Am I crazy for loving the original design and wishing they stuck to it?

The 2016 one looks so much better, they should've stuck with it.

@kenjisaulsbury6088

6 жыл бұрын

So true man.

@jonathonearl482

4 жыл бұрын

I also think the original version looked a lot better!

This series will actually be a success if this ship goes up in flames by the end of the first season.

The alpha design looks more pre-TOS than the new design to me. As to the engines, the alpha ones were too short and the new ones are too long. Moderation is key.

I hate the cut outs in the saucer. That might work for a space station or something, but on a Starship? Seems like weak spots and bad structural integrity.

@foonacha6237

7 жыл бұрын

Definitely structural weaknesses built in for on-screen demolition sooner rather than later. I'm awaiting the product placement anouncement by CBS linking Star Trek With Dominos pizza. The "Hero-Ship" As Cmdr Cockings would call it is a definite Pizza Cutter now with 2 long toothpicks attached for after your box meal. STD = Star Trek:Dominos ;)

@ozrocker

7 жыл бұрын

"Commander, open communications." A big Nokia logo appears on the view screen. "Hail the Klingon starship." At the end of the video call the Nokia Logo reappears and remains until the end of the scene.

@jimskywaker4345

4 ай бұрын

Structural integrity is not a legitimate complaint when the neck of the TOS connie exists. Also, with the firepower these ships have, antimatter warheads and the like, once you loose shields, you are dead if your enemy wants you to be.

2016 - TNG Galaxy 2017 TNG Sovereign

@jerelo175

7 жыл бұрын

hgjg yea, I'd rather TNG sovereign

@enterprise-h312

7 жыл бұрын

There was a 23rd century Galaxy-class in canon. Just saying.

@hypeninja4786

7 жыл бұрын

True... that's what I thought.

@djpob

7 жыл бұрын

Enterprise-H where was that mentioned in canon?

@williamwells5915

6 жыл бұрын

The TNG episode "Ensigns of Command." The treaty with the Shelliacs explicitly referenced a Galaxy-class in 2255. I think that's right...someone's Memory Alpha-fu may be better.

I actually like the new Discovery design. The old one looks kinda too bulky and stunted, but the new one looks nice

Question! does the Constitution refit (and other ships of that time) have the Basod Collectors under the hull of its warp engines?

It almost looks, to me, that the long nacells may have the ability elongate and retract. Am I wrong on this?

Hi Captain Foley and Commander Caucins(?). This video is your most professional presentation so far. By creating these models, you have gone beyond merely commenting on items that already exist, and elevated yourselves to Star Trek 'investigative journalists'. This is really exceptional work. The modeling and textures are truly professional. Also, the use of wipes and fades for comparison/contrast is a huge leap forward stylistically. Your hard work is greatly appreciated - thank you!

@power543

7 жыл бұрын

We have done this for a few sorts of shows on different ships, glad you like the format! :) This format was especially done for the Discovery Alpha a few months ago breaking it all down like no one had yet. We enjoy this sort of thing. And its Commander Cockings* :)

@astralplane6182

7 жыл бұрын

Great stuff, Commander Cockings! BTW: your CGI work has definitely reached polished professionalism. That, combined with your encyclopedic knowledge of the Star Trek universe, and passion for in-universe explanations of the tech, would definitely make you a strong candidate for an effects house, or even as a junior ship consultant for Discovery. If you haven't already, you should reach out to the designers with which you have contacts and see if one of them will take you under his/her wing. (I did this when I worked in the 'biz'. It was a great experience that really enhanced ones life.) Another strong direction would be to reach out to CIG who are producing Star Citizen. It is heavily starship-focused MMO which is constantly making new vessels, and has employed some big name designers (including the chap who designed the B-wing for Star Wars). Once again, thanks, and well done!

How to fix it 1. Put some constitution style nacelles on it 2 Paint it white 3 Get rid of the Vengeance like bridge cut outs, and the window on the bridge

@DrewLSsix

7 жыл бұрын

Lt. Commander Olly Jackson the constitution will have JUST been launched at this point and is supposed to be the newest bestest class of ships in the fleet, the Discovery judging by its reg number is many years old. Why would it have connie parts again?

@Defunct231324141

7 жыл бұрын

DrewLSsix Because ;)

@Defunct231324141

7 жыл бұрын

Intense Autism Pringle cans.... so it would be a reconstituted potato class? lol

@iamnotanuggetblackhart5103

7 жыл бұрын

No, it would be 12 years since the Constitution class was officially launched by this point. 2240s was when the Constitution class went into service.

