the edison community needs to find the judges responsible for the quickdraw ruling and bring them to justice

@imalwaysbluffing

Ай бұрын

The proper justice is make them play 100 QuickDraw matches vs bw

I'm still a fan of playing "does it target" with Ryko at my local weekly Edison. That Quickdraw one still takes the cake.

@michaelkerr7696

Жыл бұрын

Does Ryko target in Edison?

@alexYu-gi-oh

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelkerr7696 yes

@machinayrequiem8596

3 ай бұрын

I always thought it was pretty clear that if you are physically choosing a card by selecting it or pointing st it then it is targeting. With Ryko, you choose the card which would mean it targets. Bottomless destroys whatever monster is summoned and you dobnot physically choose the monster so it doesnt target.

How I understand some of these rulings: 2:21 Trap monsters just state that they are stil traps. So there is this weird ruling that if you book of moon these cards, they are set back again in the spell/trap zone. Therefore they need a "spaceholder" to make sure there is space for them in case they get booked. 3:08 basically the game recognizes that the monster is send first to the gy, before caius was summoned, even if it was just for a very short moment, and therefore the gy effect has to trigger first because it happened earlier. 7:53 Basically the card doesnt state that you get to look, so you arent allowed to check, because with that logic, everytime your opponent sets a monster or a spell/trap face down, how do you not know that your opponent is cheating, maybe he is playing infernity and just set a monster in the spell/trap zone. Because you cannot call a judge everytime someone sets something, you arent allowed to do the same with mind crush

As a Fortune Lady enthusiast, the Deck Dev ruling hurts my soul.

Additional things to note at each of the rulings: 1: The general theory I've accepted as to why Rivalry/Gozen work differently for Tribute and Special Summons is due to the fact you can place the card face-down in a Tribute Summon but not a Special Summon, and when it's time for the action to occur (after tributes are made). Remember that the nuance for the action of "Tribute Summon" is weird; you can activate Precious Cards from Beyond when Tribute Setting a monster, you cannot tribute Ojama or Sheep tokens for Tribute Summons or Sets, etc. 2: From the way you're explaining it, I'm not sure you understand. The Trap Monster occupies the Monster Zone yet the Spell & Trap Zone it used to occupy cannot be used a la Ground Collapse or Ojama King for Monster Zones. The important distinction is that you can target Zoma, for example, with MST or Remove Trap but cannot be sent to activate Counter Gem because it is only in the Monster Zone. (I really struggled to think of an edison example of where this could matter so this is largely inconsequential; just wanted to make sure you, and others, were aware.) 3: There's not much to add that others already haven't so I'll spare this one. 4: In defense of My Body as a Shield, the text was worded as "card or effect" which is basically synonymous with today's "card effect" or a lengthy "Spell/Trap Card or effect, or monster effect" (though thankfully I don't think that is used). This distinction is similar to why you can activate oppression against an already active Valhalla or Black Garden, but not a Solemn (Judgment/Warning). 5: Yeah DDV is dumb. DDV is unique, to the point that a similar effect in Neo-Spacian Aqua Dolphin doesn't interact the same way. One of those rules that was made back pre-2006 that never got questioned enough to update. 6: "cheating is allowed" is pretty misleading. Yeah, someone COULD discard only 1 of the named card when they have 2 and that would pretty unanimously be agreed as cheating. In practice, there really wouldn't be a time to exploit that. obv there's the fact that online you can check replays and irl you can call a judge at any time (within reason), but I'm not even talking about checking the act. Good players would activate Mind Crush in one of two scenarios: a card was just added to the hand or is simply known to exist there (dustshoot, etc), or you are reading or preparing for the opponent to have a card that, if played, would threaten you by either preventing lethal (gorz) or generates a massive advantage (card-wise or position-wise). 7: I've never once before today heard that Armory Arm checked the ATK of the monster on the field. There's no real historic ruling on yugipedia for the TCG referencing how Armory Arm references the ATK of the destroyed monster, and edisonformat has a reference to a feature match post; I don't even want to get into why that doesn't prove much and shouldn't be used as a ruling source. Even the pojo post referenced for the "change" was asking in the email "yeah no ruling really exists, so please give one". I'd say Colossal Arm works in edison but not a few formats later because of the change in Colossal, making it optional and thus makes SEGOC resolve it first then Arm loses its reference. For what it's worth, I (who may or may not be Asta) would rule it as ATK in the grave unless I research further and find something else. 8: Quickdraw Ignition Effect is so dumb. The reasoning for Quickdraw Ignition Effect is basically some judge (I think it was even Kevin Tewart) saying "this is worded the same way as drill warrior, so it works that way until the card gets reworded and fixed". I agree that it's not something that makes sense.

