It's been really interesting lately to revisit all these old games, that the developers kept saying: "You think you want that, but you don't" and realizing that "No I do kind of want that". It gives an interesting perspective on what has been lost over the years, but also of course what has been gained.

@peeledapples4176

5 ай бұрын

Yep. GW convinced themselves that complex, crunchy, narrative rulesets like this just couldn't survive in a modern market. Turns out a lot of consumers do want that.

@valeclaw1697

5 ай бұрын

​@@peeledapples4176GW is incapable of accepting that a lot of what made the game less profitable was their own decisions with it, but hopefully TOW blows up beyond what they expect since it feels like they think it's sort of just gonna be a niche game.

@Bodom1after1midnight

5 ай бұрын

@@valeclaw1697 Unfortunately its impossible for TOW to "Blow up beyond what they expected" because no one can get any of the models. My LGS said GW told them new stock for starter boxes are up to a year away with the units releasing separately in summer, the hype will be gone by then.

@mogwaiman6048

5 ай бұрын

@@valeclaw1697 it is a niche game, like HH is. That's why it's a specialist studio game.

@philipbowles5397

5 ай бұрын

I do wonder how many players will, in fact, realise they don't want X after all. They brought back what amounts to 2nd Ed. Space Marine, and I at least rapidly realised that I don't want Yahtzee with toy soldiers these days. And as much as I'm looking forward to The Old World, I am seeing a lot of reasons for it not to appeal to people who didn't grow up with it. The gameplay is rather basic for the level of rules complexity involved, and while we all have stories of how hilarious it was when a misfire result on turn 1 blew up your artillery and ended up losing you the game, all you can really offer when asked "why is that random crap fun?" is shrug and say "Well, you had to be there". I see a lot of "it's not for me" comments. The base design of this edition is the best it's ever been in WFB, and I hope there's enough of an audience for it to do well (or at least for me to get games in, which I haven't managed yet), but the success of games like Age of Sigmar certainly argues that GW wasn't wrong to think that players would want a different experience (for all that they were wrong that AoS 1 was that experience).

I was sceptical, I was afraid of getting burned, fantasy was my thing back in the day. But..... I'm fully addicted

I'm glad that someone relatively new to the system is enjoying it. As a long time fan it really felt like we were being told "no one wants to engage with fantasy anymore, it was too complicated and no one liked it". But I loved everything about it, especially all the options in list building! I really hope they realise they really misread the room when they shut it all down.

@gstellar96

5 ай бұрын

I think the issue is that WH in general can flip between the two extremes of hostile and so welcoming, it's not even funny especially considering the internal grievances of Fantasy vs Sci-Fi and Warhammer Fantasy vs Age of Sigmar Imperium vs Chaos/Xenos. Makes mud slinging common between all the communities if you fall into a niche. Personally I like all of Warhammer so it is sad to see so much bad blood between everyone.

Played my first game as TK vs Brets last week. Had the Royal host rules so made my King a wizard. He immediately miscast and hurt himself much to my frustration. Next turn he rolled a 12, fired 13 str 2 magic missiles with no armour save at a unit of knights and killed 6 immediately. I still lost the game but the look on my opponents face when that happened was worth it.

I've never played Fantasy, but I listen to a podcast where the hosts have and one of them talking about picking out runes for a dwarf lord sounds epic. I don't mind the simplicity of AoS list building but sometimes that customizability would be nice to make a character feel yours.

@moof1315

3 ай бұрын

Which podcast?

Fun to hear the perspective of someone who didnt play the old versions. I have just literaly dusted off and counted the minis my old Woodelf armie. Looking forward to this. Pushing around squares and attacking flanks. It just scratches my brain in a cool way.

Lost touch with your content over the years then randomly stumbled on this, dear christ have I missed you and your enthusiasm! Really excited to have a new warhammer/hobby channel !

Great video Crendor! I really like hearing your opinions on the game as someone who started in AoS first. Most of the people making content for Old World right now are people who played Fantasy back in the day, so I really enjoy hearing a different perspective. Hope to see more Old World content from you in the future!

I literally was like, "huh i wonder if Crendor has made a video on Old World I kinda want to play it but im not sure. Me and crendor have similar views on warhammer ill check." then this video was exactly what i wanted. Thanks Crend

Thanks for your input, love the content and ill be looking out for more! Waaagh!

I'm so glad to hear you're loving The Old World! It's been an absolute blast, it brings me right back to that same time period. If you didn't know, there's a browser based way to play the game called Warhall that also ties directly to The Old World Army Builder that'll import your list. It's not amazing graphically but I think it'd be awesome to maybe see you do a league or something similar to how you do Blood Bowl. And if not, enjoy having the easy and free way to try out armies you don't own or play with friends long distance!

