As a Nigerian, my opinion on colonialism will be more nuanced than that of most westerners. On one hand, it was brutal in some ways but on the other it did play a huge role in bringing much of Africa into the modern age via introduction of modern tech, medicine, western education, and nation building. Also, one major good it did was abolish slavery. I cannot be more thankful for the British using their naval power and economic might to suppress the slave trade in Africa. Oh, I know they partook in it for a time, themselves, but it existed here long before whites ever came to Africa. Even my own ancestors of the Edo kingdom were slavers. What makes the British different is that unlike other regional African and Arab powers, they had the cultural & religious framework, wisdom, humanity and courage to actually stop the evil of slavery even at huge cost to their economy. God bless them.

david lloyd-jones

15 күн бұрын

I cannot speak for Nigeria - But in Kenya, the greater problem was not white rule per se - but rather the conflict generated by the marxists and their ideological war against capitalist oppression. It was the marxist ideology that fostered the cold war proxy wars of ideology upon the African stage. Much of the anti colonial sentiment expressed - then and now - is rooted in the exact same anti capitalist ideological fervor. Same in the west today and online - anti white, anti male, anti family, is anti colonial, is anti capitalism Race gets (sadly) caught up in the mix and made into an issue that 'matters' when behind the slogan it is really anti capitalism that really 'matters' Africa has suffered hugely from this conflict of ideologies - and still does Colonialism is largely a smoke screen

Stephen Brody

17 күн бұрын

@omowonuola opanike wrong

Brittany Hayes

21 күн бұрын

Ima just put it as a nuisance mixed bag. That's it. That's my citisdim of Colonialism. If this was kn the who ideology of "Progresiveism" I got a lot to say about it in comparison to the past and the current present and how very little has changed.

Cozumel

21 күн бұрын

Spanish colonization >>> british one

What a delight to listen to Douglas and his guests. I don't want these episodes to ever stop..

Leda Swan

Ай бұрын

I do

James Miller

Ай бұрын

I'm afraid that they will so I make sure that share them and get the word out. This one was mind-blowing. I even found myself laughing at some points because I know how badly some of the things said here will piss certain people off.

The fact is that many of the British colonies were very well run. Rhodesia was once called the Switzerland of Africa. It had a highly developed infrastructure, including first class hospitals, a highly professional and dedicated civil service. It was also the bread basket of central Africa. Corruption was practically unheard of. As Zimbabwe the country has become a failed state constantly on the brink of starvation brought down by a gang of half-baked Marxists groomed by the Chinese who are now gnawing on the bones of what’s left. This is the truth. I know it because I was there.

Cozumel

21 күн бұрын

@John Taplin But all that advancement was for an élite of people, not for most people. (The same in England, I guess that an average poor englismen's life was more similar to a slave in a colony than to a rich man in England) Obviously the ones who suffer are always the unfortunate, for them the only change is the regime, not their condition. I think we all agree that whenever a population conquers another one nothing ethically can be saved, the "yes they were terrible but..." doesn't exist, regarding the treatment of the unfortunate And imperial empires work thinking they've improved the conquered's life since the first large empire the Assyrian one, and we all have conquered and conquerors blood in us We all care now because the British empire has been the last one in the modern world and probably the West is the first culture to have dominate all the world, so we don't think about the atrocities of the Ottoman Empire or the Mongolian one because their dominions weren't the seeds for what is now the modern world However now I'll be giving my personal opinion, I don't consider the British Empire as the Roman empire or even the Spaniard empire, since those did their usual atrocities and, contemporary, brought a culture, a sensibility. It's the human history On the other hand the british empire embodies the materialistic zeitgeist of their time and the most semplistic and shallow philosophy of Western culture: positivism I'm not the first one to criticize it, since its time society regarded it as useless

Dheeraj Thapliyal

Ай бұрын

@the ghostwriter your sense of cheeky humor, is clap worthy sir. Well said

the ghostwriter

Ай бұрын

Hey, the American south was run pretty well from the 16th to the 19th century

Dheeraj Thapliyal

Ай бұрын

Did the lovely Rohedian government, provide the benefits of this excellent hospital system and civil service attention to the majority blacks? Or was it more a case of we like the Afrikaans?

What's compelling about Gilley is he is so intellectually centered regarding his interest in truth of history and the principles of his field. The whole 'culture war' and the wokism that is lined up against him seems to just run off his back like water. There's no axe to grind or reactive stance that would undoubtedly consume others. He displays an admirable degree of personal integrity.

Brittany Hayes

19 күн бұрын

I just think he give a interesting perspective whike the left leaning historians tend to be against there hike country.

Unsubtle Major Dictator

2 ай бұрын

@NathanLPaylor centred, normally means firmly situated or on solid ground.

david lloyd-jones

2 ай бұрын

@NathanLPaylor Agreed it was clumsy and imprecise - and my response was equally clumsy and imprecise - . and whislt i am not an authority as to what was originally meant - i do think my stab at it was pretty reasonable - in fact i would - could say that my respnse was 'intellectually centered. PS - not that the word used was centered - not center. And no, centered does not equal objective - but it does likely mean - or lean toward non biased. PPS - the comment by KB seems to have hit a chord too - so if you would prefer the word consensual as opposed to objective - that sounds reasonable too - no problem

NathanLPaylor

2 ай бұрын

@david lloyd-jones thanks. And am I missing something about how being in the ‘centre’, intellectual, pertains to objectivity? Strikes me as a clumsy and imprecise Americanism, that could mean anything to anyone.

