Being offended is rarely a good argument for anything, or is it ever?

@WilliamsWorldView

5 жыл бұрын

Way too often 'being offended' is a choice. And yes, I am referring to the SJW movement. I believe that 'Although all humans are different, we should all be awarded equal value, and we should all be treated as equals". Each of us can look at others and disagree, being offended when people don't agree with you, is not constructive. Being offended when people cross lines of decency, is a whole different matter.

@ishmaelkelly6686

5 жыл бұрын

@@WilliamsWorldView I'm sorry but that's just not how the real world works. We live in a country and a world that constantly judges people. we judges each other from financial status, the color of our skin, sex or orientation yes even by our personally . in general it's a sad thing to say that but that's the real world for you.

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

@@WilliamsWorldView The ones most likely to be offended over anything are the ones you never call SJW: alt right and the rightwing conservative christian.

@AxelLaw

5 жыл бұрын

@@markhackett2302 Truth.

@maskedathiest

5 жыл бұрын

yep. seems their own personal opinion and feelings are getting in the way of an opportunity to have a discussion with someone who may have been looking for someone to talk to. it almost seemed like an atheist called into a theist show for this one. their own belief got in the way.

When all you can do is call people names, you do not have a defendable position.

I love how clay got defeated so easily in this. He didn't want to listen he didn't want to actually argue the facts he just wanted to say that transgenders aren't real and that he knows everything and that the hosts don't know anything. Then when they called him out on his bulshit called him ignorant for his position and said he was a bigot he got really defensive and angry. And instead of proving that he's none of those things he went right into the argument proving that he's all of those things in one

@kyleepratt

Ай бұрын

I know, pretending "oh yeah, isn't just X or Y?" to 2 folks who obviously know more than you... It's just silly. Like read Wikipedia on fender expression in humans. At least learn there are more genes involved than just that one chromosome...

"Reddit is a great forum." And like that, I'm choking.

@JohnnyNada

5 ай бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Lol you called him Claire twice 🤣

Not a good topic to address with such a limited timeframe.

This may be the most polarized discussion in the comments that I've seen for this show and it's not even necessarily about the subject matter. I watched this when it originally streamed and felt it was far from a good example of Jamie or Matt's ability to argue with even the most vitriolic callers. Both hosts start to utter what seems like may have become decent arguments such as differentiating biology from psychology or Matt's "I kind of understand", though they never get to flesh these out. I felt it was a bit of a missed opportunity for a good discussion, even if the discussion was between the hosts and a muted caller, possibly due to their need to wrap up the show. Now the clip pops up in my queue and I see I was not the only one who thought this. Why is this THE topic that causes people to be unable to argue in a civil, coherent manner? Even if good points are made, it is near universally combined with name calling and a constant use of some version of the phrase "you are just wrong" which is like poison to any well formed argument. The comments are like a mirror of the video itself with many attempting to snuff out arguments as quickly as possible, insulting the other side without making any points or attempting to understand why there is even a disagreement. The difference between Matt Dillahunty and some random asshole on the internet is that he, more often than not, provides solid support for his arguments in conjunction with calling someone a moron! Isn't one of the caller's poorly constructed points that if we consider ourselves skeptics we shouldn't "just go along with" what we're being told by others? How can we possibly do that if we can't even talk about a topic there is ANY level of disagreement upon? Does it even matter at all what the topic is in how we should approach these things if we ever want to come to an agreement or understand one another? Most of the arguing here is whether they handled this caller well and people are STILL being called snowflakes, SJWs and bigots! Maybe they would have supported their case better if there was more time for the call. I don't know what excuse the commenters here have.

@markhackett2302

4 жыл бұрын

There was nothing from the caller, and the call-in is neither for proselytizing nor for unhinged transphobic rants.

@markhackett2302

4 жыл бұрын

@owleyes Malignaggi No, it's like people who are morons and have nothing other than hatred for their assertions don't deserve to have their lunatic rants given airtime. YOU anti-trans morons have no valid argument other than "I don't know what gender is, all I know is what it used to be defined as!!!!!".

@markhackett2302

4 жыл бұрын

@owleyes Malignaggi You are either deluded or lied to and ignorant of reality because there is no law requiring you to use certain pronouns for trans people.

@TheSnoeedog

Жыл бұрын

I don't know about "you are just wrong," but I'm a huge fan of "pick up a fucking book and learn to read, you ignorant bigot...." or suggesting that they spell remarkably well for an ill-tempered, misshapen inbred miscreant. *NB* - "YOU ARE JUST WRONG" is completely appropriate when it is in fact the case.

@mariomiceli9663

Жыл бұрын

They resort to name calling because trans ideology is indefinsible nonsense that is not based in reality, it actually completely ignores reality and contradicts it. Much like the religions this show stand against. Apparently they found their own religion.

I believe the comment the caller was trying to make, before they kept shouting him down is, that he is an athiest, but the way that they are not applying any skepticism to the transgender issue they might as well be Christian. He was pointing out the hypocrisy they have where if someone claims there is a god they use logic, reason, and science, but when someone born a man says he is a woman they agree despite science showing the opposite. He was not saying trans people don't exist, he was saying he doesn't agree that they are the sex they claim to be.

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

You need to research the trans thing, because you have not researched it, only listened to the religious and rightwing dogma on the subject. The caller likewise had nothing other than dogma.

@danhendricks5896

5 жыл бұрын

@@markhackett2302 that's a dumb response. I, like the caller, am an athiest. So I am not listening to a bunch of religious dogma. Your response is classic SJW, calling people bigots or in your case ignorant without actually saying why we are wrong.

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

@@danhendricks5896 Ah, the idiotic rightwingnutjob: everything is SJW. Wrong.

@danhendricks5896

5 жыл бұрын

@@markhackett2302 dude you just proved my point again. Calling me an idiot and right wing nut job without saying why I am wrong.

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

@Little Bit The genetic sex isn't just "XY=penis=man". You have androgen insensitivity and estrogen insensitivity that screws THAT up. It's like tossing a handful of rice a little up in the air with each hand. They'll generally land in small piles next to each other, but there will be some rice that bounces joyfully off others and land a long way from the others, falling even into the other pile.

This was the most pathetic clip I've ever seen. Rather than answering to the effect of; I think you're mistaken for reasons X,Y and Z and that my position is correct for reasons A, B, and C, you threw a tantrum, did grandstanding and showed off how outraged you are. Him asking you was him doing research and you gave him nothing but whiny crap. When a theist phones in you have the decency to not grandstand and virtue signal about how much you disagree and just answer the damn argument.

@ThreeTrillionTrees

5 жыл бұрын

This has always been the approach on talk heathen when it comes to trans questions. Tell the caller that they are ignorant, roll eyes at any beliefs, claim being insulted while cursing at the caller and then hang up on them. It's disappointing that the people who won't let theists presume a God exists constantly presume their stance on LGBT issues is correct without doing the real activism of educating ignorance.

@stopscammingman

5 жыл бұрын

@Little Bit And doing NOTHING TO CONVINCE HIM OTHERWISE??? Lets run with this logic, if a person calls in with controversial views about Muslims, they should do nothing to dissuade the person and those watching that think like him or her, but give off outraged bluster, because hey, there's all those people that want a Muslim ban, support Muslims being profiled, there are armed vigilante patrols outside Mosques, mass shootings at Mosques and according to the CIA estimate; 3 million Muslims in gulags in China. Though of course none that means such a stupid response is in order! " they are talking about REAL HUMAN BEINGS" OMG REALLY??? I thought this was a debate about Game of Thrones Characters. Its perfectly normal to debate issues affecting marginalised groups without a useless tantrum, which to my mind was more about virtue signalling than sincere outrage. "...AND who's existence is even being debated about..." Or is it just their identity that's being debated, however important that is?

@ThreeTrillionTrees

5 жыл бұрын

@Little Bit There's no reason to assume the caller did anything to strip these people's rights away and dismissing a potential constructive conversation, silencing others' opinions, and insulting them while claiming to be offended by a differing opinion is weak shit.

@ThreeTrillionTrees

5 жыл бұрын

@Little Bit if I want to create a new social norm that requires people to change their previously held social norms then the least I would expect to do is explain my reasoning to someone. Claiming that others are intolerant for not accepting my views and expecting them to do their own research is unreasonable.

@turdferguson3400

5 жыл бұрын

@@stopscammingman you see, this is a pressing issue, so it is natural to act like it's a pressing issue. I don't understand why it's so hard for some people to understand that the reason we treat people as men and women is not their genitals and their chromosomes, but rather their actions and behaviors. If you act like a woman, I will treat you as a woman, and if you act like a man, I will treat you as a man. I don't care what your chromosomes look like.

The caller wasn't being agressive. You guys were being a holes.

@willoweable

7 ай бұрын

But the caller was wrong?....

@JohnnyNada

5 ай бұрын

​@@willoweableno??

@willoweable

5 ай бұрын

@@JohnnyNada yeah????

@elibonham4388

2 ай бұрын

​@@willoweableno and even if he was they dont have to use such vulgar language its unpleasent to listen too

@willoweable

2 ай бұрын

@@elibonham4388 actually they do. It's their show. They can do whatever they want. Also how was the caller not wrong?????

Matt is giving very emotional response to the caller cause he him self has a trans wife actually.

Soo. No one actually explained the whole thing

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

The whole thing is an unlimited concept, so not explaining the whole thing doesn't mean one thing that isn't the whole thing wasn't explained. Any definition of male and female will not cover everyone under a mutulally exclusive definition. So there will always be people who match either under both male and female OR falls under neither. Proving that there is a transgender.

@robngy8204

5 жыл бұрын

@@markhackett2302 unlimited is a big word of space

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

@@robngy8204 that post was short thing of word.

@robngy8204

5 жыл бұрын

@@markhackett2302 I find it interesting and corporate controlling on how much they are monitored on this subject through the show

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

@@robngy8204 Yes, you find things interesting when you think you can work out someone you disagree with might be claimed to be bad. You weren't explained "the whole thing" because even when I explained it to you, you did not listen or even notice.

We can’t get offended and start cursing and accusing when people disagree on this topic. We have to patiently listen and try to help people understand. He’s even more ingrained in his stance now because all that happened was arguing on both sides.

@joethestrat

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Well said.

@jonnaking3054

2 жыл бұрын

Transphobes should just be cast out of society and treated as outcasts, sorry I have a low tolerance for transphobes

@cambriaofthevastoceans6721

Жыл бұрын

Doubt

@DadeMurphie

11 ай бұрын

Have you considered you're the one that needs to understand?

@jaronfeld123

9 ай бұрын

Nah, the research is out there clearly for anyone interested in the topic. There’s no benefit to being patient with people who want to be bigots

You guys jumped on him too heavy too quick. Taking it easier would have helped bring out his thinking flaws. Or even some good point he might have.

@DeedlyDood

5 жыл бұрын

Disagree. He flatout showed how ignorant he was. Someone that deep into it needs a hard nudge, not a gentle push.