@Defunct231324141

7 жыл бұрын

IAmNotANugget BlackHart Exactly

Take the 2017 saucer, put on the 2016 triangle (red impulse engines) and add tos engines... also give it more of a tos hull colouring and while your there get rid of the window and put on a tos deflector. Edit - That makes it sound like I hate this ship (I don't). Just wish it would fit into prime...

@mysticvirgo9318

7 жыл бұрын

there are some behind the scenes copyright and permissions issues between paramount and CBS that prevents CBS from getting too close to the ToS and JJverse details. yeah I m agreeing that I am not keen on the saucer gaps. Don't add things that do not have a good reason.. Do not remove things either. what would be the "engineering" behind the gaps.

@DrewLSsix

7 жыл бұрын

Mystic Virgo. No, they dont have any issues using tos materials.

@Kanye-qz9tn

7 жыл бұрын

I like the saucer cutouts. I hope the different sections can separate like a three section saucer separation. The bridge kinda capsule in the middle could be like a captains yacht.

@isodoublet

7 жыл бұрын

"I like the saucer cutouts" You are wrong.

@Kanye-qz9tn

7 жыл бұрын

God if the fans are like this why do they even bother making more trek...

This ship is starting to grow on me the more I look at it, "it's like a fungus"

The original design looked like they were going for a 23rd Century Galaxy class. If they'd taken that design, made the struts have a more organic upwards sweep and redesigned the nacells to be more rounded it might have worked. As it stands, this looks like it's stuck in a pepetual TNG Warp effect.

who woulda guessed a rejected 1970s design would still look awful in 2017 no matter how much you polish the textures

@Simmons8519

7 жыл бұрын

Agreed. I like the Design of the Shenzhou, the Discovery though? No. Just no.

@dark1810

7 жыл бұрын

shenzhou looks nice even tho it reminds me more of a star trek armada ship than something pre tos era but im ok with letting that slide

@Nichodo

7 жыл бұрын

Shut the hell up :D

@dark1810

7 жыл бұрын

honestly tho if this ship (discovery) isnt like 100 years old to justify all the very simple shapes (triangle on the bottom of the massive flat delta hull massive flat engines simple tos style saucer and stupid cut outs etc) then i dont see how the shenzhou and it fit into the same fleet

@NeonVisual

7 жыл бұрын

Should be called the USS Titanic

Looking forward to part 2. :-)

5:30 .I swear, it it feels like they're making fun of us or something. it's like they said-- "oh you want us to change it huh, okay..... how about this ya nurds"

the fan-favorite Enterprise Refit from ST:TMP was also very much designed by committee and went back and forth between many designers and studios and model makers before the final screen version we know and love. Design by committee can be a good thing sometimes.

Still liking this design. It's new but retro enough. Looking forward to the series this month~

Can you redo this now that it’s on TV?

Discovery is now a new fav for me!

It looks super cool! I love the nacelles.

Yeah you guys love that... Thing. We get it. I so hope this is behind us soon.

The oncoming direct angle approach looks a little like a Galaxy class that has retrofitted folding nacelles folded into the down/flat position.

The new nacelles look so stupidly long that I'm holding out hope that in all the renders we've seen so far they were stretched by the warp effect.

This looks a lot more like a hero ship than the old design, I like it.

the sensor looks like something you'd expect from a science ship that needs more advanced sensors for studying spatial oddities and the like.

It's interesting, in the overhead ortho, the original design seems to be proportioned (in terms of ratio of primary hull and nacelle size, and positioning) to the Galaxy-class, while the redesign seems to hark back much more to the Constitution-refit.

You won't believe how fast it goes! They've broken the time barrier!

You know, the saucer section almost reminds me of the way DS9 is constructed, with the outer docking ring,the middle habitat ring and the center area being the promenade/ops

love this adblock program for youtube.

the only think i could kinda complain about the new design is also the lenght of the new nacelles. and maybe that it would have been nice if the main hull would have been abit more organic shape wise

I wish the secondary hull was smoother, less corners

Someone ordered Chinese takeout the night they redesigned that ship. Chopsticks have never looked so futuristic.

I like the original one a little more. It's more consistent with pre Kirk timeframe.

You guys should use the windows as the basis of scale to see the size comparison. I'm sure it'll be interesting to see.

