Not much discussion on the advantages of low magic... 1. More sense of accomplishment when PCs find a magical item, 2. Better control over wealth (i.e. you can't sell off 20+ magical items and buy a city or hire an army, access to raise dead or teleport isn't just walking into a church/wizards tower and pulling out a +2 sword and saying "Does this cover it?") 3. Encounters are better scaled (i.e. enemies aren't using six wands of fireballs against the party, nor does the party all have sun swords to deal with undead) This often leads to an arms race, where the DM needs more powerful creatures, equip enemies with magic, more serious ambushes, etc. to counter all your magic. 4. Character abilities remain useful. A rogue specializing in climbing or a wizard who takes fly as a spell isn't a chump because every PC is going to find/get wings of flying, flying carpets, or winged boots. A paladin's mount is special because the rest of the party doesn't all have figurines of wondrous power able to summon griffons at will. Avoids meta-gaming... why take a high strength when I'm just going to get gauntlets of ogre power. 5. It is easier to challenge to the PCs. Terrain, cliffs, towers, darkness, werewolves, etc. aren't simply overcome by looking in your inventory list. 6. You aren't training players to merely look in their inventory to solve any problem. Players have to role-play, think, cooperate, etc. in order to overcome problems. More rewarding when they do. 7. Because of 6, you train better players. Able to think, puzzle solve, etc. You don't get massive complaints when something can't be solved looking through their inventory, because they've never had to. Low-magic players are far better prepared for a high magic campaign (later) than high magic players are for a low-magic campaign. 8. It encourages and fosters more roleplaying. You don't have powerful magic, so you need help from NPCs --fostering relationships with a church might be necessary to get a raise dead, traveling to a remote wizard's tower might be needed to learn how to defeat a monster, etc. In high-magic players often ignore others as they don't need the villager's help when they have a +3 lightning sword and a ring of genie summoning. Low magic often encourages roleplaying in finding magical items. 9. Low magic is easier for new DMs to run. Hard to control a game when players are pulling out magical items which blow through every encounter. DMs have more control over pace, challenge, story, plot, etc. Economies, settings, etc. are easier to make based on historical norms. 10. You tend to have better DMs. If a DM is used to running low-level magic campaign, chances are they are better at keeping it imaginative, interesting, encounters are better scaled, etc. rather than merely trying to bribe players with magical items to keep them interested.

@panpiper

5 жыл бұрын

I much prefer being a player, but I've done my share of GMing because somebody has to. In both roles however, while everyone loves to have magic items, if one is too liberal with them they lose their magic. I do not want to be in a position where the feats I take with my character pale to insignificance because the items I possess overwhelm anything they might bequeath. I GM the way I would want for a GM were I a player in that game. By level five, every character will have the equivalent of a +1 magic weapon and one or two other items of equal value. I will typically tailor most such items to the party rather than leaving it up to chance. This usually will net some sort of magic item reward in each gaming session. The items are precious, are seen as such, yet they are not so much as to overshadow the character build itself. By tenth level They will again most often by then each have a +2 weapon and a couple other equivalent items. By this point they may have sold off a couple of items and maybe purchased something. By fifteenth level they'll be at +3. They are not rolling in +3 items, but they have managed to acquire enough to ensure they each can fight on that level. By level 20, they will have each acquired something of legendary status and have more choice of +3 level gear. At no point does the finding of magic gear seem trivial. At every point the decisions they have made with their characters remain of vastly more import than the gear they are carrying. They have magic in their game, but this way the magic remains significant. It is not so much magic that the magic is rendered as trivial as their characters are rendered trivial by the items.

@juanmanikings

Жыл бұрын

Nah i agree with the other guy high magic is more fun if i want to play D&D i want to be able to do things that are impossible in real life not some medieval simulator with some magic that's boring to me and you can in fact make dark fantasy with high magic it doen't necessary means it has to be epic fantasy

Low magic with few magic items and never magic shops beyond potions and scrolls.

I'm 100% on Scott's team!!! "Life is scrabbling in the dirt, why should your D^D game be...?" I feel the same way.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Duly noted. - Nerdarchist Dave

I appreciate the fact that you voice different answers to this question. One thing I really can't stand is when people start preaching about how their way to play the game is the only way, and that the game will implode unless it's played just so (and you get that argument from both sides, unfortunately). That said, my own inclinations are similar to Dave's. As has already been pointed out by several people in this discussion, the idea that you have to compete with video games and hand out oodles of magic items has been tried already - in 4e. If you like 4e and its style - more power to you, but it's widely recognized now that the approach was a flop in terms of expanding the community and D&D specifically. 5e has been a success precisely because the designers have recognized that it's becoming a more hipster hobby (hence the Old School Renaissance). People want to role-play, to operate in worlds with an identity that you can respect, to come up with ingenious solutions to problems that don't involve wagon-loads of magic items or complex charts. As for where to find players - there are tons of old-timers who like that sort of game, along with a younger, retro-set that wants to try something other than a tabletop version of MMOs. Plus, some of the old-timers are now raising a new generation of gamers right in their own household. Plus there are now online communities like the OSG where you can find players. Still, the issue of "high magic" vs. "low magic" is not just an issue of magic items. "Low magic" games are also games in which spells are rare, and from that perspective, 5e is not a low-magic game. Almost every class has some sort of magical abilities, and that being so, the question is, how can you tone down the magic item haul, but allow NPCs and monsters to address PCs natural abilities. For example, a low-level warlock with Eldritch blast can destroy a locked chest in a fairly minimal amount of time. Does that mean that *every* chest will now become magically trapped or surrounded by hordes of monsters? The ability to cast an unlimited number of damage-causing cantrips is also a legacy of 4e, but it's hard to have a low-magic game, strictly speaking, if you are using a set of rules where that's the case. In old school editions, a low-level spell caster had a spell or two, and once those were cast, you had to live by your wits as best you could. Obviously, that's much more propitious for a low-magic game. Lastly, I think a distinction should be made between permanent items and one-shot items. One-shot items like scrolls and potions are significantly less powerful, and their number could be increased without overloading the game with magic. The item crafting rules in the DMG need some work, because they make it virtually impossible to make some fairly basic potions. I don't have any problem with PCs making a lot of the items they use because: it prevents hack'n'slash games (I need new magic items, so I'm going to go slaughter some monsters in a dungeon); it actually increases role-playing possibilities (PCs need a base of operations and an understanding with local authorities; they need to establish a connection with materials suppliers, the creation of each item may be role-played out, so these really are items with a history); and if there is concern with a proliferation of items, their number can easily be regulated by giving the characters less money, less time, suppliers disappear for a variety of reasons, etc. So that's my 4-cents' worth.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Welcome to team Dave. Yea D&D in of itself isn't really a low magic game like you said. The infinite cantrips is something I really like it just means the casters start on par with the Warriors, but at the same time 5e has kept warriors relevant at the upper levels. - Nerdarchist Dave

