I’ll never forgot what my Great Grandfather said about Ismay. My grandfather was a soldier in WWII and suffered PTSD the rest of his life. When I was about 9-10 I was telling him about the Titanic (I of course was obsessed) and remarked that Ismay was a coward for not going down with the ship. My Grandfather was taken aback by that and said “you never know what you’ll do when you know you’re about to die.” I never thought of Ismay the same way since. Thank you for posting.

@jskywalker58

3 ай бұрын

let be honest most people probably would have the done the same thing if they were in his position its easier to say you wouldn't when your not in that position

@tenchskate6066

3 ай бұрын

@@jskywalker58 This.

@McLarenMercedes

3 ай бұрын

To OP. Kudos to your great grandfather who taught you something *you should have realized on your own.* Parroting popular opinion is the hallmark of fools and ignoramuses.

@kevinhrankowski734

3 ай бұрын

I think it would have been a waste if he had not taken the empty spot on a boat. It is a toxic idea that men should die simply for the sake of dying. If Ismay had not taken the spot on the boat it would have been a wasted space.

@jazzmodern

3 ай бұрын

Idk of anyone who saw combat let alone liberated a death camp that didn't have a life of symptoms shouting PTSD.... my grandfather could barely discuss it and died a suffering alcoholic. sad that only now society will admit that.

The fact he stayed right before she went under says what needs to be said - if he was worried about saving his own skin he would have been on the first life boat - not the last.

@legioner9

2 ай бұрын

What you say is very debatable. Besides, Ismay did not climb in the last lifeboat anyways.

@SolidAvenger1290

2 ай бұрын

​@@legioner9the problem is that Captain Smith and the officers did not effectively get all the boats full to capacity. Ismay & his fellow colleague only assume that everyone (primary women & children) on deck at that time had already climb board other boats that were not the collapsibles. Ismay wasn't the only factor that played during that disaster and most believed that ships nearby like the Californian would arrive to prevent the rest of remaining people to using the last two boats. If you had the two factors , Ismay's departure vs. The Californian's behavior than most would consider that British & US Martine regulations were a critical factor to how this tragedy unfolded. The decisions were "very human" and if you or others were place in similar circumstances with the flaws of such a system amid the fog of chaos then most would judge you as some people would condemn Ismay.

@legioner9

2 ай бұрын

@@SolidAvenger1290 You are guessing, but have no clue, like I also do not, on what was going on in Ismay's head and heart that night. Literally all the talks, the video included, are all suppositions. The fact that is clear though is that Ismay climbed into a lifeboat, whilst others did not want to climb into a boat and did not. No one can fool people's feelings of disappointment and anger towards this fact that Ismay climbed into a boat, regardless what arguments he/she brings.

@rkk578

2 ай бұрын

​@@SolidAvenger1290 Well...Lightoller wasn't. Murdoch - who was portrayed as a villain in the movie - did.

@megamonster1234

Ай бұрын

@@legioner9 Except multiple testimonies under oath from the actual people who were there saying that they asked him to come on the boat and the fact that there was still room when it launched meant he didn't take anyone else's spot otherwise it would have been full. Had he stayed, the boat would have literally just went without him and there would be one more empty spot. He isn't obligated to die because he's a man and it's obvious death is the only out you're giving him.

I personally agree that the 1997 film showed some mercy in Ismay's 'bad' by correctly depicting him assisting passengers in boarding the boats. He was simply portrayed as a businessman who blindly trusted the invincibility of his mighty ship until he was told 'She is made of iron, and I assure you she can sink'(-one of my favorite lines in the film). His role in the movie probably also represented the general optimism about technical advancement and the future of humanity at that time, as Mike pointed out several times, a dream that was shattered by the Titanic disaster.

@user-no6ip9ih8w

3 ай бұрын

I believe that line was delivered by Andrews, the engineer?

@mnemo7096

3 ай бұрын

@@user-no6ip9ih8wdesigner but yes

@DylRicho

3 ай бұрын

​@@user-no6ip9ih8w Correct.

@sjc4

3 ай бұрын

"she's made of iron sir, i assure you, she can."

@glittery_cucumber

3 ай бұрын

I think what people remember most about him from the movie is 1. pressing for greater speed and 2. cowardly getting on a life boat only meant for women and children. The movie truly didn't do him any favors.

Find it interesting that James Cameron knew all this, and still put it in the film because 'people expected to see it' like sir this was a real person, not just a character

@SparrowJacksonAirsoft

2 ай бұрын

Thinking back to the movie, it does seem that Cameron did try to save the character of Ismay a little bit with some tiny things. For instance, when he told the Captain, imagine getting into port a bit early and push the ship a little faster, he did ad the line "course I leave it up to you and your officers." Yes, he did also say a line after that that almost negates the pervious lines but still, its in there. Also when he got into the life boat, he looked around and say there were no other women and children then climbed in.

@fancyfree8599

2 ай бұрын

Reality rarely makes a good Hollywood movie. I think Cameron’s assassination of the character of Officer Murdoch was very unjust. That man saved many lives and went down with the ship.

@EtwasMartin

2 ай бұрын

The real issue is that people often mistake the movie for fact and not fiction. Yes, it was made with a great sense of detail to the real story but at the end, it is a fictional story with fictional characters.

