“...they incorporated the abuse into their belief system.” Well said. And there’s the rub. The very core of the problem.

@petrairene

4 жыл бұрын

No, they incorporated part of their worldly culture into the belief system. For example their attitude towards sexuality, patriarchy, general authoritarian leadership style.

I too experienced forst hand his abuse while on pilgrimage in Nepal with many Lama's. If anyone would like to hear a very unbiased and educated response to this topic, look up Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche's letter or response. We are all judgemental beings, thats how we survive and we get our own validation in thid life. If we, the so called Buddhist practitioners jump on the ego's judgement rollercoaster, then we forget what the path is really about, which is wisdom. He is not the first teacher to do this, and he certainly wont be the last. I grew up in the Catholic Church schooling system and witness more abuse than this. Its everywhere but its up to us how we deal with it. I practiced and traveled with many, many Rinpoche's and all they displayed was the essence of the path and generally that's what most do so dont throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak because of one ladies perception and experience, because that's all it is.

To me, just sticking to the original teaching of the Buddha is good enough. Practice until the insight of no-self arise, gain stream-entry and Enlightenment will become automatic and inevitable. No need to rely on a Guru for all your life. However, for that, one do need someone who has really walked the path themselves to provide some pointers on the way.

So well put Thalia! To hear someone else put your experience into words has a healing effect

The problem isn't in teachings but in some Guru's.

Thank you Tahlia. I’ve been interested in Tibetan teachings for a few years, been up at Tushita, etc. Ive recently been getting into Alan Wallace and his Dzogchen courses. I found a local Rigpa institute and couldn’t believe my luck! Then I read their website, and started reading survivor blogs to educate myself. I’ve never been interested in dogma, but if the teachings of ‘crazy wisdom’ and guru worship are embedded in a way that can’t be removed that is a significant problem. And if the same teachers are there who stood by during his reign of terror (!), I don’t know how I could be part of that. Ps. I read Holy Hell by Gail Tredwell. I’d highly recommend for anyone considering guru worship.

I admire that you chose truth over dogma, even though it meant facing uncomfortable realities. That says something about a person.

I became interested in Buddhism through my interest in science. One thing I liked about Buddhism, at least the type I was familiar with, was the freedom to question. If Buddhist meditation and perspective has the power to improve your life by training your brain to work better and giving you a better understanding of the true nature of reality - then it should have no problem with being evaluated in light of scientific study. I want to see MRIs and EEGs, I want to compare what is being taught about reality to studies in physics, etc. A teacher or group, no matter how welcoming, is NOT Buddhism. I don't think you even really have to be a Buddhist to be a Buddhist - know what I mean? I am so sorry for all the people who were basically betrayed by this abuse. I imagine you came to this with a sincere heart.

Wonderful! You shall never have your trust and love diverted ever again . Each moment is where the truth is , not in the future or in the past or in other teachers . Fabulous, good job done ! Freedom is one of the greatest gifts . Cherish it well . 🙏🌹

What do you think of his book? Are those teachings invalid because what he did decades later? Should it not be read?

I bet you were already a wise child with a nice personality. Maybe you may never have needed a 'teacher' anyway. Do you know "The Drama Of The Gifted Child" (Alice Miller)? It is a good book on childhood trauma. Some children for whom it was unsafe to use their talent to see the truth, became insecure about it and no longer trust their insights as they grow older. A video that deals with the topic of 'truth tellers': kzread.info/dash/bejne/iIN5qMpuYJeYerQ.html 17:56 I think there are substitutes for religion that will slowly dissolve the 'unmoored' feeling. You can become a humanist. You can learn to combine compassion and strength, intuition and rational thinking. You can learn to focus on your personal situation and a warm social environment. Empower yourself and set an example for a younger generation. There is the challenge of inventing things yourself. But it will be so satisfying if you become successful in that! It all comes down to learning to wear multiple hats at once: being director, screenwriter and actor in the movie of your own life.

To me, who experienced the same stuff in another tradition, the people who step out of these traditions, take an evolutionary step. They are not longer commited to an enclave that strives for enlightment but on a deep level experienced there is no place in this world where there is no duality. Except for sometimes in ones own mind and heart of course. That being said we are wounded on a deep spiritual level and to climb out of that is of a courage and strength the perpetrators maybe only will encounter in some next life time. I do not excuse the abuse, it is awfull and deeply not compassionate, I applaud the people who climbed out of this pit and kept their strength and dignity

Hi Tahlia, sorry to hear about your experience with your master and Rigpa in generale. Though, don't you think that your idea about buddhism, and tibetan buddhism in particular, could be tainted by what you learned at Rigpa? For example, in Tsongkhapa's Lam Rim it says that you must not act according to your master words when they are contrary to the teaching.

@theManishMuse

2 жыл бұрын

I think her point is that it IS in the teachings.

This is great. I very much relate, having fallen out of 'the system' (FPMT/Manjushri just as it was turning to weird culty NKT). Yes, some tough times. Phew, compared to staying in.

