I was not expecting to get such an introduction. Thanks

@MXG000

2 жыл бұрын

You are the MAN when coms to mobos and ram .

@nucphyschem1

2 жыл бұрын

how is this not pinned by Jay or Phil!!! Love your channel man such in depth knowledge and willingness to share it!!!

@Xiao_PP

2 жыл бұрын

Good on you mate well done

@marcogenovesi8570

2 жыл бұрын

I guess you are famous now, lol

@MythWarpathIX

2 жыл бұрын

The myth himself is showing up :D

This is why i love the Tech KZread community, getting together to spread the message and help us and the manufacture's make things better

@KingsBloodGaming

2 жыл бұрын

Yea bro me too

@CodeMonkeX

2 жыл бұрын

It's more helpful to hold the manufactures' feet to the fire. Without these channels covering this ASUS would blame the users for years before they acknowledge that there is an issue and fix it.

@MXG000

2 жыл бұрын

@@CodeMonkeX it happened to me 10 years ago with z68 . My asus motherboard suddenly did not power up . I changed everything (cpu,ram,gpu,psu,case) and the same i contacted them they said it's user error. After few weeks many people had the same issue , but it was too late because i destroyed the motherboard . I bought another motherboard from gigabyte and it worked until now .

@OuijTube

2 жыл бұрын

This should be a recall

@pinky83mp

2 жыл бұрын

Noone says what everyone thinks... they did it with dollar signs in eyes on purpose...

A HUGE thank you for these 2 videos about the ASUS Hero board issue. After this vid I inspected mine (haven’t installed it since I am waiting for DDR5 modules) and sure enough the capacitor was installed BACKWARDS. New Egg RMA was flawless and is on its way back. Looks like back to waiting for the replacement which is a lot better than a fire hazard for me and my family ! You have saved my new 12th gen system at the least and possibly my home - sincere thanks. 👊🏻

@edsayswhoa4365

2 жыл бұрын

I want to order one but scared too now. It's seriously expensive and want to ensure I'm getting the right non malfunction board. Anyway to contact new egg to make sure I'm getting the right batch.

@robdklun6868

2 жыл бұрын

@@edsayswhoa4365 I recently just bought one this Monday, I checked it, and it’s a completely different chip on it. This was ordered on March 7, 2022. I haven’t used it in a pc yet.

Thank you so much for this. I sat down to start my build today, and was looking something else up about this motherboard before adding components to it and stumbled on to this video and Buildzoid's. Mine has this defect! Luckily I'm still in in the Newegg return window. Saved me a big headache if I had either gone all the way with a fail to POST, or even worse, it had caught on fire.

@generalpopcorn6427

2 жыл бұрын

Ha! Congrats on catching this in time!

@brujahlenerius

2 жыл бұрын

Bullet dodged!!

@gingersquatch9844

2 жыл бұрын

If you have some soldering skills, why not contact ASUS and make a short video of flipping the cap for testing field repairs of this defect?

@JonnoHR31

2 жыл бұрын

@@gingersquatch9844 If he does that he likely voids his warranty, which is pretty important when you already know you have a defective board!

@fmesposito

2 жыл бұрын

@@gingersquatch9844 At this price point there’s no reason for any of us to have to try that and to void the warranty. Not worth the risk when the motherboard is a key component tied to all these other hard to get components.

Can imagine how that conversation with asus support would go. “Hi, how can I help you today ?” “THE STRIPE IS ON THE LEFT!!NEED NEW BOARD!!”

@vibonacci

2 жыл бұрын

Asus: "Should have bought the ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME GLACIAL you cheap ****"

@Link200767

2 жыл бұрын

@@vibonacci that or "not my problem but we will process your RMA"

I have a few things to input on the electronics manufacturing side, as someone who has worked for 4 different companies in the US. That style of part usually comes in tape and reel, not stick fed, meaning all parts SHOULD have been been loaded to industry standard facing. Sometimes they are backwards. Not all PnP machines have the level of per piece top scan, older ones just verify that the part is the right dimension. Most of the manufactures in my region use the high end machines for Tier 3 builds- Medical, Military and Aerospace or "People die if we fail". For the most part, I did not see a pre-reflow digital scan of boards, barring prototypes and first revision runs, instead you inspect every board by eye versus a drawing or existing photographs. Unless ROGs manufacturing partner is VERY different, they will follow similar practices. Heck that was SOP for a customer whos cheapest circuitboard was 7K USD per unit and most expensive was 71K USD per unit.

@matermsalpha

2 жыл бұрын

@jampowerval Yes, totaly with you. From my experiance in the automotive sector in the EU, stuff like this is usualy rare but hapens. PnP for those boards I would guess do not use 100% component level orientation check since they are suposed to be in the right direction in the tape or reel. Usualy the check is done with a post reflow Optical inspection where a Picture to Picture part comparison is done automaticly and variarions are to be doulble checkt by an operator (if safety critical usualy even two). So my gues would be that some parts sliped throu the visual post inspection. Some proces improvements might be in order to prevent this in the future.

@poppyrider5541

2 жыл бұрын

That's even worse then if there is a standard for orientation in the pack. It means that it's not a batch number issue anymore. Strange that it's just happening to one board though.

@DuneRunnerEnterprises

2 жыл бұрын

@@matermsalpha Correct.That was my job,being once operator,and then - programmer of an AOI machine.The polarity check SHOUD be done on all devices that have polarity... BUT...This is a BIG board ,and it WOULD take a LONG time to check it. Usually what's going on is tha 'First article' pcb it throughly checked by QC person,and its then ,that based on this ''FA'' board an AOI machine program is created. I would gess,that the boards wasn't checked 1 by 1,but probably ony evry 5,or ,evry 10. Coud there be a small reel with a tantal Capacitors,turned 180 degrees ? Easy! It on an AOI machine,it's program,and it's operator to catch it !

