Some people see a cool keyboard replacement, I along with probably the majority of people see a massive learning curve what we just can't be bothered with.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Maybe check out CharaChorder Lite or CharaChorder X 😁

@batlin

Ай бұрын

Lots of people would say the same about learning a musical instrument. That's ok. Personally I often find those massive learning curves kind of fun.

@schrodingerscat1863

Ай бұрын

@@batlin Kind of a false equivalence but I understand your point. As I said in the OP some will find it cool and spend the time but most see a keyboard as a tool and need it to be useful out of the box rather than needing weeks and months to figure out how it works and for it to become useable at all.

@batlin

Ай бұрын

​@@schrodingerscat1863 when you first start using computers, it takes a long time to become proficient with the standard qwerty keyboard. I once worked with another computer programmer who, even after years in the business, mostly used two fingers to type and looked down at the keyboard the whole time! You're probably right that most people would look at this and go "why would I even need this?", and that's fair. But you don't *have* to fully switch to it all the time. In a similar vein, a year or so ago I started learning Orthic shorthand and found the learning curve quite steep. I use it for very brief notes, but haven't committed to using it all the time even though that might help me improve faster.

@patergauting7374

Ай бұрын

​@@schrodingerscat1863 i think most people do see this as a big learning investment but I also do think that people are able to learn a new keyboard layout while still using the old one ;)

Glad to see more realistic expectations and a thorough overview of the tech addressing the click-baity "banned from competitions!!1!" kind of stuff. I'm greatly anticipating getting my hands on one of these =)

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Thanks so much for your support! ❤

I'm happy to see a starting guide - this is SO MUCH MORE INFORMATIVE than the "I put my hands on the device and words come out at mad speed" videos which really tells us nothing at all. Also, the fact it takes weeks to get any speed with this is a real drag. This is why I never learned dvorak or maltron layouts - learning layouts requires time and practice.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Thanks for the feedback! Most are able to pass average qwerty speed within about a month of practice. If you don't want to relearn how to type, maybe check out CharaChorder Lite or CharaChorder X 😊

@garyantonyo

Ай бұрын

Yeah, this is why I don't really switch to Dvorak or anything else. That being said I don't think that this unavoidable for any method, even if you just slightly optimize qwerty by swapping just a few letters its going to be a massive effort to relearn, maybe even worse since you need to unlearn your existing qwerty muscle memory. This would be useful if we could convince newer generations to learn it, those that haven't already learned to type. It also might be worth the effort if you need to be able to type that fast, but I think most professions either already have specialized tools or just don't need to actually type faster than what qwerty currently allows. I do a lot of typing myself, but most of my time is spent thinking what to write next, and even when I didn't know qwerty as well I still didn't spend a ton of time actually typing. I still think research into better typing methods is useful, but I think its going to take a big change for it to catch on.

@MrScottyTay

Ай бұрын

learning "normal" keyboard layouts is not actually that bad. I learned Workman to be usable for work in a day or two, slow, but I could work. It was even an ergo keyboard with layers. I am not a person with good memory either. I have ADHD and a short term memory that's half of that of an average person. The biggest factor for me was programming my keyboard and knowing where everything is because I put it there myself. I got up to my usual speed in probably a month. And now I'm in a position where I can easily use both Workman-DH and QWERTY without any issue. I use Workman-DH primarily for work cause it helps alleviate RSI, but I still use QWERTY when on a PC I'm likely to be gaming on it rather than working.

@paper2222

28 күн бұрын

@@MrScottyTayi've been in the layout making community for 3 or so years now and i've never heard of workman dh ever before

@MrScottyTay

28 күн бұрын

@@paper2222 it's a variant of workman that puts d and h to below the index rather than to the side of. It proves very useful for me as a software dev with ulnar nerve issues.

Looks similar to how Japanese is typed on mobile. With 46 kana, it would be really inconvenient to put every character on one layout, so there are only 10 keys for kana, grouped by consonant groups, with 5 possible inputs on each key. There are 5 vowels that can follow a consonant to make a Japanese sound, so pressing the key normally gives one character and swiping in each of the 4 directions gives 4 more characters.

@perero

19 күн бұрын

Exactly what came into my mind lol Since I'm already comfortable with kana inputs I can guess the keyboard in the video could also eventually be mastered But I don't see why such typing mechanism should precede one another, I believe there would be much effective keyboard forms if such is allowed

@vlydenknox

10 күн бұрын

I was just about to type this too.

@quatreraberbawinner2628

8 күн бұрын

あなたが正しいですよ！

@jerryb216

7 күн бұрын

So it's just advanced t9 texting! That is actually pretty cool.

@jangdi.

