No Turk has yet appeared to say that they spoke Turkish and that the Trojans were Turks ?? 😂

@wankawanka3053

10 күн бұрын

one appeared after you said this lol we sure have a lot of albanians claiming similar fantasies

@k.umquat8604

7 күн бұрын

That's considered a crazy conspiracy theory even in Turkey. We don't claim those people

@ninototo1

6 күн бұрын

​​@@wankawanka3053dont forget north macedonians

@Jessi_apo

6 күн бұрын

@@ninototo1 if you mean armagedonian

@thatisme3thatisme38

6 күн бұрын

​@@k.umquat8604"conspiracy theory"?? Why would it be "conspiracy "???

All really interesting hypotheses. I often thought of Troy as a very cosmopolitan city, perhaps with a Luwian-speaking majority but with a ruling family of Mycenaean Greek descent. Therefore my guess would be that it's a combination of Mycenaean Greek and Luwian, but I'm certainly not an expert on this subject. Great video, the language trees were very helpful!

@lamastu2156

11 күн бұрын

Luwians are one of the pre-Greek tribe who with years became Greeks. The other tribes was Minoans, Pelasgians and the majority the very first Indo-European tribes who the who Hellenic identity was built by their culture. Something similar to ancient Italian tribes before Romans

@spartanwarrior1

10 күн бұрын

the progenitor of the royal trojan house was Dardanos, a refugee from the peloponnese, to be precise from Arcadia. Hence, the "Greek" connection to the Troad region. There were Greek settlements along the Anatolian coastline.

@gregorynixon2945

9 күн бұрын

I said the same thing, above, and got no likes. Is it because I'm Canadian?

@lamastu2156

9 күн бұрын

@@gregorynixon2945 Come on, stop complaining. I gave you a like right now only because you are Canadian. We love Canada ❤️🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🍁🍁❤️🇨🇦🇨🇦 We only hate woke culture

@gregorynixon2945

9 күн бұрын

@@lamastu2156 🤩🤩🤩

This is easily one of the top 5 classical BC history channels. We gotta get this dude some subs and slay ignorance!

I wouldn't be surprised if Wilusa was a Luwian speaking city, at least the ruling elite. Now, if the common people were luwian speakers, and the ruling elite spoke mycenaean greek, that would be quite interesting, and not so far from reality.

@islammehmeov2334

8 күн бұрын

The ruling elite spoke HITTITE LANGUAGE 😊

@mercianthane2503

8 күн бұрын

@@islammehmeov2334 Nah, they spoke irish

@islammehmeov2334

8 күн бұрын

@@mercianthane2503 the problem is that Ireland didn't exist then

@mercianthane2503

8 күн бұрын

@@islammehmeov2334 NO! For real? :O

@islammehmeov2334

8 күн бұрын

@@mercianthane2503 yes and all of europe did exist

Being a trading city. Multiple languages would be needed.

@nezperce2767

10 күн бұрын

Who were the traders? Should be ship owners well off in arms

@bodnica

9 күн бұрын

​@@nezperce2767 Phoenicians were leaders in trade

@nezperce2767

9 күн бұрын

@@bodnica so? Traders normally through transactions make money buying and selling things not inventing 27 different theories on what was going on at that part of Mediterranean as we don't have much on them about the text of Greeks on them

That Homer implies there was no difficulty for the Greeks to speak with the trojans, b and yet he makes the point that when the local Trojan allies showed up, there was a cacophony of languages should be taken seriously.

@user-gs2wb2lp1v

10 күн бұрын

Graikos don’t understand Trojans nor Homer. They destroyed themself Hellenic roots and Homer language. Only Arvanitas people understand Homer and Trojans but Greece government punish them if they talk. Politic scrutiny

@user-ry6fg7xc9s

10 күн бұрын

Because the greeks were not greeks.

@kostashliopoulos9293

10 күн бұрын

​@@user-gs2wb2lp1vwhat a joke. I am Greek true descendant of the Homeric heroes, i have red both the Iliad and Odyssey as a child reading it in its ancient (greek) language. Arvanites are ethnically Greeks once bilingual, not a single one of them is self indetify as a non Greek. Never has been a law forbidding them to speak arvanitika nor has been any law, political or social movement that has oppressed them. If you do not believe me, ask them yourself, stop lying and badmouthing my homeland.

@gregorynixon2945

9 күн бұрын

Why?

@DivineHellas

9 күн бұрын

@@user-gs2wb2lp1v 🤡

The pre-Indo-European language in Troy was a Tyrsenian language. Although the Etruscans are nowadays considered a locally developed culture on the Italian Peninsula, this is also evidenced by genetic studies showing Y-DNA haplogroup subclades, primarily R1b, J2b, and G2a. Examining the paternal DNA of the samples from these studies reveals a predominantly Indo-European ancestry, connected with an Urnfield Culture (Indo-European) ancestry of the Etruscans. Additionally, most Northwestern Anatolians and people from nearby islands are primarily under J2a, J1, and G2a subclades in this region, as seen in the J2a heatmap. Another point to consider is that ancient Greek chroniclers attributed a Anatolian origin to the Etruscans. According to Herodotus, they came from the region of Lydia. Other Greek chroniclers regarded the Etruscans as Pelasgians originating from the Aegean. Since we can exclude, based on genetics, an Anatolian or Aegean origin for the native majority population, it is more likely that their language was introduced by a Pelasgian elite from the Aegean in the final phase of the Villanovan Culture. It is known that these so-called Pelasgians migrated as far as Canaan (Philistines) and Egypt (Peleset), significantly intermixing with the predominantly Semitic population and assimilating into it, yet retaining their identity. Considering that the Etruscans developed their own alphabet and adopted Mediterranean architecture, all this influence and rapid cultural development must have come from somewhere. The eastern influences came mainly during the early years of the Etruscan civilization, with the Etruscans adopting “orientalizing” artistic styles and other cultural influences (particularly from the Greeks), which might have been the basis for the “Asia Minor hypothesis” of later ancient authors. The main support for a Pelasgian origin of the Etruscan language is the Lemnos Stele. The only solution to the question of the origin of the Etruscan language could possibly be provided by the graves of early Etruscan aristocrats and their DNA. If these graves show a predominantly J2a, J1, and G2a presence with subclades from the Aegean, we might be on the right track. Thus, the question of the Trojan language, which was previously a Tyrsenian language replaced by Luwian, would also be resolved. In its final stage, it received a strong Mycenaean influence through the Mycenaean Greek elite who controlled the city of Wilusa.

@gregorynixon2945

2 күн бұрын

You make good points for a minority position. The Tyrhennians as the Hellenes called them or the Tarsenoi as they were also known apparently dwelt on Lemnos at the time of Homer's Trojan War. They were surely present at nearby Troy, even if they weren't a majority. Some woman whose name I can't recall wrote a book defending this position.

@pseudokanax2957

2 күн бұрын

⁠@@gregorynixon2945Bro no one can explain me that Etruscan is native to nowadays Italy. It’s possible for sure, like in the case of the Basque people where most of them are under R1b-DF27 (Celto-Iberian) subclades, meanwhile they still speaking a Paleo-European Language brought by long lost G2a EEF or I2 WHG populations, no one knows. But why Ancient people telling us that they are from the East and how they established their own Alphabet and Mediterranean influences Architecture in a short time.

@gregorynixon2945

Күн бұрын

@@pseudokanax2957 I got "bro'd".😁

Mycenaean Greek. The Troyan war was a civil war. The importan thing is that Troy and Frygia in Asia Minor were establised and colonised in prehistory form people from northen Greece where the Greek Macedonia is, and only Greek and their name in macedonia was Brygia, the people were called Bryges, the B changed to F according to the evolution of the language. They were GREEKS with THRACIAN origin. Sources: Herodotous and the Greek born in Cicely Diodorous the Cecillian. Diodorous at his time 1st century BC also wrote that the Greek toponyms in Troy and in Crete with the Minoan civilization were identical which could mean a lot about the connection between them.