@AzziesPersonalRecordings

2 жыл бұрын

I did a fair bit of repair on electronics like this by hand while in the military on boards from the 60s to the 90s. I guess we got lucky that none of our parts in the tapes were ever backwards.

@joeweideriii1

2 жыл бұрын

Was going to say all of that since I spent time as an SMT Line tech running the machines that PnP parts. Also its important to note that not every board went through an AOI to check for proper polarities.

Appreciate these PSA type videos, especially because you go into detail about how issues like this can happen.

I love your rants! You were spot on here with every point as well!

Thanks Jay and Buildzoid, I have this board and my stripe is on the right, you have given me some peace of mind now, this is why we need Tech youtubers or else companies would just hide this type of stuff

@cpopte

2 жыл бұрын

Check out "tech youtuber" linus tech tips talking about this. He doesn's because Asus is paying and sponsoring him. Tech youtubers are just ... company's bitch. Whoever sponsors them - they promote.

Perfect timing! Thanks J can’t wait to hear the reason since I just got one.

@Audience_of_1

2 жыл бұрын

Hopefully it doesn't break

@Gremlin256

2 жыл бұрын

Good luck to you ...

@diabolicfish4424

2 жыл бұрын

hopefully it works. good luck, man.

Jay, thank you so much for bringing this to light. Or at least helping bring it to light. I would not have known about this issue without you! Just sucks I have to send my board back before I even used it

Great video and perfect wrap up message. Good to see someone so well known take a humble part in taking care of his PC community. Keep doing what you do Jay.

As someone who works in manufacturing myself, I can say that often times those inspection cameras can lose calibration. This can be caught early by running challenge parts through once a day or once a shift depending. Then you can retrain them from there.

Yep, Backwards capacitors are a real bane, and when they fail, they do so 'spectacularly', and it can happen to anyone, be they a major manufacturer or a component level self builder. When going for my Electronics degree, I blew up a capacitor in a variable power supply I was building in the lab. Turns out, I'd hand-soldered it in backwards, a simple, easy mistake - but the loud BANG makes it impossible for the rest of the lab not to know what you've done. I wasn't the only one either. It happens, and like you said Jay - it's how the Mfg handles the mistake when it's made, that matters.

@CesarinPillinGaming

2 жыл бұрын

knowing asus, they will "release a bios fix" XD

So, I've had this motherboard sitting in my apartment for a few weeks now waiting for some DDR5 ram to become available. Just checked the capacitor and... it's upside down. Thanks for the video. I guess I'll start the return process. :(

@DavidSchwegler

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds like the ddr5 shortage was a blessing in disguise! :)

@zengamer21

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavidSchwegler For sure.

@justinscott5164

2 жыл бұрын

I’m in the same boat but I just got ddr5 in yesterday checked my motherboard and it’s indeed upside down I’m going to see if best buy will let me exchange this is really disappointing because I waited so long to build this because of the ddr5 shortage

Community collaboration. That's what it is all about. Great teamwork. As said in video, dissemination of the information is now key. Great job, great video! Thank you.

At my workplace I usually inspect all first batches of PCBs of new products(sometimes someone else when I'm busy), there's a checklist and one of the positions - things to check, is to verify if polarized capacitors are soldered the right way around. And anyone with minimal experience will know what the line on electrolytic/radial caps means(negative) and what it means on rectangular A/B/C/D/E packages for tantalum and polymer caps (positive). I am amazed how it went thru unnoticed in such a huge corporation. The worplace I work is a small 100 personnel company.

@Arek_R.

2 жыл бұрын

Oh regarding the pick and place machine, yes it can doiuble-check polarity of the picked part, but before it has to be programmed, if it was programmed incorrectly then the pick n' place machine will accurately misplace all components. BUT it's not exactly needed to verify polarity of the picked part, those are usually loaded onto a tape in one specific orientation, it is safe to assume that they will be right way around, though there could be some error in tape loading on capacitor manufacturer's side. ... Jay just said that later on, damn Jay you smart beast xD

@ronaldsweenson798

2 жыл бұрын

I see big levels of oversight like this in all levels of manufacturing. It mostly come down to "the next guy will catch it or the next guy will see it" seen it for d1.9 building projects seen it on aerospace projects. No one wants to raise the red flag these days.

@test321456abc

2 жыл бұрын

yes same here kinda standard. First off / Last off but a lot of operators will not spend the time to check and assume the machine picked anything wrong up

Lovely how much carnage one simple misplaced component can wreak havoc. Guess someone placed the reel wrong into the PnP machine. Still surprized they did go through QC.

@insu_na

2 жыл бұрын

Pure speculation: They might've turned off the automatic test for this component because they're placing caps from several different manufacturers in that spot, and maybe their PNP QC machine can't be configured to allow for multiple different correct "photos" of these parts, so instead of having the QC machine reject every mainboard that comes with a cap that is not Manufacturer A they bypassed QC for that particular cap and now when someone loaded the PNP machine the wrong way the consequences are felt

@DrakkarCalethiel

2 жыл бұрын

@@insu_na Maybe that or ASUS disabled it for more throughput. Highly doubt, but ya never know.

@johndododoe1411

2 жыл бұрын

@@insu_na Reels can't be loaded backwards, the components wouldn't unroll and can't be popped out of the tape. More likely is that the capacitor manufacturer doesn't promise a particular placement on the tape and the assembly plant didn't consider that this particular type of chip capacitor is a polarized component to check, treating it as an unpolarized MLCC (those have no marking and go in either way, and can be the same physical size too). This makes it a 50/50 coin toss if a board gets it backwards. Same thing could have happened for a diode, but everyone knows those have a polarity that must be checked.

@42zooter

2 жыл бұрын

Yep! I’ve seen it in manufacturing many times

@DrakkarCalethiel

2 жыл бұрын

@@johndododoe1411 Makes sense, didn't thought about that at first. So the only way this could have happened is at the factory of the cap MFG.