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@@DeedlyDood that's why they're supposed to educate people on RATIONALITY. I mean isnt that what they do to Christians? The only reason why they battle Christians is because they use the bible. Clay was using scientific reference. Like they do to Christians.

@zacharyshort384

5 жыл бұрын

@@litozway617 He said "the transgender movement", "it's not real", and "it's the same as me saying i'm a dog". So far the caller said absolutely nothing that would qualify as scientific references. If you think statements like that is scientific or even that it qualifies as referencing a scientific source we could use to verify a position, you are widely wrong. The only thing he said that could be remotely construed as 'scientific' was the question "are you born with an XX or an XY chromosome?". Suggesting it can only be those two is not what the science on the matter says. Since you're interested in references; here is one: "Humans are born with 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs. The X and Y chromosomes determine a person’s sex. Most women are 46XX and most men are 46XY. Research suggests, however, that in a few births per thousand some individuals will be born with a single sex chromosome (45X or 45Y) (sex monosomies) and some with three or more sex chromosomes (47XXX, 47XYY or 47XXY, etc.) (sex polysomies). In addition, some males are born 46XX due to the translocation of a tiny section of the sex determining region of the Y chromosome. Similarly some females are also born 46XY due to mutations in the Y chromosome. *Clearly, there are not only females who are XX and males who are XY, but rather, there is a range of chromosome complements, hormone balances, and phenotypic variations that determine sex* ." www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@@zacharyshort384 he never said it wasn't real. Lol he knows it's there. He just doesnt agree that they should be deemed real women or compete with them because of that. Just like I know christianity is real , I just dont agree it should be deemed as truth.

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

Also... what you just said in a nut shell is ... theres xx and xy ... the rest are MUTATIONS. And I think then we should just have a trans league till we do proper tests to determine the advantage a trans woman can have over a cis woman.

What a poor example of what these two, normally, critical thinking atheists are capable of. Share your knowledge like you do with every other subject and stop being so offended that conversation cannot be made. If we, as atheists, acted in the same way when people questioned our lack of belief, can you imagine the shit show? Quite hypocritical.

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

Tell me, did the argument they made offend you?

@leonebersbacher3609

5 жыл бұрын

@@markhackett2302 It's less about wether or not you got offended. It's about how you handle the situation. In the videos case it was by shutting down dialogue.

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

@@leonebersbacher3609 There was no dialogue. A dialogue requires BOTH parties to be engaged. The insane twat on the phone was never engaged in anything other than spewing hatred at an "other" that scared them shitless.

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

@@MattSingh1 What an ignorant prick you are, you arrogant swine. Trans have rights. The declaration of human rights say so: created equal. You ARE a bigot. Because you are bigoted and say so quite clearly. EVERY bigot thinks their bigotry "justified" because you're idiots.

@berkeleyblue4247

5 жыл бұрын

Mark Hackett You do recognise that alling people assholes, idots and morons, doesn’t get you anywhere right?

His last question was actually: "Why don't we use the same skeptical thinking to transgenderisme as we do to Christianity?" While the actual question got touched a few times here and there, I would like to highlight one point that I find interesting in this matter. The god claim of the Christian changes the way the physical world works arrounds me due to it's many supernatural events and consequential nature. When a person claims they identify as a male or female, opposite of their born gender, it does not. It might make me use one, or even a few, different words in a sentence, but it in no way claims something about me or the physical world we alle experience. While Christianity claims I, and the universe I live in, were created. And that the creator, and his son Jesus, love me very much, but not if I don't accept jesus in my heart before I die. Because then I go to hell to burn for all eternity. A to me, fairly important, difference (and certainly not the only one) between Christianity and transgenderisme when it comes to why my 'skeptical senses' goes on high alert for one and less to none for the other. The weight a (truth) claim holds to yourself and, more importantly, the physical world arround you makes a difference. While we must be aware of, and skeptical of, social constructs, I personally don't feel trans gender personal claims are a problem of any sort.

@mertonhirsch4734

7 ай бұрын

"When a person claims they identify as a male or female, opposite of their born gender, it does not." but be careful, a) Modern psychology doesn't accept that people have a "born gender". Or does it? b) Modern psychology next said that transgenderism meant that your sex and gender were trans-aligned to each other, but then changed the model to hold that c) a transgender MAN is not a "real" man, and a "real" male, and a transgender woman is now a "real woman" and a "real female", so there is nothing trans-aligned at all, which means a transgender man is cis aligned and a transgender woman is cis aligned and it is only the "wrong" sex that they were identified as at birth that is trans to their true sex AND gender. Liberal psychologists have gotten into trouble because the definitions keep changing. On top of that, the statistics on transgender detransitioning rates, (now referred to as desistance), used to consider anyone who had personally identified as transgender to have been a real transgender case, and anyone who identified as having detransitioned as having been a real detransitioning case. Using those definitions, the 10 year desistence rate was 68%, and 70% for teens, and 80% for teens who had been identified as female at birth. NOW if you consider yourself to have transitioned, whether on your own or with psychological counselling, you are put in the transgender category UNLESS you detransition, and had not received a diagnosis and counselling. The push is to require 18 months to 2 years of counselling. So anyone who identifies as trans, and who identifies later as having detransitioned was abjectly WRONG in their tranasgender identification despite their personal affirmation. This, combined with the fact that 90% of people who identify as transgender transitioned within the last 10 years has brought the official desistence rate down to circa 10%. As a scientist, the active redefining and reclassification to meet an agenda angers me and I understand what Dawkins is feeling about the issue.

@heldinahtmlhell

4 ай бұрын

Lol. Believing a man is a woman, or vice versa, absolutely changes the way the physical world works around you. It denies and subverts what's right in front of your very eyes. More so than believing in a God does. Because you can't disprove the existence of a God. You can prove that a man is a man. It's irrelevant what you personally believe, you're factually, objectively and scientifically wrong and delusional.

@IntergalacticDrifter

3 ай бұрын

The transgender dogma, which is 100% semantic, is being used to justify sterilization of children, the ruining of women's sports, creepy men in women's bathrooms, and limitations on speech. The right did not care about this issue until we had to. Now we have to talk about whether men really can be women. We did not ask for this.

@thunkjunk

Ай бұрын

You have an interesting take on that. I find that trans ideology is part of a way of thinking far far worse than Christianity is today. Sure, religion was pretty bad back in Medieval times, and of course Islam is currently a problem, but then it was the only game in town. But since the European Renaissance and the Enlightenment, Modernity and Religion have evolved together. For instance, we can have a logical debate about theism and atheism. Trans ideology comes from POSTMODERN thinking which is anti-Enlightenment and ultimately anti-American.

Say "fuck" with a sneer, and call the guy a bigot. Great argument, Matt.

@Jonny0Colorado

2 жыл бұрын

He’s a clown. Satan is now his daddy.

@rs72098

5 ай бұрын

Yeah he's such an intellectual according to all the militant atheists.😂 What a joke.

@willoweable

2 ай бұрын

He's not wrong though

The point he was making with the dog example was just because some one says I’m a man or I’m a tree or I’m a dog doesn’t matter what it is. It does not make them that thing they claim to be. If I say I’m a woman, it does not make me a woman just because I ‘feel’ like I am. Come on. Caller got both of you guys

@thatbitch3254

4 жыл бұрын

No he didn't because those are physically impossible, and there is no valid scientific or psychological construsct that allows construct of 'species dysphoria'. However gender dysphoria is an actual real thing, and is supported by evidence.

@Brynnthebookworm

9 ай бұрын

Ok, but when you say you are a man, what in your opinion proves that to be true other than your feelings? If you say your chromosomes or your genitals then you are wrong, because those are characteristics of sex and not gender.

I’m kind of with the caller here. I don’t accept that gender is different than sex, and no one has shared convincing evidence to the contrary.

@kitkat8265

5 жыл бұрын

30 plus research papers on MRI research on the transgender brain responding to stimuli and processing it like the gender the person claims to be.

@tomhofmeister3246

5 жыл бұрын

KitKat please name or share your source

@sandsmarc

5 жыл бұрын

KitKat There is no conclusive evidence to back up what you are claiming. What causes this illness is still unknown. The conclusion from the article I will cite below: “For now, as is the case for many aspects of human experience, the neural mechanisms underlying gender remain largely mysterious. While researchers have documented some differences between cis- and transgender people’s brains, a definitive neural signature of gender has yet to be found-and perhaps it never will be. But with the availability of an increasingly powerful arsenal of neuroimaging, genomic, and other tools, researchers are bound to gain more insight into this fundamental facet of identity. “ Article: www.the-scientist.com/features/are-the-brains-of-transgender-people-different-from-those-of-cisgender-people-30027

@kitkat8265

5 жыл бұрын

@@tomhofmeister3246 Hi Tom I sadly it seems I didn't bookmark the website with the thirty plus links that also debunked the chromosome myth amongst many other reasons given to debunked transgenderism. Googling Trans along with endocrinology and MRI with plenty of cross referencing will yield results. My comment earlier was brief as I was in a hurry. Perhaps you have already encountered these. I response to the other replies left by others I never claimed conclusiveness. However evidence is growing yearly that this is not like many nay sayers claim a form of mental delusion being encouraged like I suspect this caller is. Of course whilst researching one must be aware of older debunked scientific claims made be the likes of Hopkins whose staff have a known religious biases to the LGBT community as a whole. It is not as larger mystery as it might appear to be there are two promising theories genetics and the two separate hormonal stages in pregnancy. Those being the cerebral and gonadal. Even so the best course of action still is for the person to transition and be accepted and respected as the gender they claim to be until such time as our understanding improves. The caller was using out if date scientific research and comparing the transgender issue to religion and the harm religion can do politically which is a false equivocation. I also feel the hosts could have responded better and more informatively. I appreciate people making efforts to learn before forming an opinion but sadly those that are commenting on lack of conclusiveness are giving the impression there minds are made up before a conclusion is reach this is due to a lack of empathy and sensitivity in there haste to reply to others comments. Even if they are sensitive and would respect a transgender person the way they comment only serves to fuel those that are actively bigoted towards transgender people which is a shame. Given the deaths and suicides, anxiety and depression caused to transgender people as a result.

@tomhofmeister3246

5 жыл бұрын

sandsmarc thank you so much for the link. I read half of it and will attempt to dive in deeper after work.

I'm very disappointed with the way you handled this call. I understand you might get annoyed with religious irrationality and persistence in mantaining one's position without evidence. But what you just did was yelling and cussing over this guy right from the start merely for expressing his opinion on transgenderism. Neither he nor you offered any arguments, any evidence or any usefull information for that matter. BTW you lost a great opportunity of adressing Stephen Woodford controversy to which I suppose he was refering. With this kind of skepticism I am not impressed.

@Vivi2372

5 жыл бұрын

They explained exactly why they thought he was wrong and encouraged him to do more research about transgenderism and only stopped bothering with him when it became clear he didn't want to actually be rational and exercise skepticism about his own beliefs. He came in with a preconceived idea that he just wanted to bludgeon people with without ever making a sound argument. They are not required to give bigots who refuse to critically examine their own beliefs a platform.