5 күн бұрын

So are the Chinese

You are one of the best presenters and explainers I have ever had the pleasure to encounter. Your dedication and passion have fostered a tightly knit community that is truly invaluable. Thank You for sharing your wisdom and being a beacon of knowledge for all of us. Your future is bright with the impact you are making, and we are grateful to be a part of this journey with you. I hope that your creations are adopted by more people and can become a standard for all of us.

@CharaChorder

28 күн бұрын

A close knitted community is far greater than any diamonds or gold. Thank you for being a part of it! 😄

The take your time and focus on fluid trigrams is amazing advice

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Fluidity is key!

I was all into custom keyboard making since the 90's. Started off by reusing guts of existing keyboards, and progressed to using Atmel microcontrollers as HID bridges. Even though I did not make this exact type of a keyboard, I was always trying to replicate the stenographer typewriters. To get away with fewer keys, but preferably, utilize skills acquired from regular typing. And I had a similar looking setup, only with a single row of keys that would represent the middle row, and if you tilted individual keys, it would emulate the finger going up or down a row to press an adjacent key, while physically resting on the same original button. Typing would be exactly the same as on a regular keyboard, with no retraining required, but only the 3 text rows would be available. I had ideas for keys attached to fingers with fish line. I had a thought about using a plastic surface and an infrared camera underneath, to see which fingers made contact. All low tech methods due to not having a 3D printer and being focused on the ease of fabrication. And too bad, most of my interesting tests took place before there was youtube, so it's all undocumented. But this keyboard is the closest thing I see to my "single row" build.

So cool to see it in action! I'm excited to use that site when my Master's Forge arrives!

How well does this handle special characters? I'm a programmer and I can't use it unless it has good support for all the special squiggles on the keyboard normal people don't use

@CP200S

25 күн бұрын

As if keyboards were the bottleneck for code writing speed 😅.

@actionmarco8556

24 күн бұрын

You can customize the character mapping to your needs. So yes, it can do it all

@claytoncallaway6412

24 күн бұрын

There are about 3 vigintillion possible button combinations so I don’t think you’ll be limited by the characters the keyboard can type

@mat_name_whatever

23 күн бұрын

@@CP200S it's only the limit for the boring parts, which is like 80% in some projects 😄 So fast typing makes the boring parts faster to complete :)

@boinqity4621

23 күн бұрын

@@CP200Stheres a difference between something slowing you down vs making whatever you're doing outright impossible

Ordered in one a couple days back, can't wait to get my hands on it. You're quite right, that it's daft we still interface with modern technology using a 19th century typewriter. Revolutionizing this technology was a long time coming, and if this becomes a new standard at some point - I'll be happy to have come in nearer the ground floor. Really wish you luck with this dude, I'm hype for disruptive technology and sense you've passion to get this right.

I kept looking over my right shoulder expecting someone to be there.😊

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

😂

Just imagine someone playing Starcraft with this thing...

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

I made a video on it at some point. There's something truly awesome about controlling a spaceship armada, literally without lifting a finger 😂

I could see this as a capcitive touch mat that uses this typing scheme. It could be used as a game controller with the help of jesters or a drawing tablet. You would no longer need a tactile anything just a capacitive surface. Please continue development because I have been looking for a system like this for years.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Yes, it will certainly be possible to develop a flat version

How do you use F-keys, , ~ tilde, square brackets, numbers etc. Also, what is a Chord in this context?

Very cool! The design choices made on the Master Forge are very sleek. Very much in line with my current tastes for PC peripherals. I want one! Appreciate the weekly updates and thorough explanations as well. Great work!

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Thanks so much for your support & kind words! 🤠

I originally got into alternative inputs with the Azeron Classic and had a blast playing Destiny 2 with it. It saved me the hassle of taking multiple steps to CLOSE the game by letting me macro the sequence to get to "do you really want to exit" and hit enter in a dash. While both the Master Forge and CharaCorder are currently out of my reach financially, I hope to experience one of them as I make an effort on my channel.

Heh, pre-ordered the master forge kit when it was first announced, I'm still eagerly awaiting it. I would love to see how the mapping translates to gaming (especially the classic WASD, Number keys, and F keys). Still sad more people didn't invest early in this, it feels like a great concept, I hope the kickstarter takes off for you. Thanks for this video, definitely felt more approachable to me than a lot of the other videos I've seen on it. I still need to put in the time with my Charachorder lite (Because sometimes other people need to use a computer), and I'm excited to get used to the masterforge and maybe figure out how to integrate it with wearable computing (or just my phone :P).

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Thank you so much for your support! And absolutely yes, gaming demos are coming soon :)

But, i can already type at the speed of my thoughts... 37 words per minute. This took me two minutes to write. See?