@ProwlingTiger1

Ай бұрын

​@@fancyfree8599 Cameron tried to justify it by saying that the event in question said more about Hal's character than Murdock's, am sorry but to pin reported but never totally verified stories on an exemplary officer, who launched more lifeboats and saved more lives than any other officer that night- is a low, insulting move, I can picture the conversation that took place between Cameron and his team and imagine that it went something like this: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Cameron:* _"er the film is not tragic enough... we need more..."_ *Random Team Member:* _"oh there's a story about an officer who accepted bribes.. oh and another story about an officer shooting a passenger than then turning gun on himself"_ *Cameron:* _"ooo they are both perfect, love them, they are tragedy within tragedy, they will really pull on the audiences old heartstrings"_ *Random Team Member:* _"yeah but there's no verified 100% proof that these stories are true and no one knows who the supposed officer involved in them was, wouldn't it be better to stick with actual verified history?"_ *Cameron:* _"oh that doesn't matter, we'll still use them as they really speak tragedy"_ *Random Team Member:* _"ok, so shall we just make it some unnamed random officer then?"_ *Cameron:* _"eh, we could but is the audience really going respond to some unknown guy? that's not really going to get them going is it?"_ *Random Team Member:* _"yeah true, so who should it be then?"_ *Cameron:* _" Hmm..._ *light bulb moment*, _I know, we'll make it Murdock"_ *Random Team Member:* _"Murdock??? So you want to use completely unverified stories on a man who diligently saved more lives than any other officer that night? The man whom more than half of titanic survivors owe their very lives to as he had nearly 10 boats launched before the other side had even launched one?"_ *Cameron:* _"Yep, Trust me, Murdock is the perfect one to use"_ *Random Team Member:* _"How do you figure that? Most people view this man as a hero who saved as many lives as he could, an officer who diligently did his duty to the very last moment"_ *Cameron:* _"Exactly, that's why he is perfect for this, its a twist the audience will never see coming, they'll love it and totally understand why we've done it, it makes for great drama"_ *Random Team Member:* _"Right, well we're convinced- we can't see this going wrong at all...lets do it"_ ** -------- *Movie gets released* --------- ** *Team Member:* _"Aww shit, some of the audience is pissed at Murdock's bribe accepting, passenger murdering and then committing suicide scenes.."_ *Cameron:* _"What!! really??? whats wrong with people? those scenes were of great artistic licence, very well crafted, hmm, what to do, what to do?.. I know we'll just explain exactly that, that's bound to calm people down"_ ** ------- *A little time passes* ------- ** *Random Team Member:* _"yeah that didn't work, people are still mad"_ *Cameron:* _"hmm, now that I think about it, maybe using unverified rumours to commit total character assassination of a good dutiful man was wrong and insulting to his memory"_ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah Cameron and his team being massively insulting to William Murdock's character and memory was bad enough, but the way they then tried to excuse it- was even worse... shame on them for that....

@suba7320

Ай бұрын

It's a drama, it's not a documentary. You need villains and conflict in the story or else it's boring.

Cameron did Murdoch pretty dirty too. His family was pissed.

@sebcat04

3 ай бұрын

But this issue permeates the whole history of Titanic's legacy, Ismay the greedy arrogant brute who leads his ship to doom in the pursuit of lining his pockets with more cash, only to chicken out when shit inevitably hits the fan, leaving over a thousand of his customers and employees to die horribly. The perfect story of spinelessness, especially in Edwardian Britain and America. If a lie is told enough times, it becomes the truth. If you think about it, it's thanks to Bruce Ismay and his father Thomas for building the WSL into the booming business entity it was, and bringing about the Olympic-class ships. A sickening irony - the popular retellings of the story celebrate the ship as a marvel of technology, yet slanders the guy who thought of it in the first place.

@cannabiscomet4410

2 ай бұрын

Rightfully so, The man died a hero. Most of those who lived owed him their lives.

@JRA6192

2 ай бұрын

@@cannabiscomet4410 Well, in Murdoch's case, it's a lot more unsure what his ultimate fate was, and there 'are' some testimonies about an officer shooting bystanders, and committing suicide, and some claimed it was him. That one is a case of 'we'll never truly know.' Unlike Ismay's story.

@JaxonSmithers

2 ай бұрын

I remember his family being upset, can’t say as I blame them. 🤷‍♂️

@fmyoung

Ай бұрын

@@JRA6192 Another who might've taken his life according to Walter Lord was Chief Officer Wilde

Glad some of these myths are being cleared up I only take exception to one part. There is no way Ismay could have thought the ship was empty. He knew there wasn’t enough life boats for everyone. Now I don’t think it was his duty to start searching the ship in her last minutes, but saying he thought all the women and children were in life boats just isn’t possible.

@melz6625

3 ай бұрын

There is a point to be made how a traumatic situation doesn’t lend itself to logical thinking. And he wasn’t trained in emergency response, so he must be thought of as a mere everyday citizen. In that it is possible all his knowledge about the fact on boat capacity was drowned out by his subconscious absolutely avoiding to face the horror of the fact. As in his brain tricking him to believe: “it is too horrible to think that so many people will die in this tragedy, so of course all the people will find a place on the lifeboat and be rescued”

@thing_under_the_stairs

3 ай бұрын

I think there's a possibility that in the moment he was completely in denial that so many people were going to die, and after spending what probably felt like a long time loading lifeboats, then not being able to fill the one he got into, he may have convinced himself that nobody was left onboard Titanic. Seeing and hearing how many people were in the water must have been terrible.

@4k8t

3 ай бұрын

Given the circumstances, such as in his vicinity there probably were no women or children to board the life boat, in recalling the event, he might speak as if [he thought] all women and children had "gotten away on life boats" or, if he thought about it more accurately, to say that where he was there were no women and children to take the remaining seats on the life boat. But he said the former not the latter. There was no duty, given no women or children were at that life boat station, for him to go down with the ship simply because there might (were) women and children elsewhere on the ship who were going to die.

