The statue of Lenin in Seattle stands but Lincoln is torn down by the possesed. This is symbolic of what needs to be corrected in America.

@jwf2125

Жыл бұрын

@El Bearsidente Explain please.

@TheJames1745

Жыл бұрын

That's because those putting up statues of Lenin and tearing down statues of Lincoln and the Founding Fathers are the same people. Left wing Bolshevik Marxists who seek to destroy America. And they're being taught by anti American Communist professors in the cancerous tumors called universities.

@rogdon21

Жыл бұрын

@@jwf2125 when is it ok to suspend constitutional rights, imprison citizens who disagree with your gov? If the answer is “never”, then you might think Lincoln was a tyrant. If your answer is “in order to save the republic”, then he wouldn’t be. Was the strengthening of federal power a good thing or a bad thing? In this case the reason given was slavery, abolishing it was noble. Was centralizing power and essentially neutering the 10th amendment a good thing? All these are reasons to consider. Lincoln was tasked with a heavy burden. We can see the result of a now behemoth federal gov. You decide, but as with most things it isn’t cut and dry.

@rogdon21

Жыл бұрын

@@jwf2125 I wouldn’t call him a tyrant. I would simply ask what is your compromise point when it comes to personal rights and constitutional and states rights. Your answer to this question will give you an idea of what you approved and didn’t approve regarding Lincoln.

@rayr5950

Жыл бұрын

This episode is so soaked with Lincoln idolatry, I thought I was going to puke. So much to unpack here, no time for all of it but, Ferguson seems ecstatic as an obvious Left Nationalist that before the war people referred to the republic as "The United States Are" and then after his hero Lincoln "Saved the Union" at the point of a bayonet and blood referred to it as "The United States is" as Shelby Foot wrote. I don't think Shelby Foot rejoiced in that as Ferguson does. What it proves is Lincoln's actions destroyed the old federal republic of the founders and instituted a new "nation", something that would have repulsed them. Ferguson talks about Lerone Bennett, Jr. as if were a fellow traveller, but Bennett concluded this about historians like Ferguson, "Lincoln is theology, not historiology. He is a faith, he is a church, he is a religion, and he has his own priests and acolytes, most of whom have a vested interest in 'the great emancipator' and who are passionately opposed to anybody telling the truth about him".

When I was a troubled teenager in Portland I would walk by that Abraham Lincoln statue almost daily. It's no hyperbole to say that it was pivotal in giving me a sense of strength & direction when many other people & things had failed & I needed it most. When it is restored many other things will be as well.

@silaslizzie43

Жыл бұрын

As a fellow Portlander for fifty plus years, I also feel the loss. I detest the idiocy currently at work destroying a once beautiful city. Don't give up or give in to the madness.

@vladtheimpala5532

Жыл бұрын

I’m a native Washingtonian from the Seattle area but I lived in Portland for several years in the late seventies and I loved it. You have one of the largest urban forests in the United States. It’s a beautiful city and Oregon is a beautiful state. It’s up to the voters in the area whether they want to keep or remove a statue. It’s not up to a mob of historically illiterate zealots.

@davidbutcher550

Жыл бұрын

You have to defeat the Confederates first

@foxtrotjulietbravo5536

Жыл бұрын

@@vladtheimpala5532 - Great comment. Great avatar.

@joshuataylor3550

Жыл бұрын

Your meaningless sentimentality is of no importance to truth.

Imagine a world where real strength and integrity is rewarded.

@simpinainteasy680

Жыл бұрын

It is in our own lives.

@theholepicture

4 ай бұрын

@@simpinainteasy680 point taken but we don't have enough micro successes there to have the good dominate the bad.

This series of interviews on some of the most consequential and now, more than ever, controversial figures of history, is priceless. Thank you for each and every one of them. I am riveted.

I am forever grateful for the private education I received because it was an integral part of our curriculum that we visit Gettysburg during our 8th grade year. It was an incredible experience and probably what put me on the path (even though I went through a brief brainwashing in college) to loving America and recognizing the incredible sacrifice this country has made to better itself and gain extraordinary achievements. And our 16th President Abraham Lincoln is a true embodiment of this very fact.

England’s loss is America’s gain. Thank you Douglas Murray (if you even read these comments) for your wonderful interviews. You are as good an interviewer as you are an interviewee. I enjoy your books & articles as you’re a serious thinker.

Douglas, I am really enjoying this series. Thank you.