Two really good videos on this, very insightful and the sort of thing enthusiast's should be demanding of content creators. We all have to solve problems in builds, and some people are unreasonable with manufacturers, imagining they should get things right 100% of the time. If I've ever had an issue with a new component I couldn't fix, I list all my problem solving, am super polite and complimentary, and issues are always resolved very quickly, often with thanks for highlighting and helping the manufacturer head a problem off at the pass. I like these sorts of videos.

AWESOME!! thanks for the update,,this is huge for me..really appreciate it guys.

It's great to see Asus come out so quickly and acknowledge the issue and it turns out buildzoid correctly identified the issue, which made sense when comparing the failed bored to one's that hadn't failed. So Jay, you're right in saying we should listen when buildzoid speaks up. For those that haven't heard yet, Asus is doing a replacement for affected boards.

One of the reasons is that you have to set up the optical inspection machines to actually ‚know‘ what to check for. This means that a technician has to teach the machine what to look for to assess whether a part has been placed wrong (e.g. upside down, skewed or offset). Either by calibration, manual set up or by process of training a computer vision algorithm or machine learning system. What can happens is that a set up step is missed during the initial production run e.g. check the polarity of the capacitor. If the optical inspector isn’t told to check the polarity as well then parts with incorrect orientation aren’t detected and pick and place machines also can’t rotate them to their correct orientation as well. Things like those should usually be ironed out during the usual pre production runs those are done exactly to root out issues like this. The current supply issues probably lead to fewer test production runs prior to SOP as well given that parts are valuable and hard to source as well

@Numfuddle

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheInfidel_SlavaUA no, someone has to tell the machine once that this is a capacitor, that the polarity matters how to determine the correct orientation etc. then the machine can check it automatically afterwards

@Numfuddle

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheInfidel_SlavaUA we’re talking about two different sets of checks. one is done on the level of individual components while they are being placed during the pick and place step before soldering. The reference picture check is done after soldering to check if the soldering process step was OK.

@Numfuddle

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheInfidel_SlavaUA you want to make sure that all components are placed correctly before the soldering step ideally during pick and place. It’s easier to fix such a fault before the components are soldered to the pcb

@ChristopherHindefjord

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheInfidel_SlavaUA A checksum based on pixel information doesn't really work here (at least not an conventional checksum). The noise in the image would mean that you'll never get two, bit-for-bit, identical images. And even if you could, somehow, get rid of the noise (perfectly, and with the exact same color and light etc, each time) the component placement have some tolerances: The component might be placed up to 1mm (depending on size of the component etc, but for this capacitor I think a 1mm tolerance seems reasonable) off in either direction, without any issues. So there's a good chance that the image of the placed component wouldn't be identical to the reference. A step up from a checksum would perhaps be a difference (like XOR‽) check, and if the calculate difference is off by a certain per cent there's an issue. Far from bullet proof but better than just a checksum, and probably less computationally heavy than more advanced checks. (This should, in theory, catch reversed components) Even better is perhaps some kind of image recognition that could identify position, rotation, labeling etc, but that requires more processing power (and time?).

Very nice, glad someone got to the bottom of what's causing it and a fairly easy way to avoid it. I hope this situation also puts other manufactures in check when it comes to QC, even though this isn't an isolated incident this past two years. Just make you think what other future or current products haven't gone through proper QC.

great video, thanks so much... You and your team rock!!!

Jay, Thank you for sharing and putting out there to your audience. Might not win any brownie points with Asus, but thanks for looking out for the common users and your base.

@aosikadlihe8472

2 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure they might even be happy, since the more people know about this, the lower the chance of something going really wrong and them having to pay for it (e.g. house burning down because of this)

Great job, Jay. I really liked your up and personal message to Asus. I'm an Asus fanboy, and I hope they do the right thing for those people affected. Product dependability, inovation, and support is paramount to customer loyalty. I hope they heard you.

Excellent informative vid Jay. Thank you. A Happy New Year to you and your loved ones!

Well, this is timely. Just about to build on this board and saw all the fire warnings. Just checked my board and cap is wrong way round! This is going to be pain to resolve but at least Jay and others got me the information before I built so at least my house won't burn down! Thank you Jay.

There were some speculating that this happened due to a known marking problem, that tantalum caps usually has markings on negative side and ceramic caps has on positive sides. Tantalum and Ceramic caps both look similar, so it could have been unclear whether the marking are supposed to sit right or left if you didn't know extensively about the part, and there could have been someone didn't have luck flipping a coin.

Jay, Buildzoid said he'd love to have a board to test what way the currant flowed on the board, to see if he was right. Seeing as you do have one, maybe check to confirm if yours is mounted correctly. I' m sure he'd like to know the answer. If you wanted to do another follow up vid on this showing how to use a multi-meter to check the board as the comments I've read here have people confused about just eyeballing the capacitor. Two quick tests on the board would make it clear, 1- check the flow on the board. 2- check the polarity of the cap.

@Zalagar619

2 жыл бұрын

You can see in both his videos, his capacitor is installed correctly. Thats why he said he's comfortable using it in his personal build as a backup now. The correct orientation showed in his video is of his own personal board.

@harkonblood6870

2 жыл бұрын

@@Zalagar619 Have you watched buildzoid's vid on this he pointed this out and he still said he wanted to check to see if he was right. I did say myself reading a lot of the comments here people still seem confused. I clearly understand the capacitor is on correctly on jay's board the checks are to prove the theory correct. [Some comments say that the printing on the cap can be wrong and it happens a lot]

@Zalagar619

2 жыл бұрын

@@harkonblood6870 Yeah I guess your right. Although I'm pretty sure he is spot on as the only ones that have failed have all been with the capacitors the wrong way, so printed wrong or actually reveresed, only the reversed ones seem to be the ones that have failed so far. But I see what you mean. Meant no hate, was just making sure you knew that the one in the video was his.

@harkonblood6870

2 жыл бұрын

@@Zalagar619 no hate taken mate. I have watched all 3 vid's and Buildzoid keep repeating he really wanted a board to rest himself to prove he was right. If jay felt like a 3rd vid and answered buildzoid's question and maybe help other's in the comments who have the board I though it would be a good thing. He has a good board, he readings would show people what they should get if they did the same checks.