Love this kind of extra content, Karpath! Would love to see more of these as well as possibly in Tengu plant format

It's crazy to me that TCG didn't have modern chain blocking till mid 2017. the ocg had it for a while, and basically everyone likes it.

It's wild to consider that number 2, regarding trap monsters, was a thing way up until the 2020 Rule Revisions. We all just either accepted cuz no one used Trap Monsters, or had no clue because we didn't use Trap Monsters hahaha

@i8u2manytimes

Жыл бұрын

I thought it was weirder that they changed it so you can use the zone, what happens if someone uses a card to reset the trap but all 5 slots are used?

@Coolcone101

Жыл бұрын

@@i8u2manytimes So, by my current understanding, if the Trap-Monster is still 'treated as a Trap card' it will just go to the grave If it 'is not treated as a Trap card', then it will just be flipped face-down like any other monster would be. Don't take my word as gospel though; it'll be on the wiki/rulebook somewhere :D

Modern day mindcrush you are not allowed to check at all, regardless of if your opponent discards or not

So I can actually explain the Sangan Caius thing. SEGOC used to work (in TCG only) that triggered effects that would be activated at the same time activate in the order that they met their conditions. A tribute summon works by Tributing the monster on the field and then performing the summon, so Sangan is sent to the GY and then Caius is summoned. Since both are mandatory, they also decide their order at the same point in SEGOC rules and must activate in that order.

@fotoshooti2910

Жыл бұрын

This is also a ruling in Tenguformat where Tengu always triggers as chain link even if you cant summon a Tengu out of the deck. I dont think this ruling is more stupid then the RIvalry, Gozen Match one

@SRR9000

Жыл бұрын

came here to say the same thing

Should be more of these types of videos. Good stuff

So, about My Body as a Shield, the thing is that you cannot activate spell or trap cards in the damage step unless it is a counter trap or a card that modifies ATK/DEF status. Since My Body is/does neither, it cannot be activated in the damage step.

@adamthompson9269

7 ай бұрын

But like he said stardust can be activated in damage step…so that’s not true

@k8s721

7 ай бұрын

@@adamthompson9269 monsters with quick effects that negate other effects can be activated during the damage step, that has always been the case (take Dolkka for example)

@peterfehrmann9029

4 ай бұрын

@@k8s721 Not quite. The thing is: yes, counter traps can be activated during the damage step, but not because they are counter traps. Some effects state that effects will be negated. Cards that negate effects can not be activated during the damage step. Starlight road is a good example. If you destroy an absolute zero by battle, you can not negate that effect with starlight road. You can however negate the activation during the damage step. Stardust Dragon and every single negating counter trap negates the activation. Thats why you can activate them during the damage step.

TBH, I feel like everything on the list makes sense to me except for the top three. We should just make QD inherent like we fixed the mind crush ruling. It would make way more sense. Great vid btw! Love to see more variety in videos (not that your gameplay vids aren't great also)

Ok I need more of these kind of videos I died laughing at the deck devi ruling

From what I saw for Quickdraw, in ocg it worked like it does in edison format, so as an ignition effect, cause the text wa different, but in tcg the text was always written as an inherent summon

The reason why Stardust works in damage step is that it's a monster effect that negates activation. Mbass is not a monster effect. Why they desired to make the rules specific to monster effects is a good question though

mind crush would be easily fixed (and buffed) if they errata'd it to REVEAL THE OPPONENT'S HAND FIRST regardless if they have the declared card or not... something like: Declare 1 card name; check your opponent's hand, then discard all cards with the declared name (if any). this wording makes it so you STILL check hand even if you declare a banned card or whatever

Love this different kind of vid

The reason for My Body’s ruling comes from the Gold Series 3 errata which says “When your opponent activates a card or effect that would destroy a monster(s) on the field”. It was released in the tcg in June 2010, but was already released in the ocg before Edison format so thats how the ruling came to be.

My body working in damage step would be so nice because it would give the format a real out to absolute zero other then just not summoning monsters

I didn't know some of these, and it does beg the question; would it terribly harm the integrity of the format if these rulings were re-evaluated? Some like the Trap monster ruling don't really need to be addressed, since that's not exclusive to Edison (that ruling was only recently overturned for modern format), but the Quickdraw ruling and the DDV one are super-unintuitive, and don't really add much. On the other hand, if the Rivalry/Gozen ruling were to go the other way, and resemble the modern format ruling, then that could have major consequences for the balance of the metagame.

