CORRECTION: At 08:42 I meant to say "Frankston" and not "Cranbourne", sorry for the confusion!

@chappo91rulz

Жыл бұрын

Was just gonna comment and say don't you mean Frankston as Cranbourne will have the HCMTs

@movenlee9274

7 ай бұрын

I thought that HCMTs work on Franston line as well

@thenetheriteminecart384

3 ай бұрын

Good the X'Trapolis 2.0 will get better suspention and won't be another X'Trampoline like the X'Trapolis 100's.

I'm actually quite surprised on how similar the train is to a HCMT rather then being a facelifted xtrap 100.

@davidunwin7868

Жыл бұрын

Yeh, it looks like Alstom just copied Downer/Evolution Rail.

@mallenwho

Жыл бұрын

The Xtrap naming comes largely from the chassis and electrical/control infrastructure powering the train, similar to how so many different trams globally are Flexcity models. The similarities to the HCMT are largely in terms of digital displays and systems, and interior furniture. For the former, probably because they are literally using the same systems and you can see the packenham line loaded onto the screens in the video as a demo.

@jm56585

Жыл бұрын

feels more like a high capacity vlocity than a xtrap or hcmt imo

@GamerXe1

11 ай бұрын

The Xtroplis 100 will always be my favourite train

Looks good (with a few tweaks I'm sure it'll be great). It always fascinates me though, that no matter how slick the visuals are and how smooth the ride is, the announcements coming through the speakers often still sound like a distorted bee talking through a tin can.

@demonindenim

Жыл бұрын

ugh, yeah. i have to cover my ears, it's that loud and harsh every time. and i've noticed that the louder it is, the more inaudible it is.

My biggest issue with the HCMT is the harshness of the lighting - i despise that overly intense cold blue lighting. I would much rather a warmer colour, as well as lighting that dims slightly later in the evening

@mark_22222

11 ай бұрын

Wow that certainly is a first world problem. 😂😅

@xiuwenlee5208

11 ай бұрын

@@mark_22222 The train is servicing the first world, is it not??

@JoshwantsmaccasCharts

10 ай бұрын

I disagree with the harshness but that preference I guess, I very much agree that it should dim a bit at night, it's a bit bright at midnight if I am honest. Should be like what buses do (tho less extreme)

@bee_anchor

2 ай бұрын

I agree but unfortunately I would rather ensure the horrible, harsh light at night than the unsafe feeling I would get in dimmer light as a female at night

The problem with the audio is that it's not just the volume but also the clarity. I was shocked the first time I rode one of the new HCMT's and couldn't understand a word of the announcements, which had all the fidelity of a 1980's Hungry Jacks drive-thru intercom.

@philipmallis

Жыл бұрын

You're absolutely right, hopefully the audio on these new trains learns from these lessons

@Shimmy02

3 ай бұрын

It seems that they have converted the audio files to a low bitrate codec to save on file space and maybe cost but really it's not practical and sounds horrid onboard. Funny how the older stuff sounds better than the newer stuff. Going backwards Metro!

So they now have air suspension - which was introduced in 1972 on the Hitachi trains! The existing Xtraps were a backwood step and this just brings them up to date.

Nice video! I did love driving xtraps specially when they first came out, so much power, so much braking ability, always started running early cause they were so fast!

great video! Really glad to see the thought that's gone into the accessibility of the trains.

Awesome video as always Phil, totally agree with the display issues! Personally I'm not the biggest fan of the horizontal seats because they make me motion sick, but more capacity is always welcome

I just love your videos Phillip, watched every one since the first, All very watchable, informative and VERY well researched.

@philipmallis

Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much, glad you like them!

I have the same issue as with you with the destination displays on this. Although I'm hoping they're at least better than the ones that are on the HCMT. The slow fade between screens on the HCMT drives me mad. I think the seats in the X'Trap 2 are the same that went into those newer generation Vlocity units, just without the arm rest or tray table.