@christopheryoung383

Жыл бұрын

I really do love this series. He brings out the best of what all these people had to give to us is it country into the world. I listen to Thomas Jefferson and George Washington or Heroes of mine and Abraham Lincoln so it's in Church Hill

@HighDefinitionVideo

6 ай бұрын

💯

This is easily now my most anticipated weekly series on YT. Thank you !

Best new series on KZread!!!

@zvpzvp

Жыл бұрын

Indeed!

Absolutely loved the discussion on Lincoln. In my mind he is possibly the greatest statesman to ever have lived during his time. Thank you so much I learned a lot

Thank you, Douglas. Essential reminder of a pivotal time in history; of greatness and a past of which to be so proud.

It is so refreshing to revisit our amazing American history lately forgotten and unappreciated by most of us,thank you for bringing back memories of the true subject matter.

@jsvoable

Жыл бұрын

@@ElBearsidente Which ones?

@joshuataylor3550

Жыл бұрын

They call out everyone else's bias but neglect to acknowledge their own.

This series is gold! Thank you Douglas!!

Wonderful talk. Made me appreciate Lincoln even more than I already do.

@garbonomics

Жыл бұрын

@El Bearsidente whoa slow down there victim! You’re definitely one of those that need to see this episode in its ENTIRETY. They are talking about people like you after all . With that out of the way let’s ask an important question. What country? You can’t say he needed the approval of congress when the country is in danger of not being one very soon. That’s what happens after “succession”. As they clearly say habeas corpus was restored and this was a war time measure. And he did not invade “his own country” the confederacy became a country onto itself with a government and head of state. It’s that country that was invaded and brought to the fold. Rightly so if I may say so my self. So thanks for playing. 😂

@conservativepineapples6203

Жыл бұрын

@El Bearsidente Ignorance has the luxury of never being weighed down by facts!

This series is so great. It continues to show that people and history are deep and complex. We attribute surface level details and wash away the complexity of the context people lived in.

Love this!! I teach middle school social studies in Maryland, and I love this!!

@charleneki

Жыл бұрын

Your vocation is so very important

Being British, it is not for me to tell Americans what statues and monuments they should have in their own country. However, I am surely allowed to have my own feelings. While I dislike slavery, I am sad, but not completely surprised, that statues of Confederate heroes like Lee, Jackson, Forrest and Davis are under attack. I was shocked that the same applies to Thomas Jefferson, but I am absolutely amazed that it can apply to Abraham Lincoln.

Thank you Douglas for these. As an American, who’s mother (mum) is from Britain (was a child during the Battle of Britain in London), whose grandfather (American side) was a P.O.W. From Wake Island, these interviews are most welcome and refreshing. Can’t wait for the one about Winston Churchill. Yes, Americans consider him a great man.

@GreenMorningDragonProductions

Жыл бұрын

Lincoln and Churchill are great examples of the old adage "they liberated millions, and have never been forgiven for it".

@rayr5950

Жыл бұрын

@@GreenMorningDragonProductions I heard Lincoln liberated 650,000 Americans of their mortal coil. Just trying to keep things real you see.

Thank you Douglas Murray. What a wonderful education. I am very fortunate to have had teachers like this in my life. One can’t help but wonder if they have become extinct what with woke

All of my father's people came from Illinois. I was taught early on that we came from the land of Lincoln and to be very proud of that. Lincoln was revered in our house rightly so

This series is wonderful! ✨

I listen to so many audiobooks & podcasts & watch so many documentaries that I'm sorry I can't cite the source, but I remember one traveler years ago who was in this remote mountainous area in Asia & went into the shack of some very poor people who had a picture of Lincoln on the wall. That's when I realized how inspiring & widespread the admiration for him was. I've also heard from multiple sources over the years that there have been more biographies of Lincoln written than of any other historical figure. Given how people so far removed from the U.S. put his image on their walls, I believe it. Maybe it was Michael Palin in one of his travel series? Apparently, it also wasn't the first time the host / author had seen a picture of Lincoln displayed in some remote location in an entirely foreign culture.

Douglas Murray is my new Superhero. Please check out the recent Munk debate from Toronto.

