How about black vs red frames? Which colour is stiffer?

3 жыл бұрын

Red is faster

@ngchorguan

3 жыл бұрын

Lol perhaps transparent

@polishguywithhardtospellna8227

3 жыл бұрын

@ Which means it's stiffer, which means it smoothes out chatter better, which means it's lighter, which means higher price tag, which means it fades fast too ;-p ;-p

@MrGarycoww

3 жыл бұрын

Blue 🤣🤣

@chapmag6578

3 жыл бұрын

Apparently there is a branch of enquiry around ‘Colour Psychology ‘ that does indeed indicate that red improves perceived performance......

Interesting to read the comments and a few things i didn't mention in the video which are important: Aluminium will likely have larger second moment of area tubes to meet the strength and fatigue requirements (due to having a lower yield and fatigue strength). Thus, the Al bike of equal mass will likely be stiffer due to the second moment of area being higher and having more material volume to play with. I did not address strength or fatigue in the video but its important. For Al frames its normally the driving factor especially near heat affected zones (welds) where the metallurgy changes.

@ccmmrrnn

3 жыл бұрын

I enjoyed the video, but isn't this contradicting the point that marketing around Ti frames is bullshit, as the majority of top comments appear to interpret the video as meaning? In the video you hypothetically compared Al and Ti frames of the same mass and tube shapes, saying they wouldn't noticeably differ in stiffness. But that's not how they're designed so that's not the reality of the differences between the frames on the market. It's up to the frame designer(s) to decide what qualities they will best achieve with the material, and there are different things achievable with different materials; particularly, as you stated, when regarding yield and fatigue strength. So the real point is: A frame isn't inherently 'better' because of the material it's made of, but one can be designed 'better' than another by exploiting the material used, depending on what 'better' means to you.

@PeakTorque

3 жыл бұрын

@@ccmmrrnn you're dead right and thanks for the comment. I had filmed a cut about in reality how the Al frame would be slightly stiffer and have more 'volume' to work with for the same mass, how the tube shapes would able to be larger to increase I, and reduce the fatigue stress. Im kicking myself for not including now, but it was getting to a bit of a 15min monologue. Not my best work, but there we are.

@ccmmrrnn

3 жыл бұрын

@@PeakTorque Appreciate your reply. Note: 'have to' be larger to 'reduce fatigue stress'. Enjoy the clicks from people thinking this is some kind of 'gotcha', which I suspect you intended, given the title.

@fukawitribe

3 жыл бұрын

@@ccmmrrnn I was taking the video in very much the 'like for like' comparison of materials, and dealing with some of the 'magic' material properties that people assign to what the frame is from. You're absolutely right that design can follow material, and that will effect the ride and other characteristics - be that complex shaping with composites, or tube constraints with heavy materials like steel - but think some of the key points made were valid.

@toddeyster7557

3 жыл бұрын

To completely ignore the yield component is quite misleading. Your comparison of many of the factors including the resonant frequency change dramatically when you have a much thicker Al tube at 8KSI vs Ti (3Al-5V) at 79.9KSI or even steel at 36KSI. I do agree with your seat post comment, cheap Al posts act about like bar stock as they are so thick walled, Ti, high end Al or plastic (carbon) all can have a big effect on comfort and perceived ride quality. It would be interesting to see various equivalent bike frames put on a shaker table.

Just came across your channel and loved it. As a mechanical engineer and lifelong bike rider myself, I was more than happy to finally hear someone making the right considerations about the frame materials and geometry. Thank you and keep it up!

@reneharde3459

10 ай бұрын

Ditto

@MrJx4000

8 ай бұрын

The only reason that I ever considered Titanium was for bragging rights, but then I saw the price and said fcuk it.

@SheikRusso

8 ай бұрын

@@MrJx4000 it looks awesome, not gonna lie

You can watch a few videos from Peak Torque and know more about bikes than watching 200 hours of videos from bike reviewers. Much more useful information than the standard approach.

@pahouseholder

3 жыл бұрын

But you need an engineering degree. ;-)

@fuglygolfing

2 жыл бұрын

Bike reviewers: "this bike is perfect for on-road, all-road, gravel, XC, DH, commuting, touring, bikepacking etc"

I have a Ti gravel bike and a Ti hardtail 29er-love them both, bought them because as a retired engineer I just love the corrosion resistance and look of titanium. I also have a carbon road bike which I save for the good weather, my gravel bike with road tyres fits the bill as a winter bike. It’s not a ‘magic’ material, I just happen to like it.

@PeakTorque

3 жыл бұрын

I like the material too and i think I've been infected. Im probably going to buy one at some point 😃

@SprayIgniteBoom

3 жыл бұрын

EXACTLY!!! Glad 2 hear this. Ride what U like b/c U like it. OVERALL fitness is where your BIGGEST speed gains will be had. Adversely ‘older’ isn’t necessarily worse... but style most certainly plays a part in many choices. I am a sucker for polished metals and clear costed cf...🤗😬🥴

@KriKri5980

3 жыл бұрын

Similar for me. I retired my grey carbon bike for the elegant titanium ride. I could not care less about weight or other hard facts.

@Keith19563

3 жыл бұрын

I’m the same, I bought my titanium bike because of its corrosion resistance and it looks nice as well not because of the so called carpet ride quality.

@keithevans5667

3 жыл бұрын

Me too ...Ti is not magic but I do love the material... I do Orthodontics so it's moving dentistry 😉

Enjoyed the science. I love my Ti mountain bike (Jones Spaceframe) and completely agree that the seat post and tires have the greatest influence on ride quality. The durability and maintenance of raw titanium is great, no paint to chip and easy to buff out scratches. Also the sound of rocks or gravel bouncing off the down tube is nicer than aluminum.

I never tried to sell a ti bike on material based ride quality, only durability, repairability, asthtetic, and the lack of corrosion. Thanks for the confirmation.

@stevenr5149

4 күн бұрын

My 30 year old double butted Steel frame is rust free and rides like the first day. My 6 year old Sku $199.00 aluminum bike looks and rides like the first day as well.

All in the ride of the beholder. I own and ride all main bike frames (materials), Ti is my favorite hands down!

@jeffr119

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed, I own steel, Al, CF and Ti. The titanium bike convinced me that it is a superior material. Yes it is marginally heavier than my CF bike, but it handles hard bumps in the road much better. Also titanium is much more durable than any CF bike.

@douglasbaumgartner7174

3 жыл бұрын

@Jeff R I agree, Titanium is a wonderful material for road, gravel, cross and touring bike frames. It's super expensive to build with, and requires absolute precision build quality. But has a great smooth and springy ride. It's not great for high torque frames like full suspension mountain bikes (too much lateral and torsional flex) and aero sprint road bikes (really tough to shape), but otherwise, it's great!

