Thanks for doing the data collection... and the analysis. I know these types of videos take a lot of work but the juice is worth the squeeze.

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

I enjoy it! When I was a kid everyone else wanted to be a firefighter or astronaut. I wanted to be a statistician 😂

Thanks for the informative breakdown! I think the petting zoo counts as a unique building for those stats, as others have mentioned.

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

I thought about Petting Zoos as I was going to bed! But I think the correct answer may be in another comment - it's only counting buildings from sponsors. I guess it makes sense as they are truly unique, while every player can get a Petting Zoo or Reptile House.

@draheim90

10 ай бұрын

@@NoWondersTV Oh, interesting. I just looked at a recently completed game of mine and that appears correct - only sponsor buildings count as unique.

Good stuff! I think the main reason releasing animals is so prevalent is that top players are 1) always looking for projects to do, even if they are inefficient ones. 2) playing mostly 2p games, where there is less projects to do. One thing you didn't seem to notice is how undervalued bears are by the average player, even more so than birds it seems. I'm too lazy to do the math on it, but it seems like a huge difference, taking in account how many bears there are in the game. Would be interesting if there was statistics on average strength on the action a player takes. Also darcelmaw was genuinely shocked when I told him he's a bigger petting zoo hater than me, "I don't have anything against them, I guess it just doesn't happen"

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

Good point. Are there actually any bad bears? Like birds, I don't think so either. They are just tricky to find and play sometimes. In terms of % it's actually the animal icon with the biggest difference between all and top 3, so you are right to point that out. I suspect Darcel is the biggest Petting Zoo hater out of all the top 100 players. Might be time to analyse one of his games to see how the madman does it!

@JDSecretPolice

10 ай бұрын

@@NoWondersTV i think the American bear with fully throated is subpar, but other than that they are all great (and works towards species) I taught the kid well😇

@radublana2670

3 ай бұрын

On top of all the mentioned benefits of releasing animals, having a handy release also gives you the opportunity to sabotage the other player(s) by taking a low spot on the base projects. Say there's a 2 and a 5 slot. If you're taking the 2 then they'd be forced to go for the 5. If the base project is a species one (e.g. reptiles, predators) and you have an expert in reptiles/predators then you'd be inclined to go for the 5. However, taking the 2 would force your opponent(s) to give you 15 money, or not go for the project at all.

Just discovered your channel. Amazing info and data. Many thanks!!

Thanks for the data!! Excellent!

Speaking as a 100 BGA AN tackling dummy, I learned the hard way that ignoring one type of upgrade as a COA is beyond foolish. My biggest weakness is efficiency; I'm always trapping myself in little sequences that I think I'm maximizing my resources when in truth I'm burning turns. I'm hoping that watching strategy vids like this will help me snap out of that habit Appreciate ya!

I played Ark Nova twice so far and this video (which popped up, I did not look for it) is really, really good and spares me about 10 games at least innorder to get a feeling for which animal cards are more profitable. Thanks

@NoWondersTV

4 ай бұрын

Glad to hear! Hope you end up loving Ark as much as I do!

Thank you! 👍🏼

I definitely need to think about releasing more! I was turned off one game where i was just releasing every animal thanks to the migration sponsor and my economy never really developed since my appeal was so low. But I have no doubt that an early release can be worth it, while a release later can save a lot on building

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

I think the key to early releases is taking the 5 income. Depending on what you release, of course, if it's a small animal a worker may also be viable. It's something I have to look out for in future replay analyses.

Very helpful thx

Nooice! Thanks for doing this analysis!! You missed out in the end on the most glaring difference in buildings built - Top players build 2x as many pavilions as average player. Pavilion is super good ROI. Costs you $2 to get 1 appeal + $1/turn (assuming its next to a kiosk) and a potential map bonus.

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

Huh, wow. Not sure how I missed that one. 3.86 vs 2.07 is a huge difference! I guess it has to do with the fact that top players are upgrading build earlier. I agree though, Pavilions are great value. I love them so much only one other player in the top 20 builds more of them than me 😁

some of the sponsor cards (like "Victory Column") give a unique building

Ive seen statistics for Race for the Galaxy that compare win percentage to cards in the final tableau / cards kept in opening hand. Would be nice to see if there's a skew towards what people are playing and if holding on to a high value card from turn 1 is worth it.

