Funny thing is I was a little kid when I FIRST saw the torture game on Fox news, I didn't even know of it's existence until they put blasted it on TV 💀

@IPODsify

Жыл бұрын

This is my first time hearing of it and I had newgrounds bookmarked on my browser for 15 years

@wisemankugelmemicus1701

Жыл бұрын

shit was awesome although it was sometimes a bit too realistic for easy fun

@Mornings

Жыл бұрын

Now apply that to all the drama and "game dev do bad thing" channels you love watching and you see you're just like them.

@enoch13th85

Жыл бұрын

@@Mornings Very true. We're all guilty of it, it seems to be in our nature to be drawn to conflict.

@abbledapple9004

Жыл бұрын

I have a similar story! I was a flash games kid back in the 2010s, but never EVER saw the violent ones until I saw a bunch of articles about specific PETA games. I was absolutely horrified and I think I had nightmares that day due to the pictures attached, I was just a kid. And since then have become completely desensitized to violence and gore due to exposure to it when I was so small lmao, good job to whatever magazine traumatized me all those years ago

blaming "violent video games" for nationwide tragedies and mass deaths is honestly insulting EDIT: coming back to this comment 2 months later, thank you all the nice analogies (blaming hotwheels for car accidents was my favourite) in all seriousness though i'm glad everyone is sharing their opinions on the matter (also thanks for 2.5k as of now =) )

@shcdemolisher

Жыл бұрын

Yeah as a society we should immediatly call out those who use that excuse of the sheer bullshit that close minded perspective is. Just…. Come on. Really? There are far better reasons for why these things happen, so let’s get to addressing them properly.

@beat6513

Жыл бұрын

It's almost like saying hot wheels are the cause for car crashes, it's incredibly stupid and it doesn't make sense

@Aleycat234

Жыл бұрын

That sum. BULLSHIT!

@shcdemolisher

Жыл бұрын

@@beat6513 EXACTLY!!

@BearUmbrella

Жыл бұрын

It’s like blaming art and art school that hitler started to commit genocide.

I think the slaying would have been taken more seriously if pigpen *hadnt* made V tech massacre and there wasnt this feeling that it all might just be for shock value

@hiddenthunder1395

Жыл бұрын

I have a slight suspicion that not having an angry fight on Twitter with one of the victim's mother also could help.

@datachu

Жыл бұрын

@@hiddenthunder1395 I think her ranting about it in public on Twitter can only do harm rather than good. It's just going to draw attention to it, including to the other victims. Also, while bad, I don't see how the Sandy Hook game worse than the V-Tech Massacre game. That one seems more bloody, depsite it's pixel art style, and the way it makes a "cute" game out of a real event disgusts me, the last game though... It feels much more serious in it's tone and style as you'd expect for a serious event, it has merit on an artistic level, and it has an actual message even if not a super sophisticated one. Aka it was the EXACT 3 things that the other dev of a school shooting game told him to do when criticizing his first game... And yet it gets him in MORE trouble, not less? Feels like a double standard to me. If that's the case then how about we ban that dev's game too. Let's go do it right now, cuase I mean, clearly taking the subject seriously INSTEAD of making an insulting mockery of it is "too far"!!

@hiddenthunder1395

Жыл бұрын

@@datachu "her ranting about it in public on Twitter can only do harm rather than good." - Okay, I'm not going to sugarcoat this, no offense. Look, I guess it's kinda hard to understand, but... Her daughter was fucking killed by bastard who apparently thought he has the rights to do it because he was "wronged by the world". I'll dare to say it as person who has relatives and close ones that were killed: She's not wrong. She's angry, offended, etc., but she's still right. I'm sorry, artsy people, but I'll take innocent lives over "art", passed away lives included. "I don't see how the Sandy Hooks game worse than the V-Tech Massacre game" Never said it is. In fact, I don't think anyone else said that. I'll just say, that game's message is... messy. While it tries to tell us about gun control, katana mode, which allows for player to go Highlander on children, implies that gun control in fact, useless and what killer would find weapons anyway. "And yet it gets him in MORE trouble". It didn't, really. If you think that banned game on NG is "trouble", I'm afraid, you're not getting the situation and potential consequences that Ryan could face. "it was the EXACT 3 things that the other dev of a school shooting game told him to do" - I firmly believe that a number of reasons led to that situation, including his edgy "troll games" past, that was catching up to Lamborn, also I can say a few things on Columbine RPG: Ledonne himself faced criticism and bad words for this, so I'm sure his position was "your game is bad, but would face harsh reaction regardless"; also, I find his wirds kinda... hypocritical, I guess. While the beginning of the game is very detailed about Columbine Massacre (Danny even used shooters favorite music), the game later turns into fanfiction about their adventure in hell where they befriend Satan. "If that's the case then how about we ban that dev's game to" Too late, I'm sorry. Yes, I'm sorry, no joke. The game gets more praise than it deserves, honestly. Game immediately becomes tasteless shlock after Harris and Klebold get killed. I can only hope that people who praised the game didn't play that far. I know it won't makes things better, but "Super Columbine Massacre RPG" is Ledonne's only video game he ever created. He's film director first. I want to leave it on kinda... hopeful note, so I'll say that Ryan's second game would have more chances if he didn't tried to tie it with real life event so closely. Making it more "inspired", that "based on". Game series like Postal and Hotline Miami face more praise and less harsh reactions yet tackle same issues and more.

@alenmack3471

Жыл бұрын

@@datachu Because the sandy hook victims were children.

@peppermillers8361

Жыл бұрын

the Sandy Hook game wouldn't exist without V-Tech rampage. Ever since V-Tech, he was asked to do or if he was gonna do something like it.

Honorable Mentions: PeTA Flash Games: Ironic that they were "for kids" even though the games have graphic content. Each ends with a video explaining to the viewer about the animals tortured in slaughterhouses were forced to be turned into meat, yadda yadda yadda, PeTA mumbo jumbo. The company even attacked Nintendo for stupid reasons, albeit on multiple occasions. AllDoctorGames/DressUpWho: Though these so called flash games for children didn't get much attention for being controversial, they are infamous because of their disturbing content including fetish material, disguised as something for kids to play on the internet. For example, Jontron reviewed one of the sites towards the end of Disney Bootlegs.

@masterseal0418

Жыл бұрын

@@SnoFitzroy The logo is spelled like that despite being all capitalized.