@rcg9573

3 жыл бұрын

Bullshit! 😆

@twillyspanksyourcakes

Жыл бұрын

@@douglasbaumgartner7174 Did you even watch the video?

@twillyspanksyourcakes

Жыл бұрын

What you're saying is it's all in your head? Got it

If I had to guess, it's because the average aluminium bike is much cheaper than the average titanium bike, so it's typically paired with cheaper wheels, cockpit, seatpost, and saddle. There's no point spending £2000 on a titanium frame only to put the same cheap finishing kit on it. Presumably the comfort of high-end wheels and compliant carbon seatposts/bars are often mistakenly attributed to the titanium frame. Plenty of reviewers, vloggers, and bloggers have done enough testing to confirm that tyre and tubes (or lack of tubes) make the lion's share of the difference to ride quality.

Interesting. My impression of modern bikes, including titanium frames, is that wider tires and modern geometry (slacker head tube angles) have made riding more comfortable on more surfaces. After 25 years of hard work, saving and learning what I like and don’t like, I chose a titanium frame partially because of what it meant to me as a trophy but mostly because of the impeccable build quality. As I’ve gotten older, I have less patience for things like noises and quirks and a titanium frame solved a lot of my complaints about mass production bikes. As they say, “to each, his own.”

@aaron___6014

11 ай бұрын

This is all silly. Titanium or rather the frameset has almost nothing to do with this. It's wheels, tires, freehub, drivetrain, cable routing, and 2x vs 1x that matter far more.

@DEAR7340

10 ай бұрын

I live in a region with a hot humid climate. Titanium is the only material that stands up to my sweat. That's enough reason for me. I have owned steel, almunium, and carbon as well. Yes, rinse my bikes after every ride and give them a full wash, weekly.

@larkinkelly3754

7 ай бұрын

Unless you have a poorly sized press fit bottom bracket on your frame or a carbon frame delaminating/ water bottle bosses falling out etc. Carbon has lightweight and supple characteristics that are desirable, but how many mid 90s litespeed ti and steel frames still ride just like their first day vs only 5 year old carbon.

Hi, yes I had a Litespeed Classic (96) in a 57cm,was 1400gm .They do flex around the Bb when you stomp on them,to me they have similar ride qualities to steel but lighter. As you said the best thing about them is corrosion resistance and long fatigue life. Mine was a polished finish,so no paint chip problems,also the surface hardness is very good. This is 3/2.5 ti alloy which is 3% alu & 2.5% vanadium . The Litespeed Ultimate was 6/4 ti alloy ,has more complex shapes and is stiffer.

Now this is a reviewer that listens to the ‘community’! I love that you focus on quality over quantity. Looking forward to more videos to make the coming year easier. :)

I've just bought a Ti bike and I love it! I bought it for a variety of reasons but mostly aesthetics and hopefully durability. Having changed from an Al frame of similar weight it does feel more comfortable but that could be down to several factors such as the Ti bike has dropped seat stays, carbon fibre seat post and it's running 25mm tyres instead of 23's. I can't compare my carbon fibre bike as that's a TT bike and a completely different beast. Of all the bikes I've ridden the Ti one is my favourite though.

@Cortesevasive

2 жыл бұрын

No paint is a win win

I just built up a Ti bike and haven't taken it out yet. Thanks for this, youtube algorithm.

@jackmcandle6955

3 жыл бұрын

Funny how that happens here in the googlsphere

@kubagajda7347

3 жыл бұрын

And now you won't have any fun on it whatsoever :P

@samj1185

3 жыл бұрын

enjoy it. They can have their numbers and their bias. Ti is a smooth ride.

@maxgarely3628

3 жыл бұрын

Don’t worry dude, you’ll love it. Even if it does not live up to the hype (I think it does) you have a sick looking bike, bragging rights, and your bike will last forever.

@thedistance1155

3 жыл бұрын

Wait, you have ti bike? I dont... feel lucky bro

@Peak Torque... Can you talk about Carbon vs Aluminum rims; weight, stiffness, & price?

@MrGarycoww

3 жыл бұрын

I went from custom 32mm dt swiss aluminum rims with dt swiss aero comp spokes on hope rs4 straight pull hubs to 60mm prime black edition carbon rims with the same spokes and hubs and the ride quality is better , but I did change from gp4000 28mm to 26mm specialized turbo tires as well so maybe they were making a huge difference. 😃,overall though they feel way smoother than the aluminum rims.

@coldforgedcowboy

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrGarycoww ... Bianchi has been using vibration damping technology in their frames for a while now. Have a look. kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZIug1LeSmrKofso.html

@MrGarycoww

3 жыл бұрын

@@coldforgedcowboy a bit like specialized zertz ?

@coldforgedcowboy

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrGarycoww ... Similar but different in that with the Contervail system the vibration damping is built into the adhesive and a layer of specail composite, so it would be ideal for composite rims. www.compositesworld.com/articles/countervail-vibration-canceling-composite-technology

@mit1978

3 жыл бұрын

Alu rims never more stiffer than true carbon rims, but here talk about more facts...hubs and spokes. Its not enough to have just a good carbon rim.

the best thing to happen to cycling on youtube, peak torque.

@robertp7209

3 жыл бұрын

Hambini my vote is with 😁😁

@Primoz.r

3 жыл бұрын

Hambini is a bit too raw and vulgar, guessing part of it is for the sake of it. This is much more calm and straight to the fact.

@robertp7209

3 жыл бұрын

@@Primoz.r - he’s 5 yrs old, what do you expect 😂🤣😂🤣😁.

@deneystanna2110

3 жыл бұрын

The best review ever

@Megadeth6633

3 жыл бұрын

@@Primoz.r Totally, I mean it's comical but 30 straight minutes of hambini acting like a child is a bit jarring. There is also the fact that he usually reviews faulty frames that people actually send to him because they are faulty in the first place. Nevertheless he's a good educator when he's serious

Agreed, the Ti ride is no better than a steel bike. Glad you corrected yourself in the pinned comment. No amount of quoting technical terms - can hide that you missed crucial data. The simple fact is that ali frames have to be made stiffer - as they can handle far less flex. Stronger materials like heat treated-steel (e.g. 853) - are usually built to make more comfortable bikes with more flex - as the frame can take that flex repeatedly without failing. Standard cro-mo steel cannot do that. So yes, with young's modulus, you could, in theory, build a bike out of the same types of steel - with all the same wall thickness etc. But the lower grade steel would not be able to take the flex, esp. if it was an mtb with a heavy rider for example. Sorry, but your original video just missed the key points - and hide it in a lot of tech terms that made it sound like you knew what you were talking about. One can feel a quality steel frame flex as put on the power. Frames do flex! Agreed the seatpost often makes the most difference. Esp. a cheap compared to an expensive one. But frames matter too. Over the past three decades, I have built up and ridden many.