@polha4966

3 күн бұрын

or maybe greek ethnogenesis happened in what is now pontus and from there they passed to mainland greece through macedonia

@g70ful

3 күн бұрын

@@polha4966 No, the Brygians or Frygians went to Asia Minor from the Greek macedonia by boats, looking for gold..they had their information. In the Greek Macedonia there was a lot of gold and still there is today. They wanted more, they wanted to rule... they wanted everything..... You have heard the story about king MIDAS (he was Frygian) who everything he touched, it became Gold, they found a lot of gold in Frygia, thats why they established Troy, bacause if you don't have a sea port to carry the gold where you want, there is no result......no civiliazation, no city states, no army, no defence, nothing, you are in danger.....Pontus does not belong in this story as far as i know. Before the Brygians or Frygians who if i remember well is one of the 10 Pelasgian tribes, which were Proto Greeks not Pre Greeks...Another Pelasgian tribe Called MINYES they went to Colhis, Georgia in the Black Sea today, this group of people is Known as the JASON AND ARGONAUTES, beacause in Colhis they had discovered a way to extract gold from the rivers using a sheep skin but it had a unick man performed trasformation in order to extract Gold . The strange thing is that they found in Colhis a Greek king, called AITIS they comunicated in this pelasgian early Greek, there was no knowledge in the so called Greece at that time that there were a few Greeks and a Greek king in Colhis...Eventually the stole one of those sheep skins and the daugter of the king Aitis, and came back to Greece..

@deniztark6242

2 күн бұрын

​@@polha4966not really, proto-greek is widely thought to have evolved at the mountanous region between modern day epirus and western macedonia around 2000 BC and this makes those regions the best contenders as the place where the greek ethnogenesis ocurred

@polha4966

2 күн бұрын

@@deniztark6242 look turk proto greek was evolved in caucasus as all european languages did. In an era you turks did not even exist as a nation. It s ridiculous that in all greek related videos there s a turk commenting writting unihostorical nonsenses. From the steppes north and south of caucasus the greeks passed through modern day romania to greece.

@polha4966

2 күн бұрын

​@@g70fulproto greek started as all european languages in the area north and south and around caucasus. Thus the proto greeks passed from caucasus to pontus and from there to greece where they first arrived in thrace and macedonia. Also pelasgians were not proto greeks they were pre greeks. The pelasgians did not spoke an indoeuropean language. Some of pelasgian words exist still in greek and have no indoeuropean root words such as thalassa, olynthos, zakynthos etc... minoans too were not greeks that s why we cant decipher their language. The ancient greeks were calling minoans as eteocretes aka pure cretans aka non greeks

Great video and work like always!

Man i just found out your channel and i was having a really bad day and heartbroken but this channel really made me happy. Great stuff mate ❤️❤️

Like say homer achaians and Trojan talk same language

@user-gs2wb2lp1v

10 күн бұрын

Homer language is not like Achaian but like Tsakonian of Sparta. This language is disappearing by pressure of Graikos or new Greece.

@gregorynixon2945

9 күн бұрын

I pay little heed to Homer's writing dealing with mythic memories 400 years later. Homer did not even remember the existence of the Hittite Empire! Homer, if he existed, was a poet, a teller of tales, combining those from all over. In his songs and tales, his heroes are going to have to speak the same language so they can be understood by his audiences, who always seem to have spoken a form of Greek.

@gregorynixon2945

9 күн бұрын

@@user-gs2wb2lp1v I see you like mythmaking yourself.

@sarp4919

9 күн бұрын

Troy and Greeks had same language and culture according to Homer.

@gregorynixon2945

9 күн бұрын

@@sarp4919 Homer is not a reliable historical source. He seems entirely unaware that Troy was surrounded on three sides by the vast Hittite Empire. He wrote or sang his epic poems for Greek (Hellenic) speakers and he wanted both sides of the war to have a voice, so he had to portray these 400-year-old warriors as all Greek.

I recently acquired a book, «The Troyan War» (in Spanish). it talks more about the city itself and its history, only occasionally refering to the possible language the Trojans spoke. the most notable mention of this was a seal found near the site, which contains a Hittite inscription, perhaps linking it politically to the Hittites, but not necessarily linguistically my favorite hypothesis is the one suggesting a non-Indoeuropean language being spoken there

@jfppp1

10 күн бұрын

This is what I found when I was trying to learn about the language the Trojans spoke. Everyone was interested in discussing whether Troy ever existed, the various levels of cities at the site, etc. The language? They had no interest in that.

@user-gs2wb2lp1v

7 күн бұрын

Illyrian, Dardanian and Hellenic languages are Successors of Hittite Language. So for sure Hittite is palaeuropian language

Well trojans were greeks , and so were achaeans too , this war was literally a civil war pretty much (like almost any war in the greek realm for example Athens vs sparta) which its believed to be mostly for the Influence and the trade in the whole Agean and black sea , since Trojans were growing rapidly as a power , while achaeans were already a power

@Thebattler86

2 күн бұрын

@@-BlackMamba- Trojans were most certainly not Greeks.

@-BlackMamba-

2 күн бұрын

@Thebattler86 they were it's origin is coming Arkadians , and at their time the whole area already also under Aeolians control (both of em are greek tribes) so it's either one of these 2 , also they were talking Greek , they were believing in Greek gods , and their culture was the same with Greeks and their lifestyle too which was Trade through sea , and overall close to the sea as people also their building/architecture type was greek and specifically it was aeolic I think , at any case way too many similarities with Greeks dont u think so ? All these facts alone give way more chances for Trojans to be Greeks rather being something else , and Hettites also saw Trojans as Greeks too

Well, as a historian i must say the mistake that contemporary translators did for Odyssey and Iliad: Homer never said that Greeks faught against Trojans. He wrote that Achaeans faught against Trojans who spoke the same Greek language . Achaeans are one of the 4 main Greek tribes. Ioneans were also one of the 4 main Greek tribes Dorians (spartans, macedonians, epirotans) and Aeoleans are the other 2. Homer was Ionean Greek from Miletos (western Anatolia) next to Troy. For Homer it was granted that Trojans were Ionean Greeks just like him, worshipping the same Greek gods, with the same Greek names and toponymy: Priam's paremts were these Greeks: Laomedon and Leucippe Priam's kids were these Ionean Greeks: Hector, Paris (called by Homer as Alexandros also), Cassandra, Helenos, Deiphobos, Laodice, Polyxeni, Polydoros, Polites, Antiphos, Hipponous Only Greeks have Greek words as their names and toponymies That's why there is not even one line in all Homer's rhapsodies stating that Trojans faught against Greeks but Achaeans against Trojans

@user-fm8zp9vp4q

11 күн бұрын

Plato says that the Greek names of the Trojans are constructed by Homer. Most ancient writers call the Trojans ``”Barbarians" and "Frygians". Philostratus says that the spirit of Hektor spoke a barbaric language. Homer says that anyone seeking civil war is a bastard without honor. So are all of his heroes if Trojans were Greeks. When the Kings of all Greece presented themselves as suitors for Helen no Trojan came to claim her… If the Trojan war was a civil war then there is no point to the Homeric Epic.

@Sofia-0001

11 күн бұрын

Trojans were Pelasgians, Pelasgians were no Achaeans and before being assimilated in hundreds of years the Achaeans were no Ionians, Aeolians, Aegeans.

@napalm-gr

11 күн бұрын

​​@@Sofia-0001 Pelasgians were the ancestors of the people of Greece in ancient times.