I DM since 94', in AD&D 2nd Ed and me and many of my players passed for all this types of games. In the end - and after 24 years of gaming - one of the most awarding experiences with magic items was with the concept of "bounding". When a player gets an item - in a medium/low magic campaing - the item grows in power with time: the more time the chars spend using and making the item "unique" for themselves, the more powerful the item gets. At the end of some campaigns (15th to 20th level, mostly), many magic items got names given by the players that owns them and... man... they VALUE every single item. Not every item was "allowed" to bound, but some more meaningful to the "bounding" (a sword that gave the final strike to a powerful enemy or an armor that protected its owner from a deadly blow). This is my tip: make the items valuable to the players by roleplay, not by mechanics :D

Let me run a hypothesis by everyone here: People tend to start out playing D&D as high magic by default, but some eventually have their fill of it. Next, they explore low magic to emphasize other aspects of the game. I'm curious if others have noted a similar trend.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

+thegrimjester yup I did. By the time I hooked up with the current group in my early twenties I'd gotten all of the Monty Haul stuff out of my system. -Nerdarchist Dave

These videos made me the game master I am now, back when I was studying and actually taking notes from you guys all those years ago. It feels amazing to come back and rewatch. This channel was true actual magic to me.

@Nerdarchy

2 жыл бұрын

We are happy we were able to help. Nerdarchist Dave

To capture the feeling of what I've written below: The clothes don't make the man, and the magical gear doesn't make the character. My 3.5 players have characters at around 14th level. I don't think any of them have gear beyond +2, and most of the small sample of magical gear that they have was created by the wizard in the group. Regardless, they have beaten, outwitted, or avoided foes with damage resistance/magic; even when they didn't have magic gear. On another note, I find it amusing that there are public magic shops that sell amazing magical items that nearly no one can afford. In my mind, these shops would be targeted for theft constantly (the local thieves guild would go after anyone walking in). Also, have you ever noticed how much a gold piece can buy someone in 3.5? If you make one 2k gold sale of a Ring of Protection +1, you can spend 291 gold a year to live in a common quality inn, eating common meals every day. That's close to 7 years of rent and food (3.5 years if you assume that he bought it originally at 1k). How many people come in with even 1k gold in their pocket to spend each week? Where did the shop keeper get the gear from? Why are they giving up these powerful items instead of using them? Why aren't they being seized/purchased by the local authorities who would undoubtedly be threatened by their power? This is the kind of thing you would see Order of the Stick joking about. I'm sure some people can rationalize all of the above. I probably could too, but I just don't want to.

@NathanRiggins

9 жыл бұрын

+thegrimjester A magic shop selling powerful items requires an equally powerful security force, otherwise I agree that bad things would happen. Also there is an issue with the cost of items and how realist it is to have that much cash in the economy. If a person can buy a castle keep for 50,000 gp or a magic sword for that much then most NPC would think it insanity to buy a sword instead of a castle keep. And you don't just find 50,000 about the place either, that is dragon hoard level of money.

@voltron736

7 жыл бұрын

The magic shop is a front to fence the thieves guild loot.

@LordCyler

7 жыл бұрын

Nathan Riggins "Bad things will happen" is called an Adventure hook where I come from.

there is a place for all three styles.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Here at Nerdarchy we kind of pride ourselves on not trying to tell people their is right way. Mostly we just express our opinions. - Nerdarchist Dave

I agree with Dave here. I played until 12th level before I got a magic weapon. I had to fight tooth and nail to get it in preparation for a fight to stop Tiamat and you know what? It was worth it and made it fun. Had I just been handed a +1 Halberd at level 5 it would not have been interesting.

@NathanRiggins

9 жыл бұрын

+Kevin R The adventure to get a weapon or power can be just as much fun as using it later. I just don't see the point of making them almost non existent

@kevinhistorynut

9 жыл бұрын

Its not that they are non existent but that they are rare. I needed a very specific magic item and that's why it was difficult. Making each item valuable and with a story behind it is my favorite way of handling it. maybe I just read too much wheel of time.

@whitecreamymilk8436

9 жыл бұрын

+Kevin R Haha i would have to agree with that.. have most magic weapons be like sting from lord of the rings... less common and three times as useful.

@kevinhistorynut

9 жыл бұрын

Exactly they should be rare and memorable. They should also be useful though and make for a good story.

@whitecreamymilk8436

9 жыл бұрын

I'm running a feywild campaign, and there are magic items everywhere, just the characters can't get them, the elves just flat out won't let them have any, or even trade for them. The only areas magic items can be found for character use is dragon hordes and troll caves... But there is a bonus check to find them through all the pretty shiny stuff.. After all.. In real life whose going to notice an axe in a pile of gems and gold? No one.. So why should they notice the leather belt that just so happens to give them giant strength without a check?

From now on, we're always going to have to deal with players coming from video games and having certain expectations of an RPG. Things like min-maxing are here to stay. There's no rolling the clock back to 1985. But, trying to make D&D more like MMO's was tried with 4e and it was a commercial and critical failure. The simple fact is that a pen and paper rpg can't compete with a computer game. That's why I think Dave's philosophy is better: instead of trying to compete with video games, give players an experience that could never get with a video game. People do get burned out playing a game like World of Warcraft that you can play non-stop for months, maybe even years, and they're going to want that different experience you can only get from a pen and paper rpg.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Thanks for weighing in on team Dave. - Nerdarchist Dave

@lucasrivero8432

8 жыл бұрын

+Nerdarchy team Dave!

Low magic, few magic users on the world, no magic shops

I love your discussion! Especially that part about the rat bursting open with treasure! I LOLed in my chair, man! I am half and half. Depending on the location, I can be super generous with items. On the other hand, if the PC's encounter a scouting or away team, they won't be bringing all their stuff. So it's location dependent. They just killed a dragon but it wasn't in its lair. So the treasure they got was the items it was wearing and the gems that got stuck in between scales.

im in the middle. "basic" magic items like +1 weapon could be easy to find, but more powerfull or memorable items, like a Holy avanger needs to be significant

What a great conversation! Thank you.