K B

2 ай бұрын

@david lloyd-jones Spot on.

Currently, in Hong Kong, you have people wanting the British to return because Chinese Imperialism is so much more suffocating than British colonialism ever was. Such has turned out to be the case in many countries.

Dheeraj Thapliyal

10 күн бұрын

@Michael Schmidt I admire your health care work in PNG. Undoubtedly you made a serious positive difference to the lives of people over your career. Let's pause the languages abilities for a moment (impressive) as yours are. I speak Mandarin too. But again I ask you, if you rely on "compared to what" If the colonists as expressed in this video we're coming in to make a truly let's bring the heathen to the fold attitude, should we, can you? Hold them to the same benchmark set by the local conditions they faced? The treaties you mentioned in one of your previous comments, by that logic, is it fair for a country to turn up (uninvited mind you) to "help" or was it really just taking advantage. As for your experience with the Chinese, many of them are people who just want to get on with their lives like the rest of us. Though I do have sympathy, the experience you faced in PNG, is similar to the reason why many of the 53 countries across the world who have local police stations, suddenly don't like them very much. Dare you to guess which country has the most and if you get it right, ask yourself Why they would have ever allowed it. Don't let current Chinese behaviour, which is untenable, allow to colour in your mind, the simple question, "better than what" respect of sovereignty or taking advantage of inter country conflict actually means. You wouldn't have wanted France or England interrupting civil wars in your country (Napoleon and various Kings did try) Apply the same rules your own constitutions write please, with your evaluation with other countries. You want immigrants into your countries to come legally and play by the rules. Did the colonisers? Or did they just take things that they wanted? Interesting if a visa would be allowed for that kind of behavior, even if the visa holders, came from the "enlightened and superior"

Michael Schmidt

10 күн бұрын

@J S Yes. As an indication of my experience. I speak Cantonese and Mandarin and have lived in Hong Kong (10 years) and Beijing (3 years) ... and I spent 2 years in Papua New Guinea setting up medical clinics. What has that got too do with it? I see and have seen how the Chinese treat the local PNG - I have listened to their talk and chastised them for their behavior - and then they tell me to f&)k off and call me a 'white pig' - and then I reply, not in English, but in their own language - and it shocks the hell out of them. So, respectfully sir - you have no idea what you are talking about but I do. I have seen the real racism, the real 'colonialism', the real 'imperialism' up close and in my face. You have no idea how lucky you are. Incidentally I was there in Madang when 2 Chinese shop owners were lynched by an angry mob; I watched it with my own two eyes. I was there in Buka when a village elder told me that the locals were going to rise up and burn down the shops of the Chinese bc of their behaviors'. I, sir, understand.

J S

10 күн бұрын

@Michael Schmidt when you say " Chinese Imperialism is so much more suffocating than British colonialism ever was", do you factor in the British drug trafficking? The Opium Wars

Stephen Brody

17 күн бұрын

@Woody10719 anyone living there. You must not own access to a computer or television. Ask anyone living there. Having been there before and after. Many times. Not to many protests like you have had. The current laws favoring mainland Chinese law..

Absolutely fascinating - thanks both. My uni is going through decolonisation and as a biologist, I'm not equipped to properly resist, even though I can identify obvious flaws e.g. that many of the ideas behind decolonisation are at least contested - we require erudite debate. Of that, there has been little.

Jonathan Barraclough

3 ай бұрын

@Gareth Wilkinson please explain your. As it stands the two sentences seem to be at odds.

Jonathan Barraclough

3 ай бұрын

@Mal Preece agreed very closed minds. It did however prepare me for my first steps in the Corporate world or worse my Professional training firm.

WOW. Douglas, this is a fantastic interview (and series). Your discussion with Bruce goes beyond the superficial and provides a much needed overview from someone who truly understands his subject and isn't afraid to provide facts that contradict the "narrative." It's exactly the type of interview that's been missing from KZread. Many thanks for all of the care and hard work you've put into this series. I look forward to watching (and recommending) all of these discussions.

plekkchand

Ай бұрын

@AminTheMystic It seems to be that the entire interview goes beyond the superficial in critically examining the widely adapted assumption that colonialism is ipso facto evil. Of course, the author is incapable of the kind of profundity -indeed omniscience-you yourself exhibit when you predict the future, revealing that the author won't submit to debate but merely "carp on Twitter" . That is truly impressive, and I do hope you'll condescend to let us hear more from you in the future.

Abigail Slade

Ай бұрын

Obviously that’s why he did this interview😏

AminTheMystic

2 ай бұрын

@jumble stiltskin yes. but he won't. this academic sits on twitter carping.

jumble stiltskin

2 ай бұрын

I'd love to see a proper debate between this chap and those on the other side of it.

Giving this a pre-emptive thumbs up based on the excellent quality of the discussion on General Lee. I'm DEEPLY appreciative of Douglas (who's long been one of my favorite contemporary social commentators in any case) and all those involved for making intellectual discourse available on these subjects. Thanks a million!!

