I've posted several updates to my channel. Be sure you subscribe for the ongoing details.

Don't forget to sue the logging company as well

@troutfisher7182

15 күн бұрын

It's true if he hired a logging company and they didn't ask to see his permits they will get in trouble. He may have logged out himself

@DustinBowen1

12 күн бұрын

Excellent point.

@kathykraut4491

11 күн бұрын

Did they give you a reason? I would see if you can put a caveat on their property and apply for it as part of compensation. Put a fence up as well.

@myhounddog

7 күн бұрын

Steve Irwin's wife fought the loggers....but the $$$$ it cost her

They left trees on their side of property line, and took them from yours. This is clearly malicious

@thomasgirty6397

25 күн бұрын

and left a HUGE MESS and tore up the land. plus now you need stump removal too.

@symonrocks9847

23 күн бұрын

Why stump removal, nature will reclaim the stumps, bugs and fungi will feast on those treats. However, saying that, if there is a low cost way of lifting the complete stump out they are at a premium price now in the furniture making industry.

@uncertaintytoworldpeace3650

23 күн бұрын

@@symonrocks9847I mean maybe if you happen to know any giants? Or happen to be materially creative enough to solve the problem that humanity does not have access to giant laborers on your own time. De stumping is a long and arguous process. Cannot use a chain attached to a truck you will smash your truck window like the chain is a giant rubber band.

@TwitchingHour

20 күн бұрын

Loggers know, they have to because of issues like this. They flag the zone and everything. The logger cut the good wood. Hoped no one would notice. Love em but loggers ain’t the brightest group I’ve ever worked with. I think this is a bad logger/forester.

@timmoore9736

10 күн бұрын

@@thomasgirty6397 In forest lands, stumps are usually left to rot out.

That happened to a friend of mine. The power company in Washington state thought they had an easement which they did not and cleared 5 acres of trees to which they profited from . After all was said and done in the court my friend was awarded triple damages in stumpage and resale value to the tune of $5.2 million . So ... Looks like your neighbors just put you in the top 5 % income bracket.

@myhounddog

7 күн бұрын

When it comes to things like that doesn't the federal government have jurisdiction and power over private landowners???

@willhutton1516

6 күн бұрын

This is America, if the gov’t takes without permission or “accidental” taking over a property line, they are required by law to compensate you. You have to take them to court to prove they wronged you, and they’ll hire the best lawyers to extend the wait to make it financially ruinous on you, but they will lose.

@Peter-jo3wt

Күн бұрын

The Top 1% = $250,000 per year. Only 0.1% of Americans make more than $1 million dollars per year.

@Peter-jo3wt

Күн бұрын

The top 10% of wealthy Americans, pay 90% of the income tax collected.

That neighbor assumed you would never find out. Sue him to kingdom come ! Pray you get millions for this trespass.

@arribaficationwineho32

Ай бұрын

Neighbor knew exactly what he was cutting

@havok9001

Ай бұрын

not only for trespass get them down for damages & etc also get the people they hire down as will if they say it not there fault cuz they doing what they been told i tell them that to damn bad that person put u in this u find ur way out

@Robbie..Ha-Navi

29 күн бұрын

really. you all belong on an island together

@geraldinemccormick8635

27 күн бұрын

Is that all you lot do. Sue over a few trees . You needed a drone to discover it. Seriously...

@Robbie..Ha-Navi

27 күн бұрын

@@geraldinemccormick8635 what a dramatic soyboy, . this is the last guy you want moving in next to you .

It appears that when incidents result in profit, they are rarely accidental, in my opinion.

@Trevor_bow

2 ай бұрын

It's profoundly distressing to learn that not only were the woods stolen from him, but also, in a bitter twist of fate, he might find himself in a position where the best course of action appears to be, in a manner of speaking, "selling" the wood back to those who took it. This is because there's simply no quick fix-no way to undo the years of growth lost in an instant. It takes a century for a single tree to mature, and with 300+ of them taken, the loss is not just material but deeply emotional, echoing a sense of irreplaceable heritage and natural beauty forcibly removed. Wishing the best for you I couldn't imagine what I would be feeling in your shoes

@bennetwilson8122

2 ай бұрын

they will be paying him triple stumpage, so they will defiantly not be making money haha

@user-xs6hf1xo9i

2 ай бұрын

Ditto, 😢 😮 😅

@vxnova1

2 ай бұрын

If this ends up in court there is no way they are making a profit from them

@johnathon007

2 ай бұрын

@@Trevor_bow The only way I see to make this right is to take enough money from the offender to get new or more land to replace what was lost.

It's very rarely accidental. The loggers see valuable trees and raid well past where they belong to get them. All trees in their way are destroyed. That happened to us on my family's old homestead. They slashed down hundreds of years old huge oaks and bulldozed our creek right where the waterfalls were just to get to pines they wanted on our back property, thinking we wouldn't notice. They even destroyed the log cabin we had back there and took the logs and left their oil changes and grease dumped on our property. The lawsuit was huge.

@whyjnot420

20 күн бұрын

I remember a business here in Ct. that went maybe 150 feet over a property line to get a nice tree. That business was forced to close immediately following that and there were also criminal charges against the owner along with the civil stuff. I think those ended up as some really nasty fines. This was 20-25 years ago, so its not the freshest of memories.

@fastinradfordable

18 күн бұрын

Americans do not value clean running water Let alone waterfall. 😢 If I could have anything on earth it would be small wooded area secluded with clean running water.

@ForageGardener

17 күн бұрын

Some shithead loggers cut like 30 yards into protected riparian land near where I hike for the nice trees

Similar thing happened to me. Skidder damage to future tree growth was huge. My state law wanted to pay me stumpage price. My lawyer go me 10 times the value of the damage and the same for potential loss of tree value. I ended up with more than I paid for the land and it was not enough in my estimation. It happened 40 years ago and it still bothers me.