@ChairmanPaulieD

3 ай бұрын

@@thing_under_the_stairs you can see in the 1997 movie in the scene where Ismay is assisting First Officer Murdoch with the passengers you see the MAJORITY of the passengers were boarding the lifeboats in the aft section of the boat deck. Even First Officer Murdoch asked a seaman “where is everyone” and the seaman replied “they’re all still aft sir” so Ismay helped with whoever was around but I think Murdoch told Ismay to board the lifeboat

@ArchivoLocalUY

Ай бұрын

It is possible. Lightoller said that when he was preparing collapsible B a crowd of women and children emerged from the inside of the ship, and up to that point, even he thought that all women and children had been evacuated. Later Edith Russel also said that when she encountered Ismay he said "All Women and children, I thought they had left the ship"

I always hated how Ismay is always depicted in the story of the Titanic. For 1 I never really believed the scandalous rumor of him wanting to push C.Smith to sail at full speed through an ice field. But most of all I HATE how he was villainized for simply surviving.

@Smethells2023

3 ай бұрын

I’ve often wondered if Ismay was at all encouraged by Purser McElroy to board Collapsible C. McElroy assisted with its loading (and he may have also been the one firing gunshots towards the end, if Jack Thayer’s account is to be believed). McElroy had been personally introduced to Ismay by John Ellis- later to be his father-in-law- and was hired on to WSL not long after. Perhaps the two exchanged a few words at the end, and he encouraged his benefactor to save himself? Who knows.

@vernalbug

3 ай бұрын

I agree. Anyone in that same position would have done the same thing.

@SolidAvenger1290

3 ай бұрын

Sadly, Hollywood (& Cameron) has prospered from making Ismay a false villain in the story of Titanic for over a century. Had they shown how the captain and crew of the Californian behaved during the tragedy in the movies, I think people would slowly understand that Ismay wasn't a villain but a tragic victim/factor who saw his dream collapse in front of his eyes and who made very "human decisions."

@yamato6114

3 ай бұрын

I think it’s because of the human tendency to want a villain in the narrative. Captain Smith is painted as a hero for dying with his ship, and so is Andrews. So the convenient target becomes Ismay. Truth is the sinking wasn’t one single person’s fault. It was a result of a multitude of factors that aligned in just the right way.

@DylRicho

3 ай бұрын

​@@yamato6114 Cameron's version of Titanic already had a villain in Cal. The historical personnel should have been portrayed correctly.

I cannot imagine the survivor's guilt that man must've had up to his final days...

@chrisinnes2128

Күн бұрын

He could even speak to his own grandchildren about it

I think the 97 movie did a pretty good job of depiciting a guy who’s clearly in shock when he finds out the ship is going to sink and that shock continues to influence his decision making with regards to getting on a life boat.

@Nebulasecura

3 ай бұрын

The major mistake it made was that conversation with captain Smith being delivered the way it was.

In addition to being the year Ismay died (At the old age of 75), 1937 was also the year RMS Olympic's hull was ignominiously scrapped.

He sounds as though he was really sweet. Such a shame he was dragged so horribly. Thank you for this video.

@melissasheppard6674

2 ай бұрын

One of his distant relations, Derrick Ismay, did an interview before. While I understand people thinking Ismay was selfish and cowardly, I don’t believe all the hatred toward him was warranted.

@galesal1109

Ай бұрын

Really sweet? Haha

@ryancraig9352

Ай бұрын

Oh I'm sure he was just a kitten. lol

I think people are very quick to judge people's reaction during a disaster without acytually being there and experiencing it themselves, and having just read or seen something about it without actually experiencing it.

@maryoltendorf353

Ай бұрын

Looks like a lot of ship warnings of ice sent and they all might have been going slower. Bulkheads by air tight doors like walls between doors not sealed at top and water came in filled up those areas helped to sink ship. Said it was a design flaw in last Titanic I saw on Sat in Illinois.

As promised, you leaned into the correction of Ismay's mischaracterization. I was one of the masses who received a negative impression of him and never sought otherwise. Thank you for this follow-up.

Well since the original video was taken down I'll have to say again that this is a very well done video and I will definitely be using this on any future Ismay naysayers I come across. Thank you Mike!

@sillysad3198

3 ай бұрын

the cns zorship is wild lately! they slapped this vid with a cenzobanner.

@MLennholm

3 ай бұрын

@@sillysad3198 You have no idea what censorship means

@SolidAvenger1290

3 ай бұрын

@@sillysad3198 could call it "Hearstenship," seeing how the naysayers came out in force against Mike's original upload video. It's a sad shame, yet I am glad Oceanlinear re-released the video.

@DylRicho

3 ай бұрын

​@@SolidAvenger1290What was being said? I just thought Mike made a mistake and wanted to correct it.

@sillysad3198

3 ай бұрын

@@MLennholm mmmm, reality denial, delicious!

Journalism hasn’t changed. Narrative not fact then, narrative not facts now.

@naamadossantossilva4736

3 ай бұрын

And then they have the chutzpah to complain because we don't trust them.

@philiphumphrey1548

3 ай бұрын

Absolutely. Most journalists turn up to an event with the story and the line of attack already written in their heads. They're only looking for facts or details to confirm it. If you've witnessed an event yourself and then look at what most mainstream media journalists have written about it, you often wonder if they were at the same event.

@thomasackerman5399

3 ай бұрын

People think that cancel culture is anything new because of social media and the internet. But in fact it has always existed, just that it took a different form due to the media available at the time. This is an example of it with the so-called Yellow Journalism of the late 1800s and early 1900s.