@LeBartoshe

5 жыл бұрын

​@@Vivi2372 Well, in most of the shows I've seen hosts knew how to remain rational rather than getting emotional and cussing over the caller from the very beginning. They knew how to play it cool and that was why these shows were attracting people and were thriving. They didn't have to embarrass callers because callers would do that on their own by just stating their wicked opinions. And it appears to me as a much better approach to deal with this kind of people than 'refusing them a platform'. Getting offended, calling someone a 'bigot' and 'deplatforming' them doesn't solve a problem, doesn't help anybody, doesn't improve anything and doesn't get us anywhere. I'll just add that I have seen many clips from Atheist Experience and Talk Heathen and I do not recall any caller without preconceived ideas and the caller in question did not make his argument because he was not even allowed to. They just heard that he is anti-transgender and they didn't like it so they hung up on him. And that's why I am not impressed - if you don't allow someone to make their case, there is no place for critical thinking and skepticism from your side and therefore the whole conversation becomes futile. You have to actually listen to the other side in order to be able to criticise them.

@Vivi2372

5 жыл бұрын

@@LeBartoshe calling someone a bigot when they engage in bigoted behaviour is a statement of fact. If someone doesn't want to be referred to as a bigot they can change their behaviour. They did give him a chance to make his case and he had no argument. I suspect you may just be seeing their reaction is more negative and hateful than it actually was because you feel similarly to the caller. I suggest you rewatch the video because you're attributing far more reasonableness to the caller than he actually displayed. He had no argument. He had no reasoning. And he wasn't going to get there with more time to talk. He tried to couch his bigotry in some fancy words so he could pretend he was being reasonable but it all just boiled down to "being transgender isn't a thing." There was no discussion to be had with a person like that and you're either deluding yourself or you're offended because you feel similarly to him and are equally wrong.

@LeBartoshe

5 жыл бұрын

@@Vivi2372 And there we go, more babble... That was very rich of you to paint me with the same brush as that caller, especially given the fact that I did not offer my opinion on this subject. But well, I guess it's quite simple for you - who is not with us is a bigot against us. I kind of pity you though if you call everybody who doesn't agree with you a bigot, that must be really empty and boring life to live with this attitude.

@Vivi2372

5 жыл бұрын

@@LeBartoshe if you think I call anyone who doesn't agree with me a bigot then you didn't understand my comments at all. I shouldn't be terribly surprised given you thought that fellow actually had an argument though.

You found something else to be religious about~

@stasi9949

4 жыл бұрын

I agree. The caller is defending his bigotry (or at least his ignorance on the subject of gender dysphoria) to an almost religious level.

@furtivedolus2504

4 жыл бұрын

@@stasi9949 The host was acting like a religious nut talking to an apostate or a heretic. There was no rational dialog coming out of him.

@sark4786

4 жыл бұрын

@@furtivedolus2504 exactly right

@LibertyFascism

4 ай бұрын

@@stasi9949, Matt just angrily asserts this stupid dogma. He acts just like a religious fanatic.

@heldinahtmlhell

4 ай бұрын

Religiously defends basic biology and science lol.@@stasi9949

6:55 Agressive? How??? Just bringing up this issue makes these people lose their fucking minds and their skepticism and rationality goes out the window.

Once again. Is ACA being held hostage? I have never before seen anything like this "I am advised not to pick up your call again". This seems really helpful to fight the ignorance... Until then, decent response.

@matejbrada5211

5 жыл бұрын

​@Little Bit I can understand that. In a different comment, I have mentioned this. However Matt himself said many times that these talks with Theists are important, because even though it's unlikely to convince a caller on the spot, these cases accumulate. And on the third/fourth/nth time the caller will see/hear the counterarguments to him, he will be much more likely to "convert" (if you will). Also, the same argument as you put forward applies to pretty much all the theist callers they get on the show. Just how many times have you heard argument from morality, or the transcendental argument for god. And yet for these arguments, the people on the show take time to go through them and point out where they go wrong. I agree that with the later shows, the hosts tend to get irritated faster (most probably due to what you outlined above), but still go through more details than "no, you are wrong" as they have done here. I have also NEVER in any other show heard anyone distance anyone else from ACA. (apart from Matt on rare occasions saying something along the lines of "please do understand that this is my personal opinion, and I am aware of that". Usually when talking about morality, iirc.) The reason why this bugs me so much is because I actually want to hear a discussion. I do think I don't have enough knowledge about transgender people. And I do want to know more, but if I read trans' blog or whatever, it generally doesn't answer the questions I have. Discussion such as this one (could have been) would address these questions (albeit in a very blunt manner). For me, behind the "So what if I feel like a dog" is "what do you mean that you FEEL like a woman/man?", or perhaps more precise "can someone also feel as something else than man/woman?" It might be insensitive, but my standard reaction to a new phenomenon is to prod at the extremes. Tl;dr: The same logic that is applied to theist callers is not applied to "transphobes".

@matejbrada5211

5 жыл бұрын

​@Little Bit I see. Unfortunately, it feels like another polarizing problem. Appears to be all over the world lately. With Brexit, Trump vs Clinton, and many others. From what I see (at least the two I have mentioned) these problems tend to just end up in a shouting match, which fuels itself and noone is any better off. Just out of interest, which rights are getting stripped? I am aware of the prohibition in military, but to be honest, I would ban everyone willing to enter military from entering military, because they are obvious psychopaths. :P I am not American, and don't follow this problematic too closely. It is also difficult to find reliable information due to the shouting match, I find. I agree that anyone saying "trans is not real" should be called an idiot and hung up on. I am afraid that if I called in and asked what is it all about, and what rights are violated, and why should I call trans by their preferred pronoun, if let's say I prefer to call everyone by ... err whatever, I am afraid that if I did that, I would be told to learn more about this before speaking and hung up on. The last question is provocative on purpose. It's not attacking trans people, but probing at the boundary. This is incredibly gray area of where do your rights end and my start. Also hey, don't feel obliged to talk to me, even though I thank you that you take the time :)

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

@@matejbrada5211 If transphobes are too busy shouting on the internet to beat up or kill trans people, that's a trade worth making.

@LordDTwigo

5 жыл бұрын

Matt and Jamie are the ones acting like they aren't open to scientific information. Not the caller. They aren't even willing to have the talk, let alone hash out the actual science where they know they would be proven wrong. They both hold a double standard, when science doesnt comport to their leftist ideas they immediately shut it down. Hence why they stick to religion for debating because it's the easiest subject to shut down.

@JayMaverick

4 жыл бұрын

Wait wait, the reason for not picking up the call again was because the show was ending.

All the hosts are now super nervous talking about trans issues, kind of disappointing

@sledgecorp

5 жыл бұрын

I think it's perfectly natural to be nervous talking about something you don't have direct experience in (ie being trans).

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@@sledgecorp you dont need to have a Christian background to show how religion is wrong.

@sledgecorp

5 жыл бұрын

@@litozway617 I agree. Did I say that you did?

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@@sledgecorp there are hosts that can speak on religion without ever being a part of it . Not so nervous tho

@sledgecorp

5 жыл бұрын

@@litozway617 oh I get what you're saying now. Sorry about the confusion.but that's a little different. Many of the hosts can understand the experiences of a religious person without going through it. And some of them have. But something like being trans I would feel would be something quite different. Definitely a different set of experiences I would say. not being trans though I would not be sure that statement was true or not. And therefore I would be nervous to state it as if it were fact.

Matt is a bigot for not believing in religion. What a stupid remark he made. I'm an atheist by the way.

The problem in this interview (which is common in many arguments) is that two different people are using the same word to mean two very different things. Clay understands the word "woman" to mean biological woman, and according to this definition, he is factually correct when he says a person with two X chromosomes is a "woman". Matt and Jamie understand the word "woman" (in this context) to mean a person who identifies as a woman. Using that definition, they are factually correct in claiming a "woman" can have a Y chromosome. Normally Matt and Jamie are good at clarifying definitions used during discussions so they just don't speak past their guests. But today for some reason, they just went for the angry atheist meme and started attacking the guy. Whenever I see rationality thrown out the window and replaced with excess emotion, I am not impressed. If the hosts can't have a civil, rational discussion with the guest, then please replace them with some hosts who can.

@Diviance

5 жыл бұрын

Well, see, that is the funny thing about our biology... there are more than 2 biological genders. There are actually more than 6 known combinations of chromosomes. X - Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner’s ) XX - Most common form of female XXY - Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter) XY - Most common form of male XYY - Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people XXXY - Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births Those are the six most common ones. And a lot of people who don't have the standard XX or XY... don't even know it. So it is entirely possible that your biological gender... is technically not what you think it is.

@1970Phoenix

5 жыл бұрын

@@Diviance I believe you are conflating phenotype with genotype.

@Diviance

5 жыл бұрын

@@1970Phoenix I do not believe so but you are free to explain if you think I am.

@valkyriefrost5301

5 жыл бұрын

@@Diviance - A phenotype results from the expression of an organism's genetic code, its genotype, as well as the influence of environmental factors and the interactions between the two. A person with a genotype 47XXY could develop into (anatomically) either male or female, depending on it's gene expression. There are plenty of homosexual men that are 46XY and homosexual Women that are 46XX. Human mental development is more than just genotype and Gender Identity is a mental process that is far more subjective. It's not a simple binary issue and the permutations in phenotype can lead to all sorts of variations within any given set of genotypes.

@sandsmarc

5 жыл бұрын

Diviance You are bringing in various disease states that do not apply in the vast majority of cases. There are only 2 sexes that apply to only 2 genders. The rest is birth defects.

Cowards. The caller was completely reasonable - these guys hate religion but answering “if you don’t agree your wrong” is about as religious as it gets

they just get so heated and defensive about gender like they dont really want to talk about it like they are too afraid to say the wrong thing so the second someone doesnt get it "oh you're a bigot" seems pretty dishonest for a skeptic show

@catweasle5737

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same.

@lorianabanana6066

Жыл бұрын

Let me try- SEX and GENDER are two different things that bigots often conflat- which is frustrating. SEX is biological. However it's actually much more complicated then people want to believe. It's not just your chromosomes, it's also your gametes (sperm/egg), hormones, bone structure, body fat/hair distribution, and secondary sex charactortistics like breasts. Sex isn't binary- it's a BIMODAL distribution. Meaning most people fall into 2 ends (male/female) but lots of people fall inbetween. All kinds of INTERSEX people exists. Some have ambigious gentials. Others have extra sex chromosomes (XXX, XXY, XYY) others have hormone issues or don't produce gametes at all. Actually there are more intersex people living then natural red heads. But most don't talk about it because bigots are a thing. GENDER however is purely social, thus much more complicated. Gender is how you present and the tropes/ roles that are attributed to your precieved sex. It's how you walk, talk, sit, stand, dress. What are your roles (mother, father, sibling, parent, son, daughter, your job, martial status etc). It's how you do your hair, whether you shave your legs, face or wear makeup. It also changes over time and between cultures. For instance nothing about having a vagina dicates that I must or must not wear pink. And many of the styles women wear today (wigs, ponytails, high heels, lace, face powder, rouge etc) were originally MEN'S fashion- not womens. Like just over 100 years ago women couldn't show their ankles and many jobs were forbidden to us. But today I can work whereever and show my ankles. So being trans is when your gender and sex conflict. And there is actually alot of data showing that some trans people's brain structure is more like their gender identity physically then there sex. But the science isn't 100% conculsive yet on that front. But without a doubt letting someone trasition and supporting them makes a HUGE difference in reguards to suicide rates and overall mental health. Also this idea that trans people are unnatural and only 2 genders/sexes exist is really only in modern Western society. Most ancient cultures had many genders, between 3 to 5 or more depending. Look at ancient Rome, Eygpt, India, Greece, First Nation in North America etc. For some reason (cough: Abrahamic Religions) we have a very puritanical view on anything involving sex & gender.

