one thing I learned, during my brief stint as an employee at a summer camp occasionally working in the forge, that "skinner" shape it just the natural shape a blade takes when you hammer a bevel into a piece of barstock. rather convenient in that regard, since it's a very useful shape for the once-prolific-industry of skinning big game

The distinctive brass pommel is from an Ames U.S. Model 1840 Field Artillery enlisted man''s sword, not a Model 1860 US cavalry saber. The shape of the ribbed wooden grip is also the 1840 model, and the back of the M1840 blade is flat whereas the M1860 blade back is rounded. I liked your discussion about the skinning knives, Evan.

@wsmvolunteers8588

8 ай бұрын

Thank you! I am always appreciative of people who correct my mistakes. I will take another look at that one.

@evangreen9430

8 ай бұрын

I pulled the artifact from storage. Definitely has a flat back to the blade. And the grip tapers thicker towards the blade. Subtle difference in the contour of the pommel between this and the 1840 Cavalry model. U.S. Swords by Arthur Wyllie has U.S. Model 1840 Light Artillery enlisted man's sword. Is that the same as Field Artillery? Obviously swords are out of my wheelhouse. You have a good eye to make that I.D. from the video. What did you see as the obvious differences? Again, thanks for the education.

@ThisOldHelmet

8 ай бұрын

I just learned something!

@user-rp7kh2bk4q

7 ай бұрын

The narrow edge around the pommel's oval shaped top probably has initials of the factory inspector. Inspectors names and dates are available for research on the internet. The markings U.S., date, and inspector initials are also on the blade ricasso as well as Ames company markings. Yours was disassembled to remove the heavy brass guard to replace it with the present cross-guard. The blade tail was originally neatly peened to the pommel. I see the excess blade portion now sticks out over the pommel. Antique gun collectors call unofficially shortened military firearms "the work of Bubba" so sword collectors might care to borrow the term!

@evangreen9430

7 ай бұрын

@@user-rp7kh2bk4q Thank you! There no visible markings on the blade or the pommel. I am familiar with Bubba's work. We have a couple of examples in the firearms collection. Sometimes, as perhaps in the case of this artifact, Bubba made do with what he had to work with to meet his needs. I started in my work admiring the "safe queens" in perfect condition. I have come to like those items that were used as everyday tools and show the results. Most frustrating is those firearms that have been "restored, refurbished, scrubbed with a wire wheel." Years of patina and often markings obliterated.

My first "survival" knife was actually a carbon steel chefs knife (bought for $2 at a flea market) that worked very well indeed and I only replaced it because I started to feel silly using it among all my peers who had Buck sheath knives and the like, now I'm in my 50's and it doesn't bother me anymore.

Just found your channel. Really informative. Thank you very much!

Very informative. Excellent presentation.

Really enjoy your presentations. Thank you..

@wsmvolunteers8588

8 ай бұрын

You're welcome. I appreciate your interest.

Love it ! I use a “ modern” Green River (they claim the design dates back to 1834 ) 5”it’s my go to for food prep , does a great job ! Carbon steel , takes and holds an edge like a champ . I’d not complain if I could get the same knife in a good 420 stainless , but I use what I’ve got . Thanks for the video !

Nice informative video.. as a collector of knives it was very interesting.. thank you

Thanks for another great knife video. I really enjoy seeing those old I. WILSON knives. Considering the quantity that were produced and shipped to the states and how rarely I see them, I tend to think they mostly got used up. The others were interesting also. Particularly the cut down Saber. That lever lock folding knife looks very 1920s-30s to me. I've seen tons of antique lever lock folders with the lever on the side of the bolster but very few with the lever on the back. That would be an interesting one to try to track down. That foster bros knife is fairly common. If I remember correctly they were in business from the late 1870s to the 1950s in New York. They made a lot of knives for our military in various styles also. Thanks again P.s. remember, those old knives in grandma's kitchen drawer might just be interesting historical relics.

@wsmvolunteers8588

8 ай бұрын

Yes, we have a couple of kitchen knives from my wife's grandmother that have been sharpened almost to oblivion.

How awesome, such a great work 👏👏

Great content! Thank you!