@shaunclarke94

Жыл бұрын

The slow fade is absolutely terrible. It effectively adds dead time to the display where you can't read anything from it. Even worse are the trams with the Hanover desto's which take like 5 seconds between page changes so it takes ages to read the full message.

@mitchul

Жыл бұрын

@@shaunclarke94 Yeah those Hanover ones on the trams are terrible. I'm fairly certain the Hanover software allows the user to speed up the changing of the pages.

@shaunclarke94

Жыл бұрын

@@mitchul of course it does. There's plenty of flexibility and options but they haven't touched it ever since it was deployed.

Very interesting, seems like a step forward, thanks Philip.

Thanks for the peek into the future Philip. Gosh it would be interesting to learn what feedback they get from all of you previewers. Great video as always. 👍

Excellent summary. And thanks for getting some pics of my bike, I totally forgot!

@philipmallis

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, and nice to see you there too!

This new train looks really promising, although the Comeng will always have more character IMO.

That's like the fourth person who I follow who got to have a look! Nice. The seats...I could take or leave. They're alright for short trips, but not from the end of the line! And I'm happy they're supplying jobs for the Ballarat community. E: ooh yeah, the front PID. Needs work.

07:02 WOAH Adelaide was used as a good example for something train related 🤯. Heck the BELAIR LINE was used as a good example! (not directly but it is the line with the most bikes and the same train class that he mentioned)

I also got lucky to visit this beautiful train. Hoping to see it soon in action.

🎉🎉I'm glad somebody is doing what you do. Please come to Brisbane and critique our "metro" bus

Great video and analysis Phil! It’s great to see how open the manufacturer and Government department were in surveying and consulting with all the user groups and surveying their needs.

Nice to see they let you in.

At 6:18 the panel with all the icons on the display, I noticed that the carriage numbers - which are similar to the HCMT carriages - were 8011, 8012, 8014, 8015 8017 & 8018. It looks like they have made provision to extend to 8 carriages by the addition of 8013 & 8016, like the HCMT can be extended to 10 carriages.

Good work Philip in spite of the GoPro saga. Hopefully some of the feedback people are providing will be actioned.

It is good to see these new trains in Melbourne that replace the old ones. Also to mentioned these also look pretty like the Perth train C series, which are also coming soon. The seat layout, seat design and internal passage information display is almost the same.

Awesome to see it dude

I hope they end up using the destination displays similar to that of the HCMT and the upgraded Siemens, those are much clearer. Also the passenger counters look good. Hoping eventually we have carriage estimations like that in other places. The doors too look nice and wide, and I hope we start going with consistent door positioning for future PSDs.

Overall sounds like a big upgrade! However, I'm concerned about those seats if the similar on the high capacity VLocity is anything to go by.

I found this very interesting, Thank you

Good review!

The doors between the carriages are most likely fire safety doors like on the HCMTs so they will be open during normal operation but will close in the event of a fire! :)

Interesting on the pasenger sensor. My understanding is Sydneys sensors work by a weight sensor on the suspension.

This does indeed look nicer than the renders, kind of with a similar face to some of the light rail-style vehicles. But big and blue. Accessibility is always a great mark ahead, and continuing that through to surrounding infrastructure to make it easier further needs to happen too. If Victoria sells any trains second-hand, can we please get them in Tasmania 😶

Gives me QLD NGR vibes. Pretty trains with great features, but they have some of the same issues when it comes to comfort for example.

Looks exciting. Shame I wasn’t offered to see the mock up. Most of the design looks great despite the compromises and I can’t wait to see them on the Melbourne network. My only greavence is that they won’t be on the Belgrave and Lilydale line, the first home of the x’trapolis but the north-south corridor desperately needs new equipment and there is nothing stopping the government ordering more of these trains like they did before.