Bazaar of the Bizarre. Before it was a column in Dragon Magazine it was a magic store in Lankhmar from the tales of Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser.

@NathanRiggins

9 жыл бұрын

+Christian Oliver Great example of magic shop precedence in the game

I like to run lower magic settings, our other dm runs really high magic. I wish he'd tone it down a bit, I confronted him about it and he told me, "you guys always respond well to magic items and boons" .. I'm like "no crap! no one is going to say no to in game gifts." but it scaled everything to crazy levels.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

every DM must find their own path. I'd suggest enjoying their games for what they are. - Nerdarchist Dave

@chrisdonovan8795

9 жыл бұрын

+wade patterson I'll challenge that. I played a third edition monk. Not only was it a bad move, but I took the idea of the warrior striving physical perfection to the next level: he wouldn't accept magical assistance. This included items and healing. He died a glorious death at 8th level.

#teamscott I like how Skyrim (and the whole Elder Scrolls Universe) handles magic items, there are the Artifacts and Unique Magic Items that are handled exactly like D&D 5e handles magic items and there are the Generic Magic Items that are used by generic bandit leaders, high-rank soldiers of armies, npcs, etc...

Not sure how I missed this video! Very promising topic.

In a homebrew world me and my friend designed, there are magic items, but they are rare. On the other hand we use well made items and special materials for added bonuses. Example, +1 armor could be plated scales from a drake, or a +2 weapon made from meteor rock folded into steel, or possibly a bone from the tusk of a dragon. The possibilities are endless. So you can very well have great items without magic.

I've been in one campaign where we had too much magic loot. We went into a dungeon at level 2 and emerged at level 5. The dungeon was an underground city of skeletons all controlled by a single mohrg - we controlled the mohrg and commanded him to command the skeletons to kill each-other, then we looted every building in the entire ancient city. Upon emerging we had a nice collection of magic rings, a fire axe, a lightning axe, some various magic armor and clothes, everybody else's weapons were +1 or +2, approximately 100000 gold worth of jewels and treasures, and a +11 rapier that I think was worth over three million gold, though the DM wouldn't let us sell the rapier. That was freaking crazy.

Middle magic I have stores in cities but it's arms and legs maybe even a soul if you want the really good stuff but you want the statue of a bear spider or sword that turns into that it's still a few hundred gold

I use very low magic because my story is about the characters, and the building of their personal prowess & reputation. High magic cheapens this. Also, high magic world-logic breaks easily, and any sense of normal life falls away.

On Magic item shops: Cities (unless magic items or magic is banned there); or any town near a heavy adventure area, partially due to having to trade items for resurrections/remove curse/a horse to get the heck out of Dodge, partially because a smart trader goes to where the buyers and sellers are. The only items you'll find in a village are either from dead adventurers that died while passing through, family heirlooms of some adventuring ancestor, or in the possession of a former adventurer. Remembering of course that (at least in older editions) clerics and paladin's tend to donate items to the church, because of the max (and type of) items their vows allowed, and that temples would therefore tend to have plenty for the faithful...and the right price.

I like the guy in the middle he is great, and of course I love you guys! great video . Super applicable to all versions !

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed Scott. We love gaming and hanging out with him. He's a great guy. - Nerdarchist Dave

i played in a campaign where, through luck, skill, teamwork, communication, and "player enginuity" from all around the table, we looted the unlootable horde, and ended up with over 30 trillion gold that we calculated and something like 17000 magic items a piece. It was the best game ive ever played in because we continued the campaign and changed a world he had been building on and playing in for over 20 years.

@abrahamsorby7945

7 жыл бұрын

it was actually my first d&d game that i ever got invested into my character and played more than a few sessions

That was perfect, do more Game master tips :D

In my upcoming Pathfinder campaign I'm saying that the civilization has lost the ability and knowledge to craft magic items. However, there will be magic items scattered throughout the world as relics from the past times. I feel that's a good way to keep the magic items from getting out of control and making sure that each item is special. The PC's will still end up with several magic items to fill in the various slots but they won't be able to walk into a store and buy them.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

That is actually my preference. - Nerdarchist Dave

@ishmiel21

9 жыл бұрын

+Nerdarchy Right. Except my players will actually get some magic items :)

Start low and aim high. This keeps players wanting to come back each week to try out the new magical weapon they got at the end of the last quest.

I tend to go a little above the low magic style. I try to make sure every player feels rewarded by the game in some way whether it's money, items, progression, or insight. Everyone wants a reward for effort.

I'd vote for a kind of middle-ground like Ted. Firstly, it's not over-saturated with magic, so even low-level spells, like burning hands, minor image, etc. can feel powerful in their own right, but without creeping up the power of standard spellcasters (if 80% of the mages can cast fireball or lightning bolt it kind of trivializes the power and usage of the spells, which shouldn't be happening in my opinion). Secondly, if magic spells/items/events happen, they're far more rewarding and exciting to the players and DMs. But a low/high magic setting can be fun as well. I just think that if your whole world is full of magic, iE like World of Warcraft, you've got to be more extravagant and creative to let something really awesome happening. If your setting is low magic, iE like GoT, even the lowliest spell can be felt as extraordinarily powerful but it may be a little bit "boring". Not your story or setting, but I'm on Scott's side on this one. RL doesn't have magic, so why be shy using it in the game? :D

I always start out attempting to limit magic items, but then start finding fun stuff to dole out and get carried away.!