The term "Bowie" knife, did not become popular until after the fight at the Alamo. Men going west wanted a knife like James Bowie had. Which no one really knew what it looked like. But maybe Jim Bowie's brother, kind of made a design to honor his brother? No one will ever know for sure. But the Bowie knife was primarily a "Fighting" knife. So you wanted a long blade for reach. I've been collecting and learning about knives since the mid 80's, and I truly love a good knife. Growing up hunting Deer and Antelope in Wyoming, I learned the value of a good sharp short easy to handle knife. Oh, and I have three Green River Knives I bought way back in the 80's. Still very good and useful knives in the Kitchen.

One of the early sayings was, " I stuck him clear up to the Green River".. The Green River logo was at the Bolster on the blade.

@diggingthewest7981

7 ай бұрын

That was none other than "Uncle" Dick Wooten. Dick and some other frontiersmen got into a fight with mexicans while attending a fandango in Las Vegas, New Mexico. No doubt a drunken brawl knowing Wootens colorful life.

Very interesting collection of real working knives. Many of those patterns are still in production and heavy use to this day. I use Ontario "Old Hickory" cleaver, skinning and butcher knives because I can keep the edges of the 1095 carbon steel blades sharp with a leather strop while using them and I have a stainless Victorinox 5" flexible boning knife that is my go-to for final processing of cleaned game and livestock. Most of those knives would feel right at home in any 19th century fur camp. As much as I love the look of the Wolstenholm Bowie knife, you can tell it saw very little actual use. I have a 19th century Wolstenholm farrier's blade with a stag handle that has seen it's share of use. I would still use it if I wasn't afraid to damage it, but my "new" stainless and plastic farriers knife does a great job and no one will cry if it get lost or damaged.

@wsmvolunteers8588

8 ай бұрын

Thanks for your comments. I should have mentioned the Wolstenholm Bowie was specifically designed as fighting implement. While it could be used for other purposes, it was primarily a backup weapon in the days of single shot firearms or slow to load percussion repeaters.

Richest most informing knife history video ever watched. Thank you sir.

@evangreen9430

7 ай бұрын

I appreciate your support!

Interesting clip. Great information about working knives being butchery knives on the frontier. I had no idea.

I kind of collect old working knives like this .. my criteria is I have to be able to use them (fine with carbon steel rustibe blades) just dry them before storage!! And I like them cheap .. ssooo many deal at garage sales and 2nd hand store. I have several vaguely similar blades in my "collection" .. many of which I use weekly :)

Pretty neat! I like those old skinner profiles.

Great show !

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Love the channel.

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for your support.

3:18 In Republic of Georgia we modify cheap knives like that to hollow out carrot rounds. Carrots with walnuts.

@frakismaximus3052

7 ай бұрын

Sounds tasty 😋

Since I was a boy I always liked knives. In my youth all the boys carried pocket knives. Three years ago for my 75 birthday I wanted to buy a British war dagger but didn't like the price so I made my own. Long story shorten I now have made 52 fixed blade knives mostly Bowie style but a couple daggers and short swords. I enjoy your videos very much and look forward to watching all of them. Your videos are always worth a big thumbs up👍

@evangreen9430

6 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment. I'm glad you like the videos. I would love to see some of your knives. When I was in high school in the 1960s, the vocational agriculture teacher would ask to inspect our pocket knives and give a good grade to those who kept them sharp. Time change.

Knives have never gone obsolete. They will never go obsolete knives don’t run out of bullets

Always interesting videos

@wsmvolunteers8588

8 ай бұрын

Thanks. I've learned a lot in the last five years and glad to share it with people who are interested in some of the same things.

Sheffield rivaled Solingen for its quality of steel; probably the 2 finest sources of steel in the world. If you have a knife with a Sheffield mark, you have some of the best steel known to man. I was fortunate to get my hands on a J. Nowill & Sons 3rd pattern Fairbairn Sykes for a steal of a price. Probably the finest steel of all the knives I own. Will hold a wicked edge and sings when you flick the blade.

I recently gave a museum in Smethport, Pa a skinner from Sheffield just like this one along with a Wilson butcher that my family used after they settled in McKean county, Pa. from Germany, hence why I donated to local museum.

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for your donation to a local museum. I have given many family artifacts to the museum in my home town where they will be preserved and occasionally displayed. Good job on your part.

I watched this while breaking in a new pocket knife (repeatedly opening and closing to wear in the washers and lock.) and guess I got too engrossed in the video and ended up nicking myself pretty well on my middlefinger. so thanks for making an engaging video

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

When I was a kid and infatuated with knives, my mom said one wasn't really mine until I cut myself with it. Heal up!