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

There's similar in Agricola too, which is extremely useful to look at. You have to jump through all sorts of hoops to get that data. I know for Agricola Lumin had to get permission from the publisher and writeup / sign a NDA. Hopefully one day it's available!

Very interesting! For number of breaks triggered, I think it reflects player count and game length, not skill. I like how Tomoaki plays, he ends the game fast. Most top players start Uni, but he averages 2.66 Partner zoos and 1.09 Uni. I do this ~50% of my games, but he takes it to the next level by not upgrading Cards. If he upgrades Animals late, then he probably wouldn't pass 9 rep anyway. Could be an interesting replay analysis topic.

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

I'm glad I updated the list again before I made the video, because Tomoaki wasn't in my first list! The numbers were so different to everyone else that I had to investigate. The Partner Zoos and always upgrading Association is very interesting. The benefit is getting access to some better animals and making them cheaper. The downside is no Uni reputation which he doesn't care about. I would love to analyse one of his games but I fear a 4p game is going to take too long with 3x as many opponent moves. It may have to be one that I pre-record and edit to save time.

Also notable: top players getting more money but less income. so they very much like sponsor cards with immediate effect or prefer 12 money bonus as reward

@NoWondersTV

4 ай бұрын

That is pretty interesting. I wonder how much of that is due to the 12 money, Explorer and Science Museum.

re: the unique building count, it will be the Petting Zoo that is increasing the average.

Unique buildings are aviary, reptile house, and petting zoo

Really interesting! I just broke 300 today so I am coming for you... 😉

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

Nice job!!

Thanks for the great video as always. I thought number of turns = build + animal + association + card + sponsor action + x-tokens gained instead of action, but the number doesn't add up. Do you know why? I think some of these statistics are only useful for 2-player games. For 3 or 4-player games, I think number of breaks and gaining x-tokens instead of actions is different from 2 player games. Controlling tempo in higher player count games is much harder. From watching JD's games, I know that he LOVES gaining x-tokens instead of actions especially in the 1st round to play more sponsors. However, when I tried to imitate that playstyle in 3-player games, often times I ended up being too slow and unable to play the sponsors. I really appreciate that you included Tomoaki here. He's the only player in your list that doesn't play 2 player game. Unfortunately there's no 3-player-game specialist in BGA that reaches top 20. Would love to see the statistical difference between different player counts.

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

It would have to be animals that give extra actions, x2, and Determination. These allow you to have 2 actions but would still only count as 1 turn. I didn't think too much about that, but it's another stat we can analyse. The best players are getting 1.37 extra actions per game while the average player only 1.02. It would be nice if the stats could be broken down by player count. I'll keep an eye out for someone that plays mostly at 3p!

@robertbrickland2610

10 ай бұрын

​@@NoWondersTVYou're right. I totally forgot about determination etc.

@JDSecretPolice

10 ай бұрын

I'd consider myself more of a 3p specialist than a 2p, but that is obviously not reflected in the stats. I think it does translate, even though 3p and 2p is fairly different. The thing is you have to know when it's viable to do so and what you're sacrificing to do it. 3p games are also a little bit more unpredictable, esp if the players are different skill levels, which can really mess with your plans.

@robertbrickland2610

10 ай бұрын

​@@JDSecretPoliceI agree that in general 2p and 3p games are similar unlike 4p games where chaos happens everywhere. However, I think the biggest difference is controlling the tempo. I find it hard to slow down the tempo unless we're playing in Hollywood hills. I've seen way too many random breaks that I don't normally expect. That's why I don't think gaining x-tokens is as good as 2p games. Btw I would love to see you play 3p games sometimes in the future. Maybe with darcel and Sam?

@JDSecretPolice

10 ай бұрын

@@robertbrickland2610 very true I'd be down for it. Me, darc and orski played a 3p game quite a while back over on his youtube if you want to check that out.( Please note, i forgot to take 2 appeal from cable car at one point which was game altering)

This video is fantastic. Thank you for the analysis and breakdown of each of the statistics! One thing I was wondering about / hoping to improve on is which of the association upgrade options to choose (e.g., snapping, 2-enclosures, 5 money, etc...). I'm guessing that this might be fairly tactical choice and hard to glean much from statistics though, plus I don't think BGA records this in the overall statistics section. I've watched many of your videos though and I appreciate all the content.