@-BlackMamba-

10 күн бұрын

​@user-fm8zp9vp4q ma guy if u believe that about the "Civil wars" then u must be really stupid , bcs in ancient Greece almost every war fought was a civil war and the greatest example of them is the Peloponnese war where it was Athens vs Sparta , Trojans were greeks , and specifically of Aeolian origin

@-BlackMamba-

10 күн бұрын

​@@Sofia-0001wrong , 1st of all pelasgians were Greeks, but Trojans weren't pelasgians , theh were of aoelian origin .

Hittite ritual texts were included also different languages. Scientists discovered new late bronze age languages in these texts as Palaic, Hattic, Luwian and Kalasma. Maybe futures newly found ritual texts could include Trojan Language. While Hittites religious ceremonies were happening vassal states representatives had to be ready there.

French scholar Gabriel Germain wrote in 'Homer' that Homeric writings were in a rhythm of language[meter] that is improper to Greek but encountered in Sanskrit. Orpheus the Thracian had many ideas seen in Sanatana Dharm[ Sanskrit terms for Hinduism] as discussed by Edwin Röhde in Psyche. Discovering the Vedas by Fritz Staal further elucidates the origin of Anatolians, Scythians and Thracians...

Few things to understand discussing the topic. Now we are living in time of standartized languages which we're standartized between xviii and xix century. So we have dictionaries, pronunciation guidelines, schools, universities, media, etc. When we say that German is the only language spoken in Germany we are missing the fact that there are Berlinisch, Bayerisch, Schwäbisch, Sächsisch, Frisian etc. And they are related (all germanic, more than that Low East Germanic) but always quite mutually intelegable. The same situation mostlikely took place in the ancient Aegean and Anatolian region. When we are talking about old dead languages they either have writting record as Hetite or not as one spoken in Troy. What we can ask ourselves about was it somewhere indoeuropean or rather pre-indoeuropean. And when and If we can make sense of the original language of EEF which was spoken in Anatolia before indoeuropean language we could continue on this topic.

@user-gs2wb2lp1v

9 күн бұрын

Sumerian is a language written with cuneiform. It is followed by Hittites and later we start with Illyrian language, Pellasgian and Hellenic. All of them are similar. But new Greece (Graikos) is different. Eg. they don’t understand Homer language.

@alexeysaphonov232

9 күн бұрын

@@user-gs2wb2lp1v well, sumerian has No known relativ languages. Hettite and illerian and Greek are branches of indoeuropean language family. Hope you aren't claming a relation between languages based on writing system. Because it is not working like this. E.g. English and Finnish both use latin letters being unrelated at least within the period 9-12k years we can more or less reconstruct. And both started using this letters a bit more than one thausand years ago. The same hettite cuneaform isn't the same as sumerian. And languages are totaly different.

@user-gs2wb2lp1v

7 күн бұрын

Dear those Languages you mentioned as Berlinish, Bayerish and cetera are dialects of Germanic languages.

@alexeysaphonov232

7 күн бұрын

@@user-gs2wb2lp1v yep and the Standard Hochdeutsch which is a standartised based, if I remember it correct, on Hanover German. It is the situation in span of few hundred years which we know very good and there are a lot of writing and even sound records. On the other hand what we now call Hettite, Luwian, Lycian, Kalashma etc are languages with corpus in one good novel book spread through a few thausands years. Maybe relation between Hettite and Luwian similar to Berlinisch and Bayerisch where hypothetical Anatolian is "Hochdeutsch". Just as an example i will give you one sentance in Hochdeutsch, Berlinisch and Bayerisch and English. I had a bread roll for breakfast. Hochdeutsch: Ich habe ein Brötchen zum Frühstück (gegessen). Bayerisch: I hoab heid Fria a Semmel gessen Berlinisch: Ick hab' 'ne Schrippe(Brötchen) zum Frühstück jejessen. So basically what you can see above are distinctive enough languages if they have any political status. Also Dutch or Dänisch are not much different from Hochdeutsch as German (also Austria and Swiss) local dialects.

🇮🇹🤔In the Iliad, by literary convention the Greeks and Trojans spoke the same language, therefore theoretically Greek. However, speaking from a historical point of view, in reality very little is known of what language the inhabitants of Troy spoke, given that not many inscriptions have been found during archaeological excavations, but it is hypothesized that they spoke a language similar to that of the Hittites, called Luvia. The Luwian language, an Indo-European Anatolian language, has been hypothesized as a possible language spoken in Troy, in particular starting from the studies of Calvert Watkins in 1986: The name Priam has a Luwian etymology (or rather it could be the Hellenization and transliteration of the Luwian name Pariya-muwa, meaning "exceptionally brave man"), as well as that of 9 of his closest relatives out of 16 named by Homer. Furthermore, there was a Bronze Age Arzawa ruler with a similar name associated with Priam, Piyamaradu, mentioned as ruler in Hittite documents written in Luwian (his name in that language means gift of the devotees). Alexander (the second name of Paris) in the form of Alaksandu is known as the lord (but perhaps not the legitimate King) of Wilusa in Hittite sources, in the Anatolian languages ​​his name can be associated, even if with a not entirely clear etymology, to god of the sun and war, Apaliunas, similar to the Luvian god Aplu, lord of the plague, all attributes also recognizable in the classical Greek Apollo (but not in the Mycenaean sources). It would therefore be a Luwian name or of Anatolian origin similar but distinct from Luwian. Anchises (and Hector) could have a Luwian etymology, Achis in Philistine (a language whose origin is unknown, perhaps Anatolian or Ideo-European, but soon absorbed by the surrounding Semitic languages) meant King-Sovereign-Commander. (google translate)

I was always convinced during the war it was some kind of Greek used among the elites. The commoners might have spoken several other more or less local languages of various origins.

@thatisme3thatisme38

6 күн бұрын

Thracian

@sirrathersplendid4825

Күн бұрын

In Hollywood movies even the Germans speak English. Since Homer spoke Greek, of course the Trojans will speak Greek.

@zarni000

Күн бұрын

@@sirrathersplendid4825 exactly. but even homer admits there was a mix of languages spoken when they gathered the armies. also it's not even certain homer existed. just stories retold over and over. the common folk most likely would think everybody spoke greek since they didn't see much of any foreigners ever.

@sirrathersplendid4825

Күн бұрын

@@zarni000 - “Homer” is a convenient name for the author of the Iliad. Whether he (or they, as it may have been more than one writer) existed is irrelevant as some actual person had to do the work of writing the thing down. We might as well call him “Homer”.

@zarni000

Күн бұрын

@@sirrathersplendid4825 i agreed with you.

Awesome ❤❤❤

Such an interesting topic. Now I kinda want to play with Troy in total war. Still trying my first campaign with Achilles tho :(

Troyans were definitely Greek speaking people, as a part of greek nation and were beaten by other Greek people

great video

I hope new findings will someday help us with this question

Mycenean culture has Minoan roots...Minoans used Linear A that was found in S Thrace at Perperikon...while Minoan Religion has many common elements with discoveries in Thrace...

I think the Luwian hypothesis is most probable.

@Jessi_apo

11 күн бұрын

We don't know more than omerous the other is opinions

They're speaking greek because they where greek city state like Mycynes and Crete, Phtia and Achaia etc. Homer write it in the Illiad.

Its been a long time since I've read the Illiad, but I think Homer said Troy was colonised by Greeks. In the Illiad the Greeks & Trojans have no problem talking to each other. Artifacts described by Homer, such as the boars' tusk helmet "worn by young gallants" & the silver bowl with four handles, with a small bird on each one leaning towards the wine & water mixing bowl, have been found at Mycenaean sites. Homer also mentions Achilles giving a prize of "rare iron" at Patroclus' funeral games. These things & many others show the author had a thorough knowledge of these times. Homer also mentions Achilles receiving a written message, of "deadly signs", which shows he was literate. I think the Illiad was originally written in Linear B, on papyrus in Mycenaean times. There is another piece of circumstantial evidence that gives some support for this. There is one word that doesn't fit the poetic verse, but the older version of the word in Mycenaean Greek does.