The dynamic displays on the HCMTs don't have a tab along with it being greyed out when a station is being skipped. I'd imagine a small software tweak and it should be the same.

Melbourne loves grey in their buildings and train exteriors. It really puts me off. I prefer the current Xtrapolis blue and yellow

I wonder why they didn’t take inspiration from Copenhagen’s S-Tog city train for the in carriage bicycle zone? The Danes use a nifty spring-clasp thingy that does a good job of holding bikes upright & perpendicular from the carriage wall. This design holds a lot of bikes and works well. I can only assume there isn’t enough width in these new Victorian trains to permit such an option.

Cool video. Thanks. :)

I’m gonna say it - I think I love the exterior design. Front of the cabin looks kind of like Iron Man’s helmet 😂

Look great

They are getting around 25 sets of X’trapolis 2.0 trains on the Upfield, Craigieburn and Frankston Lines by 2026, replacing the Comeng Trains.

Those seats look super comfy, as long as you don't weigh any more than 45kg!

@emiliobraulio

Жыл бұрын

Disappointing if true. The Comengs have both thick seats and airbag suspension. The X’Trapolis 100 has thick seats but springs. The Siemens, HCMT and it looks like the X’Trapolis 2 will have airbag suspension but thin seats.

@JackStavris

Жыл бұрын

They are not comfy, they're ripped straight out of the refreshed Vlocity sets and are hard as a rock. The backrest is tall which is deceving, but the bottoms are not padded well and make for an uncomfertable trip, even a short one.

@kaelwd

Жыл бұрын

And as a tallish person the "headrest" looks like it would just push my upper back forward and force me to hunch.

@nickhiscock8948

Жыл бұрын

The seats also look narrower than other trains in Melbourne

Great. Thanks for showing me this I so love to build Melbourne train. Outta Lego for my Lego City. .😊

Nice one!

Personally I still think small sets that have cabs with walkways in the centre (like on older Japanese EMUs) are a good idea. That way you can shorten or extend sets when needed and still go through the entire train... Also they look cool lol

I hope these have a pleasant whistle

Excellent video man. Got a question for you, will these trains be operating on the Mernda/Hurstbridge lines? Also? Any idea if Siemens is making another train for Melbourne? I hope they will be

check out how the Canberra light rail handles bike storage. I have found it quite good to secure a bike during a trip. no strap is needed.

I think the font on the external displays is fine, the display just needs to be bigger to fill available space. It's bold enough. Surely they could get some better running lights than the circles embedded in the top. This would clear up space for a full width display. Unintegrated lights give me a 1980s car vibe

Thanks for another fab video, Philip! I actually really like the exterior design of these, and the MTM blue looks great with the contrast of the yellow highlights. The fab accessibility features are a big win too! My main worry after seeing this though is how similar internally they are to the HCMTs. I don't really understand the desire for high-backed seats in high capacity trains like these - it feels a bit too cocooned and makes having to sit next to someone feel a bit too... personal, idk. I think the seats you find in a current X'trap, Comeng or Siemens are actually pretty great for short and longer journeys alike, and help open up the carriage a bit - these trains have the widest corridor of any train on the network yet appear more cramped than the current X'trap. And all the seats running parallel along the trains really are too close - reminds me of when there are bunch of urinals too close together and every second one remains squeaky clean lol. But worst of all. Above anything else. Are the door 'buttons'. If they're the same as those on the HCMTs like I fear they are from these pictures, I'd rather not have the train at all. Just give. us. a. button. Not everything needs to be touch sensitive (as we're now learning from the last few years' craze of touch screens and buttons in car interiors). In a perfect world, I'd drag Comeng back from the bottom of the ocean and have a Comeng 2.0, but I guess we can't have everything! Can you tell I love Comeng?

@philipmallis

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! I also love the Comeng trains, but I also understand why they need to be phased out. Lots to learn from them as you say.

@Low760

Жыл бұрын

Low back seats suck for tall people, I've been been that comfortable in them.