@MakerInMotion

3 ай бұрын

​@@thomasackerman5399The difference is yellow journalism went after public figures. Internet mobs will get a regular person fired, doxed, and swatted for a spicy tweet. Someone nobody ever heard of until that day. Regular working people were below the radar of yellow journalism. That's why today it's worse. It doesn't take a journalist and a newspaper to ruin someone. People can do it to each other.

@woodyjohnson8575

2 ай бұрын

absolutely, it fits for their predictable movie trope writing style to have a rich villain to point the finger at. Oi, it's him! that's the badguy. look at his evil tash!

reupload? great video!

@Rick_Cleland

3 ай бұрын

Yeah... What happened to the first one? I thought I was losing my mind.

@-MadameD-

3 ай бұрын

​@@Rick_Cleland Mike Brady took it down because he had a vision that if he dident U would leave a hate comment on his video... and Now u are only confused so u left a confused comment which will not make him sad

Great video Mike! Well done. As for Ismay, no matter his faults after 112 years the portrayal of him as the Titanic 'bad guy' should stop. His reputation has suffered enough I think. He was blamed for simply surviving. Those journalists who vilified him, I wonder what they would of done in his place? What would any of us do? We don't know until we are actually in that situation. Mr Ismay was. He made a choice, one it sounds like he partially regretted.

@GamePlayerZ1912

3 ай бұрын

Unfortunately, Ismay's depiction will probably never change. The new movie (Unsinkable) is already vilianizing him, instead of taking the chance to correct this wrongful depiction.

@HappyRoach1

3 ай бұрын

I believe historians and journalists now are trying to repair J. Bruce Ismay's reputation. However, its Hollywood, that keeps making him a villain.

@luciacastellanos5248

2 ай бұрын

The wealthiest passenger on titanic put his pregnant wife on a lifeboat and refused to get on it eventhough the wife begged him to. He said that he didn't want to take a space that could be taken by a woman or child. He stayed and helped others to the lifeboats. To me, that is very heroic, as for Ismay surviving was very shameful because so many died. He lived as a recluse for the rest of his life, I have always thought that he wished he had died that night.

@dovetonsturdee7033

2 ай бұрын

@@luciacastellanos5248 Isn't brilliant how adept people are at making draconian judgements, on a laptop, from a comfy chair, 110 years after the event? Have another biscuit with your coffee.

@luciacastellanos5248

2 ай бұрын

@dovetonsturdee7033 lol the irony of ur statement, correct it then, I am a historian but I welcome you to prove me wrong.

A fascinating follow up could be a video about The Californian (the Captain of it was nearly as vilified as Ismay)

@HappyRoach1

3 ай бұрын

Captain Stanley Lord of the Californian. Sometimes he is scapegoated worse then the J. Bruce Ismay. When the truth is, the Californian, even if they mounted an attempt to save Titanic. They would have made it the same time as Carpathia. The Californian was much slower then Carpathia, despite being closer to Titanic. Then when Californian found out in the morning that Titanic had sunk, when they arrived on the scene as Carpathia was leaving. Carpathia asked them to look for any possible stray survivors, which Californian did. Another Mount Temple, who was planning to make it to Titanic, I believe was told to stop the rescue attempt because it was too dangerous by the ship owners. But weren't vilified like Californian was.

@doctoremil2678

2 ай бұрын

Agreed. And if you think about it, the Californian probably wouldn't have made much of a difference even if the crew had reacted at the first sign of trouble. She was fully shut down for the night, surrounded with ice and slow by design. Of course, maybe a few dozen more people could have been saved, though it's still unlikely, but the death toll would still be huge. Edit: my point is that the Californian would have only just beaten the Carpathia in the best-case scenario, or more likely arrived approximately at the same time.

@thomasackerman5399

2 ай бұрын

@@doctoremil2678Californian wasn't "fully shut down" since the two boilers had to be kept going to provide heat and standby steam just in case the ship needed to get underway due to the drifting ice. If you need to see just how fast she could've gotten underway, look at how fast she did once Lord gave the order to do so around 4 am and after going THROUGH the ice field to the incorrect location, and then down southeast and back up, she arrived around 6 am where Carpathia was. Had Lord done something at around 12-1 am, she might've arrived in time to rescue a few people, and then the survivors in the lifeboats (saving lives lost due to exposure in Boats A and B). Lord would've been celebrated as a great hero for trying, and likely supplanted Rostron in history.

@dovetonsturdee7033

2 ай бұрын

@@doctoremil2678 So, you believe that savings a few dozen more people really wasn't worth the effort. Clearly, you weren't Captain Rostron in an earlier life!

@doctoremil2678

2 ай бұрын

@@dovetonsturdee7033 Of course not, they absolutely should have got going as soon as they suspected something wasn't right.

Excellent vid Michael! You have dispelled hearsay with facts, Hearst was a hypocite. He ruined so many actors for having affairs yet he had a mistress. I believe he did this for more readers. Orson Welles acted in a movie closley based on Hearsts life which Hearst tried to have withdrawn. Welles was the harassed till Hearst died.

@carlosadriantinajerovelazc4338

3 ай бұрын

I'm not an expert on Hearst's life. But the more I learn about him, the more he seems despicable. Recently I heard about his (and Pulitzer's) fight against the "newsies" strike of 1899. Imagine a grown-up businessman having an actual business fight against kids (many of them orphanages), because of the profitability of his newspapers.

@MagiTailWelkin

3 ай бұрын

Citizen Kane.

