Fun fact: 3 of the games in this video were written by Chris Avellone - He was the lead writer on Planescape Torment, he was one of the writers for Fallout New Vegas (not lead on the base game, but wrote several characters, and was also the lead on the Dead Money, Old World Blues, and Lonesome Road DLCs), and he was the lead writer on Knights of the Old Republic 2 - specifically Kreia was entirely him, as was the bulk of the Sith in the game. Love him or hate him, Avellone knows how to write complex topics.

@spencer1531

4 ай бұрын

I found out recently he also wrote the best Divinity character, Fane. Who is kind of like a mix of Morte and the nameless one now that I think about it

@calonordstoast

4 ай бұрын

Forever grateful for his KOTOR 2 work.

@cptamazingone

4 ай бұрын

Kreia is such a great foil. She makes you think. She drags every action into the light.@@calonordstoast

As the mother of a gamer, and a Mental Health Professional, I appreciate you more than I could ever express.❤

@viewtifuljoe4412

6 ай бұрын

Hello Miss, Hope you and your son are both well. I have a curiosity question if I may with regards to your line of work: For context I do not believe this is the case as humans have been violent since our inception, but choosing to put that aside: Do you see any correlation with video games and violent individuals who act on it or do you believe there is no evidence to connect the two as in video games do not cause people to act violently? I hope my question does not seem loaded or misleading in anyway. If you choose not to answer I also understand completely. Take care and safe travels to you both.

@robertl426

6 ай бұрын

@@viewtifuljoe4412 I know you posed your question to someone else, but I hope you don't mind me offering my opinion. Studies have shown no correlation, and there are age ratings for a reason. If anything it's the other way around, people predisposed to violence are going to be drawn to violent media, whether that be video games, movies or both. For all the cases of killers who liked violent media, there are the vast majority of us who watched horror movies and played violent games as kids that grew up to be perfectly normal law abiding citizens.

@loubloom1941

6 ай бұрын

Lol

@maxderrat

6 ай бұрын

God bless you, AWC!

@viewtifuljoe4412

6 ай бұрын

@@robertl426 I agree with you as I stated in my post to her ^_^ Though I have my beliefs I do want to allow for objectivity because perhaps there are other factors in either case to be considered.

As a Philosophy degree holder, Soma's "emotional gut punch" was intense - one of my all-time favorite games, and will always stick with me.

@vazzeg

6 ай бұрын

Same. I play it yearly at least around December to close out the year. A year ago I suffered a mild concussion and have memory and focusing problems, so this year will be the first year I play it with my own share of brain injury although not as severe as Simon's.

@AndSaveAsManyAsYouCan

6 ай бұрын

Don't forget about 80's / 90's cartoons. The ability to kill of Optimus Prime, the leader / father of the autobots (as well as many "father less" children), in theaters (bringing countless children to tears while breaking their hearts) just to make way to introduce and sell more toys / profit (when they could have left him alive) shows how soulless and evil "corporate greed" truly is.

@ultimaxkom8728

3 ай бұрын

@@AndSaveAsManyAsYouCan What

@AndSaveAsManyAsYouCan

3 ай бұрын

​@@ultimaxkom8728I'm old. I grew up on the cartoons in the 80s & 90s. Some of them had deep messages. The 1986 transformers movie taught us the evils of corporate greed.

@ultimaxkom8728

3 ай бұрын

@@AndSaveAsManyAsYouCan What does that have anything to do with OP's comment?

Games about philosophy are my favorite. Since games make you actually go through the experience, it really is *you* thinking about the questions the game presents. And how everyone wants to figure it out together, generates a sense of community and almost like a collective research.

@FoxyCAMTV

6 ай бұрын

Disco Elysium was too much.

@thrashingputz5163

6 ай бұрын

"And how everyone wants to figure it out together, generates a sense of community and almost like a collective research." Ironic when most of these games barely leave anything to be pondered on due to their overwritten, over-explanatory delivery, unlike an obvious missing title unmatched in fostering this sort of community.

@EmperorsNewWardrobe

6 ай бұрын

Any particular examples for you?

@AndSaveAsManyAsYouCan

6 ай бұрын

Don't forget about 80's / 90's cartoons. The ability to kill of Optimus Prime, the leader / father of the autobots (as well as many "father less" children), in theaters (bringing countless children to tears while breaking their hearts) just to make way to introduce and sell more toys / profit (when they could have left him alive) shows how soulless and evil "corporate greed" truly is.

@kingofhearts9020

6 ай бұрын

@@thrashingputz5163which title is missing?

I genuinely think THAT moment in Bioshock 1 was the first time 13 or 14 year old me had really thought about what it means to have free will. Made me completely rethink not just what playing a video game means but so many other things I did either because I wanted to or was told do. Great video!

MGS2 was also a hugely eye-opening game for me. That final dialogue blew my mind wide open as I just sat there with my jaw on the ground.. I was furious and I was heartbroken. But in the days that followed, the more I thought about what was said I noticed that real life plays out in a painstakingly similar fashion. Truly one of the greatest videogame endings of ALL time.