Good talk.

He has this much of wisdom and knowledge in him but he is more indulge in the the world of desire and ignorance which is basically contradictory with his teaching.

if it’s any consolation ‘Rigpa’ is biting the dust losing huge sums of money and membership. They will disappear and find themselves in the jaws of the demonic Hells. Never fear.

Where can we get safe Buddhist learnings?

@BeyondtheTempleVideos

4 жыл бұрын

I recommend Tergar, Mingyur Rinpoche's group. Also Thubten Chodron.

@sagejunkie7089

4 жыл бұрын

Beyond the Temple thank you X

@oneseeker2

3 жыл бұрын

I truly trust Thubten Chodron, still, I put my own trust in myself, first.

@momomeshtv7318

3 жыл бұрын

Ajahn Thanissaro, Ajahn Keng, Ajahn Martin "Thai Forest Tradition". Helped me alot in getting out of the "Mantras, Praying, Hoping, Passive" mindset. And yes, got brainwashed by Mahayana and Tibetan wrong view Buddhism from young. Even my mother hasn't given up on her wrong view cause she's in it for more than 35 years.......

@RR-yv4sz

3 жыл бұрын

Pema Chodron

At least she's honest

About 20 years ago I declared spiritual, intellectual, emotional and last not least financial independence. I said to myself, if I don't dare to claim enlightenment here and now (physically I was in Rishikesh India), how long shall I postpone it and for what purpose? What good is procrastination? I - without I - am I - without I - for myself - without me.

I think it’s time that Tibetan Buddhism is called ‘Lamaism’ again. I find that label freeing. And it is closer to what’s actually going on. I want to return to a simple Buddhism and reject Lamaism.

This is why I prefer Stoicism over Buddhism. You learn about Stoicism's philosophy, mindfulness meditation and science and you can throw Dogma out the window.

I remember her

Sad that you became like a hard rocking no space for seepage of water even after 25 years of training.Go on looking inside you and one day you will find d answer

He was and always will be a coward

I hope, my message is not late. Why such case of exploitation doesn't happen with native Bhuddhist community especially in india. It is because native people always keep border line between guru and student. Western students usually don't follow that, and i personally, don't trust those teachers both Monastic and Non-Monastic who live very far away from the native Bhuddhist community like tibetans, ladak, khunu, bhutia and arunachalu and sikkimist community to overseas places. Where they don't have that check and balance from the native community. Not only that, disgrace practioners both Monastic and Non-Monastic always flew to overseas and there they become a teacher. Just do a observation, majority of native community pay more respects to the Monastic monks, who always stay in robes even if they are in overseas.this is opposite in case of western students. Native people are by birth followers of Mahayan and Vajrayan tradition. Still, they devote their time also in practice of Bhuddhist foundation practices instead of directly jumping into a core inner yoga or Vajrayan practices which has a discussion on various body anatomy and application of various body parts only for the purpose of controlling thatbuntamed minds. Since, many such people live in overseas. There, law and justice is very systematic and as and when such incidents of assault happen. Right away, lodge a police company and initiate a criminal trial instead of requesting other teacher for support. It is very difficult for teachers in india to support a case against someone claimed teacher who resides in overseas because such disgrace teachers are in overseas and there is a complete advance law and justice system. Such nature of act is criminal case and uninvited statement from teacher's in india can unnecessary become a interference in their criminal investigation. Remember, place of criminal trial is where, the crime actually happens in a place. You should force yourself to file a criminal case against such pseudo teachers because such a action will become a service to the Buddha Dhamma. One things, i also noticed that foreign students always engaged in meditation, you won't see native lay Bhuddhist community doing meditation day and night. There is no use of meditation without a slightest practice of Bodhichitta and Shunyata. One more information, whoever exploit you in the name of Bhuddhist Tantra, which is in reality not even a 1% of Bhuddhist Tantra. These are so called modern day " popular Tantra" means to exploit others in the name of Tantra by exploiting others. Whenever, there is a teaching by anybody , always ask a hard question. Then you will come to know the scholarship of such teachers. I support you, launch a criminal case or i hope you already started against other then soyal Rinpoche. 🙏🙏🙏

What you had learned and know from Sogyal Rinpoche still carrying on or just hanging on it. I think you had learned so many teachings of Buddha and Buddhism from your former late teacher. It's looks like you had a hard time, padron yourself. What did you say or do? You just can't make another group of people having the same knowledge of teaching from your late master. Thank you.

@jacquedaw

8 ай бұрын

This doesn't make any sense, your point is unclear

I understand that many people haven't experienced anything extraordenary ore any mysticle things in Tibetan Buddhism and with tantra. But many have, and dont talk about it...... Wasnt there a dimension to Sogyals abusive behavior and attracting followers ect, that seems different than in a traditional cults ( a non shamanic non tantric cults ) ?