Great information. Thank you. I own a Green River Knife.

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

Thanks! I have a couple in my personal collection. There is a Green River in Wyoming. I'm sure you know it's not the one associated with the knives.

Sheffield hand forged knifes like these were made by " Little Mesters", these Mesters were poorly paid but highly skilled knife craftsmen in small workshops, the knife blades after hardened and sharpened by the Mesters but were polished by "Buffer Girls" , buffing the metal was a very dirty job of polishing the blades to a mirror finish, you didn't mess with the buffer Girls, a kind hearted bunch of women but they did not stand fools gladly. Bless em.

Thanks. I love the old style trade knives. I have a Russell 4215 Hunter. A great knife today that has been made continuously since 1834. 🔪🎸

@user-ly9nm3wt1r

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, I’ve got one , and love it , use it all the time , it will take ,and hold a razor edge pretty darn good , it’s one of my go to knives .

GREAT VIDEO!

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for your support.

ROFL! I have a knife like your third one, sharpened into a wisp of itself ... it's still used for cutting whole chickens into fryer pieces. It was my great-grandfather's and it's seen heavy use. I also have a knife shaped like the one at 4:37, but with a bone or antler handle on it. I'm not sure whose it was, it's just been in the kitchen.

I noticed that you didn’t have any “bowl” knives in the trade knife variations. I have found a decent number on early French trade sites (N. Michigan)

The common French knife in literally everyone's kitchen also was also used heavily on the frontier.

These knives probably have more story than any fighting knife

@wsmvolunteers8588

8 ай бұрын

As I've mentioned in regard to firearms, I've come to appreciate the everyday working tools of the common people with the wear and tear of daily use. I'm planning on a future video of guns that have been fixed and repaired in the field or at home. Anything necessary to keep something working without spending money.

Very interesting! Love the Wostenholm one and the Indian one.😁

I love those old trade knives. I have several that are trade knife patterns (Ontario Knife company) and at least one Green River knife that may very well have come west with my great great (great?) grandparents on the wagon train. It's old, with that old style workmanship that is so difficult to replicate. Even modern hand-made knives usually see a belt grinder at some point, and it leaves a distinctive shape and profile. They are enjoyable to use, and keep a good edge. Thank you for the video.

The folding pocket knife could be French as they used this style of knife with the ring pull

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

I will check into that reference. Thanks. Knives are an interest, but I'm still learning.

@UDTGHOST420

7 ай бұрын

I think the folding knife might be german . But I'm not 100 %

@frakismaximus3052

7 ай бұрын

​@udtghost3860 I too am getting a strong German vibe. Maybe it's reminding me of the WW II German paratroopers knives.

That last knife, the folding one. The latch at least is a Spanish design, dating from the early 1800's. As for the blade, no idea.

George Wostenholm knives are still considered one of the better Sheffield makes, here in the UK. That bowie looks like a quality knife. I have a fine 1950s bread knfe and two or three antique bone handle slipjoint knives by the same company.

very interesting

Also the story of the Bowie knife origin is pretty interesting too and also you got so many new knife designs because even though they knew it was called the Bowie knife no one really knew what it looked like except for second-hand descriptions or verbal accounts is what I was led to believe but I'm no historian so I could be mistaken but it was still an interesting story.

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

I agree. There is no record of what Jim Bowie used at the Sandbar fight or at the Alamo or what Rezin Bowie designed.

@danewood2309

7 ай бұрын

@@wsmvolunteers8588 True but not entirely true , there is a signed and notarised account from the early 1800s from the period that Rezin Bowie lived in Avoyelles Parish by Public notary Herzehian Dunham , which states the hunting knife designed by Rezin Bowie and made by the Blacksmith Jesse Clifft was as akin to a Butchers knife, thin in cross section, about 9 inches long in blade, with no guard or Silver ornament, this apparently was the first knife given to James Bowie, witnesses to the infamous sandbar fight describe James Bowies Knife as a "large butchers Knife" ..

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

@@danewood2309 You are correct. I should have been more diligent in my research but was relying on a faulty memory. Multiple accounts mention a "butcher" style knife. They may be relying on the same source documents, possibly yours. The details of the brawl following the duel on the Sandbar seem consistent as to participants, the actions, the wounds, and those killed. I imagine we would agree that the Bowie's Sandbar knife probably didn't resemble the ones you can buy today at WalMart for $29.95. Again, thank you for your comment. The exchange of information is appreciated and I enjoy this even when I'm shown to be off base in my statements.