Talking about digital switches: "when the typewriter was invented" it might surprise you that typewriters didn't use electronic switches until the 1970s, around the same time keyboards started getting more popular

@spark9189

25 күн бұрын

he was saying that they only went up and down, not that they were electronic

@rogeriopenna9014

25 күн бұрын

@@spark9189 well, they were analogic, unlike digital switched. Meaning you could relate the strength of the keystroke...a little

This looks reallyl nice and interesting! Hopefully it would/will help with my RSI if I can get hold of one. A question though: How is it with international layouts? I have a need for (at least) three extra vowels compared to English, and would like to also have all the "programmer keys" easily accessible. How is chording done? Can I have different chords for different situations?

Woah, that intro was really cool. Awesome project!

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Thank you, cheers!

I hoped to see more of a feature demonstration than a starting guide When looking at the finished device I am a bit worried that on the upper thumb stick it is a bit close to the case so depending on the finger position or length of the thumb it may collide/touch the case. i have had that issue with the cc1 cable. thats why i bought a 90° angled ttrs cable and cut away a bit of excess polymere

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

More feature demos coming soon ;) Thank you for the feedback. That distance is larger on M4G than CC1 so hopefully it will work well for you!

I've tried custom 1D keyboards in the past, eg. non-qwerty key positions, or unconventional shapes/layouts. A major problem I had is that it ruined my ability to type on a common qwerty keyboard. This 3D keyboard seems like it might not cause that problem. I'm sure you still use a common qwerty keyboard sometimes - what is it like going back to qwerty after learning to type in 3D? Thank you for this great video!

This definitely seems like it's easier on the fingers to type on than the DataHand keyboard that had similar kind of key arrangement.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

There's some really interesting ergonomic studies in DataHand that we learned a ton from in the development process

@dmitryplatonov

10 күн бұрын

​@@CharaChorderI would appreciate an in-depth comparison to DataHand.

As someone in the comments already mentioned what is the default layout without the black keys at the bottom? Changing the default layout further segments your products. What is the comfort/ergonomic changes between CC1 and MF, (closer together, taller, etc.) In a cold climate aluminum seems like a poor choice to choose as it's not comfortable especially when it's freezing and with sharp corners, I tend to rest or slip from my CC1 and that would feel bad man.jpg. I like the USB placement of the MF and the deeper switches look like I'd slip less than the CC1. I have an old CC1 that has much stiffer switches than my newer CC1 and the feel is DRASTIC. I'd love to try different "key" caps for the CC1.

As a mobile split keyboard, hands-in-the-hoodie style typing experience, this would be awesome! It's much more compact than a traditional qwerty keyboard, and they felt crammed when mobile keyboards were still a thing. Great work. It's nice to see innovation in this area!

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

I've absolutely used this in a hoodie pocket before and it's wonderful haha

My first thought was "oh I would love a way to type faster, but a keyboard layout is used for so much more than just typing". I'm very curious about how it handles gaming because one of the big things that the keyboard layout is used for is arbitrary input. Think playing music or controlling a character or activating spells in an MMO. And for some of those, the specific grid layout of the keyboard is critical. I also worry about visibility. I touch type. But I don't have every special character memorised and I don't know that its practical to do so. But what happens when you need to enter a character on your keyboard that isn't memorised? On a QWERTY keyboard its written there. You can always fall back on looking at the keys, which I do when I enter special characters and numbers in many cases. Is there a fallback with this kind of device?

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

New gaming demo incoming soon! It's really great for MMOs. It also comes with a reference guide for when you are still learning the layout ;)

This is basically the kind of thing stenographers use in court to transcribe things quickly. This would also make a wild game controller.

@CharaChorder

27 күн бұрын

It's very different from steno. Check out the 'brief history of chording video' to learn more. Also just posted a new gaming video!

@zoned7609

26 күн бұрын

​@@CharaChorder What difference are you focusing on to say they are dissimilar? From the outside, it seems like yes the court one isn't universally usable by a normal consumer, but the similarities I was pointing out are the fact that both use chording. IMO that similarity is larger and more salient than the different workflows and applications - essentially it seems like they both achieve the same task with very similar means.

@boinqity4621

23 күн бұрын

@@CharaChorder it uses a small amount of inputs to create a massive amount of possible results, allowing you to type fast without having good dexterity and fine motor skills. in what way is that unlike a stenotype

Welcome to the world of Star Trek, this is brilliant!