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

it happens to the best of us. - Nerdarchist Dave

I am almost exclusively a low magic DM. I typically use settings like Game of Thrones, or Lord of the Rings. The trick is to make combat, and the story exciting and dangerous

High magic done right, with the right players and right DM can be great. It’s also very much in the spirit of the original game. However, with the 5th edition ruleset and the current state of rp gaming low magic has some strong advantages. BWO22 makes some really good points about how a low magic campaign is easier to manage especially if it’s a lengthy campaign and the gameplay being more tactical. There are also some good strategic arguements for low magic.Many people coming to tabletop games now have lengthy experience with MMORPGs. These games suffer from an endless cycle of gear acquisition and replacement. A low magic campaign can offer an alternative to this. It’s refreshing to think that an item that you get in your first dungeon can still be useful ten levels later. An item like that becomes part of the character’s story, the player may well be tempted to name it and they’ll likely become known for wielding the item.Everyone on the panel mentioned the strength of table top games is the ability for players and DMs to be creative with rewards. I hear the scrabbling in the dirt arguments but that understates the impact of even a small amount of gold on a player’s status, options and lifestyle. It should be noted that in a medieval setting just acquiring a warhorse and armor instantly catapults a person into a different social status it doesn’t have to be magical. In addition, it just flat out makes for better storytelling. With all due respect to J.K. Rowling Harry Potter is no Lord of the Rings. Amusing and entertaining yes epic and genre defining no. This is taste and opinion but I’m confident that if most people list their favorite fantasy stories the low magic ones will head the list. It’s just more meaningful when a character has to figure out a solution to a challenge as opposed to just whipping out the right magic item to solve the problem. In low fantasy the item can become character’s themselves (The ‘Ring’ and the short sword ‘Sting’)That being said high magic stories can be good reads and show me a DM that knows how to run a high magic campaign and I’ll play but your odds of running a long successful campaign are better if you turn down the magic faucet.

Great Discussion!

@NathanRiggins

9 жыл бұрын

+Halloweenville Thanks

i do like having magic available in my games but the common stuff, which you can occasionally find for sale, has all got charges or is expendable in some way. so players find stuff but once they use it its gone. a permanent magic item of any kind is an ultra-rare find. also, in some areas (certain towns, villages, etc) permanent magic items have a superstitious reputation for being cursed or "from the Abyss," so even if a character has a +1 weapon or something (which usually either glow or make unusual sounds when swung about, or in the case of armor having it "on" creates a low hum, etc) they rarely activate it in those areas due to local prejudices. even a set of magic armor would have a command word to activate it, then its "on" for 10 minutes, and then it needs recharging -- which happens in a variety of ways depending on the piece (needs to be in moonlight for an hour, or sunlight, or one shield i designed needs to be washed and scrubbed since activating it causes it to accumulate corrosion, but then you spend a half hour cleaning it and its good as new again, etc). all of the recharging issues are tied to the back-story of the magic items as i think every permanent magic item should have a back-story. plus its fun to create those back-stories, too.

"Magical E-Bay" that's a concept a character can make a living by...lol As far as High vs. Low Magic games go, I have a tendency to bounce around during a campaign. They get either a bunch of magic items or none at all depending on their level. I also have a bunch of times where I had to take magic items away, and times where I had to literally tell the players how to defeat a monster with no magic items. Ebberon was a fun game I played in for over a year and a half, however we really didn't have a bunch of magic items in that game, but with psionics and magic and Warforged it got pretty O.P. in fact I was a Psychic Warrior Warforged, and I did some crazy crap (it was also the reason I died, aka baleful reposition replacing another character inside a T-Rex's mouth and using the psionic ability of Enlarge but getting swallowed at the same time). Sorry I was rambling. But, I have to agree with Dave to an extent about making the magic items have meaning, but depending on the enemies the characters are facing is whether or not I divulge magic items to them, which seems to work for me. Good Topic and discussion guys!...PS I gotta agree with Scott, about how hard it is to hold a game together and find players. With me there is three game stores nearby, but two of them have a scares or nonexistence presence of gamers who play RPGs.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

It's a jungle out there. That is one of the reasons why nerdarchy exists to help spread the word of rpgs. - Nerdarchist Dave

@narvisblack-wraith1186

9 жыл бұрын

+Nerdarchy And the begger king.

Low magic always. I prefer the settings like Warhammer (II edition RPG) where magic is powerfull, rare and means something. High-level magic setting are... quite boring imho.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Welcome to Team Dave. - Nerdarchist Dave

11:07 is the exact reason why I do high magic. Doing a campaign with few magic items can be fun in a makes-the-item-special sort of the way, but it isn't so great if one of five people has something great and everyone is just waiting to get theirs. I definitely lean to the final fantasy side of things with a steady stream of good stuff and everyone gets to be a super hero. Also, if everyone gets a good magic item regularly the encounters can get really crazy without being impossible. But you know everyone is different and if every campaign were run that way it would be boring. There is fun in playing a campaign of gods and then playing a campaign of more regular adventurers.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

+Doug Why not just play a super hero game? I'd recommend mutants and Masterminds from Green Ronin. -Nerdarchist Dave

I go for a more middle of the road style. Some magic stuff can be commissioned at special places, though most magic items, at least anything above +, are rewards. My players are never famished from lack of magic stuff but they aren't swimming in it either. Also: Like Carlos I'm a closet nerd. The social stigma of gaming is insane among "normal" people, and where I live nerds are few and difficult to find.

In our Pathfinder game we play a very low magic campaign, starting characters get 1k per level( for starting money for buying magic items and equipment. My character just hit level 9 and his magic items are a +2 flaming rapier and a ring that can cast dancing lights and faerie fire 1/day each(only magic item that not taken when we traded all our magic items for teleportation out of the underground lake cavern in running battle with kuo-toan's). All the characters that participated in that adventure do however have over 650k in gold each. We are allowed to buy clerical potions, scrolls and wands, but arcane magic is rare and controlled so it is very hard to find. That group has had at least 5 players and has had up to 9 players, but then we have a large gaming community. Most of the dm's i had, have run low to mid magic campaigns, and have rarely had a problem having players. The local area has a RPG yahoo group, and 3 Meetup groups that are RPG related. The Pathfinder group i'm in has been playing at a local comic store and has gotten a couple of people to join the game. I've played in very low to high magic campaigns and have learned that the lower the magic, the more you need to think "creatively" at problem solving. I am the kind of guy that causes dm's trouble because i'm a readaholic with an over active imagination that will use the leg from the corpse of a hobgoblin to probe the floor for pits and tripwires when the party is stuck in a dungeon without equipment.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

+shallendor My friend I think you have a much different opinion of low magic than I do :) -Nerdarchist Dave

Great video as usually guys. I'm in the low magic park, but I am running a "high magic" setting. A couple points to counter the might magic argument though: There isn't a$150 buy in any more WotC has tons of free material anymore. You don't have to 100% change what you want to play just to find players, look online find people who are interested in what you bring to the table and if worse case scenario you play an online game. Saying D&D needs to be a video game is the same as saying a book needs to be a movie they share some of the same aspects, but they aren't the same medium and have different points to offer.

