credit of China's fast development in the last 30 years should be given to both external and internal reasons. External geopolitical opportunity is the biggest reason as I stated with America needing China to counter the Soviet Union, and Western capitalism needing lots of cheap labor to produce bigger profits for capital. The internal reasons should also be given credit: chiefly the tradition of national unity and emphasis on education in Chinese culture, and the ability of the communist government to maintain social cohesion while softening raw capitalism's negative impacts at a low financial cost (contrasting with the experience of Russia and Latin America where domination of oligarchy occurred and vitality of capitalism is lost). Another set of external/internal contributors worth mentioning are the massive help by overseas Chinese who have continued and revived Song and Yuan China's merchantilist traditions despite coastal trading bans by the Ming and Qing dynasties; and the Soviet help with foundation of heavy industry in the 1950s.

Civilization videos are my favorites @whatifalthist ♥

3:45 - its amazing how this chart mimics European geography. I am curious as to where “Italians” would have fallen on the chart based on the two components.

For starters, your extra villagers make you housed right at the beginning, so Dark Age is a bit tricky.

Various Chinese dynasties, eras, millenias, periods, decades, centuries, circas, times, lines, timelines, were highly into studying within there environments, atmospheres, surroundings, terrains, spottings, and markings

Love rewatching these civilization videos your analysis is really interesting

Great video. Summarizing 5 millennia in 30 minutes can't be easy. From the comments a day later, any mistakes made don't seem huge (can't make a determination on who's right since I haven't studied enough Chinese history for 30 years, so what I did learn is dusty & in shadows). I very much appreciate the fact that you are aware you have biases, flagging that at a couple points. Also a big thank you for including a bibliography.

Thanks for the video! Now that you've touched on China proper, could you do a video on how China's trends shaped the civilizations of the smaller states around and how/why they deviated from China's trends?

*Please make a video on What if Russia collapses or what if Russia wins war in ukraine completely.*

@johnpaulcross424

2 жыл бұрын

Need this

@jeremy7372

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly both are kinda unlikely scenarios

@neolithictransitrevolution427

2 жыл бұрын

I think there is a reasonable chance to seeing an East and West Russia form along the Urals. East Russia as a Chinese puppet state/nuclear enabled paria state similar to North Korea, and West Russia as the majority of the population in a democratic form supported by uprising, Ukrainian/NATO support, and EU patronage. If you start seeing unrest in the West, it isn't a hard sell to imagine Russian leaders fleeing east (they're already in the Urals) and the Chinese stepping in in the east to protect economic assets (oil and gas wells), prevent unrest on the boarder, and of course avoid a western aligned country to thier North. You might also see a few fallout states, Tartarstan, Chechnya, Dagestan form, and Kazakhstan may change its boarders a little bit by short term stabilization operations on its boarder and support to cities like Orenburg, which lead to long term gains to keep a balance between the two Russias.

@Cannedscourge

2 жыл бұрын

You won't have to wait long for the second one, lol.

@fgkuv5232

2 жыл бұрын

Here in russia we are certain of our victoty. After the war we will rebuild ukraine and bring cheap gas there. Then we will controll over a ⅓ of all global food supply and a big% of fertilizer production. In the past month inflation in russia has stopped and for a week we have even expirienced deflation. I think recently whatifalthist in part fell victim to western media shitting out ukrainian propaganda constantly.

i was wonderfully amazed by your video, but I've been wondering where you have gotten this info? would love to learn more, and if you could share your sources it would be great!

Very interesting presentation, Rutger. Thank you very much!!

Idk if Chinese civilization developed “from a single society”. As Chinese expanded they modified their customs with those of the newly sinicised population, and in the tang dynasty the ruling elite had heavy turkic influence. Only after the tang did china suddenly become obsessed with the concept of Han purity

@jmhsieh7103

2 жыл бұрын

I mean the idea of ethnic han at the time was just “Chinese” to them. Also the tang dynasty’s ruling dynasty really weren't that influenced by there Turkic side. While taizong did once use his connections to ally with the xianbei and was partially Turkic. If you were paternally han Chinese he was basically considered han Chinese.

@gamerdude116

2 жыл бұрын

@@jmhsieh7103 I don’t really disagree that the Tang firmly considered themselves as Han, just that Chinese civilization borrowed a great deal from foreign influences as it constructed itself

@jmhsieh7103

2 жыл бұрын

@@gamerdude116 oh alr

0:40: I take it this is going to be your first video in a while without a single spelling mistake. 1:30: scratch that.

@ckhpersonal670

Жыл бұрын

XD thats fcking hilarious

I love your content, and how real and sincere it is, undistracted by production minutiae. That said, the URL @1:32 has a typo...