@power543

7 жыл бұрын

I want to use the docking hatch on the new 2017 version!!

what about the one in the second trailer?

@power543

7 жыл бұрын

That is the 2017 version :)

Are you guys going to do any videos on the Discovery panels at the convention? I believe it would be very informative they respond to many of the issues I've heard from people especially the Klingons I think it would be a worthwhile breakdown.

I'm interested to hear an in-universe explanation for the saucer cut-outs. From a structural integrity point of view, it doesn't seem smart to me.

Maybe something to consider is that the Enterprise NCC-1701 is already in service at this time under Pike, and has been for at least a little while before that (if Robert April is canon). That means Discovery is a newer design than the Constitution class and is actually more of an intermediate step between TOS and TMP in terms of aesthetics. While the Constitution class will get some minor design upgrades through Kirk's 5-year mission, it won't get a major refit for a number of years. Was it ever stated that the Constitution class was the newest class of ship in TOS? It seems more likely that it is an older model even by the time of Kirk's mission. Scotty and Picard also allude to the Constitution class being older at this time while on the holodeck in TNG's "Relics".

Saucer would seem to be about 200m in diameter according to some analysis I've done. The ship overall is about 600m long.

My biggest problem with the alpha was how small the saucer was compared to the secondary hull (bottom up view looked dreadful), now they've made it even smaller :(

What if the nacelles are the same size as the TOS Enterprise? That was supposed to be the heavy cruiser class after all at the time so likely the biggest ship at the time too. Really hard to tell how big the Discovery really is.

the reason for the nacels being so long is that most of the nacels store fungi for the spore drive .

How to Fix: - Make the Soucer section a bunch bigger OR the necelles a bit Shorter. - Streth the neck more to the end of the ship. - make the necell-holder a tiny bit going upward,only a tiny bit.

You know, I love Ralph McQuarries' designs and I always kinda liked this rejected ship... as a 'what if?' Rejected Ralph McQuarrie-designs (for races, Starships, Droids and Walkers) are always used in the "Star Wars Rebels"-Show and they still work, but only because McQuarries designs are deeply part of SWs overall asthetic. His association with ST was a one-off affair (for the abandoned "Planet of the Titans"-Film Project) and other artists with completely different styles (like Andrew Probert or John Eaves) had since worked on the franchise, leaving their mark on it. Hence, a McQuarrie-design simply looks out of place.

@DrewLSsix

7 жыл бұрын

Schwatvogel. But his designs are not "what if" theu are established canon and exist in the prime timeline of trek.

that deflector looks like somebody glued some guns on it. i'd really like to see the Discovery with Phoenix / NX-01 / Constitution style nacelles and with a proper Satellite Dish looking Deflector, a modern and detailed one like the Pacific has for example.

As for the question of the Windows in the first concept. It's possible that in the first version those window panels are exterior transparencies that span multiple decks . Conversely it's possible that the Windows of the second version span only one deck but are smaller portholes than typical Windows. It's dangerous to simply assume that the window size MUST remain consistent over the generations or even from different classes of the same era

Saucer with cutouts = literally a target, SHOOT HERE! The nacelle redesign made a big difference, though, I'm almost willing to like them. And reshaping the secondary hull, away from the Klingon-esqe shape also helped. What I would like to see, just for curiosity's sake, is a Connie built to this aesthetic, where the nacelles are exactly the same length.

About ship size, its notable that Voyager was hyped as a small ship at the time when it was effectively the size of a Connie. And when it came out the connie was a uniquely large ship in tv and movie scifi. So theres definitely been a shift in perspective.

'You guys loved it'... hahahahhahahahaha.

It's like the difference between TOS and TMP refit. They could both be the Discovery, just at different times in its operational life. And the design clearly originating from the same technology era as the Kelvin.

if they clipped the last quarter of the Nacelles they would look more balanced in size with the rest of the ship.

I think they elongated the warp nacelles so much so it could keep the iconic Star Trek three quarters look. It looks pretty strange from overhead. The three quarters looks like a crouching tiger though.

I like it, if you watch the Star Trek shows in order they came out then it does look alright, enough links to ENT to seem nicely canonical, and with the classic 'star trek' feel with the distinct saucer shape. Besides, its just a show we should really all relax.