@Ken-fh4jc

3 ай бұрын

Citizen Kane. The most famous movie ever made. Welles also directed it.

@geoffpilcher2460

3 ай бұрын

@@MagiTailWelkin Thank You

@kylesanders8276

3 ай бұрын

@@carlosadriantinajerovelazc4338 And Patty Hearst was his granddaughter

Yea the rumor about Ismay pressuring Captain Smith into speeding the Titanic to make headlines, even going as far to say that he wanted the Blue Ribbon, doesn't makes sense at all. Titanic and her sisters were built to push the boundaries of size, comfort and luxury, but not speed. Ismay knew that his ships couldn't compete in speed. So why would he ever push his ship to do something it wasn't designed to do? However, i don't believe everything he said at the inquiry. For example he said that he thought all passengers were already evacuated when he left the ship. That's a straight up lie. He was for sure aware that Titanics life boats only had space for half of the passengers. There's no way that he didn't expected hundreds of people to die

@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim

2 ай бұрын

To be fair, that was likely a white lie (or so he thought at the time). He was probably well aware of the absolute grilling he was going to get when he got to New York. It could have also been a misinterpreted quote. He could have meant "All the Passangers _in his immediate area_ had been evacuated" (Which we know was true).

@BarelloSmith

29 күн бұрын

He never claimed that everyone on the ship was evacuated but that there was no one left in the vicinity when the boat was being launched, which is true since the boat wasn't even filled to full capacity.

When I first heard about the Titanic disaster my mom related a story about Ismay that said in his last years his servants would hear him screaming in his sleep reliving the nightmare of that night and the guilt he had endured over the years I don’t know if the story is true or not but it would make sense if it really was true.

I saw this when it was originally uploaded, Great video, I like how you showed who Ismay truly was🙂

A sad story. Ismay has been vilified, unfairly. Hurst was a very powerful man in his own right, and used that power to his own advantage. I'm glad there are folks, like Mike, who are willing to tell the rest of the story.

Re-upload? Well. I'll say here what I said in the first upload. What would the public think of Thomas Andrews if he had survived? Thomas was the ship's designer. It was for all intents and purposes his baby. He would take meticulous notes on any voyage he took (that little detail in the film of him on the grand staircase with the book was accurate) to ensure his ships were up to snuff. I think if Thomas Andrews had survived...The public wouldn't care that Thomas wasn't the captain. The public wouldn't care that Thomas wasn't the one who pushed for more speed. The public wouldn't even care that he helped as many as he could before being offered a seat. At the end of the day, it's about what's easy, not right. And it would be all too easy for Thomas to take the blame. Even overshadowing Ismay simply because he was the shipbuilder. The public would look at that title, see that the ship seemed as "unsinkable" had sunk because of a hole torn in her bow, and blame the most convenient person. It wouldn't be fair. But I do think the public would've torn Andrews to shreds.

@starrsmith3810

3 ай бұрын

I think there’s a strong chance he would’ve faired better but he still would’ve gotten a shit ton of the blame simply because of how associated he is with the ship and the fact that he would’ve been a man surviving. They didn’t too much care that probably more women survived then men did, the fact that any men survived over women would’ve set them off.

@jeffarc

3 ай бұрын

Oh hey! I remember seeing this comment in the last upload. This one was a really good eye opening what if!

@faithhopelove9567

3 ай бұрын

@@starrsmith3810 Since we are already on the topic, how do you think they would have treated Murdoch if had he survived?

@agnawkneemoose6373

3 ай бұрын

Everyone associated with the Titanic was blamed to some extent, though those who died in the sinking were certainly given more grace. Lightoller wasn't on watch when the berg was struck and actually stayed with the ship until the ship left him. Still, his career was ruined by Titanic. Alexander Carlisle was at least as involved, if not more than Thomas Andrews in the design of Titanic. He wasn't on the ship, but faced some tough grilling in the British Inquiry and it's fair to guess that Andrews would have faced the same. However, the number of lifeboats carried by Titanic beyond the Board of Trade mandated minimum was ultimately a decision that came from White Star. Titanic had the capacity to carry up to 64 boats and an early plan submitted by Carlisle showed 48 boats being carried. It does need to be said that this was mostly "future proofing" Titanic against anticipated changes in regulations. Still, there was no benefit or motive for H&W to restrict the number of lifeboats. Whatever White Star ordered, the cost would have been passed on to them. H&W was generally safety conscious, as seen by the other features built into Titanic, but they also couldn't insist that White Star carry more boats than they were legally obligated to. How hard H&W actually pushed White Star, their paying customer, to buy and carry more boats... that's not precisely clear. The four additional collapsibles demonstrate that there was some thought / compromise in that direction. It would have been interesting to hear Andrews' account this, as he was managing director when Titanic was fitted.

@starrsmith3810

3 ай бұрын

@@faithhopelove9567 Probably the same way Lowe was treated. Lowe was seen as a hero. I can imagine it would’ve been the same for Murdoch. Hell he already is seen as a hero. His career thing……I’m not so sure. Though Wilde and Moody would’ve probably been associated with the myth that an officer shot himself if Murdoch had of survived.

This was excellent! And it really does show that journalism has never been the pure and agenda-less source of news that we sometimes fantasize must have been true at some point. At the end of the day, every article is written by a person and every person has bias, and motivation to sell the news. I'd like to think that Ismay's family and descendants would find some solace in this correction to the historical record. Good on you for putting this together!

Ismay is a complicated guy. He did help fill boats up to the end. There probably weren’t any other passengers immediately around. But we can never know how hard he looked. He didn’t offer to trade places with any crewman who was lowering his boat. Of course that wasn’t his job and he wouldn’t have been as capable as a trained crewman. I’m guessing he was neither a hero nor a villain, just a man in a situation he never expected to encounter.