@aaronkreber447

21 күн бұрын

Money is not always worth what you lost

@zosochan21

20 күн бұрын

​@@aaronkreber447it is not but when the damage is done. At least make them pay dearly.

@mariobosnjak99

20 күн бұрын

​@@aaronkreber447 it is incredibly hard to put a price on trees because it mostly comes down to sentimental value and sentiment can vary depending on the tree, the type of tree, the use of the tree, the history of the tree, the variety of the tree, the size of the tree etc. So he most likely was underpaid, or maybe he was overpaid, or maybe he was paid what he was owed, we will never know

@timmummert63

19 күн бұрын

Washington State is 3x value. See Porter v. Kirkendoll, Washington Supreme Court, No. 96214-6 (September 26, 2019) that neighbor is screwed big time!

@angelathompson9047

17 күн бұрын

Sue his ass off!

Money can’t replace those hundred year old trees. I was just driving thru west coast of Washington. Those tree are so beautiful.

@hardwaylearnt

26 күн бұрын

So true!

This brought back a memory of a former employer's illegally cut Red Pine stand.The owner had 80 year old pines that had been planted in the 1920's,and maintained.One winter a logging crew moved into his pine forest and set up a saw mill,that cut all the logs on site into planks that were loaded on tractor trailers.The only mistake these thieves made was John Somerville who owned these trees,was not a man to be trifled with.He had deep pockets and left the loggers,truck drivers and anyone who bought his trees completely destitute.

@JohnP538

2 ай бұрын

As it should be. Watched a video where someone lost two large pecan trees to thieves The police basically shrugged it off.

@oscartheg6674

2 ай бұрын

Wow I appreciate that wow.

@tammylapointe3429

2 ай бұрын

And hiw did he do that?

@speedywalden

2 ай бұрын

He probably did this intentionally cause he's desperate for the money and knew you'd win in court, but he also knows it takes a lifetime to get that much back, and that's IF you ever get it through the courts

@jackbrydges7673

2 ай бұрын

It didn’t take a a day to cut down your trees where were you when this was going on. This happened to my dad 80 years a guy built a house and my dad hired a budozer a flattened his house don’t get mad get even.

There was a case in New Jersey where a neighbor intentionally had a tree service cut trees on a neighbors property because he wanted a better view of NYC from his home. Kinnelon County v Grant Harber. He plead guilty, and paid a fine to the courts for just over $13,000, but the there is a requirement that the home owner is required to replace the trees cut down, and that cost is around $1 million dollars. In this case, from the looks of the remains, the trees cut were Poplar, and White Oaks, most of which had internal rot. In your case, the cedar trees you lost were marketable lumber trees which further drives up the value. Steve Letho, a YT lawyer did a review of the story and the follow up after the guilty verdict. Letho also stated that in regard with trees, there is a provision of law called treble damages where you would be compensated 3X the value.

@Alwayswilling

2 ай бұрын

This is actually a tresspass,damage to your property and theft of valuable timber. You're likely safer to get some legal help and ought to raise as many points against this guy a you can. This was intentional. Frankly you've got him by the short and curlies so make him pay.

@t._._._.

2 ай бұрын

Cedar does rot internally when it's larger than about 12 inches in diameter. Still very valuable after milling though.

@gungadinn

2 ай бұрын

@@t._._._. I never stated that cedar rotted. I stated that the trees in the Harber case were Poplar and Oak and the pictures clearly showed internal rot. Cedar is one of those woods that are great for exterior use along with Hemlock. In the case of cedar, it's why shake shingles for roofing and siding are made of cedar. Hemlock makes good fencing material and is extremely rot resistant.

@Sailor376also

2 ай бұрын

That 3Xs is in Michigan. State by state, and three possible interpretations, board foot value, appearance or value of the aesthetic, and cost of replacement with similar. Ever tried transplanting a 100 year old tree?

@gungadinn

2 ай бұрын

@@Sailor376also I actually have very luck transplanting 2-3 year old trees. Impossible to transplant a tree that develops a deep tap root. You mean you don't have a time machine to be able to grow old growth trees overnight?

Sad. File a lien on the neighbors property as well as go after the logger and their company, also see if there was a forester involved . Good luck. I hope you update in the future.

@superdave8248

2 ай бұрын

No need to. The lawsuit will settle that and then some. I'm not joking when I say that unless the neighbor is a millionaire, he is likely to have to sell his property to begin to make restitution. And millionaires don't clear cut their property.

@TheAcenightcreeper

2 ай бұрын

Everyone who thinks that this will bankrupt the person…or you can file a lien…he doesnt have the ability to do so as a homeowner…the court can decide what incumberances to place on the property…also, this is going to be a difficult case to win because as it stands now, he doesnt have a recent survey done. My 38 acres was surveyed four times because the survey didnt match the recorded records, it was actually 4 acres bigger than records and title insurance wouldnt cover until i paid for two separate survey companies to perform two surveys…. This person states he used google maps, onX, gps…that wont hold up in court. I can tell you that it cost me $16k to have those surveys done…there is a chance that the corner posts were moved, tampered with, or simply not correct in the first place…you need a survey done recently to hold up…

@benwallace935

2 ай бұрын

He did have a recent survey. He said it in the video and in the comments.

@EthanPDobbins

Ай бұрын

​@@TheAcenightcreeperhe showed the markers on video and said clearly that he had multiple surveys done. He just used the apps while he was trying to figure out exactly how bad this was at the start.