@lorianabanana6066

Жыл бұрын

Let's be real tho- most people won't accept that sex & gender are different and that LGBT+ people (and animals) have always existed. They have been raised to think trans people are icky- and they give zero f^cks about all the data saying it's normal & natural. The fact that this guy thinks that sex is JUST your chromosomes and ONLY XX XY exist is telling. He doesn't even understand basic biology- but is sooooo sure he's right. It's Dunning Kruger at it's finest. You can't blame the hosts for not wanting to try and educate him on a huge topic in the last 2 minutes of the show.

@user-mg8tw7yo4f

11 ай бұрын

@@lorianabanana6066 WOW, long winded rant that I did not read. What would you say to a physician? say an endocrinologist when it becomes very consequential for them, when it is time to administer potentially very dangerous medications and procedures, and if I administer these to the wrong gender, I could seriously harm them. I mean, i could write 50 pages on here of the difference of both genders on a cellular level. A women and man are far more than a hormone level.

@williamrisbridger60

11 ай бұрын

@@user-mg8tw7yo4fA physician of course must do whatever is medically appropriate for the person that they are treating. There, that’s a simpler answer than you were expecting to receive. Are you under the impression that doctors do not understand the workings of the human body?

wow, replace transgender with Jesus is savior and you can see how far their logic has fallen.

@AnaxofRhodes

4 жыл бұрын

The hypocrisy is astounding to actual skeptics.

“You can be a bigot if you want to” hahaha

It’s kinda funny how some theists get their balls tangled up over a person who acknowledges what they look like and how they feel and comes to the conclusion that they are trans. I think it has to do with the frustration of holding a worldview that is in conflict with people who believe other religions or none at all, feeling that they are correct without that acknowledgement. The difference is a person making a claim about how they feel about their own identity, and a person making a claim about our collective reality. If you have a different pov, lmk

@heldinahtmlhell

5 ай бұрын

Nobody cares about how a person feels about their own "identity" (which means nothing), it's when that person demands everyone else has to reinforce their beliefs by pretending likewise. Which is what is happening in society and certainly in this video. People feel that God exists, in spite of all evidence. People feel that they're the opposite sex, in spite of all evidence. There is no distinction.

Why is Dillahunty so cross? He could've easily explained his opinion without the hardcore Muslim "get educated" line.

@Shortyman17

5 жыл бұрын

He started to list off things that contradict the binary view the caller had. The caller obviously didn't know about these but was indeed convinced that he knew everything there is to this topic, so he is either a troll or not literate in this topic. In both cases, not worth a debate about morals, since you need to agree on the hard facts to then argue worth

@blackmore4

5 жыл бұрын

@@Shortyman17 I just think that Dillahunty's countenance and attitude goes a long way in making the uneducated even more uneducated.

@Shortyman17

5 жыл бұрын

@@blackmore4 By listing them aspects of a topic that they haven't heard and telling them to further study it? I agree that he was pretty cocky this time, more than usual, but his message is still right imo

@Gfish17

4 жыл бұрын

Matt could have done the Educating then I would have learned something to.

Christians: I'm a christian who believes in god, here's a book (bible) with stories and made up terms created by christians explaining this ideology and why he's real Matt: None of what you said, including your book of fairy tales presents any evidence of God or validates your religion.✅ Trans people: I am a biological male who believes I'm a woman, here is a bunch of anecdotal stories, theory and made up terms created by trans people which validates why I'm a woman just for claiming I am and why biology doesn't matter. Matt (In Theory): None of what you said, including your made up terms validates that you are a biological woman. However I understand and am charitable to your feelings and will respect your preference. Science is still science though. ✅🎯 Matt (In Reality): Your claim of being a woman is completely reasonable, I'll take you at your word. Anyone who opposes this is a bigot... 🚫🤔 Your bias is showing Matt... 😭😭😭😭😭😂😂😂😂

@bodhiBit

2 ай бұрын

"Trans people: I am a biological male who believes I'm a woman, here is a bunch of anecdotal stories, theory and made up terms created by trans people which validates why I'm a woman just for claiming I am and why biology doesn't matter." That's a strawman

Lmao the caller doesn't understand what gender is, and it's not the responsibility of the hosts to give any random caller a quick 101 on gender. I think they handled it well for not being experts and having limited time.

@foundhorrificgames.2505

4 жыл бұрын

owleyes Malignaggi sex is what’s between your legs. Gender is what’s in your brain. He has no idea what he’s talking about

@more2much696

4 жыл бұрын

sex and gender used to mean the same thing these are made up teams

@robmckennie4203

4 жыл бұрын

@@more2much696 I don't know that they've ever meant the same thing. There have been more genders than sexes for actual ages

@heldinahtmlhell

5 ай бұрын

They've always meant the same thing. Gender is a synonym for sex. That's why gender and sex are identical in 99.9% of people and always have been. No there hasn't. There's always been two genders because there's only two sexes. @@robmckennie4203

The problem with transgenderism is that it’s conflating a person’s behavior with their identity and also with their body. Why do transgender people alter their bodies if gender is separate from their bodies? Gender identity is subjective, because it’s based completely on feelings and emotions and knows absolutely no bounds. If the trans community all agreed that there were only two genders, then it might have more likelihood of being valid (it still wouldn’t be), but people identify as dozens and dozens of genders. Where do you draw the line? If I identified as a frog, would you say my self perception was valid? There’s no way to scientifically prove that gender identity is a real thing. It’s just a fantasy masquerading as a concrete reality.

@wolfmaster0579

2 жыл бұрын

I think I can provide some insight into this. I am by no means a trans person and take my word for a grain of salt. The meat and bones of the issue is a lack of understanding definitions. Gender and sex are two different but related things. Sex is more biological while gender is more sociological. Sex is what most people think of as being "what your born with" while gender is moreso the way society assigns the treatment,roles, and expectations based on arbitrary categories. Let me give you an example, women tend to grow out their hair, while men tend to cut it shorter. Another may be clothing, men and women are expected to wear certain clothing and are looked down upon for not adhering to this principle. Both of these examples give no apparent connection with sex. There is simply nothing biological that says you should wear a certain peace of clothing or have your hair to a certain length. From this, we know that these two concepts are indeed seperate. Now, here is the question. If there is nothing about biology that says you should wear a specific peace of clothing, then what does? Now the humanist would likely say that the individual should probably choose this themselves. Now apply that with many categories until the person essentially ticks all of the boxes that we would generally assign with (women or man or literally anything else that is not set in stone). Once we get to the conclusion that the roles and expectations put on people should be self determainable, then the identity that's attached to the vague cluster of these traits is also determainable. At the end of the day, there is nothing that says there is even man or women, they are just averages in place with cultural customs. The natural question that follows this is what separates a trans women from a crossdresser. The answer is in a question: Why do you do what you do? Its all because it has some significance to you. In our society there is differences between how people view men and women, that leads to people wanting to live by certain expectations or not. This is so engraned in our society that we form identities around them, like how men are expected to be the breadwinner for the household, they cannot show emotion or cry, and they must be masculine and not feminine. These form the core tennents of what "manhood or Womenhood" are. All in all, because everyone is different and the line(gender) is already drawn arbitrarily, then there is no difference between saying that man and woman are good categories and trans people can self identify. In a perfect world, gender wouldn't be a category as it fundamentally is no different than looking at a black and white person and telling them that they cannot do certain things based on their race. If we want the abolition of the unfair systems, then this should include gender as an identity within itself. However until that time comes, changing your gender is a stopgap solution to this problem.

@leahjames6870

5 ай бұрын

@@wolfmaster0579 Men and women are not simply “good categories”. They are the names of the sexes in adult human form. What you are mainly referring to is gender a.k.a gender roles. Those are the roles, norms and behaviors made by a society/culture. Those are completely made up, a social construct. We call these generally speaking masculinity and femininity. “The natural question that follows this is what separates a trans women from a crossdresser. The answer is in a question: Why do you do what you do? Its all because it has some significance to you”. Both are cross dressers, it’s just that one may have took more permanent means to appear as a woman. But let’s say they didn’t. How does society know who are simply “cross dressers” and who are not??? This is a problem, because we can’t tell. Since people can be “gender fluid” whatever that even means, how is society to tell the difference…

@wolfmaster0579

5 ай бұрын

@@leahjames6870 This is not accurate. Man and woman are gender constructs, and male and female are biological constructs. When someone asks, “what does it mean to be a man?” they are not talking about being male, they are talking about the experience of their gender. Many cultures around the world have more than two genders, and historically their societies that had many more. Man and woman are not good categories, morally speaking, but they are generally good categories when distinguishing the roles and expectations between different people. I would argue that those roles and expectations are immoral as we would not apply expectations to other important trait or characteristic. Both are not cross-dressers. Cross-dressing is all about clothing, and the connection between one's gender identity may not be the same. Our society carries with it certain gender, roles and expectations. Because of this, A cross-dresser is someone who identifies with a particular gender, but not that genders traditional expression of clothing at all times. A trans person may dress in alignment with their gender expression, but it's not crossdressing because it is their gender. G fluid means that someone feels differently about their gender day-to-day. So on some days they may feel as if they are more closely identified as a woman, and others they feel more related to a man. there’s a very clear difference between the two and if you want to tell the difference you can just simply ask them what their gender identity is.

Well that was pitiful. I was hoping to possibly learn something about this topic and possibly correct my view on it if it was demonstrated to be false. All that happened was a bunch of aggressive ad-homs, which made me less willing to engage in some sort of discussion to change any beliefs that I have in this issue, mostly because I expect that this will be the result

@bobbyboywonder12

4 жыл бұрын

Agree. I hate that Matt gets so fucking worked up about it. Matt, cool off, and deconstruct this like you do everything else related to god. Because to this point, you haven’t yet

@rs72098

5 ай бұрын

​​@@bobbyboywonder12Matt knows it's a losing argument for the far left. So his only response is to lash out and launch verbal attacks at the caller. It's similar to gun debates.

Oh shit!!! I love 4:14 when Matt called the caller out for being a bigot... As a DJ who ran Drag Shows, this caller has no idea how difficult life is for these people.

@ToHoldNothing

3 жыл бұрын

And I bet they also don't understand the nuance of drag versus trans identity, versus crossdressing, which I did and I'm as cis a man as you get, super vanilla

Ok the last second of this video is pure gold.