I think a morph between these 2 extremes would likely have been ideal

Based on the starting pics in the video, the original design looked like the D in a TOS era aesthetic, this version looks like a TOS era ship in the TNG era aesthetic

Lovely renders and a massive improvement over the alpha. I would have liked to have seen the nacelles up on the engineering section a bit more like the Ralph rather than stuck to the sides like Voyager

The revisions make the ship comply fully with Roddenberry's design rules - this solves the line of sight issue.

What surprises me is that with their obsession with putting the Starfleet Delta on everything, they missed a perfect opportunity to make the Discovery look like a giant Starfleet delta from above.

This is probably going to be the Galaxy-class mentioned in the Treaty of Armens.

On the next episode can you please do the side view of both please. Thanks

That first view of the 2016 one reminds me of the Galaxy

maybe the inner circle is also the saucer that separates....did you think of that??? that would be cool.....also waaaayyyyy too long nacelles....

I do think that the nacelles are a LITTLE too long. I'm glad that they extended them, but they probably could have gotten away with doubling the size, as opposed to almost tripling them... I'm also not sure about the neck, they probably should have kept the bleed between the Alpha and Production version the same... And I do think that the front view (Especially in the video you guys uploaded with the NX-Class) looks really similar to the Constitution, which is nice.

It looks like there are rounded armored doors for the bridge window.

It looks like it's doubled (at least, maybe even tripled) in size, just judging by the windows. The ship in the teaser looked very small in comparison to a Constitution, this one looks like the saucer will be comparable to a Connie.

we need it to look more like a TOS paint job.

"They were still building Mirandas into DS9" Well, yes and no. The highest registries for the _Miranda_ class are the USS _Sitak_ (NCC-32591), USS _Nautilus_ (NCC-31910), and the USS _Saratoga_ (NCC-31911). Assuming that registries are chronologically assigned, then that means that they were being produced around the same time as the _Ambassador_ class [e.g. USS _Excalibur_ (NCC-26517)], but well before the _Galaxy_ class [e.g. USS _Galaxy_ (NCC-70637)]. If production ended there, then most of the _Miranda_ class ships that we see are around 30 years old or more. The _Excelsior_ class, however, was in production up to the Mid-Late 24th Century as the highest registry is the USS _Melbourne_ (NCC-62043). Which means that she was built after the _Nebula_ class USS _Farragut_ (NCC-60591). This means that the _Excelsior_ was in production from 2285 (First on screen appearance) to some time in between 2350 and 2360 given the number of registries between the _Melbourne_ and the _Galaxy_ . So approximately 65 to 75 years of continuous production. Thanks to a background image from the TOS episode _Court Martial_ , we know that the USS _Reliant_ (NCC-1864) had already been commissioned and had been in a situation where she needed repairs. vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/4/4d/Starbase11_chart.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080310072415&path-prefix=en Assuming that she was relatively new in the fleet, that would mean that the class could have been in production from roughly 2265 to 2340*, also around the 75 year mark. *2340 based upon the fact that the _Ambassador_ class _Enterprise_ C was lost in 2344 and was not a new ship at the time. Of course when it comes to longevity, you can't beat the _Oberth_ class. USS _Oberth_ (NCC-602) to the USS/SS _Tsiolkovsky_ (NCC-53911). Which means that the class was in production from not long before _Discovery's_ launch to around a decade or so short of the _Galaxy_ class's launch.

Thanks to the model Trekyards made for their previous video the original version really grew on me. I went from absolutely hating it to actually really liking it. There are already much uglier ships in prime canon such as Oberth, Constellation, Steamrunner, Sabre, Miranda, Norway etc. It's a shame they changed it so much. The older version is much nicer than the new one IMO. Thanks for the video guys, and for your efforts in bringing us this comparison. Fecking love your channel! Keep up the great work, it's much appreciated:)

@power543

7 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! - Cmdr Cockings

@gmon78

7 жыл бұрын

power543 No worries commander, and might I say you're long overdue a promotion:)

If they had kept the original version, the Feds would have almost had more of a Klingon design aesthetic than the new Klingons :D

It was said that the Enterprise D was designed to fit on the old TV Screens. That's why it was short looking. This new version of Discovery is prolly designed to fit on Wide Screen TVs. That's why they made it longer.

When are you going to address the elephant in the room about this show supposedly being ultimately a single season and followed up by anthology seasons, beginning with a Nicholas Meyer Khan-focused single season and most likely after that, other various Trek anthology season runs ? It's like you guys are whistling through the graveyard with these renders, and ignoring the leaks about this stuff coming from every direction.

