Thank you for the thoughtful and factual exploration into General Robert E. Lee. As a direct descendant of his & the Lee family of Virginia it’s been challenging recently. For most of my 51 years in VA, Lee was respected in spite of his very much being on the wrong side of history. I am proud to be related to 2 signers of the Declaration & until 7 yes ago felt proud to be the multiple greats niece of General Lee. Now it’s as if my DNA is diseased because of my lineage. I suppose I don’t have the most objective perspective…… still, it seems short sighted to look back 150 years through the convenience & luxury of a modern lens and so harshly judge what we cannot fully understand. In the first 1/2 + of the 1800’s life was a much harsher experience, scripture was adhered to, family obligation more intense, patriotism to state was extreme for the son of a founding father. Lee loved his kids and wife. He was rather quiet, humble, faithful to God, & respectful of women in a way more foreword thinking than many men in his time & in the South. He was in many ways a great man w/ views very much informed by his era, an era that I can’t feel, smell, touch or see in real time. Loyalty can be admired and a bad bad call. Duty can be righteous and lead one down a terrible path. I can only reach back w/ empathy and gratitude for what I would eventually inherit: a free world full of opportunity and prosperity built on the backs, blood, & treasure of imperfect men & women who built a nation from the ground up. Slavery was and is an atrocity of humankind. It has existed for all of history and continues today across the globe. I wish my many greats uncle had chosen differently but I respect most of what he accomplished in life and who he was & am grateful for the way he chose to surrender & afterwards serve the young men of VA, while also quietly setting a good post war example to unify a ravaged south by submitting to the North’s win & the law of all the land.

@kevindocherty7081

Жыл бұрын

Wow. Great perspective & thanks for sharing about your ancestor 👍

@daviddildy516

Жыл бұрын

Lee was and remains a great man. No need to be ashamed of him, quite the opposite actually.

@seandoc-chesschamp

Жыл бұрын

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

@jimtomo9207

Жыл бұрын

Great story. Don't be ashamed of your history, be sad that people are un willing to admit they would do evils if pushed

@mollystricklen

Жыл бұрын

I have the greatest respect for Robert E Lee. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

An adult conversation of history. Very refreshing.

@shanepaynter5591

5 ай бұрын

Not many adults left in this world

@Conn30Mtenor

4 ай бұрын

adult but flawed.

@Boethius411

3 ай бұрын

@@Conn30Mtenorhow so? Because presently unpopular opinions are discussed?

@jonathondean7317

2 ай бұрын

@@Boethius411 I would guess the comment you responded to is based on the notion that many people today who should be considered "adult" don't appear to be capable of having this level of enlightened conversation. Instead, they respond from emotion and use trigger words and labels. Why would anyone think this today? Oh, I don't know. Maybe it's because we see time after time young adults throwing childish temper tantrums when someone with an opposing viewpoint tries to bring that viewpoint into their protected spaces. Which, ironically, means those unpopular opinions aren't being discussed at all. But that's just a guess. I can't speak for @Conn30Mtenor

@smcandrew224

25 күн бұрын

Amazing to see again ! Gives me hope for the future haha

🔥🔥🔥Sadly Johnathan glossed over the fact that General Lee was one of the very very few cadets to graduate West Point with ZERO demerits. Still quiet the feat today.

@markflacy7099

4 ай бұрын

When I was there, I would have said impossible to replicate. From what I've seen, they will merely strip compliance and groom someone else to simulate doing the same thing.

@Conn30Mtenor

4 ай бұрын

And the men who defeated the Confederates were middling students. At the end of it Lee said that choosing a military career was his greatest mistake and he asked that no monuments be erected to him. Nobody listens to those points; certainly nobody from the South.

@Conn30Mtenor

4 ай бұрын

@@markflacy7099 that doesn't sound like much of an education.

@roberthill799

4 ай бұрын

It is impressive. But he was a traitor.

@jfranklinlewis

3 ай бұрын

@@roberthill799that comment would apply to every veteran of the revolution. Makes no sense to judge others by the standards of today. I can tell who you vote for by your lack of respect for first principles. The worst of what we have today.

I appreciate Jonathan Horn's take on General Lee's choices. He articulated his opinions skillfully and with tact. I must say that I absolutely sympathize with Lee, and the feeling of being unable to fight against my home. Having served in the U.S. Military, If I was told to bear my arms against my home I couldn't do it. Neither could I simply sit idle, even if I didn't hold to every political tenet that prompted the conflict. My family settled the valley in which I was born, and we have owned the land upon which our homestead was built for more than 160 years. The house I grew up in was the same that my Grandfather grew up in, and was built by my Great-Grandparents more than 70 years ago. It is on that homestead that I have every intention of caring for until I breathe my last. Sometimes it is easier to live broken and defeated but with a clean conscience than to have never fought for what you are truly loyal to. How much easier is it then to die for it? As the Author Shelby Foote retold, when a Southern Soldier was asked why he was fighting, he replied "because you're down here" Lee would be the first to point out he was only a man, but his love for his home and his people was great enough, that even with the shame of defeat and the label of a traitor, he did not abandon them. I believe that is worthy of some degree of emulation.

