As a machinist, can confirm, will take the path of least resistance to make a part within tolerance. Hole is .125" +/- .005"? That'll get drilled with any 1/8" drill within reach. That being said, I'm gonna take my time for tighter tolerances. Hole is .1255"/.1250" is has a true position of .001"? Now I'm grabbing a center drill, .1094" drill, .120" drill or end mill, a few reamers from .1240"-.1255", and checking if they are sharp.

We got qualified on Xometry for CNC mill work, our test part passed on the first try. When we started looking at the work opportunities they had it was very disappointing, ridiculously short lead times and very unrealistic pricing relative to the complexity and small number of parts requested. There was also the issue of customers not really understanding manufacturing so there were issues like small corner radii that would be very difficult to achieve at the quoted price. Ultimately from our experience when you take the face to face element out of the equation it becomes very difficult to come up with a situation that is beneficial to both the customer and the manufacturer.

@CryoftheProphet

2 жыл бұрын

Customers pay extra for short lead times, if you dont want or cant meet that deadline, its probably not the job to take. Regarding the small corners and what not, I thought they had a minimum requirement for geometry on their website, even still, I have end mills that can get into some really really small corners if need be, so if tooling is an issue it might be something you need to buy to make the part, and at least you are getting paid to do that.

@KingZeusCLE

Жыл бұрын

Same. They charge the end customer about 1000% but only pay the machinist about 10% what they should. Brilliant business strategy paired with top notch marketing from top to bottom. Give them a few more years before they fold. The fair price competitors are picking up steam now..

Whe all need that Benchy video!

Well, that was fun. The idea of tombstones from any experiences I have had with tombstones and changing them out is not a simple task and pending the size of them, can also be quite dangerous, due to the shear weight of them. To see these dinky tombstones, really made my day, as strange as that may sound, anybody who has ever had to swap 1400 lbs tombstones out, which doesn't include any of the work holding devices, which can add, in many of my cases, an additional as much as 1000lbs, and is a multi-day task to align each station. Sure, the quick change bases have helped with the time frames and shuttle tables to store different tombstones, but, still, allot of work. So, seeing these dinky tombstones, what a joy to see, and didn't feel like I was aged 3 years from each tombstone change, LOL...

Xometry has been great to work with. Always exceeded my expectations

I had no idea there was content like this on KZread. This is great, it’s awesome to see, And it’s a lot of fun to watch you dominate the Learning curve, especially regarding the contrast of Prototyping vs manufacturing. It can be super depressing for other engineers to watch someone like yourself, navigate things so effortlessly. I spent what felt like a lifetime in this discipline, and became so disillusion and depressed because I liked natural ability and it was a real struggle. So the rambling long ass wall of text below is just to encourage folks who might be in the same position. And explain a bit of how I pivoted into something similar but that suited my extremely low IQ much better. 😁 I was in that world professionally, for longer than I should’ve been… Before accepting the hard truth that I’m not cut out for it. Its in my blood, But I lack the natural ability and meticulous mind. Thankfully, process engineering is still part of my life daily. Simply on a different part of the spectrum. After a few years as a somewhat accomplished machinist, I could realized it was going to be a real struggle if I wanted to progress further. After spending a while frustrated and disillusioned, I stumbled into a different type of work, completely by accident. I started a small metrology/engineering lab. Focused mostly on troubleshooting, component level board repair, and configuration of equipment for manufacturing and laboratories. I specialize in component level board repair, calibration, and configuration for other metrology related labs & tasks. It’s a lot of fun… And a very satisfying lifestyle come with constant flow of ever-changing puzzles. It’s WILD and always exciting! Presenting a wide range of varying cases, where high precision production lines, or testing facilities are needed. And for whatever reason… an outside consultant is needed. This means I get to tackle new problems regularly, and have clients ranging a huge spectrum of interesting specialties. Many of them are regular clients, which is great and gives me a bit of stability. But I still get to jump from one thing to another, because that was always my struggle when specializing in a particular area. I would get antsy and it was a real struggle. And the most wonderful thing about being a consultant, is that I am brought in to fix problems that sometimes teams of engineers could not solve. DONT GET ME WRONG… each one of those guys is probably more qualified, smarter, and definitely more wise than I ever will be. But sometimes it takes an outsider to see the big picture. Sometimes it takes someone who has delve deep into countless niche disciplines sprinkled throughout all different types of manufacturing. Sometimes I’ll solve a problem that was a real difficult and struggle for me… And then the engineers are slapping their foreheads because it would’ve been so obvious to them. But sometimes you get so deep in the same thing… It’s hard to see things clearly. So to sum it up I’m pretty sure my job description could be summed up as “jack of all trades master of none”. And although that might not come with the prestige and respect, it’s what works for me. It wasn’t my first choice but sometimes you have to duck and weave. understand that the knowledge you possess, is not going to be enough to get you across the finish line. I think the old saying is “float like a bee sting like a butterfly?”. Eventually things get difficult and shit gets real. It’s hard to hit a moving target, but it sure keeps things interesting! I didn’t mean to ramble on, I just wanted to try and encourage any of those who feel imposter syndrome creeping in. these are the types of videos and discussions that used to make me so depressed. Knowing I was a fraud in the community of true engineers. Still am…but I “engineered“ a way to hang around like a groupie. Trying to be useful however I can. Just hopefully not in the same way as a groupie 😁🤘 Hats off to all you folks out there…. Who make it look so easy!! Like shooting babies in a barrel or taking candy from a fish! You folks make it look effortless!