@BeyondtheTempleVideos

3 жыл бұрын

I guess I'm one of the many who have, but that doesn't mean that my guru wasn't an abusive narcissist. And no, Rigpa is no different to any cult. He abused people and his senior students enabled and covered up the abuse. They used religious terminology to justify it. And he was truly deluded. He actually thought he was enlightened. But enlightened beings don't harm people. Once you know about cult behaviour, you can see quite clearly that Rigpa ticks all the boxes. More details on that in this video - kzread.info/dash/bejne/lqiJy9ehcdrKdaw.html

@signe8321

3 жыл бұрын

@@BeyondtheTempleVideos Yes I know. I know about Tibetan Buddhism an Sogyal. What I want say is, thay I do not think the magic that lamas ore Rinpoches have, that captivates so many, is divine ore sign of any divine authority. I was asking because I have experienced that this magic/ ore powers that come with tantric knowledge, also can be misused. Abuse happens on many levels in Tibetan buddhism and in Tantra in general. I have no dought in my mind that what you say is true. I have myself experienced abuse in Tibetan buddhism... I have also talked to you before... I am "preaching" that Tibetan Buddhism all together should leave the west, because we have enough insanity. We dont need any more.

@BeyondtheTempleVideos

3 жыл бұрын

@@signe8321 I don't think it needs to leave the West. I've gained too much from my practice to think that. I think it needs Western oversight over who sets themselves up as lamas - spiritual teachers should be registered and approved with some professional body before they can teach - and we need to leave the superstition behind - the black magic stuff that scares people. Mingyur Rinpoche seems to be a genuine Lama and Thubten Choren is another I would recommend. Also people need to be educated on the forms of manipulation and cult dynamics they may be subjected to so they can discern a healthy community from an unhealthy one.

@signe8321

3 жыл бұрын

@@BeyondtheTempleVideos Thats good that you have experienced some good stuff in Tibetan Buddhisme, I think. Ore maybe it wont last. I have never experienced anything genuine in Tibetan Buddhisme, all the way to the top. What I have been through with Tibetan buddhisme and tantra - especially with TB in my country is beyond words. I don't believe in black magic either. There really is no such thing. But I know that the lamas and Rinpoches gets transmitted tecniques to manipulate energy/ to heal/ how to acumulate psychic power. And that can be misused like any other tremendeus power can be misused. And it often does, especially when Rinpoches og Lana is a sociopat/psychopat can get away with it: when people are vulnareble. There is one other girl from Denmark, also have been put in an induced kundalini like state, just like me. Besides also being abused in other ways. You go there to seek help, meditation. And you get killed!! I was always oppose to the long promotional speaches ( promoting themselves, and their views) that all tibetan buddhist Rinpoches and Lamas goes arround the west doing. Why all that talk, that nobody really understands because it is often a total contradiction, instead of imiditely just teaching: the MEDITATION tecniques and practices of their tradition, the dharma and those particular views that follow.

@arabianbrahma

Ай бұрын

@@signe8321 In magic there is Right Hand Paths focus on morality, love and meditations. Left Hand Path is demonology, wrathful deities, etc. Stay away from Left Hand Paths like Tibetan.

All abuse must be punished, this doesn't put behind the fact that many women wants to be the choosen one, they seduce, provoque, plan etc. A maturwe adult woman "falling" under the spell of a guru? hahaha I don't buy that "it requires 2 to dance tango"

rognons pochés la brebis Sogyaleuse ! un boudiste qui sait Hisser le bout !

I always view Rinpoches or Lamas to be purified and enlightened souls. They are role models showing us the right path and morality. This is my expectation. Some of them make excuses in their talk stating that they are also human being and that they have flaws and weaknesses. To such a statement I disagree. If that is so, why the title and status of Rinpoche?They are at the higher level of human existence, far ahead then the ordinary people. Their conduct should be in line with their title, knowledge and expectations of the followers and the common people. The basic principle of Buddhism is that there is no enlightenment without a Guru. That way it becomes very important for Gurus to inspire and motivate disciples to the path of enlightenment. However, I do see and observe some Rinpoches involved in scandals of various kind (among which one of the worst is adultery) Such scandals shake my faith. In the 21st century world, religion does not get strengthen only by blind faith of people. There are logic and rationality that play important role in building the religious faith. I hope the lesson is learnt and scandals no longer be part of religious practitioners from now on.

More gossip? "They accepted it and covered it up" but they were stupid. What is your job here tutoring people?

Please give detailed examples ... why should i believe you ? ... what specifically are you talking about? Get down to the details ... just like you were in court! or your gonna get a 5 dollar fine for whining!

So you think you are the guru of yourself!!!

These experiences do not define his life that was spent inspiring and educating others. While people are hurt by this, what transpired cannot be fully understood by us mere mortals, especially the karmic elements that are part of God's plan.

don't throw out the baby w the bathwater

It's so sad to see how the Western world glorified the lamaism cult for years, and now the people suffer from the consequences😮 Please stop using "Budhist" to describe Tibetan Lamanism! China warned the world mors than 70 years ago about human abuse in the Lamarism, but was ignored by the Western world，until the recent years.