@marchess286

Жыл бұрын

Maybe. But if your friends and neighbors support an evil course of action should one throw in with them? As for Shelby Steele's account, "when a Southern Soldier was asked why he was fighting, he replied "because you're down here"", I would like to have asked Shelby how he thought the Army of Northern Virginia (ANV) soldiers who kidnapped free blacks from Chambersburg, PA, to bring them into slavery in the South, during the Gettysburg campaign, would have answered that question? Furthermore, how would Lee have answered that if someone had brought up Chambersburg? Finally, since you seem to sympathize with Confederate soldiers, if you were in the ANV, how would you have answered it?

@reminder9146

Жыл бұрын

@@marchess286 Shelby Foote not Steele. Shelby Steele is a different author who writes for the Hoover institution. I do not know how Mr. Foote, General Lee or any of the long dead would have replied. Unless they mentioned it, I do not know. I would say you will find episodes of horror, and injustice, on every side during a war; I am not surprised the War between the States was any different. I could juxtapose the actions of General Sherman or General Butler as whataboutism and demand you explain them, but I would rather use them to illustrate my example. I also think of such events in Chambersburg and Fort Pillow and others as occurring because the Northern Army was in the South. The Gettysburg campaign started with both armies in Fredricksburg, Virginia. Lincoln and his administration refused to meet with Jefferson Davis' peace commissioners because the war was preferable to the perception of recognition. What is more evil, slavery or war? Maybe you subscribe to certain provisions of the just war theory. I do, maybe we'd find more agreement on that than you'd think. But to answer your question. If my friends, family, and neighbors affected an exit of the union over a principle issue, namely the right of decision on something I considered evil, let's say abortion as it is a suitably divisive topic with similar moral tones, then yes. I would fight with my neighbors. I earnestly believe in a people's right to self-determination. I tend to the belief that moral crusading produces more harm than good. The fact that that self-determination enslaved millions in 1861 is a moral quandary I hope, if I were alive then, I would have found it difficult to stomach, but how would I have answered. I think the same as that ragged poor soldier did in 1864. Because you're here. The causes of the war however were not as simple as a pure dichotomy. So even though I've excepted your premise for the thought exercise, I don't think it was that simple in the winter of 1860 and Spring of 1861.

@oliveoil7642

Жыл бұрын

The war was just as much about power and control as it was about slavery. Lincoln himself admitted he knew little if anything about blacks!

@seltonk5136

Жыл бұрын

What does your family valley have to do with defending the pond scum southern aristocracy? It would still be there after the war. To anyone anywhere on Earth, the southern defense of rebellion on sentimental grounds is so baffling. It's not baffling to me. You loved slavery. And remain nostaglic for it. Sugar coat it in your buttery drawl. Nobody is fooled.

@marchess286

Жыл бұрын

@@seltonk5136 -- it would be interesting to examine your ethical beliefs, conduct and pretentions and see how much they are considered deplorable in one hundred and fifty years.

Adults discussing history like adults. Very nice.

Horn's thoughts on why we should NOT tear down monuments is one of the most eloquent and concise points I've heard. I usually just scream "What the hell are you morons doing?!!!" Horn appeals to reason and appreciation of the past. Sadly, the maddening crowd won't understand him. Such a shame.

@abigailslade3824

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately they don’t want to understand

@007EnglishAcademy

Жыл бұрын

Madding crowd

@JPW3

10 ай бұрын

@@abigailslade3824 You're right. Neo-Confederates don't want to understand.

Woo hoo!! Just discovered this show. Douglas Murray hosting his own podcast is some of the best news I have heard all week!

@markmakallister4653

Жыл бұрын

I know, right? What a cool concept!

@foxtrotjulietbravo5536

Жыл бұрын

Merry Christmas to us!

@carmenmccauley585

4 ай бұрын

And merry Christmas to me! I just found it now.

Hat's off to Mr. Murray for allowing educated people to expound upon various matters of import to those of us with traditional values. As a southerner born and bred (and one who has spent many years working and living in the NE area of the US), it's never ceased to amaze me how little the average American seems to understand their own history. When I lived in MA, driving around the region, I could still see the ruins of various Victorian-era textile mills (where southern cotton would have been processed into fabric), and the framework of the tension came into focus. In 1861, the highest concentration of wealth on the planet was in MS (due to their production of cotton; 20 years later, it was in MA, due to whaling), while Boston was the locus of banking; one needn't be too imaginative to see how a grand transfer of wealth might have been machinated. The Mexican-American War formed a template which was dutifully replicated with the southern states as a foreign combatant for the Civil War, and the pretext was the abolition of chattel slavery. At one point, slavery had been legal in every US state; one by one, those states which had been unable to make the practice economically profitable renounced the practice and then later came to oppose it in other areas of the country. After the Civil War, the US gov't made no substantive effort to mainstream the newly freed slaves (Recontruction is often viewed as such an effort, but the thrust of this was far more in line with humiliating and punishing the rebels than in affording the benefits of democracy to the former slaves, as is evidenced by the following century of poverty), and as Blacks moved north in search of work, various forms of discrimination expanded to conform (e.g., in the '20s, NJ was the headquarters of the KKK) to this new paradigm. Let me be clear: I wish that the practice of slavery had never been introduced to the New World, but that happened long before I was born. Castigating those long-dead for their failure to adhere to modern ethics is little more than woke, self-servicing sophistry. History is far more complex and satisfying (if one takes the time to regard it appreciatively) than any Maoist dogma could ever be...

