They Want Me To Train The Morals Of A Self-Driving Car? (Dr. Trolley's Problem)
Ойындар
Dr. Trolley's Problem on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/77...
This was taken from my livestream on January 1st, 2021! I'm live every day but Saturday, come watch: / northernlion
The Trolley Problem is a classic philosophical thought experiment where there are entities on two train tracks, one of which is about to be hit by a trolley. Given the option, would you act and pull the lever to divert the trolley, causing it to miss the original victim at the expense of whatever's on track two? Naturally this is a great fit for a video game, and despite its thin premise it was a lot of fun. Check it out!
Пікірлер: 260
Egg whenever anyone dances: so you have chosen death
NL yesterday: shouldn't be standing on the tracks NL today: shouldn't be standing on the road
@FeedsNoSliesMusic
3 жыл бұрын
Can't stand anywhere these days.
@CarbonDioxide.
3 жыл бұрын
Lmao it's a crosswalk so it makes it even funnier.
@gavincrumley9305
3 жыл бұрын
@@CarbonDioxide. you dont just stand on a crosswalk though you cross it
@bandvitromaniaios1307
3 жыл бұрын
Can’t people stay on the sidewalk those days?
driving into Pierre Cantante is the same as driving into a wall
@Northernlion
3 жыл бұрын
the absolute unit
@MouseGoat
3 жыл бұрын
@@Northernlion But i find it interesting how you in some case valued to go for the people to save yourself And then other times were fine with driving into a truck (that would hurt you for sure) to save the people. In any case thanks for some Great content ;D
So what did we learn? Egghead would rather murder a group of people over destroying his car.
@CssHDmonster
3 жыл бұрын
he learned that u can just create life by mixing a egg with spunk, while a car costs
@gavinjenkins899
3 жыл бұрын
It is implied you die when you crash your car, not just your car
@nathanbishop2886
3 жыл бұрын
@@gavinjenkins899 That does not make it better.
@gavinjenkins899
3 жыл бұрын
@@nathanbishop2886 Yes it does, it's one more life, which changes the ratio. For example, mowing down 2 people versus a wall is 2 more lives lost with an empty trolley. With a car with a driver, it's 2 vs 1 and only 1 extra life lost. 1 difference in life lost is indeed better than 2 difference lives lost. Could they have just accounted for that by adding more people? Sure, but they didn't, I was watching for that actually and they missed that opportunity.
@Evatar7
3 жыл бұрын
@@CssHDmonster cars do be costin' though
"In some situations I'm willing to sacrifice one to save five, but not if the one is me." -- NL. That, my friends... is a profound statement. It's also very relatable to many people. (As the prince in Shrek said, "Many of you will die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.")
@stevendorries
Жыл бұрын
Lord Farquaad is a non royal dictator, not a prince.
I was really hoping there’d be a “crossing street legally” vs “group of jaywalkers” so we could see Eggman ruthlessly mow down crowds of people. But alas.
@gavinjenkins899
3 жыл бұрын
There was, go to the twitch VOD and look at the segment immediately after this one (or maybe he'll post a video tomorrow or whatever). Tons of jaywalking stuff
@WebweaverActualFiller
3 жыл бұрын
@@gavinjenkins899 Can't wait for a youtube video of pog tomorrow. Hopefully.
"You just made my decision even easier" proceeds to drink water while watching his car mow down several workers.
It's really funny to me that apparently the people you love and the people that love you are two clearly distinguishable groups.
@PoiColle
3 жыл бұрын
I hate everyone that loves me >:(
@davidcater887
3 жыл бұрын
I love everyone and no one loves me
@assiaisindegyara4905
3 жыл бұрын
Theres a level of intersection but not everyone you love loves you and vice versa.
@renegadeprism42
Жыл бұрын
@@davidcater887 get gud, i guess?
People on crosswalks are just jaywalkers in disguise
Filling my car up with Pogtroleum
if they had a slideshow at the end with all the people you ran over and details about there life that would be messed up
@Northernlion
3 жыл бұрын
tiny dinky daffy
@milangiroux
3 жыл бұрын
@@Northernlion ??? What?