Glad to hear you’re loving it! I’m going Beastmen too.

Really enjoying Old World at the moment. Ruleset might not be perfect but it is still really fun. Glad you are enjoying it too!

This video is such great news. WHFB is my favorite. I would suggest looking into movement trays with circular slots so you dont have to rebase everything

When a wood elf box comes out ill be using it. Already got a good few of their units that had their models used for Sylvanneth or Cities of Sigmar fot a while. I do hope as time goes on, if The Old World proves to GW that its not as niche as they likely think it is, that some factions with REALLY old ass models get some refreshes lol or some of the legacy armies get made standard. I have a feeling a lot of them that are stuck on legacy likely are just because their armies still use most of the same armies in AoS of theyre about to get a new army equivalent in AoS (I.E. Chaos Dwarfs in AoS got mentioned by a respected leaker for 4e, and Malekith's dark elf faction the Ulgurothi have been set up in the background about as much as the Lumineth were)

@2dumd2live

5 ай бұрын

If lizardmen become a full Old World army rather than a Legacy one imma pick up the game for sure

@valeclaw1697

5 ай бұрын

​@@2dumd2livesame, they're also my second army for AoS and I have a good bit of models from the old line that can still work (though the only one I can think of that's really awkward is the Aggradons vs Knights because they're way, way bigger and prolly harder to fit on those bases)

@martinjrgensen8234

5 ай бұрын

The game won’t be any kind of meaningful hit. GW can’t supply enough product for it to attract any kind of volume of new players

@philipbowles5397

5 ай бұрын

@@valeclaw1697 Aggradons have oddly small bases for their size so would probably fit (but ranking up with those tails would be impossible) - the number of models you need is more awkward as the unit size is different. Basing is a bigger problem for Saurus - which hardly fit on 32 rounds and extend off the edge in three directions - who will be impossible to rank up, and probably for Salamanders as the Spawn of Chotec is much bigger. Kroxigor, oddly, fit on the same bases as 5th Ed. versions that are pretty much exactly half the size.

For being positive and sounding like a good egg you have earned my sub. Keep up the old world content bud

Same it's been consuming all my spare time

BRING ME MORE OLD WORLD! Thanks for the video Crendor!

The Old World has been a massive win for me aswell

Honestly back when Age of Sigmar came out I was pretty unhappy about it. Still am in a way. The game itself isn't the problem - its that its different to "Classic" Warhammer Fantasy to the point of being its own thing. Games Workshop disrespected the fanbase by cutting support for Fantasy like that. Age of Sigmar should have been its own thing alongside Fantasy as a 'bridge' between Fantasy and 40k. There's nothing quite like it. Ranks of soldiers, massive monsters, near-unkillable heroes and powerful spellcasters. You don't scratch that same itch with AoS.

@philipbowles5397

5 ай бұрын

AoS 1 was a genuinely awful game, but I do agree that AoS took - and continues to take - a lot of flak not for what it is or what it was in 2015, or even for the fact that fantasy was canned (which was going to happen with or without AoS existing - AoS was just a way to keep selling the models), but for the way in which it was done and for just how unutterably awful the End Times was both as a plot and in the disservice it did to so many characters and factions. To this day we still have a random High Elf introduced in 5th Edition as little more than Tyrion's love interest as the Goddess of Life, because some idiot on the writing team decided that as the Wood Elves weren't a popular faction the actual goddess of life should be eaten by a High Elf. The AoS character has become Ariel in all but name (wings and all), but because of a particularly poorly-devised plot point still bears the name of a High Elf to which she bears very little resemblance.

I’ve got 7 games in, three armies (Dwarfs, Brets, Warriors of Chaos). I started playing in 1993, so I have 11 armies, plus I am now building Tomb Kings. I went 4W/1L and two ties. So far, Warriors of Chaos are my favourite, but I have a lot of other armies to play. Especially Night Goblins, High elves, Slann, and Vampire Counts. My first RTT is late this month, I’m almost positive that I’m taking my WoC. Chaos Lord on Chaos Dragon decked out with a lvl 4 wizard on a flying carpet, with a very cheap bsb is I can stuff them in together. 1000 points in characters. I have no thoughts that I could win with only a thousand points of core/rare/special, but I’ll have fun. Squad of chosen. Maybe a giant. Some Warriors.

I haven't played nor seen ToW be played but I'm looking forward to trying out some dwarfs when / if they get a launch box!

good stuff dude :-)

I’m really glad you’re enjoying yourself. If you try out orcs & goblins, I hope they have the option of snotling pump wagons, because those things make me laugh.