@robinlepaige1653

6 ай бұрын

See Thomas DiLorenzo's excellent videos on KZread and his books: LINCOLN UNMASKED and THE REAL LINCOLN. Lincoln didn't want the new states to be free FOR the negro, he wanted the states to be free OF them. His own Secretary of State put it succinctly: "I view the new states as white-only enclaves, devoid of competing cheap black labor." As a legislator, Lincoln signed a bill in his home state of Illinois making it illegal for freed black slaves to settle there.

@user-jk8nx9hf9g

5 ай бұрын

So articulate…

@roninkraut6873

5 ай бұрын

The introduction of slavery to the new world was inevitable. Slavery was just another part of life worldwide. What I wish is this new cancer of progressive Marxism was never allowed to flourish here. It’s been the cause of children learning not history but activism..

@daz4627

4 ай бұрын

The irony with cancelling history is that those who are proposing it fail to realise that their actions will one day ALSO be viewed and examined (and judged) by future generations... it would be incredible to know what those living two or three hundred years from now will think of us.

@busterbiloxi3833

4 ай бұрын

I’m not a Maoist and I disagree with your Lost Cause gibberish. Please be a real American. Denounce the Confederacy and White Supremacy. Denounce Trump the racist.

I did a module on the Civil War at university and wrote my essay on what the war was faught for, I read thousands of Confederate soldier's letters and studied a vast amount of primary sources, they were not fighting to preserve slavery. The generals and officers probably were, but for the ordinary soldier it was freedom and states rights. The Union also definitely wasnt fighting to end slavery, it was much more than that, for example after the Civil War in New Orleans French was banned by the Federal government and English was enforced. It was primarily about maintaining the Union/Empire and transforming ''these United States'' into ''the United States''. By the way, I am not American, I have never lived there so what I see is from afar. Whenever the issue of reparations is brought up, I always think that the 600,000 or so dead Americans is reparation enough. I finished my History and War Studies degree in 2014 and finished my Masters in 2016. I am very lucky as I think I was one of last generation who went to pre-Woke university and enjoyed the traditional experience of free thought and debate, before those two luxuries that were once integral to modern Western civilisation came under attack.

@alexandercampbell0001

Жыл бұрын

There is no possible way that you read thousands Confederate letters and came to the conclusion that the regular soldier was fighting for something as noble as freedom and state's rights. That is not historically accurate and you would never have come to such a conclusion had you read the primary sources you claim to have read. Slavery was not only a concern of the officers but also a concern of the common soldier, period, and they wrote about it in the same primary sources you claim to have read.

@Geep615

4 ай бұрын

When all those boys went marching straight into .60 caliber rifles and grape shot I guarantee you it was for something other than Slavery. Slavery was horrible and we shouldn’t have done it. But the blacks flatter themselves when they attempt to boil the Civil War down to their plight alone.

@patrickmiano7901

3 ай бұрын

What freedom? They were ruled by an aristocracy that resembled European nobility. A few hundred families owned and ran everything. What rights of states, besides the right to own slaves? Whether they knew it or not, one way or another, the common Confederate soldier was fighting to keep other human beings in bondage. After the war, they lived pretty much the same way they did before the war. The Southern States fought freedom and equality for black people tooth and nail with discriminatory laws.

@cmcapps1963

2 ай бұрын

​@@alexandercampbell0001As someone with a pre-woke degree in history I can tell you have not read these primary sources yourself. "For Cause and Comrades" does NOT count

@dansal3799

2 ай бұрын

in order to understand what a war is about, you should read the declarations of war issued by the warring parties. Read every Casus belli issued by the southern states. They all mentioned three things, the Republican party, the Republican president, Abraham Lincoln, and the threat they both pose to the institution of slavery. Each declaration of war is a good history lesson as well, as the authors go into some explanation as to why slavery as an institution is so integral to the south. You’re right, the average fighting soldier, who did not own slaves, probably did not think that he was on the battlefield to keep the black man down. He probably thought he was fighting for his family, and his society. But his society was founded on the institution of slavery. That’s why the phrase “a civilization gone with the wind“ describes the south after the institution of slavery was Outlawed, because it was a civilization founded on slavery, and once slavery disappeared, that southern civilization also had to disappear. As conservatives, we don’t need to be reactionaries. We don’t need to take the opposite stance to everything the left says. Tearing down statues is not a good practice, but Robert E Lee lead in army, whose overall purpose was to preserve a civilization founded on the institution of slavery. The southerners understood that their society was integrally bound up with the institution of slavery, and they wanted to defend slavery to the last man. Again, in order to understand what a war is about, you should read the declarations of war issued by the warring parties. The southern declarations of war are very clear about the ultimate reason: slavery slavery slavery

Why does it take a man who wasn't born in America to focus on our history. Glad Douglas is doing it

I can't tell you how stoaked I am for a Douglas Murray channel.