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Petition to make M4G primary interface for all SpaceX/NASA vehicles? 🖐️

@schmackofatzer82

Ай бұрын

@@CharaChorder For sure they could turn this into a handheld controller that doesn't need to be fixed in place, I think the user experience and efficiency would be great compared to typing on a keyboard in zero gravity🤓

@CaptZenPetabyte

Ай бұрын

@@CharaChorder this is light years ahead of where I started looking at different keyboards for efficiency; the FrogPad chording keypad ... this is a complete paradigm shift; as chorded keypads can be a pain with their dictionaries and there arent many for my profession and use writing adacemic papers etc in Psychology. This has re-sparked the interest, thank you

@petertcormack3570

Ай бұрын

@@schmackofatzer82 : Absolutely this! I have a vision of something in a roughly spherical shape with the CharaChorder sticks. Just pick up the "keyball" and type away. Let it float around the cabin, or stick it to the wall somewhere, or to your person, and you're ready to "input" any time! With intelligent bluetooth connections (the device senses which computer you want to interface with and is already connected to that computer by the time you start typing), and you have the ideal multi-input device!

@RobertYourell

Ай бұрын

In Star Trek, nobody types. They talk with the computer.

I just wonder if the special characters like ; : ( [ { @ $ are also implemented, like for programmers, and also even the other special keys like esc, enter, home, end, etc

That’s a neat concept; using 5-way hat-switches (typical for joysticks and HOTAS-controls in aircraft) instead of buttons/1D-switches.

Would be awesome to try. I am afraid it would be a lot more expensive to buy than a regular keyboard. Do they have support for other languages with extra special characters? What about Gaming, they are often designed for how your fingers are positioned on the keyboard. But I guess rebinding in the games, could make up for that.

@CharaChorder

28 күн бұрын

Yes to special characters & gaming! Just posted a gaming demo

This seems like a great option to use with a VR headset because you won’t need to find the home row every time you move a hand away from the keyboard.

@CharaChorder

19 күн бұрын

Yes, it's great for VR/AR

Its certainly an interesting prospect! Though having gone full bluetooth on all my peripherals, it is very difficult to go back to cables. Have you considered whether the CharaChorder functionality can be modeled by the ZMK firmware? If not, what changes would be necessary to ZMK for it to work? Because that might be a "simple" avenue for comms between the split devices and to the receiving device. Which in turn would enable interoperability with phones/tablets/etc. If it is possible, I think that alone would be great advertisement for your hardware, as ZMK users would want a keyboard that better supported chording, if it was a feature that they started using on their own keyboards. Just my two cents as a Glove80 user who wants to be convinced, but is not yet.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

We have created our own custom OS for peripheral devices called CCOS, and it can be used to build custom devices via the CharaChorder Engine chip module which can be built upon via serial API (documentation at docs.charachorder.com)

@thp4983

Ай бұрын

@@CharaChorder Did you mean to respond to someone else? I don't think you addressed any of my points: 1. What about bluetooth? 1a. If nothing is planned, why not look into ZMK firmware, which supports bluetooth out of the box. 2. Could the functionality be modeled using ZMK firmware? 2a. if not, what is the missing functionality in ZMK for it to support CharaChorder. 3. Supporting ZMK could bring more users to your hardware.

@petertcormack3570

Ай бұрын

@@thp4983 : I think you might be right, but it's possible he was saying that you can build a keyboard with ZMK around the CharaChorder engine. My main difficulty with something like that is all of the other mechanical difficulties (pcbs, switches, case, etc) that would be needed for a project like that. I agree with you that CharaChorder building a wireless product based on ZMK would be much better.

Thinking it was a chording keyboard was a turn off for me, glad it's not, now i wanted to try... do you sell switchs alone for custom keyboard build?

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

We created CharaChorder Engine so anyone can build their own custom version. Check out our daily update series which started in January to see what switches were tested and used as a part of the development process!

That keyboard has a massive learning curve that about 90% of the US population would never bother to try and use, i would like to see spatial typing and computing on the same flat keyboard physical pcs use But tbh i would def try 3D typing, it looks really fun but again a massive learning curve

Sounds great for someone who never used a keyboard but learning this for an adult would take so much time you could learn the play the piano or another musical instrument for the same cost investment. Heck I can't and won't even switch the Qwerty after using Azerty all my life.

How to work multilingual? Let's say I write sometimes in Spanish, sometimes in English and sometimes in Esperanto: one single keyboard layout works for me. But I suppose with this, there must be a way to change dictionaries?

I see an insane learning curve and will just continue to dictate to my devices which is just as quick without the time required to learn a seemingly difficult ans expensive tech and doesn't require me to remlve gloves, stop driving etc.

It's alivee!!!!

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Gahhh!!! Just wait until they see what Derrk is cookin... 😁

A CC1 but with better key switches is excactly what I wanted! Looks great!

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Thank you!!

You said you code everyday on your CC1, do you use the standard layout?

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Yes

In order to learn to use this product, would it be helpful to learn how to chord with a keyboard or other chording device first? Or are those skills not transferable?

