First, there are no short starters like we use today found in surviving shooting bags. The ball and patch had to be of a size that could be thumb started into the bore. The short starter and the tight fitting patch and ball comes to us from the target shooters of the late 1800s. A soft lead ball will "bump up" to fill the bore when 15,000 pounds of pressure hit the back of the ball in the blink of an eye, the back of the ball flattens out and the ball fills the bore for reasonably accurate shooting. In an emergency the ball could be fired without a patch. A dirty bore will keep the ball down on the powder. Sometimes they bumped the stock to settle the ball on the powder.

@thedeerskindiary

6 күн бұрын

I am sure that 15000 PSI can deform the ball quickly. I wish we could see a slow motion video of it.

@johnndavis7647

6 күн бұрын

@@thedeerskindiary The Dixie Gun Works catalog discusses this in the information section in the back of the book. Good reading.

New subscriber getting back into Black powder after 55 yrs ty brother god bless you

The work you are doing with this channel is much needed and much appreciated.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Thank you. I will continue to try!

Don't forget about the impacts of fouling reducing barrel diameter. Much tougher to force a ball down a rifle vs musket barrel as the fouling increases.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

For me that happens after 4 rounds or so.

In the book "Get the Lead Out" which covers shot pouches and bags from the time period, several original bags were found with more than one size ball or shot in them. I think it could also be a throw back to the days of the French & Indian War when you had some troops like Rogers Rangers who would carry their lead roundballs loose, but also had smaller shot size on hand for close up shooting. In combat like they were used to where the ranges were practically point blank out to 50 yards, they were firing up close in the brush or timber where your ranges even today aren't much past 50-60 yards.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

I’ll have to check out those references also.

I was worried I'd be shorted, but you rammed it home ;-) Good shooting. I don't think I've tried an unpatched ball as small relative to bore size as those two you shot, but experimenting with .530, .525, and .520 out of a .54 have given acceptable accuracy without a patch - at least as good as shooting a bare ball out of smoothbores for me with similar ball to bore fit. My take away is that you could really rely on a single mold for your rifle and trim your emergency roundballs by sight, without needing to worry too much about accuracy within closing distance ranges. The fact that you can reliably hit a mansized target within that distance with a .440 ball really shows there is a very forgiving range of for your backup ammo.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

That’s what I was so surprised at also. Now I have zero excuses for missing deer.

Your amazing research is only exceeded by your ability to both explain and demonstrate. Thanks again for a wonderful and shall I say, very useful episode!

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Well thanks but I wish had a quarter of your varied talents. It’s nice to be in a group of friends where I have to try my hardest to be mediocre.

@TheWoodlandEscape

Ай бұрын

@@thedeerskindiary You my friend are too modest. Seriously, your my favorite KZread Chanel.

Thanks for the video. This is great topic to discuss. These things happened when under combat conditions where speed was more important than accuracy. Nobody does videos replicating the way frontiersmen had to fight in a hurry. Your video helped open the topic a little more.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Thank you. That was the hope.

@OhmSteader

Ай бұрын

I have read accounts of rifles found with multiple loads in them due to the first not firing and the soldier being in panic mode just kept loading. Very sad situation.

Informative channel you've built sir. I particularly appreciate the quotations from period literature that establish the context for your experiments and demonstrations!

@thedeerskindiary

15 күн бұрын

Many thanks! I try to make sure I use their words to tell the story whenever possible.

I saw once how someone explained that during a fight in the woods the first shot was a patch ball in a flintlockrifle . The second was a loose ball . This was wrote in a diary from a colonial officer . Said there was no time for second shot with a patch .

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Makes sense according to this. I will have to try and dig that up.

FANTASTIC documentation Anthony. Just stellar. Thank you for this.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Thank you in return for the compliment!

Most excellent! I really appreciate you highlighting more "practical" flintlock shooting as would have been done in the time period. Under duress they would certainly not be loaded perfectly and not every shot needed to be a hole-driller at 200 yards. In combat speed is the name of the game. Thank you for this video!