To discover a series like this to which I can binge listen is a priceless joy 😊

As his 4 great nephew it saddens me that people do not know the whole story.

@kingscairn

4 ай бұрын

Winners write the History - the Southerners were Constitutional Patriots

Awesome Douglas keep going bro. The importance of learning from our past can't be understated.

@john_thedabtist3069

22 күн бұрын

1000%

@chrisfleischman3371

19 күн бұрын

I think you must mean ‘overstated’ , but point taken….

I graduated from Washington and Lee in 2011--so when Robert E Lee was still very much a hero to all us students and Southern culture was an essential part of the school, but the woke clouds were just beyond the horizon. The smart phone was still in its infancy, so we still talked to each other. Robert E Lee is still one of my heroes, but I am so glad I got out when I did! I can't stand what's happening to it now.

@gengrant5291

Жыл бұрын

Southern culture is the reason we had a civil war. Lee was a rebel against the US and lost.

@joshuataylor3550

Жыл бұрын

Americans are strange

Oh my goodness! History with Douglas Murray, can’t wait for more of this! I’ve studied history my whole life and have a bachelor’s in history. But am always wanting to know more and these days there are few sources I trust. Douglas will definitely be one of them, I have no doubt. Just finished watching. What an excellent conversation. As to statues - I don't care if we have statues or not. My objection is that I don't trust the people demanding their removal. What will they demand next? Who gets to decide what monuments we have, and why? We could be focusing on curing cancer by now if we weren't belittling our own potential by this social navel gazing.

@captainadams8565

Жыл бұрын

In a hundred years time when the world has turned vegan. There will be discussions about taking down statues of Bernard Matthews (British Turkey farmer). I don't know if there are any statues of Bernard Matthews but you catch my meaning. It would more likely be statues of Isambard Kingdom Brunel (English civil engineer in the nineteenth century). One of his most famous feats was the Great Western Railway from London to Bristol. The project was funded by merchants. Their produce being sugar, cotton and tobacco cultivated on slave plantations in the Americas.

@branden0231

Жыл бұрын

Excellent!

@douglasmurray

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching! Stay tuned for more!

@kraken138

Жыл бұрын

I agree with everything, except I do want statues and care very much that we have them. Statues and historic figures are a mark of civilization and culture. That is why they are attacked and why they are essential to protect.

@hughmac13

Жыл бұрын

@@kraken138 That's exactly why, until all this recent madness, we took extreme pains to retain and protect statues of figures as diverse as Hitler, Stalin, and Saddam Hussein. Amirite?

My family's is from Illinois the land of Lincoln. So I am a yankee. But I have always loved Robert E Lee respected him for his military abilities and his patience and kindness to his troops.

This series of Q and A's are a treasure. Thanks.

@douglasmurray

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Thank you! I knew very little about these important historical moments.

@douglasmurray

Жыл бұрын

We are so glad you enjoyed this episode! Stayed tuned for episode 02!

This is a fascinating conversation. Douglas Murray (lit almost angelically) asks great questions and Jonathan Horn is extremely well-informed. This is going to be a great series, and I can only hope it continues.

@junkscience6397

Жыл бұрын

It must be his "angelic" blond hair dye (cf see previous interviews on KZread). lol. I kid!

@raysmith5782

11 ай бұрын

O

@raysmith5782

11 ай бұрын

Oll

Thank you so much for this! This man has such a passion for history! What a joy to watch! God Bless Robert E Lee!

That was so good! It's such a treat to get to listen to intelligent interesting people for me. There's so much to know about, not enough time! 😂

@mattcorcoran7082

Жыл бұрын

10000%

This is an amazing conversation. As a born and raised southern gentleman I appreciate this on so many levels. Great perspectives here.

You are correct Douglas. The lesson is "The only true balm of war is magnanimy" - MM

Mr. Murray Congratulations Sir, I was looking for your own podcast and finally found it. The ambience and civilized conversation makes of this a beautiful experience. The very best for you all and greetings from Mexico. Thank you kindly.

Such a good conversation & incredible potential for a history/culturally focused interview show w/ Murray. Overjoyed to see this project take off.

Wow. That was an extraordinary discussion. As an older Virginian I was specifically taught to honor and respect Lee (and his famous horse Traveller) in elementary school. As a product of the 60s I also understand how the halo slipped and why. But the truth is even more important as history moves forward. I will miss the statuary, and I wish that they had never been placed rather than to tear them down. But it is the time we are living in. A myth of a clear boundary between what is right and what is wrong. Nobody epitomizes that better than Robert E Lee. Thanks for a wonderful discussion. I can’t wait for the next episode.

@Conn30Mtenor

4 ай бұрын

For someone who said he couldn't raise a sword against his home state and yet invaded the north TWICE (and his troops seized free blacks and sent them south into slavery on both occasions) I wonder about your "clear boundary between what is right and what is wrong" sits.