Nebulous Media

4 ай бұрын

Happy to hear it, Dave! Thanks for watching

In NZ in pre-European times, Maori were "colonising"" neighbouring tribes and sticking them in the ground oven. Radical Maori academics will say that this was a spiritual cultural practice. Actually, as Neil Oliver wrote in a recent book, eating and then defecating your enemy was the greatest dishonour. The British manifestly did not eat the colonised peoples, rather it was the other way round.

mogznwaz

23 күн бұрын

I found it amusing on a trip to NZ when a tour guide said it was lucky the British got to Australia before the Maori or the only aboriginals left would be in history books

dave the wave

Ай бұрын

Some good comments on NZ here. Boy, do we currently need some more videos like this... and a proper understanding of history. The radicals are geeting pretty well entrenched in our politics now. My take: sure, honor the Treaty by not allowing the original intent and meaning of it to be dishonored by the radical re-interpretation of it.

Chris Elliott

Ай бұрын

I kind of took some of this decolonisation attitude on board for a while and began to think that the missionaries to NZ had let the Maori down in terms of not truly understanding the teachings of Christ and basically "working for the man". I shared this with a Maori friend of mine one day. His response, "Bro, if it hadn't been for the missionaries, we would've just fought to the death ...."

Benedict Brunker

Ай бұрын

In NZ the Maori succeeded in fighting the British to accepting official treaties. The Maori people are much better off today because of this. Across the sea in Australia, the indigenous peoples were unable to secure similar treaties, and in parts of the country were simply wiped out completely. Violence is the only language the colonisers understand.

_WOW....amazing to see someone who trades with Mrs Rose Gardner i am currently on my 7th trade with her and my portfolio has grown tremendously_

Lucy Weilbel

Ай бұрын

You can communicate her on here telegrm page.

chelsie walker

Ай бұрын

sorry but,,.. I have been trying get around trading market, some say its lot like local market, I don't understand, how can I reach this woman please?

Douglas is probably my favorite public intellectual. I love Jordan Peterson, but Douglas is so well-spoken and sharp and has a humor and depth that is unparalleled

Chad Johns

Ай бұрын

@the ghostwriter Sure thing, what have you done worth noting that you're the expert. What a hateful and poorly thought out attack

She didn't presumably make her objection known through the form of interpretive dance, did she?" 🤣 Murray is gold.

Jon Button

Ай бұрын

Wickedly incisive humor, that.... 😄😄

Quint Bromley

Ай бұрын

@Bill King So true! I feel for you guys over there in Rush country, but we in the states aren't too far behind, sadly.

Bill King

Ай бұрын

@Quint Bromley You will love it, and it took place right here in Canada - the Global Epicentre of Politically-Correct Lunacy.

Sir Rather Splendid

3 ай бұрын

@Quint Bromley - Enjoy!

I really love Douglas Murray, I've read every one of his books several times and I try to read as many articles of his that I can. However, in the recent years, I've become increasingly bored with all the woke stuff. While I agree with him on all of it, I'm so tired of hearing the same things over and over again. I expected this to be in the same vein but it was actually a really insightful video. I learned a lot and I will definitely be reading some of Bruce Gilley's works!

lowell418

2 ай бұрын

Check out Gilley's KZread video "Why they loved Hitler".

Sir Rather Splendid

3 ай бұрын

Hearing about the woke nonsense is certainly tiring and increasingly depressing. Every week it just seems to get worse. But occasionally, interviews appear that shine a bright light in the darkness - the last such was when Dr Gilley appeared on the Triggernometry podcast. Well worth a look-see!

Mili

3 ай бұрын

@Captain Teabag agreed, I dont blame him either. obviously want him to make as much money as possible; but hopefully that will eventually allow him enough freedom to go back to writing about other things

Captain Teabag

3 ай бұрын

I understand what you mean, but if Douglas is offered a couple of grand every time he's invited on podcasts/news channels to be the voice of reason, I don't blame him for accepting.

Per Person

3 ай бұрын

Agreed

Thank you very much for this brilliant and fascinating discussion around Colonialism. For me, an enlightening and very welcome series - look forward to the next episode.

Abigail Slade

Ай бұрын

@Jan Bohanes in many cases those materials were used to create infrastructure in the very countries which the materials came from. In fact having multiple colonies meant that where one colony was short of a raw good another would have an abundance and the one lacking would gain access to goods that would have been almost impossible for them to gain previously.

Jan Bohanes

2 ай бұрын

@Joshua Taylor Well, obviously sweeping statements like these don't enable a nuanced, rigorous discussion

Jan Bohanes

3 ай бұрын

Very interesting and well-conducted interview, great speakers. However, I missed a discussion of the alleged economic exploitation of colonies by the colonial powers, transfer of raw materials and other forms of wealth, etc. That is a major point of modern criticism of the colonial era and it would have been interesting to hear both speakers on that issue.

Carolyn B.

4 ай бұрын

Thank you @Nebulous Media Liked and subscribed!

Subscribed after episode 1. Sharing with all my friends after episode 2. What a breath of fresh air. Thank you to Douglas Murray and Nebulous Media for putting out this content.

theinngu

3 ай бұрын

💯…so much is accepted and spouted nowadays as truth without proof or knowledge. Thank goodness there are those who are wiser and present a truer picture.