Accurate,I can say as a Chinese. Very impressively accurate actually. This can be,and pretty much is the textbook. Keep up the good work, I have high expectations for you.

lots of fantastic art sources in this video

Is this a part II as I remember there was an upload with a very similar context and subject

@thedoruk6324

2 жыл бұрын

@The Philosoraptor agreed there was an upload with the same context before

great stuff man!

Look man, I've been following you for years and love your content, specially your more recent, geopolitical analysis. But you've got to improve your editing and maybe the format of your videos. It could help you grow as a channel in every way and it would make my experience much better. I mean, with the mic quality changes every 3 minutes and the walls of text it's already pretty messy, and we've had some minor glitches before too, but the one at min 1:43 is just too much. I know you can do better, and you know you can do better. If you have trouble doing something about all of this, you can always hire someone to edit. But your videos are really asking for that consistency and better looks and care after years of pictures on a black background. In any case, I hope you're doing great. Love your work, man.

@FelipeJaquez

Жыл бұрын

He needs to hire a video editor or something bevause IDK how he misses these things.

0:11 "firm as a rock" One could argue that the often catastrophic dynastic changes are comparable to the empire collapses of other civilizations, however. I also wouldn't call China firm as a rock with all the civil wars, rebellions and conquests.

@KingR3aper

2 жыл бұрын

This is something often discussed in historian circles and opinions on it has swayed multiple times, but today it is mostly agreed that while dynastic changes were absolutely catastrophic, and devastating, they werent civilization *ending* comparable to others in the same context. They would inevitably happen every few hundred years on a massive scale, but in these times of turmoil, warfare and chaos revolved around the idea of *who* is to rule a re-unified China, under the same dynastic rules and traditions etc. In between these moments would be long stretches of centuries of a peaceful and flourishing dynasty (before inevitably collapsing). So while it seems like it happens *a lot* it's because they've just simply been around for a long time, while others stopped existing entirely. In this sense, contrast to many other civilizations it is indeed "firm as a rock". In a historical context, it is as stable as one can get. As the Dynastic system was never replaced until 1900s, which would mean it stretched back to the Qin. Even during the brief Mongol rule, it was still under the Dynastic system, under a Chinese style of governing, and later the Qing (Manchu) would do the same. Contrast this to Rome, where Byzantium is a a term specifically there to differentiate Classical Roman Empire and Medieval Roman Empires, as there was just such a stark difference between them.

@randlebrowne2048

2 жыл бұрын

Rockslides *do* happen, after all!

@carlhaeggman2378

2 жыл бұрын

China as a nation, no. China as a civilisation, yes.

If u wanna talk about Cantonese history & culture lmk. I’ll reach out more formally too. But Cantonese culture has had an outsized impact on China & the world. We take huge pride in it & the govt is actually currently trying to phase out the language.

@damiendiem

2 жыл бұрын

Cantonese is also more similar to Ancient Chinese than Mandarin is.

@GL-iv4rw

2 жыл бұрын

Cantonese may be more "culturally pure" but ethnically/genetically they are not and quite the opposite.

@damiendiem

2 жыл бұрын

@@GL-iv4rw Yeah, it's more due to Northern China having been raided so many times by "barbarians". Cultural assimilation doesn't just go one way, even for China.

@pscamander9162

2 жыл бұрын

@@GL-iv4rw Quite a lot of Vietnamese (Dainam?) heritage there.

There are many good points in this video but I found that your ideology influences your analysis so much that it's even contradicting the points you made in the same video. For example, you mentioned that the Chinese are inward focus, down-to-earth practical, but somehow you concluded that China is the greatest threat to the current world order. And you predict the collapse of it without any good reason. If you could throw away ideology, there is this clear pattern in Chinese history: a chaotic waring period, a short unified regime and a long-lasting dynasty (Han, Tang, Jin, Song, Ming, Qing), then back to the chaotic waring period. No matter how you feel about the Red Dynasty, it fits into this pattern as one of the long-lasting ones. Will there be hiccups like Wang Mang, Wu Zetian etc? Probably. Will it collapse very soon? Unlikely based on the pattern. Ray Dailo's changing world order is a great video to learn about historical patterns: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qpupw89phK6zp5s.html

@kokofan50

2 жыл бұрын

What the people are like and how the government acts are two very different things. Also, he’s covered the reasons China is going to collapse in other videos.

@chaomingli6428

2 жыл бұрын

@@kokofan50 That's a binary view of society. I used to think that too but the reality is that the government is just a part of the society.

@kokofan50

2 жыл бұрын

@@chaomingli6428 in another country, you might have a point. However, the CCP has imposed themselves and their ideology onto China.

@bobjones2959

2 жыл бұрын

Problem is, throughout all the centuries China has largely been isolated and only subject to serious outside influence via their north. Now, the world is global and any instability in any country will surely be exploited by many others. Back then even Japan couldn't exert any serious pressure on China. Now, the US can easily do it from an entire ocean away.

needed a new history channel to watch. Thanks!