This was really fascinating to watch! And that benchy was sick!

yep, it's why we have gage pins at work job to check all our interpollated holes requested on the drawings. Also Go-NOGO gages for all the standards H7 holes tolerances.

@angrydragonslayer

2 жыл бұрын

Someone bought a 5' H7 go-nogo as a practical joke once at my first job and it actually saw use during the 6 months i was there In sweden, in a company that barely sells to america

As a machinist that does medical prototypes in an ISO controlled shop, this hurt to watch on so many levels. Those parts are not difficult to machine. However in order to function properly, those prints need some GD&T to assure the holes are the correct distance apart, the axis of the holes are correct, and the diameters are accurate to allow the desired slip/press fit functionality. Also if you want to open up a hole diameter after the fact, please use a reamer and not a drill. A reamer is designed to open up existing hole diameters.

@angrydragonslayer

2 жыл бұрын

Or a broach if you want to upset toolmakers

@martinokenka9063

2 жыл бұрын

It would help a lot just to write drawing note: "drill together with *** " or so. You don't need to be that precise to make working - not interchangeable - prototype assemblies and you can keep the price down.. ;)

@paradiselost9946

Жыл бұрын

@@angrydragonslayer lap it with a bit of bone and diamond dust... using a carefully moistened toothpick to adjust...

@InsideRiders

Жыл бұрын

Definitely cringe-worthy stuff. It kind of summarizes the core issues around using algorithmic manufacturing. Ai cannot know what you want, and in this case the designer does not know how to express it anyway, so it's like the self-driving car that plows into the side of a semi-trailer, something even an impaired driver can probably avoid.

I believe that Xometry is a broker and not a machine shop. They take a cut and sub out the work to a 3rd party. This leaves the actual CNC shop with very little room to care about the job. The manufacture and the customer have no visibility into the black box. My advise to young engineers and designers... Build a network of professionals and companies, get to know them, and learn the minimum level of communication needed for each vendor. This will get you to product launch the fastest. If you don't know them, assume nothing.

Nice coverage=design process, fab considerations and prototyping partners. I’m about to upload a file!

I think a lot of your advice toward the end of this video is also really useful for PCB manufacturing. Some of the design rule checking is a little bit simpler in this domain, but overall you've got all the most important ideas nailed. Great video.

Nice work! I can't wait to see rev 2!

YES another Winston video! I'll reply back after I've watched it

@YanouFishel

2 жыл бұрын

Cool video! Really enjoyed the brief talk about all the pitfalls and ending the note with a small benchy :-) always a good idea

As always, thank you for another good video. I am surprised you didn't go into more depth on geometric dimensioning and tolerancing (GD&T). In general, we use ISO 2768 general tolerancing for all dimensions that do not receive specific tolerances. ISO 2768 is relative to absolute size, meaning that a feature of >630

@GregPaulsen777

2 жыл бұрын

Hey! Xometry complies with ISO 2768 and can handle anything you throw at it. There is a section for tolerances when specifying a quote as well as what level of inspection you are ordering. It’s very customizable.

Good work great content like always, this must have taken forever to complete. Im a tool and die maker by trade and own my own Manufacturing company so i know what it takes to complete a project. Im proud of u buddy keep up the great work 👍

Wow, what a cool enclosure you've built fir your pocketNC! I do adhoc workholding because i am un-organized and lazy, but you are making me feel different about - i'll start with a small adjustable angle vise :)

xometry generally gets everything within my tolerances, granted, I now plan ahead for how i can correct where the tolerances are slightly off.,. I also make a prototype in house beforehand,... Generally , when i get a human quote , the price doubles, so i usually simplify the part and requote till the computer gives me decent price,, Once you get into very tight tolerances, it makes more sense to have a VMC at home .

Put a quad of threaded holes in the top center block of the vise just inboard of the softjaws slightly laterally outboard of the lower block threaded holes, which will allow you to place fully threaded bolts through the top block opposite of the jaw set you are using to simulate that the opposite jaw set that is being used (if it is empty); the bolts will provide an 'upforce' in the upper jaw relative to the lower jaw on the empty side, countering the clamping force from the 'used' side, with the bolt ends against the lower block.