@Manivelarino
3 жыл бұрын
@@Northernlion pancaked by drunk dump truck driver
@igam4fun
3 жыл бұрын
their*
Wall and 5 people - chose 5 people Wall and 1 person - chose 1 person 1 Hippie and a tank - chose the tank :D
@silvergeneration
3 жыл бұрын
and he just drives through the tank like its nothing
@SynergyGaming112
3 жыл бұрын
A wall stops ya, but a tank is no biggie.
NL: Don't kill one policeman just because he gave you a ticket Also NL: *slaughters 5 people so he doesn't crash his car*
@WexMajor82
3 жыл бұрын
Would you be in an automated car, if you know the car prioritizes others before you? Would you even buy it?
@Htown1738
3 жыл бұрын
@@WexMajor82 i wouldn't even feel safe if automated cars prioritized the passengers over people walking
@CatCubed
3 жыл бұрын
@@WexMajor82 Obviously no, but I also wouldn't want a car that's gonna drive in a way it has to choose between me and mowing down a family in front of my eyes
@Healthpotion
3 жыл бұрын
@@CatCubed Of course the goal of any automated car is to follow traffic law and prevent any accidents from ever happening. But sometimes it's not in the car's (or driver's) power to prevent it and in that case, it has to choose. Making the driver a priority over anything else is basically mandatory for anyone to ever consider using such a car.
@ChaosDL.
3 жыл бұрын
@@Htown1738 I believe most people would prioritize their own safety and their passengers over those outside of the car, out of instinct.
11:20 also, if you drive the person over, you get to use their organs so it equals out in terms of lives
The wall or 5 people(!) one got me so offguard, fucks sake man. Self-preservation on paper is a no brainer, but the thunks as you knocked the souls out... still reeling
9:57 Proof that once and for all that NL will never Embrace the Void.
This video advocates against Egg based AI for autonomous driving
This new era of constant streaming and "Just Chatting" stream highlights got me pogged out my gourd. Banter/chatting has always been one of NL's main strong suits and this style of content fits perfectly, looking forward to a pogged out 2021!
7:01 Egg's cafe vs. train station argument has me in tears. POG
pretty sure the "I don't know" level was just the devs trying to make sure they used everything from the asset pack they bought
@aturchomicz821
Жыл бұрын
LOL +2
"The person in the limo is rich and famous." Well, sucks to be Tracy Morgan.
Hey NL just wanted to say thank you, I'm studying abroad in japan and had to leave my cat with my parents in canada when i came here and this last week he's been in and out of going to the vet and it's looking like he's not gonna pull through. Your content has been what's keeping me together this week, so thank's for doing what you do. It means a lot.
the content lately has been peak nl
@Northernlion
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Mr JelloSalad
These are literally just the trolley problem again, except instead of being an outside observer choosing what happens, you're now inside the trolley. In both cases you aren't in control, but have the ability to divert the vehicle if necessary. It's interesting seeing how his answers change when he feels more directly involved.
@gavinjenkins899
3 жыл бұрын
It's not literally the same problem, because the trolley was empty, whereas the car version includes your own life
@Abyssionknight
3 жыл бұрын
@@gavinjenkins899 the only scenarios where you being inside the car matters are scenarios where the car could be destroyed. In all other scenarios it's identical.
@gavinjenkins899
3 жыл бұрын
@@Abyssionknight The game designers would like to think that, but I doubt many players can just easily toss aside their intuitions on a short fused timed game like that. If presented with a tank versus a person, I'm heavily instinctually going to favor the person because every fiber is telling me "DUH of course your car will be pancaked and you'll die. So it's you vs them". I have to fight to override that and really be paying attention to the silly game physics.
Who will you save, Spider Man!?
NL got me thinking about the dystopia where you can buy self driving cars with different morality-modules. The most expensive cars are the most self-serving, and will always save the lives of their pasengers when possible.
