"I'm somehow back at 40000 feet, without an engine having blacked out and come out of a fatal dive. However, no need to bail out, I have these enormous balls of steel that will help me land the Spitfire Superglider safely". Respect.

My great Grandfather flew Typhoons in 1944-5 he said he first flew at a indicated 590mph in a Spitfire mk9 in 1943 whilst diving to escape three 109Fs and the Typhoon regularly exceeded 600mph indicated in a dive, he lived until he was 82years old despite two crash landings and being shot down three times between 1943-45

@kubel83

2 жыл бұрын

May your grandfather Rest In Peace. Much respect to him.❤️

@25Wineman

2 жыл бұрын

I new RAF ground crew who all through the war listed to their pilots tell them that they where moving so fast that they almost pulled the wings off their spit.

@watsisbuttndo829

2 жыл бұрын

Your great grandfather was a steely eyed beast. I tip my hat sir!.

@marksarginson1916

2 жыл бұрын

600 mph indicated is unlikely. True airspeed, perhaps.

@brucelamberton8819

2 жыл бұрын

@General Melchett also interesting reading is the report from the RAF's speed test between a Typhoon, a captured Focke Wulf FW-190 and a Griffon-engined Spitfire. It was though that the fastest would be the Typhoon, followed by the Focke Wulfe, and the Spitfire would be bringing up the rear, but it turned out the Spitfire was the fastest (and considerably so), then the Typhoon and finally the Focke Wulf.

I've seen an old interview in which General Chuck Yeager himself said that he wasn't the first to break the sound barrier, he readily admitted that he was the first to break he sound barrier IN LEVEL FLIGHT. He absolutely agreed that a few pilots had indeed broken the sound barrier in souped up piston engine planes in steep dives before he did it in the X-1 on October 14, 1947.

@katherineberger6329

Жыл бұрын

I know that he agreed that "Wheaties" Welch exceeded Mach 1 in a shallow dive in a specially modified XP-86A before the X-1's Mach 1 flight, but the XP-86A wasn't a piston-engine plane but a swept-wing jet. It's physically impossible for a piston-engine plane to exceed Mach 1 because the propellers lose efficiency rapidly in the transonic regime. The RAE's recorded fastest piston-engine powered flight is Martindale's 1,000 km/h (Mach 0.92) dive in his Spitfire, and the FAI's accepted record is held by "Voodoo," a specially modified P-51 Mustang, at 533.53 miles per hour (855.41 km/h). The FAI record is for level flight over a specified course, and it's possible Voodoo could break Martindale's record if a diving flight were allowed under modern record-keeping.

@Rudeljaeger

Жыл бұрын

The Me 163 may also have managed to break the sound barrier

@RaptorRex352

7 ай бұрын

​@@Rudeljaeger yes, although since that was a rocket plane rather than a propeller plane, it would have likely had an easier time doing so without the drag of the propeller

According to Eric ‘Winkle’ Brown’s book ‘Wings On My Sleeve’, the dive undertaken by Tony Martindale that resulted in the loss of the prop & reduction gear which left the Spitfire with slightly swept wings was his second dive that day. The first reached M0.91 and he’d had to apply 80lb of force to the stick to recover from the manoeuvre. Brown stated that he’d had to use both hands to apply 60lb of pull in his own M0.86 dive and wouldn’t be able to exceed that so Martindale took it further as he was a much larger and stronger chap. Incidentally, it’s not surprising that Martindale passed out as his weight-reduced Spit hurtled back up to 40,000’ ~ he pulled 11G in doing so.

I am not qualified to comment on the reliability of the airspeed readings but I can state categorically that there is no sound like a Rolls-Royce Merlin on song.

@Doggeslife

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed. Listen to the music: kzread.info/dash/bejne/l6Gsj9WdfsmTfbw.html

@oliverbourne9599

2 жыл бұрын

In 1944 that Mk19 in Hong Kong will have been a Griffon rather than a Merlin. A different sound but just as awesome

@jackthebassman1

5 сағат бұрын

The Mk 19 Spitfire had the RR Griffon engine

The photo of what was left of that spitfire is amazing, how did he land that warped pile of junk?truly a gifted pilot

This evening I watched the Antiques Roadshow. A gentleman on there displayed his Father's medals and log book with aerial reconnaisance photos from ww2. Apparently low level photos were only safely obtained by high speed dives. The aircraft had no armament. They were very brave.

Almost, there was a strong feeling that more than 1 went through it & survived. My father flew a Mustang Mk111 for the RAF & the Spits were considerably faster in a dive. His whole plane was shaking so much he couldn’t read the instruments. More than 1 Spit literally broke apart too.

@beagle7622

2 жыл бұрын

I am talking not by choice or maybe by choice. In the film with Ralph Richardson ( The Sound Barrier , yes I know it’s a film, but a good one the beginning from memory shows a pilot in a Spitfire with the plane vibrating heavily) There were a number of unexplained crashes involving Spits where the think they may have tore themselves apart with the compression limit. I am not saying it did happen but there are theories they got very close.