@Nebulasecura

Ай бұрын

Makes sense. He was a businessman who cared about his ships maiden voyages. He wasn't in his element for the situation the ship was in

@BarelloSmith

29 күн бұрын

Tbh, he did more that night that he was trained for. He helped to fill the boats but he was no seaman and it would've made no sense for him to trade places with one of the officers. He wouldn't have been helpful in the last moments of the Titanic.

Really apprecaite your story telling. Been watching your videos for a while and I'm always impressed with your eloquance, respect and empathy. Please keep producing them as they are a highlight of each week!

I was here during the first upload!

Another fantastic, informative, well researched and well edited mini-doc from Mr Brady. You, sir, are a class act.

Looking forward to this video, I never knew this was reupload, thanks though!

I know that I’m not sure what I would’ve done in Ismay’s place, and most of us don’t know, but we often seem to assume the best of ourselves while assigning less noble responses to others. Regarding Ismay’s hurried return to Britain I wouldn’t expect him to be well read in maritime law and he likely was under the impression that inquiries would be held in the country in which the ship under investigation was flagged, not in the country it was bound for.

@jskywalker58

3 ай бұрын

lets be honest most people would have probably done the same thing if they were in his shoes its easier to say you wouldn't when your not in his position

I’ve been binge watching your Titanic videos since I discovered the channel last month and this one just popped up right as I’ve got home from a screening of Titanic the musical, excellent timing!

@susanradford5787

2 ай бұрын

I found on UTUBE “Hero’s of the Titanic” Awesome movie !! Hope you’ll find it

..What a detailed presentation stuffed with very well researched meaty informations....Thank you so much dearest Mike Brady ! 💙

The fact he was helping get so many passengers off the ship, and took the last seat on the last lifeboat near him makes him a hero, who just happened to see a opportunity to save himself too, nothing about that makes him a coward, I mean how many can say they'd do the same in those circumstances?

I was really looking forward to this one - thank you for such wonderfully informative videos!!

I'm glad that this was posted. I have always had a bad opinion of Ismay based on media reports, film..but I was wrong. It is a shame he was so vilified when so many mistakes were made leading to the sinking of the ship by others.

Why did you repost this video? Also I LOVE YOU VIDEOS MIKE!!!❤❤❤ YOU GOT ME BACK INTO OCEANLINERS!!! 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

@SolidAvenger1290

3 ай бұрын

KZread and maybe some viewers likely didn't have a favorable view of the original video. It's a sad shame since the original had more than 52,000 views in half a day since it was released.

Ismay's wife said that sometimes she would find him in their bedroom or in his study, walking around and making up "what ifs" of that night on how the tragedy could have been avoided and that he would smile at those thoughts, perhaps because it made him feel like he could go back in time and put his "what ifs" on pratice.

@Auerfelt

Ай бұрын

May I ask where this is mentioned? I have never heard of this before and have read quite a bit about it. However, this might be true. A family friend said: ’’He tormented himself with useless speculation as to how the disaster could possible have been avoided. If only he had not ordered the building of the ship in the first place or if only she had struck the iceberg in any other way; these and similar thoughts haunted him continually, but he was not able to have the relief of discussing the subject, which might have helped share the burden, as Florence would never have the subject mentioned.’’ Florence [Mrs. Bruce Ismay] was quite protective of Ismay. She was just trying to make a life comfortable for him by avoiding the subject to be discussed. They were both victims of the Titanic in some sense. Florence’s sister Constance who had married Bruce’s brother Bower, was probably the only one in the family who talked to Ismay about the Titanic.

@mikeponyforce780

Ай бұрын

@@Auerfelt I remember reading this in several articles about Ismay's life post-Titanic

Many Thanks Mike, really enjoy your channel. Clearly a passion for you and a great education for your audience. Look forward to ongoing content, keep it up. Great lessons in this one, something we still see with the media of today and on human behaviour like with Ismay and those involved.

Excellent as always, thank you again Mike.

Great video! I have an idea for another one, a video about Captain Smith, what he did during his time with White Star, and what happened to him on the night of Titanic’s demise. Just an idea

Odd this was re-uploaded right as I was halfway through the original upload.

Another superbly researched video by easily one of the best presenters here> Another big thank you to Mike and company !

i wanted to say i love your new intro!! it’s really awesome :)

I love these detailed videos! After watching this, I now have a new understanding of the man and his mindset. If I see his depiction again in films or shows, Ill forever look at him in a different light. Poor guy..

Cracking video as always.

Fantastic video. Well researched - thank you for sharing!

Nicely done presentation and analysis of the facts.

AN OD VIDEO ON MY BIRTHDAY! Thanks Mike. Is this a reupload?? Good nonetheless. Thanks for sharing this!

Had he been in a situation like this, you just know that Hearst would have been running over people, and tossing women and children out of the life boats, in order to save his own self-important ass! He's awful smug while sitting in his comfy chair behind a desk.

@OnionChoppingNinja

18 күн бұрын

Amen to that. If there is one thing I've learned in life is that the most self righteous people are the first to crack and abandon their morals when push comes to shove.

Another amazing video! Just ordered my self one of your guys “triple screw” sweaters. Can’t wait for it to come in! Keep it up!

@PURPLE_HAZE.de.

2 ай бұрын

Spending money on shiuuuut

Unique work! Keep it up I wish you all the best!