@hardwaylearnt

Ай бұрын

@@TheAcenightcreeper bro. I had a survey done. I used onX to find the existing rebar pin on day one of discovering this then I had a surveyor record a survey. The pins were correct the logger was way off. Oddly, the neighbor said like a curmudgeonly ancient creep that my new fangled GPS couldn't be relied upon, even after the surveyor recorded a real deal survey and my timber guys counted the stumps on my side.

I'm sorry for your loss. I'm also in WA state and caught the logger next door red-handed stealing some of my trees. I filmed him climbing my fence to cut them. That logger lost his business once the community saw the footage.

Similar thing happened to us in Virginia. A neighbor was selling his stand of trees and encroached into our property. Luckily I was home when I heard the logging equipment getting close and walked out just in time before they started to cut several 200yr old oak trees on our property. Apparently the neighbor told him start cutting on our property, and eventually admitted his mistake, even though he marked about 20 of our trees. I don't buy it was a mistake because the guy was a complete asshole about the whole thing and knew what he was doing. Told him next time he sets foot on my property, was going to have him arrested for trespassing

@JuneSmith-pk4zc

2 ай бұрын

Have him arrestsd for thief.

@TheWestlandgirl

2 ай бұрын

He'd be buried in that soft logged dirt. Unlocatable.

@SifiFan

2 ай бұрын

Law is on the side of the criminal. Law of the land when remote. It's remote for a reason.

@bryanbressem5026

2 ай бұрын

Buried

@giles-df9yu

2 ай бұрын

I live in Virginia doing this has been very bad for people's health

The more this video went on the more intentional this looked. HWL is being kind calling this "trespass". This looks like pure timber theft. In some places you can get potential value out of the smaller trees they cut and left. I hope HWL gets everything owed along with legal expenses.

Man, I'm so sorry for your loss. The heartbreak and pain is evidenced in your voice and words. Crowd fund the legal expenses if you have to, but keep suing this awful neighbor and make them miserable until financial amends have been made. They stole something from you that you'll never get back in your lifetime. Peace, brother.

@ch34pskate16

2 ай бұрын

No need to crowd fund for this. The value in stolen lumber will definitely be covered in the settlement along with the personal attachment to the land. This guys getting paid!

@hardwaylearnt

Ай бұрын

This may take years. We may win in court but get not money out of it. but I did create a give send go. www.givesendgo.com/Hardwaylearnttrees

@Yolo_Swaggins

29 күн бұрын

@@ch34pskate16 You jealous or a tree thief or something? Weird comment to make IMO.

@KAISERDJG

28 күн бұрын

@@hardwaylearnt you could take thier property completely in the judgement, a bill has to be paid to you.

@Johnthecollie

5 күн бұрын

@@hardwaylearnt You'll get a 7 figure settlement in court. Lol if your neighbor or his lawyer tells you otherwise they are blowing smoke up your ass.

Have him arrested for grand theft ,criminal trespassing, and felony property damage and due him for how much you think trees were worth

@crazycdn8327

18 күн бұрын

Cops won’t, it’s a civil matter now. Maybe if they were caught in the act. But not after the fact. DA is unlikely to take it.

@timmoore9736

10 күн бұрын

The DA is likely to punt it back to the owner, as there are treble damages in Washington (as well as Oregon).

@mizpike1683

10 күн бұрын

Trees are extremely expensive! He owes you a bloody fortune! Go get him dude!

Hire a very good lawyer. They stole not only the lumber but the value of your property. Sue them until you own all of their property, your lumber they stole from you, and the lost value of your land. No different than robbing someone's bank safe deposit box.

@chiphazzard8173

2 ай бұрын

All that for messed up survey or a cutter that can't find boundary lines. You sound like the typical Sue happy commie.

@briangattis9045

2 ай бұрын

It was probably an honest mistake that two men should be able to come to terms, without lawyer's! This shit is why America is going to hell in a hand basket

@Durendal70

2 ай бұрын

@@briangattis9045 This was no simple mistake! Are you serious?! 350+ old growth PRIME cedar?! I’ve worked Right-of-Way - “a simple mistake” would be 10 to 20 trees! These thieves didn’t just clear cut they also specifically selected some of those trees - did you not watch the video?

@briangattis9045

2 ай бұрын

@@Durendal70 fair but we are only hearing one side, no one in their right mind would do that on purpose. Honestly it just seems like theirs more to the story. But you might be right! God bless and have a good one brother.

@ringlord555

2 ай бұрын

@@briangattis9045 iv been a logger for 15 years, this is not something you just gentlemen's agreement away, this is a sever overstep, 300+ cedar trees is not a small amount by any means. Iv seen company's go bankrupt for less. Not to mention that its literally where dudes backyard would have been.

Actually the Wind damaged tree is a result of logging. You take down the big trees they loose the wind block.

@DouglasHeyen

Ай бұрын

I said the same thing. Make sure to account for about a ten percent loss of the surrounding trees. Maybe more. Plus any they knocked the bark off off.

@carlsapartments8931

Ай бұрын

how do you know it was wind and not the equipment they were using that knocked it over

@ShawneenBear

Ай бұрын

Root damage will have occurred with any land vehicle opperating within your property as well.

@alexdenton1174

29 күн бұрын

​@@carlsapartments8931 Even the worst loggers would struggle to accidentally knock down 100yr old or more trees. They would have to be cut as root, rot and bark damage take years to bring down trees, even fully ringbarked need a good 5 years to fall. Wind however, given more surface area for the trees to act as giant sails, they are now 100 % acting as sacrificial dominoes (The now exposed trees aren't used to the high winds it will now be vulnerable to, they didn't need to grow strong roots like the outer ring set of trees) until a healthy centre canopy of trees re-emerges. This is especially true on high exposed windy terrain. Wind breaks for woodland is incredibly irritating to fix within our small lifespans.