Notice in the photograph of Sq Lr Martindale and three others, the most famous test pilot of all time Captain Eric Melrose Brown RN who also received the AFC for his momentous work on aircraft carrier aviation, which included the first landing of a twin engined bomber onto a carrier, the Mosquito, and after the war the first landing, and take off of a jet propelled aircraft, and recorded some 2700 carrier landings in his illustrious career .

@oceanhome2023

2 жыл бұрын

You are right this man is not only brave but a Genius. Are there any books about him ?

@ih302

2 жыл бұрын

@@oceanhome2023 kzread.info/dash/bejne/aqd_ks-TnqXeaZc.html What a guy and also, props to Reginald Mitchell... well done Sirs.

@jacktattis

Жыл бұрын

@@oceanhome2023 Wings on my Sleeve Testing for Combat Wings of the Luftwaffe Wings of the Navy Duels in the Sky They are some that are still available

What many people do not understand is that the local Speed of Sound is dependant on Temperature. Air Density has almost no influence on S of S. At 40,000 ft, the air temp is likely to be in the vicinity of -40 degrees, so the S of S is lower than at ground level, (763MPH @ 15 degrees C). Therefore, for a given groundspeed, the Mach number will be higher at higher altitude, due to the lower S of S, which changes by about 1.3 MPH per degree C. At 40,000ft the local S of S is likely to be in the vicinity of 690MPH. If the plane descends at a constant airspeed, the Mach number will fall as the local temp and local S of S rise. Many pilots were saved from high speed compressibility in a dive as the Mach number fell with the rise in local S of S.

If it really reached that speed or not , what surley impresses me most is the bravery that those men showed by trying these trials, and considering the tech in those years it was really something.

@Captndarty

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t really think it was all that brave considering the era. You just did what you had to do that was the culture. You felt safe as It was a state of the art aircraft and that’s just what you did back in those days. The world‘s become too soft today. Take NASA for example. I believe they’ve gone on record saying the risks that were taken in the Apollo missions would never be taken today.

@neilgriffiths6427

2 жыл бұрын

@@Captndarty Anyone who climbs into an aircraft and tries to do what has never been done before is brave, no matter then or now. Stop rubbishing people just because you are the 8 billionth bravest person on the planet.

@rogernicholls2079

2 жыл бұрын

@@neilgriffiths6427 I couldn't have said it any better mate, there's always somebody dragging others down.

@waynesimpson2074

Жыл бұрын

@@Captndarty I understand the ethos of your comment and whilst I don't flatly disagree; I think that these wonderfully skilled test-pilots, with a very good insight in to what they were provoking, were chosen for a reason. To battle against a Nazi airforce with matching performance is highly commendable whereby your fate is mostly decided by your own skill but to taunt the laws of physics is beyond reproach. As for NASA? What a bunch of cu~~s, risk assessment? They knew of the Morton Thiokol issue with the SR boosters and then later the 'likelihood 'of insulating foam debris damage, yet they still forged ahead. There was no wartime pressures or Presidential decrees to comply with with the Shuttle missions? 'The likelihood'? Is that the worst place to inhabit😆?

Yes, I'm so pleased your research was thorough. Someone else's earlier video never mentioned (beyonf Tobin) Martindale's M= 0.92 (p.50 in Capt.Brown's book 'The Miles M.52') and I also have known about Powle's 1952 incident. I do believe it because that version of the Spitfire wing was very suited to high speed - not the original shape nor the later Spiteful wing. In testing for the Miles M.52, a Miles Falcon was given a bi-convex wing, ultra thin ('the Gillette Falcon'), nearly elliptical, but with wing tips cut off diagonally along the line of the outer shock wave. Presumably, the elliptical wing of the Spitfire, though not solid was thin and was almost within the V-shaped shock wave from the aircraft's nose. PS. tests were later done on an all-moving tailplane for the M.52...on a Spitfire.

Supermarine developed an even faster model. Featuring an even higher performance version of the Griffin engine and the bubble canopy fuselage, this version - now known as the 'Spiteful' - featured a laminar-flow wing similar to that of the P-51 Mustang. This avoided the lack of rigidity that Mitchell's elliptical wing suffered at very high speed, and helped to reduce the problem of compressibility as speed approached the sound barrier. Sadly, with the onset of the jet age, very few were made.

@baselhammond3317

2 жыл бұрын

Did the Spiteful wing have a higher tactical /critical mach number?

@wbertie2604

Жыл бұрын

The mk. 19 Spitfire had a stronger wing too, even though it was elliptical, and high speed roll rates were much improved as a result. The Spitfire wing got redesigned structurally multiple times, though, the first service version being later Vs, but also separately on the IV (not put into service) and the VII and VIII and derivatives (and some but not all VI).

@wbertie2604

Жыл бұрын

@@baselhammond3317 no, it didn't. Based on testing on the Attacker, possibly a tiny amount lower, but it allowed for better performance 400-500mph, which was more important.

@stevengriffin7873

Жыл бұрын

GRIFFON engine.

@wbertie2604

Жыл бұрын

@@stevengriffin7873 apologies. 'Autocorrect' was 'helping'.

I'm impressed that these planes can take off at all, what with the massive pair of bollocks slowing them down. The greatest generation.

