Grab the popcorn folks! You know when GP finds a way to make a 37 minute video about a product that’s supposed to simply “just work” we’re in a for a treat.

Love my Garmin RTL515! No need for 240 m - what you need is a radar you can trust - every time.

@MrVizzle

Ай бұрын

What are benefits of radar? Honest question, got mirror now and not sure what extra benefits would got from radar.

@nukeelec

Ай бұрын

@@MrVizzle You don't need to keep looking at mirror when you have radar. You can keep your eyes on the road ahead. When radar alerts you of an approaching vehicle by beeping head unit, you can then check your mirror. You will miss vehicles with only a mirror. My Garmin radar hasn't missed detecting a vehicle in the 2 years I've been using it. It's by far the best cycling accessory I've ever purchased.

@rwo5402

Ай бұрын

@@MrVizzle When the garmin radar first appeared I thought it was a gimmick. After having had the RTL515 for about a year I don't want to miss it. I also have a mirror but I don't check back all the time anymore. When my head unit shows clear I am 100% certain that there is no car approaching from behind. On a busy road it's not that useful but on a road with low or occasional traffic it's great to be warned of approaching traffic.

@meibing4912

Ай бұрын

@@MrVizzle To me there are two main additional benefits - it shows the speed from behind (so does not e.g. indicate cars that are going slower than yourself) which a mirror does not and you get an audible alert both when something is approaching and if it disappears. Less important but still an advantage is that it checks both sides, the mirror only “sees” to one side.

@meibing4912

Ай бұрын

@@MrVizzle forgot to add that the blinking light when a car closes in makes you much more visible to the cars coming up. Onkly a radar does that for you.

Not having the variable blinking when a car is detected is an absolute NO for me. It’s the defining feature I relish on my 515. Knowing a vehicle is back there sooner is great and all, but a disruptive pattern getting the attention of a texting driver is so much more important IMO

@meibing4912

Ай бұрын

Agree on the blinking function! My wife says she can spot me from far when driving.

@user-ed7pi2is6i

17 күн бұрын

How about running bench test in the city?

Came after eight hours sitting at school back home, made myself a good coffee, opened KZread and relaxed at 37 minutes of beeping radars when cars are passing. Love it.

Blinking the light when a car approaches is like the best feature of these radar lights...

@gplama

Ай бұрын

Agreed! Trek did mention they may look at a firmware update to allow this. At the moment they were confident enough with the visibility of the Flare flash/patterns to leave it as-is.

@stennan

Ай бұрын

@@gplama Also the "brake light" when sudden brakes slow down the bike is very helpful for the cars/bikes behind. That way they know to behave as if it was a car braking.

@rident

Ай бұрын

I like the brake light feature on the kryptonite incite lights too. Really nice on group rides!

@pulser955

Ай бұрын

I would argue the light on the Garmin units is totally useless in daylight. I don’t think drivers would even notice the light. Compared to the flare rt. The flare as vary noticeable in bright daylight from over a mile away. I was really hopping this radar was going to be good. I run the Garmin radar pod with no light and a flare RT. I want to go to one unit. But I just don’t think vary many tail lights are actually visible or noticeable to drivers.

@dcmkgo

Ай бұрын

I have RTL515 and Ion/FlareRT via other apps you can do stuff like brake light on the flare, along with time of day / dusk etc but the native Bontrager support in my experience is sketchy, the ANT+ is forever unpairing when you charge unattended and then light network getting corrupted.

Here I am, suffering through 37 minutes of radar testing! Love the drone shots :)

@gplama

Ай бұрын

Could be worse, Mrs Lama had to suffer through two weeks of me obsessing over this damn thing.... then I came home with another two of them and I even put one on her bike! 🤣

@BetterShifting

Ай бұрын

@@gplama 😅😅

@BetterShifting

Ай бұрын

I made it! Happy Saturday!

@ojtamno

Ай бұрын

GPLama, put the third one on Little Lama and let the detecting competition begin! "If you sth red on your bike computer, say RED" :D

Thanks for the review and the lengths you go to. I’m bike touring in Italy and I must say my Garmin radar has been very helpful, especially riding over the Cisa pass on a Sunday with so many reckless motorcyclists.

I appreciate the fact that you went deep into the weeds on this one. Hopefully Trek takes this feedback to make this product better.

Thank you for all your thorough testing. It's what I can always count on with your videos, but you've definitely out done yourself this time.