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

That would be another cool stat to look at, sadly it's not recorded. It is fairly game-dependent. I think most of the time you'll see top players either take 5 income or a worker first. Personally if I have under 6 reputation I'll take a worker, otherwise I'll take the income. After that it's completely tactical. 12 money if you are broke, 2 enclosures if you have small animals, snapping if there is a good card / you just need cards etc.

@JDSecretPolice

10 ай бұрын

That's actually the topic of my next video coming either today or tmrw😌

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

@@JDSecretPolice Niiiiice can't wait!

@jeremyfreeman8200

10 ай бұрын

@@JDSecretPolice I'll definitely check that out! Thanks!

Does the data allow for breaking down which action card is upgraded first in most cases? In our group (we play 3-4p), Association is a common first upgrade. Granted, we're not very experienced with less than 10 games in total, which might be why.

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

Sadly there's no data to show that. In 2p games it's typically Build and Animals 1-2. I think in 3-4p games you can be more flexible. I'm going to analyse one of Tomoaki's 4p games tomorrow to see how he goes about it!

@user-bo7pk3ln6e

10 ай бұрын

I tend to upgrade Build, Association, and Animals in that order.

I wonder if the size 2 enclosure conservation bonus is gained more by top players too.

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

Ah, that’s a good point I wish we could track! My gut feeling says they would take it less than the average player, but the stats don’t really back up my feeling.

That is wierd, ppl don't upgrade sponsorship card, but play sponsor card more often. Is it that sponsor card is weak being upgraded (for me seems like so), or just at the beginning of the game provides you with extra money to make your engine work.

I'd love to know the upgrade order.

@miks8

10 ай бұрын

Exactly! # of times Build upgraded as first, second, etc.

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

I would too! Come on BGA add this in

Would be nice if they let you have more functionality with the data, i.e. filter games by number of players.

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

That would be amazing! Sadly something I think won't ever happen. I'm still waiting for the updated achievement system from before I started using BGA 😂

maybe the unique buildings also include the petting zoo. You can only have 1 of them.

@s.d.d.6063

10 ай бұрын

No. Unique buildings, per the glossary, are only and exclusively sponsor buildings.

@ricardorix73

10 ай бұрын

@@s.d.d.6063And you have access to the BGA code to know that's exactly how it's implemented?

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

@@s.d.d.6063 That makes a lot of sense and would explain the stats more. Thanks!

@ricardorix73

10 ай бұрын

@@NoWondersTV Unfortunately none of us has access to the BGA code, they are probably right though and it would make just as much sense. 1.5 buildings played from sponsor cards - sounds right too.

less vs fewer... join us in the grammatical war for glory

@NoWondersTV

7 ай бұрын

Aussies are very lazy, and fewer has two syllables 🙃 (less has less syllables??)

@freegameskidsteens

2 күн бұрын

Thank you, it was driving me nuts lol

That 4p only player sounds like they've found a straight up exploit in multiplayer- is early cp possibly *that* good?

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

I think their play style stacks up very well in 4p games. You have more incentive to reach 5 and 8 CP first as the better rewards are limited and you aren't guaranteed to get one (unlike 2p).

@DaFees

10 ай бұрын

@@NoWondersTV I wonder then if this gives a reasonable explanation to Tomoaki's average of 1.09 for university association tasks. I wonder if they normally do it just to get the increased hand size only but then in about 9% of games where one of the 5 or 8 CP rewards is a free university tile, they'll do the action a second time to get the third university tile for an additional 1 or 2 CP.

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

@@DaFees I'm not 100% sure. He still upgrades 4 action cards in more than half his games, implying he gets 2 universities somehow. I'll have to analyse one of his games tomorrow to see how/when he takes his universities.

@DaFees

10 ай бұрын

@@NoWondersTV if they’re upgrading 4 action cards over half the time then I’d expect the university association action to be closer to 2 or at least 1.5. I could see them getting a 2nd university tile from getting 5 / 8 CP sometimes but not enough that their average for the university association action to only be 1.09. Might have to check out one of their games myself.