My Body in Turbo Pack 2 which was the last printing before Edison says: when your oppnent activates a card with an effect. Looks to me like it says exactly what it does.

Hero Stun and Blackwings would be even better if they could just side Rivalry/Gozen so I'm really glad we don't have to deal with that :D

My favorite ruling is being able to send Rainbow Dragon with Prisma. I wish it worked that way in OCG.

The mind crush ruling to where you can’t look applies to modern

@MqToxicninja

Жыл бұрын

and its stupid

@Karpath_

Жыл бұрын

yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Mind_Crush No it doesn’t

@DarkAngelYGO

Жыл бұрын

@@Karpath_ dang my bad! I’ve been deceived! Lol

@Brayan-nh4gx

Жыл бұрын

@@DarkAngelYGO no u right it was updated in 2019 in the policy documents. You may not ask a judge to search or verify your opponent’s hand, Deck contents, or face-down cards unless there is supportable evidence that your opponent may be cheating or that there may be a valid Deck-related issue. Duelist A activates Mind Crush and declares Effect Veiler. Duelist B says she does not have Effect Veiler in her hand. Duelist A does not get to see Duelist B’s hand to verify. Duelist A cannot call a judge to verify Duelist B’s hand unless there is supportable evidence that your opponent may be cheating or that there may be a valid Deck-related issue.

@DarkAngelYGO

Жыл бұрын

@@Brayan-nh4gx that’s what I thought!! The yugipedia and yugiohwikia isn’t updated

Sangan + Caius ruling will come up a lot against Orange now that it’s topping and KrysSworn is rising in popularity

The graveyard chain block restriction is an interesting one. Could it have something to with resembling death? For instance, a living thing is try to do one last thing before it passes to the afterlife, therefore the game encourages that this would be mandatory over something thats alive on field? Am I potentially overthinking this but in a way it makes sense

I recently had that ruling with rivalry come in goat format. I tributed for mobius and they said I couldn’t. I thought that sounded right but also thought rulings for goat format are stupid so I checked and I indeed could

Hi Karpath, the first ruling is wrong: there is an mail from Konami (June 2010) which they said "Synchro Monsters are chosen before the Synchro Material Monsters are sent to the Graveyard, so you cannot choose a Synchro Monster of a Type that isn’t the Type of monster you currently control while Rivalry of Warlords is active. You may Tribute one type for another, but you must Set the monster of the new Type. " Between March and June no rulings have been changed, because at that time rulings changed from UDE to Konami in April 2009.

@Karpath_

Жыл бұрын

This does not contradict what I said. Rivalry only stops synchros of a different type, but not tributing. (Which is btw inconsistent and makes no sense, hence why I chose this ruling.)

@EdisonFormatItalia

Жыл бұрын

@@Karpath_ people said rivalry doesn't stop tribute..it stops, but you must tribute in set position.

@Karpath_

Жыл бұрын

@@EdisonFormatItalia That is false. I’m not sure if its a situation similar to Quickdraw where it was specifically ruled that way at SJC Edison, but for certain rivalry works the way I described in Edison format, and that is how it has been ruled at events in 2022.

Can’t we, as a community, just change the quickdraw ruling?

1 of the notable mentions is black wing bora. you can SS this card if you control another blackwing other than bora. player has say sirocco bora on field. They can SS another bora in hand. But the way the sentence is structured it insinuates it checks both monsters they control which 1 is bora so they canny SS the other they can SS.

@OleHutch

2 күн бұрын

They still control another blackwing that's not Bora tho

I had no idea we were supposed to be using that Quickdraw ruling the whole time I've played Edison. WTF

i know after edison for a year our country was all playing shi-en and shogun=cant activate spell/traps

Every Single Machina fortress Rulling

chain blocking shoulda used the gb gyrus with murmillo and equest vs stardust that works but yea the grave yard one doesnt and number one is correct lol coming back and hearing that i was like how it wasnt even ruled like that at that edison event X_X

I was playing kitchen table Edison the other night and my brother kept showing Quickdraw like it started a chain and I corrected him. Of course it doesn't start a chain. Of course it doesn't, that would be fucking stupid. I'm still not using that rule after watching this. That one judge isn't going to stop me.

Why arent there new metabreakers episodes?

Why do we keep wrongs rulings then?

more

I think Rivalry and Gozen make MORE sense in Edison format. I'd prefer that they always work like this Edit: ok the fact that you can't syncho is bizarre

why can't we just play Edison Format by taking the banlist from back then and the cardpool, but still apply modern rulings...i guess it would make bottomless much better but still...it would prevent all this confusion and everyone could just play, u know

Do people actually follow that QuickDraw ruling?