This was a very good conversation. In my estimation, Lee stands among the greatest Americans. It's a tragedy that so many of our schoolchildren are taught to ignore the lessons about forgiveness that the aftermath of that war should have taught us.

@junkscience6397

Жыл бұрын

lol Reconstruction was NOT about "forgiveness". Or were YOU taught to ignore THIS part of the aftermath of the war?? Had Lincoln continued into his second term? It might've been "forgiveness", but in fact, it turned out to be anything but. Please, look it up. American RECONSTRUCTION, and its increasingly radical, and punitive, nature as time went on...also look up the abusive original meanings of the post-bellum terms "scalawag" and "carpetbagger" for yet more examples of American "forgiveness" in action! And then there's Old Jim Crow...a meeting of the minds from both sides, so to speak...

@whosweptmymines3956

Жыл бұрын

@@junkscience6397 I was referring to the amnesties and pardons after the war. They contributed greatly to the healing of our nation.

@lovablesnowman

11 ай бұрын

The greatest Americans don't lead separatist rebellions to preserve slavery

@JPW3

9 ай бұрын

@@junkscience6397 Your vision of Reconstruction is a wonderful example of the Dunning School. That isn't a compliment.

Thank you for an interesting interview. It is sad that we try to define history through contemporary understanding. We omit the context of the time, knowledge and experience of those involved at that time.

@kingscairn

4 ай бұрын

Thank you

I fell that it would help the entire country to understand just how complex the events were in 1860-61 leading up to the war. A good start is Henry Louis Gate’s “Looking for Lincoln” and Northern Tax Historian Charles Adams book “When in the course of Human Events”

@jds614

Жыл бұрын

It's not that complex actual The civilized people were moving on to an extent...the south wanted to continue to own people They couldn't win via the ballots..so they became traitors and tried to so via bullet...they killed their countrymen for an objectively evil cause The Confederates were enemy scum like any other enemy combatant We don't glorify the German soldiers in either world war...why is this different Because they used to be American...didn't they punt that when they broke off when they didn't get their way Btw they turned a then unpopular president into a legend and debatably the best ever(I'd rank him ahead of Washington because you know he didn't participate in evil himself so not a bad tie break) Anything else is breaking down the issue beyond its core principles...."states rights" was one state right...the right to own slaves....they didn't like others states rights to be safe haven for escapees and fought against that. Anything of "government over reach" was boiled down to this or an off shoot Alexander Stephens left no doubt into the cause of the Confederates Anything else is nonsense from lost cause idiots

Thanks for an excellent podcast Mr. Murray. Great job Mr. Horn. I was at Lee Chapel last week. Many of us have families that are from both the north and south. Blocking visible history does not deter the greatest fears of the woke.

I grew up in Houston where there were many Confederacy monuments as well as schools named after those who fought for Texas independence and for the Confederacy, eg Robert E Lee High School, which has since been renamed. I have letters passed down through my family which describe the horrors and devastation of the Civil War and its aftermath. In researching my maternal ancestors, who lived in Louisiana and Mississippi, I learned they owned slaves, and I learned of the enormous price they paid for the "particular institution." Every branch of my mother's family lost at least one son, husband or father. One of my 2nd great uncles was mortally wounded at Shiloh. One of his brothers was a POW at a Northern POW camp. Another 2nd great uncle died of measles at boot camp. Two-thirds of the 700,000 deaths, North and South, were from disease. I have many shared DNA matches with black descendents of slaves owned by family and several have messaged me to help them in their genealogy research. Unfortunately, other than knowing which branch they probably descended from, I cannot help them as little or no paper trail exists on slaves. For ex, the 1850 slave census lists the owner's name, but individual slaves are only listed as male or female along with their age.

@adrianjohnson7920

Жыл бұрын

I also grew up post WW II Houston, am a 6th generation Texan. General Sam Houston and his wife owned slaves, often "rescued" from cruel owners. He had been President of the Republic of Texas, laboured to get Texas into the USA. He had been one of the first 2 American Senators. Houston was Governor of Texas when the Civil war broke out, and refused to take the oath of loyalty to the Confederacy. Lincoln sent Houston a secret message saying, "If I sent you 10K troops, could you keep Texas in the Union?" Houston, in bad health, replied, "If I were 10 years younger, I would do it. But I am too old now." he retired to his Huntsville plantation, and when the Emancipation Proclamation was announced in Texas, the Houston's slaves, many old and disabled, were distressed and asked "if thye MUST be free?" -- Houston visited the Huntsville Prison to visit Union prisoners of war; one of his sons was a POW in the North. Houston died age 70 before the civil war was over. Houston's craftsman blacksmith had earned $300 in gold, and offered this to the widowed Mrs Houston as the family had never been rich, and now was poor in the Reconstuction. She graciously refused his kind offer, saying he should take the money and found a good school to educate the freed blacks; and so he did.

@alswann2702

7 ай бұрын

Sam Houston was run outta Texas for being a scaliwag (a traitor who didn't support the Confederacy).