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that." Quote Abraham Lincoln

@user-tf6mq5xf6k

3 ай бұрын

"A great man: Tender of heart, strong of nerve, of boundless patience and broadest sympathies, with no motive apart from his country. He could receive counsel from a child and give counsel to a sage. The simple approached him with ease - and the learned approached him with deference. Take him for all in all Abraham Lincoln was one of the noblest wisest and best men I ever knew.“ -- Frederick Douglass

@rg-cc5kg

3 ай бұрын

Yet he could have saved the Union without liberating the slaves but he did not. He reached out to Thaddeus Stevens and abolished slavery

Wonderful teacher! Bought the Kindle book and Audible companion immediately. Can’t wait to get into it

Amazing! When you get to interview Mark Twain it really is Amazzzzzing!

Reading his speeches is one thing... But somehow I wish highly regarded historical institutions everywhere would flatter and beg Mr. Daniel-Day Lewis to re-enter his astonishing role as Lincoln, for just a couple of weeks, so as to gift us audio-recordings of him reading out a lot of his speeches. I think this would be a gift to young people everywhere who wish to absorb his speeches but who are sadly too impatient and unable to get a sense of how truly great some of his oration was without it being verbally represented by such a masterful actor. Just a thought thought, just a thought.. 🙂 Peace out!

You're on fire with the wonderful series! And just the right length to listen in the bath, too!

When I attended grad school, I lived around the corner from Lincoln Park, and always found the Emancipation Memorial unsettling. It purports to celebrate Lincoln's liberation of the slaves, but the black figure is nearly naked, and still kneeling at Lincoln's feet. I was astonished to learn that the memorial was paid for almost exclusively with funds raised from freed slaves. Frederick Douglass gave the keynote speech at its dedication, and he agreed with me that the figure of the freed slave should be standing beside Lincoln, clothed and fully possessed of his dignity.

@charleneki

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. A lapse in taste and moral cogency

@WhizzingFish12

Жыл бұрын

I respectfully disagree. First, the park is a monument to Lincoln not the slaves so he is centered. He WAS absolutely crucial to their freedom and its not hyperbole to say that he literally gave his life for them. And the statue itself doesn't show the slave kneeling but beginning to rise. There's a huge difference. His shackles are broken if you look carefully. It also reflects the mores and values of THOSE times, not ours. I await the day when MLK is attacked - after all he advocated for a color-blind society, which is anathema to the woke neo-racists of today.

@charleneki

Жыл бұрын

@@WhizzingFish12 I see your points, that a rising-up slave figure is appropriate when reflecting on what Lincoln led the country to do, And the pathos of that figure is understandable from the viewpoint of the people at that time this monument was erected. It should be allowed to stay to stand witness to the striking of those shackles, which galvanized the conscience of the world .

@WhizzingFish12

Жыл бұрын

@@charleneki I agree. But I do support the addition of another monument alongside it, showing the beneficiaries of his work through the years that followed. Booker T Washington, Shirley Chisholm, etc. That would close the circle nicely.

@shernazmalbari2556

4 ай бұрын

I thought it was one of the most wonderful statues when I first visited USA. In south East Asian culture it is the norm even today to touch the feet 👣 of the elderly,or a mentor or someone who has helped one out of a dire situation, etc. A sign of respect and reverence. It doesn’t degrade a person doing the act, on the contrary it shows the nobility and heartfelt gratitude of the freed slave. I felt a sense of loss and ingratitude when Lincoln’s statue was removed. Sorry, but to me it showed disrespect,there are Hindus in USA who continue their tradition of respect,so I don’t think those who removed the statue of so Great an individual, were ignorant of different cultures.

The central question is whether the United States was better as a single country than it had been as a treaty organization of sovereign states. Ferguson glosses over that question.

@andrewconlon7090

4 ай бұрын

Bingo. He also treats the idea that Lincoln's inauguration of overweening government set a precedent for our current troubles as "perverse." This is lamentable ignorance because, as you say, it marked the date from which the states were servants rather than directors of the federal government. Federal Supremacy as a concept is defined by Shelby Foote's "...the United States are..." vs. "...the United States is..." quote. This is a grave misinterpretation of the ramifications of the civil war.

@timothymeehan181

3 ай бұрын

Read Lincoln’s Message to Congress in Special Session, July 4, 1861. He answers all your questions.

I’ve recently started listening to this series, very interesting. I just finished Robert E. Lee while I was driving to Montreal! Looking forward to Lincoln.

Brilliant people you find Sir.

Finally, discussions of important topics with people who have spent much of their lives studying those very topics.

It is said of Churchill "he mobilised the English language and sent it into battle"; the same is true of Lincoln eighty years before. Oh, and I think I've sussed out a future episode and who Douglas's guest will be.(Suffolk, U.K)

Douglas Murray has remarked that criticism from those who wish your country well should be taken on board, while criticism from those who wish your country ill should be treated with deep suspicion. I'm no Lincoln expert, but I would suspect the motives of anyone wishing to remove his statues. They want to remove much more than that.