@zauls.

Жыл бұрын

yep it is ruled like that in all FL Edison events

@gorz859

Жыл бұрын

We have to lol

Why doesn't the Edison community just "fix" these ruling issues if in hindsight they're all wrong? I understand mechanically how things like priority have to stay, but everyone knows these cards are ruled incorrectly and just accepts it like this format was dead and buried until people brought it back, but they brought it back with this? it's like they gave it another shot at life and still fumbled haha

quickdraw not all that relevant no? things come to my mind is mind crush, chain makro.. but im sure there is more?

@Karpath_

Жыл бұрын

Royal Oppression

@florianbehrend4925

Жыл бұрын

@@Karpath_ well then you opression the synchro? not so relevant no? do you btw. discard when opression with this ruling?

@OmniNero

Жыл бұрын

@@florianbehrend4925 I think it screws with Light and Darkness Dragon as well, since that card must negate, and QD's discard is a part of the effect.

The rivalry and gozen rulings make sense. If you tribute summon you never actually have a board state which broken the rule.

Ok, now i understand why people activate quickdraw. Every time i watch an edison match with quickdraw, I'm watching and I'm like malding "it doesn't activate, why are you declaring activation on db?" It makes sense now, still the stupidest thing I've seen.

@shadowdraqon2479

Жыл бұрын

Most of the time it doesnt matter, there are no negates in edison anyways

@shadowdraqon2479

Жыл бұрын

Herald of perfection/evolzar dolkka/naturia landoise dont exist

@shadowdraqon2479

Жыл бұрын

Maxx c doesnt exist, so it doesnt matter u can chain maxx c to quickdraw’s activation.

@shadowdraqon2479

Жыл бұрын

Its a slight buff to be immune to thunder king and solemn judgment/black horn of heaven, since these 3 only negate inherent summons, quick draw activating bypasses that, but u can just thunderking/solemn judgment the synchro summon that quick draw is gonna synchro into anyways

@shadowdraqon2479

Жыл бұрын

Its a nerf vs doomcaliber knight, he will negate and destroy quickdraw, if quickdraw was inherent summon then doomcaliber cant negate then they synchro and run over doomcaliber knight

I'm pretty sure ? Counts as 0 in modern Yu-Gi-Oh still.

@Karpath_

Жыл бұрын

? Has never counted as 0

@FIIRdesu

Жыл бұрын

? only counts as 0 while face up on the field and no effect that changes the value applies. You can not Sangan search for ? atk from deck. You can not Limit Reverse revive ? atk from grave. You can not Skull Conductor special ? atk from hand. Not even in Edison. Deck Dev being the only exception literally makes 0 sense.

@Xfighter22

Жыл бұрын

Good points but I just figured it is technically zero because let's say you had a card that can gain atk equal to another monsters original attack, if you chose apollousa with 3200atk you would gain "0" atk so I always thought ? = 0 (or if a card said destroy the monster with the lowest original attack, wouldn't appo be destroyed too?) Even though it has am effect changing it's attack, it's original attack is still 0 no? Idk it's a bit confusing in general but I agree if sangan cant search ? Then it shouldn't have 1 exception..

@FIIRdesu

Жыл бұрын

@@Xfighter22 It depends on where the card in question is located. ? is considered undefined and not equal to 0 while the card is not on the field. This is the reason why atk searchers like Sangan don't work on Trag. On the other hand, on the field ? is considered equal to 0. I'm guessing this was the case with your Apollousa example. The reason why Deck Dev is an exception in old Yugioh is just because it was ruled wrong. But that is how it was ruled, and we play with old rules, so we have to play it that way in Edison.

They stopped using the UDE rulings for rivalry and gozen match in 2009 and edison was in 2010... You couldn't tribute summon different types/attributes during edison format..

@Karpath_

2 ай бұрын

www.edisonformat.com/home/rules-update-this-only-affects-tribute-summons

@snowboardinglegend

2 ай бұрын

@Karpath_ After many months of investigation we've reached a roadblock... there's no evidence that Konami's rulings change [1] regarding "Rivalry of Warlords" and "Gozen Match" took effect at or before SJC Edison. Thus the responsible and prudent course of action is to apply the Upper Deck Entertainment rulings [2] to the cards As someone who played competitively during this format, i can confirm we stopped using UDE rulings BEFORE edison format, not sure why there is no evidence online of that