Yesss another episode of this
@funworldtonight
3 жыл бұрын
ehhh, youd think thered be results based on your choices at the end or something. seems like the guy ran out of ideas
@Voknerech10Z
3 жыл бұрын
Automatichesky
@DeineMudda313313
3 жыл бұрын
@@funworldtonight I agree, first ep was better game-wise, but It's the egg content that makes it good
@funworldtonight
3 жыл бұрын
@@DeineMudda313313 egg makes anything good but it doesnt hurt to have a good game there too or else i just watch isaac episode 6889890
8:24 MULTI TRACK DRIFTING
Welcome back to Crimes Against Humanity Episode 2. Here we can see. Northernlion arc mature as he begins to choose 1 person over 5. Tune in next time to see if he drops his ego and saves 5 people over himself.
If you drift good enough, you should be able to tackle both of them
This series is making me so freaking happy man, i need to put more baskets in real life stuff bc this shit had me geeking hearing the premise of the game a bit too much
9:31 bad play. Right side was moving towards the car so NL was likely to hit more people than he would have going left side. Like running into the wind.
As soon as he hit the limo a car started honking outside my window and I died laughing 😂
This game is perfect for an ethics expert and esports legend like you POG
2:42 Not necessarily the same. There is no "safe" place to be on a road. It's all equally hittable. So, a more utilitarian approach is better for the road. 4:45 No no, you're fine. In this case, they're idiots in the road. In truth, you're basically Pierre from last time. You're doing nothing wrong, so you should not have to pay for their mistakes. You're totally fine NL.
9:04 NL literally throwing chat under the bus
I learned some things about myself by watching you do this and thinking about it.
This is surprisingly entertaining
"any time i'm in an airport or a trainstation i assume a little bit of risk, i'm like there's a chance i'm not making it out of this place" as someone who is terrible with directions and spatial awareness I feel that
Wow... How traumatic is it that the 'people you love' are not the same as the 'people that love you'... Kindof a heart breaker XD
In my state there is a law that says if your life is at risk and pedestrians are a threat and wont get out of the way you are allowed to run them over.
And lion, the milk, post office one, is the reason somebody's dad never came home after saying hes just gonna go get some milk
Go back and look at how the jaywalker is standing and tell me he doesn't deserve to be hit.
Actually god tier content
I feel as though the game itself really misses a lot of opportunities or interprets things wrong. (It's $2.30 but still, I was hoping for more meat and potatoes!) But NL playing the game is so poggers and I love it.
Absolutely pog video brother
5:10 "dont look, Luna, daddy's just going to plow through a legal gathering of unionized workers"
Honestly this is absolutely hilarious and I think this and the Geoguessr battle royale are the two biggest latest gems
12:19 reminder that proposition 22 has been passed
I like NL's consistency, although I offer up an alternative: Program the car to always keep the driver safe while maximising carnage outside the car, and turn it's danger into an advertised feature.
Lol the Cafe and train station logic is pretty hard to argue with
God I love this. It feels like NL was made for this game
If I’m going that slow in a car with no brakes, I’m driving off the road and softly hitting a building.
Damn, I really want on-screen chat for those kinds of videos.
You have organs that can save 5 people. You hit someone with your truck. Now you have enough organs to save 10 people :)
As my ethics professor said: something something prioritizing your survival in the heat of the moment is ok etc etc
NL takes his hands off the steering wheel saying he could choose to be in control of his car.
It's a true shame that only 27% of people know that there's always money in the banana stand.
This truly brings the Jokair out of an Egg
27% knows there’s money in the banana stand
@funworldtonight
3 жыл бұрын
blech
By god, chat has created a monster.
if you follow the teachings of doctor king, "people who you love" means everyone on earth
Egg wins Dr. Trolley's Problem by doing absolutely nothing.
Not sure what it is great!
There shouldve been one like "the right lane has your crooked lawyer (bad person). The left lane has two innocent people. Will you switch lanes, and avoid hitting your crooked lawyer in order to avoid prison time, or would you hit your crooked lawyer and an innocent person and possible be charged with manslaughter?"
This game f'ed up by not having them tied to the tracks by someone else. Without the madman variable it's just who assumed more unnecessary risk.