@pep-167

Жыл бұрын

@@Low760 yeah but high back seats suck for shorter people

@demonindenim

Жыл бұрын

@@pep-167 how so?

@pep-167

Жыл бұрын

@@demonindenim like said in the video it feels too enclosed, and i tend to hit the back of my head on the metal on top of the seat

Doors between carriages are fire doors and will be open during normal operation.

@philipmallis

Жыл бұрын

Ah that makes sense, thanks very much for claryfying!

@gribbler1695

Жыл бұрын

Implying that they are triggered to close when fire is detected.

@carboyau

Жыл бұрын

@@gribbler1695 Yes. They will activate in response to significant smoke, but can be pulled open by anyone fleeing and will simply auto close behind you to reduce spread.

Noice! I wonder about the relationship between the roll-out of these gems and the electorates they'll serve... Unfortunately I live in a Safe Seat... 🥴

The seats look like the first refresh of the Vlocity, which are very hard and thin compared to their original design. Honestly I'd prefer HCMT style seats or even current X'Trap seats, both are softer than those refresh Vlocity seats. I like the interoir displays though, they look identical to the HCMT ones which are really good, especially when you arrive at a station and it tells you what door to use, good for if you're not familliar with a station you might need to get off at or if there's a last minute platform change. Also I hope that they fix the horn...sorry I mean whistle. The current X'Trap whistle, and as a result the HCMT one too is super obnoxious. I think going to a multi-tone one like the old Commeng one or even a Vlocity style one would be better. I don't need the ear rape when the train departs.

I see the Transperth C-Series has the same issue with the small desitnation signage on the front of the cab, from the videos that i have seen it doesn't look large like the A and B Series.

that train looks like the mix of X'Trapolis and Siemens train

I hope they keep the doors closed between carriages. One thing coming from Sydney was if someone was being a nuisance or a danger you could go up or downstairs to get away. Here you can be stuck with them.

6:23 This probably also uses the CCTV microphones to measure the decibel levels in each carriage! :)

These seats and windows remind me of the vlocity! Some other aspects also remind me of the HCMT. However I think in order to get a wider aisle it looks like they compromised seat width which I don't think is a good trade off.

@itechcircle9410

Жыл бұрын

*comprimised

@Alexander_Dunn

Жыл бұрын

@@itechcircle9410 mb, also I think it's actually "compromised"

@kierannelson2581

Жыл бұрын

This is what I don't get. If the aisle is wide enough for a pram or wheelchair, why compromise on seat width. I also don't understand the trend of individual seats rather than a bench style seat.

@Alexander_Dunn

Жыл бұрын

@@kierannelson2581 exactly.

@itechcircle9410

Жыл бұрын

@@Alexander_Dunn Oh ok 😅

The seating looks a really squishy especially the sideways seats. I was on the Cranny line yesterday due to Frankston being upgraded and those sideways seats really suck when you're jammed in.

The seats look more comfy than on HCMTs

If the Seimens nexus and Xtrapolis 100 had a baby

And the fitting out will be done by Alstom here in Ballarat Victoria

This is awesome to see, I'm super curious as to what the whistle/horn will sound like, is it the same as the HCMT trains? As someone who lives near a line with X'traps I'm interested to know what the new sounds will be like!

8:45 the Cranbourne line already has em, I believe instead it’s the Frankston.

Cant wait to tag this

Hey can you do a vid on the “F9” freeway, it really peaks my interest, as it looks like it would go past my family home in Montrose.

@philipmallis

Жыл бұрын

I'll add it to the list of possible topics, thanks for the suggestion

There really needs to be signage for scooters too, so frequently I get told I can't have my small scooter on a train even though it's 5 times smaller than a bike... It would be trivial to have dedicated areas for scooters that take up about 25 times less space than a bike since scooters could fold up under seats if some tiny provisions was made for it.