@AndSaveAsManyAsYouCan

6 ай бұрын

Don't forget about 80's / 90's cartoons. The ability to kill of Optimus Prime, the leader / father of the autobots (as well as many "father less" children), in theaters (bringing countless children to tears while breaking their hearts) just to make way to introduce and sell more toys / profit (when they could have left him alive) shows how soulless and evil "corporate greed" truly is.

@jkx85

6 ай бұрын

I fully agree. I think it's underrated.

@MrAshar101

5 ай бұрын

I was gonna say MGS2 as well...I was very young it still did leave a lasting impression on me by then and now that I have gotten older I appreciate it even more . A true philosophical masterpiece .

@adamantium4797

4 ай бұрын

Yes metal gear solid 2 sons of liberty has hefty philosophical messages. Great game too

@joset814

4 ай бұрын

agree

Both Nier are very special from a philosophical scope. Replicant/Gestalt deconstructive trope, delivering one of the greatest plot twist dilemmas with their revisited routes. Whereas Automata not only delves around dualism-monism and existencialism, but also explicitly references major philosophers through npcs or bosses. Also the building up till route E is truly peak developmental resourcefulness, in how to convey meaning by gaming’s unique media employment

@TimEasterling

2 ай бұрын

I haven't played the first, but Automata is hands-down my favorite game. The most brilliant aspect of the game for me is the sacrifice you personally can make at the end. Every time I play through that ending, I cry (and I'm not a crier). You just can't help but connect with the "people" in the game. Couple that with the gameplay, the story, and the music (the music is SO amazing), and in my opinion, it's the best game ever made. I would even argue that this game is better than any movie/song/art I've ever experienced. It's just absolutely amazing. [Fanboy rant over]

Xenogears... the first game for Playstation, is probably one of the most philosophical games I have personally played.

@joshuacruz5436

4 ай бұрын

Well, they're constantly re-releasing/making/envisioning Final Fantasy games, they did the Chrono games (plus Radical Dreamers) about a year ago for Steam; I'm holding out, perhaps against hope, that they'll give us Xenogears in some way. Maybe the way it was intended to be released if we're really lucky! What a... just great, great game that is.

Video games and movies helped me learn way more than school

@SantanaBanana47

6 ай бұрын

Never underestimate the value and purpose of art

@MB-ur1bs

6 ай бұрын

Wow, the education system in your country must be really bad then.

@nocturnaljoe9543

6 ай бұрын

@@SantanaBanana47 Be carefull about the arts that you consume, since governments can use them as tools.

@AndSaveAsManyAsYouCan

6 ай бұрын

​@@nocturnaljoe9543governments are the real tool

@truthseek3017

6 ай бұрын

School taught you how to write and read lmao

Death Stranding was a big one for me in this kind of experience. How the ideology of the story is integrated so tight in the gameplay. Your job is to help people, by doing boring, tedious work where you're continously pushed to do more. Everything is either boring or sucks with the few exceptions where kojimas writing is hilarious. To complete the game, you really need to WANT to help the people that the game presents to you. you need to believe that the good you're providing is worth more than the tedious work you're putting in. Add this with the amazingly written story which starts out as meaningless mess of loose threads being tightly knit to an amazing, philosophical conclussion which ask both existential questions and meta questions about how we go about our lives. That message really resonated with me and the ending was a very emotional experience for me.

@wareforcoin5780

6 ай бұрын

I genuinely enjoyed going out into the world, finding packages scattered across the world, collecting them, and returning them to the correct outposts. I did this for _hours,_ lassoing any bad guys, and playing with oil whales. (I loved those whales, I wouldn't fight them, I would just trigger them to spawn and then try to escape.) I had a lot of fun playing the game, and I really liked the story. I wanted to learn more about the world and characters. I liked that game. I like games about being the mailman.

@aliquida7132

6 ай бұрын

That game was oddly addictive. No game in my Steam library comes even close to the number of hours I logged into Death Stranding.

@kirillholt2329

5 ай бұрын

death stranding is pretentious nonsense parading as something unique (it's not).

@velzing22

5 ай бұрын

For me it's hard to be sincere about helping NPC. Somehow I'm always thinking you guys are not real, but I'm spending my precious real time and I should be the one getting something out of it, maybe I am an egoist person or simply not loving gaming that much to be immerse in it's world 😕

@SilortheBlade

5 ай бұрын

My life is very often helping people by doing rather mundane activities. And I want to help people who need it. And yet I didn't have to play a mind numbingly boring game with terrible writing and ridiculous story beats to influence my real life. I was already willing to help people. I tried watching the story of Death Stranding on youtube, but gave up maybe 2/4 of the way through. I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys something, and if you enjoy this game I am really happy for you. But I disagree with your take on it.

Its absolutely INSANE that as you were describing how the Talos Principle makes you feel after playing it, your words reminded me of exactly how I felt after completing Pathologic 2 and then you introduce it as the next entry! My mind was blown 🤯 Great video as always Max!

Outer wilds music transcends the game itself for me. Its like when Jacob Geller said that Disco Elysiums felt like it couldn't exist outside the game, thats how I feel with outer wilds music. A single mention of it and im pulled back, in space, remembering times my hull came apart and I lay drifting through space, slowly dying. Beautiful thing.