@Nuuk_Nuke_Nook

Жыл бұрын

To be fair, the Peta games did have a really nice point about factory farms and the incredibly inhumane treatment of animals, it's just a shame that... you know, PETA being PETA.

@UltimatePerfection

Жыл бұрын

Fun fact: Apparently PeTA has a free game on Nintendo Switch that's basically either Bomberman or Binding of Isaac ripoff (don't remember which one, sorry). Can't recall the name, but from the art it looks like it's targeting furries.

@masterseal0418

Жыл бұрын

@@UltimatePerfection Kitten Squad. It's graphic also.

@tasfiahaque1370

Жыл бұрын

@@Nuuk_Nuke_Nook As someone who played these games as a younger kid, I understand what they were trying to show but ultimately it made me more spiteful about it in a way cause even as a kid I thought the arguments were insane, and adding literal animal cruelty videos with no warning in a game for kids is even more insane. Like the seal maze one is actually horrifying once you realize it was made for KIDS.

I'd like to say the absurdist artstyle in the last game is absolutely stunning, and I sincerely hope the creator utilizes that style again for something on a topic that is not as sensitive.

@6Senor

Жыл бұрын

Yes, that art style looks badass. I just wish it was use in something less insensitive

@creature5966

Жыл бұрын

Yes, it felt so somber and creepy, also the way the children ran almost mimicked a rabbit or deer which was so weirdly depressing

@DatAnimatingBoi

Жыл бұрын

I personally find the artstyle more surreal and I think it fits the tone of the game, it still is pretty insensitive that he made the game, yet there is still a certain artistic flair to it that I kind of respect being an artist (that's not very good) myself

I remember the Torture game 2. It always scared me when I saw someone playing it. So many kids were playing it at the library, that it became a specific site that was banned, and if you were caught playing it, you lost computer privileges; Which I understand

@UltimatePerfection

Жыл бұрын

I don't. For the certain kind of people who would be drawn to this sort of a game, it was either torturing a bunch of pixels on screen, or torturing small animals, or even people IRL. I think you can guess which is worse.

@yanasto

Жыл бұрын

@@UltimatePerfection it’s not one or the other, actually. It’s usually an escalation - first violent games, fantasies, pornography, then violence toward weaker creatures, then so on and so forth.

@Windwalker88

Жыл бұрын

@@yanasto yeah. All those news items about people who are ripping out hearts after playing mortal kombat. We need to ban mortal kombat as soom as possible

@DigginThrough.MyOldMuscles.

Жыл бұрын

@@yanasto We need to ban Hot Wheels because they are reason behind car crash!

@subjectdelta3551

Жыл бұрын

I loved that game when I was a kid

I was so disappointed when PiGPEN decided to bully a random mother who's daughter died in Sandy Hook. The Sandy Hook game actually seemed like it was made empathetically and artfully and he must've realised the error of his ways but no, he's just as bad as he'd ever been.

@justanotherhtffan

Жыл бұрын

This is why I’ll never give people who make games based on school shootings the benefit of the doubt, no matter how “artsy” it is. They’re always insensitive little shitheads who just to want to make people feel terrible to appease their tiny egos.

@seilakkkk5252

Жыл бұрын

What you expected from a guy that made a game about a FREAKING school shooting

@VinVonVoom

Жыл бұрын

@@seilakkkk5252 Making a game about it doesn't necessarily entail you endorse it. The game about Columbine was good.

@seilakkkk5252

Жыл бұрын

@@VinVonVoom i don't care if the game is good it's still disrespectful to the victims' families.

@VinVonVoom

Жыл бұрын

@@seilakkkk5252 I wouldn't say so, if the game is thoughtful and careful on the topic then you can bring more awareness to the topic and help people reconcile what has happened. There are many games that deal with depression and for a lot of people it helps them get better when it's been recontextualized.

It didn't receive a lot of attention but I remember "Bill Cosby's Fun Game" where he'd literally lure people in with Jello Pudding then attack and bury them. That really didn't age well lol

@gmarlon61

Жыл бұрын

Lmao I remember that one. It got taken down from a few websites but I think that was actually more for copyright reasons than controversy.

@alostvocaloid

Жыл бұрын

OMG ME TOO!

the difference between the anita sarkeesian game and most of the old assasin games is that in those you clicked on an image of fred durst's head and it exploded as slipknot played in the background. this is just kinda gross lol.

@henrynelson9301

Жыл бұрын

What do you expect from gamergate lol

@mrfunnixd7381

Жыл бұрын

@@henrynelson9301 what's gamergate

@henrynelson9301

Жыл бұрын

@@mrfunnixd7381 kzread.info/dash/bejne/noCNuaqpl6zVedo.html

@NeedyBoBeedy

Жыл бұрын

@@mrfunnixd7381 it’s a gate kept by gamers

@user-pj1ec5om5g

Жыл бұрын

@@NeedyBoBeedy what’s behind the gate?

Oh... I forgot that #1 existed. I like to think I have a pretty thick skin but it's harder to just power through remembering a game that reminds me "oh hey, my mom almost died in that thing"

@birdie8006

Жыл бұрын

I'm so sorry to hear about this and I hope your mother finds peace and healing in her trauma.

@ackthegreat6697

Жыл бұрын

Wait really? Damn.

@ayajade6683

Жыл бұрын

@@ackthegreat6697 probably not it's common for trolls to lie on being connected to a tragedy or victim of a crime for attention. They're very common

@OFS_Razgriz

Жыл бұрын

Yeah same here. Just finished my last semester at Tech and I had a few friends/colleagues who were there on that day. Was not ready for the reminder of that one...

@weezarddd__

Жыл бұрын

oh jesus.. im really sorry for her, im really glad she lived and i hope she can heal from the trauma

34:26 So V-tech shooting game developer claimed it was better to kick the families of the victims while they were already down, rather than waiting for them to get back up....I suppose not kicking them at all simply wasn't an option.

@TuxerTuxar

4 ай бұрын

There isn't a "what if I just don't do this" option for an Internet Troll, y'know

5:40 lmao that guy is treating Kindergarten K*ller like it's some hidden page he discovered on the darkweb

@m9ddie

Жыл бұрын

LMFAOO

@youtubeisevil

4 ай бұрын

Says the one who censors the world Killer like it's a swear

@12DAMDO

4 ай бұрын

@@youtubeisevil KZread deleted my original comment so i censored it... also your reply doesn't mean anything

The irony is with the first game the guy defended himself by saying he didn’t release it a lot later… then he released it a lot later after another shooting -_-

The last game sucks cause that art style is so visually striking and beautiful, and it sucks that gross people seem to be great at art.