@techstuf4637

2 жыл бұрын

10,000BC..."Wow, what a pair of hairies Ugg's got to be rolling around on the stone rings he made. Fast forward to 2021AD....Ooga Booga...Me original, me make massive, heavy ball joke. 🤦🤷

@johndavis3399

2 жыл бұрын

@@techstuf4637 It was funny actually- Toms joke- Yes what a generation!

@techstuf4637

2 жыл бұрын

@@johndavis3399 Sure, but it's so overused all over the net. Betty White's version, being equally crude, and coming from a charming old woman, was hilarious.

@alfretwell428

Жыл бұрын

Got that right bro!

The stripped photoreconisence Spitfire flight is recounted in Eric "Winkle" Brown's marvellous book "Sings on my Sleeve" A must read for any aviation enthusiast!

@johndavey72

2 жыл бұрын

Yes . I'm not certain that Eric was ever noted for his singing ability !😅😅

Very accurate portrayal of these pilots exploits . And cements how fabulous an aircraft the Spitfire was ! Thanks .

I live in Newmarket suffolk , nearby is the old RAF Duxford aerodrome and new museum , and have the privilege of hearing that merlin engine sound and seeing that beautiful R. J Mitchel designed aircraft regularly - and it stops me dead in my tracks every single time.

@666bartman666

2 жыл бұрын

one very lucky person

@leeming1234

2 жыл бұрын

You may have seen my flight 3 years ago when my excellent pilot Barry Hughes allowed me to take control for a couple of minutes and I then realised why one of the ww2 pilots I had seen on television said that you didn't so much fly the spitfire as put it on like an overcoat and it flew itself. It's such a pity that Mr Mitchell died before he saw the results of his great invention.

I would call the Spitfire the Bradman of propellor flight. Both were the greatest of all time, both inspired their nations like no other and both had an average just under the magical number. Which is fitting for humble heroes.

The pilots notes on the Antiques Roadshow last weekend showed that his lightweight unarmed photo reconnaissance Spitfire reached close to 600mph in a dive. That means the airframe was better than nearly all the early jet aircraft. It certainly had a better limiting Mach number than the later P51 Mustang. The Spitfire was better than it had any right to be in this respect.

@Kevin-mx1vi

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed, the airframe *was* better than many early jet aircraft. Many years ago I knew a chap who'd been ground crew on the early Meteors and mentioned that an instruction to the pilots was "Don't turn too quickly or you'll find yourself doing 600mph without an aircraft".

@jackwills7092

2 жыл бұрын

I heard a spitfire pilot dived on a me 109 And had a loud bang his prop broke but he was over mach 1

@wbertie2604

Жыл бұрын

@@jackwills7092 over Mach 1, given the wing profile, is highly unlikely. The IAS may have been high, but the pitot we wouldn't be calibrated for anything so fast. You'd only be likely to get a 109 to M1 if the wings came off first.

@wbertie2604

Жыл бұрын

@@Kevin-mx1vi the Meteor had an issue at 0.84 meaning the wrong manoeuvre could result in something akin to an unrecoverable flat spin. It had a higher than desirable accident rate, some of which was due to having to send trainees up solo to qualify in single engine operation using a process that was unsafe. A lot of accidents were due to cold war issues and were things like pilots flying into terrain in bad weather. Overall the loss rate wasn't any worse than a lot of early jets and was actually better than some.

@Kevin-mx1vi

Жыл бұрын

@@wbertie2604 Thankyou, I guess that explains why the pilots were told not to pull on the stick too hard. And the idea of sending a trainee up solo to fly on a single engine in an early jet makes my hair stand on end !

Thank you for covering this episode on the Spitfire.

As a USN/USMC flight test engineer I think they made the correct decision. While aircraft flown out of Farnborough had precisely calibrated airspeed equipment a fleet aircraft would have a much more significant deviation in its equipment. Fleet instruments have no need to be precisely calibrated which would be beyond the capabilities of the local repair facilities. The .03 difference in Mach number is easily within the margin of error for fleet instruments IMHO.

Love your videos man! Absolutely fascinating! So well put together please don’t ever stop.

@TheNorthernHistorian

2 жыл бұрын

I appreciate that!

Best program Ant and Dec have ever done. Great upload all joking aside. Many thanks 👍

A guy that I worked with had been in the RAF Regiment in the war, guarding air bases. At one base used by the USAAF, a Thunderbolt pilot was doing acrobatics, and put his aircraft into a steep dive; when he landed the wings had ripped out of the fuselage.

@thethirdman225

2 жыл бұрын

So how did he land?

@douglaspealing5608

2 жыл бұрын

@@thethirdman225 without wings, probably quite quickly

@veritasvincit2745

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe Colin means something had ruptured at the wing root or twisted but not detached. Thunderbolts were known to pile on speed very quickly compared to some contemporary aircraft in a dive.

@thethirdman225

2 жыл бұрын

@@veritasvincit2745 Yeah, he probably does. I was just making a joke.