@WinstonMakes

2 жыл бұрын

That's not a bad idea. I'll see if there's room to do that on mk 2.

@foldionepapyrus3441

2 жыл бұрын

IMO really doesn't need to be a quad - just one point on the empty side should be sufficient I would think, even if its off center etc it aught to keep the jaws on the working side engaged well as long as it can take the clamping load without deforming to easily. I'd also suggest that the center blocks should be hex (or triangular) shaped - you can always fit larger flat jaws for bigger work pieces but it looks to me like having the option of 3 work pieces total would be very doable with a hex center for smaller work and the jaw setup itself in that case would use up less of the working envelope and might allow you to hold bannana shaped bits around the middle on the inside of their curve to get as much working space as possible - just that bit more versatile than the two working sided square, while not really giving up anything I can see...

I know I'm late to the show... Great information Winston!

Hahaha, the Grimsmo comment.. albeit not wrong, bit under the belt.. Lets add John at NYCNC to the club of overthinkers as well i suppose? :D

@WinstonMakes

2 жыл бұрын

Grimsmo shared the meme on his Instagram story so I considered it fair game 😂

Would outsourcing the manufacturing have been worth it for you (in this case) even if you weren't sponsored? The manufacturing costs where quite high plus the added time it takes you to make "perfect" technical drawings.

@WinstonMakes

2 жыл бұрын

With the tools I have available, I would say yes. Especially because the marginal cost to make 3-5 was relatively low (I was thinking about giving away a few tombstones to other users to test). The PocketNC is just so slow for making aluminum parts out of large blocks of stock. If I had like a Tormach or Haas minimill with probing I'd be more inclined to make the first article myself, and have Xometry make the second round of "beta testing" units. Machining a Delrin (or other durable plastic) vise on the PocketNC might have been a good intermediate step, after 3D printing but before aluminum prototype. I'll probably do that next time.

@AlexJoneses

2 жыл бұрын

@@WinstonMakes you should look into getting an old manual mill, or if you're cheap get the sieg x2.7l, that way you can actually mill alluminum with fairly decent tolerances

@roryevans5032

2 жыл бұрын

Using a normal job shop, not Xometry, and waiting a few weeks would drop the cost by 2X or 3X. At the same time they will work from proper drawings (if provided) and the parts should be better quality.

This is really cool

Very useful

You should do a tolerance analysis and not care HOW they make it. just specify what you NEED. If it's a slip fit dowel pin, then tolerance it appropriately.

You should do a polyhedral design on your pocket nc. That would be awesome

By the way, the tombstone is definitely not a "lathe" part. It is a mill/turn or 4th axis part, which does justify the price increase. Don't forget that a large mill/turn center will cost 2-8 times more than a standard 2-axis lathe.

Hi, you said that for manufacturing the vise it would be easier to use a lathe, but there are also some robots that can pickup vises and put them automatically in a milling machine and it can run all night.

cool video

I've had a poor experience with Xometry with a lot of my assemblies. To be clear, Xometry does do some manufacturing in house but largely will sub the manufacturing outside. Even when I do make detailed drawings and have all the correct title blocks, correct GD&T I still get screwed up parts. My biggest complaints have been with threads, bilateral tolerances, and inspections. Threads have been not deep enough, or outright stripped. Bilateral tolerances are always wrong so the assemblies don't fit together. And inspection is literally pencil whipped from almost every vendor Xometry uses, like the tolerances they write down are not the actual dimensions even when they are measurable out of tolerance.

Great video, but am I the only one that, while Winston was going on about processes, efficiency, etc.,was wondering "Why the heck is he CNCing a benchy!?!?"... ;-)

19:59 product watching when john processing

Wow nice. I want to have pocketNC but so expensive :(

It's enough to put you off getting in to CNC ha ha

👍

5 axis woww nice nice. i see the video with dragon and in my mind was why dont make with and CNC pocket machine?

1:05 AYYY IS THIS A NERF CAGE I SEE

So unknown third party production should also be taken into consideration .

I enjoyed the video, but as a M.E. and now a CNC machinist, I’d say your representation of interpolated holes was off a bit. For my designs, I’d rather have an interpolated hole than a drilled one. A drill, unless it’s carbide, will not make an accurate/precise hole. Often it has to do with flute flex, but runout is a factor too. I typically drill with whatever undersized drill that I have in my machine, then helix interpolate to the size needed, and it will always be within 0.001” without even trying. Your drawings needed toleranced (GD&T) and your design couldn’t have been made properly with the 0.005” tolerance selected on xometry’s website. Sorry if I’m being hard on you-this is stuff we all go through as engineers because they don’t teach it in the classes we took. I made it 10 years into my career before painfully learning it when I started working with press/slip fits.