@burnttoast3925

Жыл бұрын

I know! It could be an incredible "you're the bad guy" type game if it wasnt based on an irl school shooting. Wasted talent is so disappointing to see.

@Nae_ex

Жыл бұрын

Hope he gets inspiration to make a *not based on disgusting crimes* game

@rockstickcomics

Жыл бұрын

He did, in fact he made it about social awkwardness

@GremlinEnby

Жыл бұрын

Well, it was him (pigpen) making the game to send a message about gun control using a real school shooting as an example for the message (Added point) Yes it is disgusting, that's the point, if he made a game trying to teach people about the imperative importance of gun control with any other example than you would call him a far left libtard who wants to steal your guns

@Skokapus

Жыл бұрын

@@burnttoast3925 the game is supposed to be a gun control commentary, you’re not supposed to feel good playing it. i agree so soon after a tragedy is incredibly insensitive. but again it’s not supposed to make you feel good

I remember I was about 10-12 when I first played The Torture Game. I was very curious into gore and horror and I was both excited and terrified as it loaded and when I played it...I was very underwhelmed Yeah it had blood but it did nothing to me. Then I stumbled into Leonore the Cute Little Dead Girl and that is what made me uncomfortable and scared.

@vehicleunhandler

Жыл бұрын

same i like bloody hell in games

@lordsock420

Жыл бұрын

i was also curious abt gore and morbid stuff around that age, i even used the torture game (and other edgy flash games at the time) to vent my frustration 😭

@saphirestorm7952

Жыл бұрын

Why am I not surprised because of your pfp and username-

@scanbbb

Жыл бұрын

What's in the Leonore game?

@yeehaw5889

Жыл бұрын

@@scanbbb ​ I don’t know if it ever had a game, but it was a comic and web series. From what I remember, it wasn’t as dark as poking fun at a school shooting, but it was pretty dark and violent, and the way it was shown as comedic didn’t help much

honorable note : dead baby dressup appeared in the binding of isaac as a unlock from beting moms heart a certain number of times the yboth have the same style too

@chenwingsee

Жыл бұрын

Thats because they're made by the same guy lmao

@dr_pebbles_frinkleboing

Жыл бұрын

@@chenwingsee they are?

@MementoMori7777

Жыл бұрын

​​@@dr_pebbles_frinkleboing Yeah, Edmund Macmillan. The guy that made super meat boy, and Fingered.

@dragonvarine7553

Жыл бұрын

@@dr_pebbles_frinkleboing They are but thats false. Dead baby dress up doesnt appear in Binding of Isaac. As someone whos played hundreds of hours of it, ive never seen it

@houseofsacrifice

Жыл бұрын

You mean the character, not the game. The dress up game is only on Newgrounds

Maybe I'm misremembering, but isn't Columbine RPG the game where, by the end, the two guys go to hell, fight DOOM enemies and end up being friends with the devil?

@hiddenthunder1395

Жыл бұрын

Yes, that one. It's a bloody miracle how rarely people talk about THAT part of the game. If I remember correctly, developer added it, because he thought the game was too short... A game about real life tragedy, in which you are the killer, yup.

@Orion_Otaku

Жыл бұрын

​@@hiddenthunder1395 I heard that he also made the game to have a better understanding about the shooters' motives, and how the game can discourage people who want to commit these atrocities into understanding how wrong it is.

Flashmuseum already has all of these lol X)

honestly i think the Torture Game 2 is a marvel of programming. insane that one person was able to make such a versatile physics system.

A lot of the commentary on the last two games were super heavy, but my god did you hold a very stable, and adult conversation about it. I enjoyed this video essay very much, thank you for creating it. I look forward to more!

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

The last game felt like an absolute rollercoaster of thoughts the way it was described here. For a second I was actually really impressed with the art, and the way that the dev's style had developed since the V-Tech game: that coupled with the real gun control information made me think he was trying to say something more significant. Then the game itself made me a bit unsure... and then once I heard he had messaged a victim's mother, I lost all sympathy for the guy. These people were going through one of the most traumatic times of their life, none of them needed something like this. I think a good takeaway from this video is that games with violence don't *have* to be edgy and pointlessly brutal, but those are the ones that attract attention. We widely accept shooters like the CoD series -- even though those are basically propaganda for the US military -- or games whose violence is clearly cartoonish, like Mausland's games. But games like 5, 2 and 1, or Hatred from some years ago, make headlines for doing the same thing but with less of a point to it. I hope it's something the internet has grown out of these days, because there's so much more we can do with the medium...

@barrelsynapse

Жыл бұрын

​@@MasterAlpha1000 mf wrote a whole ass essay

@strickenedcrash

Жыл бұрын

@@MasterAlpha1000 Cringe.

@seilakkkk5252

Жыл бұрын

@@MasterAlpha1000 cringe

@peppermillers8361

Жыл бұрын

Postal 1 did it decently (Redux included).

i love looking at certain dates on newgrounds like directly after 9/11 2001. people were so pissed off they made games about it IMMEDIATELY.

Holy Crap, This just brought me back to my misspent childhood of going through all these edgy ass Newgrounds flash games and finding them hilarious and entertaining.

Somehow, this video made me really understand school shootings. Before I'd known they happened and I always felt some spark of sadness, but watching a recreation of them hit me differently. It feels so much more real and depressing now.

@birdie8006

Жыл бұрын

Reading timelines from victims from Columbine and such is what really made it sink in for me. Now I have nightmares on occasion about being caught in a school during a mass shooting, and I've already graduated from college. Recently, I couldn't even bear to watch the footage of the Uvalde mass shooting where the screams of the children were edited out to make the audio less disturbing. My GOD. It's just so unbelievable. Unbelievable. How could anyone do such a thing to a child? To another human being? It makes me feel like this country is just shameful to live in.

@yamii3281

Жыл бұрын

i developed a new sensitivity to even hearing about it after experiencing one. nowadays that footage of even the stupid little cartoony flash games made me sick.

@yotetoob

Жыл бұрын

Please be copypasta jfc 💀

@Romanticoutlaw

Жыл бұрын

I would give up everything to live in your world. I was out of high school in the early 2010's but even by that point the threat of it felt increasingly tangible

@idrinksinkwater7602

Жыл бұрын

I agree. This is so awful, I can't believe we would actually do this to our own kind. Not just that, but children!? WHAT IS WRONG WITH US

Interesting how in gun control mode, the spree killer just takes a different weapon. It's almost like.. Almost like the actual issue is the mental health crisis in the US rather than what tools we have access to.