@wbertie2604

Жыл бұрын

@@veritasvincit2745 WW2 aircraft had wings that were bolted on, and the wing roots were faired in. If the wings had bent back a bit, then that fairing would be ripped open. That's probably what was being described. It'd be a nailbiting landing, as the pilot would be able to see this and be aware that the pickup points on the fuselage might also be bent so wing failure on landing would be very possible

The Spitfire was a Design Classic, never was so much owed to one man, and that man was R. J. Mitchell, a crying shame that he died of Cancer before he ever saw his masterpiece fly in action.

@jacktattis

Жыл бұрын

I think we forget Joe Smith who took the Spitfire right through the War Mitchell had gone well before it.

Great video, well done. Such an amazing aircraft the Spitfire was- perhaps the greatest of them all. IMO more recognition should be awarded posthumously to its designer R J Mitchell who in fact sacrificed any prospects of his own recovery to ensure this masterpiece was conceived

Nice one! I think the Spit broke the supersonic barrier, i wonder what other amazing aircraft RJ Michell would have come up with had he lived ?

@marklynch3149

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a keen spitfire fan, and I've often wondered the same.. I can imagine some incredible aircraft being built if Mitchell had lived.. 👍

@timhancock6626

2 жыл бұрын

If you look at other Reginal Mitchell designs you will wonder out of which hat he pulled the Spitfire. It's sad that he never knew just how good it turned out. It was about the only front line aircraft that stayed in the front line the entire duration of WW2.

@thethirdman225

2 жыл бұрын

*_"I think the Spit broke the supersonic barrier"_* Not possible. The energy created in a full throttle dive is simply not sufficient to overcome the massive drag increase as the aircraft approaches what used to be known as "the sound barrier". The clue is in the name.

Great video, well done, very good commentary, 👍.

@TheNorthernHistorian

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.

Great Movie ! Thanks. Your Northumberland / Durham accent reminds me that i fell a little bit in love with every girl who ever spoke with me using that lovely accent. Thanks for the memory.

Thanks for a great video!

@TheNorthernHistorian

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it!

great video, very informative!

My Grandfather was with 41 squadron when they were equipped with the Mk 12 spit, one of the tasks assigned to them was AA gunnery searchlight/ radar calibration, which involved flying straight and level at 20,000 feet for 20 minutes , after calibration had been completed (notified by radio), it was fun time. Full throttle, stand it on its nose and see how fast the 'blighter' would go , resulting in the ASI indicator needle hitting the stop. the control surfaces getting very heavy and after landing, a bo**ocking from the CO, " what the hell did you do to that aircraft, what was that noise" . My Grandfather was adamant the his colleagues told him they heard a bang or a boom, not that he did or that they would have known what it was. This little 'procedure' was banned after the odd "airscrew came off". Later in his career doing high speed dives in Meteors and Vampires my Grandfather noted and much later told me that the spit 12 was a damn sight nicer at those higher speeds. I always found it hard to believe that he broke the sound barrier in a Spit but did not wish to question him too much out of respect.

@steveshoemaker6347

2 жыл бұрын

Awesome my friend...l am a very old fighter fighter pilot my self...!

@williamirlam8758

2 жыл бұрын

@@steveshoemaker6347 I'm glad you enjoyed it, 41 squadron at that time was an operational training unit , my grandfather and his fellow up and coming pilots new the 12's were coming and had got it into their heads that, "they were the cats whiskers", to be getting these new "Super Spits with their Griffon engines", they watched the first one come in and land, and were somewhat deflated when a little WAAF got out!

@liverpoolscottish6430

2 жыл бұрын

@@williamirlam8758 It wouldn't be a WAAF flying, it would have been a lady from the ATA- Air Transport Auxiliary.

@williamirlam8758

2 жыл бұрын

@@liverpoolscottish6430 Thanks for that, I was repeating the it as my Grandfather had told me, except I omitted the word 'tasty' between the word, a and little, and the fact she was then whisked of to the offices mess.

@liverpoolscottish6430

2 жыл бұрын

@@williamirlam8758 I bet she was! lol ;)

I reckon he did hit Mach 0.96! I like these videos, keep up the good work!

@TheNorthernHistorian

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much

Well done , excellent video.

@TheNorthernHistorian

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Cheers!

I think he managed that speed. Higher altitudes mean thinner atmosphere means less friction. I reckon he clocked that speed while still quite high up in his dive

As someone that absolutely loves the Spitfire and its history. I think you have done a fair job telling the story about the near mach speed. But to anyone that isn't aware of these events in history, I think it would have been nice to have heard you mention the other aircraft that were tested for the same purpose, but were concluded as not up to the job. One that stands out in my mind is the P51 Mustang. Always compared with the Spitfire due to it's Merlin engine. (British Specification, may I add) . I know you said very briefly about it towards the end. But the Spitfire proved more stable and the fact it could glide, speaks volumes for its design.

@David-lb4te

2 жыл бұрын

All aircraft can glide, even the Space Shuttle.

@rmstitanic8163

2 жыл бұрын

@@David-lb4te I think you will find most aircraft will fall out of the sky without propulsion. They need the right design. The space shuttle was purposely built that way.

@beagle7622

2 жыл бұрын

@@rmstitanic8163 The Mustang went down like a brick. The wing which was one of the main reasons for its success also caused problems like what my father called the “Super Stall” & poor gilding performance. However at high levels it was in his terms “ the best” .