I recognize gender dysphoria but I don't see the difference between that and transgenderism. If your sex is what you actually are, and gender is how you feel about who you are, then the analogy about transspecies would make sense. If someone is biologically a human being, but in their mind they feel like they are a cat or something, that doesn't make them a cat. It's just in their own head. I don't see how that would be different for men thinking their women and vice versa. Often times when I hear Matt and others say you need to do more research, this is a little frustrating because they are not explaining why the analogy is wrong. Simply reacting the way they did to the analogy doesn't tell us why the analogy is wrong. All they did was react to his statement by making assertions and name calling(calling him bigoted). He already said he doesn't really care and people can do whatever they want. How does that make him bigoted?

@Luke-gq7du

5 жыл бұрын

I'm of the same mind, and would prefer them to talk it out rather than just dismiss it. I'm open to having my mind changed, as I'm sure others are and they missed a chance to educate if possible.

@Diviance

5 жыл бұрын

Gender dysphoria is a specific condition where they feel extreme stress and emotional turmoil by having a physical body that doesn't match what they feel they are. If they don't feel that stress and emotional turmoil, then even if they feel their physical body doesn't match them... it isn't gender dysphoria.

@johnlocke4670

5 жыл бұрын

@@Diviance Okay, but let's say some one feels like they are a cat, but they don't feel any stress about it. Wouldn't they still be delusional about who they are?

@danhendricks5896

5 жыл бұрын

If sex is what you actually are and gender is what you feel you are, then why are trans trying to push to get into their choice of school locker rooms? Does anyone think locker rooms were designed to be separated by what people feel they are?

@johnlocke4670

5 жыл бұрын

@Little Bit I don't think your argument really works. When we use word like "species" and "sex or gender" we use them as a way of classifying something. We classify things based on what they have in common(similarities). Most like, at least all life on a macroscopic scale is made up of DNA. DNA determines everything about a lifeform, it's species, it's gender etc. Every human being is different, but many humans share similar traits or attributes. We classify gender as one of those traits. If you have an XY chromosome, we call those humans male. If you have an XX chromosome, we call those humans female. We can even put delusional people into their own classification. You can call all men that feel like they should be women transwomen. That's fine if you want to use that term to mean that, but it doesn't change the fact that the transwoman is really a man. We can do the same thing with the word transcats. Let all humans who feel like they should be cats and call those people transcats. That's fine. We can classify people in that way, but physically, they are a human because we don't classify species and sex by how someone feels about who they are but by what is physically present.

Someone can do Christianity over there and I don't have to believe in it. Would that not be the same thing matt then described as bigotry xD Someone being trans and I don't have to go along with it. They can't even talk about the subject without getting a tiny bit skeptical.

@GoodBrotherGrimm

3 ай бұрын

What a nonsense argument.

@thetempter9023

3 ай бұрын

@@GoodBrotherGrimm I mean you can get upset, but that just you . I'm assuming you prefer imagination and identity instead of reality?

@GoodBrotherGrimm

3 ай бұрын

@thetempter9023 What does reality have to do with Christianity? Trans people exist. Not a single person has ever proved a god exists. Your little comparison is beyond ignorant, and the fact you had to throw out a childish little "hurrdurr if you're upset" is clearly just projection. Get better, bigot.

These two shut down the conversation because they had no answers lol

@Shortyman17

5 жыл бұрын

Nah, they shutdown the conversation because the caller doesn't know about the topic he's trying to make a case against. Not worth going over every piece of facts with every caller, just like the wannabe scientists that call in

@apachechief8815

4 жыл бұрын

Shortyman17 No a guys ass isn’t a family

@furtivedolus2504

4 жыл бұрын

@@Shortyman17 They sound kinda RELIGIOUS about this topic.

@Shortyman17

4 жыл бұрын

@@furtivedolus2504 what a witty comment

@furtivedolus2504

4 жыл бұрын

@@Shortyman17 Pity I can't say the same for your comeback. This smacks of religious thinking and you know it. You basically either have to take this shit, ON FAITH, or use new speak-like tactics to change the meaning of basic ideas like 'man' and 'woman'. This is what religions do with a lot of things. And you know it.

That ending though. “Fuck Clay.”

I'm really trying to go into this with as open a mind as possible. So with that said, please explain why it's different if a man demands you acknowledge he is a dog from if he demands you acknowledge he is a woman. Im not trying to start a keyboard war I legitimately am curious about the distinction

@carrie637

4 жыл бұрын

In humans, there are male and female brains, and hypothetically, nonbinary brains. It has been observed by psychologists that trans men have male brains and trans women have female brains. Because the idea of nonbinary is so new, they were not included in those studies. There are three popular hypotheses on the validity of nonbinary. One is that there are brains with male and female aspects, making nonbinary the gender equivalent of intersex. Another one is that nonbinary people are binary trans people who just experience less gender dysphoria. The last one is that they are cis people who have body dysmorphia in regards to some of their sex characteristics. I listed the hypotheses in order of their popularity amongst medical professionals and psychologists.

@ToHoldNothing

3 жыл бұрын

Because we have a demonstrable biological definition for a dog, it isn't a social construct like the ideas of man and woman, versus male and female, which have biological distinctions, but are not correlative to one's gender identity or requirements thereof.

Use pure logic and rationality to prove you are you. Some things you just have to accept because you can't crawl inside someone else's head.

You guys really handled this badly.

@sandsmarc

5 жыл бұрын

Little Bit Other combinations of XY are birth defects. In the normative cases, XY equals male and xx equals female. And gender is not assigned it is observed. If you have a cock, balls, and XY chromosomes, you are born a male, you are now a male, and you will always be a male. Regardless of self mutilation or cosmetic changes or hormonal destructionof your body’s chemistry. No amount of screeching about science can change this basic immutable fact of reality. Bruce Jenner was born a man, is now a man, and the casket he is eventually buried in will contain the body of a man. simple reality. “Transitioning“ is simply not possible. It represents a meaningless cosmetic alteration that does not change the basic reality of what can never change.

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

@@sandsmarc Nope, those are differences. They're no more defects than someone being shorter than average or born with hair on their head.

@plants_before_people5329

5 жыл бұрын

@@MattSingh1 actually, the brains of transgender people physically match that of their preferred gender more than that of their born gender. It's something that can be physically shown on an MRI. So they were born with the brain of their preferred gender

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

@Corvo@AZ Why? Do you prefer butch men?

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

@Corvo@AZ Oh get lost you idiot troll

Why is this even a highlight clip? There was no discussion. No reasoned debate from either side. Just alot of knee jerk, pearl clutching.

@joshkirby2372

5 жыл бұрын

Bigot is bigoted - Jamie and Matt point out why he's being irrational.

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@@joshkirby2372 no they dont

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

@@venga3 No, they didn't waste time with an unthinking bigot. Their show, their choice. Get over yourself, snowflake.

@drlegendre

5 жыл бұрын

@RedEyed I was about to say "because bigotry", but our friend Josh unironically beat me to the punchline.

@markhackett2302

5 жыл бұрын

@@drlegendre Yeah, how come people who have an irrational terror of someone because of nothing that is to do with them or affects them can't be loved just as they don't love others???

i suppose it depends on what people should be skeptical about. how is it wrong to compare trans people to those who believe they are aliens? no one knows the cause of transgenderism. are we all going to sit here not admitting that it could be a psychological disorder? i dont know, is a better answer. clearly everything about our personality and consciousness comes from the mind. sex and gender are very different. if it not born of the mind then where? i do not believe in a soul. so the idea of a male soul ending up in a womans body is not a good argument for me. though i do believe trans people are real and there is something happening to them. i also believe that everyone should be protected and afforded the same rights as everyone else. if the people who believe themselves to be aliens. when there is good evidence to suggest the cause of transgenderism. my mind will follow the evidence. here is a link to show it is not so cut and dry. both sides need to stop yelling at the other with their feelings. your feelings do not matter. truth matters. youtube.com/ watch?v=qlRkLtKqSrY

@turdferguson3400

5 жыл бұрын

You should afford trans people the same benefit of the doubt you afford to nontrans people. When somebody says they're a man, you don't go checking their genitals just to be sure, even though that's the scientific thing to do. You treat then as a man and you move on with life. If we don't care about the genitals and chromosomes of nontrans people, why should we care about the genitals and chromosomes of trans people? If they act a certain way, then that is all we need.

> be a libertarian > be against Liberty

I don't accept this "gender is a social construct" nonsense ... male or female is purely biological. Leaving aside a very small number of people with defective genes and/or damaged genitals, a person is either male or female according to his chromosomes & genitalia, regardless of any 'claims' - facts don't care about feelings. I still respect Matt as an apologist for atheism, as he does not tolerate 'bullshit' from theists. But I have lost a lot of respect for Matt as a person for the obvious 'hypocrisy' that he displays in this video, calling the caller a bigot for not accepting the fakery of transgenderism, which is no different from theism. Or is Matt willing to accept that he is a bigot wrt theism? What happened to "claims require evidence" ... why different standards for theism & transgenderism?

@SolarisKane

4 жыл бұрын

I agree with you 100%. If people want to live a life of mental illness, fine, but I won't play their gender game. He will always be Bruce Jenner to me, for example.

@dukeemzworth3005

4 жыл бұрын

A religious Christian or Muslim can similarly call an atheist a bigot for not accepting their delusions as well. Religion is also a "thing" - so what?

Matt: "I don't agree with you, you're a bigot" what an absolute regressive troll Matt has become

@stasi9949

4 жыл бұрын

To be fair, this particular caller actually is a bigot so Matt's gonna call a spade a spade.

@rs72098

5 ай бұрын

​@@stasi9949Acknowledging basic scientific observable facts does NOT make anyone a bigot.

@vaskovallidis552

6 күн бұрын

​@@rs72098The scientific consensus is that trans identities are valid.

I kind of understand that guy, i know this topic its wierd because for some reason we are talking about something personal about another person...and yeah they might be on a psychological transition, and meaby plenty of stuff to deal with, so it seems logic that using rigorous logic might be usefull for them to get closer to a truth they might be seeking...but, again, those are personal issues, we are not supposed to enter somebody else house and tell them how to arrange their kitchen...just don´t be a dick, been helpfull if its needed and a good neighbore...is not that hard to adress.

@sandsmarc

5 жыл бұрын

colaboytje it is psychiatric, that is to say, a break from reality. A dissociative disorder.

I’m glad you had that conversation and handled it the way you did. It’s unfortunate that you were suckered in to taking that call under false pretenses in the first place. I would humbly suggest you change the title of your video to an affirmation statement about trans people, that represents your view, instead of the negative statement that represents the caller. I understand controversy creates clicks and shares but in this case I think either way is controversial enough to achieve that. People see the negating statements all the time. It’s enough that it just exists on the title, regardless of the contents of the video, to be yet another drop in the ocean of negative statements that leads to poor mental health and emotional well-being outcomes among the population you’re intending to defend here. Thank you so much for the statements you made here.