Douglas, I’m sure you hear this often, but once again, whenever I see your name while scrolling, I’m a viewer of the video. You don’t waste a word in getting to your point, you add so much to any conversation. I like when you add anecdotal information to clarify a point, perhaps. If you’re not fully sure about a question, you don’t pretend you’re an expert on it. But, you most certainly aren’t bereft of an opinion. Just thinking of a few things I’d like to let you know. You are highly respected and not only by the political right. There are countless in-the-closet Douglas fans from the left. 😁 Thank you for adding so much to the many conversations that must be had in these rapidly changing times. Too rapid.

The Most Important voice for Truth and Learning

"If you don't know anything, then anything is possible." Andrew Ferguson

Just found this series. Thanks for doing these interviews. Enjoyed this so much!

My fav pres., but I was born in Illinois & in my childhood years of the 60-70s it was still a big deal in IL to go to his Springfield home as a field trip & read his works, etc..., so that has stuck with me. He finally got a presidential library & museum, which is fascinating, as well. Thanks Mr. Murray.

@theholepicture

4 ай бұрын

I was required to memorize the Gettysburg Address in school during the 60's in California before it wen't communist.

@qiajenaehamilton6397

3 ай бұрын

@@theholepicture I haven't memorized it, but it's on the shelf with other of his addresses!

People tend to confuse what they believe with who they are and what they believe with the truth. It's better to think of beliefs as a current set of theories which can always be revised.

A tremendously enjoyable discussion.

When Lincoln did the circuit in a horse and buggy in snow rain sleet and all kinds of weather muddy roads slept in a different bed every night no McDonald's in the back country left his family and home for weeks. A lesser man wouldn't have done it

Fascinating!

I was appalled that my granddaughters high school history book devoted 2 paragraphs to Abraham Lincoln.

Wonderful talk, thank you.

Someone should tell our guest knocking down statues and romanticizing politicians are two sides of the same coin.

WAIT! What i miss Lincoln isn't safe from these people. Just stop the world and let me off. on another note thank you so much for this series Douglas

I’ve read that Lincoln himself was disappointed with his Gettysburg Address…saying “that speech will not scour”

Very insightful!

A really good interview. However, I feel like Lincoln has been put up on too large of a pedestal and it creates a situation where any critique of Lincoln gets a person accused of "cancelling" Lincoln or accused of being neo confederate or something. No one is either all good or all bad. Thank you, overall a very good channel. 👍

@rayr5950

Жыл бұрын

Very true. The question is in reality who is canceling who? The left represented by Ferguson is a perfect example of trying to cancel real history and free speech that they don't like..

@charleneki

Жыл бұрын

So what particular point do you think was not touched upon here? All I find missing is a Freudian analysis of Lincoln, which might be interesting for those who understand that sort of thing.

@theholepicture

4 ай бұрын

To your point; No one is either all good or all bad. Lincoln's good was so overwhelmingly influential I believe the pedestal is well earned.

There are two texts inscribed at the Lincoln Memorial. As much as I love the Gettysburg Address, my favorite “Lincoln” is the other text on the wall… the Second Inaugural.

Great stuff. Thanks.

All so good, I'm stressing now about how little remains in the play list.

Great podcast!

When I was a child (early 1970s) a descendant of Lincoln's came to our elementary school to talk about his ancestor.

@joshuataylor3550

Жыл бұрын

They had no reason to be bias...

Thank you Douglas! I am hooked😁

@douglasmurray

Жыл бұрын

Glad to hear it!

Andrew Ferguson looks like how I wished my grandfather 👴 looked like. Plus he's dressed down.. casual and approachable. Andrew is probably really endearing and I'd love to grab a coffee ☕️ with him. It would probably be an interesting and long discussion.

There is a statue of Mao and Lenin in San Antonio Texas. The statue depicts Lenin with a miniature of Mao on the top of his head. Andrew reminds me of Mark Twain.

It's so crazy when you look at how everyone nowadays celebrates their smallest achievements (participation trophies) yet looks at people who achieved unimaginable things get thrown away for not being "perfect". Darn shame 😔

Great interview. A complex individual during a complex time facing a complex problem. It seems arrogant to suppose that there is a simple description that we can meet. I appreciated the comment from Mr. Murray that our criticism may say more about us that those we criticize.