What about specific Strength? (not to be confused with Stiffness) Giving the smaller second moment of area of Ti tubing most likely means the maximum distance from the centroid will also be less hence less stress for the same given bending load, combined that with the higher material yield strength of Ti means a Ti tubing will have higher strength and larger deformation at failure compare to one made from Al. Translate this into bike frame design, yes you CAN design a AL and a Ti frame that has the same stiffness, Ti CAN however allow for less stiffness (more compliance/comfort in marketing terms) for a giving strength requirement and that is desirable if comfort is what you want to maximize. Nevertheless, You can of course get a comfortable Al or a harsh Ti frame, other factors are also important.

The design of the bike has more to do with the "feel" of the bike than materials used. Over the past few decades, I have been fortunate in having a wife who has been tolerant of my spending habits regarding bikes. So, I have had road bikes in steel, carbon, aluminum and titanium. I still have carbon and titanium road bikes in the garage. The titanium is still my go to bike for half and full centuries. The design and materials make it efficient and compliant, much more so than a bike of any other material or design. I understand your preoccupation with numbers, but would suggest long test rides are a better measure of bike feel.

My input, I have 2 steel Pegorretti’s, A steel Salsa and a Moots RSL, I have had a carbon tarmac and 2 Aluminum frames, so I feel like I have pretty good experience. If I had to choose just one it would be the Moots hands down! Now don’t get my wrong, as you can see, I love steel bikes, but I look at the Moots as a Swiss Army knife, it does it all well and doesn’t rust! Edit- so I just got a steel gravel bike, it has 38c tires MASSIVE difference, talk about frames all you want but big supple tires rock!

@KeithHeinrich

9 ай бұрын

My thoughts as well. I have a vintage steel fleet, an aluminium framed gravel bike and a vintage carbon bike. Wheels, tires and tire pressure make the most difference to the ride quality. I use hand built wheels as well which also improves ride quality and performance. I can say this without any doubt. So while frame material is part of the ride quality equation it’s not the whole answer.

@finarollerz

9 ай бұрын

@@KeithHeinrich recent Ronnie romance Doc says it’s every except the frame. 😂

@KeithHeinrich

9 ай бұрын

@@finarollerz Frame is a starting point. If it was the only thing folks would never upgrade wheels, tires handlebar tape and so on. Case study, hi mod carbon frame on 23mm tires and mavic wheels vs 26mm rubber at lower pressure on wider custom wheels is a night and day experience in ride quality and handling. Same frame. And same deal across all the bikes. Frame is a starting point. Much better with better wheels and tires.

But how will bike companies massively inflate the value of their products if they sell bikes based on facts and not bullshit from marketing from the cycling "journalist" industry

@TheNeelonRokk

3 жыл бұрын

They almost all did by 10-15% "due to covid-related supply issues", which is layman's terms basically is translated from, more demand minus the same stock sizes equals more profit for the same effort.

@luis.sordi.

3 жыл бұрын

I think most industries market their products with bulshit that most people don't understand. And bicycle prices also have a big problem caused by how the sport is funded, basically from sponsorship, making their marketing budget heavy on the price of the products. And it is such an old model that I question their ROI and if that money should be better spend otherwise.

@tewaewae

3 жыл бұрын

Hasn't stopped car, coffee, food, fashion and 100 other product line manufacturers Why would you expect bikes to be different?

@coldforgedcowboy

3 жыл бұрын

They will inflate the value of their products by changing the wheel size and destandardizing all the parts so you can't get replacements parts after five years.

@cccpkingu

3 жыл бұрын

By working hard and not outsourcing their stuff.

Thank you. I'm a relatively novice when it comes to biking but I have lots of experience with metals and structures. I never understood it when they said a ti bike is stiff yet somehow more forgiving. I still want a ti bike. Mostly for longevity.

Quality. Very interesting. Brings back all my first year Uni physics

I really appreciated having all the common opinions about frame materials brought together and analyzed, saved me a lot of thinking in an area I know little about, but hear about often.

I ride many (6) different Titanium Bikes and there are huge differences in the ride feel between them. A REWEL with a seat stay shaped like a Pinarello feels like a fully. A MORATI with a straight seat stay rides like a KLEIN. The main reason why I have Titanium Bikes is not because of the magic carpet BS but the durability and the look.

@jev2867

3 жыл бұрын

There are certain characteristics for each materials, to where they are built differently. Strength to weight ratio, weight/thickness to stiffness ratio etc.. Crunching numbers to justify the "The same" argument is kind of asinine. I mean in that sense anything can be made equal.

@RedmercyGG

3 жыл бұрын

But the look depends on the paint...

@aaronnorman7907

3 жыл бұрын

@@RedmercyGG The look is in the lack of paint.

@antonhelsgaun

3 жыл бұрын

@@aaronnorman7907 and the thin tubes

@I3ene1

3 жыл бұрын

Do you own a rewe? You think the seatstays are that good? Im planning my TI custom bike atm and im looking for the most comfortable seatstay design

Great piece. Despite it not being the "wonder material" overall, it does have one other advantage not mentioned. It's extremely durable, i.e., resistant to dings and dents. Aluminum and carbon are susceptible to dents and chips respectively. It's certainly a lifetime material where as aluminum and carbon are not. But now I have more to chew on in my search for a new gravel bike. So, thanks for making my choice more difficult! 😉 👍

@PRH123

9 ай бұрын

There’s myths out there about aluminum as well. The assumption that stress accumulates over time leading to inevitable breakage for example. Doesn’t seem to be the case with bicycles. I’ve had 3 aluminum bikes for 15+ years, no chips, no dents, all signs are they will last as long as steel…

@michaelupchurch3779

7 ай бұрын

Carbon frames become flexier with time compared to Ti steel or aluminum so I would say Ti is superior if you look at companies like Moots there superior

If you look at stress strain curves of both materials you can see that a titanium frame can be designed with much more flex than an aluminum one. The aluminium one would be prone to failure at flex levels that can be reached with titanium (for example in the rear triangle, fork, seatpost - for comfort) The video clearly shows that you are not a fan of flexible frames but prefer stiff ones.

HSS actually has a specific modulus similar to aluminium and titanium. Al frames can be built lighter than steel. The torsional stiffness of a bike frame is basically determined by the GJ of the top tube and down tube, and this is mostly controlled tube diameter. For the same amount of material, the linear static theory tells you it is better to distribute it on as large a diameter as possible. This breaks down at the point where the tube is so thin that it is at risk of shell buckling, and this tends to happen at a fixed thickness/diameter ratio. Aluminium is much less dense than steel, which means a given sectional density can produce much larger diameter tubes before buckling. For the same reason, optimally designed Al frames will be lighter than Ti frames. I work in composite structures, and there are some specific applications where balsa wood or styrofoam produce stiffer and stronger structures than carbon fiber at the same weight, for basically the same reason.