@longrider42

3 ай бұрын

@@danewood2309 Right in One!

The knives made in Sheffield London UK were the best knives made and are still to this day

love the knife vids. Thanks

Awesome knives. I like to see some of Dave canterburys trade knives and there’s some knife makers that make some great reproductions of French trade knives like Jeff White. Also Foster Bros are fairly well known I think I’ve come across a good bunch of their meat cleavers

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

Our knife collection is lacking those makers. Of course knives were used until no blade was left.

@longrider42

3 ай бұрын

Green River knives are still made today, in the USA, from American made steel. Great knives.

What were the typical sharpening instruments back then?

@longrider42

3 ай бұрын

They had wet stones back then. Plus files. Also you could use a nicely smoothed River Rock. Oh, and there where sharpening wheels. I also collect knives, and live in Wyoming.

interesting, why do you not have a Hudson Bay pattern knife in your frontier collection.

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

We don't have funds to purchase one but would happily accept a donation.

Era? Which era? I don't hear any dates being attributed to these blades. Title states 18th & 19th century, but all these look like 19th century going by the way the handles are secured. Am I wrong? I had hoped to learn something here. Keith.

@evangreen9430

7 ай бұрын

As you probably know, trade items including knives, muskets, metal pots, etc, were introduced to the North American fur business in the 17th century. You are correct that most of these knives are 19th century with the possible exception of the handmade one which is impossible to date. I apologise if the title was misleading and left you uninformed.

3:20. So I've seen a custom knife maker make a knife exactly like this. It was well over $200. I thought the man was out of his damn mind.

@longrider42

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, custom knife makes are artists, and often very happy with the things they make. I feel sorry for the people who get suckered into buying a "Custom" made knife.

3:24 .. That would be BOSSS for coring apples or tomatoes!! :)

I wonder if there’s any sharpening stones in the museum ?

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

I don't know. I will check and get back to you. We have over 75,000 artifacts in the collection, about 1.5% on exhibit at any one time, the rest in secure storage. I bet there are some whetstones in there.

@propblast82nd

7 ай бұрын

@@wsmvolunteers8588 Thanks, amazing our ancestors did so much with so little 👍🇺🇸

@evangreen9430

7 ай бұрын

We have about a dozen. Two are identified commercial stones. A couple are not marked. One is broken. Others are clearly native stone but worn to indicate they were used for sharpening a knife or other tool. PIKE EXTRA WASHITA STONE..MADE IN USA..FINE HARD GRIT ADAPTED FOR MECHANICS..SMOOTH EDGE IS PREFERRED TO A QUICK EDGE..OIL..IS BEST". Honing stone for knives and other cutlery. Paper label on one side badly torn. Stone is rectangular is shape, grey in color, and in fine shape. Rectangular, dark gray carborundum stone. It is an abrasive material made of silicon carbide with a smooth and a coarse side. On one edge is a gold oval with faint red and black print "CARBORUNDUM/ SHARPENING STONE/ MFD BY THE CARBORUNDUM CO./ NIAGARA FALLS, N.Y. U.S.A."

What's the point of keeping them covered in rust which slowly destroys them?

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

We tend to deal with active rust but leave the patina alone. These have patina but no active rust. But thanks for your question and concern. Back before there were trained museum curators, some of our firearms were scrubbed with a wire wheel to make the "attractive" for display. We take precautions to prevent degradation of the artifact without disturbing evidence of age and use.

@4Sandrix

7 ай бұрын

@@wsmvolunteers8588 Thanks for your elaborative answer.

Evan, weather it's moccasins, swords, book's, firearms or knives you knock it out of the ballpark!

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

Thank you. I enjoy doing the videos.

Bowie knives were not even invented until 1828-1830. And even then not all "Bowie knives" had the concave, double-edged, sharpened point we call a Bowie today. Mountain men bought "Green River" type knives by the dozens. Simple single edged blades 5" or so long.They wore out, or trappers dropped them in the river, or traded them to Indians. Now trappers *might* have carried some kind of longer knife. Long fighting knives were long popular in Mexico. And large utility knives, called "butcher knives", existed long before the Bowie.

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment. I agree with you. Edged weapons for work and defense/offense have been around since the Bronze Age.