Awesome!

Your introduction triggered a flashback of when I used to watch masterpiece theater. When they opened with welcome to Masterpiece Theatre lol

It's hilarious how he says 'Merican. :)

I enjoy Douglas Murray immensely and I think Uncancelled History is very important. Lincoln is one of my heroes, maybe my first. I've been to his tomb in Springfield, Ill and recite the Gettysburg Address from memory. I don't agree with a lot of Ferguson's conjectures, but that's okay. What I can't ignore is when an historian misquotes his source, claims to have a witness to the erroneous statement and then uses it to disparage not only that author but other sources as well. It makes me wonder about the rest of the story. I have also read the children's book that he and his skeptic friend cited. I first read it in 1957 in a compendium titled "Best in Children's Books Vol. 1" and I just read it again. I have two copies. 'Abraham Lincoln' by Ingri and Edgar Parin D'Aulaire, 1937 with 18 illustrations by the authors. Winner of the Caldecott Medal award as an outstanding children's book. (From the book's flyleaf) Ferguson claims that the incident at the slave market was "one of the central scenes" of that story, and further, that the D'Aulaires quoted Lincoln as saying, "Someday I'm gonna hit that and I'm going to hit it hard." I don't know where Ferguson got the quote, I've never heard it before, but it wasn't from that book. Nor was this scene central to the story. The entire voyage from the Ohio River to New Orleans is told on a single page and the slave market experience occupies only two paragraphs. The authors describe very clearly what any slave market in America looked like in 1825 and don't quote him as saying anything, only suggesting that "Abe Lincoln thought that was cruel." This matters because he is fueling the idea that books are filled with errors and can't be trusted, especially old books. And to use these books, these "Best in Children's Books" to push that narrative really annoys me. I received 42 volumes in the mail between age three and six and I learned more from that experience than kids do today in twelve years, as far as I can tell. And this story of Lincoln is wonderful, the illustrations are fantastic, a great story for kids. The authors trace his life with all the anecdotes and tragedies, but never mention a political party, nor Mary's shortcomings nor disagreements with his government. And mercifully, omit the last day of his life.

@charleneki

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for clarifying that Citation. This speaker must have been thinking of another children's book. I sympathize because I too sometimes feel dementia creeping on .

Burlingame in his Lincoln biography describes this 'slave' incident. This is the lates and most thorough treatment suince Hay and Nicplay's biography spaning ten volumes.

Thank you.

Wonderful content

Turn the Lincoln memorial into prison gravel.

I would echo the positive comments below and add that these podcasts are a timely contribution to the battle against the societal madness that sees statues of our heroes defiled and destroyed. Some men and women, through their actions, are destined to alter the whole course of human history. You could add Newton, Gandhi, Genghis Khan, Mandela, Cook, Jobs, da Vinci, Joan of Arc, Turing, Curie, Pankhurst, Marx, and Darwin, to name but a few... but there's a finite number of heroes, and my hero may be your villain. Douglas, I appreciate you and your excellent guests are demonstrating that individuals are complex and that their behaviour can be open to all sorts of interpretations. Indeed, the critical point is that their contribution to humanity was considered worthy at a certain point in our history. For that reason alone, we should accept these statues, even if they may, in the view of some, upset current-day sensibilities.

Lincoln accomplished and fulfilled what the Declaration of Independence promised. God blessed our country with this man. "Certain kind of Union where slavery would be done away with" "All men are created equal" . I am a WWII refugee and believe the US is a critical presence in the world to hold up "The Light of Truth" in a dark world. Thank you for having this interview.

@rayr5950

Жыл бұрын

How do you figure he "fulfilled what the Declaration of Independence promised"? The Declaration was a secession document! You perhaps missed when reading it stuff like, "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness"

@rl1416

Жыл бұрын

@Irene Kubitzky With your statement, I now wonder, if Lincoln did not preserve the Union and define what it is truly for, with tyrants like Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Polpot causing tremendous suffering and want to spread them, what kind of world would we have now?

@miramichi30

Жыл бұрын

@@rayr5950 Was the south being governed with the consent of the black population? Pretty sure that didn't happen for another hundred years after Lincoln.

@charleneki

Жыл бұрын

@@rayr5950 We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights that among them are life, liberty And the pursuit of happiness.