@julianneale6128

2 жыл бұрын

@@beagle7622 a 'Super Stall' cannot be performed by any of the aircraft in this story. For a super stall to occur, you need a very high tailplane, which these fighters didn't have...

@beagle7622

2 жыл бұрын

@@julianneale6128 That’s what they called it in the squadrons evidently. The Mustangs one real vice as far as my father was concerned. The RAF Mustang pilots all had a few hundred hours, experienced guys. He had about 500 when he went onto Mustangs . It was a high speed stall I believe & he said that he learnt to recognise it . It killed a new pilot in his squadron when he was there. My dad was not as story teller. He never talked about Ops , but happily talked about the plane. Somebody sent me a summary of the missions he flew while in France. He flew a MKIV a few times but not on Ops. They had no stall warning so had to be careful.

Great video thank you. Reconnaissance version of the Spitfire reminds me of the great BBC documentary with Dan Snow about RAF Medmenhan and operation Crossbow.

What an amazing video! The spitfire is such an amazing airplane!

Aaaaaah the sweet sound of Merlin. Coupled with the smell even better!

Excellent, no bloody annoying music. Interesting video

@TheNorthernHistorian

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

Very good video very interesting great pictures of the spitfire inside the cookpit , well done all

@TheNorthernHistorian

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

@ronaldfitzsimmons9902

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheNorthernHistorian pleasure to watch , once again thanks all.

As well as the advantage of thin wings, I've always thought that the design of the Spitfire fuselage produced natural area ruling that gave drag reduction at very high speed.

good video that lad

T hx 4 sharing just ❤ the Supermarine Spitfire.

@TheNorthernHistorian

2 жыл бұрын

No problem 👍

@robertphillips3078

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheNorthernHistorian have lost count how many ⏱⏰ l have watched "The Battle of Britain" wish l had the cha-ching 2 personally own a couple of Spitfires. Not 100% sure which Mks 9-12 Some research required. Definitely a counter rotation Griffon version. Also really appreciate the P51 Mustang. A aircraft that didnt come alive untill the mighty Rolls Royce Engine came 2 the rescue. Had the opportunity 2 purchase a beautifull framed Spitfire print very large about 10-12yrs back. Unfortunately did have the spare cash at the time.

Thanks for posting. It's nice to hear a northern accent. Both my folks are from Sunderland. 🙂

A Yank here and I must say that the Bravery of these pilots is unmatched and it could not have been done with out the technicans and scientists on the group ! All of these people deserve medals too ! BYW Have any propeller aircraft ever broken the Sound Barrier ????

@Purlee100

2 жыл бұрын

No Prop aircraft has ever gone supersonic.

@Dragonblaster1

2 жыл бұрын

That was the fastest limiting Mach number of any propeller aircraft.

@Wallyworld30

Жыл бұрын

The Los Angelas times reported that an American P-47 Thunderbolt traveled over 700 MPH in the same test the Brits did on the Spitfire. They took the P-47 to 40k feet and then dove at 45degrees. The speed is disputed since they didn't use proper speed indicators.

@michaelgray7847

3 ай бұрын

P47 700 MPH ...Dream on .​@@Wallyworld30

They were lucky that they were able to pull out of the dive.

@TheNorthernHistorian

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed they were.

@MauriatOttolink

2 жыл бұрын

Ole Hansen A later one, early jet didn't pull out. De Havilland lost a son.

I think this is a great little video 👉🇬🇧👈👉💎👈

The Northern tone sounds great for narration quite professionally presented subject. 👏👏👍

@TheNorthernHistorian

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you kindly!

'Winkle' brown and the RAE Test Pilots Tested the P-47,P-38 & P-51 at their Maximum dive speeds. So as to determine the Max Mach Number that could be used in operational conditions. The P-47 and P-38 had surprisingly low attainable Mach numbers. They Advised the USAAF to concentrate on P-51 production. and procurement.

@vascoribeiro69

2 жыл бұрын

Late P-47N had a critical Mach number of around 0.80. Early ones was around 0.69.

@mpetersen6

2 жыл бұрын

The P-38 was a far more draggy aircraft than most realize.

@lyndondowling2733

2 жыл бұрын

@@vascoribeiro69 REALY... with the same Aerodynamics.. Ie the Wing?

@michaelgray7847

2 жыл бұрын

P 47 mach . 0 71 . P 38 mach 0. 68 . Not good.

@michaelgray7847

2 жыл бұрын

@Hoa Tattis Eric Winkle Browns book . Wings on my Sleeve. P 51 0.78 P 38 0.68 P 47 0.71 .

Thanks for an interesting post. I wonder how accurate the pitot probes were in providing true air speed in such conditions and how they were calibrated outside the normal flight envelope.