@mattjbg7025

7 ай бұрын

I too grew up in Houston. I am sorry that your family paid such a dear price back in the day fighting for slavery. Thoughts and prayers.

@jackhays1194

6 ай бұрын

Simplistically ignorant

@coreythadrumma20

5 ай бұрын

@@mattjbg7025 go kiss black feet elsewhere

Douglas Murray content is like food for the mind!

What a brilliant conversation

The generation who fought and sacrificed in that miserable horrible dastardly war reconciled. It’s hubris mixed with narcissism and ignorance for today’s generation to declare that generation irreconcilable.

@oliveoil7642

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely, well said!

@JPW3

10 ай бұрын

LOL! "The generation who fought and sacrificed in that miserable horrible dastardly war reconciled." LOL! Really? So former Confederates "reconciled" with USCT?

@john_thedabtist3069

22 күн бұрын

this is marcus aurelius level wisdom right here. write that shit down somewhere

@pilroberts6185

22 күн бұрын

​@@john_thedabtist3069 I'm not sure if you mock or complement me 🤔😃

It’s a nice change to see you asking the questions and conducting the interview. Enjoyed this episode. Looking forward to the rest.

Thank you so very much, Mr. Murray! What a fantastic concept and how wonderful this interview was. How much history is taught in this one interview! Wow. I had no idea about 90% of it. And of course, that's the point. Thank you for bringing history to people in this eloquent and very needed method! My husband and I can't wait to see the next episodes. BRAVO!

To answer the question, when was the last monument erected in honor of General Robert E. Lee? I would guess the image of REL alongside Jefferson Davis and Stonewall Jackson. Perhaps the largest sculpture was carved in the granite face of Stone Mountain, Georgia. Starting in 1928 with a history of delays and personality clashes, the giant sculpture 305 feet wide and 190 feet high was finally completed in 1970. When I moved to Georgia in the eighties, the evening would end with the soundtrack of Dixie and the Lazar show making it appear the three horsemen riding off to history. Of course, back then, neither the black families nor 'Yankee" tourists seemed concerned with the show at all enjoying the summer night in the park. Today there are occasional whispers of removing or covering up the monuments by the same modern-day book burners.

@pauloneil8531

Жыл бұрын

Two equestrian statues, one of Lee and the other of Jackson were dedicated in Baltimore, Md in 1948. They were removed, and rightly so, in 2017.

@gern7535

Жыл бұрын

@@pauloneil8531 Spoken like a true coward and hypocrite. If there were a civil war today, you'd run to Canada so fast it would break the sound barrier.

@pauloneil8531

Жыл бұрын

@@gern7535 Seeing as I am 69, I would not have to run. As for calling me a coward, well, it takes one to know one. I am rubber and you are glue, whatever you call me bounces off to me and sticks to you. I know I am but what are you? Go away kid, I think I hear your mother calling you.

Such a refreshing , educational conversation. Douglas , your lead throughout was exceptional. I must add that your own personal knowledge of the US Civil War and in particular Robert E. Lee was made clear by your questions and commentary . I look forward to this site growing . Thank you for this wonderful offering.

Interesting discussion of a great man and great soldier who deserves to be honored.

@gengrant5291

Жыл бұрын

He was rebel who fought against the US. What honor?

@whitneymilam3141

6 ай бұрын

It would have been so great if the USA was ripped apart and 4 million Americans remained in chains. Do I have that right?

Brilliant. Thank you, Douglas.

I enjoyed this interview very much. Thank you for taking the time to record this, and now share it. I see men like Robert E. Lee as a man that we can learn from. There are no perfect men, or women. Only those who can learn from. I know this is off topic for this video, but i would be very interested to see a video of similar caliber for Thomas Jackson.

Absolutely wonderful. So excited you set off on this series Mr. Murray. Perfect man for a job past due

Kudos to you gentlemen. Douglas asks the question I would like to ask, in the way I would like to ask them, and in response, the questions are answered calmly and thoroughly, illuminating the complexity of that period and the people of that time.

This is very well done. Love this series concept.

@douglasmurray

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Tom!

Just discovered this podcast. Great questions that help to understand the intricacies of people and the times in which they lived. Never knew any details about the civil war or Robert E. Lee prior to this.

Simply outstanding Gentlemen 🙏🙏

How was his decision "horrible" ? He was an honorable man who thought he was doing his duty. You don't see that today much.

As soon as I saw this I knew it was a fantastic idea for a series. Excellent work, love the video.

How did I not know Lee had such strong family ties to George Washington?!? This was awesome.

So grateful for their time and the fact this is free to watch.

How did I not know about this channel?? So much Douglas Murray to catch up on

A very welcome analysis of history and large figures. Truth and honest debate 👍

I just found the series. Thank you. Go on!

Hi from the uk. Very pleased to listen to this discussion. Learned a lot.

I appreciate the complexity of the issues and the depth of reasoning that went in to both political and military decisions during the civil war. This exchange is an intriguing one, and I appreciate it.

As a Virginian it is hard to explain to folks what it meant for Lee to fight for his state over the union. Not something you will understand if you are just reading the history, I remember growing up near Arlington, and there is a closeness there to everything that became this great nation.