@buckwild357

27 күн бұрын

Your right

I understand an idiot neighbor getting the bright idea to steal the trees but how did a professional logging company come in and remove logs without verifying the client’s ownership?

@nathandean1687

18 күн бұрын

most companies look the other way . just look how the epa operates.

@tuexss

16 күн бұрын

the company executing should be sued as well, as they were part in this and there's no excuse. probably the neighbour will try to put all blame on them.

@kenmaurer4743

15 күн бұрын

I'm guessing the loggers gave the guy a bid on logging his property, then saw the neighbor's trees and decided to make himself a lot of money..there's no way a reputable logging business, doesn't ask for property line coordinates and does their own survey or require the land owner to do so ,before beginning any logging..recently had a 4o acre bid on for logging..went through local forester..he verified boundaries..gave those GPS readings to the logger..everyone knew where the boundaries were

@southerner66

13 күн бұрын

Greed.

@sheilagadde5975

11 күн бұрын

That's Heartbreaking, but evil Theft.

This happened in jersey and the tree cutter had to pay millions. Not just the cost of the wood, it was the cost to restore the forest.

@robertgarrett3002

22 күн бұрын

Good point. Add the cost of replanting.

They seriously screwed up with this one, Washington is a timber State. Which means most of the economy in Washington started with timber farming, there are laws against this specific thing for that reason. And you know what? I hope this neighbor learns that the very hard way.This is also why there are lawyers that specialize in things such as tree law.

@thomasgirty6397

25 күн бұрын

HE may be saying"GOODBYE" to HIS property if your case goes like i think it will. greed never learn's , till you lose everything.

I saw a similar case a while back and the perpetrator was forced to pay replacement costs which were enormous. Basically what it would cost to restore the land. It was millions of $$$$.

@dannyv2335

2 ай бұрын

That was on Steve Lehto’s channel

@Arkryal

2 ай бұрын

These wouldn't qualify for replacement costs. The timber value is all you could get here, and they're not a high-value species. But Washinton State has Treble damages, so that means he is entitled to 3x the assessed value. Remember, "Timber value" is the value after harvesting, which severely depreciates the value of the trees, maybe $500 each on average when the math is all done. But 300 trees at $500 = $150,000 x 3 = $450,000. It adds up. Then there's the threat of erosion, and restabilizing the soil, which may now need re-grading, surveys of the geology, hydrology, etc. You can likely throw another $100k on top for the required earthworks.

@arribaficationwineho32

Ай бұрын

@@Arkryalthe land owner ws planning a home where the trees created screen for future home. This was intentional to harvest lovely old trees

@tubby921

Ай бұрын

@@arribaficationwineho32he wasn’t going to build one the side was going to sell his home with a “view of the city” for a higher price and hired a company to cut his trees down saying that there was permission.

@arribaficationwineho32

Ай бұрын

@@tubby921 but he didn’t. Now he can pay and pay for replanting

I'm sorry you have had the loss of the trees. I used to have property in lower western NY which had old old trees. One of the first things I did was walk out property line marking every tree, stump, dead fall, and boulder with neon orange paint. Mostly since it was prime hunting land and I had young children who played in the woods. I also put posted signs every 50 yds or so. My neighbors thought I was nuts but when a drunk hunter was removed from my property by the Sheriff, there were no arguments to be made. When my neighbor had loggers do his property and they got greedy and cut 2 trees on my property, my neighbor stopped them. He made the forman apologize and pay me for the trees, since they crossed the obvious Orange line. I hope the Judge and the State go hard on the loggers and your neighbor for not supervising them. Yours was not an end of the day cut. You also need to make them replant your property so you don't have erosion issues in the future.

People's lack of integrity and honesty is so sad.

I ran self loader log truck for 20 years in Washington State. I saw a few of these situations. From what I’m seeing is the land owner was a dirt bag and he hired a dirt bag “logger”. Logger worked on percentage, they were both in on it. This may not end well for you, guarantee they have done it before. You may get a judgement in court, but that doesn’t mean compensation

@MiikachuPatriot

2 ай бұрын

then the guy need a hot lead earring

@benjaminfernandez104

2 ай бұрын

give him a tattoo from a thousand yards away

@MrAngelarm13

2 ай бұрын

Might struggle to recover from the logger as they can just close and open again but the Naibor has property that can be leaned and auctioned

@michealtull9033

2 ай бұрын

I logged for 30 years in California and Oregon, and out here Timber piracy can get you fined and thrown in prison. I have seen it happen more than once .

@boossersgarage3239

2 ай бұрын

ur funny. compensation can be gotten is different ways... LOL

In some states you get triple the trees worth. Hope you go after the company that cut them down also, they have just as much responsibility if not more than your neighbor. The company should have known better than to do this.

@MiikachuPatriot

2 ай бұрын

exactly

@als8518

2 ай бұрын

Intentional is 10x value here. unintentional 3x.

@brianmedeiros417

2 ай бұрын

Treble. Not triple.

@MrDhalli6500

2 ай бұрын

@@brianmedeiros417 Please explain to me how you get treble damage? Treble is an adjustable frequency setting knob on stereo equipment.

@chriscordray8572

2 ай бұрын

6 times the value of the timber.

Also consider standing timber insurance. I failed to insure upwards of 4000 mixed conifer trees on 25 acres of my property. The USFS lost control of a prescribed burn which became the Hermit’s Peak/Calf Canyon Fire which also destroyed my home and everything I owned. The dwelling and its contents were underinsured which FEMA has compensated for, but they refuse to compensate for the destroyed timber resource because I had never sold any of the timber in any form or fashion, hence no basis for economic loss. So if a lousy thieving neighbor isn’t reason enough to insure timber, the U.S. Government certainly is.