Have just bought a z690 hero board it arrives Thursday I’ll be checking it straight away cheers for the info bud

Thanks for the important information.

Put an electrolytic that is polarized in backwards, yep... that would do it! Good catch to Buildzoid!

Thanks Jay! I and all the other 4 users of this Mobo on the planet are going to be eternally grateful to you

@marcogenovesi8570

2 жыл бұрын

there are much more than 4 of you, at least a few dozens if the reddit posts of the burned boards mean anything

Thanks for passing this along, J and crew!

Really clear video - great information and well presented. Also gave a bit of balance for the manufacturer - much better than a rant!

I was going to say that after watching yesterdays report. If a tantalum cap is put in backwards, it can catch fire. I had no idea about the presence a tantalum cap on this board, but it was my first thought. They really don't like reverse polarity, but it can take time to react. You make that mistake once, and you don't do it again. Yes I did it early in my career. Fortunately, it popped quickly.

@davidbonner4556

2 жыл бұрын

It's not just Tantalum capacitors, it happens with any type of polarized caps, especially electrolytics that can be rated to hundreds of volts in the case of Vacuum Tube circuits like guitar amps. Since the insulator in such capacitors was paper, we used to refer to improperly connected Electrolytics in Electronics Lab as "Confetti Generators". The caps in this case are polarized as indicated by the stripe on one end. This indicates the positive connection. The only ASUS motherboard that failed me was caused by a 12v regulator inserted where a 5v part belonged. This was back in the early 90s and I still exclusively use ASUS motherboards.

@whatthedeuce47d68

2 жыл бұрын

It's the first thing we did in electronics lab, put 24V across a 10V electrolytic cap, reverse polarity....pop. I've heard a train PWMI module capacitor blow...more of a boom!

@MikeZak101

2 жыл бұрын

you should of said it

@753238

2 жыл бұрын

tldr, Asus did big oops

@typicalbanana6441

2 жыл бұрын

you dont know what you are talking about

Some pick and place machines may only check the bottom of the components to see if the pads are aligned properly to their target placement angle (90 degrees, 45 degrees etc). Can you get someone to measure the voltage on the capacitor while the system is running so we can see it happening? Or anything weird happening at all, like measure the voltage at the gate, drain, and source of the mosfet and other circuitry around it. This will help paint a picture

Thank you Jay!!

Thanks for shedding light on this. My phone call with ASUS was my memory wasn’t on the QVL list. Both of my boards have the strike on the left. And I’m getting Q53 as soon as the board turns on. I read a comment on another video that ASUS is aware of this and they are supposed to setup a return portal on there website.

I haven’t seen anyone mention it yet, I’ve been out of the game for three years but having 13 years’ experience in Surface Mount prototype and manufacturing I just wanted to point out that the white print on the PCB (mostly referred to as the PCB Legend) shows the polarity of the 150 µF Tantalum capacitor should be to the right, it is indicated by the white line on the PCB, indicating the populated part has an orientation and that the Anode would be to the right, unless the Legend is wrong which from my experience is very rare, you can also see this with the IC's which have an extended line, dot or dash to show orientation. Out of curiosity if you see this Jay or Phil can you let me know if the Tant is around 7.3mm by 4.3mm looks like a case size D at a glance and it would be nice to know if I've still got an eye for sizes. In order of importance, you should always go off the written instructions BOM etc, then drawings and finally legend when building PCB's. The problem seems to be with the machine operator who loaded the reel and didn't check package orientation, also pre-reflow inspection has missed it, whether or not this was a reel change during build or at initial setup I'm sure like the places I've worked there will be a paper trail to see who signed off on it, I feel sorry for them with all this bad publicity. Also, the person who did the AOI programme has failed to put in the orientation or like I have seen before added an image of the part in both orientations which then won't flag it up as an error.

Just bought Strix Z690 - A, hope everything will go well!

@Audience_of_1

2 жыл бұрын

Hopefully it doesn't break

@diabolicfish4424

2 жыл бұрын

good luck

Thank you for this video Jay! I had just bought this motherboard and in between waiting on shipping land the story pops up. I just got it today, took a peek at it, and it was the upside down capacitor. So I sent it back as defective. I will choose another brand or something.

glad to see this issue was fixed for their Z790 variant which is the one I have, no issues and I've had it for over 4 months now

I was having a chat with my daughter whos a consumer lawyer here in the UK and I asked her about tech being badly manufactured and causing fires, loss of income and the such and her answer was pretty strait forward. If its a known issue and documented, most manufacturing here in the UK is required by law to recall the part. If it causes loss of income or worse loss of life its a massive fine and probably jail time. She then said, the consumer tech industry seems to think this does not apply to them, until the police show up.

@GlennsHardWired

2 жыл бұрын

My daughter said your daughter is wrong. She is a judge.

@LavitosExodius

2 жыл бұрын

Asus is not based in the UK they would just stop shipping parts to the UK to avoid this and close up shop totally. I.E the ones responsible are out of your countries reach. Unless of course you wanna prosecute the guy that owns the small electronics shop down the road because he probably doesn't even know about this.

@ThePopolou

2 жыл бұрын

@@LavitosExodius You couldn't be more incorrect.

@LavitosExodius

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThePopolou not really Asus is based in Taiwan which is historically hard to extradite from. So while yes they can be tried in absentia and sentenced to jail it's highly unlikely they'd serve a single a day in a UK jail. This is of course assuming they never leave Taiwan. If they do all bets are off then. While yes the UK could do other things jail time for the higher ups that caused this if it even gets that far. Which is also unlikely is a none point. As for any fines or anything yes the UK could most definitely level those and would most definitely get paid. But see the part where Asus could choose to cut their losses after.