NL picking the person over the car was interesting. I’d rather run the gambit of possibly harming myself and someone else in a vehicle with tons of safety features over just straight up creaming a human with my Ford Fiesta 2012
An autonomous car without brakes... Engineers were like "we probably can save money if we install an ethics AI instead of brakes"
Breaks on a vehicle solves all these problems :)
RIP Jaywalkers
I'm confused why I like this but I do.
My man got a strike on those clowns.
"Rule three, Protect the Pilot" -TitanFall
In most of these there is a big empty sidewalk to go around the people
Also if autonomous cars sacrafice their occupants that would drive buyers away from them...
on the spinning ones I wouldve changed into the rotation because you would hit less people going with it
Jwalkers beware the end times are high
Why not start the car in the middle and force a choice or hit both?
He always avoids the wall because he doesn't want to die but he chooses to hit the tank which will also kill him????
You definatly hit the school bus, you dont even need to wear seatbelts on a bus, because there so tall that you dont even have to worry about the passengers getting hurt that bad.
@lilyliao9521
2 жыл бұрын
bro what
@assiaisindegyara4905
2 жыл бұрын
@@lilyliao9521 facts, most buses don't even have seat belts.
You’re telling me that you don’t eat at cafes with the knowledge that at any moment an octopus themed doctor could throw a car through the window?
This is grate content for sleeping
They should really make it so you're going to hit both unless you actively choose a target.
@thegammaparadigm4540
3 жыл бұрын
Part of the trolley problem is that it will only hit one group if left untouched. It's meant to further highlight the difference between utilitarianism and deontology
@sebastianwillows
3 жыл бұрын
@@thegammaparadigm4540 Neither of those philosophies benefit from inaction being an option though? Many of these examples involve picking one of two people for the trolley to hit. Neither utilitarianism nor deontology is challenged or affirmed by inaction in the scenarios I'm referring to. Forcing the participant to minimize the casualties by making an ethical call on their own creates a situation where not acting is objectively worse, so the choice they end up making between the two victims is more significant. Of course, the participant can still abstain, but that creates a third branch that's interesting in its own right. In my opinion, being able to just not choose creates less engaging scenarios when 5 problems in a row are just "do you kill the woman, or do nothing and watch the trolley kill a man?" Those scenarios make incredibly arbitrary distinctions between the victims, which could be made a lot more interesting if inaction weren't as easy a choice to make. From a gameplay standpoint, it also ensures the player's not spending several levels in a row just sitting there watching the train. At some point, variation needs to happen to keep the game interesting.
The stair car was from Arrested Development, but what was the ice cream truck referencing in the same problem?
Does a Tesla know when it's carrying a bomb?
Not cool, that tank had a family
Lots of crazy situations with Trolley Tom vids and game by cyanide and happiness.
I don't think this game actually understands what the trolley problem is.
Imagine if this took over the spelunky spot
So is this a GTA3 tank where anything you touch blows the hell up?
Remember: the people are fake, but their pain is real
game doesn't make any sense. The space next to the road is completely empty, you could easily avoid all of the obstacles by turning your steering wheel right instead of left.
@virtualuser9268
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah but it's probably not good for your tires.
@accaliawolf2903
3 жыл бұрын
also the people aren't tied down like in the original trolley problem so there's no reason they couldn't just get out of the way lol
@xIronWarlordx
3 жыл бұрын
or just apply the brakes
Part 3!!
I don't think self driving cars will know if it has a bomb in it or not :P
"I don't wanna cheat the system" Proceeds to take the philosophical question literally "Shouldn't be standing on XY" instead of choosing between the available options.
so after all that vehicular homicide the cop only gave you a ticket?
1:00 you already failed. even an AI should know that the pedestrian had right of way in the cross walk and should stop.
its doctor phil? floors it.
So, so far I'm seeing plenty of open space on either side of the cross walk. So why is "Go around" not allowed?
@polar5605
3 жыл бұрын
because it's a thought experiment
@jfarrar19
3 жыл бұрын
@@polar5605 then don't make it visible that there is a superior option I'll need to ignore.
5:30 FBI is in Canada now, eh?