@seandarbe4792

9 жыл бұрын

I am mid to high magic. low magic just doesn't work in an environmental conditions that are written for a magic hiding low magical modersesetting. modern setting

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Great points and I'm not just saying that because you seem to fall Team Dave. - Nerdarchist Dave

In my town it's near impossible to get more to our table, we started with 7 now we are down to 2-4 available for a session. Also high magic is fine if the group is fine with it, I've seen many groups with one caster the rest martial just being completely overshadowed and heard often "why are we even here?" then everyone has equal access to magic and get those fell good moments (but not as often as the caster will since items usually have a limit, so casters will have those "aww tired already?" 😏 moments lol).

Many many cities only have 1 game shop. My area only has 1 and it's usually pretty dead in there. I've always been in and DMed low magic games but I do agree that high magic has its place in 2015, especially with the younger generation.

@NathanRiggins

9 жыл бұрын

+Shawn Williams I think that if the dm isn't advancing something with the character be it level, treasure, story arc rp, etc... then the player will notice that nothing is happening with their character.

I handle my current campaign as relatively low magic, particularly when it comes to magic items because in my campaign world all magic requires conscious willpower, thus a magic item either draws on the willpower of the caster (utilizing spells slots) or requires some sort of consciousness to be imbued within it. Simple magical items can be powered by wisps (which are basically just the psychic remnants of souls), these can be infused into an item to allow it to produce very basic and limited effects. However the most truly powerful items require a true and living soul to power it. Which means either finding a willing soul or trapping an unwilling one. My players are not yet anywhere near getting a magical item but I hope that this system will really engage them with the construction of their items. Outside of making them themselves, there is a market for magical items but a very limited one, only the major metropolises of the world will have mages powerful and skilled enough to craft magical weapons, and they don't sell them in a simple shop but rather auction them off either from their guild halls or as highfalutin public events.

I've played 3.5 for a while, with a lot of magic items, since you couldn't really get that far without them. When playing second edition I took a more low magic approach. For 5e I'm going back to low/medium magic, were all magic items are unique, with a backstory. I love the tables in the 5e DMG with quirks and story tips for magic items. The only place that will have some magic items for sale would be extraplanar locations, like Sigil.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

it looks like we are on the same page when it comes to magic items so I'm gonna put you on team Dave. - Nerdarchist Dave

I tend to like low magic, low fantasy. The only place where it's a problem is even low level undead require a magic weapon to fight effectively. Offer a cold iron or silver weapon alternative with no inherent magic, but useful against these creatures.

I run a high magic setting for three reasons. 1 Come on everyone wants these epic weapons, and to be able to fight dragons and other things like that. 2, Replacements, if a party member croaks and the party doesn't want to bring him back to life for what ever reason. There is plenty of other adventurers who can fill his spot. (I was in a low magic setting were essentially we were the only humans of really any true levels of power. At 10th level, and when my character died I came back in with a new 10th level and they were like why is this guy so powerful?) 3 So that way even low level enemies like Orcs can be powerful and dangerous threats. You give an Orc a powerful weapon, levels in barbarian, and or fighter, as well as some beast armor and he's going to wreck face.

As long as it's balanced and matches story it can be either way. Just make sure to tell your players ahead of time. Magic items can work for the enemy's too, "Oh it's just a goblin with an axe" *17 damage.* "Well I feel silly. I'm down, good luck guys"

I prefer playing in a low magic campaign, I'm trying to run mine in a more medium area because my players like higher magic. I do not do High magic because it bores the living snot out of me as both a GM and a player.

I only have 2 stores within 60 miles. And I live on the (south) east coast. But either approach works. My last group had to drive close to 60 miles just to get together. But, man, was it worth it!

the way i run it is kinda of an iniana jones treasure style for magic items... yes there is magic items but they are at the end of the dungeon and is heavly guarded

I prefer a middle of the road for 5e. Back in 3.5 I was a High Magic DM and my players grew tired of my games quickly, I had to settle with one shot dungeons. But since watching your videos, scaling back the loot and using a risk vs reward style game, I've had some players ask "When is the next game?" Feels good. One of my players did have a clever idea for the magic item hoard he had collected once...he commissioned his own Adventurer's Guild. He would take lesser jobs and recruit adventurers to do them and pay in either silver/gold or gear...He did this as a way to recruit the best cohorts for other PCs with the Leadership feat...clever bastard.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Awesome to hear we are able to impact your game in a positive way. - Nerdarchist Dave

An idea that seems to often be overlooked, is that what is easily gained can also be easily lost. An excellent example of this is the stories of Jack Vance who is arguably the greatest influence on DnD. His Cugel, for example loses virtually everything that he gains sooner or later. Usually sooner. Another example is the story of Dhrun in the Lyonesse books. He is given 3 powerful magic items by the Fairies who raised him. Its been a LONG time since I read any of these books, but if memory serves, it was a sword of dancing, a purse with a single gold piece that returned when you tap it, and a cloth that when spread out produced a meal. He lost them all in a short time, but they had served their purpose. when magic items get out of control they can be lost stolen or broken. In a high magic world this should probably happen regularly. Anyone who witnesses such a thing in use should want to steal it. Another thing that seems to be too often overlooked is not only the weight but the bulk of carrying numerous items. How well can you really fight while carrying a half cubic metre pack on your back? how much of that is taken up by food, cook pots, bedroll, etc. Go on a multi day hike sometime and decide for your self how much you wish you had left behind.

High magic is okay if it reflects on the world as well. People with magic ovens and refrigerators, construct servants, flying vehicles, planar trade, magic schooling for everyone, hiring wizards to find your keys, police forces with magic missile wands and hold person wands, etc. Problem with it is that you could just go and play some scifi setting or starwars or something.

On the topic at the end of the video, for exemple here in Quebec, we have like 1 shop that sells dnd things, and people aren't REALLY interested in trying out dnd because of videogames and everything. It's hard.