According to german accounts a photo reconnaissance spitfire did hit the mach 1.0 barrier and it is assumed it was as fast as mach 1.01. The Spitfire came under attack from ME-109s over france and dived to escape, the ilot flew low enough to be fairly safe from most if not all of the area anit air defenses. A german officer had reported seeing the spitfire fly low into a canal, and infact flew under two bridges, having times in his report the times indicated that the spitfire had mach 1.0. The same spitfire actually broke appart with the pilot barely surviving but the pilot had managed to destroy much of his photo equimpent, and when taken into custody he was saluted and given extra good tratement by the luftwaffe for his "heroic speed" as they called it. I did read later that aviation experts have gone over the various reports at the time and found that the spirfire could not have travelled that fast, but they do belive it may have been as much as mach 0.75.

Thanks for a Great episode … I’m surprised that it wasn’t Eric Brown flying this Mission.. I thought he handled all the Mach Limit research ..

@michaelshore2300

Жыл бұрын

He did some, they all did, but eric says in his book he was not strong enough to pull out at those very high speeds

@jacktattis

Жыл бұрын

There were many involved

Didn't realise Declan Donnelly had a youtube channel.

Quite common for Tempest pilots to exceed 560mph in dives, but i find 690 very hard to swallow. 606 is hard enough considering the weight & power. Spits are just not strong enough, damn lucky the wings didn't tear off. I seem to remember Alex Henshaw saying he would put them into a 450 max speed dive, at which point they were out of control.

@rtreadwell7887

2 жыл бұрын

I believe that was indicated airspeed which would have equated to a higher true airspeed,; the disparity tending to increase with altitude.

@jameswebb4593

2 жыл бұрын

Alex Henshaw could barrel Roll a Lancaster .

@timhancock6626

2 жыл бұрын

Alex Henshaw was flight testing production squadron aircraft a lot of the time, so extremes of performance were not possible or desirable.

@jameswebb4593

2 жыл бұрын

An addenda to the Alex Henshaw involvement. He test flew the first of 300 Lancasters built at Castle Bromwich . The factory mainly built Spitfires Marks V , IX & XVI . which Henshaw would have test flown. The more advanced Marks XII , XIV , XIX all Griffin powered were built at Southampton. Ace Johnny Johnson considered that the Griffin powered should have had a name change other then Spitfire as their handling characteristics were different.

We were walking in a field near the memorial arboretum when the bbmf spitfire flew low over us and round the arboretum, then the pilot circled us in the field as he’d seen us taking pictures as he passed, our own personal show, stunning plane and sound

@markcatton1484

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, watching one swoop over the white cliffs with NO camera on me was so bloody annoying but the engine noise as it looped up was great.

Brilliant. 4:45 How was the Spitfire PR Mk XI airspeed indicator calibrated to ensure reliable and accurate measurements?

@leneanderthalien

2 жыл бұрын

was not

It is possible that he did reach that hi Mach number, but the Pitot tube was designed for the aircrafts normal speed range. It might have been influenced by super sonic air flows. Chuck Yeager, the second person to go super sonic. The first one was George Welsh in a prototype F86 three days before.

@SimonAmazingClarke

2 жыл бұрын

@Penelope Scott the F86 officially went supersonic only a few months later. If your interested have a read of a book called Mach 1, can't remember who wrote it.

I loved it when Thrust SSC broke the sound barrier on the ground. We need to push further and faster. It's what makes us move forward. We were always ground breakers in speed. Look at Concord utterly magnificent. What a plane to be proud of. 1 crash to be blamed on another planes debris on the runway. NOT CONCORDS FAULT.

I assume that the quoted Mach # was adjusted for the altitude(s) the speed was measured at?

Very good history of the Closest sonic boom piston engine for the spitfire and can you do the next history of spitfire highest altitude

@Spitfiresammons

2 жыл бұрын

@Hoa Tattis yeah that the history we like to hear

@Spitfiresammons

2 жыл бұрын

@Hoa Tattis maybe

690mph jeez thats quick with a prop in front!

With regards to the RAF Kai Tak Spitfire, it would be interesting to note whether the Speedometers where calibrated to National Standards and what was the accuracy and repeatability of them. If it was the case that the gauge was calibrated and the Spitfire had been just shipped from the factory we could say that this was indeed the new record. Usually certain gauges are classed accurate to +/- X mph or as a +/- percentage when manufactured, given the vibrations these aircraft would go through, gauge inaccuracy would increase over time!

@jacktattis

Жыл бұрын

They are or were world accepted.

Yes

The second Spitfire didn't reach anything near Mach 0.96. On board instruments were not made for that speed, and shown wild errors when nearing the speed of sound. Also the 980KM/h recorded by the Reggiane Re.2005 in July 1943 trials, by Cmdr. De Prato were not indicated by the on board instruments, but triangulated from the ground.

Spitfires constantly went over their supposed top speed in Dives with emergency super charger boost activated

The highest mach number attained by a Tempest 5. 0.87 .

Depends on how course you could set the pitch on the prop. The radiators on Spits are in the same location as P-47 dive brakes.😊

gods looking at the image of Martindales spitfire, that thing looks almost unrecognisable as a spitfire... looks closer to a hurricane at that point

"This research helped Chuck Yeager break the sound barrier in the Bell X1". That and the fact that we mysteriously cancelled our ready to go supersonic aircraft and then obligingly let the Americans look it over so that they could copy the tail plane!