@fredriksvard2603

5 ай бұрын

I love disco elysiums soundtrack (and the game). Adeptus mechanicus too, and vanilla wow's.

There's a ton of games you could have covered, and while I would put others up there, I think such a list is also deeply personal. For me, Journey remains one of the strongest games that has changed how I view others. Like, in general with random acts of kindness. Some kind player was extremely patient with helping me play Journey for the first time, and I didn't even know his name until the credits. There was no motivation to do so, no achievement or reward for it, the dude already had a white robe... He just wanted to be kind.

The way that existentialist concepts (authenticity, will to power, eternal recurrence more specifically) are not only utilized narratively but also an integral part of the gameplay makes Dark Souls a very coherent, philosophical experience imo.

I've been playing the megaman zero games lately, and i'm quite surprised about the topics touched. Like, the sense of self, the reasons that lead people to war, how our absolute truth may be a straight up lie. Highly recommend.

@HyperDefective

6 ай бұрын

Those games really get slept on, in that aspect. That entire franchise actually has way more lore than one would expect. It is more than just, 'blue guy jumps and shoots' (or red guy jumps, shoots, and slashes) while cool music plays. And the whole Reploids living among humans thing is a really cool plot point. And the Carbons in the Legends series are really interesting. Unfortunately, between a combination of poor game localizations, plot details locked to instruction manuals, and a lack of English translations for a lot of supporting media (MMX Manga for example), it can be difficult to tell what or why things are happening in most of the games.

@gregm4813

6 ай бұрын

MMZ games are great!

@TheExcarlos

6 ай бұрын

Zero series is the awesome!

@chrissan2044

4 ай бұрын

Which one would you recommend

@gregm4813

4 ай бұрын

@@chrissan2044 Mega Man Zero 3 is usually touted as the series best. Systems and mechanics have been refined, the story is still going strong (unlike 4), and it's "easier" than MMZ1 (still quite a hard game though). I'm personally fond of MMZ2. If you want the whole story, though, you would need to play the games in order. (1 thru 3 have a solid storyline running through them. 4 jumps off the cliff a bit, but it's not awful, and the ending is a solid end to the series). They're tough games, so beware.

Glad to see Pathologic on the list, I loved the original and the remake so much that it got me to finally commit to reading those daunting thousand page works of authors like Dostoevsky and Tolstoy.

@simongritcel613

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, we, here in the countries of former USSR, read this shit at school. 🙃

@Khan-ig5rx

4 ай бұрын

@@simongritcel613 That actually sounds pretty cool. I would have preferred any of the Russians to the Sylvia Plath and Nathaniel Hawthorne they made us read.

@simongritcel613

4 ай бұрын

@@Khan-ig5rx What's wrong with them, if you don't mind me asking?

@Khan-ig5rx

4 ай бұрын

@@simongritcel613 I couldn't stand Hawthorne after The Scarlet Letter. Our teacher kind of crammed that down our throats and told us it was good because of all of the deep symbolism he uses, but I just thought it was a really boring book. Plath is a great writer, but everything she wrote from her poetry to The Bell Jar are some of the bleakest works I've ever read. She was incredibly talented, but it's still kind of sickening reading what was the zenith of her mental illness being put to paper right before she stuck her head in an oven. That stuff messed me up when I was a teenager.

@simongritcel613

4 ай бұрын

@@Khan-ig5rx Funny to read the last passage, Dostoyevsky's art is also super bleak and heavily influenced by his life, which, for reference, wasn't exactly good.

One of the absolute best games I've ever played that is about hope in an impossible situation was Radiant Historia. It's a time-travelling RPG specifically about not just solving the problem of a war between two nations on a small continent, but more so about a world-ending catastrophe called "desertification." The whole game requires the main character "Stock" (or better yet, Stoic) to act as an intermediary when gains the ability to travel back in time to certain checkpoints, keep reliving these moments again and again in attempt to act the same way while knowing what would happen. The whole game is spent with Stock learning to love the people and the world around him... Failing again and again, all while struggling to find the silver lining against his very own uncle who has given into the nihilism and wants the world to burn.

Thank you for including New Vegas in this video. That game saved my life during the toughest time in my life and has moved me and taught me so much. Your videos on it are also really great.

@terrymortal5517

6 ай бұрын

The legion is objectively the best for America

6 ай бұрын

​@@terrymortal5517 I think you're watching a wrong channel, then

@terrymortal5517

6 ай бұрын

@ "a wrong channel" your grammar is impressive. Why am I on the wrong channel? I mean I'm right

@wareforcoin5780

6 ай бұрын

I've been replying New Vegas lately, and I just did the Ultaluxue cannibalism quest, and I did everything in my power to save the son until I got tired of trying to punch my way through the White Glove Society at an unarmed stat of 20, so I just killed the guy instead of helping him. Sometimes the game makes you think, sometimes a game drives you to murder a man because it's easier. My own morality is as broken as everyone else's in the game.