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Thank you! That was the hope. I feel like we have it so good now and they were just trying to survive most times.

Never heard of carrying two different size balls. Questions, First the purpose is like speed loading in a emergency. So, not that you have answered your accuracy question for you yourself, how about the speed. What is the time difference to load and shoot multiple rounds of the different sizes? Also, you said you were shooting a .530 in your .50 caliber.... but what were the sizes in the other two calibers? Also, how would your accuracy and speed change if you used the same size balls, but NOT patching. So not two size balls, just no patching. Very interesting hearing the quotes you used. Nice work.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

The loading times were nearly cut in half if not more. The issue is that if you depress Your muzzle any more than level your bullet falls out! I shoot a .530 in a .54 caliber barrel. I have not really ever shot without the patch but you do still have to ram the ball home. It would help but not by a lot.

Thanks for a great and historical experiment, very interesting indeed! And it gives us just a little of what our Ancestors went through that enable us have Freedom today and why it’s very important for We The People to follow our Great Constitution. Indeed, we stand on the Iron Clad Shoulders of our Ancestors! Thanks Again and Many Blessings and what a fine gun you have! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Thank you sir for the kind words.

That was a smart experiment, informed by history and true to it. You are a good marksman - even with the undersized projectiles. Thank you for the great content

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

I appreciate it very much.

You're setting a high bar there brother trying to imitate Lou Wetzel😮 great video keep them coming

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

No comparison there. I’m just a guy with a flintlock and a camera!

@lusolad

Ай бұрын

Probably wanna set some limits on how much to imitate Mr Wetzel.....

I think the issue with lead is when it is oxidized white powder on the surface, similar to whats in paint. Mom who was one of the most intelligent people on the planet and went on to work on jet engines said she and her brothers used to chew on lead cause it was soft and there wasn't chewing gum at the time. I know many folks bit lead sinkers to adhere them to fishing lines and I always kept 10 or 20 pellets in my mouth when hunting as a kid to have them on the ready. We thought it was perhaps one of those conspiracy things though I believe it is the lead oxide which is not a good thing. Shiny lead is fairly clean. I still would not recommend putting any lead in your mouth.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Great points. I also used to keep pellets in my mouth. It’s almost a right of passage lol. For work I have to be lead tested on occasion and without the boring details I didn’t want to give myself a ton of bureaucratic headaches either.

I learned something, thanks.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Glad to hear it!

Thanks for the look at this subject. Much appreciated!

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

You bet!

Excellent presentation of a very interesting and valuable topic!!

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Thank you!

Love your videos my friend.

@thedeerskindiary

19 күн бұрын

Thank you so very much

Priceless information , I enjoy all of your works . Merci’

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Many thanks!

Absolutely excellent video in all respects. Thank you.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Thank you for watching!

Wetzel, Kinton and Boone were well versed in the art of loading on the run. I'm sure they just put the ball in without a patch. Close range, yeah...

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

I think that the smaller ball size is the key to loading on the run. It’s the powder measuring and priming that are in question next.

@davidmcpherson9260

Ай бұрын

@thedeerskindiary in my 54, I shoot a .527 diameter ball, it does just drop in without a patch. I'll have to try it out with out the patch....cheers..

Thanks ,great video.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Glad you liked it!

Great video!

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Thank you!

What a intresting video! thank you.

@thedeerskindiary

29 күн бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Fun! In my .54 (colonial) Kibler, I use 70 grn swiss 3f, .53 ball, .015 patch with a bear oil/bees wax lube and a small tow wad. When I dont have time to swab the barrel, i go for the ball alone, sometimes the tow wad with it, depending if theres a fire risk (😂). Accuracy is crud, but expected. I like the comment on breeching the gun to clear a ball. Been showing up in my reading recently. How about a segment on "authentic" field cleaning your piece?

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

I think for that I would have to enlist the help of Simeon England but I would love to do it.