@skypter

6 күн бұрын

First,no greek name was on that time.pelasgian yes.

@sirrathersplendid4825

Күн бұрын

For Homer, the Trojan War was relatively recent - just four hundred years or so in the past. He doubtless had some knowledge of the material culture of that time, and perhaps had seen actual artefacts dedicated in temples.

@festimb2746

Күн бұрын

At the time of the War of Troy, no Greek or Hellenes names were used among the Achaean tribes. At their time the Maya civilization was not called El Salvador or Guatemala, and in the future people will say the French spoke French not the Europeans spoke French...

It needs to be remembered that Ilios (Troy) was a commercial crossroads at the mouth of the Hellespont, so all sorts of people passed through or settled there. Likely Aeolian Hellenes had made their way there and it's not impossible they were among the ruling class. But Hittite, since Troy sat right on the edge of the vast Hittite Empire, may have been widely spoken; but Luwian was the lingua franca of the Hittite Empire (overtaking Hittite itself) so that may have been all that was needed. Just because Tyrrhenian was not Indo-European does not mean it would not have been spoken and the Tyrsenoi (as the Egyptians called the Tyrrhenians) were known to have dwelt on Limnos. So the inhabitants of Troy likely spoke many languages, like in most seaports, but I'd wager Luwian, Tyrhennian, and Aeolian Greek were predominant.

@user-gs2wb2lp1v

7 күн бұрын

Trojans were Dardanian, Illyrians and Arvanitas today Albanians. As we know by history after the distribution of Troy Princ Enea took all his people and moved westward and settled in Butrint to their brothers in south Albania. From there they settled in Toscana today Italy.

@gregorynixon2945

7 күн бұрын

@@user-gs2wb2lp1v Too funny.

@ellinmakedon1216

5 күн бұрын

​@@user-gs2wb2lp1v🤣🤣🤣🤣🚍🏥

@ellinmakedon1216

5 күн бұрын

​@@user-gs2wb2lp1vthe first Arvanitas came in Greece after 1100AD and albanians are not Illyrians 😂😂😂😂😂

What's the name of Hector's wife and kid? His medium sister's ? Who 's Priamus nephew in Greek Army? When Trojans went to Sparta ( Paris met Helen) negotiations were on what dictionaries where used. You got this destruction of Crete when Thyra's volcano erupted while you've got quite a few cretan ships and army gathered and paid on their way to Ilion. Which is first in time. (ruined economy) Gathering money and sending ship and army into an expensive war? Croesus and Solon had a discussion I do believe we know the circumstances did they understand each other? Then you ve got Timaios by Plato

The Trojan war is not about Greeks and Trojans, only the westerns translate it in that way. The Greeks as my self we learnrd the Iliad as the Homer writing and describe the war between Acheans and Trojan's. The term Greek arive from hero Grekos (old man) and this is the roman exonim for the Hellenes in historical period. The ethnotic term Hellas mentioned in Iliad as a city area in Thessaly who was part of kingdom of Achilles.

@gregorynixon2945

9 күн бұрын

Almost certainly Troy was attacked by the Peoples of the Sea, which may have included Achaeans. Likely Troy fell after Mycenae and Tiryns, so the Achaeans could have become homeless by that time and turned into raiders.

@Thebattler86

9 күн бұрын

The Trojan war is documented by both Greeks and Welsh.

There is only 1 language in this planet that explains and still uses the word - Troy-

My guess is that the Ruling class was Greek speaking and the common inhabitants of the city could be Luwian, Mysian, or something else. If the earlier layers weren't so damaged during excavation we probably could have seen when the Mycenaean style began and therefore we would have a better record and timeline of events possibly. Phenomenal as always!

Homer, a Greek, writes in Iliad that half of the Greek Gods take the side of the Trojans who bear Greek names and still some debate if they were Greeks and what language they were talking....Oh God(s)!

@moderatecanuck

4 күн бұрын

A lot of the civilizations in the Near East borrowed from each other pantheons, so that is not a good indication

@antoniosvidakis

4 күн бұрын

@@moderatecanuck Keeping the same name? Having exact the same 12 main Gods? Or just those 6 gods that helped the Trojans? Well if you can be more specific about who they were, their names (In Trojan since they did not speak Greek...) and their attributes (or powers) we would like to hear it cause it seems you deny the fact that a Greek speaks about Greek Gods refering to them with their Greek names but "donors" them as helpers to a foreign power which does not make any sense. Homer is specific about Greek gods using their Greek names. Or else he should had used the name Trojans use for those partuicular gods. Or at least make the distinction of both their names in Greek and in Trojan language.

@jokester3076

4 күн бұрын

The Ancient Greeks believed that foreigners worshiped the same gods as them. They identified the chief deity worshiped by foreigners with Zeus, and the war god with Ares ect..

@antoniosvidakis

4 күн бұрын

@@jokester3076 So Greeks believed that all foreigners no matter who they are, easterners or westerners worshipped the same gods as themselves. What are the ancient sources for this claim, it would be interesting for us to hear where it is found written.

My gut feelings is a Luwic language with a substratum of the non Indoeuropean language spoken in the early Bronze Age in that region. But is without doing more detailed research, just based on reading general (and often older) books about the Bronze Age in the Near East, Anatolia, some Online sources and so on, Museum visits, etc. and not from actively hunting down papers about the topic.

@user-gs2wb2lp1v

7 күн бұрын

The Lowic language is a derivative of Hittite one. Before Hittite was Sumerian. The Illyrian Dardanian and Hellenic languages are Successors of Hittite so Anatolian languages are base for Indo-European languages

Homer not saying they speak different languages is indicative of nothing except his need to tell a coherent story. He does however mention the Trojan army speaking different languages and needing interpreters. I'm not suggesting this is firm evidence of anything, but people cannot use Homer's failure to mention linguistic difference as proof of anything. Language specificity is typically an afterthought in storytelling. I don't believe the Bible ever mentions what language is being spoken even though the possibilities are Hebrew, Aramaic, Koine Greek, Latin, and others.

@klausbrinck2137

11 күн бұрын

Well, the most straight-forward way to interpret it, would be, that the Trojans speak greek, but also have allies (helping them in the batlle, and coming from nearby regions), that don´t speak greek. It directly acknowledges, that yes, there is other, foreign languages, but that the Trojans aren´t the ones speaking them, they just speak greek.

@ghostlightdc

11 күн бұрын

@@klausbrinck2137 It could also be interpreted that Greek is the diplomatic language, or hat Greeks didn't speak Trojan much like modern English speakers abroad. I still think it means nothing though.

@jimanast3593

11 күн бұрын

​@@ghostlightdc In that time there weren't any "linguae francae". The first one was Greek during Hellenistic period & the second one was Latin, later. ALL who were speaking greek were Greeks and those who were not speaking greek were Barbarians (ie: not understandable). Homer, about the meetings of Acheans & Trojans describes EVERYTHING (ie: people present, their ancestors, the presents given etc) but no translators, because there weren't any!

@ghostlightdc

11 күн бұрын

​@@jimanast3593 That's simply untrue. The diplomatic language of the late Bronze Age was Akkadian. It doesn't matter what Homer says as you have to separate the actual history from the story. Homer was not alive at the time of the Trojan War, and his goal was to tell a story not to be a historian. While there are kernels of Bronze Age history remnant in the story such as weapons and the Catalogue of Ships, Homer was not trying to impart a detailed historical account.

@ghostlightdc

11 күн бұрын

​@@jimanast3593That's simply untrue, Akkadian was the diplomatic language of the late Bronze Age. Homer was not a historian and did not live during the time of the Trojan War. What he wrote in a poem does not constitute evidence of languages spoken 500 years prior. In the movie Troy, everyone speaks English.

