Cool. How to play with this bot? Havent seen the full video yet but for sure would like to try.

@Harstem

Жыл бұрын

eschamp.com/guides/how-to-play-against-the-probots/

@user-nx3zm3ln7m

Жыл бұрын

@@Harstem Thank You Captain.

@bongkem2723

Жыл бұрын

@@Harstem awesome stuff, thanks man

@noneofyourbusiness4133

Жыл бұрын

@@Harstem CAN YOU PLEASE AN AI TOURNAMENT??? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.

50:24 those observers completely freaking out as their're watching their base being destroyed is so hilarious

Hello, Harstem. Before watching this video I want to say "THANK YOU" for your content. You really do it great. Watching you since may 2019 and have never played SC2 ever )

Harstem uploads so much, I hope he gets some rest soon

@Harstem

Жыл бұрын

Dont worry buddy. My job is to play videogames all day, I'll be fine :D

@Krarilotus

Жыл бұрын

@@Harstem love to hear that!

Shout out to Mindme for spreading the bot knowledge, thanks for doing this interview!

@llllllllllllllIIlIllIIllIIIIll

Жыл бұрын

Yes

Just wanna say, I loved this video, as someone who is studying comp sci this speaker went more in depth on the workings of the bot then in your previous videos and I found it incredibly interesting

This content makes me so happy. You can tell the guy has put a ton of effort into making this, and it's so wholesome to give it the spotlight it deserves. Good guy captain

I loved this! Super entertaining listening both to the bot creator and watching you play vs the bot itself. I would love ot see more probots please!

This was a great video. I'm honored to hear sharkbot mentioned multiple times :)

This was truly an amazing interview, big big thanks to the both of you for this!

Thanks for covering SC2 AI!! Congrats to NZ on the recent tourney win!

42:45: It doesn't realize that you have bad reflexes :D Great video again, I enjoy the videos with bots a lot. And the interview with the creator of the bot was very good. Very interesting!

A video looking at instances of bots sniping, with someone maybe explaining what happend, I would find that hella entertaining. Like the fake worker rush.

@BlindMidget

Жыл бұрын

I tried to find this particular game but I can't, there have been way too many tournaments for me to remember in which it happened, yet alone in which stream of that tournament...

This is a really great video ! I greatly support the advice, trying to make a bot would be hyper instructive and interesting ! I think many people would appreciate such a thing, and I really think that it's not that complicated :)

@drimmlunk172

Жыл бұрын

I am botbuilding for over 2 years fulltime now, and I think it is somewhat complicated.

More of these pro bot videos please!

Really great video it's very interesting to see the insight from the bot developer himself.

51:07 "Sometimes I feel like I don't quite have the correct questions" You are correct, some of your questions lack specificity, but it's great you recognize this. It seems pretty clear you haven't programmed before, because the question is never CAN you program something, it's HOW do you program it, or how LONG will it take to debug this complex thing you want it to do precisely and consistently. Sometimes you spend hours and weeks building up this awesome code that accounts for all these weird intricacies that you only discovered after putting in your month of effort; but now you realize that so many of these various issues you've been band-aiding (and quite often unsuccessfully I might add) are actually all symptoms of an over-arching issue with your entire idea of how this should be implemented, and if you REALLY want it to act "right", you're going to need to almost start over the whole control code. It might be worth it, to fix so many varrying issues at once, but it might also just cause more headaches, especially if the more general code is harder to debug.

It's hilarious how funny Harstem thinks it is to get our bot sniped during tournaments. I must tell you MindMe is right, on some occasions I was outraged when seeing my bot MicroMachine being abused at the very beginning of tournament games by yet another stupid trick that was never shown before, preventing my bot from showing to the viewers all the cool new builds that spent countless hours on to add to its arsenal.

You're a content MACHINE!