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

All CCOS powered devices are layout agnostic, and chord libraries are transferrable between devices with different layouts. So short answer is yes, but a chord library built for a specific layout may not be optimal when used with another, at least not at first

I really hope the thing is adjustable, physically! Keeping my wrists locked like that, if it isn't tailered to my hands (which changes over time), sounds like a carpal tunnel disaster. One advantage of a normal keyboard is if your hands are tired you can change your position. I also wonder ablut the decision making process for choosing which letters go where, if it's tailored to natural language or something else. In particular I'm interedted in seeing how it performs in other contexts, such as gaming or coding. I think a lot of control schemes assume the keyboard layout, so you might get awkward options like having to press two buttons at the same time (eg Alt + i + p). Also, if that were customizable, you could make it function in a greater variety of contexts, but you'd lose the muscle memory.

I think it would be more ergonomic to keep my hands more vertical and farther apart compared to how the keyboard is set up currently. Is this possible with the master forge? And can you click with one of the thumb sticks?

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Ooo wait until you see the ergo Bolt-Ons in action. Maybe next week's video?

@niamhleeson3522

Ай бұрын

OK, you've got my attention.

This might be a better keyboard but I wonder how useful is that for gaming, probably better than regular with 4x the buttons per finger.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Absolutely it is, gaming demo coming soon

Interesting that the Azeron gaming keyboard came to the same conclusion of per finger directional input. Though ofc their way of achieving that is way different.

Interesting device for sure! I'm trying to use VTT software like whisper instead of typing altogether :D It's pretty good at turning even my "Hunglish" into text. The only real challenge has been abbreviations and words like the one I just used "Hunglish" ... but this can be dealt with by a local LLM now.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

There's a time and place for everything! Both VTT and keyboard usage are both dramatically on the rise 🙌

Have you had a chance to play with a datahand keyboard? (Your fingers rest in wells, and can get different key activations in 4+1 directions for each fingertip. Mid 1990s, I think?) Much larger than this of course, and out of production for decades...

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Ya I've made a video on this somewhere. They still sell for thousands when they go up on eBay. Some of the ergonomic studies they did really helped pave the way for us

I don't do much all out typing (despite being on the computer almost all day), but I love the idea of mutli-directional keys. Being able to leave your hand in place and have access to so many keys at once sounds great. Really wonder how it feels - immediate concern would be the switch sensitivity in all the directions - especially since I don't feel I have great individual side-to-side motion with all my fingers - at least not without others moving some as well. I'm sure you get better at it with practice though. Price is a bit up there - not saying it isn't "worth" it, but it's certainly going to be a preventative thing for many. Very cool concept though.

Seems very useful for people whose job involves a lot of typing quickly and who can't use dictation, like secretaties or stenographers!

I don't really see the whole world eventually switching to this, just because a normal keyboard is so standardized now. However, as someone who uses a computer daily, and likes learning random things, I might actually try this out. Looks cool!

@thats.me.ashley4893

16 күн бұрын

I think the world could eventually. Like, after learning to use it I wish I would've had CharaChorder lessons in school instead of keyboarding lessons 😂

Hey awesome tech! Do you feel this is this worth my while to purchase/build and learn? I write papers for university but in doing so I write below my average speed/proficiency. I’m not sure if a device like this would help my productivity in a meaningful way since I already limit my speed. However, this is new to me so I’d like to hear your experience!

The high "bit density" per finger makes me very interested to know if a one-handed or wrist-mounted version of this exists, for wacky new kinds of mobile computing.

@CharaChorder

19 күн бұрын

there's a one handed typing mode available by default

Admittedly I'm afraid of learning new keyboard layouts because then I worry I will become hardware bound (i.e. when I go to use another computer I will be worse unless I implement my bespoke settings. And this is NEXT LEVEL, I would have to bring my own hardware. This is amazing though... I'm so intrigued.

@CharaChorder

19 күн бұрын

If you're afraid of new keyboard layouts maybe check out CharaChorder Lite :)

this is awesome! how do i get one of these keyboards?

Mouse built in or do I need to remove my hand from the device, like I have to do now with a keypad, and then rehome my hand position on the device?

I would love to see you playing "The Typing of the Dead" with this.

@CharaChorder

18 күн бұрын

I already have, it's super fun. There's a video on our page somewhere. When you chord it's a shotgun and character entry is machine gun haha

How good does this keyboard do for other things? F. e. what if you need to press a combination of keys that are on the same stick in some game?