@NoWondersTV

10 ай бұрын

@@DaFees There are a couple of other ways, like Research Institute having a Uni on the floor, one of the other maps has a Uni as a Project reward. But yes the numbers don't really add up. I'm going to analyse one of his games tonight to see what his usual ordering is.

i would imagine Australia and Europe are less because there are fewer Australia and Europe cards in the deck, since they don't have any monkeys. Any game with Primates as a goal makes Europe and Australia much less powerful. I would consider Europe either 2nd or 3rd best, with a ton of really powerful animals. For example, the European Bear with an association worker and a 2x on association, the Reptile with Hypnosis, the eagle are all cards you really want to have. IMO Asia >> America = Europe > Africa > Australia. Australia just has too many overcosted animals that require a lot to play, such as the Dingo, the Emu, Dugong, Koala, Kangaroo.

@NoWondersTV

8 ай бұрын

I agree. It's definitely a case of Europe and Australia seeing less play because there are just less of those cards. If you amend your list to Africa >>> Australia then it's perfect!

@TheJuicyTangerine

8 ай бұрын

@@NoWondersTV I feel like Africa is hard carried by just 4 cards. The Rhino, the Elephant, Secretary Bird (for turn 3 release shenanigans, or for comboing with things like Guided school Tours) and Shoebill for the same reasons. Africa suffers from two critical thing in that the cards often have too many requirements to play (Lion, Mandrill, Saltwater croc, Zebra), and if you draw any of these early game it's a dead card. The second thing is that African cards often are overcosted, with Sunbathing to account for it or trying to get value out if Hunter. You'd much rather have Perception or even Pouch. Australia has some things going for it though. It's fantastic for closing out games as if you have enough card draw late game. So I don't think Africa >> Australia, they're about equal in my eyes.

@NoWondersTV

8 ай бұрын

@@TheJuicyTangerine I like a few of the other African animals such as the pilfering monkey, Marabou, Flamingo and Hippo. The high requirements of the others does make them tricky to play, but if you meet those criteria then they will be good value. It mostly doesn't matter anyway. It's rare you would have to pick between either partner zoo with no direction from projects or animals in your hand

@TheJuicyTangerine

8 ай бұрын

@@NoWondersTV I don't rate the evil monkey and hippo as high because of their partner zoo requirement. Unless you flip association, you only have access to two partnerships. If Africa isn't on the conservation projects, you're way more likely to pick one that matches conservation projects, or just pick Asia by default. So the chances that you're on Research Institute and can cheat them out, or if getting the African partnership is truly the best play, these two cards are dead in your hand for the early game. You're rarely going out of your way to get an African Partnership unless Africa or Primates is on the test. Any card that is reliant on situation or other cards in play does not earn a spot in my list of reputable animals. And here's the thing: Asia and America both have their equivalent evil monkey (Macaque being especially powerful). The other two animals you mentioned are good animals, but not standout power-plays like Rhinos, big bears, elephants, or Eagles. These are animals you actually will go out of your way to play. I also am slightly biased against evil monkeys since my IRL play group mostly plays friendly instead of competitive (I actually play with BDW irl!).

@NoWondersTV

8 ай бұрын

@@TheJuicyTangerine Haha, I knew as soon as you said "evil monkey" that you must know BDW. Say hi to Ray next time you play IRL 😉

Two player count is pointless….the slightly better player wins

@NoWondersTV

9 ай бұрын

Playing Ark Nova in general is pointless! Personally I enjoy a game more if there is less luck in it, but not everyone feels the same way and that’s totally fine

@StewsReplay

9 ай бұрын

@@NoWondersTV Luck as in beginning action setup? Card draft? That's the nature of card games. sometimes that ONE card just doesn't show up. It all boils down to a math problem. If you can get 7 tickets vs 2 Conservative points...maybe the tickets... The more I think about the game the more I think it's all the last round...sadly, this is the case in most Math oriented "solo" eurogames. All your big points come at the end...not a big fan having to play for 2 hours to wait for that ONE turn.... It's like taking 2 hours to "finish" in sex....the last 5 sec is what you are waiting for.