I may be the worst history student who ever lived. Certainly, my high school history teachers thought so. However, I've had this vague idea that the world has always been colonial, or tribal or something akin to that. Everywhere, all the time, until recently. And I've also wondered what things would have been like if not for the British Empire, etc. Thank you so much for this!

Abigail Slade

Ай бұрын

Exactly.

Kurtlane

Ай бұрын

No, not until recently. It's going on right now. Russian war on Ukraine is pure colonialist. Chinese occupation of Tibet, East Turkestan, Hong Kong, potentially Taiwan. Turkish demands for Greece to surrender some of its islands. Etc.

Kai Pepper

2 ай бұрын

​@Kammy Cordner On what do you base your assertions about Queen Victoria and the powerful males (aka men) who surrounded her? In what way was she the "worst in history"? I would be most interested in knowing your sources.

Kammy Cordner

2 ай бұрын

I think you are right about the always tribal thing. It is the nature of man. And I do mean "man". Women have not led these forays of colonialism, ever. One might argue Queen Victoria was the worst in history, and under her rule GB was at its peak violence, true. However, she was surrounded by powerful (male) subjects, aristocrats, who wanted their time to shine and get rich - all for Queen and country, of course, nudge nudge wink wink. She could not fully command the ways of powerful men, so she had to give them a bit of free rein to keep them loyal to and supportive of her. So were they doing what their masculinity and wealth-seeking drove them to do, or what they were commanded to do by a woman??? She was thousands of miles and months of sailing away from their actions. What could she know, or influence?

Kai Pepper

2 ай бұрын

@DieFlabbergast do you mean "licence" or are you American?

Wonderfully refreshing interview, Bruce Gilley is a gem! Thank you mr. Murray.

Joshua Taylor

2 ай бұрын

Wonderfully racist

Excellent interview. I've watched Bruce Gilley on his own channel, but his insight and understanding was brought to a higher pitch in this interview, thanks to Douglas Murrays intelligent listening and questioning. The conclusion that the "Anti's" are driven by resentment to spread their intellectual fog is spot on.

Well done Bruce / Douglas - hit those bedwetters right in the gonads with facts, balanced discussion and truth. God Save The King.

Thanks for having these conversations Douglas. Alternative viewpoints and interpretations of these controversial topics are necessary and almost impossible to have in real life here in the Caribbean. You’d never hear this discussed at the University of the West Indies I’ll also add this: our French neighbors (Martinique, Guadeloupe and French Guiana) see what has happened to their Anglo neighbors (Trinidad, Jamaica) and see their future if the metropolitan government left. They’d be dysfunctional best case like us, or a disastrous catastrophe like Haiti at worst. They sensibly avoid independence like the plague.

Thanks for starting this series I'm really enjoying the concept as it delves into topics/people that I had only known in a shallow way. I like the framing of 'rounder' explanation, as its non-accusatory/inflammatory and shows the necessity of understanding a whole and its context. Although I did not have any concrete opinions about colonialism in the past I was caused to muse to myself that it must surely be hard to condemn something, while also maintaining that you cannot talk about it. It seems any condemnation without context is sure to loose any meaning or cultural impact over time. Subscribed.

Brilliantly informative. Having spent many weeks walking and hitchhiking through the Congo, was intrigued by the bit about the Congo Free State, pre-1908. When you consider there were never more than 200 white ‘administrators’ in the Congo at one time, you can be sure the figure of 10,000,000 is sheer fantasy, an invented number. Looking forward to reading the new book!

Sir Rather Splendid

15 күн бұрын

@L- Kin - You mean sentries to protect the plantations?

L- Kin

15 күн бұрын

They had Congolese sentries that were trained with muskets.

Robert Daniels

Ай бұрын

An interesting "what if" General Chinese Gordon had gone to the Belgian Congo instead of Khartoum in the Sudan, considering how it all ended the Congo was a whole different beast

Ingold

2 ай бұрын

There is one other possibility open, that it was the native auxiliaries who used their newfound military superiority to run roughshod over the population. The colony was run on a budget so little more than the bare minimum of oversight could be afforded, while the other European colonies in Africa were vanity projects funded by states. Since the ex-colonial military imposed a ruthless kleptocracy mere years after the Belgians pulled out it's not much of a stretch.

Tragic that this conversation seems like a revelation....and yet it was the normal understanding 50+ years ago...but thank you for this channel. 10 mins listening and immediately subscribed.

Another superb discussion. Well done to all involved. Great series.

The world still has a chance so long as this kind of interview can be had and aired. Enjoyed the interview immensely (bought his book).

How refreshing to see something like this on youtube. Keep it up Douglas Murray, you are a credit to our civilization!

Outstanding discussion. I learnt a great deal from that. Amazing how much one can learn when open discussion & debate is allowed! Thank you.

Murray is a refreshing inspiration. Thank you.

I loosely quote Murray few years back… “Those ideologically against the global American hegemony… just wait, you’re gonna love the Chinese hegemony.” 😆

A wonderful interview, thank you both very much. I actually am that hated figure, a colonialist! Born, brought up and educated in Kenya I had the most wonderful childhood, not mainly among my own white tribe, but amongst the indigenous peoples. The Mau Mau was a cruel and unnecessary horror as the country was galloping fast towards a freedom for all. And Kenya today is a good place to live, safer than the U.K.

david lloyd-jones

15 күн бұрын

@L- Kin Aha - asanti - so that now explains a few blank faces!! Bure kabissa - somehow hapana bora!!