@CyberpunkF

6 ай бұрын

My most difficult choice was end hunger but make plant monsters or hunger but no plant monsters...

Planescape: Torment and KOTOR 2 were both games that I played 10+ years after their release and they still hit me hard. KOTOR2 probably more so, since it completely changed how I looked at both the Star Wars universe, one of my biggest fandoms throughout my life, and aspects of life through the various lessons Kreia gives about belief, conflict, charity, and the meaning of strength. "To believe in an ideal is to be willing to betray it... If you are truly to understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." The idea of intentionally seeking out opposing viewpoints isn't very common these days, as everyone stays in their internet sub-culture echo chambers.

@Malisa1990

6 ай бұрын

Funny to think about how the entirety of SW, even the only good movies aka the original trilogy would be so much more if they approached their morality and philosophy with the same level as Kotor 2. Kotor 2 entirely destroyed my love for majority of SW related things.

@tonyrandall3146

6 ай бұрын

Exactly it was almost the only SW story that lacked childishness @@Malisa1990

@Tasuva

6 ай бұрын

@@Malisa1990 I agree. KOTOR 1 and especially 2 made me become a Star Wars fan because of it's brilliantly written story and it's complex characters. Still hoping to get a movie one day that comes close to it's level of writing.

@josemcgomes

6 ай бұрын

@@Malisa1990 SW films were literally made for youngsters, so it's no wonder they have a simpler point of view. When George Lucas tried to introduce the political manoeuvring in the prequels, people just bitched and moaned, which didn't help either. I'm not necessarily defending it, but it shows a bit of immaturity in the fanbase (not talking about the people in this comment section, of course).

@user-rk2xi7iw9k

6 ай бұрын

both games have the same writer, he also wrote mask of the betrayer which is as good as those games in terms of writing.

max you should check out The house in Fata Morgana. it's a somewhat older visual novel but i think you would really like it. has some truly heart shattering moments and the existential trauma of the characters is extremely well written. plus the music is great

@akkorde

5 ай бұрын

I love you, best VN ever

I liked the Talos Principle, but I'm a bit surprised it made the list over The Witness, which I felt covered similar themes, but in a more subtle and interesting way. Specifically, I think The Witness did a better job of using its game mechanics as a tool for explaining the problem of epistemology in a way that would be literally impossible for any other medium to do, while the Talos Principle used its mechanics more as set-dressing for a theme primarily explored through text. Either way, great list! Thank you for taking a look at games from a philosophical lens!

@thomasnielsen5580

6 ай бұрын

I agree, though I have only played The Witness, and it's one of the greatest games of all time. I have still not completed it 100%, since i refuse to get outside assistance, so I have a late game puzzle that im stuck on.

@Eedorian

6 ай бұрын

Couldn't agree more.

@sulphuric_glue4468

6 ай бұрын

I've never played The Witness but I've seen plenty of footage and to be honest the game feels like it's very far up its own arse most of the time and presents itself as being much more intelligent than it actually is

@Dahras1

6 ай бұрын

@@sulphuric_glue4468 I mean, The Witness does present itself as being intelligent and having ideas, but it does both of those things, so I'm not sure what the criticism is here. In my opinion, The Witness is not the kind of game you can evaluate based on footage alone because it leans on the experience of playing the game and solving the puzzles to the communicate it's themes.

@charlierevord5047

6 ай бұрын

I’d love if Max took this game on. It seems like pretentious nonsense at first glance, but playing it is a different story. The game examines the essence of epiphany, and I still think about it to this day.

very great video max! it's crazy that one of my university professors started a video game psychology class the semester after I graduated this year. I wish I would have had something like that in school. I would write a 10 page essay easily on silent hill. I feel the same way with how I learn and what things I learned from video games, Games have developed my interest in topics more than any amount of time I have spent in school.

When it comes to philosophical games, I'll always suggest Getting Over It with Bennett Foddy. It's incredible how such a simple game can induce so much reflection. Its creator has a post-doctorate on philosophy, so I guess that has to do with it lol

@FlexxibleFree

6 ай бұрын

Though with how ridiculous the challenge level is, on the basic gamer level it reads as dickish trolling

For me it is Pacman. The existential questions are boundless.

I have two degrees in philosophy. FFIX and mgs3 influenced me so so much growing up! They have such depth to them, I still play both from time to time.

@rafal2675

3 ай бұрын

There is a lost Final Fantasy that was called Lost Odyssey i recommend it.

Finally someone that even mention the Xeno games. As a fan of the saga, especially huge fan of the last 3 ones I feel like they aren't talked about as much as they need to because they made me question my entire existence several times 😭❤️

Games that made me more philosophical were: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (ideologies and social engineering), Deus Ex (as told in the video), and Galactic Civilizations (moral choices and alignments). While the last one might not have been the best, I'm surprised no one here actually mentioned SMAC ;)

@dasmysteryman12

5 ай бұрын

I 100% agree with SMAC. The game made me fall in love with philosophy in the first place, and how each quote not only gave philosophical insights into the game's mechanics but also weaved a narrative from them. Incredibly underrated.