@AntoineGrondin

2 жыл бұрын

For someone who doesn't have 10y to dedicate to this, where can you actually learn about this stuff in a concerted way? A particular textbook? A particular curriculum?

@davidawaters

2 жыл бұрын

GD&T books are a good place to start but you really need to know manufacturing tolerances (cnc machining tolerances, grinding tolerances, wire EDM, sinker EDM, drill vs reamer vs interpolation, laser, plasma, water jet, molding, etc). There’s a ton to learn and usually an engineer gets in trouble by too loose of tolerances, then swings the other way with tolerances that are too tight (which is also bad), and then figures it out later. As I was figuring it out, I got so interested in machining that I bought a new Haas and later started a design/engineering company. It’s work and hobby now. I’d watch all the machining videos that you can. Read machining books, GD&T books, machinery’s handbook, etc. some of it may only be able to be learned by making the mistakes or someone experienced catching them ahead of time. Good luck! I think the Germans have this figured out, having their ME’s do machining before engineering.

bahaha you get a like for the John Grimsmo comment LOL!

Are you going to upgrade to the new control with RTCP?

@WinstonMakes

2 жыл бұрын

I was a beta tester. It's pretty cool, with some quality of life updates that are arguably more useful to me than TCPC. B axis unwind is great. Devs really listened to user feedback which I applaud them for.

thanks for the video, i would have liked it even more if you were using metric

Hello, how much is the 5 axis desktop cnc

Hi from Russia

This is why it’s good to cut your teeth on manual machining first and build up your toolset for a manual mill first then move onto CNC.

Hmmm, a new video from a machinist channel I must have forgotten. 1:04 ... oh! I know what that is! This isn't someone I found via those many machinist channels!

@jimbarbwe1985

2 жыл бұрын

🦀 I am in a similar boat of subscription confusion. Lost to what or why I was drawn here previously????

Do by you have the clamps for sale ?

@WinstonMakes

3 ай бұрын

Sadly not. They probably need one more revision to perfect, and since I bought a house and moved I haven't had much time to dedicate to PocketNC projects. Hoping I can turn that trend around in the next few months but can't make any promises.

what you need a just a vertical wise , too much work and over complication for a simple part holding.

A simplified tombstone?

Hey whos that divien clockworks you told about ?

@WinstonMakes

2 жыл бұрын

instagram.com/deviantclockwork

16:03 teeznutz

Symmetry in a drawing note to a manufacturer is meaningless. You really should take a course on GD&T. I would really give you a leg up on being able to specify on your drawing what you need.

Outsourcing ???? Translating information to another Machine Shop ?? IF you don't include the information it will Not be assumed. Any Machine Shop with experience in machine parts for outside vendors will already know to Never Assume. Only the person designing the part(s) will do this. Well that is my experience ?? Many times I have been given drawings from another shop that does not include enough information. Usually this is more to do with costings of the part. They request something to be machined. That means it will be machined on ALL surfaces. Unfortunately one customer I have, did not require parts machined to a high degree externally only internally ???? This unfortunately lead to overpricing of parts, which in the early days of dealing with this customer lead to less work coming to my shop ?? Eventually, after being able talk directly to the customer, it was bought to my attention that the part did Not need to be machined Externally as the parts were to be Welded and only need a Ex Mill finish. After sorting out this early confusion, my work load from this customer increased by more than triple, and is currently one of my higher turn over customers. Just some information sharing for those who might be interested. Some parts are for Rocket Ships. Others ?? Are for Farm Machinery. Definitely makes a difference IF you know what the end use of the part is ????

Xometry contacted you? Thats how a spam letters nowadays are called?

#tutpinkod

How are you sir what the brand and the price please and can i use it for hard metal like rc gasoline engine with it thanks

It's really tough to see you treat new CNC machine parts with so little respect. 😐

эхх..нам бы в кружок такой станок. но это не реально.

So Xometry is a Chinese company. Don't be surprised if you find exact nock offs of your products on the market frighteningly fast...

@lucianchapar

2 жыл бұрын

What are you talking about?

Or don’t use a middle man?? Xometry is a race to the bottom. Find a local machine shop and create a relationship.

@domesticterroristAtari

2 жыл бұрын

my local machine shops refuse to take on small parts or one off prototypes and generally turn you down if you ask for something to be machined or even simple tasks such as facing parts. Most shops are only willing to work with you if you're bringing parts by the thousands to the table

@Daniel-vq9zb

3 ай бұрын

​@domesticterroristAtari year later but if you ever need a good shop without a middleman taking a huge cut hit me up lol

01:52 please don't do this again, this hurts machinists that watch your videos