There is no way that a reputable logging company would not verify the boundaries of the property that they are allowed to cut on. That logging company and the neighbor are both liable for what happened, and it is quite clear what happened given that about 98% of what was cut on your property was valuable trees. And you can clearly see the sudden turn in the cutting path, and the avoidance of the smaller non-valuable trees. I would also be asking for the mill to provide a record of what every log was used for. Was it all just cut into lumber, or did the mill pick out the biggest and best logs to sell at a premium rate to a custom furniture maker or other parties looking for large cedar logs. Some places make a lot of money cutting the logs into cross cut sections to make tables where you can see the tree rings. A 3" to 4" thick crosscut slab made into a live edge table can fetch $500 to $3,000 depending on width. So lots of value in a tall cedar tree, maybe more than what the tree/forest people have calculated.

@timmoore9736

10 күн бұрын

Except it appears they were maples. However, valuable points.

I've logged and I'm a landowner. My heart goes out to you. I always made sure I knew exactly where the property lines were and the law here is not to cut line trees and only half within 50 feet. Unfortunately the rule is to pay stumpage. I've always considered this to be wrong. As you've said here it takes decades or a century to grow a beautiful large tree. I hope you fare well with your battle. Blessings

Not sure where you're at, but in Oregon, if you steal trees, standard going rate is triple the stump value.

@hardwaylearnt

2 ай бұрын

Correct and when the guilty party refuses you have to go to court to get it. That is where we are.

@twinturbocoyoteftw

2 ай бұрын

If he couldn’t pay you I would definitely put a lien on his property.

@w8stral

2 ай бұрын

@@twinturbocoyoteftw Dude probably already sold that piece of property. That is usually what happens after they log.

@bassboy6963

2 ай бұрын

@@w8stralohh they still own something.

@w8stral

2 ай бұрын

@@bassboy6963 ... Guess you do not know how life works: Yes, they Own something, but GETTING its value is very hard and will cost you a lot of $$$. A piece of property you can put a lien on it eventually forcing the owner to sell and you get the proceeds. Trying to get your $$$ from them via courts is often near impossible in the legal system and by time lawyers get done, you gained next to nothing as the courts PURPOSEFULLY draaaaaaaagggg it out so they can rack up ever higher bills as they scratch each others backs...... Wake up bud. Life isn't about fairness and justice.

Alder is snapped off because 350 trees aren't there to protect it anymore

Had a similar issue on my tiny residential 1/2 acre which abuts a county park. My wife heard chainsaws that sounded way too loud and close to the house. She walked to the back fence and saw workers cutting down trees on our property, which includes some rough terrain that is outside the fence. They removed several Ashe Juniper trees (called cedars colloquially) and some oaks. They clearly had no idea where the property lines were even though I could have walked right to surveyors spikes on each corner and showed them - but they didn't ask. We contacted the county and eventually reached the right people and we were compensated for the trees. I'm glad I didn't have to sue anyone - we had to do that when the lady we hired to handle my parent's estate sale, took all the money from it and ghosted us. We sued and won, but it was a pain. Very sorry you are going through this. Stay focussed and don't let them get away with it.

You encountered professional thieves my friend, I truly hope you get some compensation for your loss, though it cannot be replaced...😢 I would request that you get wood from your neighbors lot to replace what you lost, it would send a message, and let him know how it feels...

@superdave8248

2 ай бұрын

Sadly it won't. And any trees left were either to difficult to get to or too small. This was a clear cut. They take anything of value.

This was totally intentional, you don't go 100ft into someone's property without knowing

@keralee

7 күн бұрын

Agreed! GPS exists and pretty much everyone has it so there are no excuses. It was intentional. And no doubt because the actual value of the finished lumber is 30x more than stumpage value.. So from the loggers/mill perspective they made money even if they lose the lawsuit.

They took your trees because they’re easier to harvest. That corner on their side rolls off steep. Probably thought that you’d never notice. Highly likely that this was intentional. Your neighbor AND the logger is responsible. Considerations for compensation; loss of lumber value, loss of view, cost to replace trees.

Well I’d count the wind blown too. They wouldn’t be coming down if the support trees weren’t removed. You will start to see this more and more with that huge gap removed. Make sure to ask about that with loggers. They will tell you about it wind damage with what remains. You may be able to get a bit more

It's not only the timber value, but also the aesthetic value, especially since you wanted those trees to be a visual buffer. When is the trial?

@hugh_jorgan633

Ай бұрын

Aesthetic value isn't real

@joewoodchuck3824

Ай бұрын

@@hugh_jorgan633 How so?

@airenesmiler6624

Ай бұрын

@@hugh_jorgan633 It depends on where you live, in some places neighbours have sued homeowners for cutting trees that were on the homeowners land and won due to loss of privacy etc.

@louskunt9798

Ай бұрын

It’s all good though. The replacement trees will grown up and everything will look normal in only about 80 years. 😂🤣✌️

@Yutani_Crayven

Ай бұрын

@@hugh_jorgan633 In this case, it should be about cost of replacement. An appropriate penalty would be life in prison equal to the lifetime of the oldest trees that were cut. That, or replacement by transplant of all the lost trees.

Wow. Man I hope you get full justice on this in court.

@2pugman

2 ай бұрын

A friend of mine owned a property with old cherry trees on it. Someone removed the trees and nobody was caught.