@michellebrown4903

2 жыл бұрын

And let's not even mention giving jet engine technology to the Soviets who promptly put it into the Mig 15 , which outperformed any Western fighters of the time.

@markmclaren3836

2 жыл бұрын

The cancellation if the Miles Supersonic Test aircraft was decided upon by a solitary British Civil servant who decided, on his own, that test flying a potentially supersonic aircraft was: " too dangerous and likely to result in loss of life" which overlooked the fact that 2 pilots in the High-speed test unit had already crashed and died whilst flying and researching High-speed flight. Thus this particular fool of a man handed the prestige of cracking the sound-barrier to the Americans .The British public service have been known to take some stupid decisions at times and this was one of them. The Miles test aircraft was almost ready to fly and commence testing. What a stupid decision.

@iststeve

2 жыл бұрын

@@michellebrown4903 socialist government, sympathetic to communism.

@Purlee100

2 жыл бұрын

@General Melchett What would you expect, they were the same people who would not fund the renewal of his patent for the princely sum of 5 Pounds!

@Deepthought-42

2 жыл бұрын

@@iststeve …Let’s not forget Philby, Burgess, Maclean, Profumo and other members of the “establishment” who also did SO much for Britain!

i doubt the highest speed in the spitfire as there was no propellor or frame damage. excellent video

@jacktattis

Жыл бұрын

Why doubt it?

And this is why we have the Great in Great Britain...for all time

One correction the Wright Brothers were not the first heavier than air powered flight. That had happened ten years prior by yet another French man Clermont Ader. It however had no control surfaces which the Wright flyer sort of did. They tried wing warping with some success but the idea was eventually abandoned.

Interesting

Small bit of info - Seletar is pronounced with the stress on the second syllable and is more like Seleeter. Good video - lots of interesting information.

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ It’s to go with the supersonic MOSQUITO

No matter how fast it rotated the propeller was a Wall of Steel that could not be overcome

That was extremely interesting. As the Mosquito was the fastest propeller plane during the war I believe it would have been considered for these tests as well. But considering it has an all wooden airframe there was possibly some doubts as to its strength. The conversations about all this at the air ministry would have been very interesting.

@julianneale6128

2 жыл бұрын

@Hoa Tattis I thought the Do335 did enter service, on a small scale?

@darkknight1340

7 ай бұрын

​@@julianneale6128The Do 335 was definitely faster than the mosquito,reaching 473 mph in level flight.

My dad was in a Spitfire squadron as part of the ground support crew. As an enthusiastic participant, dad was convinced they could touch the speed of sound in a dive, they were the best plane ever built as far as he was concerned. Perhaps the pilots mistook the mini-booms from the propeller as an indication of speed?

That was Sqn Ldr Tony Martindale attached to RAE Farnborough In a Spitfire MkXI He was testing transonic flight when his engine ran out of control He lost his spinner and he was flung all over the sky, passing out. When he came to he was at 40000ft no engine Wings Bent up and he then glided back 20 miles the Farnborough His Machmeter showed Mach 0.92

The Spitfire was not an especially durable aircraft. The P-47 not stripped down either for example, would go into compressibility in a frightening short period of time if the nose was put down as repeatedly recorded. But it never bent or broke. I don’t know how its possible to mention this and not mention both the P-47 and the P-38. If the special airspeed indicator was linked to air pressure as the standard A/S indicator is then its was not reliable in compressibility. And the Merlin had a reduction gear on the propellers to keep the propeller RPM down to avoid the tips and more of the prop going supersonic in normal flight. Its also dependent on temperature and altitude. AND once in compressibility its impossible to pull out until the aircraft got low enough that the air density increased to the point that the drag slowed the aircraft out of the compressibility range. It DID take a lot of guts to do this and a tip of the hat to the pilots. The reason Chuck Yeager was able to exceed the speed of sound and survive was the he and the engineers changed the horizontal stabilizer to a stabilator IE the entire airfoil moved like on a moder jest aircraft, even airliners. Without this mod super sonic flight was basically impossible. This gave the F86 in Korea an advantage over the conventionally tailed Mig15. Swept wings were not needed as shown by “Glamorous Glennis”, the F104the X-15 etc. But it DOES work better.

The Thunderbolt could dive with both the P-38 and the Spitfire, but few remember according to the P-51 Flight Manual the never exceed absolute top speed limit in a Mustang was 505 mph...

Vrooom!

Powell's ASI was broken as a result of the high speed dive, so it's very difficult to discern if the recorded airspeed of 690 mph was accurate. Some machine the Spitfire!

The P47 was frequently use at very high speeds (probably close to 1000km/h) during hunt on Me 262's over germany (Spitfires was nevers use because had a low range) , and was able to fly FASTER in dive as a me 262 who was limited at ~950km/h from tail design defects who make this aircraft totaly uncontrolable in transsonic speeds...but "almost break the sound barrier" for the Spitfire is a false assertion: the sound speed (mach 1) is at 1224km/h at sea level and 1153km/h at 5000m altitude and the speedometer use on the WW2 aircrafts was unable to measure the real speed over 900km/h...i did use metric for the numbers because mph is not international allowed , but only Knots = nautical miles per hour (who is metric), or km/h) and mph are only use from Brits and US, never from continental europe countries...