@annawanna5995

8 ай бұрын

I think it's both tbh.

@handlestwice

2 ай бұрын

@annanunna No it’s just the first one.

these are all still playable on FlashMuseum

I remember the torture game controversy, my parents were big on spreading its awareness bc my little brother was obsessed with it strange what we get nostalgia from

@lav-kitty

Жыл бұрын

should I bet your brother isn't harming anyone nowadays irl and is just an exotic kid?

I remember playing The Torture Game 2, along with other disturbing games, when I was a minor. At the same time, NG had, and continues to have, some really nice games and animations on it. It also makes me miss Flash as an engine, even though it was a nightmare to make anything with.

Just remember the Supreme Court ruled games do NOT cause violence.

@hund7458

Жыл бұрын

may i ask the name of the case that led to that ruling? just curious to see what it was all about

@Lycaon1765

Жыл бұрын

The supreme court isn't the one that gets to decide. This is about mental issues, not the legal process.

@robynhoodie

Жыл бұрын

They ruled games are free speech. That isn't the same as passing judgement on psychological effects. You'll have to look elsewhere for those findings.

@2leftthumbs

Жыл бұрын

If I'm looking at the correct case (BROWN vs ENTERTAINMENT MERCHANTS ASSN) their ruling included, "Psychological studies purporting to show a connection between exposure to violent video games and harmful effects on children do not prove that such exposure causes minors to act aggressively. Any demonstrated effects are both small and indistinguishable from effects produced by other media." Another part of the ruling protected the free speech rights of video games. But this section seems to state that research has failed to prove videos game cause violence. I don't think the ruling, as it stands, creates an ironclad precedent that no video can/will ever cause violence. Someone could probably still argue against this in court with new research? I'm no lawyer, so I could be looking in the wrong places, or misinterpreting!

@doktawhawee9870

Жыл бұрын

The supreme court also decided that I wasn't epic enough so they r wrong

Probably didn't get much media attention as it wasn't as blatantly controversial (most kids wouldn't understand half of it), but I do wonder how controversial :the game: actually was in the long run.

@shcdemolisher

Жыл бұрын

The creator of that trilogy also made a game about anxiety a few years ago.

@cooler_carpington

Жыл бұрын

​@@shcdemolisher and now draws furry femboy porn...

@potatortheomnipotentspud

Жыл бұрын

@@shcdemolisher They also made a game showcasing and lambasting how major "news" outlets work, it was called "We Become What We Behold."

@shcdemolisher

Жыл бұрын

@@potatortheomnipotentspud oh. I’ll have to check that out. Though I can easily imagine what that entails. Which to be fair, we do need more criticizing the news for what they’ve become.

@tasfiahaque1370

Жыл бұрын

@@shcdemolisher All of the creators games are rlly good. I especially like the simulator ones explaining complex topics, the madness of crowds and the evolution of trust

Blaming guns for gun violence is dumb, maybe blame people? You're not going to blame cars for car accidents/violence

@Hithere-uz6wd

8 ай бұрын

Fair point, kinda. Guns are meant to subdue while cars are meant to transport.

Bro people ask me why I'm such a weird person in school and yet we all know we played these games when I was 8 and I thought "this is so fun!". But for the V-tech one, I just have to say, if you're going to make a school shooting game, go the route that doesn't make everyone hate you just so you could troll?

Idk if you’ll read this but thank you for teaching me what the Streisand effect was I’ve always heard about it but never understood.

As a current student at Virginia Tech, the 32 students who lost their lives are still thought of daily on campus. It’s even a rule that you don’t speak by the 32 stones in memorial of them in front of the building where it happened.

I don't think the issue is firearms or video games. It is mental health. Taking legal weapons out of the hands of non criminals will only put them in danger against criminals with illegal firearms. I also wouldn't trust a government that doesn't give its people a way to fight back should things turn sour.

@VinVonVoom

Жыл бұрын

It's so silly hearing Americans cope about how making guns illegal will increase gun crime as an Australian. Although given the current climate in America, I do agree that gun control should be held back until the fascism backs off.

@albertoftasmania

Жыл бұрын

@@VinVonVoom "Until fascism backs off", as a fellow Australian (though my state should go out on it's own, we're stuck together for now) I'd like to say that that's ridiculous. Do you think it will ever just "back off" forever? Once the means by which of keeping authoritarianism out is gone you can't get rid of it. Unfortunately Americans are too stupid to actually use their firearms to put their tyrants' necks in ropes, but at least they still have it. The thing about gun violence increasing makes sense. The cities in the US with the strictest gun control measures are the ones with the highest gun violence rate -- the reason could be because people aren't effectively able to defend themselves. It's another reason why schools and shopping malls that disallow gun carrying result in gun violence, because people with the intent to kill do not listen to those rules. Criminals intent on killing will not give up their guns come a ban and even generations down the line their will be a large country to their south known for it's cartels, drug, people, and gun smuggling. On top of that you have people making their own weapons, which is pretty easy all things considered. We've got compound bows freely available and we don't see shootings with those. If people here were intent on going on a shooting rampage they would buy a compound bow and go on a rampage. They don't because we have a different culture around the mentally ill and people are less compelled to such actions. It's getting worse and I expect it to happen eventually, as we've already had a good few shooting rampages here in recent years. Australia does not have this last problem, because we're an island. We cannot project our policies onto other countries and just assume it would work, the US has tried that with the middle east and that worked awfully.

@incognitoomen7898

Жыл бұрын

@@VinVonVoom I am not American. I live in a country that has strict gun control, and our crime has skyrocketed because of it, because we can't prptect ourselves

I didn’t expect Australia to be brought up so much in an offensive flash games video, in fact this is the most times I’ve heard ANYONE speak about Australia well, outside of stereotypes. Oh and, good video, would love to see more controversial games lists!

@cloudneverclear

Жыл бұрын

Bro roasted Australia 3 times in one comment my guy is literally ascended

@PLAYER42_ready

Жыл бұрын

@@cloudneverclear me who’s from Australia:

@Beyblade_worrior

Жыл бұрын

I’m an Aussie who was raised on this stuff love new grounds to this day, thought it would be a lot more well known here

@steampunk-llama

Жыл бұрын

@@Beyblade_worrior same

@chrisnemec5644

Жыл бұрын

Well, they say Australia Man is second only to Florida Man... just be glad he didn't feature the works of Klacid, who made a bunch of child pr0n flash games.