@power543

7 жыл бұрын

All rumor with no sources sited...people rely on us for information and we cant just report on every rumor out there for which there is no actual information public to back it up :)

@drawnhere

7 жыл бұрын

I'm not saying to report it as fact, but to at least acknowledge there's a significant amount of chatter out there that's AWFULLY SPECIFIC about this show ultimately morphing into something quite different in the coming seasons. Leaks are typically not sourced to protect the source.

i just realized that the discovery resembles a vulcan IDIC necklace. best design ever.

at 5:50 it looks great no sorries I like this shot .

The Discovery looks better in it's 16:9 proportions then the 4:3 dimensions (see previous Trek Yards discussion on Enterprise D vs E)

You guys should do a show on the Kronerprise....

Those nacelles remind of of 50's cars tail fins.

Still looks like a design collaboration between the Klingons and the Federation

I do like the updated version more than the first version. as for the different design compared to other Fed ships, I think it could be explained by the fact that the Federation is made up of hundreds of different races and perhaps this ship is not entirely designed by human shipwrights. Ive always wondered where the Andorians and Vulcans, and Telerites and so on and so on left all their starships when they joined the federation

The two things that I find off putting about the design are the pylon to nacelle mountings, up or down, pick a direction, please. The other is the stunted slanting at the aft part of the neck. If you are homaging Ralph McQuarrie's Enterprise, then one should be able to space ski down that neck.

Well they finally did it. They got the same guy that designed the '59 Cadillac to do the fins for a star ship.

@DrewLSsix

7 жыл бұрын

Bill Blair trek ships have had fins for decades....

Looking at this 4 years later, I wish they'd gone with the original design. IMO much better and more appropriate than the one they ended up with.

What a Year Makes ! Today I'm thinking that the 2 of you need to make a Trek Movie ! Last year, Cool--Nerds !

This version, looks fantastic, actually. I would still change those nacelles to be more tubular in design to match the NX and Constitution classes. They're still way too long.

i think the model of the new discovery is a bit off. it lacks the subtle slant of the outer saucer ring and the thin outer edge we saw on the promotional material. that added a really nice sleakness to the saucer.

To me the new one looks like if you take the delta symbol and straighten the curve and even it out.

The alpha nacelles looked TNG with the blue glow at the side, these are totally enclosed with a red (hopefully) bussard at the front. Much more TOS. Perhaps longer because less advanced.

I just cant get over the saucer section. It likes like the Star Wars Trade federation battle ship with the center pod comes off to land on a planet surfaces not a Star trek attribute.. I am torn on if i like it or not

Anybody else notice that the one ship looks a lot like the U. S. S. Enterprise N. C. C. 1701 - D?

Am I the only one actually liking the 2016 version more than the 2017 version?

they are definitely going "sports car" on the ships in this series, like they said

Honestly it is quite an improvement. It seems closer to the Enterprise era aesthetic than TOS. If I could make one change, it would be to replace the boxy, 3-Bussard nacelles with the skinnier, exposed-grill nacelles from Enterprise. At least then you could say it fit better. As-is it looks like a post-Enterprise ship kitbashed with movie-era nacelles.

This is turning into my favorite Star Trek ship ever.

The deflector looks like it has a battleship cannon stuck to it.

it looks pre-TNG in some pics but almost TOS in other pics

The deflector dish with the 'things' growing out of it looks bad.

nacelles looks like big targets. I guess the point is they're trying to get more speed. long engines, high speed and a long time at high warp for the era. I imagine it is a ship designed for science and exploration but then the Federation lose a bunch of their best ships, so they fit out this long range science ship with more weapons and better shields, etc.

Looks about the same size as the galaxy. Find it ironic that it's from an old design but has the enterprise J engines.

As diehard Trekkie, I have my doubts on this series. There are just way too many red flags...everything from Bryan Fullers departure to the licensing issues between the JJ verse and original timeline show, the fact its been pushed back several times and don't get me started with the fact that they actually want us to buy the streaming service in order to watch it...All that said, the internet rumor on these two from Trekyards is that they are both plants from the studio charged with creating these youtube spots, in an attempt to reel in the old school folks and at the same time, try to squelch all the negative criticism, which of course the studio despises...STD is obviously another reboot of the original series timeline... I'll watch the pilot...but refuse to purchase it...good luck, you are going to need it! LL&P