@ryans6280

8 ай бұрын

This is really interesting! Do you have any example of the Styrofoam/balsa structures I'm curious.

Since the main bulk of the comfort or compliance comes from the seatpost, how would a Ti-Carbon bike feel then? Ex: Bastion or Curve Belgie Air. They're marketed as combining the best of both worlds but would we just be getting a Ti bike that has it's compliance ruined by the stiff carbon that's been added into the mix? What do you think?

@valiantabello

3 жыл бұрын

This is a brilliant question

I think most people mix up the great feeling of their first custom bike (if their builder was good) with it being a magical property of Ti. All down to the quality of the builder and their understanding your needs, or not for mass produced bikes.

Youngs modulus and corrosion resistance were the two specifics I was wondering about. Thank you for the in-depth answer that so many skip over! I love my 20 year old Aluminum Specialized Allez but it seems like no one has found a good way to make paint to stick to Aluminum for more than 20 years or so.

Great work on this. Nice to see someone finally trying to debunk some of the misconceptions that I have to try and educate people on daily. As someone who has designed frames in all of the materials you mention, but who works mainly in steel now I think the one area that is ripe for further content is the impact of tube size, shape and butt profile. One of the reasons Titanium has never really lived up to its promise is the difficulty of tube manipulation, unlike in steel or Aluminium. Id be interested to hear your thoughts. Maybe we should build two steel frames of the same mass but with different tube profiles and see if you can tell the difference...

@truthseeker8483

2 жыл бұрын

3D printing Titanium will revolutionize frame manufacture

@veloatelier6122

2 жыл бұрын

@@truthseeker8483 already has. Check out our bastion frames and components on our website.

You are absolutely right, my 1998 Litespeed Vortex at 1280 grams of relatively small diameter tubing and 1" fork steerer had the magical flying carpet legendary Titanium ride, my 2019 custom titanium frame at 1650 grams with big tapered head tube (1 1/8 - 1 1/2), and a 42mm downtube feels a lot like a stiff modern carbon frame that weighs 1000 grams...

@ralphc1405

10 ай бұрын

I remember Ti being the metal of the future back in the 90s for road bike frames. What ever happened to that???

Thanks for that! I recently destroyed my 1550g Al gravel frame, and replaced it with a 2050g Ti frame, swapping all the components over (group/wheels/bars/etc), and noticed that the Ti frame has less "chatter" from the trail. If I'm understanding your comments correctly, this is likely to be an artifact of the increased weight of the frame (and potentially a different seatpost)? Cheers

Hi it's a great video thank you. Currently I am having an Aluminum Bianchi Freccia Celeste road bike with Shimano 105 group set and rim brakes. It's performing well and I like it. however I am looking for a Ti for my second bike, I just need to know from you does TI material 3AL/2.5V durability in the long run is the same as 6Al/4V? Or having a 3AL/2.5V bike with only the top tube made from 6AL/4V ok? And finally the Litespeed bike that you showed in the video, the seat stays does not have a bridge on top (similar to a rim brake bike where the rim brake caliper is fixed this is the are I am referring to as a bridge) by not having this bridge on the seat stays will there be additional stress to the seat stays? Appreciate your answers very much in this regard.

Back in the day, Columbus tubing had tiers of available tubes for frame building. Lots of racing bikes were built using SL, SLX. Because I'm a small rider, I would have preferred the SL which was lighter than SLX which was considered really stiff. And it was generally found in bigger frames.

Just found this video. I have my first ever titanium bike. I love the ride, sure, but as a mechanical engineer, I was pretty skeptical about the "magic ride" claims. And a year after owning it, no there is no magic ride. However, it made a lot of sense for a mountain bike due to the fact that I don't have to worry about paint chipping and rust. I think people convince themselves that titanium has a superior ride due to the high price, the rarity, the name, and the fact that there is a popular song named after it. As far as ride quality, I find that I still prefer high-end steel. I think it's because of the ultra-thin tubing walls, which make for a nice resonance and sound that I don't get from other materials.

If you want a source to look at ride comfort you should look into the research in titanium vs aluminum wheel chairs since it's a medical device they did serious research on it. The findings where that aluminum is a better vibration dampening material but the difference is only noticable in instrumentation. When they tested it with people there was no difference in feel. However separating the parts with polymer materials acted as vibration dampening for the chair. I suspect the better feel is from the fact that usually titanium bikes use more carbon parts than aluminum bikes and the carbon is responsible for the vibration dampening.

@playmoreguitar5393

2 жыл бұрын

I had an aluminium fork on my steel gravel bike and recently changed to a Enve Carbon fork and I find the carbon fork much hasher. Go figure. Nothing else changed so I don't know what to believe

I would love to see a follow up on the impact of hydroforming aluminium when both main factors are constant, in terms of stiffness in certain axes vs. compliance in others

@timocallaghan4408

3 жыл бұрын

@Newtube k

@timocallaghan4408

3 жыл бұрын

@Newtube I simply want to learn about it but thanks

The Vittoria Corsa Control tyres can make any bike feel good

@nickjohnson710

3 жыл бұрын

Your right ,I got some in 25mm but they measure 27mm .....they feel great, comfortable, and feel super fast 👌I had veloflex corsa in 25mm before which were not good at all!!! Lots of punctures, the ride quality was awful even with latex inner tubes in 🤷‍♂️ they have improved there tyre line up now

Last year I purchased a litespeed gravel. The main reason I chose the gravel was so I could have multiple wheel and tire combos. The biggest difference in ride quality comes from the tires. 25mm tire rides like a log wagon and the 47 mm tires feel much better. The 47mm tires are not as fast but at 60lpsi the ride quality is much more forgiving , traction is confidence inspiring and it looks awesome.

That's all fine but I still put more miles on the Ti than my steel or carbon. How many trashing on Ti actually have real time on one?

Hi Peak Torque, Is there perhaps something in the material damping properties? On a bike/component without conventional suspension the only damping comes from the material itself. This damping is of course different between steel/ti/al/CFRP. I haven’t looked into it too much myself regarding bicycle frames, but it has effected previous work of mine. I think you’re right the “spring” part of our mass spring damper system does dominate, but I don’t think you can ignore the discussion for damping.

@ben9412

3 жыл бұрын

In addition: love your work, I’m not saying you’re right/wrong about ti bikes (I’ve never ridden one), just interested in opening further engineering discussion!

As I have gotten older I have come to desire comfort above other things on a bike. It's definitely true that the industries recent shift toward fatter tyres has had a far more significant impact on general ride comfort than frame materials.

Seems that a carbon fork provides a huge contribution to “comfort”.

I'd love to see a similar one about steel. Is vibration absorption or springyness real, or just marketer's bs?