He removed the 3 second long clip of Captain Smith that was in the last video

@Rick_Cleland

3 ай бұрын

Really? Is that all it was?

@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim

2 ай бұрын

​@@Rick_ClelandWouldn't doubt it. KZread is very finicky about using clips these days.

Original video was made private and this re-uploaded? Original ID ended E2M this ends BSY. What changed? I think a video clip is missing but not exactly sure, it seems the same? Both videos were 19:47 long. Anyway... Guess that reminds me of the quote from someone famous, might it have been Churchill who said 'History is written by the victors' - although this wasn't a story born from war, it was a story born for someone looking for someone to blame and shows how certain details can be construed to construct a narrative to serve someone else's purposes. At least finally, it seems that the more nuanced facts are starting to reveal that Ismay wasn't as much as a villain as he'd been made. It seems like it weighed heavily on him afterwards and that bit at the end saying he'd died in 1937 but mentally 'died' after the disaster. I hope he finally was able to rest in peace. Edit: fixed 1937 date (originally put 1931 which was wrong)

Thank you for sharing this

I have to admit that if I were in his position and the opportunity presented itself to save myself then I would certainly take it.

@BarelloSmith

29 күн бұрын

As you should. How many people unnecessary died that day because they felt they had to die an "honourable" death...

How come this was re-uploaded?

Thank you for the video.

I never realized... thank you for sharing it. Definitely look at it differently now.

Re-upload. Really, Brady? Now, I have to backtrack my thoughts of what I have previously written... Who's really in focus here is William Randolph Hearst Sr. From what we know of both his business, private life and personal thoughts, he was an opportunistic vulture, despicable human being and repulsive creature. Somebody should made well documented video about him, rather than Titanic's demise. As for the media made about this tragedy, S.O.S. Titanic (TV movie) is the only one that portrays J. Bruce Ismay in a fair light. Here, he acknowledges J. Edward Smith's judgment of what is best for voyage and the ship.

reuploaded? i'll watch it again actually thanks for the reminder

I’ve been fascinated by the tragedy of the Titanic for over 5 years now, was an obsession but not so much anymore, but just an incredible story that seems to simple on the surface but is so much more complex that you realise. I recently subscribed to this account and say this, sceptical to watch just as I would be about many things, but my view in J.B. Ismay has been changed significantly! The media does make him seem to be the typical villain, but after watching this, I feel guilty for thinking of him as a villain before. Incredible story on Ismay!!👏🏻👏🏻

Great story telling! Thank you Mike.

Excellent video l! Hope it doesn’t get taken down again. I hope you’ll keep doing videos on the passengers of Titanic.

WELL DONE Mike Brady! I'm curious, do you have an opinion of Captain Stanley Lord as well? Obviously, he was tagged the other villain of the Titanic disaster. I am not convinced that history has been fair to Captain Lord, yet still cannot understand why he never turned-on his radio.

Greetings. How do you do. Thank you very much for sharing these historical facts. Much appreciated.

Another great video

Thanks... Liked Subscirbed... For what it's worth... I find the flashy editing somewhat distracting and less enjoyable than previous more dignified style... The energetic transitions... sound effects... etc. I'd felt the understated tone of the editing was much more agreeable... Just a thought. Thanks again... Always enjoyable.

@ToreDL87

3 ай бұрын

Same, not a fan of the whole dopamine editing, was way better before.

You never know how you’re going to act in the presence of death until it actually happens. The fact that Ismay was on the last lifeboat tells you the claims that he was a coward are false. With his power and position he could have very easily gotten into a boat earlier.

Another well told story. Thank you Mike!

Excellent analysis and reporting 👍

why the re-upload?Also missing audio

@laratheplanespotter

3 ай бұрын

I can hear it ok?

@Fuzzycatfur

3 ай бұрын

@laratheplanespotter i got here not even a min after the re-upload. beats me

@Fuzzycatfur

3 ай бұрын

​@@laratheplanespotterworks for me now too

Ismay deserved redemption. This was a really good video

Great video. Would love to see a video about Alexander Carlisle and Thomas Andrew’s and their differences in the design

Your channels are among the most professional on KZread. 👍

All things consdered, this video made my heart break for Ismay. I had long thought of him as the 'baddie' but as a human, I believe that he was just excitable like any another person in his position would be. I cannot imagine the horror he must have felt at realising what he must have felt. The story of Ismay breaks my heart and I hope he rests in peace wherever he is.

Wasn't William Randolph Hearst the one that stirred the Frenzy and started the spanish-american war...?

@PrezVeto

3 ай бұрын

Yep

Thanks for this!

Hi man, I love your channel. I have a suggestion for you, a video explaining the Titanic pumps, and how many of them would have been necessary to save the ship

@PURPLE_HAZE.de.

2 ай бұрын

Like 300 pumps

Since 1912, Ismay has been the villain in Titanic's story. But in 2024 and beyond, William Hearst is the real villain. Ismay was an innocent passenger who was bundled into a boat, to ensure that he was present in the inquiry of the sinking. And he helped many escaped that night while willing to stay behind til the end but the officers were following orders to save as many passengers as possible.

@M167A1

3 ай бұрын

Nonsense. Hurst was a mixed bag certainly but someone died so this guy could save his skin. Screw him.

@carlosadriantinajerovelazc4338

3 ай бұрын

@@M167A1 If I'm getting the message you tried to convey, then I disagree. Had Ismay not boarded that boat, his seat would have been empty. Ismay didn't "steal" that seat from anyone. There was no one (woman or child) nearby to take it instead. So, there would have been one more victim.