I think the difference between high magic and low magic is like the difference between the Darth Vader and Obi Wan Kenobi's duels in Star Wars III and IV. One is flashy and has lots of lasers; the other actually has an emotional impact. To give an in-game contrast. If a character has a magical sword in a high-magic world then when he pulls it out - nobody gives a crap. But if a character pulls out that glowing sword in a low-magic world, every NPC gasps. So in a weird way I think low magic games are actually more magical; because if a magic item can be bought in B&Q then to me it's just a tool. P.s. speaking of barrier to entry - this is why runequest should be more popular :P

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

I've never checked rune quest perhaps some day. You seem to clearly be on Team Dave. - Nerdarchist Dave

@DayofAwesomeness

9 жыл бұрын

I am. To me high magic is like giving yoda a lightsaber: it misses the point. (with regards to runequest, they released the essentials as a free pdf online; hence no barrier to entry :) )

Scott, Scott, Scott!

I prefer low-to-medium magic personally. I'm more interested in story, character development, and roleplay than playing the stat game - I could just boot my PC for that. Having a few magic items to spice things up though is really nice. And as a GM I like throwing the occasional rare-but-not-directly-useful items at the players.

The barrier to market argument falls short in that characters gain levels and get rewards or challenges beyond items. Being a dragonborn Paladin and saving the day in heroic fashion is the reward, not the treasure trove.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Yea I prefer story based rewards to loot based. - Nerdarchist Dave

scale of 1d10, i run a high magic campaign 8 or 9, but i beef up the mobs 6 or 7, and lower the available healing 3 or 4, this seems to help balance and lets everyone feel powerful yet vulnerable simultaneously....... though it could easily be argued that the game is already balanced and following the treasure guidelines works just fine for this goal (( i run 3.5 games only/still))

For D&D I always go high magic. There are just so many systems that do low - no magic better than D&D does.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Cool thanks for weighing in even if you are on Scott's side. - Nerdarchist Dave

If we are talking preferences I'd personally err on the side of low-mid magic. However, I think the game also needs to be tailored to the players' expectations. If you play with people that EXPECT high magic and then get low magic, this might hurt the game for them (same thing if the DM makes a high magic game and people expect low magic). Managing players-DM expectations BEFORE the game starts I think is really important.

Minnesota boy here, found a table, it's becoming chuckle fuck high magic (a dozen magic items and we're level 2). I wish I had a low magic game with serious role players.

just began playing D&D and jumped into being a gm I love it (although players are difficult to organise) but I prefer mixing the two and having it as a build up to the really high fantasy stuff, that way I think the player appreciates what they have more and it's not just (meh I'll pick up another 10,000 gold in 5 minutes no big deal)

Had no idea you guys were on the east coast. Thats awesome. What state?

"Carlos had cool shoes and a hot girlfriend, he had *no* business playing D&D" Oh my god I rolled! LOL

Each of the three schools of thought are decent for what they are. If the GM can present an interesting story, the level of magic is not relevant except to the mechanic within the framework. Magic items should be to available to enhance the experience and promote the story. High magic, as described by Scott, makes magic worthless to the story and equates basically to level jumping to the end and grinding bosses. Of what lasting value is the memory of killing just another epic boss when you have all the magic to do so in your bag of tricks. - great for one-shot games - Low magic has the virtue of allowing characters an edge through the possession of items that will tip the scales of success into their favor. Each item would have a lore attached to it which could lead to more adventures for the players, making them the center of the story by virtue of possessing such rate treasures. - great for long running, epic adventures - The middle road makes magic more utilitarian, just another tool to augment the skills of the character. It allows players to fill in some of the gaps they may feel the collective class, race, background combinations of the party have taken. Not enough magic to simply replace the Cleric or Mage (and not making them worthless as in the high magic option) but enough to enhance these niche professions. A few items may have associated lore, those that do are often plot devices and story driven pieces of the campaign world. The middle road allows for the best of both worlds with the least amount of damage to a decent story.

I find with 5e I am able to go back to a type of game where magic items are rare and exciting. In Pathfinder, I almost feel forced to give out mountains of loot so the players aren't 'undergeared' for the inevitable fight against some of the crazy monsters. Getting magic items is less exciting, unless the players find THE RIGHT one. The games were designed differently so I play them more as they were designed.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

That is one of the things I really like about 5e it's design accommodates multiple styles of play. - Nerdarchist Dave

I'll give out a high level magical item right off the get go, but you can be damn sure it's cursed.

When talking about a barrier of entry in terms of book costs (and dices, and perhaps the set pieces), I would defend to the death freeware fan-created games like the Mass Effect universe d20-based system which is a good quality free RPG. These things make for great entry point for new players, and as an example the Mass Effect universe is mostly very familiar and has a high fan base from the video games of which this tabletop version was brought up from. I might have poked you guys about that one, but that particular note about the cost-barrier made me realize just how good these games are for introducing people into pen-and-paper, Because I believe 5th ed. PHB alone around here in Finland sits around 55€ mark with shipping and added value tax fees (Roughly 60$ or so). Also, as a player and perhaps some day a GM, I'm in the camp of Dave. I really like the magic to be meaningful and impacting; Each magic item needs to be a story in and on itself. And as added bonus you actually get to have meaning to weapons crafted from exotic materials like Living Wood, Ironwood, Cold Iron, Adamantium and Mithril. Keep it up, you've hooked this poor sod to your videos well and truly! Cheers Aleksi Heikkilä

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kind words. Thanks for giving us the low down on Finland as well as your insights video/tabletop games. - Nerdarchist Dave

@Jinballify

9 жыл бұрын

+Nerdarchy You are very welcome :) Hope I don't come across as too crass with my commentary, I do tend to have the habit of engaging in words before thinking. I tend to feel as passionate about Tabletop RPG culture as you are, even if somewhat newbie in the scene and hope to give my two cents into the staying power of the culture and the hopes of keeping it growing. Thank you again, and know that you keep being inspirational :) - Aleksi Heikkilä.

I find a good mix of having a lot of magic items but having in game lore of most NPCs being discriminatory of magic items or even people. Makes having a hoard of stuff the talk of cities if you have enough, and sending NPCs to player hoards is fun, dont even have the NPCs all fight literally play them like a player wanting to stealth and run with stuff if you really want to take it haha. Edit : also, team magic items! woo

About a year ago, I wanted to get into D&D. The fact that there was so much freedom that you could never get in a hard-coded video game was very appealing. I ordered the players handbook and looked for a game. The first time I ever played D&D was in a no magic setting. It was really boring and akward and I left after 4 sessions of doing pretty much nothing. There was 4 players, plus the DM. 2 players didn't talk at all except to fight, and the DM wasn't very descriptive of anything... I still have no idea what he wanted us to do. I tried really hard to play and talk to the players and NPC's, but it was just so shit. I haven't played D&D since. To be fair i'm an introvert and this was an online game. I don't have friends in real life, let alone ones that want to play table top games.