Anyone else used to play tons of Hentai flash games? I played a lot of the dress up ones...

@2leftthumbs

Жыл бұрын

No. Never. Of course not. What depraved behavior! Why is everyone looking at me?! I'd never play that filth! I swear!! And continually denying it is only bound to convince you further that I'm telling the truth. I only watch Newgrounds' E-rated content. Nothing else! I had to make this entire video with my eyes closed to maintain my innocence.

@Arella17

Жыл бұрын

Some of those games were hilarious as hell. I remember one that was just actual hentai gifs sandwiched between really bad jokes.

@kx7500

Жыл бұрын

And you know it’s kids playing them most lmao

@TheShadow7771

Жыл бұрын

It's funny how quaint the MnF games are looking back at them now when they were such big parts of my development. Almost embarrassing, really.

@Shyguymask

Жыл бұрын

Newgrounds adult section was something else

Jesus Christ Graeme... I'm so sorry for the situation you're in i swear. I'm specifically talking about how you make all these long and awesome videos and only like... 1 in 10 get the appreciation they deserve... You're probably the top Flash Historian! And I'm not forgetting all your other amazing videos. You definitely deserve more then this

@dollymix5

Жыл бұрын

Wellp. I just got to know his channel now. Can't wait till I have time to watch all his vid. With time he will get recognizion

I had this on in the background and when I heard about the Torture games that brought back a flood of memories. I used to play that all the time and never realized what a big deal it was. Might have to give that unity version a look.

USA: *allows people to carry guns* USA also: *It's those damn video games!*

I think the issue with those types of shooting games is that they don't go for the jugular hard enough. If they did it right new anchors would be too afraid to even cover it because THEY would be the ones to come out looking bad from it.

@phantom8926

Жыл бұрын

What'd you have in mind?

@LauraBow

Жыл бұрын

@@phantom8926 I'd start by not basing it on a real shooting. The real victims have been through enough and it gives the news media a chance to cry crocodile tears over it while ignoring the real issue. Maybe start with a game where you're playing as a kid trying to escape the school during a shooting. You'll always fail b/c gun but maybe in between levels you'll get "tips" and "hints" that mirror the excuses used to brush off irl shootings. Of course it never actually works and every level you'd get your head blown off. You could get all sorts of commentary from how lucrative the gun industry is (... and Im sure news stations make a big profit everytime this happens...) to the machoman culture centered around guns. I guess overall if you're going to do something like this you really need to know what you're doing and what you're saying.

@phantom8926

Жыл бұрын

@@LauraBow I take it you're anti gun then?

@LauraBow

Жыл бұрын

@@phantom8926 Not completely. I just don't think this culture takes guns as seriously as it should.

@phantom8926

Жыл бұрын

@@LauraBow how so?

I actually used to play around with "The Torture Game 2". I wanted a game where I could just mess around with a ragdoll and destroy it in whatever ways I wanted. Somehow stumbled upon it. Shortly after I found one that was more of like blocky sort of people? If you're familiar with the game People Playground, you can kinda Invision what the characters looked like on that other game. I admit my flash game habits were super edgy for no reason at all when I was younger, but hey, I've moved past that now.

@HUNdebLeonidasX

Жыл бұрын

"Mutilate a doll" I guess

@emrickazor2610

Жыл бұрын

@@HUNdebLeonidasX that's the one! I knew I'd remember after I heard the name.

@Bri-lk7re

Жыл бұрын

@@HUNdebLeonidasX There truly were so many game like this. And i think i played them all, which is crazy

@someonessecondaltaccount6932

Жыл бұрын

@@HUNdebLeonidasX my god mutilate a doll is my childhood

@bluemagician9724

Жыл бұрын

I remember making fantasy characters in MaD2

7:32 "Lastenpelit" literially translates to kids' games.

@2leftthumbs

Жыл бұрын

Neat! Thanks for the translation :) Prooobably not a great site for that game to be posted on... O_o

@Game_Erica

Жыл бұрын

I can't believe no one checked the game before adding it on there. It's not the worst out there, but definitely not good for kids (also torille)

I still hate that people blame video hames on these things when now it’s most likely to be something like older siblings, parents/poor parenting, or an influencer, and even when something violent happens related to video games or movies and it connects, there are usually far more worrying things going on with that person.

@pessimisticdiabetic717

Жыл бұрын

Especially with most of these games being for an audience of 18+ especially with games on newgrounds, which was usually to the fault of parents giving their children unrestricted internet access

@stephaniethebatter7975

9 ай бұрын

Yeah, the video games are usually just smoke to a fire but at worst, inspiration for someone who already wanted to do those things.

The Torture Game 2 is pretty based, the main problem is that right clicking does a lot, but since it's a Flash game that also doesn't block the context menu, it means there's a context menu quite frequently.

@joseurbanos.domingo6344

Жыл бұрын

I remember my friend creating art work with it before it got ban on school.

Oh wow... The last game art style and animation is really cool... I wish more games are doing this kind of stuff where the gameplay and the animation blend so well, that it almost felt like an animated film... Sort of like the Forgotton Anne (although Forgotton Anne is at a different level entirely)...

I remember playing the torture game as a kid, specifically the second one. It's so terrifying to me, it was hard to play even though the "dummy" never spoke. Something about them looking broken and disheveled scared me especially the razor tool-

1 and 2 really bring back old memories last year it was not a school shooting but really felt like what I imagine one to be a high schooler and his girlfriend skipped school the girlfreinds father is very much overprotected and tracked the girlfriends phone and shot at the boyfriend it hit the wall causing the boyfriend to get debris wounds he went to my school and that's the lockdowns and ambulances and the father has tons of felony charges now thankfully no deaths but it was shocking to all and made rounds around the state as it was after the Uvalde Texas School Shooting

@birdie8006

Жыл бұрын

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. Even a near-thing can be traumatizing. I hope you were all provided counselors to speak with?

@flameuptheherbwoofdownthebeer

Жыл бұрын

The dad probably had a good reason to shoot him, you didnt add any more details but i think the reason the dad shot at him is his age, he was probably alot older than the girl and that made the dad snap (as it would anyone). its the guys fault for going to a school after tho, first place id think of is the police station, my house or the hospital.