Alaksandu is definitely a Greek Name Not sure what the Luvian equivalent would be

@gregorynixon2945

9 күн бұрын

It's not inconceivable that the Hellenes borrowed the name from the Hittites.

@Shenordak

8 күн бұрын

But he could still have had a Greek name influenced by Mycenean contacts, eventhough his mother tongue and the main language of Troy was Luwian or something else

There is also a theory that Trojan was a Kartvelian (related to Georgian) language.

@abidincetin3691

4 күн бұрын

İon, İone adı KARTVELİ dilinden adlar olduğu ihtimali yüksektir... Aka Eke Ege adı da Türkçe, Ubikva olsa gerektir...

Of course, they were not Turks, as these originated in Northern Central Asia, where they share linguistical traits with Mongolian people. In those days, Asia Minor was more influenced by Indo-European groups.

My assumption is that Trojans spoke Luwian as other western Anatolians. But since Myceanean influence increased in western Anatolia after bc 1250 there could be Myceaneans rulers there. But All those questions regarding the late bronze age Agean region civilisations would be answered if Arzawa clay tablet archieve found. Because we know that Arzawa had regular diplomatic letter traffic with Egypt and Hittites. Arzawa archieve most probably includes more informations regarding the Aegean and Anatolian region.

@gregorynixon2945

9 күн бұрын

I share your dream.

@Thebattler86

9 күн бұрын

The Trojans spoke Welsh, because the Welsh are Trojans!

@user-ex6nd8dq8w

8 күн бұрын

Why would your assumption be Luwian and not Greek? Luwians were not even "western Anatolians" but rather Eastern ones, neighbors of Hittites. Their connection to the later Lydian kingdom is still discussed, but the main hypothesis is that Luwian populations moved, in the aftermath of Hittite kingdom collapse, westwards and organised the kingdom of Lydia and as such Lydian could be a descendant language of Luwian. But that has no connection to Troy back in 1200 BC. It is puzzling to me how everyone rushed to suggest a non-Greek language just because Troy is on the east side of the Aegean Sea. I ascribe this to plain lack of intelligence. This is the equivalent of stating that Danes' language should bear no resemblance with Swedish language because Danemark is part of continental Europe and Sweden is part of the overall Scandinavian 3-peninsular complex on the north side of the sea. It can't be that all western and northern Aegean and all the islands were Greeks / Greek speakers and somehow the eastern part of the Aegean they had to be "non-Greek" speakers. At any rate any presence of non-Greek speakers would be the result of invaders from the inside of Anatolia and such invasions would happen from time to time but in absence of them by commerce along Greek language would re-affirm itself like it happened in archaic times (e.g. Carians expanded briefly but then Greeks quickly took the upper hand re-affirming their presence). There is absolutely nothing to tell us that Troy was a non-Greek city and/or a non-Greek speaking city. The state of Troy and the city/acropolis of Ilion was founded by ethnic Greeks, not Anatolians. It was populated by Greeks. Archaeology excavated what was basically a Mycenaean site and it is only not termed as such in order to avoid harming the very feelings of Turks today who like to minimize references of Greeks when it comes to Minor Asia. Sure Turks would like people to think that Troyans were not Greeks but Luwians or Hittites and sure the Turkish state promoted such pseudo-theories. But there is nothing non-Greek in there. Homer himself clearly describes Troyans as Greeks just not part of the Achaean unofficial confederation, hence non-Achaeans. But Greeks nontheless. The 100% of Troyan names are Greek and even their birth-names are all Greek, their Gods are Greek, their customs are Greek, there is absolutely nothing non-Greek there apart the fact that Troyans had also among their allies other people, non-Greek ones from the interior of Anatolia (but not Luwians, nor Hittites - they are not mentioned at all in there).

Love the video but can you do the Illyrian once?

Explain the meaning of Troy in the languages that you are suggesting

Recently, we have concluded so far that Troy is not necessarily "Troy", that is, there is less proven evidence that what we thought was the site of "Troy" in the Iliad may not have been. Then, there is the problem of the language. If we don't have the site, where there could be inscriptions, then what was the Trojan language really? ;)

Homer (or the poets named Homer) writes (really sings) many centuries after the Trojan war. Probably he (or they) changed the Trojan names in Greek. Trojan culture was related to the Anatolian (Hittite) world. The Hatti were the ancient inhabitants of central Anatolia, before Hittites' arrival, and probably spoke a non indoeuropean language (protokatvelian?). Trojans perhaps spoke Luwian or also a protokartvelian language or another ancient language forever unknown.

@nezperce2767

6 күн бұрын

@silviosposito375 there are the Cypriot poems there are the participants in the Trojan War long long last in time have to have negotiations at one time and then you've got nothing more than the Greek sources that one disregards all of it without a clue based on any kind of sources stating differently just because one is not comfy of it stupidity or ignorance is not an excuse

The Anatolian languages were the first off shoot of the main Indo-European family. Their presence in the region encompasses the entire span of Troy's history. I think it's reasonable to assume the people who lived there were fluent with one of these language branches and fluent with the non-Indo-European neighbors' language(s) well as the Hellenic languages as their culture rose to prominence. It's difficult to say for sure their linguistic identity due to 1. the degree of intermixing between cultures 2. it being a city-state at a major trade hub 3. our ignorance about these non-Indo-European languages 4. the lack of material remains

...BC history is so very interesting!...

Trojans were Greeks too Is not something to discuss about it

@Thebattler86

2 күн бұрын

@@apmikalogran no

Lots of people who are absolutely sure they know what language people of Troy spoke. Where do they get this information?

Αρχαία Ελληνικά. Έλληνες ήταν οι Τρωες

Tyrsenian like language maybe?

@gregorynixon2945

9 күн бұрын

Tyrsenoi or Tyrrhenian?

The Trojan war was mentioned by Homer as AGreek civil war. They talked They all talked The same language ,Greek, worshipped the same gods have the same culture so as Homer says and all the above indicate all those involved in this Cival war were Greeks.

Interesting, I'd always assumed that Troy was an Anatolian city related to the Hittites, and that all the commonalities with the Greeks implied in the Iliad were just literary devices. Reality seems a bit more... complex.

@-BlackMamba-

10 күн бұрын

Trojans were of Aeolian origin , hittites are further away to central-eastern Anatolia and thus they have nothing to do with that , since they never had any real influence towards western Anatolia, literally western Anatolia was belonging to Greeks , specifically north-west to Aeolians and south-west to Ionians

@gregorynixon2945

9 күн бұрын

You may be right. The vast Hittite Empire cannot be ignored. Yes, it's complex.

@user-ex6nd8dq8w

8 күн бұрын

@@-BlackMamba- The overall region of Troy was populated mostly by Aeolian Greeks from central Greece (mostly Thessaly and the central-northern Aegean islands). But the city of Troy (Ilion) itself had been founded by Dardanos, a mythical king of Arcadia back at the time Arcadians still ruled much of Peloponesus (also showing that Achaeans in Peloponesus had actually come from north of Peloponesus and restricted Arcadians in the central mountain ranges).

@-BlackMamba-

8 күн бұрын

@user-ex6nd8dq8w well Arcadians are still Greeks tho , actually they are one of the oldest and 1st Greek tribes in the whole hellenic region , along with , Minoans , Pelasgians and Atlantians(if they existed indeed) I might forgetting 1 more tribe I don't remember it name rn but yeah , altho I think that Aeolians had some control and influence over Triy , but Arcadians might be indeed made the city , bcs they are know for doing some expeditions towards the east and the Aegean islands too

@nezperce2767

6 күн бұрын

@@llanitedave then you might have a clue in what way tjose two could come in touch or the names of Hector's wife and child his sister or how was Priamus nephew in the Greek camp - army

Very educational. Id always assumed Trojans undoubtedly spoke an Indo European language but i didn't know their origins went back beyond indo European speakers arriving in that part of Eurasia

Is it fair to say the Iliad is an Iron Age story seeking to explain the cultural memories of Troy VIIa and its collapse?