Issues with having a 3D keyboard: -Steeper learning curve -Accessibility (one hand, less fingers, poor motor skills due to disability, etc.) -Compatibility (how am I going to control my favorite games with these keyboards?) I could see it be incredible for stereographers, though I know they already use better keyboards, but it's just not the end-all-be-all.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

-Easier to learn than qwerty (also qwerty options available -There's a one handed typing mode -It's great for gaming as well! Less travel distance means faster reaction time 🤩

@honordevs

Ай бұрын

​@@CharaChorder I do like the idea of these new keyboard types and I often try/review keyboards for friends when something interesting comes out; however, I have some concerns with your reply and a few questions: Quick note before you read this: I have only seen this one video. So, I am an ill-informed average skeptical developer with questions. Save yourself time and skip my comment if you're busy. That said... I would have to respectfully disagree with the "easier to learn" line. If you know English, you can type on a QWERTY keyboard without any training--at all. Maybe the MF1 is labeled, so you could do the same... But is it more intuitive to a new buyer than simply pressing the button they want on an easy-to-read flat plain-text layout? Probably not. I think you could claim that your keyboard is faster and easier to type with after only X hours of learning (say, 8 to 14 hours, full immersion)--that, I could get behind. I would want to know what your typing speed is? I'm at about 100~120 on my QWERTY, but I'm not partial to it, if something is just flat-out better. I would also assume you need to properly utilize function keys to altar basic keystrokes, which would add another layer of complexity. And maybe you have Ai built into the logic to auto-correct simple mistakes (similar to swipe input on smartphones), would that logic fail on weird strings like "34&vbASW2"? From a developer's perspective, that would be a huge deal-breaker. Then you have one-offs, like: -Can I be lazy and lean back in my chair, then type a few things with one hand while browsing YT or responding a simple slack message? -Can my wife instantly type on it without training, even after I've set it up for myself, if she needs to use my computer for some reason? -Can I search through folders via a few letters and click enter, like a power-user, rather than using the scroll wheel? I can do that with one hand atm, so my mouse if free. -What about complex shortcuts and inputs? All my OS and IDE shortcuts need to be usable. -How long does it last with heavy use? A few of the keyboards I've built have lasted about 3~5 years. Do the sticks wear-out? Can I find easy replacements for parts? Software updates/interface? Macros?

How good would this thing be at playing virtual piano? I use a qwerty keyboard to play music and it can sound passable, but I wonder what would be the potential for this would be.

Listen, it's a learning curve, sure, but one worth learning in my opinion. The essays I could write with so much less pain

Concerned about switch reliability. Will replacements be available ?

@CharaChorder

18 күн бұрын

these switches are rated at 20 million cycles, and are also user serviceable

Exactly what i need ❤ it looks already so great

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

❤

Is it really 3-D or just 2-D? Would be interesting to try in any case :) One thing that came in to my mind is that this feels more like writing with pen where you remember what you wrote than typing with traditional keyboard which doesn't give you as detailed feeling of what you just typed. And I wonder if it would be more useful to write things down with this kind of keyboard.

@CharaChorder

28 күн бұрын

Just like everyone has a distinct handwriting, with this device everyone has a distinct signature. Check out our video on text entanglement

This makes me think of my phone's custom keyboard (using Keyboard Designer app) where each button can have a "press", "hold", and "swipe up/down/left/right" for each key/button.

I just learnt the Colemac Keyboard because this is faster but this is a whole different level

To all of yall complaing about the learning curve. For regular typing operations, its not that steep. Its just like any other layout.

Does this mean you're shipping now? Because I ordered a long time ago (prob january) and the website said it was planning on shipping in June (or july I forgot)

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Not shipping yet! This is the first ever demo, and now we are just starting manufacturing. Thank you so much for your support and patience! 🙇‍♂️

@phyto1235

Ай бұрын

@@CharaChorder So when are you planning on shipping? (I'm just really excited to get mine ^^)

What was the name of those 4-directional switches? I'm thinking of making a pair for my hands. 5 of them for each hand should be enough. It'll make the whole build really small

@CharaChorder

28 күн бұрын

Look up "5-way tactile switch" easy to build your own with CharaChorder Engine! Let us know how we can help

Oh cool! - where do you get that digital D-pad like joystick at 2:27 ?

@CharaChorder

28 күн бұрын

I think that one is digikey

@DavidFilskov

28 күн бұрын

Thanks!

Does the Master Forge have better-quality switches than the CharaChorder 1? They sound clickier, at least. I gave up on the CC1 because the switches were such bad quality that they would be unreliable and have physical problems within a week of using.

This would make a sick prop for a si fi movie

I had thought about it a long time ago. Not in this ergonomic way, mostly as a more compact keybord.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Great minds think alike!

@lloydgush

Ай бұрын

@@CharaChorder I wouldn't call my mind great, but I'm glad someone done it.