@ErikHolten

3 ай бұрын

While others may quote _Utopia_ or _Nicomachean ethics_ from the great philosophers illustrating of that game, I'm still so very fond of this little anonymous insight: I sit in my cubicle, here on the motherworld. When I die, they will put my body in a box and dispose of me in the cold ground. And in all the millions of ages to come, I shall never laugh, or breathe, or twitch again. So won't you run and play with me, here amongst the teeming masses of humanity? The Universe has spared us this moment.

for me, Chrono Trigger is one of that games, even though story isnt super dark, experiencing how world changes through millenia, how our actions ar affecting it and how peoples lives are connected in it, provoked me to thinking of such topics (and also music it self has thatspace-ish dreamy vibe)

So many games on your list are ones that I have loved most deeply. Not even exaggerating when I say playing Planescape:Torment was a transformative moment for me and showed me the value of self-awareness. The moment where the full depths of the relationship between the Nameless One and Dak'kon is revealed still sits with me as both the virtues and pitfalls of faith, and what a life may look like that has moved from an external set of values imposed to an internal set created.

I would like to add Full Metal Daemon Muramasa. It is a story that really delves into that whole idea of a hero and justice. And it ends up reaching some interesting answers while presenting even more questions.

One of the most enjoyable introductions to philosophy was playing Chrono Cross. I was moved to tears in many moments of its story and made me think on topics as identity and our legacy on this life. Videogames are the result of amazing minds who let us (videogamers) see inside of themselves.

Vivi’s plight in Final Fantasy IX is pure existentialism… How do we prove that we exist? His struggle to understand why he has consciousness but all other black mages seemingly do not was a lot to wrap my head around when I was 12 years old. Great video guy 👍

Great list. I might've put Deus a bit higher, but that's it. So good to see the 2 picks at the top land there. They deserve to be there.

Solid video, I'd highly recommend playing the Shin Megami Tensei series, the first game even has you tackling psychological personality tests & throwing some brutal philosophically moral quandries. It's an RPG that has you reasoning, issuing bribes, intimidating, fighting & recruiting demons/angels to your party with some of the most intense story-telling you could imagine in a post-apocalyptic Tokyo. Well worth a delve if you want to be challenged & entertained

Love this list, honorable mentions included. I also love the differing scores you and Arcane give some games in the various philosphy categories. Shows how great it is that we interpret subjects different with this type of art form.

I love how your intro felt exactly like if I was saying it myself. I'm authistic, undiagnosed for my whole life (it's been 2 years at age of 30 I was diagnosed alongside with my then 3 years old son), school felt hard because if I was not interested in something, it was a pain to 'learn'... but when I was passionate about something, I had incredible results. Videogames quickly became a ground of education and asylum for me. My son will probably go through a really similar life, and I'm happy that we'll be there ready and prepared with his dad to help him through it. Thank you for your video, awesome as always.

I'm so glad I got my partner to play Disco Elysium, she's already mentioned to me that it just might be her all time favorite game and I agree with her. Never have I played a game so deep and touching, a almost perfect masterpiece.

@justanotherabdullah.

4 ай бұрын

why almost?

@tappajavittu

4 ай бұрын

@@justanotherabdullah. Because no work of art is perfect.

@justanotherabdullah.

4 ай бұрын

@@tappajavittu oh ohk.I am gonna give this game a try soon.

@tappajavittu

4 ай бұрын

@@justanotherabdullah. You should! I've never experienced anything like Disco Elysium in a game form. It's a very rare 10/10 for me.

@Anotherperson81

3 ай бұрын

It’s on my shelf waiting, just trying to finish something else quickly so I can enjoy it fully

Amazing list and video. The one game I would add is ICO. I know it might not encompass philosophy as you’ve defined it here, but I think it truly has a philosophical view of gaming in and of itself. Like the philosophy of the medium. Ueda’s games all kind of work to do this and I think ICO is the most powerful example

Hey Max ! I love your videos and wanted to say thank you to you and arcane for making this! I’ve been looking for games to make me think and this was exactly what I was looking for!

Hi max, I follow you since a year ago, and never did any comment until now, even when the mgs2 video is my all time KZread video, but today I have the necessary necessities to tell you how much I admirar you and admire and respect your work and way to think and put in all your thought in those videos and especially with this video! God Bless You Max Derrat!

For me, the life changing gaming moment came with Final Fantasy VI. Before that gaming was innocent fun, but seconds after starting the game and hearing that majestic music and seeing those mechs trodding through snowstorm, changed gaming to ultimate form of art in my mind and it has stayed that way to this day.

Always appreciate your takes on the higher brow side of gaming and their ability to enhance our understanding of ourselves and the world we inhabit. I hope you have the works of Kotaro Uchikoshi on your radar. His Zero Escape series covers so much fascinating ground on matters of consciousness and morality (particualry the middle entry Virtue's Last Reward) as well as just being really exciting experimental storytelling that take full advantage of the medium.

Seeing your honorable mentions, I knew this list is going to be good. You earned a like from me.