@samuelraytheweirdcontentgu8551

Жыл бұрын

@@flameuptheherbwoofdownthebeer the father was overprotected and had no reason to shoot and now he's in jail with tons of felonys they were both around the age of 16 - 18 it was also year detail's are still fuzzy

@flameuptheherbwoofdownthebeer

Жыл бұрын

@@samuelraytheweirdcontentgu8551 Makes sense why,he only got one kid and its a girl, women are more prone to violence being commited against them, probably shouldnt have fired at him tho, i think the sight of a gun alone would scare him enough.

This video didn't get to me until the last two entries. It fully hit me when at the last one, the player walked into an open door and this happened 47:30 . It got me, I'm not sure why but that was the bit that got me. This segment hurt on another level because I was in elementary school when sandy hook happened, I remember hiding in closets and turning off lights for drills and seeing a kid even if it was just a digital representation of one getting killed and knowing that they were probably around my age, it hurts a bit. No kid should have to worry about a getting killed at school and while some games can inform and show what happened in a respectful manner the games that don't make me sick sometimes. But anyways sorry for the rant.

Honestly, the Kindergarten Killer game is just a magnificent troll: It was made to shock, and someone had to fall for this trap. The dude presents it as a secret way to make kids violent, however, the game itself was never known before, and if it wasn't for YOU, 2 Left Thumbs, I wouldn't have known it existed. This reveals that medias who support the thesis of "Video games make people violent" are actually wrong: They try on purpose to pick the most violent games just to prove their thesis, even those that no one knew or played before and thus were harmless. The limit is when they try to cherry pick the most obscure games out of the market, and forget that there's worse and more popular.

I don’t usually have an issue with blood and gore, but the thought of using a razor to peel people’s skin made me dizzy for a split second.

I remember watching my brother play that torture sim game when we were kids. Dude grew up to be a psycho, sometimes I wonder if playing this game is what kept him from tearing limbs off frogs.

@lav-kitty

Жыл бұрын

it's really not that deep lol dw

@realleon2328

Жыл бұрын

@@lav-kitty for him it was

This video was very informative and well researched. I’m now going to binge your entire content backlog.

I remember one flash game where you played as scide bomber and tried to take out as many people as possible. Sometimes their clothes would all fly off. Pretty messed up childhood memory, surprised nobody has ever mentioned the game on one of these "controversial game" lists.

I knew a guy who made a response to the Anita Sarkeesian game through a game of his own on Scratch. It was called "Defend Anita Sarkeesian" and had the weirdest credits music. It was "Smiles and Tears" from EarthBound, but with lyrics about gun rights. No, really. It was simply called "Get a Gun." Words cannot do it justice.

@potatortheomnipotentspud

Жыл бұрын

Simps, man

@thefakepie1126

Жыл бұрын

@@potatortheomnipotentspud what's your point? anita didn't deserve any of the harassement and threats, it's not being a "simp" to counter the horrors of b-gots, are you aware of that?

@Ablaire

Жыл бұрын

LMAOO I didn’t expect “lyrics about gun rights” right after they had used Smiles and Tears, God that killed me

@alexfc679

Жыл бұрын

@@thefakepie1126 you are french

@andromeda_va39

Жыл бұрын

@@thefakepie1126 He thought a Pokemon with the nickname "Allah's chosen" using Explosion was funny. When he got called out, instead of apologizing, he doubled down and said it was "just a joke." Isn't that somewhat bigoted?

I played the torture game when I was a kid and had no idea it was controversial

God, I remember the Torture Game 2.. My dad and I would go on newgrounds and play some of the games (like Dad and Me), and I remember playing that one a lot when I was REALLY young (younger than 10 I think). I never thought much of it growing up, but thinking about it now it's pretty fucked up.

@comradesam3382

Жыл бұрын

Yea, I played it when I was Like 9 , looking back it was really fcked up

@MYNAMACHEF

Жыл бұрын

As a kid you don't have the capacity to fully understand and imagine how violent and painful that game is i guess lol

@frogblasttheventcore69

Жыл бұрын

Still though, a dad and their child playing Dad 'n' Me is kind of wholesome

@nur-aminjawad2035

8 ай бұрын

God i forgot torture game i tried finding it again and trying remember its name and ive forgotten it and other flash games

What I feel the worst about is how genuinely pretty Slaying looks. It's got a really interesting style, and has an actual message beyond "look at these kids dying isn't that suuuuper shocking," and yet still gets lumped in with stuff like Kindergarten Killer.

It is pronounced New Town not newton. Newtown is New Town! Autism affecting my ability to handle that aside, I was in elementary school in the neighboring town of Bethel when Sandy Hook happened. We went on lockdown right before recess but they wouldn't tell us why and the adults where very tense while we played in our classrooms. It was weird not knowing why so many parents were showing up to pick their kids up early from school, while I had to stay after because my parents where not able to get out of work. I found out later.

Dunno how much this helps, but I enjoy these flash videos a whole lot, and am sorry they dont get as much attention as your UTDR stuff, I hope you make more flash content in the future!

It's kind of hilarious to see the leap in real time from "look at these idiots blaming videogames for violence. Clearly, we need a different inanimate object to blame for everything. Like guns. God forbid we blame people or any effects and circumstances that could push people towards such a thing. We have this other easy scapegoat to pin everything on instead,".

The one that haunts me the most was a game where you had to wake up Snorlax...and when you failed, you used a saw to wake up him it cut him open and all his guts were flying across the screen while he screamed.

You brought back memories when you mentioned the torture game 2, because I played it a lot when I was younger. Probably shouldn't have considering my age, but it didn't scar me funnily. VL

I remember playing one where you were a scuicide bomber when I was a kid but forgot the name. My mum was really shocked and told me to not play it but I still did.

Question: what is PigPen doing now, and also where does his morality stand?

The thing with anita is that she sees misogyny on literally everything, that and most of her points are completely invalid to people who actually knows about videogames, she talks like 99% of the games are about a damsel in distress or that anything sexual is bad, if anything I'm glad her 5 minutes of fame are over.

@doctabaldhead

Жыл бұрын

Peach being her go-to example from the start told me all I needed to know about her. It was clear that she was an outrage merchant who never knew anything about games when her main example of a damsel in distress has been an on and off hero since the second game in the series.