@ThePopolou

2 жыл бұрын

@@LavitosExodius There are any number of effective routes available to any national consumer governing bodies ranging from competition laws to consumer laws...all without having to go anywhere near such sensationalism as you've suggested.

2:32 Jay you're also a modeller and car enthusiast. You should have given the capacitor analogy as an air tank in an air compressor ;)

Jay, Thank you sooo much for making this video!! I have recently purchased an Asus Z690 Hero. I was unable to use the board due to DDR5 shortages, but now i am glad that happened, as it gave me a chance see this, and check my board before using it.

@485danne

2 жыл бұрын

Was it the correct way on your board?

@5n4keyes

2 жыл бұрын

@@485danne yeah, stripe on the right..

@485danne

2 жыл бұрын

@@5n4keyes Okey, great. Did you receive the memory yet?

Thanks for posting this video.

Hey @jayztwocents! First I've heard about this issue was your last video on the topic. I've been running this board for a little over a month without issue. I did find the video you mentioned earlier today and verified my capacitor was indeed orientated correctly. I'm located in Eastern Canada and purchased the MB via Canada Computers on the 21st of November. Thanks for the information, you just may have prevented systems from being destroyed or worse. Happy Holidays My system: Asus Rog Maximus Z690 Hero I9 12900k (arctic freeze II 360mm cooler) Dominator Platinum Ddr5 Asus Rog Strix 3080ti Corsair HX1200 psu

@fat_smeagol4811

2 жыл бұрын

Reading your comment I thought “dam after all the internet stereotypes really are accurate, Canadians are super nice guys”. But then, I noticed you also follow Frankie, coming to a conclusion this is a case of a man of culture. I just felt the need to imprint that in the internet Yes, it does seem I have a lot of time.

@GolBDeze

2 жыл бұрын

"blablablabla let me flex my setup"

@caperonfire

2 жыл бұрын

@@GolBDeze You alright?

@fat_smeagol4811

2 жыл бұрын

@@GolBDeze man it’s a tech KZread channel. If he wouldn’t flex here where would he? Don’t be jealous, let people be proud of their stuff. Besides, he mentioned it in a context of mainly showing the compatibility between components

@MalteSpieltYT

2 жыл бұрын

Same here. Cap was right way up in Europe

4:48 Yes Jay you’re right that there should be an image check inbetween, but actually the diodes, mosfets (whatever has a particular orientation), etc. should already be loaded in their cartridges in one way (same way like a magazine). A failproof way, unless… (someone spills the cartridge out then doesn’t give a damn how to put the stuff back in, and the management spares the frikkin cameras off the assembly line bc “the cartridges were loaded in one way so why bother checking”?

@EMP3rr0R

2 жыл бұрын

8:14 okay Jay’s aware 👍

@marcogenovesi8570

2 жыл бұрын

the orientation may or may not be the same between different suppliers, or different batches of the same reels. That's why the pick and place machine has cameras and why there are cameras afterwards

@xorinzor

2 жыл бұрын

True, except human error is something that should ALWAYS be taken into consideration, especially when dealing with larger scale production. Even at slow speed human errors can still happen, but the faster you have to work, the more prone to errors you are.

@virtualtools_3021

2 жыл бұрын

@@xorinzor yeah but uh COVID or something we don't have to have QA anymore - every company since 2019

@anlumo1

2 жыл бұрын

Nobody would place them back into a reel once they're spilled. That's like millions of tiny caps and would take months. I think it's simply a reel that has them backwards and nobody checked.

Thank you so much didn’t know about this very good information i have this board and the stripe is on the right side :)

Happy New Year!

This is amazing work Jay. 👏🏻 An answer the next day. I work for a company who uses SMT and I've been involved in making guides for the long tubes which hold the mosfets, transistors, caps etc, and have been told that the components orientation MUST NEVER be changed. We have never had a failure on our boards due to the quality of our machines, so I know the what the results can be. Again, great work. You may have saved a life

@johndododoe1411

2 жыл бұрын

Tubes? Aren't those for rare components only, as tubes can't hold nearly as many components as reels.

@DuneRunnerEnterprises

2 жыл бұрын

@@johndododoe1411 Yes,indeed.

@test321456abc

2 жыл бұрын

@@johndododoe1411 correct, most parts are on reels, some are on trays. I work in SMT never seen a tube feed one yet. even the most expensive parts are on reels now. like £50 a chip are on reels.

@johndododoe1411

2 жыл бұрын

@@test321456abc Yep, big Intel mobsters in trays.

I believe it's a mix of issues. Pandemic pain points that caused temp shutdowns and layoff, new staff, or those who have gotten out of the rhythm of things. Then rushing to meet demand and pulling back on QC and going more for speed. Wish is then causing more headaches. I agree, defects happen, but how they handle it definitely is how I view a company. This is why Gigabyte has been dropped by me.

@nucphyschem1

2 жыл бұрын

For me I don't trust ASUS anymore I had 2 different x99 boards die on me during warranty and the first one ASUS wouldn't even look at the board they said it had to be user error. Second one I couldn't even get customer service to respond and since then I actively refuse to use ASUS parts.

@jonathansturm4163

2 жыл бұрын

I dropped Gigabyte when they refused to supply a Win 8 driver for a video adapter they advertise as compatible with Win 7, 8 and 10.

@xnonsuchx

2 жыл бұрын

There’s also the matter of sometimes having to use less preferred/known reliable components due to all the shortages. There are lots of crap quality generic (or at least brands you never heard of) Chinese components (esp. caps) out there, now being used a lot more in assumed to be higher end products.

@jonathansturm4163

2 жыл бұрын

@@xnonsuchx IIRC the problem with poor quality caps on Taiwanese MoBos back in the 1990s was due to relabelling of cheap Chinese tat with top tier brand names.

@MalteSpieltYT

2 жыл бұрын

@@nucphyschem1 My asus x99 is still in use today after 6 years of continuous use

Thank you so much, Jay! Finally, some good news 👍👍👍

Great follow-up!