"Behold, a man!" -Planescape Torment

rock solid list ; imho the Ultima series deserves a spot on the honorable mentions , 4/5/6 were doing things in gaming that even to this day still have not been fully understood/appreciated/replicated , the games were literally lessons in ethics/morality and the nature of philosophy itself [ie why are we here]

This video made me feel such an awe and adoration for video games I couldn't even describe for myself. I feel it all the time, but it is videos like this that reminds me how strong this feeling actually is. Thank you

Began watching this & thinking, "If Planescape Torment isn't on this list--and it ought to be #1--then this person knows nothing of games." Torment was the first game that really made me think. I'll never forget it. (Also, the first one that made me cry for a ostensibly a villian.) I agree with all your choices (not that you need my approval).

(TLDR at bottom) Hey Max I don't know if you will see this, but I wish to thank you for your videos. They have been a fun watch & your Autism series really helped me better understand myself & things I did in the past. I know you love game series which mention or take inspiration from religious concepts and delve into philosophy. So, I think Project Moon's game series (Lobotomy Corporation, Library of Ruina, & Limbus company) might be interesting to do research on. They take concepts from the Jewish Kabbalah, Carl Jung's EGO, among other famous literature & use them in amazing was with their stories, but are kind of blunt about it. However, they are a South Korean videogame development studio, so sometimes translations mess things up, but the world they have made is one of the most interesting worlds I have ever seen. However, I must mention how notorious the Project Moon Games are for their difficulty & how some of their games aren’t for everyone. I mean Lobotomy Corporation is basically keeping track of a bunch of creatures in a lab with each having their own rules. Even players who love the game I'll say it isn't for everyone, but do feel the story being told is one of the best they have ever experience. I mean many players say the story of Library of Ruina is the best they have ever heard/played & has a fascinating character. As a person who tried both Lobotomy Corporation & Library of Ruina they are pretty difficult. Really quick Limbus Company is their 2.5 game in the series and it's a Gacha which was made to help them accrue funds due to them spending more than they thought on Library of Ruina in an effort to make it great, but Limbus Company does delve into parts of the lore of the series. Anyway if you don't want to play such a hard & at times unfair game then I suggest the videos made by Wordsmithvids he did a pretty good job going over the main parts of Lobotomy Corporation & is doing currently doing a series summarizing Library of Ruina. He even has a video summarizing the webcomic WonderLab. He hasn't done a video on Distortion Detective due to it turning into the 3rd game or Leviathan due to the kind of bad translations. Anyway thanks for your amazing video's Max & as a fellow Autistic person, I wish you a great day. TLDR: Thanks you for your video's Max they helped out a lot. Project Moon has made 3 amazing games which I know you would love the story & lore of, but maybe not their harsh gameplay. They take inspiration from Kabbalah, Carl Jung's EGO, & many other literary works to form amazing stories to build a very unique & fascinating world. Many who have played Library of Ruina say it is one of the best stories they have ever heard & has one of the best characters. If you can't or don't want to play them Wordsmithvids has done some excellent video's on the 1st game & is in the middle of making videos for the 2nd game. Anyway thanks for such great content & I wish you a great day from a fellow Autistic.

@maxderrat

6 ай бұрын

Hey man! Thanks so much for alerting me to these games! They sound fascinating and really in my wheelhouse. I have a list of games that I need to get to, and I am putting those games on my list as soon as I send you this message. And by the way, thank you for saying what you did about my autism videos. The most enlightening and joy-filling comments I receive are when people tell me that those autism videos still help them out, many years after I stopped doing them.

@yinyangwriter1377

6 ай бұрын

Thanks for responding, and I'm happy to help. I don't know what else to say other thanks again, and I hope you have a great day

Great list, you've inspired me to give some of the games a haven't played a try. I would add Cyberpunk 2077 to the list, some very thought provoking philosophical themes are explored in that game.

Great video. I'm glad you included SOMA and Pathologic 2, both memorable and often overlooked titles.

This just made my morning. I've started watching with a skeptical expectation of another superficial "ten best" list and got happier with every minute. Really glad so many people share the love for thought provoking games.

Great list and a fantastic video in general. I personally would have mentioned some of the Trails series games specifically Sky 3rd and Azure, Hollow Knight, To the Moon, Armored Core series, Souls series games and Undertale.

Video games, should be celebrated as a true artistic vision of individuals. Hell i was a boy in el salvador with no future, but a racing game place me on the path of engineering.

Max, your channel is an absolute joy. God bless you, Max!

Long before the "internet" as we know it, in 1997, I did a book report on Final Fantasy VI/III on SNES. Got an A+, the level of detail of the story and my ability to artiuclate it after playing it and it being impactful was easy and believable. I also say, and still feel this way in some fashion, Suikoden will teach you life. You know about life when you know about Suikoden.

I've studied Philosophy at university as well & even obtained a bachelor's degree in this domain. I've studied in France (in a town called Strasbourg) from 2010-2013. And tbh, I was very disappointed through that curriculum since all we had to do was reading lots of books, & learning our courses, but when we displayed free-thinking, we were penalised, just as if having a thought that is ours only was a bad thing, & something we should forget or, at least, not display. Once, one of the teachers told me my thinking was from Kant when, at that time, I didn't even read a single line of this philosopher ! And, btw, I've used the neutral language since then, & that too has been misunderstood & badly judged by some teachers...