@TheGotoGeek

3 жыл бұрын

It’s BS. The big advantage of steel is that it’s easier to work with, especially for a small custom builder, so you can get exactly the geometry you want. It’s also much better for custom forks. If you’re like me and enjoy riding low-trail frames, steel is the only way you can get that. Ok, steel fork with a Ti frame would work, too. But other than that, damping is the same for both (nonexistent) and springiness is essentially the same.

@rcg9573

3 жыл бұрын

BS that has been spoon fed to consumers of boutique steel and ti frames for decades, and has now trickled down to the non boutique steel frame consumers. Same BS as the “springy smooth” titanium ride BS claims. Reminds me of all the goofballs, who claimed their silly priced Pegoretti Marcellos and Big Leg Emma's were smooth riding because they were made of steel. Some of the stiffest and most bone jarring frames ever made. Boonen rode one to his TDF Green jersey win in 2007, and even he conceded it was an incredibly harsh riding frame, but great for the sprints. People easily programmed by marketing BS will regurgitate any nonsense spoon fed to them that makes them feel warm and fuzzy about their purchase decisions. Happens in almost every industry. 😆

@MrScrofulous

Жыл бұрын

The steel bike will likely (though not necessarily) have more mass and more comfortable geometry.

I'm slightly confused with the point that you'd need a thicker Ti frame for large riders if the two triangles are the most rigid part already (if I understand your point correctly). Therefore, should it be always down to the characteristics of the wheels, tires and seatpost as you said? Econ major here any additional clarification would help :-D Thanks much!

Late to this conversation. That being said, can't you make a more compliant Ti bike because you can run a thinner walled tube compared to aluminum amalgam which mandates a minimum thickness. Ergo a "lighter" bike is more plausible in Ti (aka more compliant/less stiff).

Hey I see you're good at FEM analysis, could you do a vibration/modal analysis of different frame types ie dropped/ normal stays and different materials ie alu and Ti thatd maybe help dispell some of the myths around material and show that it is more dependent on geometry/tubing

@PeakTorque

3 жыл бұрын

Not a bad idea that. Got to find the time!

@9psi

3 жыл бұрын

Add curved stays and floating stays to the mix

@mff513

3 жыл бұрын

@@PeakTorque yeah its fairly time intensive, I've thankfully already got a frame designed using standard round tubing with no butting and standard seat stays made from steel on ABAQUS. I would need to change the materials and design a dropped seat stay version and run simualtions for each iteration. I could post the results after I've finished exams and had the time to do it

@philso7872

3 жыл бұрын

@@PeakTorque what calculator app are you using on your smartphone? Thanks for posting a video with some real engineering justifications vs pseudoscience and buzzwords.

I'm wondering what seatpost you have on the litespeed in the video. It looks like it might have a bit of flex

@chesterthomas5093

2 жыл бұрын

Any seatpost would have flex with that length

I might have missed it, but there was no mention of galvanic corrosion. Aluminum and steel make for good anodes when used as fasteners for Ti. I heard that carbon fiber is too but I'm not certain. I have two Ti bikes. I live in fear and have brass paste and grease on everything to help defeat the corrosion.

@PeakTorque

3 жыл бұрын

There was mention of anti corrosion merits

What applies to All frame materials is the tube diameter and shape. That effects stiffness more than even the materials.

My mountain bike and road bike are Ti, for the simple reason that I wanted a "lifetime" frame (basically I wanted it to be the last frame I ever bought etc...). I'm 99% sure that I actually hadn't given thought to stiffness or ride quality. As a Gen X'er, I just think Ti was that bad ass super alloy that was part of the space race. Growing up during the middle of the cold war, the X-15 and SR-71 was mind blowing, as such Ti was just that cool exotic material. I just bought Ti cause it just looked cool and it was the material that made amazing things happen when I was a kid. IMHO, if someone is obsessed with performance figures and wants the latest and greatest, they should just by the latest and greatest Al frame every other year (or a carbon frame if you've got deep pockets).

@the_minimalistic_adventure

2 жыл бұрын

This is a late comment, but this is my exact thoughts on titanium frames. A good quality Ti frame can definitely be a lifetime ride, which is why I just spent $7k on Pilot Cycles Scram Pinion bike. It’s a lot of money, but it should last me my entire life! I’m not too stressed about ride quality, I just wanted that titanium “look” and durability.

@pierrex3226

Жыл бұрын

Chinese carbon got cheap.

@username8644

Жыл бұрын

Carbon frames to me are not durable at all. I think Al frames are still pretty damn durable. I still ride a Caad7 from 2003 that has a LOT of miles on it and it still works great, shows no sign of wear (has a dent on the main tube from a crash, which would have meant the end of the frame if it was carbon). That was my grandfather's bike, my bike is a 2018 specialized allez sprint comp because it was by far the best value bike on the market at the time. I expect it to last a really long time, even though it's an Al frame. Titanium is ideal, I agree, but way out of budget. I don't understand why people think Al doesn't last long, it easily can last 20-30 years.

What are the pros and cons of stainless steel frames? Thanks for the excellent video.

@2WheelsGood.01

3 жыл бұрын

They look cool polished, they don't corrode and can be easily recycled, that's about it. Like he says, the material doesn't matter too much, it's the shape of the tubes and bike geometry.

What about tube diameter? Tubes of the same mass but of different diameters will flex differently. Right? And if stronger materials can be have thinner walls, can you not use those variables (diameter/wall thickness/material strength) to give different ride characteristics?

Thanks for doing this video. To me the construction of the fork and it's inherent flex and and the tire sizes and pressures used make the most difference, especially when when a long and flexible seat post is not part of the equation. One can see fork and tire flex when riding. I have high end carbon, titanium, aluminum and steel road bikes made from 1971 to 2008. The material makes almost zero difference to the ride quality for me, but what is noticeable is the sound the bikes have when hitting bumps. Let's face it, brands have to sell new bikes and they have come up with marketing "facts" to sell them. For me, my go to everyday bike is a 1994 Litespeed, as the durability of it the best and there is no paint to scratch or corrosion to worry about and I still do PR's on it.

Regarding “feel”, same tone, nylon and steel strings sound very different. Isn’t there a similar analogy with bikes?

@philipk4475

3 жыл бұрын

A bike is not an instrument in that in a bike resonance, vibration, and harmonics are designed to be damped and suppressed. In an instrument these are exactly the things we look for. The reason why different strings sound different, and why different instruments sound different even when playing the same note, it because of the different mixture of overtones and other non-linearities and resonances in the Instrument.

after watching this video and riding with a clubmate who rides a Ti bike in the group ride me: im about to end this mans whole career

@twillyspanksyourcakes

Жыл бұрын

Any update? 😂

will double butted bike be more stiffer than a single butted aluminum one. I was confused between buying a giant contend ar1/emonda alr5/scott speedster 10/caad 13 105. can you please suggest. The contend is a single butted frame and the others are double butted but other wise it looks good spec wise. I don't worry about the weight my concern is stiffness.