I currently work in a factory, on a smt line. The machine mounting the components will not tell the difference if it is mounted the wrong way. The camera in in the machine sees the underside of the component. It uses the camera to correct placement. The error should have been picked up in AOI, right after reflow.

@TalonGaming_YT

2 жыл бұрын

That's exactly it. I mean, many machines can check polarity (BGAs etc have indicators on the underside) but they're not going to see anything on the underside of chip components such as a tantalum capacitor. If you look at the image Jay shows, it actually has a circle at one corner, and the polarity bar at the opposite end. I can see where mistakes would have been made here!

It's kinda like the infamous 360's red ring of death. In that instance Microsoft totally owned it, fixed it and sent it back free of charge. I'm not so sure ASUS is going to step up to the plate on this one.

u r the hero m8. thx for information. I just build my system 3 days ago ,I was so bored until I watched your video, I was waiting for my compensator to explode or burn at any moment.. luckily my compensator + on the right sight. (sorry about my bloody English ). bless 🤗

Thank you Jay.

a $700 board that fails... for that price you'd expect perfection.

As long as Asus finds out how this happened in the first place. I also think it would be good to hear what they have to say on this matter and how they can avoid this happening again. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't a human error when setting up the line with faulty data being programmed in to validate the structure of the Motherboard.

@Roshan_420

2 жыл бұрын

Someone will get fired

@Mad-Lad-Chad

2 жыл бұрын

I mean what can they say to make sure it will never happen again? Mistakes happen to everyone literally everyday. If there was a pattern of issues like this or something then expecting a statement regarding avoiding repeat issues would make sense, but not after one incident. The important part now is how ASUS handles it.

Thanks for your summary about company issues, I thought we were mad at NZXT recently, and then days later they're the sponsor for several YT reviewers.

Fantastic... can't believe i have not come across this... I was looking to do a build using this board but ........not now ......thank you

To both channels: Do you have ANY IDEA how much time / work / headache you guys saved ASUS? Their engineers were probably losing their minds looking for the cause of this issue, and you just presented it to them on a plate, with a nice side of humble pie. You are right, Jay, how they handle this moving forward will be really telling...

@yourhandlehere1

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, they need to fork over a little sumtin sumtin....

@GroudFrank

2 жыл бұрын

LOL, I am sure ASUS has engineers more qualified to assess this situation than AHO and Jay. The team that designed the board probably had a good idea of what was happening.

@yourhandlehere1

2 жыл бұрын

@@GroudFrank Maybe they do...but they DID put a flaming board on the market with those qualified engineers. I also haven't heard a peep out of them, no "hey stop using them", no "oops we need those back, we screwed up, here's some money and a free 'good' board for potentially burning your house or office down and killing your family with our careless manufacturing process"....

@XxViciousxX

2 жыл бұрын

@@GroudFrank You say that but Asus is also the one that got this component wrong in the first place.

@Mad-Lad-Chad

2 жыл бұрын

@@XxViciousxX The engineers that design the board and would be creating the solution are not the same people that are in the factory making it. A mistake by one doesn't suddenly make the other incompetent.

This probably could've happend with any brand, however the lack of quality control is really bad, all that matters now is how Asus deals with this, there is only really one way to deal with this now tho, they fail to do so its gonna hurt their reputation quite badly, their software team has quality control issues as well for quite some time now.

@jetslizer2570

2 жыл бұрын

Based on my persona experience with them I doubt ASUS will handle it well. I've had to RMA with Corsair and MSI in the past - both handled quickly and professionally. ASUS kept tossing me around department to department until finally decided that nah, they won't fix the issue.

@fxxx5067

2 жыл бұрын

You right about you said regarding their software's_and now the hardware too such expensive brand totally unacceptable

@kyoudaiken

2 жыл бұрын

@@jetslizer2570 Same here with my ASUS SWIFT PG32UQ. It has "DisplayPort laziness". No image sometimes until I press a button (almost inaccessable even!! on the side behind the bezel!!)... They say I have to go to MSI (My motherboard) support. I'll see them in court.

@nucphyschem1

2 жыл бұрын

@@jetslizer2570 yup i had similar experence with the x99 platform 2 boards dead, first one I couldn't even get them to start an RMA process and the second couldn't even get them to respond to me.

@Jodah175

2 жыл бұрын

@@jetslizer2570 it once took 3 different motherboards from ASUS before they were able to send me one that worked. even then it was missing a sata port and I wasnt gonna deal with them anymore.

great follow up. thank you

The first i heard of this was dapk1nmasta on the Asus Reddit thread who posted the comparison pictures between the right and wrong orientation caps. Props to Jay for jumping on this so quickly as well and bringing attention to it.

SOB, I have an effected board. Microcenter is being good to me and offering me an even swap even though I'm over the return period, but all the other boards they have, the chip is reversed. Haven't built a PC in a decade and this is what I get for going bleeding edge.

@m8x425

2 жыл бұрын

Good for them.... I bought a defective Crosshair VII Hero board from B&H Photo and I didn't figure out it was defective until 6 weeks later. B&H told me to go pound sand. Then I had to RMA the board back to Asus twice before they replaced it. Asus claims they couldn't replicate the problem, despite me telling them, in detail how to do so. Everything was fine once I got the replacement board but it took 2 months to solve the matter.

@Altek1

2 жыл бұрын

@@m8x425 it's one bit of junk customer service like that that'll stop you from shopping there. And really, what's the loss to them, they send it back to the manufacturer and get a credit. It's just laziness in my opinion.

@m8x425

2 жыл бұрын

@@Altek1 Well I'm happy to hear that MC helped you. Word of mouth goes a long way. And No, I haven't bought anything from B&H since then.

There are many capacitors on a motherboard. If the system didn't catch this one, how can we be sure all the others are correct? This particular location seems to be prone to failure, but that doesn't mean that there aren't others slowly doing the same thing and/or not doing their job properly. There may be future issues and/or stability problems.