Cannot believe how much I played the torture game 2 as a kid. So bizzare

We need more footage of banjo the cat

I've found so many great animators on New Grounds and Albino Blacksheep between 2003 to 2006 and followed them over to KZread.

and of course you can't talk about flash games controversies without talking about the one that started it all: Pico's School great video

Seeing the number 4 game (Torture game 2) brought back memories, I used to play it a lot during my 13-18, never thought it was controversial in the US. Just liked it because of the ragdoll physics, like pulling the character until it started glitching and moving everywhere

@nur-aminjawad2035

8 ай бұрын

I tried to find it and trying to remember its name and have forgotten it playing flash games

awesome video!! even though the subject got pretty dark especially towards the end, you kept my interest the whole time! also seeing art i did for fulpware at the end gave me a bit of a jumpscare hahaha

I played that torture game as a child and was always sad I couldn't refind it. Thank you for covering it, mini nostalgia

This is such a high quality video, but the algorithm just stamped on this videos viewership. Hoping it somehow gets picked up.

I can't help but always feel that for the topic of "teenage violence" the people blaming guns know as much about guns, as the people blaming games know about games.

@Hithere-uz6wd

8 ай бұрын

I doubt that either option is more safe

Okie so I'm looking for a flash game from my teenage years. You played as a terrorist. Had a rpg that you guided, grenades an finally you had a bomb strap to you an you'd run into a a group to cause maximum damage. If I remember right the was an upgrade tree. There were also a couple sequels that expanded on things. More weapons, explosives, you could customize your character. Also the civilians you blew up were apart of all different groups. Like basically everything thats a stereotype. Also I think the word Mayhem was in the title. If anyone can help me find it much appreciated.

@loukialoukia646

3 ай бұрын

i know its been two years but the game is called mass mayhem

FlashMuseum still has them playable on ur browser lol

I did not expect phoenotopia to be in this video. And fortunately not for the reasons you'd expect. Having played both the original and remake, this is the first time I've heard any outsider info... For how much a flash game documentation channel talking about a flash game counts as outside.

Bro… I just came across this video, and I want to just absolutely THANK YOU for the Ray flash games… you absolutely made my childhood.

wow the people who made those games based on actual shootings are absolutely disgusting people,,,, jeezus

Weird that this video is 3 months old but I only just got a notif for it. Great video, you did a top notch job picking examples, detailing what they were about and unearthing old news footage, even reaching out to Tom Fulp himself to make sure you got things right. That's journalistic integrity, there. Newgrounds is still kind of "edgy" although it no longer has the mean streak that it used to have (the internet in general felt a lot more ruthless at the time, Something Awful used to be a lot meaner, too). Nothing but love for NG and respect for Tom.

On the Anita thing if I recall correctly the scam part was that her show took like 5 years to come out completely or something like that and it was pointed to as a point of contention regarding her intentions

@UltimatePerfection

Жыл бұрын

And then it didn't really look like something you would have to spend 160k on, or even the 6k that was the original goal. More like 1k (gear+games to talk about, and then likely even less, since she seemingly recorded the pitch video on the same thing she was recording episodes).

@theonlybilge

Жыл бұрын

And then she opened a crowdfunding campaign to open a discord server and claimed an absurd amount of minimum money to open one. You can open a discord server for free.

@uncleruckus3008

Жыл бұрын

She scammed a bunch of losers out of their money using a medium she didn't really care about to prop up her scam. Gotta admit it's really fucking impressive even know people still defend her it's amazing I would kill to have her media manipulation skills.

@isaacsteele7986

Жыл бұрын

@@uncleruckus3008 "Media Manipulation Skills" She just made an argument where people could not call her out because she was a women, and highlighted everyone that said stupid things as a springboard to call anyone that criticized her all the typcial names that get peoples attention. It wouldnt be anything is the media didnt use it. What you really see from it is how easily people will latch onto things that dont matter because their told to care. I cant beleive its still a conversation years later. I mean, I have never even seen or interacted with a single person that has mentioned or claimed to side with "gamergate" despite being a gamer myself.

@Zorro9129

Жыл бұрын

@@isaacsteele7986 I paid attention to Gamergate while it was going on, though I was not involved, and the propaganda against it is BS. Yeah, with a dispersed protest movement there's bound to be some people who go too far (though a good deal of the harassment was astroturfed), but it was focused on instead of the genuine claims of corruption in media. Turns out, if you try to expose people with existing reach and connections in the media, they'll use said reach and connections to paint you as the bad guy instead.

As a woman, I disliked Anita a lot. It felt like she ignored most of us women in the gaming space. Anyway, she didn’t deserve all the threats, no one does. It was a messy situation over all.

@the-NightStar

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I get having a kneejerk angry reaction to her and she is a legitimately awful person..... But the way people reacted to her was just the childish wailing of a bunch of gut-reactionary manchildren and they were all just as terrible as she was.

@polocatfan

Жыл бұрын

receiving threats shouldn't be a defense for one's actions though. someone can do shitty things and still recieve threats. that doesn't automatically mean you suddenly become in the right.

@PureMaddnessOne

Жыл бұрын

Like 99% of them where her she send 2 herself, so she could play victim more and that ppl would send more money 2 her. Hence why she and her group were the actual villains of gamergate.

@Journey_to_who_knows

Жыл бұрын

I’m convinced 90% of those cases are just fake. “Oh no I did something wrong, I need sympathy back.” Suddenly everyone is talking about something else.

@HOVNA

Жыл бұрын

​​@@PureMaddnessOnef you actually believe that there is no hope for you. A whole community was built on hating on those people for years.

Oh man, just finished my last semester at Tech and was not ready for how hard that last one hit. Some people are just awful man.

This is one of the most coherent videos I have ever watched, it’s hard to explain how infatuated I was while watching and the way you flow through sentences is nothing short of amazing, you’re a great KZreadr and you get to the point while having tangents that apply and give contrasting views that help to understand new and interesting perspectives.

@2leftthumbs

Жыл бұрын

Wow, thank you so much for that! I sometimes worry that I'm rambling, or failing to land salient points. I really wanted to take my time with this video, and make sure I wasn't mishandling the more serious subject matter. I'm glad to hear those efforts were appreciated :)

I'm guessing you didn't even bother putting ads on this video, but I'm worried this could actually demonetize your entire channel.

@2leftthumbs

Жыл бұрын

I tried my best to present things in a way that would not bring youtube's hammer down on my head. But I know merely mentioning some of these topics has gotten some channels in trouble. I don't think it could go so far as demonetizing the channel. I'll fight that tooth and nail if it does somehow go that far. But there is a good chance this video will get demonetized/age-restricted. As crappy as that would be, that's a risk I chose to take.