I would love to have been a fly on the wall during CarBack development meetings. How a company the size of Trek can bring to market a product with no changing light pattern, a substandard mount and a questionable range claim would make a fascinating case study.

Chapeau GPLama!! Best 37 mins of a product review.

Trying to choose Trek"s or Garmins"s You have done a very thorough review and you even gave Trek every chance to work as advertised. And it's easy. Garmin is the way to go. Great Job. And an enormous amount of work / time. Thank you. It's what the customers need... the truth!!! Bravo!!!!!! And shame on Trek. A bad time to try and peddle (no pun) a sub quality unit.

So glad you went through the effort on this. As someone who never leaves home without a radar, I was really hopeful for this to be a massive upgrade for radars. Unfortunately, it fails to deliver. So glad you do such detailed testing. Always love your videos.

Cheers, Lama! Super thorough and although not a Trek fan, I hope they figure it out to push the industry further. Love my RTL515. Also some of the passer-bys were a treat (Karen flipping you off, the Mad Max bucket, etc). Awesome job, mate.

Wow, this is one of the best, most extensive reviews I have ever seen! Thank you very much for your intense testing with all those scenarios and even showing them to us. Really well done!

Thanks for all the work on this Shane! I always appreciate your rigor!

Doing the hard work for us. Always appreciate you confirming we are buying what they’re selling.

What a test! Great one. I love my TREK Bike, and i love my Bryton Gardia, but nothing replace a shoulder check.(Except some rockets). Thanks for the Vid!

I admire your commitment and zealousness in pursue to put to the test various claims of bike gear manufacturers. it's unmatched. I salute you!

Listen! You are amazing! I'm just thinking about the amount of editing you've put into it! I salute you!

Amazing video, really great how much effort you put in this project. Thank you !

Good review. I have been looking at buying a radar and after seeing this I decided to go for a garmin. Thanks.

Perfect timing Shane - My trusted OG RTL510 gave up on me this weekend (lights ok, but radar not working with the Wahoo anymore) so in the market for a new radar - Looks like another Varia then. Thanks Shane for your steadfast and fair review. We salute you!

@cypis666

Ай бұрын

Wait a month or two maybe Garmin will release a new one with usb-c

@iancollins6104

Ай бұрын

Let the device go totally dead, then charge it to full. It may help.

@joeljurado6723

29 күн бұрын

Call Garmin customer service and let them know about your radar failure. Chances are, you'll get a free exchange. I did, and mine failed cause it dropped out of a cheap Amazon mount. They exchanged it anyways.

Loved the Ultimate Road Test section, great testing setup! Guess I'll grab a Varia now based on your vid and this comment section 😂

3 units to verify. I’d say your testing was far superior than Trek’s.

@rwo5402

Ай бұрын

Maybe they tested on Everest where the air is thinner or maybe on the ISS.

I like to keep checking out products even if I will not likely get them since 98% indoors on ZWIFT and the other 2% is on bike trail with ZERO cars , and a 8 to 15 mile bike doing duathlon with roads closed . Here in Florida , to many cars with people on cell phones, quality of the roads are poor on back roads which rarely ever get repaved . So riding out doors in Florida in 1985 compared to 2024 . Not enjoyable . Bike trail is protected state park . Same in 1996 1st ride to today . Thanks Shane still enjoy how detailed you are and u are worth my time .

Thanks to your video to show another option with better spec and cheaper cost. Glad to see a different product different from 24Ghz ...

Thank you for being thorough!

37 minutes, kudo to the grind. Editing this together would have taken 37 hours. Nice research Shane

Fantastic work Professor Llama.

Watched the whole thing and I appreciate it so much! Bike safety is my main concern with being a father of 3 (4th on the way). I can take chances with me, but not with my childrens dad.

Excellent detailed testing thanks GP Lama! Proper hats off to you for the time investment in this thorough testing. It gives really great insight into how these products compare. Thank you! Well done🎉

Kudos… That was alot of effort going into all that testing. Seems like something a large company should had done before they made claims and released a product.

Thanks for the excellent review!

Great review I’ve had Varia Radar since the technology was first purchased from South Africa by Garmin. I also wear a mirror and between the two safety features my rides are a lot more comfortable, safer and more enjoyable. With the radar I just take a full lane and get a smoother surface for those fantastic high speed downhills

You'd think a big company like Trek would know better than to over promise and under deliver. Great review as always, Shane. On a side note, aside from traffic being on the opposite side of the road, it's amazing how similar Australian suburbia is to Canadian suburbia.