Good luck...same thing happened to me on our property shortly after my husband passed. As soon as the neighbor heard from my attorney, he declared bankruptcy and we had to attach the insurance company. Had a 50,000.00 estimate of stolen trees, damage and reparation, and in Ohio, should have been treble damages, but after 3 years of litigation, back and forth, only recouped 18,000 and out of that was the attorney fees. Justice was not done. Hopefully you fare better

Be sure to include any trees that were damaged during logging.

This happen by my mom's house and the logger had to pay for replacing the trees which is a lot more than the timber price. Good luck. They should have known

@lebotnov66

2 ай бұрын

If I were the judge, I'd have the neighbour pay the amount he received from the mill, plus 10% AND have him bear the cost of planting the same number of trees but of higher value. There's got to be some sort of penalty. otherwise, how do you discourage the neighbour from doing this to someone else? The neighbour can try to go after the company he hired for partial reimbursement if he so chooses (Good luck with that!) Too often in our courts these days, people get off with a slap on the hand, if the prosecutor's office and/or the police even choose to pursue it! I've seen on some court cam videos that at least in Texas there is often restitution owed, written in a court order, to victims of theft, to be paid by the thieves! YAY! I wish courts everywhere did this and not only for monetary losses!!!! Too many kids these days learn that there often aren't consequences, besides a telling-off at the most, for their actions. In the public school system here in Ottawa, Canada the teachers can only keep kids in from recess (But give up their own break times) or send the kid to the vice-principal's office (Where they just sit) for any wrongdoings. The kids can't be given extra work, can't be kept after school, can't be given lines to write ..! One grade-3 girl threatened to bring a knife to school the next day and kill everyone. Want to know what happened? Nothing! Absolutely nothing!!! When are the leaders of our education systems going to learn that they have ventured down the wrong paths? When are our justice systems going to start holding people seriously accountable? Perhaps, for minor offences only, the youth need to spend a year doing civilian service: yard maintenance for seniors, planting trees, hospital orderly, roadside and in-the-park garbage picking, graffiti removal, planting flowers and decorative plants in lower-income neighbourhoods, cleaning up around abandoned buildings/properties ... Get the idea? Inmates in prisons should be required to work, producing items that can be sold to help pay for their "room and board" plus the other associated costs. They could also work in a laundry facility on prison grounds where they do the laundry for shelters, public old age homes and hospitals, train therapy dogs, and farming (minimum security only) ... This would be a partial paying of their debt to society. I believe this would be somewhat "Fair", don't you?

@kpdvw

2 ай бұрын

the same need to apply to metal recyclers who buy stolen Cataytic converters....!

@giles-df9yu

2 ай бұрын

Make him put back the same age tree he removed and guarantee them to live

I do have experience in Surveying and I have to tell ya' that this all looks Blatant to me. Like they purposely, knowingly logged your tree's, may in hopes that a good neighbor would turn his other cheek! Someone needs to be taught a lesson and a good one at that. Go after the whole bunch!

Trees have two values. First is the lumber value and second is the landscape value. This are two totally different numbers. The board foot value of a tree is a lot less than the landscape value. A cedar might have a board foot value of $200 to $1000 but as a landscape value it is in the tens of thousands. Purdue University has a book that has the landscape value of almost every species of timber in the US and Canada.

TREEEEE LAWWWWWW can't wait to see how this plays out love hearing about tree law cases

What I would be fighting for is a lot addition that takes approx. 150ft (width) of there property the full length of yours. This will hopefully get you the value in trees back and keep your privacy. Oh the joys of neighbors these days. Best of luck!

This is ; theft for financial gains, tresspasing, destruction of property, ect. Careless and reckless concern for others property. I would file suit for no less than 30 million , plus any and all fees incurred including attorney fees, court fees , but NOT limited to.

@thomasgirty6397

25 күн бұрын

pretty sure the Forestry Service will want a word also. and the state permitting office(if there was one)

Tree rustling is a long held family tradition in the Ozarks. If you leave for vacation you will have no trees when you come back. My fIL lived in Marshfield, MO and his next door neighbor, a man he had great relations with, "accidently" came onto his property and cut a big walnut valued at probably $5000. Many of the residents tolerate, no promote, this type of behavior.

My thumbs up is for your content and displays my complete disbelief of a neighbor trespassing like this. Stunning. Take it to them and his land too!

It was obviously intentional. No one owns property without knowing where the property lines are. This should have been charged as grand theft. It was no accident and the neighbor knew exactly what he was doing. Regardless of board cost this neighbor did serious damage to your lands value. Esthetics plays a big part of land valuations and 100 year old trees adds great value to a property. Sorry for your loss my friend.

@ytcommentor

2 ай бұрын

Forget grand threat. Tree law can be harsh. Very harsh.

@JamesCzerwinski-zk4qu

Ай бұрын

The loggers are scum also and liable

@tennesseeterri

18 күн бұрын

TONS of owners THINK they know where their property lines are. Many of them are very wrong.

@timmoore9736

10 күн бұрын

@@tennesseeterri However, the law is crystal clear that they have a duty to ascertain where the property line is before cutting up to it. And the pins were right where they were supposed to be.

@tennesseeterri

10 күн бұрын

@@timmoore9736 yes you are right, I absolutely agree!

We were building a road into a remote mine in northern BC , the logging contractor was coming up to the end of the project ahead of us , we use to fly in with choppers , there was an area near the end that had the best timber of the whole 30 km of road , he came to there and widened the right away about 3 times wider , we had to stop his logging operation down , he was claiming they were danger trees

Sue not only for money, but get them to replant three trees for every three that they cut down. 💙 T.E.N.

I feel for U guys. As you mentioned, this act can only be classified as deliberate & greed. Money aside… you can’t get those trees back. They are irreplaceable! I think a land transfer strip with trees is in the cards as a buffer if nothing else as you had mentioned, plus $$ damages, income lose $$, plus your legal fees and whatever else. Put a lien on his assets / property until all get resolved. Best of luck in a quick resolution.