The knife you refer to as a Bowie knife looks more like the offspring between A Bowie and a seax to me, with more allegiance to the seax. But, with total disclosure, the knife from the old, old TV Jim Bowie program is what a Bowie knife should look like to me.

@mulepowerforge

8 ай бұрын

The blade shape definitely reminded me of a seax but I’ve heard that while there are defining characteristics, the blade shape between bowies and seaxs are basically the same. I suppose in some instances that would be the case but looking at historical seaxs compared to bowies there is a noticeable difference in blade profile.

@evangreen9430

8 ай бұрын

I used the term "Bowie" loosely and possibly incorrectly. There are as I'm sure you know, many different styles of fighting knives popular in the 19th Century. A backup weapon in the era of single shot firearms. A defensive or offensive weapon when concealed.

@dooleyfussle8634

7 ай бұрын

The history of that particular manufacturer (George Wosterholm[sp?]) In Shefield England includes huge shipments to the US of these "Bowies". This was apparently a European interpretation of the knife and sold in large quantities. It is said to have made this business's fortune. I have a small collection of their "oil the hinge" pocket knives.

It’s nice to see some thinner knives. Most older knives are a lot thinner. What I don’t like about the trend with makers today is the excessive thickness of steel stock used. Knives rarely, if ever, need to be over 3mm - 1/8” as cutting ability is reduced significantly. Geometry cuts, and we can see this with a dead blunt butter knife as it slices through many things with ease. A bayonet, sure, that’s fine but how many of us need bayonets today? 😂 It’s not uncommon to see 5 or 6mm - 3/16” - 1/4” blades today which to me is absolutely ridiculous. Edit: spelling errors.

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

I agree. I have a couple of stout knives but prefer the thinner blades for actual use.

Dayum my main OG playa Evan is back droppin dat kno ledge my ninjas! I wish I had all deez knives tho like boom boom u feel me tho? Like non a my enemies wud mess wit me if I had deez to pop upside da head real talk 🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿💥💥💥☝🏿🐐🐐🐐

@wsmvolunteers8588

8 ай бұрын

Where have you been, bigone? Didn't see a comment on the last couple of videos and was concerned.

@thebigone6071

8 ай бұрын

@@wsmvolunteers8588 yo my dawg I was chillin an laying low from da law g u kno dem cops always tryna bring me down so I gonna dip out from time 2 time. Keep droppin dat kno ledge my brotha 🙏🏿👍🏿☝🏿🐐💥💥

I make knives part-time; I really like these specimens. I think the bowie knives came from the Alamo and Rambo movies. All you really need is 3 inches to kill. That said, I think a frontiersman probably carried multiple knives. For skinning, fighting, fileting fish. Those tasks really use different blades. It can be done, but the task is more difficult.

Arkansas stone

Like your saying the Bowie knife is cool , but its not the best when skinning or butchering animals and I've noticed allot of the designs of normal everyday knives from the middle ages have continued through to today. Im a hunter and fisherman and I butcher all my own animals. But all the flash knives in museums are the flashy things that weren't used all the time

@kiwiprouddavids724

7 ай бұрын

Used to have a green river when I was a kid

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

I worked one summer many years ago as a tongue dropper in a slaughter house. Use a knife with the skinner blade profile. Sharpened on a belt sander every morning, tuned up with a steel. Big difference between working knives and knives for defense. Both are interesting to me. I lean toward the working versions.

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

@@kiwiprouddavids724 Cool knife. Many that I owned as a kid have gone missing over the years.

@kiwiprouddavids724

7 ай бұрын

@@wsmvolunteers8588 yeah man I'm completely with you there ,I'd love something expensive but often it's to much money for the abuse the knife takes so yes I learned towards the working knife. Can't beat a vitronox and the other one is custom made from old cross cut saw by friend of mine. Been into Bowie or clip point knives since I was a kid but the really big Bowie knives they cool and everything but a bit in practical

SHAPLEIGH'S HAMMER FORGED 1843 OLD HICKORY

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

Yup.

Crude.

Así están los de la cocina de mi casa y no les doy importancia

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

Sin embargo, creo que los pones en buen uso.

Kitchen knives won the West

@wsmvolunteers8588

7 ай бұрын

Movies and TV shows to the contrary. Not a lot of romance in a basic kitchen knife, but you are absolutely correct.