Luwian is the most probable answer. It would be not strange though that Trojans and Achaeans (at least the leaders) understood each other, and Homer presents that capacity as a fluent communication for the sake of the literature. As about the seal, one evidence is not enough, but it is also 100% of all evidence!

When King of Troy Priamos visited Achilles to beg him about taking back the dead body of his son Hector and bare him with honour didn't need translators to communicate and understand each other. They had common language and Gods.

@gregorynixon2945

5 күн бұрын

That's epic poetry, not history. Proves absolutely nothing.

@christoskotsias8050

5 күн бұрын

@@gregorynixon2945 epic poetry was the cause for Heinrich Schliemann to ecscavate and find Troia.

@gregorynixon2945

5 күн бұрын

@@christoskotsias8050 Of course. You have a point? Schliemann did not find what he expected, no matter how hard he tried to pretend he had. In fact he dug down through Troys no one had existed, destroying the later Troys above (including Homer's Troy), going back to about 2000 BCE.

@gregorynixon2945

5 күн бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/oGSKj6yOhLHMYpM.html

@sofiatsinari2122

4 күн бұрын

​@@gregorynixon2945proves everything, but if you are anthellenik you truy to find nonsences to claim the opposite

Troy is not there where they say it was.

Probably they spoke a luvian language. Hittites tablets say the kings of the city were Luvian.

The Etruscan migration story has pretty much been dismissed by modern genetic research. Etruscans were indeed native to Italy. The Trojan origin story of Romans has also been deemed a falsehood (propaganda created during the time of Augustus to be specific).

@mihovillmisha9885

6 күн бұрын

Etruscans are not native of Italy but proto Ilyrians. Many words that we have in etruscan have equivalent in modern Albanian. I am not an Albanian but west try by all means to dismiss the obvious.

@captainfury497

5 күн бұрын

@@mihovillmisha9885 Genetic studies have proven all these wrong. Etruscans were native Italians by blood. Furthermore your theory is wild and isn't supported by any linguist or historian because Etruscan isn't even an Indo-European language while Albanian is.

GREEK !

Carian should be pronounced like the word "care" (not "car") followed by "ian".

Luwian? Name one writer in the bc that writes about Luwian

According Prof. D.Page, Trojans were greekspeaking.

Τρώες και Αχαιοί πίστευαν τους ίδιους θεούς και στις μεταξύ τους συζητήσεις δεν χρειάζονταν μεταφραστή 😉

ALL who were speaking greek were Greeks and those who were not speaking greek were Barbarians (ie: not understandable). Homer, about the meetings of Acheans & Trojans describes EVERYTHING (ie: people present, their ancestors, the presents given etc) but no translators, because there weren't any! Trojians and Achaeans were both speaking greek. They also had the same gods, a key fact for the ancient greek nation. Archaeological finds show strong relations to mainland and island Greece; the same culture (one stamp from the East show commercial affairs). So, Trojans were Greeks, Homer describes the 1st greek civil war!

You said not Indoeuropean but the name of the city is a form of Helios? Linear B Minoan language has been deciphered and we are not sure how early it replaced Linear A. Also the water level at 3.000 BC is a lot shallower than today, so the map is different. You focus too much on the language and forget that they shared Gods, customs, etc. So it may be convenient to dismiss that they spoke the same Language as a narrative device, but you have to dismiss a whole lot more, including the supposed reason of the war, being the capture of Helen by the Trojan prince. Lastly, since at the time there were Greek settlements in Crimea, it is far fetched to suppose that Troy was too far for them to be fluent in Greek.

@klausbrinck2137

11 күн бұрын

Ήλιος Ίλιον The 2 words have different etymology/descent and different meaning, but sound similar. ilios, ilion, are written with a different "i" at the beginning, Transcription in english is Helios and Ilion

Το sum up : 1) Homer and all other Epics mention Troy and Troyans as bearing Greek names only, having Greek gods, Greek customs even Greek nick-names and distinguish them explicitly from their non-Greek allies coming from the interior. Mythology also mentions that Troy was founded by Arcadian Greeks. 2) Hittites referring to Wilusa (i.e. Ilion, the city of Troy) mention 2 of its leaders Alaksandu (which sounds very much the Greek name of Alexander) and Piyama-radu (which sounds very much like the Greek name Priamos), both names mentioned in the Epics (Alexander was the birth name of Paris, Paris was his nick name, Priamos was the nickname, his birthname was Podarkes). 3) Archaeology unearthed a city that looked like a Mycenaean citadel. and of course.... 4) Other than occasional trade items coming from the East as one would expect and which were a small minority of the local Greek stuff found in there, nothing non-Greek was found linked with the city of Ilion. Hittites themselves never claimed to have established there. Lydians were not yet there in western Minor Asia (e.g. Homer does not even refer to them - their ancestors Luwians were still in eastern Minor Asia). Modern "specialists": Troy was Hittite!!!! No!!! It was Luwian!!!!! LOL!

@user-gs2wb2lp1v

7 күн бұрын

Today every country speak English but they are not all English people. Hellenic culture was dominant at that time. The new invented Greece language (Graikos) don’t understand Hellenic or Homeric language.

@mariadespina80

6 күн бұрын

What very few people know, but proven by clear historical sources, is the fact that the famous ancient city, which Homer talks about in the Iliad, is a Thracian city. The Thracians were the primordial people in Europe, over 100 tribes that Herodotus writes about. Primordial compared to the Greeks who appear later.

@simban00

6 күн бұрын

Hittites did not exist. It's Jewish myth. The guy in this channel is lost. When all these bananas realize how old and how magnificent ancient Greece was they will stop being specialists about Batman and DC comics

@mahatmaniggandhi2898

6 күн бұрын

the name priamos has luwian origin

@mahatmaniggandhi2898

6 күн бұрын

the names troy and ilion themselves are of anatolian origin. lydians, an anatolian people were also culturally and religiously influenced by greeks so these points that you made won't prove that they were greek. the architecture is partly greek and partly anatolian and why are you basing your claim on trojan religion on homer?

Trojans. Greeks who were not commited to Greek states alliance (The NATO of this ancient era) . Commited to Hittite empire. And the Alliace went against them. And then another empire went against the Greeks.

@-BlackMamba-

10 күн бұрын

They weren't really committed to Persians, they were a powerhouse themselves , and achaeans were kinda the Nato of that time so yeah u kinds correctly , it's more like as if Achaeans were Nato while Trojans were the Russians pretty much like that was a rivalry for the influence and trade in the area , but they were both of greek origins specifically Trojans were Aeolians

@nezperce2767

10 күн бұрын

@rv9785 no persians in the area yet, too many in between. Get back to grammar school. There is linguistics there is history. Should one put everything in a blender one makes a cake not a thesis

@HOPEfullBoi01

5 күн бұрын

The NATO analogy is honestly hilarious at best

@nezperce2767

5 күн бұрын

@@HOPEfullBoi01 actually the was a war or two Hycsos Hittites Egyptians and Greeks on a basis of alliances amongst them

Can we make rational judgements on "orally' transmitted, dactylic hexametric texts, 4-5 centuries apart? Of precisely 15,893 + 12,109 lines? Moat probably the collective job of few 3 century BC scribes, from the Greek Ptolemaic school of Alexandria. They also gathered Anatolian and Thracian mythology as Greek, while even what goes as Greek alphabet was most probably Phrygian.

@wankawanka3053

10 күн бұрын

no such thing as thracian and anatolian mythology keep coping

I think rather or not the Trojan war happened as we know of in the Illiad doesn't matter. Bottom line it is clear Troy wasn't influenced just by one language/culture. I always thought they spoke Luwian but I believe it was a unique combination language between Luwian and a form of Greek. I wonder how Luwian even sounded like.