@rayr5950

Жыл бұрын

@@charleneki ??? Do you even know what was meant by those words at the beginning of the Preamble? Got some silly modern leftist notion that it literally encompassed everything? No one believed that. The founding generation understood the difference between the creator (God) and government, that all men being equal under God, and English freemen being equal under the law (government). The Declaration was simply a list of unresolved complaints, the Crowns “train of abuses” of the rights of the colonists under English law. The only viable choice called for the secession of the individual colonies from the English crown so they may regain their sovereignty.

Love the series. One of the most important achievements of Lincoln was the establishment of the supremacy of the Federal Government over that of the States. As was said in the introduction, the War made “are” an “is.” Thus, it’s impossible to separate Lincoln from the concentration of power at the Federal level. We could, and should, debate the merits of this, but you cannot deny Lincoln’s role in the expansion of government power.

@pigmanobvious

Жыл бұрын

Amen to that. FDR put it in high gear but it was old Abe who laid the groundwork.

@marchess286

Жыл бұрын

This erroneous view debunked in the interview by Mr. Ferguson. If Lincoln truly created a supreme federal government Reconstruction would have succeeded. If one wishes to identify the start of overwhelming federal government the best place to look is that racist, lost-causer Democrat, Woodrow Wilson.

@pigmanobvious

Жыл бұрын

@@marchess286 I never said he created in my opinion he nearly laid the seeds for a strong central government. I do agree with you on Wilson however.

@admashburn2543

Жыл бұрын

@@marchess286, I agree with your assessment of Wilson. Reconstruction is best analyzed through the lens of a counter-insurgency operation. It failed primarily due to lack of will from a Northern public that already sacrificed 300,000+ men to the cause. Poor leadership on the ground is another key component of the failure of Reconstruction.

@marchess286

Жыл бұрын

@@admashburn2543 - I think it is fair and helpful to analyze Reconstruction as a COIN campaign, although more of a non-lethal/RoL COIN. I also think it is true to attribute failure to lack of Northern will, in part, but only in part. I think it's worth considering that the Northern establishment/public lack of "will" was due to a rather accurate assessment of how effective the South might fight as an insurgency, a desire for normalcy and an unwillingness wage something as bloody as an counter-insurgency for the sake of equal rights for African-Americans. IMHO, Lincoln was possibly the greatest American. But, his political line, "just because I don't want a black woman as my slave doesn't mean I want her as my wife (paraphrasing)" was effective because it resonated (sadly) with a large part of the Northern public.

So nice they invited this young gentleman so he can explain how it was when he was young..

I've always respected and admired Lincoln, but do support the critical arguments from the right about him. What's annoying about modern culture is that they take those criticisms as if they're damnations, rather than lessons. Ferguson notes, for instance, that Lincoln didn't emancipate the Delaware and Maryland slaves because he was trying to follow the constitution. But it's entirely possible that it was because of politics: those states sided with the Union, their loyalty was somewhat tenuous, and it would have been unwise to upset them.

@jds614

Жыл бұрын

@@Mortalnomad Naw they didn't and those red necks had to get beat down to realize it Sorry You can't leave the country because you don't like the fact the people have decided to end slavery It was done via the democratic process..in which the south had a say/representation It's not taxation without representation aka the tyrannical king They lost in the ballot boxe and wished to take their ball and go home The south was wrong and frankly evil on he topic. Suck it up buttercup and learn how to have an economic model that doesn't rely on enslaving human beings Traitors and scum

@rayr5950

Жыл бұрын

The Emancipation Proclamation did nothing to free anybody, it had no force of law, it was war propaganda, it was unconstitutional which is why slaves in bondage in the Northern states were not included in the so-called Emancipation Proclamation. "Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was little more than a political gimmick, and he admitted so in a letter to Treasury Secretary Salmon P. Chase: "The original proclamation has no…legal justification, except as a military measure." Secretary of State William Seward said, "We show our sympathy with slavery by emancipating slaves where we cannot reach them and holding them in bondage where we can set them free. " Seward was acknowledging the fact that the Emancipation Proclamation applied only to slaves in states in rebellion against the United States and not to slaves in states not in rebellion."

@rayr5950

Жыл бұрын

@@Mortalnomad As historian Jeffrey Rogers Hummel said in his book, Emancipating Slaves, Enslaving Free Men, "The Civil War represents the simultaneous culmination and repudiation of the American Revolution" To think that anyone in a republic born out of secession from England would deny the right to self-determination, as was enshrined in the Declaration of Independence to any of its component sovereign states is crazy. Of course, there are a lot of crazy people in this world.