Coming back to this video years later, I had a sobering experience: my group was playing a Pathfinder Adventure Path, and we found a +3 Vorpal Scimitar. My response? "Huh, sweet." No exclamation mark, just a casual 'huh.' God damn this group has ruined me for magic items XD

If the average PC in the party has a +1/+1 weapon (appx 15% to 25% more hits) then for a 4 character party, you added the power of another character in combat. If you gave your spellcaster a ring of spell storing 2 1st level and 1 2nd level, you added the power of another 3rd level spellcaster. So... count the party as having those extra people when figuring the encounter to throw at them. Players: Be careful what you ask for.. you might get it.

'your campaign should be high magic', 'your campaign should be low magic', 'your campaign should be somewhere in between' ...My campaign should be whatever is appropriate for my campaign. The very fact that there's a discussion to be had in the first place undermines the very idea that there could be one right answer appropriate to every situation.

I like the conversation. I good point was Eberron is fun and successful, but the video game comparison was silly. Back in the 70's 80's Monte Haul games were a real problem. Another problem is that DnD doesnt have much to do to expend gold on. Gary Gygax intended players to have castles and followers to create expenses, but players seldom gravitated that way. So I believe wealth and magic items should be rare-ish, and potions and scrolls more common. I don't give out +1 swords I give out original items instead. a 5th level might have one item , and a couple potions.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Same here our tastes are very similar. While a silly argument he still makes some valid points. - Nerdarchist Dave

I always go for balance. So in a low magic game you need to make sure the monsters are low magic as well. Think realistically, 1 ancient red dragon becomes the worlds king if nobody in the world has a weapon that can damage it, or armor that imbues immunity to dragon fire. That dragon will make any being he runs into either a slave or lunch. It also would take him no time at all to hear about the new group of adventurers and pounce on them before they can get strong enough to possibly be a threat. Good luck finding a wizard on that world to teach anyone magic, same for clerics. So as far as low magic goes then you get limited to larger and larger groups of mundane orcs and such for folks to fight and maybe one or two demons and dragons running around arguing with each other and keeping each other distracted from the "little mortals." As long as you remember anything the players are capable of the "special" bad guys can do too you will have a good fun game imho.

Gotta say Scott is right in this one friends. Not a fan of the high magic games but Scott repping them well.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Yea we greatly enjoyed doing this video with him. Scott's an awesome guy. - Nerdarchist Dave

I have four times more magic items (in gold) than I should in 4e. I hit that point. Love 5e where all you get makes sense, like Cloak of Elvenkind cause Frodo goes through super friendly elf infested place.

Gamists will play games, narrativists will play stories, simulationists will play simulations. Magic items can be just tools in your toolbox or they can also be roleplaying hooks; but you can't get people to come to your table by just bribing them with magic items. People come to your table because of what they take from it, and they can't take that +1 enchantment or that daily power home with them. What matters is the fun that magic item facilitates, however you use it.

Ha. That shirt. Gonna go order one right now.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Cool we appreciate the support plus we will be putting out more non nerdarchy specific merch. - Nerdarchist Dave

Hey Nerdarchy, I have a request for you. I am a DM of a party of 2 rogues and 1 sorcerer. the rogues have gained the favour of an owner of an " Establishment of Fine Taste", and are using it as a base of operations for their roguish deeds. my question is how would you have set up for the rogues to do these deeds and also move through the main storyline?

great episode guys. i think im around the middle ground though the idea of high magic is super appeling. with games like pathfinder though the difficulty scales with magic gear. my last game ended with a tpk against the big bad boss monster swinging for 30 plus and we still had level 1 gear. nobody had fun and low magic was the problem. i have never played in a high magic game so i dont know first hand the issues of high magic.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

all variations can and do work and can be very fun. It all comes down to the players and DM. - Nerdarchist Dave

While i'm totally on Daves side... i'm also leaning towards teds side as well. i like the idea of medium level magic items but low enough to make them meaningful in every way. but as a DM you have to make that step towards the players to make them meaningful. Scotts idea of a High magic level campaign falls equally of a hack and slash game and just sitting there and rolling dice but thats just my opinion. I highly respect scott and i also think you guys should have him on the show more often!

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

We totally love having him on. His gaming style is very unique and he tells great stories. - Nerdarchist Dave

I always understood the difference between high and low magic isn't magic availability, but the power level of magic. I prefer using higher magic campaigns, but not massively available magic.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

I agree with the same. In this instance we are referring to the availability of it. Specifically via magic items. - Nerdarchist Dave

I look at it like a video game, high magic games where you have really good items easily available is like playing gta using the cheats, it's great fun but if you're mowing through loads of cops with a rocket launcher but this might get stale quickly, the dm will have to put more effort in the encounters to keep it exciting and fresh, in games with low magic it's like playing a game on hard mode, where you have no magical weapons as crutches, you're fights are going to be hard, it makes that game kind of gruelling but in a good way, because every victory feels that bit better for being challenging

@NathanRiggins

9 жыл бұрын

+William Burke If the party has magic items that make them feel unstoppable the items are a bit too strong for the campaign. To keep the highmagic the dm can just alter a normal lvl X encounter to be a bit tougher

@internetuser969

9 жыл бұрын

true, I just mean even having the items makes you feel safer, whereas not having any its like ok have to make to with what I have