I believe people complaining that it is too complicated forgot how long it takes to learn to type fast lol

@Legendary_Honey

16 күн бұрын

This is totally different. It's another layer of difficulty that doesn't have easy early introductions, such as being able to look at the physical letters as you type or familiarizing yourself with the layout on your phone keyboard. Learning this certainly isn't some sort of impossible task, but it's enough that most people won't care. If it was something mandatorily taught in schools, it would be a different story. I'm sure most hobbyists, or those who care about typing fast, are, however, excited for this.

@it-s-a-mystery

16 күн бұрын

​@@Legendary_HoneySchools adopting tech like this is exactly how they become standards. You could say the same thing about the common keyboard or computers in general. Standards are adopted over generations, not overnight. That said, it is mostly the speed/productivity or (of this is less strenuous), wrist health reasons that will decide if schools are made to notice something like this.

@oli_dev

16 күн бұрын

Also, for people who are struggling with RSI like me, these new innovative keyboards are a godsend. I dont care how long it takes me to learn, at least I may be able to type without my tendons blowing up

@Refreshment01

8 күн бұрын

Basically had a similar idea decades ago but for videogame controllers. Sunstitute the a,b,x,y eith a switch of this type. No one liked it taught. Do what im tryimg to say most people prefer something known instead of something new that might be bettwr.

amazing, lets build such a product, I'd like to buy it

My cousin would live this, he'd be an expert by next week, and telling me how this is in all ways superior to traditional keyboards.

@CharaChorder

19 күн бұрын

Your cousin sounds like a smart guy

I like the concept, my only recommendation would be to go for a more ergonomic design, the angles on that thing seem like they could be painful on your hand after extended hours of use. Other than that, A+

I've been following the charachorder for a good year now, it honestly is very cool and I can see it being the next generation of keyboard. I'm just wondering, how would one know the special characters, even using the normal QWERTY keyboard, I don't memorize where the special characters are placed despite being able to type reasonably fast (120KPM). Great demonstration nonetheless!

I am curious. Given that this is the same style as the CC1. So it’s not for ease of use. I am a big fan a CharaChorder technology. Can you please tell us a little about what problems this keyboard solves. Is it faster or more efficient than the CC1? Is it more comfortable. Would it be an upgrade over the CC1. Should someone pick this over the CC1 or is it a less expensive option rather than something like CC2. I am intrigued, can you do a full comparison please. Is there a speed difference or even speed improvement. Is it more or less ergonomic. Should we learn this or CC1 if we are just starting.

@CharaChorder

28 күн бұрын

Full comparison coming soon!

@plotakiotrionqui2116

28 күн бұрын

@@CharaChorder Sounds good 👍

Hm, I have a question, does it have ability to use multiple languages and have ways to switch them as well as show hints for keys on other layout? This stuff is often get neglected, but it is important to make device usable keyboard replacement. If it didn't have anything like that, then it not worth looking at it.

reminds me of the datahand keyboard from the 90s

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Absolutely! Some of their ergonomic studies have really paved the way for us. Crazy how when a Datahand goes up for sale online it will still go for thousands 😳

Sometime I would like a version of this softwere where you can tell it your custom keyboard layout and it start teaching you the letters 1 letter at a time and 1 direction at a time... kind of like how kid learning software teaches you h and F first, then moves on to d and j, so on and so forth.

Man discovered the "JoyStick" lol Edit: but I love it!

@CharaChorder

28 күн бұрын

Lol! The difference between this and analog sticks is shown near the beginning 😊

I don't understand. Can I buy one of these keyboards? On their site it says this: The Master's Forge is currently locked, and will be unlocked upon reaching the 275K tier in Forge Unlockables. Preordering will reserve your place in line, and will also help contribute to unlocking the Master's Forge. Your preorder is eligible for a full refund at any time.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

We changed the goal to 75k given that most people preordering have wanted this product. The website is pretty out of date, will be updating really soon here with Kickstarter launch

I haven't used this. But it's worth pointing out that anyone can pick up something like this in relatively limited time and keep the skillset for life. I'm 40 and I picked up an old nokia phone the other day and wanted to see if I could still type an SMS. I didn't need to look at the keys, and sure it was slower than I used to be, but the muscle/brain connections were very much still all there.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

My mom can already type 80wpm on it lol

@Superabound2

28 күн бұрын

I actually kinda miss texting on a keypad. I could do it without even looking at the screen

I think a big component of why we haven't seen a lot of evolution with keyboard layouts over the years is gaming's WASD usage. Being able to translate cardinal directions into a cardinal directional layout just makes it easy to grasp. The keys point in the direction you want to go and that's intuitive. With something like this to go forward you'd have your thumb push right. That strikes me as really hard for the brain to wrap itself around. This is super intriguing though... I'd really like to have the time to learn it.

@tylerbabinec8473

28 күн бұрын

The other aspect is touch screen typing. How would we have 3d typing on 2d touch screens/ not updating screens but then everyone needs to memorize two different typing layouts or have the touch screen ultimately reinforce poor typing habits... Not hating, but questions to be asked

@CharaChorder

28 күн бұрын

Just posted a gaming video!