As a Chinese myself i appreciate any opinions that take effort to look into it. So great video !

@AB-et6nj

2 жыл бұрын

How accurate did you find his explanation of China?

@xiaogangdasha

2 жыл бұрын

@@AB-et6nj not as much as kraut's video, mostly a good high school project.

@AB-et6nj

2 жыл бұрын

@@xiaogangdasha Thanks for the reference to Kraut's video. I would like to learn more about China but I have a hard time finding detailed and credible sources as most of what I find seems very simplistic

@xiaogangdasha

2 жыл бұрын

@@AB-et6nj yeah, im afraid so, chinese history is too long and it had a fair influence over its neighbors and the world too, the records are there but a theory put them all together is lack and ourselves dont have it too :(. i guess its up to us or future historians to interpret it more. And the interpretation of history overall probably depends on how are we view ourselves presently too. edit intercept - interpret :)

@AB-et6nj

2 жыл бұрын

@@xiaogangdasha Do you know any good Chinese historians (from China)?

I have been fascinated by China for years, glad you made this video

As soon as I wonder about China, such a class channel

Make a video looking into the future of space colonisation! It'd go along well with your "Explaining the Borders of the 22nd Century" video.

"So, don't you think this is the time for a video about Islamic civilization?" WIAT:"How about a video about china for the 100th time?".

@rihaanparakkal6599

2 жыл бұрын

Fr lmao

@KerriEverlasting

2 жыл бұрын

You mad bro?

@azlyri

2 жыл бұрын

@@KerriEverlasting not mad,just disappointted

@ihavenojawandimustscream4681

2 жыл бұрын

10 bucks he's going to delay the islamic civilization video until he can find a islamic history youtuber to collab with

@rihaanparakkal6599

2 жыл бұрын

@@ihavenojawandimustscream4681 the Al Muqqadimah guy fo sho

The Yellow River civilization is the start of the Chinese Civilization with out a shadow of a doubt It has generally been accepted that the Chinese 'Cradle of Civilization' is the Yellow River Valley which gave rise to villages sometime around 5000 BCE. While this has been disputed, and arguments have been made for the more widespread development of communities, there is no doubt that the Henan province, in the Yellow River Valley, was the site of many early villages and farming communities.

Very good for such a broad subject and such a limited amount of time. My only quibble, and of course I would have to have one, is that the whole "Chinese don't do gunpowder weapons" doesn't concur with recent scholarship as far as I know. But very good.

The social contract wasn't John Locke. It was Thomas Hobbes. However, I do believe that Locke's 2nd Treatise was, in part, a response to Hobbes' thesis.

The audio around 1:42-1:43 sounds like it was unintentionally cut?

The unbroken history of china (regardless of any other issues) is truly stunning. As an American its hard to comprehend 500 years of history let alone 5000 years.

I'd love to see the books used references, especially on buddhism!

Thank you for the details.

Gets late for a goddamn meeting: Well boys, it might as well be a rebellion at this point. XD

Nice video

As a Chinese historian, I am amazed by the factual generality and accuracy shown in your video. You are gifted at grasping the essential points of a subject you are researching on. I want to offer my 2 cents that are not mentioned in your video. Hope they would be helpful and complementary. * In regard to secular ethics, Confucianism is perhaps the closest ideology to Max Weber's Protestant Ethics you can find on earth. ** Both ethics adore the idea of making local people rich by hard work. ** Confucians want to make local family/clan rich and the State not that rich, while legalists want to make the State rich and local people very very poor. This conflict of visions is throughout the Chinese history in the recent 2000 years. Mao said that he is a Marxist + legalist. That's an accurate self-assessment. ** The congruence between Confucianism and Protestant Ethics is the reason why CJK (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) regimes can be as rich as protestant nations as long as the CJK regimes adopt western democracy. Japan, South Korea and Taiwan are the empirical proofs. Their economical performance is better than Catholic nations and any other type of nations (Orthodox, Hindu, Islam and whatever). * 22:23 Actually it is controversial to say that Confucians destroy the techno aspects of China. It was Mongols (Tartars) and Manchu (Eastern Tartars. 17th century European called Manchu just as Tartars) who destroyed the techno aspects of China, because by their common sense they knew that hot weapons would be the worst enemy of their barbarian cavalries. Here is an empirical proof: Han Chinese in Ming Dynasty were crazy about western hot weapons, which were extensively used to fight against Nurhaci's Manchu army. After Manchu conquered Han China, they got rid of all hot weapons and focused on their conventional equestrian skills (弓马娴熟). Until the later 19th century, hot weapons were picked up again by Han Chinese, not Manchu's cavalries. ** 25:57 Again this is due to Manchu's conquer of China. If British people had met a Han Chinese regime in 1790, things would have been totally different. Han Chinese's reaction to western contact is very similar to Japanese's, not Mongol's and Manchu's. ** Even today, the Chinese people who are friendly to western world are mostly from south, and those who are hostile to western world are mostly from north. * 23:33 Song dynasty got rid of serfdom (I actually mean people-bound-to-land because medieval China was not a feudal system). People in Song dynasty had the freedom of migration just like modern day Americans (and Taiwanese, but not mainland Chinese). Serfdom was restored by Mongols, then Ming dynasty inherited Mongol's serfdom policy. Russia suffered a similar fate because Golden Horde mongols/tartars bounded near 100% of their population to the land, therefore implemented an extreme form of serfdom (a totalitarian serfdom, which is different from England's partial serfdom with the presence of significant amount of freemen). In other words, Soviet Union and communist China share the same totalitarian serfdom policy from the same source -- Mongols.