Would love to have a cast of the pro bots game with harstem and a bot maker just to see what both players can learn about how bots works and how pro players would try and counter the bot builds

I really enjoyed the discussion. I love starcraft and programming. 2nd best vid behind the time you beat serral with mass phoenix on bgmwss

Thoughts as I watch, pretending to understand the codebase: - Split unit ranges in to a "threat range" and an "attack range", where attack range is the units defined attack range and threat range is derived from attack range + max(1, attack range * 0.1). Then make danger sense care about threat range and offensive sense care about attack range. - You don't get cooldown information but when a unit is sighted you can assume it's cooldowns are available. Then you can just maintain a cooldown list per unit. IDK how memory intensive that is on the bot but it (theoretically) shouldn't be hard to do a lookup on the unit then lookup on the cooldowns to make decisions. - A simple scatter behavior on probes might be enough to help with drops and mines. If it sees threat, go to a random place nearby. (Seems this was mentioned later and costs too much mining time. Maybe worth revisiting though) - Ravager bile should be included when deciding threat, if it isn't already. Path away from it over other units. This might open up opportunities for bile baits but it'll stop pretty much anything from dying to biles.

24:50- If it is a flat score, maybe having some relative value calculation could be a thing. ie.: proximity to workers, potentially some hard-counter mechanic (as in killing a Viking is more valuable, if it prevents the Viking from firing @ a colossus), proximity to infrastructure, etc. If you have some cycles to spare, you might have a shot at scaling up the unit's damage and calculating what would happen, if it lived longer. The closest thing I've worked on were some fuzzy automation tasks irl, but it could be a thing for sc2 bots too.

Wow, I am impressed you were playing NegativeZero. It gave me immense trouble with this PvP build, it feels unholdable for a diamond player with the way he is microing every stalker and immortal back and forth at the 4:45 mark. Not even with a full wall and early void ray I could hold it. So I was wondering how good a pro player like Harstem would do vs this all in.

@bayanzabihiyan7465

Жыл бұрын

If harstem didn't get those two adepts in by abusing cancel timing, then again force fielding his ramp to fight only one immortal, then he might still have lost. No adept kills might have meant a couple more stalkers.

1st off - perfect guidelines for comments, i lmao 😁 2nd - this was such an interesting episode. Would like to say "i love that you are trying new things.", but you have always done that. So yea.. Keep up the good work Captain!

From Quebec with love!

This video is sooo interesting !

that guy was amazing i loved this video so so much.. hope Harstem has him on

Fascinating insight into the botting community!

hey Harstem when will you evolve from captain to admiral?

@myrcutio

Жыл бұрын

he needs a bit more gas for that upgrade

I want you two to cast the bot tournament 🥳

This is really cool

Love the programmer's final comment. Learn what you love.

What if there was a bot that was trained kinda like alphastar, but it would also have the option to defer control of certain units to another bot. That way, the neural network could handle all the macro-decision making, but it could let the other bot control drone mining micro, or if alphastar wanted to attack into the opponent's position, it could attack move into a location and let the other bot handle the micro. Additionally, this might make programming the hard-coded bot easier, since it would only have to worry about making sure to execute alpha-star's last command to the unit as efficiently as possible, rather than figuring out what it should do with the unit. (Also any command given by the alphastar would have priority over a unit/structure.)

So when will be the first Harstem codes stream?

It's cool hearing about what the scripting API can see. Like when mindme was talking about how if a tempest is hitting you from fog of war, the bot knows it's taking damage, but not where the tempest is? If i understand correctly?

Lets go Captain!

39:48 how is that stalker not receiving damage from the spit of the roach?

6:30 im also surprised you didn't mention that the adepts don't realize there is a battery healing, so they should sync up their attacks to 1 shot the probe instead of having to attack the probes individually. he lost a couple probe kills by just not having them synced up.

@Name-ru1kt

Жыл бұрын

That would be very hard to code in I think. Though I have very little coding experience

@Name-ru1kt

Жыл бұрын

Oh yea and if they don’t even have pathing yet def is not gonna be easy

@asdfqwerty9241

Жыл бұрын

@@Name-ru1kt I don't think it would be difficult to code if you were trying to code it specifically (pretty much just check 'if there's a battery nearby don't attack until both attacks are off cooldown with adepts' - that's not difficult to detect), it's just that there are a ton of small interactions like that and it's hard to code every single one of them in - there will almost always be some things that are overlooked.

@LEpigeon888

Жыл бұрын

@@asdfqwerty9241 As far as I understand all units have an "individual" brain, I mean they are all controlled independently and are not aware of what other units will be doing. If it's really like that then syncing adept doesn't look that easy.

@asdfqwerty9241

Жыл бұрын

​@@LEpigeon888 It's not really any different than looking at the units around it and deciding whether it should engage in a fight or run away which it obviously already does. The same logic can be used, just instead of determining whether it should run or not it determines whether it should avoid attacking or not.