@SantitariumHaze

28 күн бұрын

@@CharaChorder awesome!!! Just started watching it. Don’t know why I didn’t think of remapping lol. Once this thing releases i’m saving up.

What do you think about using such a keyboard for programming where you have more special characters like ()#/;:!{}[]&-+_ Will it be faster/ more efficient than a standard keyboard?

Does this support languages other than English? I always switch between multiple languages and use special characters for taking notes and learning to code. If I can use all 40+ letters of my language, numbers and symbols, use shortcuts, switch fast between languages AND have arrow keys or something to replace them then I'm sold. It is also nice to see the labels on the keycaps when using a different language. Could be solved with a popup but then there is a popup. Also also nice to use shortcuts with one hand and mouse over text with the other hand.

@CharaChorder

19 күн бұрын

Yes absolutely. Check out the language support channel on our Discord!

I grant your point about the stenography circle overshadowing the actual use case of this device, but at the same time, would stenography *not* be an excellent use case for something like this?

@CharaChorder

19 күн бұрын

Yes, in addition to what's shown here it can of course do everything a stenograph can as well

What about other languages? This is definitely optimized for english, are there other layouts?

If you separate them, one side could also work as a mouse.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Check out our earlier updates to see this 😁

i really like the idea but my main issue with most of these improved keyboard design is that it's rarely one hand-able as someone that do a lot of CAD and gaming, my main posture is one hand on mouse on all time. With this setup i still need a keyboard to execute all my shortcut and if i want to type very short word , i can't use the fancy keyboard without taking my hand out of my mouse

@Capumaraca

Ай бұрын

This. The product will never replace traditional keyboard. It's extremely good at one task and will be useful for some people most of the time, but software develop around hardware, and the current keyboard form factor has been integrated in so many tasks that it's impossible to just replace it with a new device altogether. I still love the innovation and the project looks genuinely cool.

@arryaxx263

Ай бұрын

According to their post above, you can manage Blender shortcuts entirely with one hand. Not sure if that's accurate or not, but that would be really nice.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

There's a one handed typing mode so you can access all hot keys without lifting your hand off the mouse. It is absolutely GOATED for cad work

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Stay tuned for gaming demos soon 😁

@kevinb1594

Ай бұрын

Really what this means is we need a new interface to replace the dated MOUSE as well as the keyboard

I would like to see a demonstration of this keyboard being used in Blender. Blender is very shortcut oriented and obviously you are only using a keyboard, and no mouse. Using Blender with this device seems like it would increase your work load. After getting over the initial learning curve of course.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

3D inputs are absolutely goated for cad. You have access to every possible hotkey with one hand and never have to break contact

@guestc142

Ай бұрын

Old shortcut I used to know when I used 2.7x: ctrl + alt + shift + c. I think it's for setting origins.

@johnsarthole

Ай бұрын

​@@CharaChorder I'm unconvinced.. Most 3d apps require that you use multiple modifiers and a mouse button for navigation and a good 90% of your time is spent with one hand off the keyboard. Even standard-ish split boards like the corne/lily etc are completely unusable without loading a keymap that's unsuitable for typing.

@Fenix_Kage

9 күн бұрын

@@johnsarthole This has buttons for right and left mouse click, as well as one that moves the cursor around. I imagine it might not be as fluid as a mouse, but it will definitely be a lot faster when in applications that require frequently moving back and forth between keyboard and mouse.

The image on the website seems to show only 4 instead of the 6 finger switches, is the image of a prior model, or is it the bottom, or what am I missing? To be clear, I'm not talking about the thumb switches at all.

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Ya, website is way out of date. Major updates coming soon

@ChrisIsMe8

Ай бұрын

@@CharaChorder Well shit, I'm now even more sold on the Master's Forge =P I heard/read something about any who make a purchase while it's at the ~$300 pre-order price will get some bonuses, but also something about before a certain date. What matters to me: if I put in my pre-order before June (will happen regardless), will that make me special?

at this point just use a stenographers chord system which is probably the fastest way to type anyways

How does this work with multiple languages, like what if I wanted to write in Spanish, or even something like Japanese?

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

It is possible to type both Spanish and Japanese with an IME. We have made demo videos showing both. To talk with other international users join our discord!

Interesting!

How does this cater for different languages? Let's say I type more in German than English, would (or should) the layout of the letters be different depending on their frequency of occurrence and common combinations?

Cool YT random recommendation, does this technique help become keyboard warrior?

@CharaChorder

Ай бұрын

Sir... With this technique you'll be more like a "Keyboard Warlord" ⚔️🛡️⌨️