@TalonGaming_YT

2 жыл бұрын

Most capacitors actually don't have polarity. It's only the larger tantalum and electrolytic types that do. The little guys (0805 and smaller typically), which litter the board and look like resistors can be installed in either direction.

@eshwayri

2 жыл бұрын

@@TalonGaming_YT That's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't others like it on the board. If the QC failure was that they didn't program that specific location for a polarity check, then it is probably isolated. If the QC failure is that they got a new source for capacitors and their automation can't properly read the line then there could be more. I don't have this board, and wouldn't go Intel anyway, so my interest is purely academic.

@DuneRunnerEnterprises

2 жыл бұрын

@@TalonGaming_YT Stragly,Jay did not mentioned it out. On pcb,where tantal Capacitor is loceted,there should be a markings,showing the right polarity!

@TalonGaming_YT

2 жыл бұрын

@@eshwayri That's not generally how inspection equipment works though. You would import the BOM and check every location. You certainly wouldn't leave out specific placements, that would be potentially detrimental to quality and expose the assembly to failures needlessly. I work in the industry in a support/process engineering capacity in this specific part of the PCB assembly process.

@TalonGaming_YT

2 жыл бұрын

@@DuneRunnerEnterprises I thought there was thickened silkscreen line on the right side of the component, but I could be wrong - the images weren't particularly clear.

You're awesome! This info is much appreciated. 👌

Well said Jay. They should come clean with the problems, embrace them and move forward.

Excellent video, and I’m curious to see if Asus leans more toward how Fractal Design approached RMAs with their case mounted fan/RGB headers vs how Gigabyte did with their exploding power supplies.

@marcogenovesi8570

2 жыл бұрын

Gigabyte: what exploding power supplies?

@asdf51501

2 жыл бұрын

@@marcogenovesi8570 Gamers Nexus was testing them wrong! 🤣

Given experiences I am aware of, I expect them to handle it poorly.

Very well said about mistakes and what to do for fixes👍🏻

Just bought a z690 hero last week and arrived today. Of course had to check mine after watching this. If this is the issue mine is backwards as well. Putting a hold on my new build now until further information on this issue

Already? They found out rather quickly. 👍

My husband and I both have worked in manufacturing for decades and could see these issues coming. I have been saying this stuff was gonna happen a year before all this. Think about it, pandemic hits and affects the majority of workers, lines left running then run with fewer and or people( like office workers or temps) who are most likely not happy to work production(don't care) and are " green" to the correct processes. Downtime and money losses lead to severe cost savings and quality control suffers. This same perfect storm is also affecting nearly every other industry as well just slightly different depending on the processes. It's a shame, hope the world industries can learn, heal and come back from all of this.

@totallynottrademarked5279

2 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, the people saying "Maybe we shouldn't run the entire economy on the brink of failure if so much as a single hiccup happens" are often drummed out of the industry or just straight ignored.

@mikerzisu9508

2 жыл бұрын

This kind of thing can happen at any time, regardless of a pandemic. Cutting corners and bad QC is nothing new. You didn't predict anything.

@DimitriosChannel

2 жыл бұрын

Well said, been saying for a while as well.

@stevedixon921

2 жыл бұрын

@@totallynottrademarked5279 I am pessimistic in this matter. The JIT (Just In Time) model only works if NOTHING fails. Right now the world seems to be in shambles because seemingly EVERYTHING is run on the barest of margins (Cost/Supply/Labor). One worker takes a personal day due to illness and next thing you know they can't build air bags for cars or get shipping containers for food or fuel to cities. Kind of crazy how close to the edge things are (held together with hope and duct tape it seems). I make sure I have food and supplies in my house for more than a week at all times (I try never run empty on anything anymore), because 'stuff happens'. Supply chains are more like supply strings, and not quality strings either.

@susantompkins8810

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevedixon921 well said!

Thank you Jay for that insightful information, I purchased this board a couple of days ago and the only reason I havent got round to installing it is because I'm waiting for the memory sticks. In case anyone's wondering my capacitor displays a G15.7 and the stripe is on the right hand side (also displays a "+" icon on the right hand side) so I should be ok however , I still have time to replace it with another brand and I might do this as Asus dealing with this issue doesnt inspire me with confidence.

I am so glad I saw this video, thanks bro

I work for a smd company aswell and I can tell you that someone is going to get fired for this.

@virtualtools_3021

2 жыл бұрын

*they can't find any workers and are forced to keep incompetent ones

@jorno1994

2 жыл бұрын

the QA/QC engineer is probably sweating profusely rn

@jm-holm

2 жыл бұрын

plot twist, you're the one responsible for this.

We occasionally receive parts from a supplier where the printing our cameras look for is backwards. It creates some pretty obvious problems. Those cameras are so sensitive that they will often reject perfectly good parts because the color of the component is slightly off due to a minor deviation in the process at the suppliers facility. Its a huge pain in the ass.

Jay, Phil I appreciate you bringing the news of the issue unbiased then the next day, let folks breath a bit easier with a way to identify the issue and if we are ones of risk.

only just watched the other video earlier today, so that was nice fast follow up

I'm torn between what to do since I have this defective board. Heard some bad stories about the RMA process with Asus but should I RMA this or wait for an announcement from Asus (if any) and see if they do a recall on these boards? I guess RMA and a recall would be the same thing in the end? I'm worried that if I do an RMA, I'll get another reversed cap board back in return.

@midicronica1

2 жыл бұрын

I’d say it’s better to get it started than risk damaging other components and causing more of a headache, especially since the issue is so close to the Ddr5 modules. Seems like either way, it’ll be some sort of a headache no matter what.

@Bunch007

2 жыл бұрын

@@midicronica1 Wasn't lucky to get ddr5 yet so this board never seen the outside the box yet.

@matthewparker9276

2 жыл бұрын

If your cap is on the wrong way, get the RMA, and if the replacement they send you is also faulty, send it back again and ask for a full refund (They should be paying shipping costs for replacement).