L- Kin

15 күн бұрын

@david lloyd-jones bora means very good. The word you're looking for is bure

Kai Pepper

2 ай бұрын

@Sean dineen999 yes, there were. The Maasai, for instance, offered to help hunt the Mau Mau down. Some of the Kikuyu elders and hundreds of innocent Kikuyus were killed by the Mau Mau. There are many tribes in Kenya; not only were they not involved but they were also deeply opposed & revolted by the oath taking.

Kai Pepper

2 ай бұрын

Jambo, rafiki! I also grew up in Kenya, where my grandparents went after WW1, & lived through the Mau Mau. I equate the Russian atrocities of today with those of the M.M. then. The intention of the Colonial administration of the 3 territories of Kenya, Uganda & Tanganyika was to make them fit to govern themselves at the earliest possible opportunity but thanks to MacMillan independence was rushed through at least 10 years too soon, leading to the problems in governance seen thereafter.

I think our modern form of historical censorship is doing a lot of damage to our current political and social makeup. Since people nowadays don't seek to understand both the positives and negatives of different ideologies & the real world effects they've had it hurts our path forward. I think this channel is a lovely step in the right direction & I can't wait to see some more enlightening conversations.

Hello Douglas. Thank you! I've read your books and look forward to receiving Bruce Gilley's book on Colonialism. I am a huge supporter of Britain and the Commonwealth and will be better equipped to defend it.

This has been a brilliant conversation. Thank you.

Finally an adult discussion

Ask Yeshka

2 ай бұрын

@Joshua Taylor Tjhat was not at all my perception. They could care less if people disagree or not. There emotional about not being able to state there case without being attacked. Thje attacks are always ugly as ther character assasinate rather than listening to a perspective that is not allowed to be stated without backlash. L/Chaim

Joshua Taylor

2 ай бұрын

They get very emotional about those that disagree with them...

High school teacher here in a very conservative Catholic school. Our textbooks repeat these lies, too. The Belgian Congo is the perfect example. We must not let sensationalism and ignorance supplant real learning!

semilio1

Ай бұрын

@Dheeraj Thapliyal I wanted to get an answer from Mattison Hale since he is a high school teacher in a conservative school.

Dheeraj Thapliyal

Ай бұрын

@semilio1 I'd like to follow up on this point. The atrocities committed by the Belgians in the Congo are some of the worst ever recorded. Thumbs cut off, people burnt alive, children raped and killed, if the quota of work wasnt met. This is all publicly available information, you can see pictures and documented evidence of this. What on earth do you mean this is lies? It's scary and honestly sad, that we even have to debate what happened to the Congolese people during Belgian rule

semilio1

Ай бұрын

What are the lies about the Belgian Congo?

When I was in highschool we were taught that there were pros and cons to colonialism. Indigenous people suffered to some extent but also benefitted from being colonized. We accepted this as common sense. Any teacher who says this today would practically be signing his own resignation letter because he'd be fired for suggesting such a thing.

Square riggin'

Ай бұрын

The reason the current heavy swing towards militancy against those who don't decry colonialism is that the Indigenous cultures whom we subjugated and also co-existed with had not yet had a chance to use their own voices to give their side of the story. The way we were taught about colonialism in Canadian schools in the 90's was this sort of pros and cons thing you're talking about, but that curriculum was created by the same government that was still running residential schools where priests raped and abused Indigenous children on a daily basis, and forced them to learn English and would punish them if they spoke their own langauge. Schools that were created with the stated direct aim of assimilating first nations into our society by destroying their traditions. Not much honor or goodness in that my friend, theres just not. Yes historically Colonialism came with some benefits, such as technology exchange, knowledge exchange both ways, especially in the early days, when the Spanish and English were exploring and charting the west coast. There were historic collaborations between Captains Quadra, Vancouver and Chief Maquinna on Vancouver island. This is simply not the time to bring those things up, we have to read the room, and listen to those who have suffered at the hands of our government. Balance will come back, but not until we reckon with the mistakes of our country. The easy way to live is to just say, it was good and bad, lets move on, but this is pretty insensitive when heavy abuses were still going on completely unreconciled in the 90's. It's not hard to listen for awhile, and walk in anothers shoes.

mito . . .

Ай бұрын

to some extent..,,, *sigh*

Mitali Chinmulgund

Ай бұрын

@Marine Guyz at what?

Marine Guyz

Ай бұрын

@Mitali Chinmulgund look deeper

Olive Oil

Ай бұрын

@Infinitely infinite The provision of clean, drinkable water and more sanitary conditions was really one of the biggest positive influences of the times.

Great courage for taking this head-on. In context of India/Bharat, it never amazes me think these Brits guts to say they are superior or advanced civilisation. These were humans who just realised 500 years before than sun doesn’t rotate around earth. Their confidence just amazes me.

Raiha Marsden

Ай бұрын

@Hrushaabh Mishra lol

Hrushaabh Mishra

Ай бұрын

colonialism rescued the Indian heritage. What an amazing circumspection !

Listening to this reminds me of how much we have lost now that such nuanced views are taboo. I rather feel the answer is to stop cowing to accusations of so called racism, and instead simply accept them. Then get on with the task of ridding our institutions of these ideologues. I like the idea of chartered spaces as a more modern and progressive form of colonialism.