Woah! I didn’t know you created the ray flash game series! That game was fucking dope. You should work on a remaster some day!

It may not have been 'controversial' as such, but one of the other games that got deleted from Newgrounds that personally traumatized me was a game called 'The Ugly' about playing as a school child who comes home to find a serial killer in their house and their parents murdered.

@doctabaldhead

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, that one was pretty fucked. If I recall correctly it presented itself in a very stark and real way with a killer who was more like BTK than a horror slasher and that made it extra disturbing.

@certifiedsifter9016

Жыл бұрын

The game is still up on newgrounds. It’s a half-decent puzzle game in my opinion.

I find it very hypocritical how people find school shooting games disgusting but are fine with games and films that sanitise or glorify American wars and invasions which have led to far more loss of life.

@ahpjlm

Жыл бұрын

how does that have to do with anything

@huntsman9316

Жыл бұрын

This isn't related at all😂😂 you good?

@sonwig5186

Жыл бұрын

@@huntsman9316 No I'm not good. Millions of people die each year totally preventably. I am furious.

Imagine defending Sarkeesian, oof my man

@ngultrum1

9 ай бұрын

The entire video reeks of reddit at times.

I remember being more disturbed by the Teacher’s voice than the game itself.

What used to be the "old" internet has been effectively scrubbed as forums and independent sites have been replaced with censorious and one-sided social media giants. Many Flash games are gone because of this, and I fear that games in general will fall afoul of the same trends due to social changes and centralization. Game "journalism" has been a disaster as depicted in the video and the sort of people who run will stop at nothing to remove things and people they don't like.

Wait just a minute. You may get this question a lot, but this is my first video of yours I'm seeing."From the creator of Ray?" As in, the Ray series from Newgrounds? You're that guy? That's amazing. As I recall, your games courted a little controversy back in the day as well. At least when I tried to play them during elementary computer lab.

If he wanted to show his message in a shocking format, I understand. But he lost all credibility when he refused to listen to the victims of the tragedy, argued them that they should relive the worst day of their lives but instead in the perspective of their lost loved one. Each child you shoot in that game was a real child. A real child who will never have another birthday, holiday, nothing. And it's in the name, there is no disputing that these aren't the real victims because then it wouldn't be a game about Sandy Hook. Telling a mother who lost her child that she should play a game where she shoots her own child is vile, no matter what message you are trying to send. I don't care for censorship, and I think people's freedom of speech is important. But just because you can doesn't always mean you should. His game should've been a game not tied to any real tragedy if he wanted to spread his message. Maybe it would'nt have made as much of an impact, but he had no class in his response to NewGrounds decisions, his response to the victims, etc.

It's going to be a good video when the first thing on screen in a pre-Behemoth game

Noooooo, why did the last game have to have such good arrrrt.

Probably nitpicky but why keep showing Bayonetta when talking about misogyny? Bayonetta's design was made by a woman and her sexuality resonates with women. Far from misogynistic.

@toothfl3sh

Жыл бұрын

because Anita was saying that Bayonetta was created for the sexual pleasure of men, another example of her not doing research

@the-NightStar

Жыл бұрын

It's because Bayonetta was frequently a target for Anita's ignorant attacks. I agree with you and apparently so does the video maker, just saying that it's being shown becuase it highlights exactly how Anita didn't know what she was talking about and was only a scam artist attempting to exploit a hot-button issue without putting any thought into it or caring about context.

@arcturus4762

Жыл бұрын

Anita isn’t exactly a bright person, but holy hell is she good at scamming people. Either that or her target audience is even dumber than her.

@fluidwolf

Жыл бұрын

Anita frequently seemed to target Bayonetta which shows how often misinformed or wrong she was about the things she talked about. Which is probably part of why it was shown a bunch here as examples for legit reasons people didn't like her content.

@MementoMoriGrizzly

Жыл бұрын

You know what's pretty ironic? That women claim that doing porn and sex work is liberating and feels empowering, but if a video game has a hot woman, then it's suddenly objectifying and wrong. I mean I saw numerous women drinking a dudes piss from a bowl and vomiting from getting deep throated, that talked on streams claiming they felt that doing these clips made them feel powerful. Are feminists really that stupid?

A painting made of blood sounds like something from a RPG maker terror game

I'm pretty sure this video is gonna get HARD buried, so I may as well comment to help the tiniest bit, as this is a good video. Something that I noticed is that most of these controversies happened quite a while ago, at least a decade at this point, and I'm honestly glad for that. While there will always be bottom of the barrel trolls (pointing to number two here), i'm glad we on the Internet have begun moving forward from the whole "woah it's so shocking look I did something offensive!" type beat, y'know? Let's use the number two example, V-tech rampage. It's painfully obvious it was made for no other reason than a troll maliciously trying to piss off as many people as possible (and unfortunately succeeded). For the most part, you don't see shit like that get widespread or "mainstream" anymore. Any malicious troll content usually only gets to a small amount of people, and get pushed away/ignored pretty quickly. Being on the internet since I was a wee lad (early 2010's, which isn't that early in the internet but still a noteworthy time period imo), i'm pleased to see we're starting to move past being mean spirited for attention. It feels like, even the tiiiiniest bit, the internet overall has become a kinder, more considerate, and more thoughtful place. Granted, that doesn't mean jack as this place is still a hell hole of evil people, but one step is still movement, and I find comfort in that. Forgive me if this makes little sense as I literally just finished the video and am collecting my thoughts lol

@doomyboi

Жыл бұрын

tbh I don't think it's so much that the internet denizens have become nicer (they clearly haven't) and more that they've become more confined (the popular sites moving from being things done for fun in the owner's spare time to professional companies seeking money). The internet in the 2000s and before was basically the Wild West with traffic being more widely distributed across all kinds of start-up sites trying to make their way, nowadays most of the common day traffic is relegated to a handful of heavily-moderated social media sites. I think this is basically how it went with film and radio.

@neoqwerty

Жыл бұрын

@@doomyboi I think it's more just that Google and the other big search engines need so much SEO that we aren't getting pushed at those sites anymore. When's the last time a massive, obsessively detailed RPG Shrine site about an SNES game was on the first page of your search results for that game, instead of buried under barebone wiki aand wikia articles, as an example?