@vinesco5270

5 жыл бұрын

LMFAO

@thepoofster2251

5 жыл бұрын

Bahahahahaha your title is hurting ppl? One more drop In the ocean of terrible comments

Why does it seem like our hosts are walking on eggshells? They really don't even want to delve in deeper into the subject. Are they afraid of getting canceled? 🤔

I think the real answer here is "gender dysphoria IS a real thing, but transgenderism is only a real thing to the extent that the word "gender" has become a word without content." So I say, let the ideologues have the word "gender" as long as the term "biological sex" still means something.

@ToHoldNothing

3 жыл бұрын

No one is saying sex doesn't have a meaning, it isn't correlative to gender except by social conventions: cisgender people, their gender identity corresponding to what we would think is "common" for the connection to their sex, but it doesn't work that way for everyone and transgender people are not aberrant or damaging, they're different

@TheSnoeedog

2 жыл бұрын

in biology the only hard line determination of biological sex is gamete production; do you make lots of little eggs (biologically male) or do you make few, big eggs (biologically female). Nobody is suggesting altering the meaning of sex. Furthermore *GENDER* affirming surgery/assorted other health care (I am cis and have NO experience with such, so I won't bloviate/butcher terms) *DOES NOT, NOR DOES IT ATTEMPT TO, CHANGE AN INDIVIDUAL'S SEX.* read a fucking book, bigot!

The AXP has always stood by our people. The trans. LOVE AXP

Caller was aggressive, but in all fairness if you find anything confusing about this topic you’re seemingly accused of being a marginalizing bigot, as if you should just accept things you don’t understand. I want equal rights for everyone, but one example of how this blurs that line is when men who are born with significantly more testosterone, and therefore their bones are permanently larger, as well as height, want to compete against women after transitioning….I don’t see how this is fair. On the other hand I would like to learn more about this as skepticism relies on acknowledging you could be wrong. What is the best scientific findings that this is not generally a mental disorder such as gender dysphoria? It’d be an awful thing to encourage people who are suffering from an illness considering the high suicide rate, and post transitional surgery remorse, per studies in 2016.

@TheSnoeedog

2 жыл бұрын

"that [being trans] is not generally a mental disorder such as gender dysphoria." Among other things, transitioning is a treatment for gender dysphoria, so I think your question suffers from a category error. the sports thing is a separate conversation, that can certainly be had, but is a distinct issue from whether or not those individuals in question are trans. Making the issue be about sports instead of identity is logically fallacious; the argument from adverse consequences. If people are categorizing you as a marginalizing bigot for asking questions, try new people...this assumes that you *aren't* a marginalizing bigot, lol. Your comment seems sincere. I hold a lot of views that are polar opposites from "the norm" and am quite used to being accused of condescension and "looking for a fight" when in fact I'm trying to sincerely learn more...so I get what you're saying. But truthfully, if you have a sincere interest in learning, are asking questions accordingly (respectfully, no loaded language/prejudgement) and the people you're asking are accusing you of being a marginalizing bigot, fuck'm. Seriously, with a jagged, broken whiskey bottle. Their judgement is trivial, as they're clearly bringing their own preconceptions (anyone asking questions should know better/is stirring the pot/is JAQ'ing off etc..) into the discussions, and, well, I'm a big fan of dismissing idiots outright unless I get the impression that I can entertain myself at their expense....but even then I could give a fuck less what they think of me. Keep asking questions

@drewbeedoobeedooooooo4821

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheSnoeedog dude great answer you’re a legend. Didn’t intend to blend different categories I just have questions that are stemming from the original. Thanks for your thorough clarification

@TheSnoeedog

2 жыл бұрын

@@drewbeedoobeedooooooo4821 My pleasure! Especially given your diligence (following up) and continued display of sincerity. If you wanna throw any other questions up, I'll do my best to answer them! live well

Bigotry is being intolerant of another group. The guy said he had no problem with them believing and practicing what they want. That’s literally being tolerant. He’s not required to accept their premise in order to be tolerant. As an atheist he doesn’t feel the need to accept the Christian’s premise, but he can still be tolerant by respecting their right to practice freely. Really getting tired of this demonizing rhetoric to label anyone a bigot who doesn’t agree with your premise.

@willoweable

2 ай бұрын

Actually he is required. That's the first step in order to be intolerant. You are not tolerant by screaming 2 + 2 is 5 over and over again and saying that you're not a bigot. He was asserting that transgenders aren't real and instead of listening to the hosts he asserted that he knows everything and that they know nothing. He was nothing short of a bigot

I'm a fan of both hosts but this time they was bigoted. And the title says "trans isn't real", did the caller imply that? No, the opposite. Btw, gender roles is not the same as gender.

@mkhosono1741

5 жыл бұрын

you are either dumb or deaf.

@mkhosono1741

5 жыл бұрын

@@AllanPowell SJW? lmao.

@plowenson

5 жыл бұрын

@@mkhosono1741 LOL, you sound really smart. It's not like you would just assert things 😂😂😂

@briancomley8210

5 жыл бұрын

@@mkhosono1741 plowenson may be both, l don't know, but he is correct in saying swapping genders is just pretending.

@briancomley8210

5 жыл бұрын

@@AllanPowell There is nothing about winning here, your body is either male or female, there is no way anyone can change that, ( there are a very few exceptions), you can't just claim to be the opposite whenever you feel like it.

It's hilarious how Jamie said "Those two arent even fucking close to analogous" and then didnt bother to elaborate on how they arent analogous.

@forallthestupidshit3550

4 жыл бұрын

He did explain it. Transgenderism is about gender identity. A dog is not a gender. Not analogous.

@michaelmarini4627

4 жыл бұрын

@@forallthestupidshit3550 He didn't explain it at all. All he said was that "Those things arent even fucking close to analogous" and then changed the subject. That's what quitters do.

@forallthestupidshit3550

4 жыл бұрын

@@michaelmarini4627 "that's what quitters do." What a dumb way to end a comment. Were you trying to prove Jaime's a quitter? What a fucking worthwhile use of your time. I seem to have understood it pretty well, and I heard him say "that's not gender," so I guess he must of explained it just before he quit. Good on you to point out all the quitters on KZread though. You must be super proud of your accomplishments. I'm going to quit writing this comment after my next sentence. Does that make me a quitter too?

Matt: "You just said something is a thing, but you don't agree with it. Who gives a fuck whether you agree with it or not?" That is OK, but Matt went on to call him a bigot. I think the point the caller was trying to make was that we treat these issues differently. Religion is also a thing, but we do care enough to talk about that even though we don't agree with the "thing". I have nothing against religious people existing, and I have nothing against trans-people existing. What I care about is what is expected of ME because of your "thing" or position. There is a meme going around showing a person saying "I cannot do that because of my religion", which is fair. But then it shows another side which says "YOU cannot do that because of MY religion", and here is where most of us say "Wait a minute": So why should I (if that was the case) all of a sudden be a douche, a bigot, a motherf..., just because I address someone who to me obviously look male as "he"? I have people in my life who identify differently, and I choose to address them as they wish. I am fine with it - but I am talking from principle here - why should it be the default? If it is about sensitivity, why are we thinking of ourselves as serious, and educated when we talk down about religion, but the mere addressing of someone that looks male as "he" makes you a bigot? What the hell? Why do I have to make changes because of you? .. is the gist of it. We use it for religion all the time, but when gender enters into it - we see the same anger we see in Trump rallies sometimes. People are frothing at the mouth. I agree with Matt wholeheartedly that IF the science say there is no difference, then great - but then why even have sex-separated sports? Just make it sports. I realize, of course, as Matt also said, that there may very well be more to it than that, but the separation of the sexes are seen all over the place. Bathrooms, sports, toys, tv-shows - it is society that separates the sexes, not so much the sexes themselves. Although, in sports we see skiiers (for example) be banned for using certain types of lip balm - off season, and outside of competition - so there may indeed be things that need to be addressed in competitive sports. I shall leave that to the science. If you are a boy and want to play with dolls, go right ahead. If you are a girl but want to be a mechanic, all the power to you. I don't even have anything against unisex bathrooms, although .. the female populations are not winning with that. As all male-bathroom user know, we .. well, the other ones are cleaner. Let's jus say that. For what I care, we can mix all of this. If that was a suggestion, I would vote for it. Just don't call me a bigot if I say "she" or "he" about someone who to me obviously looks one way or another. I assure you it is not from malice.

@Tinkatuff

5 жыл бұрын

The caller is a bigot, he compared gender identity to thinking you're a dog.

@henryvollws

5 жыл бұрын

​@@Tinkatuff of course, if that is genuinely how he feels then that is silly and stupid and yes bigoted. Still, I was talking in principle here. I don't know that guy, so I can't talk for him. The impression I got however, was that he was looking towards the factual. Enter his bad example, that even if someone identifies as a dog we shouldn't all be expected to address that person as a dog. - Again, on princple - and with the added "no comparison otherwise". I would personally have chosen a different example, but that is part of the point. Almost no matter how this issue is touched on - without complete agreement with one side, then armageddon. And this goes against how this community operate normally (the reaction). Surely there are trans christian people out there as well. Being trans is not exclusively atheist, yet it has become a major part of the atheist community - at least here on youtube, and on facebook. It is fine because it IS a part of it. Point being there are trans people everywhere. It ISN'T locked down to a specific community, even if - of course - there may exclusive communities for trans people. Still - to take another example which does not involve animals - if someone says to me that they identifiy as african-american, but they have an Irish background, white as they come, and so forth, then I am not likely going to describe this person to other people as being african american. I still support that persons right to identify as whatever they want, but the point comes in - and the only point - as it should not be the default that everyone else has to change how they address them. It is factual that this person is Irish, so if I say that then I shouldn't be in the wrong. I live in Norway. Here we do not have different word for sex and gender, for example. - Sex = Kjønn and gender = kjønn. It is the same word for both, so it may be that I look at this differently because of that.

@Tinkatuff

5 жыл бұрын

The transracial conflation you brought up doesn't work because the two are not even remotely similar. Mountains of scientific research on gender dysphoria demonstrate it exists, but science shows no neurological difference between races, so feeling the wrong race doesn't exist biologically like gender identity's biological origins in fetal hormonal development. People would have been transsexual independent of their social circumstances, the dissonance is much of the time biological. A transracial person is socially dependent since race is purely socially constructed (nobody can develop as a white male but their brain be that of a black male), and their dissonance doesn't come from within like a transsexual person, transgender people are innately. Putting aside the social constructs and the science of the gender spectrum and how it differs from their biological sex traits, the caller did come off as a bigot for saying transgender people are "not a thing" since it denigrates the entire transgender community. He doesn't have to accept or understand them, but he should be at the very least able to tolerate them and recognize they do in fact exist (and at least done his research). That's the main problem here and why Matt was not amused whatsoever.

@henryvollws

5 жыл бұрын

​@@Tinkatuff "Mountains of scientific research on gender dysphoria demonstrate it exists" My apologies if I gave you the impression I didn't think it existed, because that was not my intention. And again, I am not defending that caller - I don't know him at all, and can of course not talk for him. I was merely looking at the problem of the factual, and again - like I have already said, it is possible I understand this differently coming from a place where the language only has the one word for both sex and gender. Because a male identifying as woman is not the same as saying you are actually female. I guess we are agreeing on that? Whilst in my language, that would be exactly what it would sound like.