Thank you Professor Gilley! As Douglas said, this was a fascinating talk. I'm interested in hearing more about your work. I found your comments about the Portuguese and Belgians being in Africa very interesting. The general public always hear too much about the major players in history and not enough about the smaller players and the average person.

Fantastic episode. Keep it up guys and always a pleasure to listen to Douglas.

Bruce Gilley's 'The Last Imperialist' is a great book and I've already asked for his second book on the subject matter 'In Defense of German Colonialism' for Christmas!

This is an interesting discussion. Worth thinking about, especially when thinking about human nature and our propensity to dominate and control.

His vaccine argument is brilliant. Academia has become an institution that does not allow “shorting”. All the investments are dubious because no one is allowed to bet against them. If no one was allowed to bet against stocks and you could only talk up the stocks, the market would be nothing more than hot air. It’s too bad that that is what our universities have become: Hot air. If it weren’t so important, this would be funny. Why? Because it could be so easily fixed. The sad thing is, if you think about it, it is going to be very difficult for academia to fix their woke ism. The fix is easy, but the will to fix it…….Ah, That’s the hard part.

What a wonderful discussion. The intelligence and erudition of Murray and Gilley gives so much pleasure. The inability of the woke generation to ignore, misunderstand or re-write history is frankly appalling. Subscribed!

paddy864

3 ай бұрын

Superb! I shall be buying his book on Sir Alan Burns.

Flirv Loukti

3 ай бұрын

Oh yes, yes, yes. It almost feels liberating.

MackerelCat

3 ай бұрын

@patrick eromoboryou obviously didn’t listen to the conversation

Archduke Abino Coonixus

3 ай бұрын

Its soooooo nice.., putting it on repeat and playing it all night

I am so glad you are doing this. As a HS teacher and someone who got a history degree almost no pro of colonialism were/ are ever mentioned. Once I got an econ MA and really thought about opportunity cost it really became clear that History is complicated. Costs and benefits. Half way through, well done.

A spitfire of a man. Would love to read a book from him covering the history of colonialism as a whole

Obman's History Project

2 ай бұрын

There's so many perspectives and so much history to dig, it depends on the person that does the digging to build their perspective. I have my own perspective and channel and I haven't gotten to colonialism on video yet because I'm starting from the beginning. But I'll get there eventually. I have tons of resources and notes though that form my own story.

Profound, scholarly, and insightful. Should have gone viral.

Wow. Fantastic discussion. Prof. Gilley's book is on the way, too. Can't wait to read it, and probably his newer one mentioned about German Colonialism.

Thanks Doug for having the balls to publish this.

Brilliant! Thank you for this amazin episode!

Enjoyed this discussion between 2 good men,with respect for each other.I have learned a considerable amount of of history of empires. Would love to have more of these 2. Thanks indeed.

Nebulous Media

2 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

The interesting thing about the way that Gilley ruffles feathers is that nobody seems to be claiming that he's a crackpot. They can only bemoan his conclusions.

I could watch Douglas Murray interview Carrot Top, or Meghan Markel, or even that “uncut jams” girl, all day long. To listen to him interview the cats on this series is such a treat

Quite amazing. I love to hear about these alternative perspectives which help to reshape my ideas about the past. Thank you, great conversation, highly educational.

Gosh, this is a bit grown up for the 2020s! Measured and informed - very old fashioned. Thank you.

Great discussion. Feel quite proud of the old empire now. Not an exercise in perfection obviously, but an important step in the advancement of many ares of our world.

Under tribal law the headman had the power of life and death. A husband could accuse his wife of unfaithfulness and given the corruption the wife would be mutilated or killed. This stopped with the introduction under the British of two tier law, civil law and criminal law.

A revelation about the Belgians and the Congo. Can't wait to read the atrocity story rebuttal.

Wonderful discussion, thank you! I could have listened to this for so much longer than an hour.

Very interresting that writing an article brings on an angry mob. Some topics are not safe. Who will dare to write about them? Bruce Gilley. I need to read his work.

Gilley is clearly well studied and a wealth of historical knowledge. I loved the cold objectivity of his insights. Just the facts…

Great discussion, as always. An academic example of the Streisand effect!

This is great and I will definitely watch it several times. I recently bought a framed map of the world for my living room and have set myself a goal for the next three years to learn the true history of every country in it. The discussions below are also helpful, although Mr. Omowonuola Opanike is somewhat long-winded.

Spot on. I remember reading (in a biography of Lord Salisbury I think), that in at the start of the 20th century the long term plan of the India Office was for India to become a self governing Dominion along the lines of Australia and Canada in the 1980s. Not quite sure about the idea that the early empires got the best and easiest "bits". Gilley mentioned the Portuguese in the context of being late to the table. Is he referring to the same Portuguese that pioneered the coastal exploration of Africa and penetration into Asia via the Indian Ocean in the 16th century? The same Portugal that kick started the British Raj when they gave Bombay to Charles II as part of his wedding dowry in the 17th century? Yeah, not sure they were "late to the table".

Douglas, your voice is needed in the regular podcast sphere. Please keep this up

Thank you for some sane discussion on the subject at last!

Superb as ever from Douglas Murray.