Approaching the midway point of 2024 and I can honestly say I am at my radar test/review limit! Glad it was with GP tho! Great content! I’ll stick with my 515! As others have said, the blinking light is the must have!

Shane, nice job on this and your previous videos. I’m much more interested in the potential for long battery life. A common gripe in my group is short battery life of our Garmin radar units. It performs particularly bad in cold temps (0 C or below), with a typical duration of less than 3 hours. It would be great if your future tests included a cold temperature regime, which is pretty typical for year round commuters in northern countries.

Thank you for your service!

My Garmin Varia has been rock solid. Not sure I need all 240 meters. Plus the integration of my Varia with my Garmin headset has been flawless.

@beaudjangles

29 күн бұрын

Yeah, 140m is enough time to linger in the lane for a few seconds so that drivers approach a bit more cautiously before I retreat to the side as they inevitably close pass. Because if they're gonna close pass, may as well push them over a little bit and have space to bail.

@PureNRG2

29 күн бұрын

@@beaudjangles I haven’t had a ride yet where my Varia didn’t give me plenty of advance warning that I didn’t feel safe. It’s never missed a car and has had surprising accuracy detecting the exact number with multiple cars. Given Shane’s rigorous test review, I’m genuinely surprised that Trek released Car Back in an obviously half baked state. Given my experience with Garmin products in general, and unless something changes, I’ll be staying in the Garmin ecosystem.

@beaudjangles

28 күн бұрын

@@PureNRG2 Yeah, I've not had a false negative either. Pretty incredible. The other day though it fritzed out for a couple of seconds and disconnected and reconnected a couple of times in quick succession. That's the first question mark in months of riding.

Top job , that’s a massive effort to pull this together! Thanks Shane 👍👍 If the Garmin Varia had USB-C fast charging, it would be perfect.

@gplama

Ай бұрын

I can only assume they're working on a refresh to the RTL515 this season. It'll be an easy win for them to update it with USB-C fast-charge and maybe.. just maaaaaaybe.. a little bigger battery.

@mechpatt

Ай бұрын

@@gplama yes, battery life is pretty short!

Bravo! I'm a former software quality assurance nerd, so I appreciate actually quantifying the performance. I have the Varia and want to get one for my GF as she plans to start riding to work. Based on this, I'll get her a Varia, too.

I love the thorough testing of the range as well as the thoughtfulness about side to side range and speed differential

Interesting testing. I own 2 CarBacks and 2 Garmins for my 4 Trek bikes. For the unprotected city riding I do, the performance seems about the same. I use the Blendr saddle mount btacket on the 2 CarBacks, which is a great, but proprietary, solid mount and the main thing that swayed me to them. I do appreciate the narrower spread and the battery level display as well. Bottom line, though, is just get a radar... any radar to improve riding safety.

Perfect timing Shane, I was considering this to replace my aging Varia. Now I'm not so sure.

Thank you for those testing! OMG, can't understood why the narrower beam. You have multiple lines, cars overtaking each others, tilting bikes, corners, terrible mount that let slip the radar... all those situation could be alleviate with a wider beam. It's true that if narrower should travel longer (at same energy) but detection & consistency are a must for this device. In a few cases in your testing cars aren't detected till 70 meters 🤦‍♂ The cheaper Magene that I'm using looks better than € 200 of unreliability

Great bit of work great video

I appreciate your efforts very much

Thanks for the testing and video, I'm actively looking for a replacement for just the radar. I've had too many failures for me on the Garmin RTL515 and I've already lost confidence in that unit + I didn't hear much better about their camera combo (+ I like my Fly6s) . I guess it's back to relying on my supersonic ears and spider senses.

That drone testing idea is genius 👏

GPLama truly the Marques Brownlee for us Cyclist! Meant that as a compliment :)

@mechpatt

Ай бұрын

That is indeed a compliment!

My Garmin RTL515 is just amazing. I feel so much safer and informed about what's happening behind me. I ride with ear buds, so I like turning head unit tones off, but using the Garmin app in the background on my phone so that I can still hear notifications. Just incredible

You still have to look back when on the road, especially when you have to change lanes to turn. I've been cycling for over 40 years, I find these really unnecessary, (although I have the garmin, lol), but really, the reaction time is not consistent or quick enough on certain roads. As usual Shane, Great product review and testing!

I did like that it has a battery indicator on the side, but reliability of alert is king.