Great video! I'm a huge fan of Chinese history and this was one of the best videos I've seen about it. Thank you so much for your work!

Here's an idea for you: The 'Self-domestication' theory on why because of urbanisation and the creation of the 'state' by humans in the neolithic period onwards has contributed to the reduction in human brain sizes. According to this theory just like the cow has a smaller brain to the auroch, the dog to the wolf, so have humans from the 9000 BC onwards have increasingly begun to have smaller brains once humans began living in urban settlements. Why? When man domesticated the auroch into the pliable cow it had to breed out it's aggression into order to make it 'useful' and man did the same with the dog with regards it's aggressive wolf ancestor instincts, likewise with the creation of the state the state (via it's rulers in order to optimise that state?) ended up 'domesticating' humans by breeding out the bigger brain but more aggressive/thuggish human beings in their territory through a mixture of war and systematised penal codes (e.g. hammurabi earliest, the latest one is Iceland post-Christian conversion) and in doing so created a docile urban dwelling human population which the state can use as cash cows and cannon fodder. Which brings to my second suggestion: I highly recommend you do a book review of Scott's "Against the Grain" which does a history on why the first states humans invented were all about storage of grain as well as enslaving 'free' hunter-gatherer/nomadic tribes (especially fertile women - in pre-modern times this was called 'bride napping') in order to create a steady supply of 'slave labour' for crop production and enslaving and capturing other 'city states'.

@victorvonsteuben1728

2 жыл бұрын

Wow. Disgusting

@whattoputhere8063

2 жыл бұрын

intresting theory but false the agression wasent bred out atleast not practically nowadays yes youre less likely to get shanked but not because people are less violent its because they have other ways of fuckin with you like the godforsaken legaly system violence is a symptom of needlessly fucking around while thinking youre above reproach which is an outgrowth of evilness of human nature heres an example karens you think they would exist a few hundread years ago ? bro they would deadass cop a knife in the gullet at the first outburst overall violence has lessened but the cause of it has increased dramatically 20x-30x if not more and speaking of which this is the usefulness of violence and why more if it is needed if everyone got into a knife fight people would be humble and wouldent be so damn inclined to start causing shit needlessly overall niggas need to mind they own godddamn business

@georgethompson1460

2 жыл бұрын

Hasn't it been suggested that brain size began reducing before agriculture, also homo sapiens have smaller brains than neandethals and they didn't have cities till 6,000 years ago.

@MeidoInHebun

2 жыл бұрын

@@georgethompson1460 Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals don't descend from each other, and both coexisted at the same time in various parts of the world. The earliest cities that we have actual evidence for are from 12,000 years ago or so.

@bradwilles5152

2 жыл бұрын

@@georgethompson1460 brain size /= intelligence. Neanderthals brains were larger because they are suspected to have a more advanced optical system.

kraut video on comparing india to china was great and he came with the conclusion at the china has a strong state system with is dew to it long, complex and ancient history with makes this whole topic that more interesting to me learning about how china got to this point we need to look at it's well to be fair most places share this because history as a subject is very complex

@PakBallandSami

2 жыл бұрын

@The Philosoraptor you should it is really good

@scholaroftheworldalternatehist

2 жыл бұрын

Aren't Paks the war dogs of China against India?

@cterence1767

2 жыл бұрын

Kraut is brilliant

@arpandey5907

2 жыл бұрын

Kraut is far better than Whatifalthist.

Dude this is amazing, first time I’ve seen a non Chinese KZreadr understand Chinese history, geopolitics, society and their overall mindset so well. 10/10

Banger as always

As always, good content, but man that first edit after ‘back to video’ was rough lol. Either way, got a free comment 😂

The Historian's Craft has a bunch of great videos on the Qing and their failure to modernize after 1700

@leonardoleo5740

Жыл бұрын

Where?

I find it fascinating that most religions were formed at the same time period.