@thomasgirty6397

25 күн бұрын

dont forget clean up and remediation to keep erosion from starting.

Pretty sure you were gonna use all those cedar for a huge log house. Now not possible. Make them pay for future gains also. Now you're 100 years behind.

The trees they left are done, too. They’ll decline with the huge influx of sunlight. Not to mention the invasive control you’ll have to invest in for 3-5 years if you’re not going to just spray everything.

The fact that is cut the deepest into the property on the far side of the property sure feels like they hoped no one would notice.

This happened to my Uncle a few years back, but not nearly as bad as your loss. He sued the neighbor and got not only the value of the trees, but also replacement value... which is much higher. He was awarded $20,000 a tree, your lawsuit also needs to include the replacement value of the trees, to make you whole again, because you didn't intend for the trees to be cut, so the timber value isn't sufficient.

This carnage just makes me sick to my stomach. This is just inexcusable! It's a good thing our home site wasn't violated like this. I am sorrier than I can say -- we're in North Central Florida and our trees are very important to us. I can only tell you that I am so very sorry this has happened. I don't know how anyone could be that crass and insensitive to the difference between doing the right thing and, as in this instance doing the wrong thing. This is straight out and out theft in more ways than one. You need to be sure you claim for the cleanup required by their stupid logging operation. Leaving all that mess behind is also inexcusable.

In 2017, the city of Seattle fined a group of homeowners $500k for removing about 150 scrub maples and alders to improve their view. The size of your loss of valuable timber is so much larger. With treble damages, you'll likely be awarded millions.

@thomasgirty6397

25 күн бұрын

guy wanted your tree's. now YOU may end up with all his property and probly his money too.

The expense of a lawyer, the fact they destroyed your property, the trespass, the profit at your expense, even the environmental impact makes me livid and I don’t even own it. I can’t imagine the absolute rage you have for what indignation and ignorance your neighbour has done to your home. And that is what it is! Your property, your home! I’m so sorry this happened to you. Your moron neighbour is in for a big comeuppance. He should owe you millions. I checked a tree calculator and you’re looking at aprox $5,000 a tree. Times that by 350 and that 1.75 million. Add all the damage to property, inconvenience, emotional damage, monetary damage to fight this and property worth its well over 2 million.

@thomasgirty6397

25 күн бұрын

not counting clean up and repair to head off erosion on that slope. there is a reason nobody cut there for 80 to 100 year's.

Wow, all those beautiful trees gone, that is some serious money right there! The damage cannot be replaced in ones lifetime. Wishing you the best outcome.

So sorry this happened to you. I logged 20 in Issaquah in 1989 and my logger made a mistake and cut one of my neighbors cedar trees. The tree was worth about $1,000 at the time and I paid him $3,000 for my Logger's mistake. It was triple damages for an accidental harvest of a tree and I gladly paid it because that is what good neighbors do. Your trees might not be as big as mine were but still they were probably worth at today's prices over $400,000. With just even triple damages your neighbor owes you $1.2 million. Willfulness and negligence and legal expenses should make it way more. I hope you get some justice.

Kind of hard to think he didn't do that on purpose, especially when none of his trees were cut, and he took the biggest most valuable trees.

350 cedars will have raked in a tidy haul of cash. Decades ago i was a saw mill engineer and I was reasonably conversant with prices paid for logs, especially mature healthy timber. In the country where I was living, that number of logs would bring in $350,000 before costs. Today? 7 figures easily given the species and the difficulties involved in buying timber for building projects.

@w8stral

2 ай бұрын

Cedar when they cut this was ~$1000/mbf. None of those stumps shown have a 1000 bf per tree, those were tiny and low grade cedar. So, at most those trees ~$750/mbf at best. 350 trees by at most 500bf per tree ~--> Still over $100k and since the logging equipment was already there.... the costs were LOW for the logger/land owner.

The lumber is still yours, along with the value of the live trees and devaluation of the property. If they sell the lumber now, it is criminal theft. Go after the loggers too. You get paid for every aspect in this.

The mill never paid a dime more for timber when 2x4s were 10$ and plywood was 80$ at the big box store.

@w8stral

2 ай бұрын

Mill's do not make the money selling. The mark up was done at the retail end, not the logger or mill end, they saw ZERO, in fact log prices DROPPED.

@jameswilson5813

2 ай бұрын

​@w8stral 100% false! I work in the lumber industry in Washington state and the mills were making a killing. Was literally told by the mills to pay the huge mark up or they'd ship it to Arizona and Texas where they would happily pay the huge price. Hampton, Alta, Washington timber, Beck all profited big time. Hampton bought 145000 acres from weyerhaeuser and jacked up prices to compensate for the large purchase. They took advantage of the situation in 2021.

@w8stral

2 ай бұрын

@@jameswilson5813 Try a calendar... You might have noticed this guys land was cleared in 22' when the prices for logs had already fallen off a cliff to below half genius. Do try to keep up on the slow coach at least hrmm? The ocean dear genius does not GO to Arizona... suggest a map. Ship it... Uh huh, SUUUURRREEEE. Arizona doesn't have a port..... Western Red Cedar is effectively never used outside of the PNW other than shakes if even that. It is a garbage wood unless you can get your hands on old growth 100+ years old. You might have noticed but NO ONE is putting WOOD on their homes exterior anywhere anymore.

Thank you for this video. I had 12 acres of timber stolen by squatters. I can’t find an attorney to file the lawsuit. I am aiming to sue the logging company because they know me and knew that I own the land. They did it anyway. It was a felony and someone needs to pay. The land was beautiful and serene. Very tall pines. All gone. It looks like the surface of the moon now. I want replacement value. I’m open to suggestions and strategies. Thanks again.