Thank you for your insight and clarity with this guest

I could just listen to Bruce Gilley all day long!

I am reading Bruce Gilley's book 'The Last Imperialist' and it is really good.

Fascinating discussion. Thank you.

Bruce Gilley, we need you. Thanks for writing books for the rest of us.

I'm from New Zealand and I can unequivocally say that British colonialism was the best thing that happened here.

Doug Bradley

Ай бұрын

Never ending treaty settlements! When will that end?

WOW! Rare that I listen for the whole hour of anything. That was a great conversation. Thank you.

This channel needs more eyes on it. Douglas is great as always.

brilliant channel, keep the great videos coming

Love the series. Not sure you can put the Brits in with other European Empires imho. I'm obviously bias haha but it's been my experience working all over the world the Brits are still generally loved in the commonwealth.

The Bantu example is a good one. I'm from South Africa so I learned this stuff in school, back in the day. I doubt that they are still teaching it. The Bantu especially under the Zulus made no bones about what they were about. Basically might made right `. They conquered a lot of smaller tribes violently and make them Zulus, if they liked it or not. Then the Voortrekkers (white people who spoke mostly a form of Dutch) came up from the southern part of SA , trying to get away from the English yoke. See what is going on here? They bumped into the Zulu (Shaka is probable the most well known member), Xhosa (Nelson Mandela's tribe) , Sotho, Matabele (disenfranchised Zulus) etc . It was a messy business (lots of fighting and nastiness) but ultimately the Voortrekkers prevailed and there we go again. There are no clean hands in this business.

Bill King

Ай бұрын

Something like this happened in Canada too. When the first Europeans arrived, the Iroquois, a powerful warrior tribe, were advancing eastward and conquering less powerful tribes. Conquering meant assimilating some and murdering the rest. Samuel de Champlain was welcomed by the Alqonquin peoples because he offered protection against the Iroquois.

Thomas Sowell has spoken and written extensively and eloquently on this subject for many years. His voice needs to be more widely heard. Good show Douglas.

Fascinating! More of this please!

Fantastic interview. I almost want to take a screenshot of the two of you and set it as my desktop background.

Wow! I'm so happy I stumbled on this; maybe there's still hope for the human race and Western Civilisation. The only thing that made me extremely angry was where he said (~ 15:10) that Western Civilisation is abjectly and objectively superior to all others - I wanted to say that myself as if I invented the wheel. (In the end I was so rushed to record the video that I forgot to even mention it). I absolutely love Murray; Gilley is brilliant.

This is fascinating.There is governance colonialism. And there is corporate governance. Corruption within business and government circles has been a topic of conversation with African businessmen that I have encountered. In effect, they are repeating the problems that we have here.

Great show and the guest was top notch. Thank you.

Kai Pepper

2 ай бұрын

He also wore a tie & looked professional & respectful. He sold me on his viewpoint.

As a Russian (and British for the last 28 years) I DO have a problem with British Empire… Why on Earth you didn’t come to Russia and invade us?!😖 We would have lived like Canada or Alaska by now, probably even better considering our natural resources, and would have fed the whole world. Would have had a well established democracy, no Gulag, and possibly neither WWII would have happened. And certainly no invasion in Ukraine…😢

snowflakemelter

2 ай бұрын

I agree that Russia could have been part of Europe and no West versus East conflict would ever have been necessary if the revolution hadn't happened, communism was self harm in the end.

Madonnalitta1

3 ай бұрын

Because it's too cold. Even for an Englishman.

Michael Walker

3 ай бұрын

They did invade in 1919 but were beaten back by the Bolsheviks, along with the United States.

Belgian Congo

3 ай бұрын

Nobody is blaming the Russian citizens for what is happening in Ukraine, we know that the leaders of both our worlds are behind this conflict, and Russia is also part of the great European civilizations, remember the first human in space was a Russian.

Scott

3 ай бұрын

I’ve read a futurist writing in 1901 about the world of 2001 (among many accurate predictions) he thought the two most spoken languages worldwide would be English and Russian… How different the world would be if the 20th century played out less tragically for Russia.

This video is awesome, thank you Douglas Murray. Prof. Gilley is brilliant.

I wonder whether the criminals that issued the death threats against the Third World Quarterly editors have been subjected to criminal prosecution.

Civilization A was not always superior to all instances of Civilization B or all aspects that Gilley speaks about. For example NZ Indigenous women had far more mana with individual land rights (which is why intermarriage was seen as mutually beneficial - settlers got access to land and locals gained access to new knowledge and technology) than their Victorian counterparts. Traditional parenting models dissuaded corporal punishment. This method of discipline was introduced by Victorian imperialists. So in some aspects civilization B was far less brutal by today's acceptable standards. Now, colonialisation did bring modern technology which should have balanced the negative impacts, and indeed it did for a time. I agree that the pre colonised societies were not the Garden of Eden not by European accounts, but by our own Indigenous accounts. European settlers brought many ideas and technologies that were appealing, and the Indigenous took them up enthusiastically. Unfortunately, colonization in practice is what brings all the negative interpretations that exist today. I think Gilley's contextual view of racism is correct, in that all peoples had a view of to whom they were superior including inter-tribally. As the view of post missionary colonialist superiority grew, fueled by mass settlement, more oppressive laws were introduced to separate Indigenous peoples from their resources. It was at this point that the Indigenous and the colonial government parted ways. More oppressive laws led to mass divorcing of people from their lands, and hence we are still settling grievances today. All this said, I believe the historical subjugation of a people under a colonial rule does not mean that we can't still have a conversation or debate about the benefits or disbenefits of wider colonialism.