@neptunianmoon6285

3 жыл бұрын

@@henryvollws My language has separate words for sex and gender, but we don't really use the word for gender that much. However, I do understand the difference. A person you think looks like a male based on the image you have for what a male is may identify as a woman. That means they are a woman, because society shouldn't get to decide who looks like what and what each gender looks lik. I never understood the insistence of people in saying "this is what a male looks like and this is what a female looks like". Who cares? Why are you hanging up on this as if it's important to your worldview? It's not. And I don't think anybody will call you a bigot if you misgender someone who you don't know is trans or not. You will however be a bigot if, after that person tells you that they're actually another gender, you STILL refuse to acknowledge them and respect their wishes. And for what? For nothing.

Gender is not independent from Chromosomes.

@ToHoldNothing

3 жыл бұрын

@reborned07 No, they can be conditioned, that doesn't mean we don't have freedom of distinction or a capacity to understand things later. I was raised pretty much only in Christian churches, yet now I have a broader grasp of not only Christianity, but many religions. My background socially has nothing to do with my genetics and my capacity to understand was not purely from one or the other

This isn't hard guys. On both sides can we just acknowledge the truth here? Being trans is a concept. No you can't change your biological sex/gender. But when one gender chooses to present as the opposite, we call it trans. Simple!

@davidgraham8058

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. And if biological sex has nothing to do with gender, how could they be ‘trans’ at all. The irony is that most trans people fully acknowledge biological reality. They acknowledge their true biological sex and just present socially as the other one in order to navigate through life more comfortably. They don’t actually claim to have changed their sex at all 😂

@mariomiceli9663

Жыл бұрын

If only the people spouting nonsense and claiming its factual could be this honest. They wouldnt be utterly incoherent and contradictive.

@michaeldarby3503

10 ай бұрын

Nicely put Wyett, its not an easy concept to explain.

@copper5964

10 ай бұрын

Sex? No Gender? Yes

@Simon-nv5zj

10 ай бұрын

how do we tell if that concept is accurate and based in reality??

Also... he didnt say " why not follow religion". He meant " why dont we engage this transgender topic the same way we do religion. RATIONALITY RULES IS MUCH MORE SKEPTICAL AND Has DOUBLED DOWN HIS CLAIM IN HIS LAST VIDEO. IM SO SADDENED BY THE ACA.

@nehriim3748

5 жыл бұрын

honestly, i'd take your side of the argument seriously if not for the massive percentage of comments that just dismiss transgender people as a basis. "neutered men", "tr*nnies", ect. it makes you sound like a massive asshole in general and you dont see that shit coming from the other side of the argument where you are treated as a human (altho a bigoted human)

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@@nehriim3748 asshole or not I need not care about people's perceptions. That's why I dont go along with others perceptions of what is Male or female. I'm here for the facts and only the facts. Science doesnt care about your feelings. It just is . And until we can actually define and outline what advantages trans men have over cis women in a physically competitive sport , we shouldn't just allow for them to compete with women.

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@@nehriim3748 also I've not once used those words so you must not be talking about me.

@nehriim3748

5 жыл бұрын

@@litozway617 im not, i am talking about the overall community you side with

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@@nehriim3748 I am an INDIVIDUAL and I dont mess around with identity politics. Dont shove words down my throat. Thank you.

He is right. I haven't heard a good argument yet for genders to exist.

Matt your knowledge on broad range of issues and ability to get right to the base of arguments is awesome and inspiring!

@Frankya92

5 жыл бұрын

His intellect is for sure admirable at times, but on this occasion I don’t think he won

Being a bigot means not playing along with people's delusions

Lmao "this is about human beings" (so we can throw out all logic? LIKE WHAT. They made gender ideology their religion. Kind of disappointing.)

Matt ur awesome - coming from a transwoman

Matt is utterly wrong in this one.

Anyway, people shouldn’t go with anything. They should believe what evidence indicates.

Is Matt not on atheist experience anymore?

@1:44 - If it's any consolation Jamie, I facepalmed pretty hard during the live show at this point too.

Not the move matt Sad

Claim: """Trans-women are women.""' Hypothetical Syllogism so you can clearly see the argument. 1. If a person is a woman then it is because that person is female. 2. Lia Thomas is not female. 3. Therefore; Lia Thomas is not a woman. In logic, this is Modus Tollens. It is valid and sound. If P then Q ~Q ∴~ P Since trans-women are males it is not logically possible for them to be women. The Claim: """Trans-women are women""" is false.

@Genevievealicex

11 ай бұрын

Firstly you could definitely argue that biological sex can be changed, but regardless when someone is making the claim that trans women are women, they may be using a definition of woman that is more related to the social category than the biological one. Words can have more than one definition for different contexts and uses, like the word water. That could mean river water, tap water, pure H2O and you can figure out what I mean through context, for example if I said I was thirsty and needed water you probably wouldn't think i meant pure H2O. Sorry if I rambled too much, but basically my point is that language and biology and social classifications are far too complicated to fit neatly into a math equation.

@thunkjunk

11 ай бұрын

@@Genevievealicex Biological sex cannot be changed. All the definitions for the word "woman" are conditional on the person being female. You can check yourself. What you are saying is that it is ok to equivocate. Well, it is not. In the logic I wrote, I did not equivocate. Do you know why I didn't equivocate and why it is wrong to equivocate? It is wrong because then the logic would be invalid because to equivocate means that you change the meaning of the words and the logic loses consistency.

@heldinahtmlhell

4 ай бұрын

Your brain on postmodernism.@@Genevievealicex

@Topquark13

3 ай бұрын

Matt, and Jamie know this also, but can't take biology's side since they would be fired and financially ruined. Jamie was tongue tied, because he could not make a simple slip of the lip, for he would be gone. I love how Matt gets angry. He's sick of this whole trans trend, and he has to lie Everytime. That would make anyone pissed off.

@heldinahtmlhell

3 ай бұрын

@@Topquark13 Lol. Matt's "girlfriend" is a transformer with an OnlyThots. He's all in on it. He isn't pretending in any way.

Here's the thing, I can't mount a very strong defense of transgender identities, because i'm not an expert on the topic. Here's another thing, I can just about guarantee that anyone who thinks being trans isn't "a thing" also isn't an expert. Go listen to the experts and see what the consensus is.

@heldinahtmlhell

5 ай бұрын

It isn't a thing. You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

"you can call yourself whatever you want, as long as you call me *A BIGOT!"* -- CLAY

Utter and complete logic FAIL, I expect better from the hosts.

Matt is dating a trans. Hm

@JohnnyNada

5 ай бұрын

Disgusting

And Matt said something totally at odds with reality. Gender identity is NOT AT ODDS with sex traits. That is a POLITICAL assertion. Sex traits ARE gender identity. In reality. I know that is at odds with the current feelings-don’t-care-about-facts milieu, but reality doesn’t care about social justice nonsense. Plumbing equals sex equals gender identity.

@joethestrat

5 жыл бұрын

@Deceiver I'd like you to link me the hundreds. I'd read them all.

Ah...This was rather disappointing. I expected a civil and intellectual argument, but all I saw was an emotional outburst by the bald guy. The caller did seem to be on an attack mode because the topic and even a bit rude towards the trans but still he did very much seem to want to have proper dialogue and dealing with him in such a manner doesn't get you nowhere and in my eyes, You looked just like your thiest callers by throwing a tantrum, unveiling to be criticized.

Jamie, you have my respect for handling all of this. Including any mistakes maybe, but I see your pain.

What a solid counter argument from Dillahunty here. “You’re a bigot” is about the only kind of response these idiots can make.

@markhackett2302

4 жыл бұрын

What argument is needed when the caller just had assertion?

@mattclayer6541

4 жыл бұрын

@@markhackett2302 There are lots of better arguments, than an obnoxious smear.

@markhackett2302

4 жыл бұрын

@@mattclayer6541 Mark Hackett 5 hours ago @Matt Clayer Yes, there is. However, there is no better argument for a bigot than pointing out they are a bigot and nopeing out of their insane ranting.

The comment section is a good example of how atheism isn’t a movement with central beliefs. It’s just the lack of a belief in god. We all know this isn’t THE video people should watch to educate themselves on why trans people do exist and should have their gender recognized the same way cis people do. This is similar to one of the call videos that’s just a few minutes long where a guy is just being racist so Matt hangs up. If someone is so offended by Matt calling this caller a bigot, I would recommend they do more research on how sex, gender, and gender expression are all different things.

@r4tb4st4rd7

4 жыл бұрын

For context, I used to be a conservative Christian and terf. I lost the conservatism, then the TERF identification, and then the belief in a god. I educated myself on trans issues and engaged with a little something called “listening honestly to people I don’t agree with”

666 views!? Gonna ignore that lol

@passpace10

5 жыл бұрын

KarpKomet what does 666 mean???

@DJ-73

5 жыл бұрын

@@passpace10 it's suppose to be the mark of the beast

@BenHerbivore

5 жыл бұрын

You realize that EVERY VIDEO with at least 666 views has had that number, right? I assume you're joking but religious people really are that stupid.

At this point the aca should just be renamed the trans community of Austin

@MRLL9292

5 жыл бұрын

You can see the fear in their eyes as soon as the transgenders subject is mentioned. They don't want to get pushed under the bus like young Stephen did.

@johnjohn2570

5 жыл бұрын

Is that a bad thing

@DeedlyDood

5 жыл бұрын

There is nothing wrong with having views outside of your main one. I am part of many communities. If someone said they loved slavery and insisted that we bring it back in full, then I would lose the respect of ANY community that didn't speak out against it. It's the same thing here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being part of the LGBTQIA+ community. Replace it with slavery and you have the same shit going on now. People need to take a strong stance against issues like this. The problem however, is that the ACA put out a knee jerk reaction before thoroughly thinking it through. That is a problem, which both sides have addressed. Conclusion: If a person asks about a topic outside of atheism, that does fit into humanism, the ACA damn well better answer it.

@orsonzedd

5 жыл бұрын

Wow look at all these bigots who dont get what humanism is about

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@@orsonzedd humanism isnt the basis of skepticism.

Wow Matt. People disagree with him on this...you’re now a bigot. I hate this line of reason. He’s a great guy on the god topic. Hope he sticks to that

@forallthestupidshit3550

4 жыл бұрын

It's also disagreeing with medical science. That guy is a biggot

I know someone that thinks this way too, I tell him to research something before trying to address it. But...he doesn’t budge 🤦‍♂️ now he’s a former friend with dishonest argumentative skills

@vinesco5270

5 жыл бұрын

What exactly is the reseach saying differently than what clay is saying?

@chickenmane

5 жыл бұрын

The only “research” is figuring out all the different names they can call someone who disagrees with them.