@gandydancer9710

Жыл бұрын

Virginia was a sovereign nation which had withdrawn from the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union when it decided that THAT union was not in accord with its goals when it entered into it, so how was the 1789 Union different (other than that it had lasted somewhat longer)? See, it's not hard to explain at all.

@oliveoil7642

Жыл бұрын

@@gandydancer9710 And in our time we will likely witness the “Bulkanization “ of the U.S. because the Civil War really never was “settled”.

@SandfordSmythe

7 ай бұрын

Let's not get too sentimental here . His wealth, his relatives, his friends were there.

@user-jk8nx9hf9g

5 ай бұрын

It’s called the Tenth Amendment - sovereign states - which Abraham Lincoln destroyed.

@hattorihanzo2275

4 ай бұрын

It's not difficult to explain. People are deliberately obtuse and let their emotion reign over context.

This was so interesting and so informative. Thank you both very much.

A good way to spend an hour, thank you to Douglas and the author.

Thank you Mr. Murray. I'm sharing everywhere!!!

Great interview! Thank you for that very nourishing and well thought and balanced discussion of American history.

It is a shame people easily demonize those of the past when we have so much information at our finger tips.

@ke11yke11z

Жыл бұрын

People wear their ignorance on their sleeve like a symbol of pride.

@Zsswimmer1

Жыл бұрын

Counterpoint to yours (which I di agree with) with an almost limitless amount of information at your fingertips, being able to discern what's true and whats false becomes exponentially harder. In fact it behooves the powers that be to flood information into the collective pool of information, and it becomes so large that essentially the truth can hide out of view in plain sight. Also, if kids are raised by a certain curriculum and don't have the parents who are smart enough or care enough to really dig into American history grow up their entire lives with zero knowledge of these things, half truths, or straight up fabrications. It's easy to dunk on younger people and generations for whatever reason but we shouldn't demonize them either. It's the demonization itself that causes more and more divide. Postmodern philosophy is also a really toxic mindset that can develop in the current state of modernity that we live in, where back in the daybyou didn't have access to say videos of blatant corruption, or horrible violence or knowledge of things that shouldn't be held in the mind of people growing up, but anyone born in 00 and beyond really had no choice to grow up in any other world. Just a different perspective to add to yours

Excellent. Looking forward to watching the entire series.

Love this series. More please!!

This was so good, really enjoyed it!

This is a great forum,it shows how history , like the life which creates it, is full of contradictions.Great Job!

What a wonderfully informative and engaging conversation. Thanks, all!

Awesome! We seriously need more of this. When does Ep.2 air?

@douglasmurray

Жыл бұрын

Episode 2 will be released Monday, November 28!

@just_me6392

Жыл бұрын

@@douglasmurray Thank you!

Thanks for this adult conversation, as ever your work is vital for the rebuilding after this madness. The tanks the US built to send to stop Rommel (who himself is a simpler Lee perhaps) were the M3 Grant and the M3 Lee. Cancelling history (which you can’t ever do) might be the key signature of totalitarians.

@marchess286

Жыл бұрын

The M3 Lee was the version used by the US Army. A modified version the M3 Grant was supplied to the British Army.

@thomaswayneward

Жыл бұрын

Would you compare what Putin is doing to Ukraine, to what Lincoln did to the South?

@marchess286

Жыл бұрын

@@thomaswayneward - In what respect and why is that question relevant to this video?

@thomaswayneward

Жыл бұрын

@@marchess286 I have noticed that people that will not answer simple questions usually don't have good answers to the question.

@marchess286

Жыл бұрын

@@thomaswayneward - I think it is odd that you see ulterior motives when someone asks you to clarify a vague question. Any great military-political campaign has numerous sides to it that can be analyzed. I will take a shot at one aspect of your question. From a military operations POV, Russia's efforts superficially resemble the Union offensives in the East throughout the ACW. Both Russia and the Union initially attempted quick strikes to occupy the enemy capitol that were defeated. The Union finally arrived at a strategy of slowly advancing with attrition, which it could afford due to greater population. Russia could be said to have shifted to the same strategy. Various outside sources, such as GEN Milley have said that both Russia and Ukraine each have taken about 100K military casualties. Russia may be hoping that Ukraine will hit the bottom of their manpower pool first, since Russia has a larger population.

Excellent video and discussion!

Appreciate this balanced look at Lee and his legacy.

Outstanding interview

This is a treasure. Very interesting. I wish that more American will listen to this.