Paddy Larkin

3 ай бұрын

The Maori ate the indigenous peoples of New Zealand; hows that for a bit of superior colonisation?

Great conversation, thank you Douglas!

I'm a Yank, but the only word I have for your new series is "brilliant."

Something that needs to be remembered is that Sub Saharan Africa never had an industrial revolution and still dos'nt. Almost all technical development is imported.

What a great discussion. Thanks for this

This is becoming my favorite channel.

British colonialism rescused many places from portuguese, spanish, french and muslim imperialism and in time stamped out the idea that slavery was acceptable. For those who think no culture is superior to another just try to explain emigration.- especially the direction of it.

Douglas, Mr Gilley, thanks so much. I heard the name and short version due to hanging out in the better neighborhoods on Twitter. Now I get to know the FULL Argument. AK NATION NEWS and AK NATION TV consists of a mixed race crowd of Black people who HATE what the woke religion is doing to them. It's mostly not academic intellectuals (a few) but just ordinary people from the hood with open eyes and the ability to see and read. I learned some of the same for European colonies from some of them showing and discussing jails and prisons throughout Africa. Some of those were built by Europeans to hold 800, now holding 8000. (Maybe slight exaggeration but in that ballpark.)

Being an Indian my perspective differ. This interview is triggering at times but i forced myself to listen because understanding a contrasting viewpoint is important. I do agree with some of the points , but history will always judge you from what happened and not an alternate reality of what could have happened ...if imperialism wasnt there. I have seen british built officers club in shimla with preserved signboards saying dogs and indians not allowed. I have been to Jallianwala baag massacre site where 1000s of peaceful protesters including women and children were gunned down. The man called Gandhi ..who he nonchalently called a fool is revered as much in India as the queen in Britain . And the well developed literal /societal and cultural history of indian subcontinent didnt need a european to be civilized . However i still can see some of the benefits of British rule and wont deny that . I hope in the same way the other side including the gentleman above can have some acknowledgement of our point of view too.

Cozumel

21 күн бұрын

​@Bill King I personally understand that those experts arrived to that conclusion, which doesn't deny the state of white drugaddicts. (I think they mentioned it because there is a larger population of drugaddicts and addictions between people of color, than in the "white" population) I come from an ex-colonized country, in Southamerica, where the treatment was different and there was a fusion, we southamericans, maybe with differences of tongue, are christians mostly and we see the value of gold. We are an extremely polarized society but I would say we don't fail as much as society as USA It's a very complex history and hard to sum up(since obviously each indiginous civilization was different so we can't generalize) Studying history (all population), even though I try to be passionless, it's sad to see all the dishumanity so I've come to the conclusion that we all humans(homines sapientes) are capable of horrible things, but also of marvelous. You see that in every person and on every civilization I know what clime of hate you refer to, I tend to judge harshly the english colonization (which incarnated the zeitgeist of its time) I personally think english(iberic too) colonization has his scars still open, it's consequences still burden those populations.[to every reaction there is an effect] I recall a passage of the Last letters of Jacopo Ortis by Foscolo, where he makes manifest his dreams for a patry, for a land and he condems the invaders of his land, remembering the conquered populations(Africa and Southamerica), obviously condeming the violence of humanity and his people, saying that one day the oppressors will be the oppresed and the oppressed will oppresse, since it's the history of humanity.(he doesn't celebrate it) It's a kind of nationalism different to, for example, Kipling in the Mission of the colonizer. I agree that we don't arrive to nothing with hate, I've seen that in my own country, but I think people in the West shouldn't act as its effects don't last in these times, however that doesn't mean they are guilty for it Obviously these doesn't mean people of color are innocent and perfect victims, we are humans, we suck and are wonderful Love❤️

Bill King

Ай бұрын

I'm sure you are on the right track but I think what riles people today is not an intellectual debate about what A, B, C and D did to each other in the 19th century (from which we can surely learn), but using history to create racial animosity and fear, which is a very useful strategy for people trying to make political and acdaemic careers, but enormously divisive for every day-people. Canada has become an utter hot-bed for this kind of thing. Earlier this week I was at a city-council meeting here in Hamilton at which two "experts" told our councillors that the fentanyl epidemic was the result of people traumitized by colonialism and racism. (Nobody seems to have noticed that almost all the drug-addicts living in our parks are white!)

These videos are incredible.

This is a fantastic interview.

Brilliant! Thank you both.

I found this discussion fascinating and thought provoking. Dr. Gilley exploded some myths for me that I had been indoctrinated with in history classes in high school and in my own reading over many years about this topic. One example is: Britain abandoned its colonial empire after WWII because of indigenous resistance movements led by figures like Ghandi and Mandela, plus moral approbation by the anticolonial United States government. It is so obvious to me now that the principal reason was the national impoverishment of Britain as the result of the War, and the domestic political unpopularity of the very expensive cost of maintaining her colonies. I loved Dr. Gilley's analogy of "pushing on an open door"!