Looks nice. Hopefully they make the seats a little wider and more comfortable. Would be great if they updated the current X’Trap as it’s looking very tired inside!

@itechcircle9410

Жыл бұрын

Yes the X'Trap 100s are at the perfect age for a major refurbishment.

@adrianjackson1586

Жыл бұрын

Don’t hold your breath for wider seats. I sat down beside someone and it was very cozy. Because they’ve widened the aisle for accessibility devices, the seats are narrower.

The capitalisation on the exterior of the trains is a good idea, the whole display won't have to be changed, which ŵìll delay service. Ìs there many changes to the controls? I'd try slightly different controls for hillside trains, just in case.

I hope they sound better than the HCMT's on the move. But, the HCMT's and now these are setting me up to have a negative outlook on where our train fleet is heading. I can look back at Hitachi, Comeng, Xtrap, and even Siemens trips, and remember them in a positive light and can recall some character to each of the trains. My sole trip on a HCMT so far, done solely so that I could then say I had done one, is one I remember in a negative light, and their sterile nature has me preferring trips on other trains if and when possible.

@ianmontgomery7534

Жыл бұрын

I am not a regular train user but I quite enjoy trips on the HCMT's.

Thank you, Philip. Great video as always. The interior layout has taken consideration of our increasing aging population it seems. Do you think so?

@philipmallis

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Yes that's probably one of the factors that has gone into the design. Other considerations like hearing loops that have been rolled out are probably part of the same thinking.

@Arrigo888

Жыл бұрын

@@philipmallis Thank you.

I would still prefer if the headlight of the train confined more to its silhouette. Thy just seem haphazardly placed in the bottom corners of the front. Maybe something similar to the HCMTs or even the E2 class trams.

It reminds me of the new generation rolling stock (NGR)in Queensland

Good video as always Philip. Anything is better than the awful Siemens trains, but yes those sets don't look the most comfortable. I like the exterior though, the blue, yellow and silver is nice and modern.

For some reason, these trains just remind me so much of MTR’s SP1950s on the Tuen Ma Line. 🤔

The New Station named East Pakenham has Opened. Can you please make sure you make a video there at the New Station?

how easily pulled down are the seats at 4:14? so often they are really stiff, which causes its own kind of accessibility issue

what's the knee height/Leg room between seats like? I find the HCMT's too close and this makes it uncomfortable to travel long distance

@philipmallis

Жыл бұрын

I didn't find it that comfortable and I'm not especially tall. If you find the HCMT seats uncomfortable, I think you'll have a similar experience on these unfortunately.

Great video dude. I look at all this electronic stuff and I just think ‘what’s it gonna be like in 10 years in terms of reliability?’ Particularly the passenger counter and the speaker volume thing. The Xtrap 100s are currently the most reliable train on the suburban network by quite a bit due to their fantastically simple, no frills, design. I hope to be proven wrong here but It is a concern I have (along with the HCMT)

@billyp4850

7 ай бұрын

The X'traps are also very reliable because the average age of the fleet is so low. When you compare the first batch to the Siemens sets, the reliability is comparable.

It's a nice looking train. As a Sydneysider (and I am not looking for the 'who is best' argument here), we admire the Melbourne Tram network and wish we still had ours. But I will say, we don't admire your train network much. The trains aren't as nice as what we have and the destination boards and announcements seem a lot older. This train looks very modern though. I like it.

Hopefully the announcement chime uses the windows 95 utopia asterisk sound

Are these units faster than other units for sections with higher speed limits?

Based on the demonstrated line information displays we wont be riding these on the northern group lines until 2080..... I assume the Comengs will continue on :(

be good when im come to visit melbourne one day to get on board this new train when it comes in service next year in 2024 nice and new

I recall hearing somewhere that these newer trains are driverless capable, and I believe there was a recent industrial action partly around this. Has there been any comments on this function?