@mintmaddie3963

6 ай бұрын

that interesting, but I wonder what would you had wanted out of the curriculum apart from learning about philosophers ? I'm from france tbh

@mintmaddie3963

6 ай бұрын

How is it different in your country also ?

@chrysm6842

6 ай бұрын

@@mintmaddie3963 I would have appreciated that curriculum more if we learnt how to think properly by ourselves.

@ruveng.9058

6 ай бұрын

@@chrysm6842 And how could anybody do that? All that university courses can do is point out logical fallacies and give you input from the 2000+ years that philosophers have been thinking about the human experience. You have to do the rest yourself

@chrysm6842

6 ай бұрын

@@mintmaddie3963 I've already said it : I would have apreciated if this curriculum gave me the tools to think for myself, to be able to develop a correct / logical way of thinking. To teach me how to know if a text is logically valid / solid.

Chrono trigger, final fantasy seven, four and life is strange too. I learned the most from games as well.

This was amazing, thanks for this really well put together essay. I've played a few of the games on this list, and i wholeheartedly agree with your analysis of them. Which makes me pretty damn excited to play the ones that i haven't yet.

I remember having this conversation with a buddy years ago and he brought up some study that concluded people who play rpg games, tabletop or otherwise, are better able to make decisions. They tend to have a well established notion of principles and ideals on one hand. They've also simply had more practice making decisions and seeing the outcome, however realistic or not they may be so they place more value on said decisions.

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2 is highly underrated.

@tasosalexiadis7748

5 ай бұрын

And written by the author of Planescape: Torment,

Gotta say I am surprised to not see any Shin Megami Tensei titles make the list, considering the hefty amount of pulling they do from philosophy. But I do think the picks you have are all incredible, and valid choices. (The ones I've played anyhow, but I do intend to check some out now)

@maxderrat

6 ай бұрын

Thanks mate. I actually had a few other people point out that I should have included an SMT game somewhere, and I agree with them. I feel like an idiot for not putting SMT3: Nocturne in my honorable mentions.

@AndSaveAsManyAsYouCan

6 ай бұрын

​@@maxderrat Don't forget about 80's / 90's cartoons. The ability to kill of Optimus Prime, the leader / father of the autobots (as well as many "father less" children), in theaters (bringing countless children to tears while breaking their hearts) just to make way to introduce and sell more toys / profit (when they could have left him alive) shows how soulless and evil "corporate greed" truly is.

Alpha Centauri is a great introduction to different philosophies and ideas. The quotes for the technologies inspired my curiosity and further reading.

Thank for this video, love your content. Keep on keeping on! ❤

The most philosophical videogame is just my daily life man

Let's see if Planescape gets number 1. And it did..

@element1111

6 ай бұрын

spoiler! lol

I really appreciate you talking about video games in relation to ADHD and autism. My mom didn’t tell me I was diagnosed autistic until I was already a man, and it made so much sense. My problem solving skills were ridiculously ahead for my age, and I 100% attribute that to my dad introducing Mario 64 to me when I was 4. It’s literally a game about solving basic platforming puzzles in a 3D space, and I think every young kid should play it.

I love these videos. I'm glad Soma and Deus Ex were on here. I'm going to look at playing a few of these that I haven't tried yet. Thanks for this video, it was fantastic.

Right! I’m gonna require that SOMA appears on this list 🧐

@omicrondelta7327

6 ай бұрын

It does but one of the least philosophical in the list

@maxderrat

6 ай бұрын

If it's any consolation, Arcane thought it should be in the number 2 spot. ;)

Best philosophical game, huh!! it is definitely moba like League of Legends, because it constantly reminds you: “why am I playing this, just to suffer”… nothing can beat that feeling..

This is such a good list full of absolute gems.

The hotline miami 2 intro always go well introducing your videos Great work bro

OUTER WILDS MENTIONED 🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥

For me, it was the game Metal Gear Solid on the original PlayStation that ignited a sense of mystique in me. It was the ending of the game, discussing twelve powerful individuals whose influence even surpassed that of the president, that truly captured my imagination.

Dude, I’m a perennial student with ADHD also. And this list was honestly one of the best I’ve seen on the subject. As someone who has taken way too many philosophy classes, I can honestly say that I’ve learned more about myself in terms of my philosophical perspective, through playing video games, like knights of the old Republic, two precisely because of the character, you mentioned in the intro… Making decisions in mass effect and making my way through various philosophical role-playing games. Disco Elysium included. I would be interested to see what you make of BG3.

I love when yellow man uploads, ty for another awesome vid!

Another honorable mention that didnt make this list I want to add is Final Fantasy 14. The entirety of the Zodiark-Hydaelyn saga's overarching theme is finding meaning for oneself on what makes life worthwhile and finding that answer together, and in doing so becoming the embodiment of hope. The deeper you go into the story, the more a lot of nietsche, buddhism, and concepts like "as above, so below" keep cropping up as the true crux of a lot of problems and villains we encounter.