@lunam7249

4 ай бұрын

a pipe will expirience more forces at the ends, so the goal is to make the ends thicker and middle thinner = single butted, double is better , triple is more better..

I've ridden titanium MTB frame for 25 years now, I've ridden over 100 thousand miles on it, it's as good as the day it was made, that's what titanium is for, a also have a Ritchey p29er, the titanium definitely has a softer rear end, another consideration in MTB frames. Great video

and steel: 210 /7.9 = 26.6 - so light steel frames are flexy as hell or thin as paper but not durable for big riders.

@adamholcombe8847

3 жыл бұрын

I was going to ask this, thanks! I've got an All-city steel race bike, but she ain't light! The extra 350G over my super light Ritchey steel frame definitely makes it feel stiffer. I wonder how it would compare to say a CAAD13?

@TheGotoGeek

3 жыл бұрын

The big advantage of steel is that it’s cheaper.

@Max__apex

3 жыл бұрын

Wrong .... steel has higher fatigue limit so the flex does not weaken the metal like would happens in Aluminium which would eventually fail due to the flex over the years

@arminhess1512

3 жыл бұрын

@@Max__apex read my answer: if you are big and heavy, a light steel frame is not stiff enough! If it does not break it will flex (for years and decades).

@5:35 but the difference in dynamic damping b/w nylon vs metal guitar string tuned to the same pitch is measurable and audible - they dampen the input energy differently

@rcg9573

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, and titanium alloys have a lower frequency loss factor versus aluminum alloys which is why ti is an inferior vibration dampener versus aluminum. This has been proven in numerous laboratory tests. This is why high end audio component manufacturers like Dynever, McIntosh, etc.... use aluminum alloys to dampen unwanted component generated and environmental vibrations, not titanium. They are not using the aluminum to save money. They are using it because it has the metallurgical trait of being a superior vibration dampener versus other alloys including titanium based alloys. That’s why it’s always a good laugh to listen to the “my ti ride dampens the high frequency vibrations so well” bullshit claims. At least they provide some good comedic relief with their BS ti vibration claims, and that does serve a purpose. 😆

@kovie9162

6 ай бұрын

@@rcg9573 People say that Ti dampens vibrations better but what they really mean is that it modulates and transmits vibrations in a more pleasant manner than aluminum. You're still going to feel the vibrations. They're just going be smoother and more pleasant than with aluminum. It's like hard vs soft rubber bushings on a car's suspension contact points. The former will be harsh while the latter not, but both will transmit road vibrations to the passengers. It's not the degree of damping but the type.

I like the springy side-to-side flex at the BB. Makes climbing hurt my joints (e.g. knees) less, and makes my heart the limiter rather than the body. The frame gives, instead of my joints, and that flex is returned to the drivetrain as propulsion (see GCN "are you faster on a stiffer bike" vid) during my dead stroke. That's the smoothness I feel. Feels like steel tubing consistently gets the just-right amount of flex that I've grown accustomed to.

@seanmccuen6970

Жыл бұрын

there's no propulsion from the frame flex. but if you like the softness, it's all good.

I wonder why we're not seeing something like the Cannondale Kingpin "suspension" done in titanium. The Kingpin is carbon and will probably shorten the lifetime of your frame but with Ti's fatigue-free flexiness or should be possible to get this both smooth and durable, right?

As a bike manufacturer, I couldn't agree more with this video. Very well said, sir.

@carpediemarts705

5 ай бұрын

Who do you build for?

You can probably make that frame bit more comfy buy having curved seat stays instead of straight so you can let the chainstay flex more, plus curved front forks instead of straight.

@randalbladel2817

9 ай бұрын

Given the same steering tube angle and relative position of the axle to the crown, a straight blade fork can be made to flex as much as a fork with curved blades. the flex will be more up at the crown itself, and the force from the road bump through the wheel axle to the fork will have a longer lever arm to flex the larger section crown, while in curved blade forks the flex will occurs more at the lower end of the fork, where there is less cross sectional area but also much less of a lever arm. Don’t get me wrong; I prefer the aesthetics of a curved bladed fork, especially a steel one with a lugged crown, but that’s because I’m an old retro-grouch.

Having watched a number of club mates and friends buy Ti bikes and it's usually in their later (and post-racing) years. I've noticed a trend, that the Ti bikes tend to be more comfort oriented (longer stays, longer exposed seatpost, larger tires). They ride for a while and expound on how comfortable the Ti bike is... buddy it's not the frame, it's the 32c tires.

@MegaXtc11

3 жыл бұрын

My Lynskey is comfortable riding either with 25 or 28c, than can't be said regarding an aluminum frame

So, where does steel fit into this please? I like my trusty OnOne Ti hard tail 456 MTB which was not built to be light, but instead to be strong. And it has always felt better than the steel 456 which I think was only fractionally heavier. Hence my question about steel. Ta!

Was that your American voice at the end? If so it’s spot on 😂😂😂

just as I'm about to argue, you throw a note on the screen. 😂

The same weight Al Bike would havr thicker tubes. Wouldnt that make "tube ovalising" eigenmodes higher frequency? Could this be relevant? The seatpost and stearertube, both are canted/"suported by angling" in the (thus ovalised loaded as far as I can tell) seat/headtube. Just a thought.

You need to be clear what you are comparing when you say titanium is not less stiff than an alternative. The comparison is often between ‘typical’ titanium and ‘typical’ carbon. In this case it seems that the extra weight of the titanium is less than needed to compensate for the lower stiffness of titanium vs carbon. So in my typical example, the titanium is a bit heavier, a bit more flexible than the carbon. The other factor is the shape of the ‘tubes’. The carbon has a massive bottom bracket shell compared with the titanium, for example. I’m almost certain that the titanium bottom bracket construction has more lateral flex than the carbon. So in my case the titanium feels more flexible, smoother, less efficient, more comfortable, heavier than the (lighter) carbon framed bike. I’m obviously not comparing equal weight aluminium and titanium bikes. If I wasn’t looking for maximum speed and efficiency I’d prefer the titanium, particularly for a long endurance ride where comfort plays a bigger role.

Nice video, I would question whether the mass of aluminium frames is defined not by a desired stiffness but by a max stress for x many fatigue cycles. This would therefore force aluminium frames to be a certain stiffness because they need the material for strength. In this situation because of the improved fatigue life of titanium you would therefore be able to create a less stiff frame, providing the "magic" ride quality. This less stiff frame should be lower mass, but because of the standardised component sizes, threads and other fixed volume geometry both frames end up being a similar mass.

@PeakTorque

3 жыл бұрын

Yes you're right and Aluminium will likely have larger second moment of area tubes to meet the strength and fatigue requirements (due to having a lower yield and fatigue strength). Thus the Al bike will likely be stiffer due to the second moment of area. I did not address strength in this video.