@philipmallis

9 ай бұрын

Not that I'm aware of, sorry

Finally, fresh new trains for the frankston line. I was quite disappointed when Cranbourne and Dandenong got those new models a few years ago. That said, neither that model or this one seem to have good seating. This looks way too cramped in addition to those hard looking seats. But I also won’t be travelling as much now that I’m no longer a student coming all the way from Frankston, so I guess it’s a moot point for me to make. Now if only they could fix up Caulfield station....hate that one

I personally don't think we need to (or should be overly accommodating to) bicycles on suburban trains. In peak hour they should be banned, and off peak it's almost a matter of irrelevancy. Overall I think these X2s are feature packed but not overly fancy. Decent buy, Melbourne! Great video mate

I kinda feel like Sandringham line is being left out from all the projects such as level crossing removal also there’s no plans for new trains to run on the Sandringham line like HCMT, x,trapilos 2.0 (idk how to spell x,trapilos lol)

@dylanshadowstar9779

10 ай бұрын

I imagine in the next few years the Sandringham line will be entirely seimans trains as the comengs is best phased out

Hey phillip. I tried the HCMT trains. And l think that the seats are uncomfortable for long rides. I perfer the older trains. I find the seating on the old trains much more comfortable with the window lowered. So l can rest my arm long on the window seat

So first we have the HCMT of 2020, and now the X’trapolis 2.0 of 2025

Do these new XTrapolis trains have doors in the same position as the new HCMTs? I assume that, now we're going to have platform-doors, that all future rolling stock will need standardised door positions and carriage-lengths, or is there a magic solution for this?

@sswel1

Жыл бұрын

No car body and door distance are different. Xtrap2 will not be running in the metro tunnel where the platform doors are. MT will only be serviced by HCMTs

@philipmallis

Жыл бұрын

Good question! They looked to be in the same spot. Might be worth emailing the project team to ask: xt2trains@transport.vic.gov.au

The first time I went on a train one can walk the length of without sliding doors between carriages, a gust of wind blew entire length, and a man sitting opposite lost his hat. Also, this design means there's nowhere to retreat to if there's a fire in one carriage - the smoke will fill the entire train.

@dylanshadowstar9779

10 ай бұрын

Luckily these ones seem to have doors between carts that can shut in an emergency

Unsurprising to see the Werribee line being shafted again

Perhaps Alstom could build 5-Car trains in the UK to operate on busier suburban services such as in South London with Southern using 5-Car trains on their suburban routes. And also new 5-Car trains for Scotrail to be used on the Glasgow suburban routes and to replace the Class 318 and Class 320.

6:15 the emergency help point should probably *say* the carriage number

I hope these trains come to the Frankston/Sandringham lines.

@Megahowler82

Жыл бұрын

They are... The information was wrong.. These are earmarked for Craigieburn, Upfield, Frankston.. they won't be on the Cranbourne line as stated

@that_kca

Жыл бұрын

@@Megahowler82 "Craigieburn, Upfield" Why do i expect a reprioritisation of where they go before they even get here

@philipmallis

Жыл бұрын

Sorry but I did make a mistake, I meant to say 'Frankston' and not 'Cranbourne'. no plans announced for the Sandringham Line as yet.

I hope we get these new trains on the Belgrave and Lilydale lines and the Alamein and the Glen Waverley lines

@dylanshadowstar9779

10 ай бұрын

Currently the plan is for these to replace comengs and likely be on upfield, Craigieburn and Frankston lines. That may change if more end up being built.

the intercar doors will probably stay open, these are only closed when there is a emergency like fires

why does it feel like the western suburbs never gets the new trains, one ideas?

It looks like a lot of seating has been removed when compared to existing rolling stock. Is that correct?

@philipmallis

Жыл бұрын

I didn't count the seats, but it does seem like there are slightly fewer seats overall. However, the overall capacity of the carriages is higher than the current X'trapolis trains.