If you wanna learn coding I highly recommend the book Python Crash Course by Eric Matthes. I didn't code and that's how I've learned it. Very well written with many examples and then three smaller coding projects for some hands on experience.

Very interesting

What a nice guy, we need to hear more from the botting community

He seems like a really nice fella

Question: can simpler Bot vs Bot matches actually play out FASTER than real-time? Bot vs Human matches: real-time Bot vs Bot matches: plays in step-by-step mode 48:43 talks about pathing, cpu resources, and with higher-level bots technically the game could take forever.

@drimmlunk172

Жыл бұрын

Yes.

This content is awesome :D Love to hear the botters perspective too. Would love to see some collabs... Make a bot that beats uThermal!

i like how harstem trash talkts the bot

How do you play with these bots?

what happened to alpha star?

Lol at Harstem: Out Harstem: Moron

I know nothing about coding but I thought it was interesting that they can't see energy from the code side of things. I wonder if they could write something that is time based to see how much energy something has because units spawn with a preset amount and regen at a preset amount.

@BlindMidget

Жыл бұрын

I haven't been too much attentive during the whole video so I might have missed the part where they talked about that, but I can tell you bots have access to the amount of energy each unit has when they have vision of it.

@-Anemic

Жыл бұрын

@@BlindMidget 8:30 ah he was talking about cooldown. But I suppose it still applies.

@BlindMidget

Жыл бұрын

@@-Anemic ah yes that's true, it's very annoying but some bots do indeed what you suggest:)

This was fun to watch and listen too.

Question I have is do the bots keep track of the enemy army count? Units that it has seen minus units it has killed.

@sirebrawl2404

Жыл бұрын

of course... it tracks all frame info that is "in-vision", and he spoke about 'snapshot' which remembers unit/building location after vision wears off.

@mindme6904

Жыл бұрын

Yes, it uses the units the enemy has to decide what units it wants to make. This is of course very dependent on what units it has seen, and since bots lack intuition scouting is probably a little bit more important for bots than humans.

One thing that bots could do that humans couldn't do is have many self-contained bases. For humans that's a lot harder. For bots, they could build up entire alternate economies with production structures and everything. Because they wouldn't have a hard time controlling all of the units, it wouldn't be that hard for them to control it all. For a human it would be nearly impossible.

Harstem is perfect example of the tax office worker. He says that applicant has to pay all of his wage the next day and, if the applicant says something he instantly goes "sorry, go ahead?"

You forgot to give him the p v z build upgrade you promised early in the video. I hope you will still send it to him. Introducing stupid stuff builds into the botting comunity could be just the thing.

Yo, an easy way to beat that bot is to proxy 3 rax at the bots 3rd (they dont scout there, and wall off the ramp with 1 bunker, since that bot always wall off with gate and core, bring 4 scv to build the bunker, the bot doesnt pull workers but their micro is BS and will kill alot of your scv, once bunker is finished, all the bots critical infrastructure will be within range, so ez win!!

I hope mindme will find his way onto the NATO security council as an advisor before skynet becomes self aware, we’re going to need people like him

Harstem, please my dude. 3v3 pro players of each race, energy casters only (detection, drop ships allowed)

Wow 😎

if 2 hardcoded bots in a 1v1 play the same build orders 2 games in a row, will the replays be the exact same?

@turkesteban

Жыл бұрын

I think they should be pretty close. But probably just the built-in RNG may generate enough "tiny" differences that overtime should result in a different outcome. Should be fun to visually overlap the replays to understand the RNG effect.

@drimmlunk172

Жыл бұрын

No, my bot uses a lot of randomness.

Why does the bot not do prison micro with immortals against roaches. Could be pretty op?

that bot can destroy the top tier pro in the first game, it's insane for mere human like us to fight it =)))

Is he actually developing bot to sell them at the end?

would be cool to play vs a strategical "perfect", not-cheating bot, and be able to set their APM to adjust/limit their strength. Maybe even it remembers me and self-adjusts, to have a 50% winrate vs me^^. Does this exist? funny bot coder challenge might be: with which low apm u can "reliably" beat for example plat3 guys ^^

What professional SC2 player did this bot beat?

so do bot makers use SC2Fusion?>

This video just shows why the AlphaStar bot was so so proficient, because all of these things, threat levels, positions, pathing ... it was all coded in the AI and it was really really thought out. It looked like it was considering just as many things as real pro players in real time after AlphaStar bots had been trained for hundreds of games. The bot from this video is just coded, not trained I believe.