@Swoonorama

3 жыл бұрын

@@PeakTorque I think that this would make yet another great follow up video!

@fuglygolfing

2 жыл бұрын

Also, in MTB applications, impact toughness may become a consideration. I have only ever seen 'soft-tail' MTBs in Carbon and Ti where the seat stay has built in compliance. Totally agree though, all this BS about Ti being a wonder material is just marketing now, especially with the recent influx of fairly cheap Ti frames

I slipped on ice and slid 10m down the tarmac on my Ti bike. When I got home I sanded out the scuff with 2000 grit paper and it was back to new. Can you do that with carbon or Al?

@mtnbikerva1

3 жыл бұрын

It is crap that he does not talk about how tough Ti is. Aluminum is easy to rub it away like putting 2 bikes in a vehicle and having them rub the aluminum off each other. Also Ti will not dent, other than putting it in a purposeful destruction machine. My Ti Litespeed Vortex was hit accidentally by a knuckle head using a hammer very hard. I can guarantee a aluminum frame would have been dented or a hole put in it! Carbon is good but not perfect either.

When I raced mountain bike in Alaska in the 90s, one of the strongest road riders around was a cross country skier who only raced road in the summer as off season training and he used to crush everyone on an ancient 60s bike with cotter pin cranks. It was a hunk of junk, but the motor was faster than everyone else’s. Todd Montalbo was his name (I feel like I should be using the voice of the tackle shop owner in the Simpsons that told tall tales about Homer Simpson catching General Sherman, the biggest fish in the lake).

Excellent no nonsense video. Straight to the point, factual. The sad thing is, yeah, Ti and Al are roughly the same. But so is steel. And Allite's Supermagnesium is just below that (~24). So no magic bullet. Unless... Be!

@PeakTorque

3 жыл бұрын

AlBeMet bikes....one day!

@Primoz.r

3 жыл бұрын

Sadly it looks to be quite toxic as well, though not as much as straight beryllium...

This is a huge win for the “steel is real” guys, amirite

@danielbum912

3 жыл бұрын

Speaking of which I got curious and 210 GPa / 8 g/cm^3 sure enough is 26.something again.

@samj1185

3 жыл бұрын

My Ti rides easy smoother than my steel but those are a small sample.

@adamholcombe8847

3 жыл бұрын

Its more like "steel is really the same as titanium but cheaper"

@coldforgedcowboy

3 жыл бұрын

Of all the frame materials to build a frame from steel is the worst because it rusts and work hardens.

@samj1185

3 жыл бұрын

@@adamholcombe8847 except for being generally heavier and prone to corrosion, sure, I guess

You’re exactly right that the impact of frames and frame material on ride quality often is overstated. Your choice of wheels/tires, fork, and seat post/saddle likely will have as much or more of an impact on ride quality. That said, titanium is very light and very strong, both of which are good qualities to have in a bike frame.

@g0yit0

2 жыл бұрын

por supuesto que las ruedas y la tija tendran una funcion mas importante en la conduccion!

@truthseeker8483

2 жыл бұрын

@@g0yit0 Keh?

@TheDazzler420

2 жыл бұрын

Titanium is expensive and difficult to weld and impossible to shape based on production

What about Chromoly?? I guess it’s heavier but more flex as you put more weight? Confort wise it’s the most one? Thx

So a lighter carbon frame is not much stiffer than a titanium/aluminium wich maybe weights 200-300gr more. You can only compare stiffness If the mass/weight is the same. Correct?

the difference in price at the end 😁

Great video, informative and well structured. Audio was also nice and uniform ;-) I do have a thought to share, a question left to answer, though. With Ti having more strength and being the denser material than Al, one would need to construct a frame out of tubes that are either scaled down (in the cross-section, not length ofc) or have thinner walls. (or combination in between, whatever) That way the resulting trusts has about the same strength and mass. But wouldn't those smaller tubes make the frame more flexible/less stiff in bending around the longitudinal as well as the vertical axis?

@Hiasibua

3 жыл бұрын

I hope this is understandable. I am neither a mechanical engineer. Only sat in "Mechanik 1" course, because every student in Germany has to have heard Mechanik 1 at some point! :-) Yeah... Electrical engineering and I quit

@tiagommvs

3 жыл бұрын

If he had mentioned that in the video, he wouldn't be able to make his point. Not very scientific...

32 mm tubeless tyres run at 65 psi, Specialied CG-R seatpost and voila-any frame is super comfy. Having said that, I am soon placing my order for a Mason Aspect Ti. I just love how Ti looks and I do not want to subject my CF road bike to the conditions in winter.

One of the biggest factors in frame comfort is tube diameter! Titanium, and steel to a greater extent - tend to have smaller diameter tubes and allow a springier feel. You don’t need to be an engineer to understand that if you compare a “rod’” against a “tube” of any of these materials, given that they both have the same cross sectional area, that the rod is easier to flex and to bend permanently. Tube shape is another massive factor, take a 12” ruler and you’ll see that it bends easily across its flat cross section but is almost impossible to bend in its vertical plane. When you take a concept to its n’th degree its much easier to comprehend. Imagine making a bike frame from rulers lined up in the vertical plane, its gonna have massive vertical stiffness but impossibly flexy in the lateral plane. I don’t know why you state that two frames of different materials will have a similar stiffness if both materials have similar stiffness to weight ratio, it simply isn’t true. As aluminium alloys have to be stopped from flexing to avoid failure , they have to be oversized in section and that’s what makes them stiff. Skinny steel tubes can bend more without staying bent which makes them ideal for a springy feel. But who wants a bendy frame? who remembers chain rub on the front mech? I do and it was awful - thank god that I now have carbon and di2

The "zingy carbon frame" thing is also marketing BS, with composites you can have whatever you want by changing the fibre orientation, material type, etc.

@ccmmrrnn

3 жыл бұрын

Well...exactly? You're correct that a frame being made of carbon fibre composites doesn't inherently make it 'zingy', but the use of those materials allows a capable engineer to create a stiffer and lighter frame than they might with other materials, i.e. 'zingy'. It's only marketing BS if it's a poorly engineered frame.

@andrewpease3688

3 жыл бұрын

@@ccmmrrnn what I am saying is that there is nothing to stop you designing a nice soft and lightweight carbon frame, a really stiff one or anything in between.

@ccmmrrnn

3 жыл бұрын

@@andrewpease3688 Cool, we agree! Thanks Andrew.