@timothymeehan181

7 ай бұрын

@@rayr5950 Begging your pardon, sir. But you have no idea what you’re talking about. Lincoln constitutionally justified the emancipation proclamation under the presidential war powers clause. Freeing the slaves of those states IN REBELLION, was equivalent of “seizing assets”. He admitted that, constitutionally, he had no power to disturb slavery in those slave states that remained loyal to the Union, ie-were not in rebellion. Also, the emancipation proclamation was only one move on the chessboard for Lincoln of an ongoing(work-in-progress, “situation is fluid”, etc) game. The end game was always the final end of slavery, which could only be accomplished by complete military victory, the destruction of the rebel army. Lincoln was, among other things, a master of timing and gauging public opinion, understanding exactly how far, and how fast he could go. I’m sorry if the situation, in all of its manifold complexity, is too complicated, and too nuanced, for your limited understanding(as it was for many at the time). The deeper one goes in studying Lincoln, in the context of his times, the more his genius and his greatness grows. Roll your sleeves up and dig deeper before spreading your specious revisionism & sophistry. PS- as to the right of secession, read Lincoln’s speech to Congress in special session, July 4, 1861. It addresses & answers every & any argument you or anyone else could possibly make on that subject. But just for shits & giggles, please cite the provisions in the Constitution that lay out the procedures for such secession…we’ll wait patiently for you. 🤣😂😎🙏🎩🇱🇷

As a proud Brit and Englishman, how on earth do you cancel Abraham Lincoln? Perhaps the greatest of all US Presidents, although I recognise that is open to debate.

Abraham Lincoln was my favourite dictator.

@bazzatheblue

Жыл бұрын

I liked his beard.

@rayr5950

Жыл бұрын

Americans love their dictators, the more tyrannical it seems, the more they are loved.

@timothymeehan181

7 ай бұрын

…..Said the guy who has probably never read a single biography of Lincoln, or any of his greatest political speeches, or studied American political history from the founding through the Civil War…😔

@d.jparer5184

7 ай бұрын

@@timothymeehan181 you don't need to have read biographies of Hitler or Mao to know that they were dictators. What gave Lincoln the right to make war on the south for succeeding from the union? There was nothing in the constitution that forbade succession, I wonder if any of those original states would have ever joined the union if they had known that within 100 years, they would be threatened with violence and crushed if they chose to leave. I often wonder what Washington would have said if he somehow could have seen what Tecumseh Sherman did to Atlanta. I think if any of the founding fathers had seen Atlanta burn they would have moved to Canada with the loyalists. The truth is that ever since the federal union of the u.s.a took shape, the rights of states would slowly be curtailed until they were amalgamated into one big super state like what you have now. If any of your states ever tried to succeed today (as is their right, a right which America would support anywhere else in the world), the u.s Military will destroy you. Nice country, cool values!

(On Lincoln _only_ wanting to free the slaves if they were _also deported_ ) he said smtg like: "Releasing them into Western Society _will Never Work."_ How did he know!?

History is indeed amazing. Ironic that in another continent someone had a similar vision to unite his continent...but this 'scandalised' the leaders from the land of Lincoln. What would be his foreign policy if he was president today...?

Would have been nice if Murray mentioned names of those who put Lincoln with Lee.

1984: IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

Can you add the guests’ titles and associated institutions in the show notes? These talks are wonderful and it would be nice to read the writings etc of the guests. Many thanks!

From Australia I would interested in another episode on Parkes the Father of Australian Federation. Please?

I do wish the evolving relationship between Lincoln and Frederick Douglass had been discussed.

Douglas Murray!

Masters of suspicion. (14:06)

Holy fuck!! What a giant of a man he was. Practically a God among men. God bless 🇺🇸 I wish I was an American.

@joshuataylor3550

Жыл бұрын

You're lucky you're not.

@khalidalali186

Жыл бұрын

Tell that to my Saudi existence.

"And the government of the People, by the People and for the People shall not perish from this earth." Why did Lincoln suggest that democracy would perish if the Southern States seceded? Democracy and willful allegiances rather than coerced allegiances are more democratic in nature...coercion is not democratic. BTW, the Southern States exercised Democracy when they seceded....with conventions and voting. "Today we are engaged in a great "civil war". A civil war is a war in which one group attempts to overthrow the current form or rule of government. The South sought a peaceful withdrawl from a previous agreement. VA RI and NY all contained language in their ratifications of the Constitution that they reserved the right to leave, to retake powers delegated to the federal experiment. When VA attempted to do so, they were invaded by the Union army.