Wilusa-Troy. There are ancient Slavic deities, god Veles (Weles) and god Trojan (pronounce Troyan). Trojan name is derived from word "tri" (three). God with three faces - heading in three direction. Alternative version of this name is Triglav (three heads). Weles/Veles is god of cattle, underground, water, wells, underground riches and wealth generally. The word is related to word "volos" meaning "hair", sheep wool etc. (Paris was a shepard). Veles was sometimes pictured as dragon. In mythology of Troy-Ilias-Wilusa you will find Troy and Iliias-Wilusa were related like son and father or viceversa. Ilus son of Tros. That explains two version of the name. There is also a Hittite myth about dragon Illuyanka slayed by the sky god. Compare with Zeus vs. Typhon etc. Troy was important place in Greek mythology. Zeus, Mother Goddess and Paris are associated with nearby Mount Ida. Mount Ida was a source of water of Troy. Tros and Ilus were descendants of Zeus. So, these name probably points to some indoeuropean myths. Or even older.

@ellinmakedon1216

5 күн бұрын

Slavs came in this area after 600AD from the Russians stepps😂

In my Indo-European way, I will say Merci.

Nice presentation, thanks!

The Trojan language was not Luwian. The Luwian languages spread in the same way as earlier the Hettite, that is from the Middle Anatolia. Troy spoke something older. What they might have spoken I have not any idea. Kaskian? No. Some other Anatolian language perhaps.

And the Minoans has no influence? This's not clear to me

I am surprised that there is no wriiten literature let alone a complete library from Troy ever excavated. Granted, the invasive and crude archeological work by Schliemann may have bypassed any effort to look for any library.

Troy might’ve been the Alexandria before Alexandria in Anatolia.

@HOPEfullBoi01

5 күн бұрын

What does that even mean..?

There must be a ethnic/linguistic link between Troy, Thrace and the Balkan region; didn't contingents come from Thrace and the Vardar River valley to help Troy.

@nezperce2767

10 күн бұрын

Slavs came arround 2000 years later you might be informed by cyril or methodius ( origin of the words?)

@tonygjorgievski8966

10 күн бұрын

I still think there must be a link for that region to join team Troy.

@nezperce2767

10 күн бұрын

@@tonygjorgievski8966 balcan as a word is " invented" 2000 years latet get yr history motes corrected or study assyrians hyxos babylonians cretans (mynians and minoans) thracians dakians getes might be chibese not slavs though

@tonygjorgievski8966

10 күн бұрын

I know, it is a Turkish word; it was used for the wider audience. Mt Haemus is the previous name. I aware of the peoples you have mentioned; Assyrians, Babylonians in ME, active there and in eastern Anatolia (Asia Minor) later. I am aware of the peoples you mentioned from the Balkan region as well. However, it does not change my thought that there must have been some link for those Balkan peoples to join team Troy. I am asking why they went to help that way and not south to Achaea. Even Wanax TV has asked what do you think? Maybe matters will become clearer with further research into the future. You never know it might end up being a very big surprise even.

@nezperce2767

10 күн бұрын

@@tonygjorgievski8966 do the ignorant idiots Balkan is a Turkish word when Troy was around Turks didn't even exist in altai mountains history is a bit difficult thing cuz you have to have two things one average logic mind secondly but not least education you have to study in order to talk about civilizations of the time it's not nowadays giving and take information on neighboring countries if it's that difficult try another craft cooking might be a big easier

Greks were minerals when hitits were around,,,,make a program about luvians ,,people can understand,,

For goodness's sake, people (and this especially applies to all the Greek zealots who think Homer was a god-inspired historian), check other historical videos about the Trojan War by Wanax TV or "HistorywithCy" or "Kings and Generals". Best of all take the time to actually read a book. I highly recommend a little book of 126 pages written by the esteemed American historian & archaeologist, Eric Cline: *The Trojan War: A Very Short Introduction*. I just reread it. It clears up a great many misconceptions and does away with cherished lies. It is not "antiHellenik" to learn the truth!

@Elstocks21

Күн бұрын

Greeks at least base this on something and not thin air like the Albanians whose ethnogenesis dates to the 6th century, the Turks who arrived a millennia ago, etc. Why single out Greek ”zealots”?

@gregorynixon2945

Күн бұрын

@@Elstocks21 Hi Elstocks21. I don't see Turks claiming Trojans spoke Turkish, but there may have been one Albanian who said the Trojan's native tongue became Albanian. No surprise there.😁I have loved Greek myth and history since I was a lad, and it's notable how the two have merged in the minds of many Hellenes (and for Rober Graves). But I studied history in university and learned to differentiate the two, mostly.

There were some Thraicians living in the area, but they came later. The language must have been Phrygian or Greek. That prince Alaksandu clearly has either a Greek or Phrygian name. In Luwian, there can't be a name like Alaksandu. It should have started with Par- from the Luwian verb parāi - to defend, to protect.

Lemnian ans lesbian were linked to etruscan Tyrrhenian language... And trojan was part of arzawa kingdom 😊

Greek of course

@azwris

11 күн бұрын

As Homer mentions!

@Thebattler86

9 күн бұрын

No Welsh. We are the Trojans who escaped slavery from you.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

@Thebattler86

9 күн бұрын

​@@azwrisThen Homer must have had too much beer and doughnuts!

@azwris

9 күн бұрын

@@Thebattler86 At least he was getting a meal, in comparison to others who don't eat at all and make irony on the internet, as their brains are almost gone!

@Thebattler86

9 күн бұрын

@@azwris Doh!!

7:24 Greek: Apollonas Trojan: Apaliunas. Sounds like a Russian tries to speak greek, to my ears...

@jwessel1969

11 күн бұрын

The name Apaliunas made me think of Lithuanian.

@klausbrinck2137

11 күн бұрын

@@jwessel1969 But I mean the accent and pronunciation, and not the vocabulary itself. The vocabulary itself is a singlular coincidense, cause -unas exists in some lithuanian words. But every Russian, who tries to speak greek for the first time, will pronounce all greek words in that way...

the trojan names are greek the relegion is greek , the culture is greek , the trojan war is civil war greeks vs greeks

@pranveraohri1204

2 күн бұрын

It was a war between illyro-pellasgians.No greek ore hellen was mentioned in Iliad.Hellenisation of history is a big lie.The comments of greeks here are as always stupid and ridiculous.

The original Greek pronunciation of "Ilios" was "Wilios". That explains why the Hittite name for Troy was "Wilusa". The Welsh tradition says they came from Troy and still carry the name of Wales to this day. The Trojans were also part of a larger group called the Cimmerians or Kimmeroi. The Welsh are still called Cymry in their own language to this day!🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

@leenorman853

5 күн бұрын

What utter nonsense. "Wales" and "Welsh" are just Saxon words for "foreigner" or "barbarian". The Trojan fantasies of Geoffrey of Monmouth were borrowed from the Romans and have absolutely no factual basis.

@julesgosnell9791

5 күн бұрын

I think your Welsh connection a bit of a stretch. If memory serves the words "Wales" and "Welsh" are Anglo-Saxon exonyms meaning something like "Outsider" and "Cymru" derives from a Brythonic word meaning something like "The People" - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales#Etymology - I think there is plenty of DNA evidence to show that the Welsh are genetically Celtic and have been living in the British isles since around 1,000 BC. I'm not aware of any evidence linking them to Troy.

@Thebattler86

5 күн бұрын

@@julesgosnell9791 It's so frustrating talking to you. You don't know anything, but you think you do. Do some research on the Hostoria Regum Britanniae, Historia Brittanum, the Iolo Manuscripts, The Kolbrin, Wilson and Blacketts' research, archaeological findings and oral traditions. Until you do that don't even talk to me.