@drimmlunk172

Жыл бұрын

That is correct. But Alphastar was built by a pro team with a very large budget and machinepark. The new bots are built by unpaid solo builders on one pc.

13,000 apm with 2 adepts jesus

beating grandmasters with stupid stuff idea: use a mothership to stealth units like disruptors to sneak in huge damage hits

Sponsored by Van Nelle zware sjag

Well bots can multi task and micro manage better than humans so its all good

@Name-ru1kt

Жыл бұрын

But in order for them to do it effectively then they need like a few million lines of code. Yes a bot could beat a human eventually but the amount of work it would take for just a single race. Though most of its copy and paste its still a ton of work. Even worse when theres a mistake you test to see if it works and it does. But its a mistake you don’t notice until other things are added. And then finding the one place you went wrong is hell

@rockk9753

Жыл бұрын

@@Name-ru1kt did I mention any of that? No... I was just stating what I wanted to say plain and simple I dont need your fancy explanations of stuff that I already know anyway

@rockk9753

Жыл бұрын

@@Name-ru1kt I was just saying he doesnt need to feel bad for losing to a bot if it was properly programmed then its all good since they can do the stuff I mentioned better than humans anyway... I dunno why you geeks feel the need to explain some bs no one even asked you to explain lol

Eh I prefer more adventure with alpha star but 2.0. I feel like this bot won out of 1000 apm micro

i dont know how code but i wanna make a sc2 bot, the world champion bot.

Alphastar is the best "Bot" 😏

there's an idea for stupid stuff - its winning the game by diplomacy with opponent

Do you think bots could help balance the game

You need to learn to code in order to do it. Maybe 2 years to ensure it's not garbage. What is most important is intellect and the ability to figure out all the relevant details of the task. Oh well... it's basically just a lot of work.

Harstem is very low energy.

I mean... Baroness will talk smack the whole game with responses

Is it IMBA or are you bot?

Bots would be more impressive if they were limited to comparable APM.

@sirebrawl2404

Жыл бұрын

As they pointed out, bots are really good at what humans are not and vice-versa. It wouldn't be a 'fair' fight if bots had to limit their strengths, since they still have their weakness and humans have their strengths. So if bots limited their APM skills, will the human also be forced to limit their high-level psychological/deception skills?

of course he beats you, see his apm, 1800 ish, 4000ish ..come on get real

Hey, I know a bot. Anna, Anna is her name. Boten Anna, she's pretty cool.

In most games this is called cheating.. but I guess in starcraft its an achievement in AI.

@sirebrawl2404

Жыл бұрын

The core of strategy games is theory, not execution.

i think you severely overestimate your abilities

@ZerglingLover

Жыл бұрын

i think you severely underestimate Harstem’s abilities. He beats most bots pretty easily because they’re stupid.

@Name-ru1kt

Жыл бұрын

@@ZerglingLover thats because they are like bronze league LOL. Like the issue with starcraft is it as a lot of features for bots. And that makes an exponential curve for codders. While humans just can sees it all as one. The bot sees everything seprate

@ZerglingLover

Жыл бұрын

@@Name-ru1kt he plays against bots in the top ten bot rankings but go off ig, bots make objectively dumb decisions alot. hell, his other video on bots showed a zerg losing a queen to a single stalker in a 1v1 from overmicro. Bots aren’t the unmatched opponents that you think they are

These hardcoded bots just aren't that interesting unless their APM can be limited to human levels IMO (like alphastar).

@rasper1797

Жыл бұрын

Saying these bots are hardcoded is a misconception, there is a lot of generalized behaviour in better bots. Authors do not sit there hard coding every single situation :) I do agree with the general sentiment though

Too much talking and pausing. The dude is smart, but it's not interesting or entertaining to listen to him. I'd rather just see the game play out with your commentary.

@jakep9911

Жыл бұрын

this

@gabrielpowers766

Жыл бұрын

@@FatherNagic Up yours tool boy. Get over yourself. It was just some honest feedback.