@johnbrewer8954

Жыл бұрын

No it wasnt.

Is that War Thunder that you used for the CG-animated reconstruction?

@TheNorthernHistorian

2 жыл бұрын

No. It's Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020

Peter Spurdle dove his spitfire during a battle going maybe through the sound barrier and loosing a wing doing so.

@aorakiboydog

2 жыл бұрын

@N O Y B Hi, the Me109 was on his tail so Spud dove estimating his speed to be around 650 mph then one wing departed leaving a massive hole Peter bailed out , he did say to me that he was on the verge of going supersonic …..with a smile , obviously with a big prop out front impossible and brake up would occur ,he had fear of diving an aircraft again. My Dad and Peter were close friends he was always uncle Peter to me, he had several reels of wind up moving pictures of dog fights and on ground guys being guys! He wasn’t interested in flying again, I should have pursued taking him up in the Yak now how great would that have been. Thanks for replying too many people forget these amazing people he was my hero as I was growing up……produced some nice vodka in later years.

Yes I'll believe it, and its 112km/hr over so its not like a smidge. Thanks for the vid

I have a childhood memory of a film about these spitfire tests. In the film it was said that beyond the sound barrier the flight controls worked in reverse. The his would have been mid 60s, but I can't recall the title. Regarding the validity of speeds, a similar situation befell the GWR loco City of Truro in 1903. The guards timing log of the trains run show that it was certainly possible it surpassed 100mph, but it was discounted as an 'unofficial timing' !!

@cossiedriverrs

Жыл бұрын

I seem to recall that they discovered control reversal at very high speed, and it was solved by reskinning the elevator with aluminium, rather than canvas?

@robertbate5790

Жыл бұрын

@@cossiedriverrs Rings a bell, thanks 👍👍

Only the British would be so ''Honest', and overwhelmingly pleased with themselves, for being so.

@GSD-hd1yh

2 жыл бұрын

No point in claiming something that isn't verifiably true, the only person you are deceiving is yourself.

I wonder if this information went to Miles aviation which lead to the thin wing that bell used in the X1 supersonic plane

You have to factor in that the speed is dependent on air density. I think that speed, or something very close it was in fact achieved in the far east.

@thethirdman225

2 жыл бұрын

Temperature. But it didn't happen anyway.

Airspeed indicators use pitot tubes which may be affected by shock waves especially with propeller driven aircraft so who knows?

Yep😊

I read somewhere that a propeller driven aircraft can never break the sound barrier because of the propeller.

@oxcart4172

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think that that's true. There have been a couple which might have done (The Republic Thunderscreech and the 'Machbuster' racer) but didn't finish their flight testing

@thethirdman225

2 жыл бұрын

@@oxcart4172 The P-47 never did it.

@oxcart4172

2 жыл бұрын

@@thethirdman225 Where did I mention the P-47?

@thethirdman225

2 жыл бұрын

@@oxcart4172 You didn’t but it usually comes up.

@alby1o1

2 жыл бұрын

@Oxcart . In the early 90’s I was talking with a WW2 veteran who served in the RAAF . At the end of the war he was stationed in Japan & he told of a rear propeller plane which he believed was capable of the speed of sound . I think it could have been a Kyushu J7W1 but I have also seen illustrations of a flying wing in an aircraft book years ago . He said the Americans destroyed these planes after testing them & said the reason was the jet age was here .

No prop plane of WWII vintage was "almost supersonic". NOT EVEN CLOSE. What tripe.

I think that, on the balance of probabilities the Spit did reach a speed of Mach 0.96

@riazhassan6570

2 жыл бұрын

Just for interest-how did you balance the probabilities?

@pierremainstone-mitchell8290

2 жыл бұрын

@@riazhassan6570 Knowledge of the aircraft and it's capabilities. However, if you prefer, I think that it's more likely than not that the Spit did reach a speed of Mach 0.96

@leneanderthalien

2 жыл бұрын

@@pierremainstone-mitchell8290 the most common flights at such high speeds was made with P47's during hunts for me 262's: the P47 was probably the fastest ww2 propeller aircraft in dive of all times, was able to fly FASTER in dive as a me 262 without damage (the me 262 was unable to fly faster than ~950km/h because deadly loss of control caused from a tail design fail... The Spit was never use in such conditions because was a low range aircraft...

@pierremainstone-mitchell8290

2 жыл бұрын

@@leneanderthalien Whilst I take your point the question asked was whether viewers of the video thought that the Spit reached a speed of Mach 0.96. On that basis the performance/use of any other aircraft, whilst interesting, is, to be bluntly frank, not relevant to the question asked. As I wrote in my original comment - "I think that, on the balance of probabilities the Spit did reach a speed of Mach 0.96" and I stand by that observation!

Heard somwhere Powles could see the telltale clouding on the wing leading edge during his dive in the XIX. Can someone verify this? If it is true, it might indicate that indeed he was close.

Interesting but a stupid question, how on earth can anyone know whether it reached that speed? even the pilot only had the ASI.

Yes of course it did no problem best plane ever made 👍👍