@Frankya92

5 жыл бұрын

^^^ I never said I was knowledgeable in this if anything I’m acknowledging that when someone hasn’t looked into a topic enough then one should be honest enough to look into it before getting involved into conversation. And Matt did try to address the whole chromosome part that clay was critical about, but I have a feeling that’s a whole other subject in the matter. As for the rest I concur that they need to present more info instead of just throwing shade. Even though I greatly admire the logic that Matt and the rest of the ACA adhere to, one of my biggest critiques towards them lately is that they need to be more clear on certain subjects such as these and not try to resort to ad hominems like they themselves don’t like.

@chickenmane

5 жыл бұрын

@Deceiver nobody cares about your made up research

@MrKit9

5 жыл бұрын

@@chickenmane I find that people who ignore facts are worthless. You're worthless.

I am gay (alicevana is alice in chains and Nirvana, the rocks groups), but I NEVER to the grouping of trans and gay. They are such different issue

Why is this so hard for people to understand? Gender expression is not even close to someone saying they're a dog. Or an attack helicopter.

@Tenebean

5 жыл бұрын

Sometimes it can be. There's people who believe in gender mysticism, such as two-spirits and other woo crap. The issue here is that the caller is clearly ignorant on what transgenderism/gender dysphoria is, and it's blatantly obvious that he put zero effort into researching this topic. He's entitled to his opinions, but he's not entitled to his facts, and we have mountains of evidence that show that gender dysphoria is an empirically quantifiable thing. If he disagrees with that, he disagrees with a neurological fact, thus making him willfully ignorant and outright delusional. Now he can disagree with the act of transitioning, which wouldn't mattre, because that's simply his opinion, or he could disagree that transgender people are still their biological sex which, albeit true, is irrelevant aswell, because we refer to trans people as the gender they wish to be simply out of kindness, compassion and formality, or sometimes even respect. If he wishes to be disrespectful in that regard, okay, fine. It's not illegal to be an asshole, but he shouldn't be surprised if not too many people wish to speak to assholes.

@SelcraigClimbs

5 жыл бұрын

Hmmm. I barely care about these sorts of issues because in my worldview all living things are revered. But it seems to me there may be a slippery slope if people identify *as* the gender expression. A Male can express their gender in a feminine way, but this does not mean they are female. Once they identify as the process of subjective expression it can lead to a "justifiable" line of reasoning that allows for animal-kin, furries etc.

@Tenebean

5 жыл бұрын

@@SelcraigClimbs You're making a bit of a miscategorization error there methinks. Identifying as feminine and identifying as a woman aren't the same thing. Now clearly, if one identifies as X doesn't mean that they are *actually* X, but for the sake of formality, we simply refer to them as such. The debate whether they actually are the thing they identify as is a completely seperate one that does need proper justification or reasoning. To give a more concrete example, I accept people being transgender because there is overwhelming evidence of gender dysphoria being a neurological phenomenon. I don't accept otherkin because they cannot empirically provide evidence of their ethereal wings/tails/appendeges. It's on them to present a framework where we can distinguish the ethereal from the non-existent. Once they do so, I will accept otherkin as an actual thing. However, in BOTH cases, I will refer to people as they wish to be refered to, simply because it's the formal thing to do. Me refering to them as otherkin, however, does NOT imply endorsement of such.

@CrazyKingJammy

5 жыл бұрын

Barry McCockinner express yourself how you want. But where is the fuss coming from? Everyone goes though their troubles. To say trans gender gets more troubles for their expression is bullshit. We all have our own legal and life hurdles. We are all human. No need to go about trying to group ourselves separate from just being human. Simple.

@SelcraigClimbs

5 жыл бұрын

@@Tenebean I'm a little confused monsieur, as it seems you're saying exactly what I mean. Though I'll ask this for clarity; do you think there's a difference between gender expression and someone identifying as -insert sex here- ? I agree with all of your points and I too refer to people as they wish to be referred, even though I may disagree that they are actually the biological category they claim to be. Perhaps it gets murky when you enter the realms of potentially enabling delusional beliefs. So if gender dysphoria is a neurological condition I'm not sure it would be the right move to make to stoke that belief, just like it could be harmful to say that the delusions of a schizophrenic are real extant phenomena

Wow Matt turns into a total theist for the trans issue.

@mariomiceli9663

Жыл бұрын

Its embarrassing

@Despisefundamentalists-cm5dv

Жыл бұрын

Spot on. He went straight to insults for nothing.

@isaacnelson77

Жыл бұрын

No wonder he's is in a relationship with a trans. I am surprised too Matt is technically gay lol

@mariomiceli9663

Жыл бұрын

@@isaacnelson77 .....what? Hes sleeping with a male? How do you know this?

@Despisefundamentalists-cm5dv

Жыл бұрын

@@isaacnelson77 OK I get it now.

It's all well and good saying that whatever an individual chooses to identify as is upto them and I get that. However we all live in societies together. How do we as a society deal with people not conforming to traditional gender identities in such situations as public bathrooms, changing rooms etc. Should people get this treatment on NHS in the UK? Etc etc. Lots of tough questions surround this issue and anyone who says you should just totally accept or reject this issue and the people involved are IMO wrong to do so. Having said all that above, I should point out my position is as an atheist and humanist. I hold no moral objection to anyone because of their sexuality or identity and feel empathy towards those who have genuinely suffered due to their sexuality or gender identity.

@intersexoxxy6846

5 жыл бұрын

Transgenderism is nothing new. The Native Americans recognized and celebrated two spirit people (indigenous LGBT) for CENTURIES ON THIS LAND way before the european Christians murdered most of them and forced Christianity on those that were left. Also the Hijras (intersex, transgender people) were accepted and recognized in India until it was colonized. So societies can deal with it, it' just that they refuse to educate themselves because of what they have been taught way of religion.

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@@intersexoxxy6846 yeah they believed in spirits and the like as well. Doesnt mean they're right.

@intersexoxxy6846

5 жыл бұрын

@@litozway617 Who cares if they were right or wrong?? They recognized and accepted this MUCH LONGER than America has been a country. It doesn't matter if others think it's right or wrong because it actually worked for them. Interference from outsiders is what destroyed and erased their culture and traditions and THAT is WRONG.

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@@intersexoxxy6846 like I said. Just because they did things in the past and excepted them doesnt make it right. Slavery was accepted too.... in many nations in history. Doesnt make it right. Dont bring up the past or other civilizations as your argument. Let's talk about our society and science. Something natives also didnt use.

@intersexoxxy6846

5 жыл бұрын

@@litozway617Doesn't make it right?? Listen bigot, who are you to say a culture FULL OF EQUALITY ways were wrong because there is no science to prove it?? Why the hell would they even need science for transgenderism which they ACCEPTED and was a part of their culture for CENTURIES?? They weren't having any problems with it (diseases, rape, pedophillia, depression, suicide, etc...). They have to use science nowadays because of religion and it's bigoted influence on governments and cultures.... but before colonization, it wasn't needed because transgender was ACCEPTED. And how in the hell are you comparing Native culture of freedom for all to cultures that believed in enslaving and demeaning people??

Its crazy how irrational matt gets when people disagree with his position on the trans issue.

@GoodBrotherGrimm

11 ай бұрын

It's crazy that grown adults will get so irrational and emotional over what fucking clothes people wear. It's honestly embarrassing.

@sinistersoul7238

11 ай бұрын

@@GoodBrotherGrimm sure, I agree. That doesn't change what I said. Matt can handle the most vial, hateful, theist. However when someone disagrees with him on the trans issue he basically turns into a theist. Ad hominem attacks and the like, most of the time he just craps on the person even if they have a genuine point. Like men in women's sports.

@bybluechip

11 ай бұрын

​@GoodBrotherGrimm nobody gives a f until you involve their kid's or tell others that they must accommodate your bullshit.

I have enough shit going on in my life to worry about what someone wants to call themselves. You should too.

@user-qn6ke3ep8j

5 жыл бұрын

well if all they wanted is to be called something specific I guess I will go along with that. But it's not only that is it?

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@Alec Wood they want to go against women and beat them at sports instead of just having a transgender league.

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

Maybe some unearthed biased hatred for the beings they'll never fully become perhaps?

@vinesco5270

5 жыл бұрын

But youre labeled a bigot if you dont go along with their imaginary gender and pronouns. Is that fair? Why should society be intellectually dishonest just to make trans people feel better?

@michaelrch

5 жыл бұрын

Vin Esco It's not dishonest. I used to be pretty much on your side but then I took some investigate as I was pretty sure that I didn't want to agree with Ben Shapiro without checking. You are missing the distinction between biological sex assigned at birth and gender expression. It's really not obvious though. It takes some attention to understand. Have you seen any videos by Contrapoints? If not, I highly recommend that channel.

Clay is right though. It is like it is with religion. Except for the opposite reason. Clay doesn't understand the science on the matter so he reject the science.

@ianosgnatiuc

5 жыл бұрын

I don't think there's any "science" there.

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@The Ashbringer then watch RRs last video and debate his logic then because I believe he stands with RR

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@The Ashbringer imma twist it on you lol see how dumb this sounds. " I'm Christian, I dont have to watch someone's interpretation of my life and God because I live it. I have been baptized and felt the glory of God in my mind and it literally changes everything about you. People need to read the bible more and research on what God being in your life is really like. I'm the expert, not Matt dilahunty ".

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@The Ashbringer lmao cells dont change

@litozway617

5 жыл бұрын

@The Ashbringer how can you say your cells and atoms have changed. The only thing that's changed is you cut off you're gonads thus decreasing your testosterone, changes your muscle and density a bit but nowhere close to a REAL woman. You're still XY chromosomes and if your DNA was left at a crime scene they'd be looking for a man.

An open comment to Rugg Gherkinafishy - Yo, Rugg!! Calling someone you've just met a bigot is way out of line. Like it or not, Clay does have a point. Science tells us that there are two genders. This nonsense about calling a transgender person "they" is ridiculous. These people are not royalty, they're either male or female.

I don't believe in painting your car. Your car was born blue and it doesn't matter how much you want it to be red you can't magically change it's colour just by painting it. You can paint it if you want, but if you're asking me to refer to your car as a "red car" i'm not going to do it because that's intellectually dishonest. Speaking of intellectual honesty, you can't just say that your car is now a dog, right?!

@stasi9949

4 жыл бұрын

That's not a good analogy for transgenderism at all...

@notthefather3919

3 жыл бұрын

So you're comparing trans people to cars? You're saying transition is a paint job? Really? Well ok then.

@rs72098

5 ай бұрын

​@@notthefather3919He's making an analogy. You atheists make arguments like this against religous people all the time, so this is no different.

@heldinahtmlhell

5 ай бұрын

LMAO. Some of the shit people come up with to try to rationalise insane beliefs is hilarious.

How amazing is it that PZ Myers today banned Matt for being a transphobe...

@BenHerbivore

5 жыл бұрын

I can't find tgis content anywhere. What happened or where can U find?

@petri2767

5 жыл бұрын

@@BenHerbivore ACA was banned from freethoughtblogs

clay, watch 9 months that made you on netflix

"Trans isn't real" Me: Mr. Stark, I don't feel so good

Matt's intelligence & rationality disappears when he becomes 'woke'. Matt just found another religion.