A merry dance around the unfortunate point that you can't *begin* to appreciate the genius of Lincoln by simply looking at his various writing and statements outside the context of politics and the political climate of his age. This is where Jon Meacham's latest, And Let There Be Light, excels. It works *strenuosly* to put you into the prevailing and developing climate of Lincoln's day. Yes, we may think we know what Lincoln was saying but *more important* was what everyone else was, everywhere in the country. Lincoln as some hero exists in a sad vacuum, alas.

Please do a piece on the gradual decline and near elimination of funding and mandates for history education in schools

@charleneki

Жыл бұрын

Well it's like sex educatissue you better leave it to the parents ...otherwise you're probably going to get Leon Trotsky's version of American history.

Just 4 min. in and I have to comment. Whatever Lincoln said about why Americas were comparatively wealthy, I want to add these 2 points. 1] America was pushing the natives out of the way and so had empty land. This is not at all comparable to a land where the population has been close to carrying capacity for several generations. So, why not compare the US now to Europe now instead? 2] In 1860 the US and England were 110 years into the industrial revolution. This meant that it had access to a new concentrated energy source, coal. It also had more trees to burn than older nations did. It's not the same, but for example, a 42 gal barrel of oil represents the manual labor of a man working for about 5 years. So, of course, with all that energy America can have a better standard of living. . . I don't expect Pres. Lincoln to have known this last part, but the 1st part was there for all to see. But, he can't be expected to know that 160 years later the mass of Americans would be living paycheck to paycheck, with many tens of thousands being homeless.

At timestamp 11:45. There is a children's book mentioned. I want to get it for my daughter, but I can't make out the author. Can anyone post a link to purchase the book?

@TheBrianna4555

Жыл бұрын

"abraham lincoln" by d'aulaire

@Talamanca3

Жыл бұрын

@@TheBrianna4555 thank you!

@goldbug7127

Жыл бұрын

They, and I, read it in Best in Children's Books vol 1, 1957

There is a need to tear everybody down in this culture. You name them and I show you plenty of folks who bring out the garbage in a person. We are all fallen

About Lincoln's complexity: He counted in base-20 numbers. Four score ... etc. Any chance he was a Mayan?

Lincoln and Darwin were born on exactly the same day - 12 Feb 1809.

My hero. Lincoln was the greatest writer of the English language, the most erudite precise expression, sole author of every, word and, most important, momentous, progressive, commanding, liberal, atheist philosophy applied..... As, I think Seward, said to his fellow cabinet ministers after their first meeting "He is the best of us." He doesn't need a monument.

Hmm, he didn't mention who Lincoln had corresponded with. One of the many notable people Lincoln corresponded with was Queen Victoria of Great Britain and Czar Nicholas 1st of Russia.

Lincoln is essentially a Hamlet-like character. If a person actually takes the time to know & understand him(& Hamlet), what that person concludes about Lincoln(like Hamlet) tells us infinitely more about that person than either Lincoln or Hamlet. Which literally makes Lincoln an artist, or “work of art”…..& while we’re at at…Never trust a man who doesn’t like Hamlet, Lincoln, or dogs……🙏🇱🇷🎩🎭

I have mixed feelings about prioritizing the Union over all else, with slavery's abolition as the end that justified murderous means to abolish slavery by force, when the institution would've been abolished peacefully in a few years, without bloodshed. America might be a much better place if we LET states leave, and allow re-entry into the union if they want and agree to abide by the Constitution. If the federal government governed more lightly, maybe there'd be American states all over the world, by consent of their people.a Lincoln was a huge part of centralizing power, and centralization of power is one of our biggest problems, today. FDR took it to new levels and the power grab for expediency's sake has been the reason bad decisions - pathologically bad decisions - are visited upon EVERYONE. Federal agencies have unlimited power and run roughshod over people and common sense.

When was the Leviathan that we live under born? I would argue it was under FDR. If I lived before his reign, I would have said Lincoln. This in no way makes me a racist, but I guess nowadays if you're not being called a racist, you're probably a stooge of the regime.

@ralphy12345

Жыл бұрын

Now more than ever we need to have an open, honest conversation regarding Lincoln. Putting him on a pedestal and creating a myth surrounding him isn't helping.

@Say_When

Жыл бұрын

1913 with Woodrow Wilson and the progressive era.. income tax permanently instated, federal reserve, etc

Defending Lincoln but not mentioning Martin Delany or Frederick Douglass?!