@Slow.Smooth

3 жыл бұрын

its zingy because the cheap alu wheels LOL

I think this is simplyfied way to much. As far as I remember from my engineering studies, I scales with the power of 4 of radius of a tube. Weight scales linearly. (Thats why bikes are made of tubes and not rods) Since risk of crimping puts a limit on wall thickness, aluminium can be used to make a lighter tube of equal stiffness to that of a titanium one. To make a fair comparison I think you need to compare the value of the square root of E divided by density, for each material.

how do i paint a polished alloy bike frame to look TITANIUM COLOR? does anyone know which colors to mix pleaseeeeeeeeeee??? thanks in advance!

Thank you for this enlightening video. At the end you say your frame is too light for your height and weight. Could you explain again which "ratio" is the right one? Maybe it corresponds to the other marketing race at the lightest?

People want to feel unique but part of a group at the same time. People underestimate how many of their choices will be influenced by the predominance of one over the other and the "noise" created by marketing. "Buy titanium. You will be uniquely different !" "Buy carbon. You will be part of the elite" "Buy aluminum. You will be part of the performers that are Savvy with their money and you will be different" The funny thing is that very few people buy a product based on their real needs/use case and their physical attributes/performance level. Generally speaking, as George Carlin said : "people buy things they don't need at a price they can't pay to impress people they don't like."

@VC30577

3 жыл бұрын

What would you buy? I want to be in your group 🤙

@sylvainmichaud2262

3 жыл бұрын

@@VC30577 “I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members.” Groucho Marx

@Amphibax

3 жыл бұрын

I would buy a aluminium bike just because I'm not willing to spend that of money

@chapmag6578

3 жыл бұрын

....and now add your choice of group set for a little more complexity in the decision making .....

@sylvainmichaud2262

3 жыл бұрын

@@Amphibax A Saavy performant cyclist ! 😉👍

What’s the big difference between titanium and other bike frame materials? Other cyclists will admire your titanium bike over any other bike. The drooling factor should not be underestimated 😆😆😏

@churro8130

3 жыл бұрын

He ain't lying. I picked up an old litespeed ultimate with a polished finish for cheap 2 years back and it gets way more comments and interest from bikey people than a mid 90s frame would seem to deserve

@joeblack7469

3 жыл бұрын

Newbie:- is that carbon Me:- No it’s Titanium Newbie:- Ooooh 😳 …… Expert:- Titanium you say? Me:- Yes. Expert:- it’s lovely, how’s it ride?? Me:- It lovely, really smooths out the trail. *quickly deletes KZread history

Nice video, I'm glad youtube recommended to me.. I have a question.. If Ti is marketed as buttery smooth it means it is more compliant? Which means it is less stiff? So then why would you want a stiffer frame? Do people prefer stiffer frame or compliance from Ti? I mean in the marketing terms..

I have a titanium roadie (Lynskey Sportive) and a titanium hardtail (Lynskey Pro29). I even put a titanium fork (Boost Bearclaw), stem, seatpost, and bars on my hardtail. When I'm using the same tires/similar rims, he difference in comfort between my roadie and a cheapo aluminum Fuji is zero or close to it, and if I'm going in a straight line, I'm pretty sure my rigid hardtail feels exactly like a Karate Monkey that costs a third the price. For me, it was a Gen X midlife crisis thing (all the ti frames and anodized components I couldn't afford as a kid), plus a lot less worry about maintaining a finish and dealing with corrosion. But mostly, it's pretty and made out of the same thing as spaceships. :)

I've been waiting for this video from you for the longest time!!! Thank you!!!!!!

Love my 2004 Litespeed Tuscany, as it fits me so well. I understand the Young’s Modulus and shape argument . This is born out by simply replacing the 21 mm tyres with a 25 mm tyres or changing out the wheels.....they make a huge difference to the ride quality on the same frame . Still, we don’t want to get into a digital vs analogue music argument then do we :)

@tobycolin6271

3 жыл бұрын

Tyres, wheel seat post, handle bars all affect the compliance/ comfort of the a bike. The trouble is now disc brakes accept wide tyres so they can be supplied to the “influencers “ in a spec to make the characteristics fit the press release. Modern disc bikes have all the equipment to make them compliant flexing seat posts, carbon one piece bars and shallow wheels. If you pop 60 deep section wheels, 23 mm tyres, alloy post and bars you’ll see how harsh a modern disc frame is.

@garthh4485

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, my 2003 Airborne with 25mm and 2014 Ultegra 6800 was a nice step up from the 03 version, but doesn't hold a candle to the upgrade to my 2020 T-Lab. Unique tube shapes make for a very stiff front triangle, with the rear triangle having that all familiar ti ride.

Top class nerdery there m'boy! Couldn't understand it, but love it. I've a custom made Ti frame - it's fabulous, but you're right, the magic carpet ride comes from 26mm Turbo Cottons with latex tubes, not Ti tubes. Nice Litespeed though.

Enjoyed the video. I am also a larger rider (250+ lbs). I notice the bottom bracket moving laterally quite a bit when I rally push hard on the peddles. I imagine that movement results in a loss of power transfer to the drive train. How power is lost and is there an optimum frame geometry and material for high torque applications? I have measured over 1,000 ft/lbs of torque (Garmin Vector 2) on some of my sprints.

Finally. I hate the bullshit on forums and reviews chundering up the same old shit regarding how magical Ti is.

@rxonmymind8362

3 жыл бұрын

To justify their money spent.

@stevoc123

3 жыл бұрын

@@rxonmymind8362 don’t get me wrong. I have a Ti frame and have had many in the past but they aren’t magic carpets. I agree with you that some people make them out to be special because they’ve spent big money on something and therefore they won’t say they should have saved a bunch by buying Aluminium.

@rcg9573

3 жыл бұрын

Steve Curtis - It’s called placebo effect, and goofballs having to rationalize their silly priced $4k titanium frames. Lots of gullible consumers in any number of product industries can be fed a steady stream of marketing bullshit, and they“ll gladly swallow it and start mindlessly chirping the same drivel that has been spoon fed to them about their “springy, smooth, floats over bumps.... etc” ti and steel rides. There’s no end to the BS. Just gotta laugh at people willing to remove all doubts as to how gullible and easily fooled they are by marketing spin. 😆😆

@stevoc123

3 жыл бұрын

@@rcg9573 I agree. But not sure it’s placebo. I think in general people don’t like to admit something they’ve purchased is’nt as good as expected or it just plain shite. I remember buying a cannondale synapse di2 disc ( bike of the year 🙄 ) it was a an utter pile of crap. It sucked energy faster than crypto mining and was less fun to ride than a cactus plant.

Came for the bikes, stayed for the engineering.

Do they still 'double butt' welded frames these days? Can that stiffen a frame that has typically thinner walled tubes over their average length? Or to put it better, can you save tube weight (by making them thinner) by 'double butting' the ends where the joins are and where the strength is needed?

Better get a purpose-built aluminium frame with specific tubing than a generic Ti one basically? I'm thinking about bikes like the Mason Bokeh for instance, which doesn't have generic tubing.