@julesgosnell9791

5 күн бұрын

Oh dear - you clearly find being questioned very stressful - usually the sign of weak argument - I’ll do as you request and not talk to you then…

@julesgosnell9791

5 күн бұрын

Oh dear, oh dear - sorry - can’t resist - I just googled Kolbrin et al. expecting to find reference to some weighty tome but the first thing that came to hand mentioned a Welsh hieroglyphic script with links to Egyptian hieroglyphs and apparently makes the translation of Etruscan (a language isolate from Tuscany, Italy) translatable - oh - and it linked to … Graham Hancock … - you are well off into the weeds of Pseudo-History here, friend. Enjoy your trip.

Hector was a dardanelle no?

@nezperce2767

10 күн бұрын

Dardanian

@buildingbobby6402

9 күн бұрын

@@nezperce2767 dardania the Illyrian tribe?

@nezperce2767

9 күн бұрын

@@buildingbobby6402 not according to the texts I ve read

@buildingbobby6402

9 күн бұрын

@@nezperce2767 just wondering, in Albanian we say troj or troj et e mi, meaning the land I’m from. Troj et ton : our land ( we own/are from ) if I were to say he’s on our side( part of the same tribe) I’d say osht nga troja jon - he’s from our land/part of our tribe. Just a thought, Troj is mainly used when talking about defending your homeland. Or when referring to land that is in your family name. Trojet e mi- would infer that its land you own and have owned for a generations

@nezperce2767

9 күн бұрын

@@buildingbobby6402 same word in 10 langs or more. There are linguistic prophs that do declare that same words in different languages is not enough structure grammar conjugation just because couple of German linguistics read a book and fan similar this in words that doesn't mean that they proved Indo-European Theory Romans thought of concrete as a material to build houses everybody does nowadays does it mean that everybody took it from the Indo-European builders

Apaliunas perfectly lithuanian name :D like Tarhunz - Parkuns ( Perkunas ) old lithuanian gods. About Wilusa - i could say any indoeuropean languahe, but not greeks. And not turks who were sitting in mongolianat that time

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

BCE is Before Christ Era any way you want to put it.

Unsolvable problem for the present. Without written evidence, its all speculation based on theory. One opinion is as valid as another in this situation.

*_Well, you can keep on wondering....BUT I'VE SAID WHAT I'VE SAID, AND I STAND TO IT!!! TIME SOMEONE PUTS AN END TO ALL THE CONFUSION, BUT ESPECIALLY TO THE INJUSTICE CAUSED BY THE HIDING OF TRUTH!!! Truth can't be invented and made up, it is what it is, and it should make sense in the Present as well, and for as long as it suffers, someone suffers it on themselves - that is called Injustice and it should be fixed!!!_* ✝️

Yes turks was 600 handrret Mongols like Chinese

There’s one thing I’m instinctively sure about: they didn’t use the letter H. For example it was “Oney” not “Honey”. 😂

@julesgosnell9791

5 күн бұрын

errr..... _H_ector.... ?

Herodotus says once more that Greeks are direct descendants of Pelasgians. Herodotus Histories, Book 1, Chapter 58, Section 1: Original text: "τὸ δὲ Ἑλληνικὸν γλώσσῃ μὲν ἐπείτε ἐγένετο αἰεί κοτε τῇ αὐτῇ διαχρᾶται, ὡς ἐμοὶ καταφαίνεται εἶναι: *_ἀποσχισθὲν(APOSCHISTHEN)_* μέντοι ἀπὸ τοῦ Πελασγικοῦ ἐόν ἀσθενές, ἀπό σμικροῦ τεο τὴν ἀρχὴν ὁρμώμενον αὔξηται ἐς πλῆθος τῶν ἐθνέων, Πελασγῶν μάλιστα προσκεχωρηκότων αὐτῷ καὶ ἄλλων ἐθνέων βαρβάρων *_(SO PELASGIANS WERE NOT BARBARIANS, distinguishes barbarians from Pelasgians)_* συχνῶν. πρόσθε δὲ ὦν ἔμοιγε δοκέει οὐδὲ τὸ Πελασγικὸν ἔθνος, ἐὸν βάρβαρον, οὐδαμὰ μεγάλως αὐξηθῆναι" THE key word is original APOSCHISTHEN which translators badly translated into SEPARATED= meaning something different. But Aposchisthen means we are ONE and a SAME and left out later (although in small numbers he says) Bad Translation: "seems clear to me, has always had the same language since its beginning; yet being, when *_SEPARATED_* (Greek original word Aposchisthen= meaning that they are the same stock and later were distinguished) from the Pelasgians, few in number, they have grown from a small beginning to comprise a multitude of nations, chiefly because the Pelasgians and many other foreign people (bad translations again, I explain in the original text) ...."

Read Homer's Iliad.

If the continuity of King Priam's flag is traced, it will become a very interesting theory about the language of the Trojans.Agamemnon and Minelaus are descendants of the P/B/hrygian Pelops.

@klausbrinck2137

11 күн бұрын

Tantalos, the predecessor of Agamemnon/Menelaos, and even of Pelopas, comes from Troy. Still, Tantalos has no relation to the royal family of Troy, The king of Troy, some great-grandfather of Priam, exiled Pelopas, probaly so that the city isn´t reminded anymore, of the horrible crime that Tantalos has committed upon his son Pelopas. So, he came to Greece, and came to be the king of the whole Peloponnes (= Isle of Pelopas)

@gregorynixon2945

9 күн бұрын

No.

@gregorynixon2945

9 күн бұрын

'Most scholars take the etymology of the name Priam from the Luwian 𒉺𒊑𒀀𒈬𒀀 (Pa-ri-a-mu-a-, or “exceptionally courageous”)' - Wik. Luwian is a good candidate for one of Troy's languages.

Homer and euripides call the troans phrygians, but this is probaby inaccurate, because they didn’t appear till the era of homer, they didn’t exist yet in the bronze age

The material culture of Troy in the Late Bronze Age is naturally similar to that of their neighbors in Western Anatolia, i.e., the Luwians. Even the names "Priam" and "Paris" are likely derived from Luwian (Pariamua and Parizitis). Yes, definitive evidence is lacking for sure, but on balance, it points to Luwian, which is, frankly, what ought to be expected.

@jimanast3593

11 күн бұрын

All names in the video are greek, but there are their Hittite versions. The same happens with the names Priam & Paris, U give the Hittite versions. The archaeological finds link Ilion to Greece.

@kingafar816

11 күн бұрын

​@@jimanast3593your a Greek hotep. Troy and the Trojans have nothing to do with Greeks

@SpartanLeonidas1821

11 күн бұрын

@@kingafar816 CRY 🥾🦃🐫👉🏻

@Vasilios-zy1vv

10 күн бұрын

@@kingafar816 and you do Greeks live in Anatolia for thousands of years

@capricorn1784

8 күн бұрын

Priam .ne shqio esht qart fare pri.me udhheq.pri jes jam.edhe sot ne themi pri perpara.pra esht qsrt shqip

Another interesting feature is the canal that is now completely forgotten although it is still there; an overgrown and inconvenient truth. Why should it be there? If Troy were actually at Hissarlik who would care to build a canal from Bounarbashi to Besika Bay? There is more of course: the site at Hissarlik encompasses only 5 acres and really can’t be the object of a ten year commercial war. The map’s legend indicates “Ancient Roads” and they all lead in and out of Bounarbashi and not Hissarlik. And why would the largest and most powerful city in the Greek world be built in lowland marshes when Bounarbashi is upland, airy, dry and beautiful? The current site at Hissarlik only makes sense as a modern sociological construction that pays no heed to the realities and sensibilities of the Ancient world.

@jimanast3593

11 күн бұрын

There's much more than the excavated Troy; that's what earth scanning radars show.