@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim

2 ай бұрын

​@@M167A1Mate, that couldn't be further from the truth. Who, on a practically deserted deck, would have died to save Ismay? Other than the Officers, the only people around Collapsible C was Ismay and a 1st Class Gentleman (Whose name currently escapes me). Both got in. If there is anyone to blame for the number of survivors, it's Lightoller. _He_ launched boats at quarter to half capacity.

@darth3911

2 ай бұрын

@@VelociraptorsOfSkyrimThere was a study done and it found the ships rate of sinking was fast enough that it shouldn’t have been able to launch as many boats as it did. Simply put if they launched half the amount of total boats filling to full capacity there’d be less survivors as a good portion of survivors entered lifeboats after jumping in the water.

@megamonster1234

Ай бұрын

@@M167A1 Did you ignore the entire video that Oceanliner Designs posted? There was nobody around and that the boat wasn't even full proves that because if another person was there, they would have jumped in too since there was room.

Thank you Mike for making this video. Hollywood (& Cameron) has prospered from making Ismay a false villain in the story of Titanic for over a century. Had they shown how the captain and crew of the Californian behaved during the tragedy in the movies, I think people would slowly understand that Ismay wasn't a villain but a tragic victim/factor who saw his dream collapse in front of his eyes and who made very "human decisions."

Beautifully done

I admit to having loathed Ismay for many years. His reputation as a coward who sneaked aboard a lifeboat in women's attire was solidly cemented into Titanic lore. In recent years I have come to respect the man who did all the good he possibly could in a terrible situation.

@egm8602

3 ай бұрын

But he had survivors sign away their rights to compensation for $25 each in the weeks immediately after the disaster. Just more spineless greed...😢

@ToreDL87

3 ай бұрын

@@egm8602 I mean, there was what he did (set up a fund for ship sinking survivors etc etc), and what WSL (the subsidiary company he directed, as an employee, not owner) did under WSL guidelines.

@-MadameD-

3 ай бұрын

Do u think he knows and now he hates U or do U think he dosent care? Do u believe there an afterlife

@chocothebananacat7686

3 ай бұрын

​@@egm8602Do you have a link to a source for that?

@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim

2 ай бұрын

​@@egm8602Even if that was true, you do realize that $25 in 1912 is worth approximately $795 today (2024) right?

Thank you for always digging for the truth These misrepresentations of titanic pushed for over a century really have me concerned about the new titanic documentary that's being released. Unsinkable Titanic Untold.

This was a great watch this morning and a great watch tonight. Sorry you had to reupload but this video made me go listen to Ismay’s Senate testimony. It’s interesting to read/hear.

Hats off to your courage and attention to detail.

Reupload?

I would hope the decedents of Mr Ismay could see this video and your exoneration of this situation. An expert historian without careless rhetoric. An outstanding reveal that otherwise would continue to discredit his name. Thank you for this amazing documentary!

@Auerfelt

Ай бұрын

You can always recommend this video to the descedants of Bruce Ismay. You can try to find them under the names such as Cheape, Sanderson and Hovell-Thurlow-Cumming-Bruce.

I would say this is one of your best ever videos. It is very important that facts are not lost to sensationalism, a thing as true today as it was a century ago.

EXCELLENT... Well done. Thank you.

I've always thought ismsy got an unfair rep. He didn't do what almost anyone else wouldn't have done. He was a scapegoat and that's all. The fact he stayed on the ship almost to the end and helped get women and children off the ship while helping to keep order speaks volumes. He was unfairly drug through the mud

I'm curious, does KZread have a grudge against Ismay? I'm kind of surprised that this video got context flagged, since you repeatedly refer to historical records.

@darth3911

2 ай бұрын

No those flags are autogenerated and have nothing to do with the opinions or goals of the video. YT started doing it during Covid ironically the content they been made to originally target was a conspiracy which turned out true.

Another fantastic video! Unrelated, but I've always wondered which ship is silhouetted on the Oceanliner Designs logo...what's its story?

Good work, kudos

why did you reupload? also, i dislike the concept of going down with the ship. you are more useful alive, not dead.

I feel bad for J Bruce Ismay. When I learned about his backstory and what he did, I did Facebook Post to show others a difference in him. He never removed any additional boats, he was just following Board of Trade regulations from the 1890s, ships over 10000 Tons carry 16 Lifeboats. The WSL was never in on a speed record as it was costly and short lived, their last blue ribbon holder was Teutonic of 1889. Maybe he was just checking on Titanics performance like he did with Olympics Maiden Voyage. He got Cedric to stay in hopes to take him and the crew back to Europe, they were traumatized by the disaster. William Randolph Hearst inherited his father SF Newspaper and he offered Ismay to join him, Ismay wasn’t comfortable with the press, so he turned down the offer. Hearst use this as slander to tarnish Ismay reputation. The Crew on Titanic were extremely unprepared for a situation of Titanics. Are. lifeboats at the time were meant to ferry passengers between ships after using the wireless to call for help, as shown with RMS Republic. He saved himself when the area was clear. He resigned from WSL in 1913 ensuring families receive compensation. In the 1930s he tried to save the company in the Depression but was unsuccessful and he passed away RIP.

Very interesting video, its quite sad really what happened to Ismay and how he was treated and that its stuck to this day

Question, where do you get all of the photo's that you use in your video? Because for example, in your video about Titanic's lights, you seemed to have a lot of really rare photo's of everything!

While it is honorable to save women and children in situations like this, but how will they live when the husband/father is not around to provide for them?

The poor man paid a terrible price and certainly didn’t deserve the hell he got. I’ve always said if he hadn’t taken a seat, he’d just be another notch on the death toll.