Absolutely low magic. Period. Treasure and magic items are rewards to players. It's not a reward when it's expected. Magic spells in the game take the place of many magic items. Spells like Magic Stone, Magic Weapon, Shillelagh, Alter Self, and effects like the War Priest's Divine Strike or a Paladin's Divine Smite, Divine Weapon, several Smite spells....all make multiple magical weapons unnecessary. Let's look at what classes have no access to spells without a feat or multi-classing: Barbarian. Done. All other classes have an Eldritch/Arcane/Elemental... Now, let's address Scott's concerns about "who out there is in a campaign where you have too many magic items". I am. I'm in a campaign right now where three magic items were placed in my hands for free at third level. It made their possession anti-clamactic and unnecessary. Without earning an item by a heroic deed, it felt cheap. As a DM myself, I want my players to have that spark in their eye when they discover that special item. And furthermore, it creates a slippery slope of entitlement. There's enough "entitlement" out there now without adding to that. With too many special items, you create a power escalation that the DM has to address with harder challenges or it's a walkthrough. If you create moments where the players earn their way, then you build better memories. Second, I would like to address the "MMO/killed a rat and got loot/how do you compete?" Easy. Better storytelling. Engage your players and you will do something that online games never will do: create positive one-on-one interactions that have no chance on online "trolls" ruining the moment. My 12 year old daughter has been brought to tears by trolls when playing Minecraft for fuck's sake. She deserves better than that. So when I DM her, there's interaction without being judged by some loser in his mom's basement. The other players around the table are also engaged, and it builds a social environment without the negative aspects, while generating the thrill of adventure. That's what the game is about. THAT'S how you compete. You should NOT have to buy your players' loyalty with loot. You earn it with entertainment. If they demand loot to stay at your table, tell them that there's three knobs on a door - one on each side and one holding it - feel free to prove it. You don't want them at your table. If a character is "destined" to achieve greatness, they do it through heroics and not the shiny object they have in their hand. This is not Lord of The Rings where *an* item ends the campaign, but again, that was ONE item that mattered. The rest were handy, but not necessary. The "barrier to market" is two free to download PDFs and a set of dice. That's it. The rest is imagination and creativity. Trust me, if you want to find the stats on a creature or item that you don't have, try Google. You'll be amazed at what you find. Furthermore, there are portals to this world like d20.net and such. Again, engaging the players should have less to do with what you give the characters, and more to do with creating positive experiences with the people around the table. Thos positive experiences should hinge on exciting and fun moments, not a +3 Beatstick of Rat Whomping.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

+Mike Gould Well said my friend. -Nerdarchist Dave

@MindFeather

8 жыл бұрын

+Mike Gould the story you tell here about your daughter really gets to me. more power to you, man ... (uh, but not magical power). i mean really, jokes aside, i'm looking forward to the day when my daughter might be interested in this game, in this kind of story-telling. inspiring piece here. as you say this is what its about. totally agree. (and "Beatstick of Rat Whomping" is going into my next game.)

@azlath

7 жыл бұрын

Kudos man! Great comment.

I could only see Magic shops in Sigil, City of Brass etc. Your local wizard is not going to have a magic shop boutique, magic items that are being sold need to make sense. I could see a big city maybe have a small magic item store where there is maybe 3-5 items tops.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

I agree. That would be far more interesting with those back drops. - Nerdarchist Dave

I think that if the DM is scaling the "danger" with the amount of Magic s/he is giving out to players, then the world should FEEL every bit as perilous as a Low-Fantasy World.

For me I would say mid magic is my kind of game. Because I think a loot horde with magic items that are just what the players want or ask for is to unrealistic. And if the players are asking the DM for there magic item it feels (to me) as if the DM is a loot dispenser is stead of the person bring the group together. Also if the player does not get what they want there should be able to quickly get it (or upgrade it) in a non game braking way. I think that makes it easier for the DM that way to. But if you start flooding the players with items. They stop being rewards. There are plenty of computer game where I stop look at what's there and hit the loot all button. But different strokes for different folks and all that. :)

I'm on the high magic side and my opinion on shops is that they sell generic magic items and perhaps some utility ones. so they'll have your standard +2 longsword or a bag of holding...but thats not the ONLY type of magic item. there are some so powerful and legendary that there is only a handful (or even 1) of them in the entire world. you get those through quests. THOSE are the ones that should "mean something". I shouldn't give a rats ass about a generic +1 dagger unless there is something personal behind it, like my brother gave it to me before he died. The items with elemental properties or cast spells or some other really cool effect. THOSE are rare and THOSE are special. not everything magic needs to be something. especially when, out of character, we can see this book filled with much more interesting items. And lastly, i'm here for fantasy. If I wanted to be in a mundane world, I wouldn't be a bird headed draconic sorcerer. I can get a standard low/no magic game out of some random hack n slash vieogame.

What are your thoughts on bleeding magic from one item to a held item? As an example, if I have a Paladin with the Noble background. I give my character the family sword. Well, I can kill my family off and the sword and the legacy of what happened to my family will be the motivation for some of my actions, the reactions of NPCs in various areas, and an excellent hook for the DM to set me up for various adventures or tasks. As an heirloom piece, the sword would probably be of masterwork quality. At first level, a masterwork sword isn't going to make me overpowered. However, as I adventure and gain skill, I could have a mage bleed the magic from different items to enchant my sword with either pluses, elements, whatever the DM thinks won't break the game but is in character.

Magic level is fairly subjective, but im pretty standard faerun level magic.

I am definitely old school. I tend towards lower magic but what I do give to my players has meaning. There are no magic shops in my games. The only magic items you can buy are potions and scrolls. Magic items were in the PHB in 4e? Well, there is another reason why I do not care for that edition of the game. LOL

I think a like high magic the best, but I only give out potions crazily and a limit my weapon magic items.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Cool another vote for high magic. We love getting the communities input. - Nerdarchist Dave

You know, I honestly don't think I've ever been part of a real high magic game. But then again I rarely play greedy characters, so even in settings with plenty of magic I'm usually the guy who gets the least gold or magic items (which I don't really mind). I wanted to say that I prefer lower magic settings, but I guess I can't really form a proper opinion because of my lack of experience with the opposite.

I think that high magic or low magic campaigns don't necessarily have to be about the items. a High magic could easily focus on the creatures or your surrounding. Like a world where cities float in the sky, and portals to many planes exist. Low magic simply be more medieval, with plagues and superstition be the main focus.

@Nerdarchy

9 жыл бұрын

Very true, but for this discussion we were kind of fixated on the magic item side of things. - Nerdarchist Dave

Middle magic. Pretty much everyone can use it, but it's mostly basic job related stuff and just there as flavour instead of whatever we'd use in modern day to do the same things. Players can't learn most magic as they don't have regular jobs that would let them gain those skills. Magic items are abundant and can be bought at shops, but are mostly rather minor. +1, +2 etc items don't exist, they're too boring. A magic sword might just have the ability to materialise its blade whenever you want it to add long as you're holding it, and is normally just a hilt and guard. Another magic weapon might be one that changes size to suit it's user and despite being very heavy feels light to whoever is wielding it. A magic quiver for a bow might just have an infinitely replenishing supply of arrows. A non-weapon magic item might be a pair of sunglasses suitable for a drow.

Magic Item shop? Only three words are needed: Gilmore's Glorious Goods