Another great video. This is the real-life application of "experimental archeology."

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Thank you

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

You're welcome

Men on the frontier sometimes had to use oiled deerskin for patches. That would require a smaller ball. Some rifles were made with extra deep rifling for leather patches. They would have two ball molds in their shooting bag for those rifles.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

That’s interesting. I have not encountered the two molds being carried yet and will have to look for it.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

That’s interesting. I have not encountered the two molds being carried yet and will have to look for it!

@johnndavis7647

Ай бұрын

@@thedeerskindiary I have a book showing 250 longrifles from collections. It shows two rifles that had extra deep rifling, about .015 deep, for leather patches and two molds in their shooting bags. One for leather patches and one for linen patches. There may have been more guns with extra deep rifling in the collections but these were the only ones that came with the bags and the two molds. Of course this is for rifles. When it comes to smooth-bores I doubt many had a mold for hunting balls, say one caliber under bore size and a second mold for battle that was two calibers under bore. They either bought whatever the trading post had to offer in cast balls or had a mold that came with the gun that was made by the gunsmith.

Black powder clogs so bad. I noticed that when I got started. I think the smaller was fired when the barrel was getting clogged. I would fire at 100 yds. Rifled. As I fired, it was harder to get the bullet down the barrel. My second was a bullet shaped, already greased. It dropped about 5 inches at 50 yds if I remember.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

For sure. Coming from modern guns it’s so different.

@outdoorlife5396

Ай бұрын

@@thedeerskindiary We were fooling around, talking trash about how screwed you were to have to reload. You had better be good at hand to hand and using a knife, tomahawk or a pistol as a club. I don't know what it is about the black powder rifles, but they have always been really cool to me. Love the videos

Good topic to discuss and experiment with. Try shooting unpatch 530 ball at 50 yds. You should have good enough accuracy at 50 yds . Thats what i have found in my rifle.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

I will do that. Thank you for the tip.

Good evening from Syracuse NY brother

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Hello! Hope you enjoy.

“Such charges” quote

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

I wrote it correctly but mis spoke when I stated it. As hard as I work at it sometimes I miss some things.

At a hundred yards one could hit an enemy head, at two hundred yards a torso for sure. At fifty yards an eight inch group means dead enemy.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

I’m still working on that 100 yards part

@jeffreyrobinson3555

Ай бұрын

You shouldn’t have any trouble getting a six inch group with your load at a hundred yards. I would venture a two inch unless your a half blind old grey beard like me.

I don't know how my pioneer family did it but me 3 shoots and it's ROADRUNNER TIME 🏃

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Ha ha I get it!

How about a couple of unpatched .530 round balls?

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

I wanted to try it out also but truthfully I was too excited about seeing what the others did.

An interesting discussion, but given that a patched ball is inherently undersized, it would seem that simply omitting the patch would do the trick. Also, there are various guys out there that have shown that a Brown Bess, with its notoriously undersized ball, can consistently hit a man sized target at 50 yards and even put a man at some hazard at 100 yards.

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Good points. I wanted to try it out myself for targets that were much closer like the Wetzel quote mentioned.

I keep thinking that for deer hunting this might be a good thing

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

It’s also a poor explanation for my misses lol.

Next time try multiple small balls

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Not a bad plan to try out.

This real life not movie

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

I try to bring it to life when I can!

Good evening from Israel mister. It seems there are a few glitches with the video. Nothing that makes it unwatchable, just a half second at a time of silence/garbled video. Will edit for timestamps

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

Okay thank you.

@tinycockjock1967

Ай бұрын

@@thedeerskindiary0:19 1:27 6:56 seem to be the three spots. Amazing video as always mister. Better quality than any other maker on the topic. All the best, stay safe!

@thedeerskindiary

Ай бұрын

@@tinycockjock1967 thanks. I am hoping it is an issue that will smooth out as the 4k part fully uploads to KZread. The original doesn’t have that issue. I appreciate you looking out!