Little surprised at the lack of Spec Ops: the Line but look through I definitely agree with a lot of these placements.

@maxderrat

6 ай бұрын

Dude, Spec-Ops: the Line is a deeply profound game, but as far as philosophy goes, I wouldn't say that that is its standout element. It's a lovely post-modern deconstruction of modern war games, with insight into the motivations of human atrocity, but those merits are rooted more so in the disciplines of psychology and narrative design, rather than traditional philosophy.

@adanrodriguez9140

6 ай бұрын

@@maxderratI’m also surprised The Forgotten City didn’t make the list as it’s all about moral philosophy and not really much else

I'm glad Disco made the list. Hoping it was number one but I never played Torment. Would highly recommend checking out The Witness since it didn't make the honorable mentions. Its philosophies are bite size easter eggs and collectibles. Maybe don't even play The Witness. Just look into the video and audio logs. Psalm 42 wasn't exactly philosophy, nor was Richard Feynman, but the game is next level -in your mind -stuff. It had me doing puzzles in the real world whenever I saw circle lines. Headlights in the grills of cars, cracks and stains on the sidewalk. Absolutely mental game

The lack of Silent Hill 2 infuriates me. Other than that, great video

I would add Catherine Fullbody, Persona 5 Royal/(probably Persona 4 Golden as well), Cyberpunk 2077, all three Witcher games, Silent Hill 2. Also i would remove everything from your list with exception of of Disco Elysium, Planscape, Pathalogic, New Vegas. The point is that Outer Worlds, Soma, Bioshock are good of course and pretty heavy on philosophy, but in top 10 should be games with much higher degree of Philosophy :) Like yes Deus Ex is good, but Cyberpunk 2077 for example is more philosophical piece of art with more philosophical ideas and variations of interpretations

Checks if Deus Ex is on the list. Deus Ex is on the list. Good. Looks at number one. Planescape Torment. Perfection.

@maxderrat

6 ай бұрын

:insert Michael Fassbender meme here:

Nice touch with the question marks in the time code in the top 10 list, you can go on which ever number you want without spoiling yourself.

now that is quite a unique top 10, much apreciated.

Shin Megami tensei series should be in the honorable mention list as well.

@KrutiliousKroge124

6 ай бұрын

Killer 7 too

@maxderrat

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, I think I might have messed up in regards to SMT3 and not putting that in my honorable mentions. Good call.

SOMA is a masterpiece.

Excellent video! I think it should be named something like the 10 games that had the most philosophical impact on you personally, as this invites distracting debates about whether this is actually the top 10 when there are so many incredible contenders. Regardless, I appreciate someone demonstrating the unique and powerful storytelling properties of video games.

Max I love you man, just as a person, what you do, and stand for, if I can't I'm glad someone is doing it, I'd love to make videos like you, and talk to people, and reach people, reach a wider audience, but unfortunately I can't edit videos to make them like this, and the videos I can make while I do like them, I hardly ever get a chance to make something where I can talk about philosophy, and everything like I would like to at least, and I'm a little afraid to be too controversial just yet, because I want my audience to grow, and if I pose ideas that go against many peoples ideals it may turn them away from my channel, and in turn decrease my view count, but I'm at least very happy you are able to do it, please keep doing it, never stop, the world needs it, it needs you

If you are a fan of Nier Automata/Replicant I would highly looking up Drakengard 1 and 3 since those games are directly connected to Nier.🖤

Also, Soul Sacrifice. You missed Soul Sacrifice. Honestly I do think it could be a candidate for this list.

Thanks for your insight, Max. As a boy, it was mgs 1 & 2 for me. Later in life I had a coin toss moment between philosophy and psychology and am now almost through my psyche degree. I think storytelling through games switched me on too. Have a good 'un!

Excellent list. Expected to see Pathologic and Deus Ex, wasn't disappointed.

Not a bad list but lack of Terranigma kind of devalue it.

One of the best "philosophical" games I can think of is, no joke, Far Cry 3. That game is an essay on the nature of violence and how addictive it can be. It's one of those messages of which its true understanding can only be passed down through direct interaction with the subject matter. Which means it can only be safely shared through videogames.

Great list dude, thanks for sharing. I may try Soma now. I played half of the others, with Outer Wilds and Talos Principle being my favs.

Playing Blood Omen and Soul Reaver as a kid did more than any english and literature class I've ever attended in school.

Fantastic video. The only other game I feel is missing is SIGNALIS.

Torment, New Vegas and Kotor 2. Man lists like these really put into prospective how under-rated and missed Chris Avellone is in games.

Very insightful, thank you. I played MGS 1 when I was about 12 years old and it blew me away. After that I was always craving for something at least similar, which was hard to find, but I also got to play other games like FF IX who were as challenging intellectually. And then all the series you mentioned, Xenosagas, New Vegas, Deus Ex, etc...

“We’re not tools of the government or anyone else. Fighting was the only thing, the only thing I was good at…, but at least I always fought for what I believed in.” Gray Fox MGS 1 and Solid snake MGS 2.

XENOGEARS