As a data scientist and cyclist I love the detail of this video ! So so good

I'm still hoping that we will get more camera radar light units that record sound too.

This was a very thorough video...but tbh I just watched the last few minutes...Varia for the win

Shane that was really helpful thank you :) Which Garmin head unit was that you were using ?

Great review and well constructed testing leaving no room for doubts. Also, are you able to review SENA intercoms either add-ons to helmets or integrated with the helmet?

Excellent review! I was thinking about buying one unit but after seeing your work I had a lot of doubts and I won't do it. It's a shame because I've always had a lot of trust in the TREK brand.

@gplama

Ай бұрын

I’ll do a follow up if anything changes in the future. I hope they can assess this testing (and do their own) and release some refinements/improvements.

Great review Shane. Personally I think a gamechanger radar would be one that can detect vehicle mass - i.e. motorbike, car, truck/bus and show accordingly.

Thanks for the video and work done to compare. Quick questions; which Garmin do you have as an overlay on the screen? What software are you using to overlay the multiple footage? Thanks!

Thanks for the great review. As someone who has just got back into road cycling and is looking at getting a radar, this review provided some great information for me to go over.

Now that’s what I call a review. Great work. And I’m laughing with you at that driver salute - don’t you just love humans?

I've been using radar since the first gen Garmin. I also ALWAYS have supplemented with a bar end RVM.

A good old nerd deep dive. I’m all in for it!

What in the Mad Max am I looking at 15:36 into the review lol

@gplama

Ай бұрын

hahahah! 'Straya! That's a ute with a bullbar... maybe a roo bar.

@mountainmusic77

Ай бұрын

@@gplama Thanks, I was about to ask the same thing. Had to look up 'straya' and 'ute' but I still have questions. :)

@galenkehler

Ай бұрын

Those whiskers sticking up are to try and deter the magpies from swooping and taking out your windows

@splashpit

22 күн бұрын

@@galenkehlerstill won’t stop them from ripping the roof off your car

The most amazing thing about this review? Ballarat in May with sunshine and blue skies! Lol

thumbs up for your scientific approach

I hope the second iteration of the carback fixes some of these issues or sets the expectations better. I would love a blendr compatible radar.

The distance I get from my Varia is perfectly adequate. And it works 100% of the time. 240 m seems unnecessary. The change in light pattern is an essential feature IMHO.

@MichalBrat

29 күн бұрын

I agree. Now if it only had USB-C and I would ask for nothing more, Varia is surprisingly close to "perfection" from my standpoint.

@lf1980

29 күн бұрын

That's assuming you see or hear the car notification straight away. Longer would be better, especially for those of us that don't want to be glued to the display.

@stuartdryer1352

28 күн бұрын

@lf1980 if the sound notification is loud enough, I'm OK with the Varia. The distance it can see is more than enough. On a Garmin head unit the notification is loud enough. However, I tried an Igs630. I couldn't hear the signal, a deal killer. I returned it. As you say, we definitely don't want eyes glued to the screen!

I use the changing light pattern on my Garmin 515, that is the bigger miss for me with the CarBack. This situation reminds me of the the obnoxious "Cycling's most important" WaveCel release about 5 years ago. The marketing team seems to be a little to narcissistic for my tastes. I'm a pretty big fan of Trek, and I have a lot of good things to say. At least the radar (and the helmet) appear to be good usable products. Too bad they feel the need to be bombastic about it. Thank you for the video.

I was actually thinking lane detection would be great at the start of this vid..and then you said it had it. Sure maybe Gen 1 lane detection...but this would be AMAZING too. knowing if a car on a dual lane hwy is driving in the closest or furthest is really handy in understanding driver attitude. or having different style dots for those that are giving space and those that aren't. Circle for space, cross for close passing? Something other than colour given colour doesn't always show well in daylight. Follow up...being able to select what range is safe or not would be great too given different countries have different laws and different people have different comfort zones. Follow follow up...having the comfort zone/space automatically increase based on car speed would also be great. Given going 40kmh doesn't need/warrant as much space as a car going 80-100kmh. Hopefully in time they can finesse this.

Dang! Trek needs to head back to the drawing board. Thanks for the extensive testing. I'm sticking with the Varia.

@gplama

Ай бұрын

I can see what they were trying to do with it. Provide a longer range, less radar beam width for more 'accuracy'... but out on the road the results weren't as expected.

In car speed camera detectors - in the UK, drivers are permitted to have a speed radar detecting device, do you know if the Garmin/other radar units use the same technology? EG would a varia trigger a driver's speed camera detector?