@--_DJ_--

2 жыл бұрын

I doubt they will be sending out any more boards with that problem after it being brought to light. I'd say RMA it and get in line before everyone else does.

@midicronica1

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bunch007 ah, then you’re good. No downtime to suffer. For sure get it started. Maybe they’ll offer something for the inconvenience.

ASUS, EVGA, and MSI have top notch QC, great warranties, fast RMA's, and own up to mistakes. I always trust them to do the right thing and those are the main brands I stick to. The rest just flat out suck at everything!

@lizardpeter

2 жыл бұрын

I saw this issue and immediately put off buying a board. I do like ASUS boards though. I have the Z170 Pro Gaming and the Z390 Maximus Hero. As long as they respond appropriately to this issue, I’ll keep buying ASUS motherboards.

@hammersbald7612

2 жыл бұрын

Is EVGA good again? Really liked their stuff but all of their old boards died. Haven't touched evga parts since intel 775 and 1366.

@nucphyschem1

2 жыл бұрын

Then you have been stupid lucky with ASUS CS then judging by the comments.

@AJayMustang

2 жыл бұрын

@@hammersbald7612 evga is the best when it comes to RMA in my opinion. They allow secondhand purchases and barely ever give you a hard time. And they sell parts to you

@IzzySarru

2 жыл бұрын

Isn't MSI the company that got caught scalping their own wares for massive profits?

Depends if the manufacturer wants to implement the test at the pick + place machine to check component polarity. It can be done but it will increase build time which isn't something the manufacturers want - I can see them not wanting to implement this test if they are already testing at AOI also. AOI should have highlighted this. Also functional test I would be hoping would be smart enough to pick this up! Nice Video Jay!

Good work !

I agree with Jay on this and I'm confident that asus will make this right just as they have in the past

I don't know about the backwards tantalum. It could be a redesigned board that has the orientation changed. In other words, its not wrong. Are there any other tants of the same value on the board? if one is wrong, chances are, they all are. The SMD parts come orientated a certain way on the tape, you physically can't load the tape backwards, and I don't think I've ever seen a tantalum orientated the opposite way on the tape.

@lucidnonsense942

2 жыл бұрын

Given that the boards have only just come out, and that these are very high end, relatively small volume ones, it would be very odd if another version was out already. Not impossible, but very surprising. Given that all the failed ones have one orientation and we are not getting failures on the other, yet; it's pretty strong evidence. My guess is that it's due to alternate sourcing from second tier manufacturers and the PNPs not being tuned to pick correctly for their parts, they drop off, the head moves to fix it and rotates the wrong way. Or it's a tapeless feed and the manufacturer of the caps had lower QC when loading. There are multiple scenarios we could dream up, but only ASUS knows for sure.

Thanx for the clear story

Glad this was quickly found good job guys.

“This is why z690 hero boards are failing.“ “Me with a b450 tomahawk.”

That is my broken motherboard in the picture. My replacement also has it backward, so I am afraid that the same issue is going to happen again. The exact response from ASUS was: "I am writing you an update in regards to the escalation ticket. Here is the update from our higher support. The customer will need to not use the PC for hours on end without a break as this will cause the components to overheat on any unit when at full capacity from gaming. If I may be of any further assistance, please, let me know. Thank you for choosing ASUS." **FACEPALM**

Yup Mine is on the left and numbers upside down. I just built it this weekend and I couldntt get the ram in the far right spot to work. Great. Thanks Jay and Bill

@tom_dillon

2 жыл бұрын

Chatting with ASUS and it seems they have no idea. I did not bring up the upside down MOSFET but I did get an RMA.

🙏🏼Awesome video and channel that covered this topic. I have this motherboard and mine looks ok. This is my second board as the first one constantly gave error 55 when using 2 ram sticks, probably issue with ram sticks or slot.

So now we will get a 1 hour Gamers Nexus video on this! I hope they play the let's see how fast it can blow its self up game!

Please do a video about how to set up "game settings". I have a 11900k and a 3090, and some games just don't play right. I know very little about optimization. Thank you!

@diabolicfish4424

2 жыл бұрын

until then, just change settings one by one and see what makes it run worse.

Super interesting stuff. One reason the PNP itself may not have caught this is that vision is often _optional_. Having to light up and visually inspect parts slows down the placing process. With the kind of gear these manufacturers are using, it's a _small_ increase in speed, but if you're able to consistently place all of those $0.02 jelly bean components without vision, it can add up. That's normally not a bad choice to make either. Older, less expensive PNP gear like the kind I run in my shop lacks vision all together. That limits some of the things that can be placed accurately, and requires a lot more fiddly tuning when settings up the board itself, but the reflow process is amazing when it comes to solving minor issues. I'm sure you've seen a bunch of caps/resistors/other jelly beans get their paste melted. As the paste/flux melts, the parts shimmy onto the pads. It literally floats on the solder and surface tension... something something a miracle occurs. It's especially forgiving when you're talking about something like a random part that's just a pad on either end. If it doesn't tombstone (stand up, like the name implies), you're golden. Which means that if parts are loaded in the correct orientation, throwing down a ton of caps without vision is probably fine. And for a lot of the little decoupling caps and things all over the board, polarity doesn't matter. I think you've got the general idea totally right here. The pieces were stuck on backwards--I imagine these are on a reel, so that's weird, but not impossible. When I get parts, often times they'll take them off the reel in shipping, and if I dropped it on the floor and had to rewind the thing on the new reel, I could do it backwards. It's also possible that the PNP was just programmed to flip it 180 degrees due to differences in reels or who knows. Either way, it gets stuck on backwards. No vision because it's faster. Then when it gets visually inspected, tons of caps are non-polarized. If they didn't know that specific cap was polarized, they may have inspected the joints and gone ok it was well assembled, it's good, without knowing that it was backwards. Anyway, fascinating stuff. You should get a garbage PNP and see how fast it can go cooled to sub-0, haha

Thank you, I was thinking about buying this board for Overclocking. Rog Maximus Z690 Apex it is.