10 Episodes is definitely not enough for this series. Such interesting and incredibly important insights.

This was a wonderful discussion, and one which we certainly need more of today more than ever. As an amateur historian, my opinion of Lee has always been mixed. Despite the more recent research on his generalship, I always believed that he was a masterful battlefield tactician. That said, I will ultimately leave that to the military historians to decide. The final verdict will no doubt change and change again with each successive generation. More interesting to me are his positions on slavery and ultimately secession. Mr. Horn notes that Lee was against slavery and saw it as a “necessary evil”. But then goes on to note that he felt it was evil because of the ramifications that it had on White southerners. What is troubling for the modern listener is that Mr. Horn does not state that Lee felt it was a moral wrong. I think that this is a subtle, but important distinction. Additionally, Mr. Horn mentions that at the outset of the Civil War, Lee had been reading a biography of Washington and concluded that Washington would not have supported secession and that his loyalties would have remained with the Union. I would tend to agree. And yet, Lee chooses to fight for his “country” (i.e. Virginia). As they touch upon in this discussion, this notion that one’s ultimate loyalty was to one’s home state as opposed to the Union was not uncommon, but seems to me to be more virulent in the Southern states than it ever was in Northern states. See, for instance, Thomas Jefferson’s constant references to Virginia as his country both before and after the Revolutionary War. I had a great high school history teacher who always said, “We can’t view history through 20th century rose colored glasses.” Mind you I’m not so sure he would have been comfortable sharing that opinion today, but the sentiment has always stayed with me and it is one that I generally agree with. So, if one were to argue that we can’t apply our modern sentiments re: slavery and secession to Lee’s 19th century views I wouldn’t necessary disagree, but here’s the rub. There were many contemporaries (and forebears) of Lee who’s views would more closely mirror those that many of us share today. John Adams for one condemned slavery on both moral and practical grounds. As mentioned in this discussion, Washington’s farewell address was a masterpiece (one that successive generations, our’s included, have seemingly ignored) on the dangers of factions and devotion to the Union. Closer to home for Lee, there were scores of Southern born men who remained loyal to the Union. Hell, as we know, there were many Union men whose position on slavery and racial equality (i.e., Sherman) would make the modern reader blush, and yet their loyalty never wavered. All of this is to say that while Lee may have been a decent man according to the dictates of his times, his loyalty was misguided and ultimately he was a traitor to his country. This is what makes me ambivalent about the removal of his statues as opposed to some of the more ridiculous suggestions of removing statues of Grant (!), Washington (!!), and Lincoln (!!!). As mentioned in the discussion, the argument of statues as history is, I think, a decent one, but let’s be honest I don’t think that was the original intent. As such, I will continue to be torn on that issue, or ambivalent at best when it comes to the likes of Lee and his Confederate contemporaries. In any event, this was a great discussion and look forward to more.

Well done and long overdue! 👏🏻

Fantastic video. Excited for episode 2

@douglasmurray

Жыл бұрын

Happy to hear it Adrian! Episode 2 will be premiering tomorrow!

Thank for providing a new outlet that gives Americans a place to not forget their history. 🙏

Great presentation. Thank you.

What a fantastic and enlightening opening video, I’ve learned so much - thank you Douglas ❤

Such a great video! This is real history.

This is terrific. V good, thanks v much

This was a wonderful and illuminating look into a grand and historic figure. I look forward to more of this. Good show.

Thank you for your podcast. I thoroughly enjoyed that interview, especially hearing Jonathan Horn's beautiful voice and his passion for his subject.

I think Lee is the most monumental character in American History. The Civil War would have been over quickly if he was Union, no Maclellan was he. The events that produced the Emancipation Proclamation and Emancipation itself may never have taken place, the economic growth produced by an extended war served America and the world well in the WW1 and WW2, and halting gOdless totalitarianism - No other nation could. What a fateful decision he made - a sacrifice of sorts.

@jackhays1194

6 ай бұрын

After Washington, among the greatest of men

Great to see. A good history class

@douglasmurray

Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for watching! We hope you enjoy the rest of the series

We should all treat each other with dignity and respect

Journalism, asks to question. And Douglas does it justice. As does Jonathan bring perspective. 10/10

How is this not 3 hours? So good. Thank you to all involved

What actually happened is so much more complex, human and interesting than the simplified good vs evil narrative of the civil war.

@davidr2802

Жыл бұрын

Lee was a US army official who sided with the insurrectionists to defend the institution of slavery. Not that nuanced or complex. Rather, simply dishonorable.

@mojojasper73

Жыл бұрын

@@davidr2802 Sure that is true at a macro level. If one of our goals in learning about history is to not repeat the mistakes of the past, it's important to accurately report on the lives of the "bad" guys, even if it humanizes them. All humans have the capacity for evil, not just the stereotypical "bad guys". The bad guys rarely think they are the bad guys.

@jackhays1194

6 ай бұрын

Superficially ignorant

Thank you Mr M….excellent series

Thank you. A privilege to listen to you both

Thank you for talking about the past, as it was.

I'm really enjoying this series with Douglas Murray. Is a Nigel Biggar video about Cecil Rhodes on the cards? I would love to see that

Thanks DM for creating these programmes

Wow! I'm thrilled to listen to this!! Only 10 seconds in, the title and comments have me hooked! And seeing a title under this that looks good too, thank you!!

The founding fathers knew slavery would have to be dealt with but since they just formed a new experiment known as a Republic and wanted to keep that new country together

The 1890s and the early 20th century was a time of building monuments, yes; of all sorts. To be sure, monuments to heroes of the Confederacy, but also the Lincoln Memorial.

im a student of the civil war. thank you for airing this, very interesting

Excellent history lesson. Great conversation.