There should be a word for "reverse nostalgia" - when people underestimate how good something actually was and don't take it seriously

@sarahhillary7698

5 ай бұрын

It’s called scepticism

@lordy6666

5 ай бұрын

You don't know what you have until it's gone.

@mogwaiman6048

5 ай бұрын

It was good for a narrower audience.

@86Corvus

5 ай бұрын

So it was better.

@Pihtorich

5 ай бұрын

@@sarahhillary7698 selective scepticism isn't really scepticism

If you play AoS consistently you could buy Old World movement trays that fit the AoS bases!!

@philipbowles5397

5 ай бұрын

If only. Unfortunately a lot of the base sizes don't convert. I was intending to do exactly that with my dryads - I really don't want to deal with buying, building and painting even more dryads - but you can't fit 32 rounds into 30 square movement trays even if you want to use open order permanently and never skirmish. I can't use base converters on my treelords for the same reason - the AoS bases are substantially bigger.

Now he knows why people were pissed when they got rid of warhammer fantasy. I remember as a kid wanting to play and soon I will once the stock comes back.

It's pretty good and fun I think

I still have my old Start Collecting! Seraphon grey. Time to rebase.

Have you looked into other miniature games that aren't GW? Malifaux is easily my favorite

👍👍

still waiting for my starter boxes 😓

I had the same thing with Warhammer Fantasy 6th edition, and there's no way I'm fully commiting to playing the Old World. Haven't tried to play TOW yet, but it feels so bland and fluffless compared to 6th edition. I have no fun browsing the army rules (not even the supplements) like when I do with 6th army books. It's just too good

@Gladedancer

5 ай бұрын

6th edition is still the best edition for us. I am glad people are enjoying TOW, but my group isn't switching over.

@philipbowles5397

5 ай бұрын

6th Edition is the core ruleset it's most similar to. I'd definitely have said 6th was the best edition before now, but although I haven't yet had an opportunity to get a game of Old World in it does seem to be an improvement in practically every way, and the way army list construction works is much more elegant (unit formatting, much less so - they could have taken hints from 40k10 in how to group and organise keywords).

Still working on assembling my TK :( I forgot how god awful these ancient models were.

Nostalgia bait for the grown-ups with disposable income. And I'm ALL IN!

*Broke gamer enters the chat* Sounds like my kind of game, but alas, prolly can't get the models. That's okay though, since I don't play outside of casuals 3D PRINTER: ENGAGE

@leovaeg

5 ай бұрын

great thing is you only need a few because of "base fillers" and ability to proxy

I used to play WHFB mainly in 8th ed, and I thought AoS from 2nd ed onward was WAY more fun than I ever had with WHFB. This video was really interesting to me. First of I find it hilarious that the two armies you have tried playing as were TK and Beastmen, because they were absolutely trash-tier bottom of the barrel bad back in 8th ed. I think they were down in like the 30% win rate bracket or something. 8th ed wasn't balanced at all, so it's very interesting to think they might be ok in a game that's so heavily borrowing from the old ruleset. I completely agree with your list-building take (though I haven't tried TOW yet), kitting out your heroes and figuring out your units made the pre-game prep very fun back in 8th ed. Though if I'm honest that was often more fun than playing the game. Regarding magic, full disclosure; My main army was Dwarfs. So i HATED the magic in WHFB. I felt like I was forced to pay for anti-magic in runelords/priests, and they still cost the same as a lv 4 wizard when they basically did jack shit in comparison. I picked up Vampire Counts as my second army partially just so I could try to enjoy the magic aspect of the game. But yeah, paying for a runelord only to have 3/4ths of a 40 man block die to dwellers below, purple sun, penumbral pendulum, lore of metal spells felt really bad. Putting hero/unit equipment with points-costs in the game is something I've always wanted, though I know It's a bit of a sour take in the AoS community. But I'm one of those people that want to see 40k's strength and toughness in AoS too, so we can have more varied unit roles and weapon profiles.

Interesting ♨now 🍒😃

4th ed AoS around the corner

Any thoughts on "linehammer?" That was my only concern after seeing some reviews after launch.

@heraissilly

5 ай бұрын

Linehammer?

@Redshaark

5 ай бұрын

You have to houserule the maximum length and just set it to 10. With that I had some interestimg games.

@heraissilly

5 ай бұрын

@@Redshaark but who would even want to go larger than like 10 or 12 anyways? Archers get line of sight blocked easily, and infantry will struggle to get any attacks in at all, not to mention they will get hampered by any terrain.

@heraissilly

5 ай бұрын

@@Redshaark NVM, i just looked at the rules again, and realized the entire fighting rank is able to fight, regardless of base to base.

The game can be the best since sliced bread, but almost no can buy it, and haven’t been able to since launch. This game is dead on arrival