Good to see Trek at least doing a conference call with you and identifying some bugs.

@gplama

Ай бұрын

Yep. It was good they responded. I wasn't on any of the pre-seed media lists though. Given the amount of radar content I've done over the years, it would have been nice to at least know this was coming. The standard media made a total mess of the reviews too.

Also wondering if the higher frequency on the Trek radar can see through fog/snowfall as well as the older units

excellent video as usual

@gplama

Ай бұрын

Thanks! There were a few things I could have put more polish on... but it was a 35GB video in the end and I needed to get this out there and put some space between me and this product. Preferably more than 240m. :)

excellent video......!

impressive in-depth test! Thank you this will help me a great deal in jmaking a solid decision, as I am planning to buy such a device. Unluckily I may not use a flashlight in Germany, when it is attached to the bike. I may use it, when it would be attached to my clothing or backpack. Isn't this crazy?

I found similar reading but with one scenario that was even more concerning. In our group ride on a clear day if I was off the front the radar ap read the ten guys behind me as a vehicle and chirped its warning. Also after two hours the ap froze up and even rebooting the ap and the unit did not unfreeze it until I rode the next day ( the unit still had fifty percent battery life when it froze )

Just would like to give The Mount the benefit of the doubt; Trek being Trek (all things proprietary), I think they designed the mount mainly to use with Trek’s aero / d-shaped seat post / seat mast / seat topper hence why I wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows on a non-Trek bike

On the plus side, perhaps this will motivate the competition to get better.

Will be sticking with the Garmin. Wondering if marketing department also did the testing.

Un lujo de análisis

nobody can beat the slick look of Garmin Varia

@gplama

Ай бұрын

The RTL500 had a face only a mother could love though. 😉

Superb review, as always. The truth will out, as Shakespeare said. For now, the Varia still rules the day.

Great review, can you add the Magene Radar Tail Light to the next comparison. Almost half the price, but how does the performance compare?

@gplama

29 күн бұрын

It's similar to the Varia. I'm done testing the CarBack for now. Way too much time spent on a single device.

As others have said...had to do a double-take on the length! This is gonna be good.

@gplama

Ай бұрын

Use the chapters to jump ahead. There’s a lot to cover.

23:00: those within 1s range: can it be due to reduced pulse frequency to 1/s in "no traffic conditions"?

A couple of questions… - Is the Trek mount compatible with Garmin quarter turn mounts? - What is the Trek battery life with radar + flashing (not solid) lights on?

I love these independent reviews... busting marketing hype!

Maybe tested where the cars are all giant SUVs and such, heh. Definitely one to go back to the drawing board, that narrower beam looks like a big issue too...

What is your Garmin layout? The map on top. Wind and other information at the bottom. Thank you in advance

Geez. This new Trek light is a BRICK! Also, the fact that you can't change the setting to blink is also Trash. The Bontrager Flare is better. You can see the flare flashing from a pretty good distance.

Love you work, random one - the bluetooth symbol on your wind connect iq app (timestamp (9:48) is this for when an update/phone connection is being active?

@windfieldapp

Ай бұрын

That’s the error icon when the Bluetooth / garmin connect connection drops out. Usually it comes back in a few seconds

@Barney_NZ

Ай бұрын

@@windfieldapp Hero - thanks for that snappy reply

Well I got sucked in by the marketing. I bought it for 2 reasons, the increased detection range and the smaller (re. height) form factor. It's disappointing to see that the 240 meter detection range only exists in the minds of the marketing people. Other than that the unit has worked without issues.

Mmh I wonder what overlay you show in the corner on garmin. Is that one that is avaible through garmin connect?

It seems to me, having admittedly never used a bike radar myself, as if these radars are way too inaccuracy to be as useful as I thought they would be. And not just because of the range, or lack of range, but because those dots are not giving a very accurate picture of where the cars are relative to you. On several occasions I noticed the cars passing before the dot caught up with the radar, and a couple of times it was the other way around, which means all you really know is that cars are coming, and some rough estimation of when they will pass you. This being the case I feel you get a lot more value from a small mirror either on e.g. your helmet.

@gplama

Ай бұрын

Most of the time the alert itself is all that’s needed. ‘Something is back’ is simple and easy to interpret. A lot of the additional information becomes overload.

Hi. What's the name of the Addon that you use in your Garmin (shows Wind, cadence, power, etc) min 9:22?