Personally i would be devastated. You cant replace them. The entire environment is changed. Im so sorry.

I hope you are suing the logging company as well!!

@tonysimons7218

2 ай бұрын

Unless the neighbor logged it himself, the logger is the responsible party, not the neighbor.

@giles-df9yu

2 ай бұрын

No they both are.

@tonysimons7218

2 ай бұрын

@@giles-df9yu negative

@outdoorslifesurvivecraft5078

2 ай бұрын

@@tonysimons7218 probably so. However if the neighbor knew that they were cutting right up to the property line he was negligent, for not clearly marking that line.

@tonysimons7218

2 ай бұрын

@@outdoorslifesurvivecraft5078 it’s not the owners responsibility to mark the property line for a logger. If you hire someone to paint your house pink and give them you address and they paint your neighbors house instead is that your fault too??🤣 Loggers, foresters and timber buyers contract a timber deed which includes the property legal location & description.

Also they may have had a climbing crew come in prior to cutting to harvest the boughs. Cedar boughs are exceedingly valuable as well and require permitting. Boughs can bring 30 to 50% the value of the timber itself.

I feel your pain. Washington state law requires that the perimeter of the area to be logged must be flagged (I had my 5-1/2 acre property in PO County logged so I could build) and I had to hire a forester to come out to flag the property before it could be logged. I specifically told the forester I wanted a 75' buffer of trees around my property near the road, which they adhered to. In order to do a responsible job the property owner has to hire a responsible forester (obviously your neighbor didn't). Also, a responsible logger wouldn't do any logging unless the area to be logged was properly flagged. However, hiring a responsible logger can be tricky. The logger that logged my property took a lot of shortcuts and ultimately left a mess that I'm still cleaning up. He shoved all the stumps and slash from the clearing where the cabin was going up against the live trees so I had to hire another contractor to come out and pull the slash away from the trees so I could burn it. In the other areas of the property he just cut the trees, then limbed them and left the slash where it fell - I'm still cleaning that up after 5 years. Looking back, I would not recommend either my logger or the forester who were best friends. The forester said he would check back during the logging operation to make sure everything was going according to plan, but he never came on site once after the logging began. When I complained about the mess the logger left, he stood up for the logger? - mind you I was paying the forester. The original forester I wanted to hire didn't work in PO County (he had done a forestry management plan for me in Stevens County). I sent him videos of the site and he agreed the logger did a really shitty job and he wouldn't hire him to do any work for him.

@hardwaylearnt

Ай бұрын

Yes the owner, logger, and forester are all named in our suit.

He assumed you would never notice. He can now make it good

Thats how we got our homestead. My Uncle bought the 100acres about 25 yrs ago from the bank. The people who owned had it logged and got off on a neighoring property. They got sued and lost the property. When my Uncle bought it. The biggest tree left was about 8 inches. We bought it from 3yrs ago. So now the woods are big and open and beautiful. I hope everything works out for you like it did for us. Who knows you have most if not all your property paid for.

@JohnnyDanger36963

26 күн бұрын

cool,put a parking lot and a McDonald's on it.

I feel your pain. We have a scumbag neighbour that built a shop Partially on our property and now acts like we are unreasonable and shouldn’t harass him about it.

@EthanPDobbins

Ай бұрын

If it's 6 inches id say let it go. 6 feet? Cut a door hole into your half and go build a wall inside 😂 Free storage for your boom box that plays nothing but crying baby noises on repeat

@michaelgehrmann5331

17 күн бұрын

Lien and charge rent.

As an ex-forestry technician, no log is unmarketable as every single part brings some sort of revenue. Even the smallest trees (less than 20 inch) can sell for wood chips (presswood (saw dust particulates and chips), mulch, plywood wood and such). I would recommend to plant Tamarack ( Larix laricina ) or a similar variety (Larix occidentalisas) it is a fast grower (.5m/yr, 1.6ft), can (on average reach 25 m high (66ft) and a diameter of 60cm (23inch) and live up to 150yrs. $ 1 500/Mpmp (1000 ft mesured planks) and more for exterior products (finished profiled patio components, paneling, etc) & $ 3000/mpmp and more for profiled interior finishes.

I am terribly sorry this happened to you! I hope you get every penny those trees were worth AND the cost of the view! also, that area looks VERY much like where my parents are homesteading. Sadly, fire burned almost every tree they had a few years back.

OMG this makes me sick! So sorry this happened. It isn't just the financial loss, it's the loss of wildlife and health from no longer having a restful forest to walk in and enjoy. Clean them out.

My neighbor was clearing some land and when he got within 100 yards of the property line, he called me. We found the pins and agreed where the property line were and what trees he would harvest for me. No problem what so ever.

@hardwaylearnt

Ай бұрын

thats how it should go.

You have my deepest sympathy.

Can sympathise. Living in the middle of a large city, my parents planted trees around the property line, inside of a fence. Dad went out one day and found that half a dozen had been "topped" to be used as Christmas trees. No where as valuable as your loss, but still a bummer. Wow, those are big trees, what species? What value at the mill? They wouldn't be making Cedar 2x4s, cedar would be made into higher value planks. It is easy for fellers to get turned around unless there are VERY clearly marked boundaries. I spent a summer doing exactly that. Working for a logging company who had trespassed on reserved land next to a park. They were required to hire me to clearly mark the boundary to prevent any more trespass that would result in serious fines.

In Michigan the damages are triple

Why cut my tree's down when I can cut yours down and still have mine. Some people. The neighbor is probably well connected if it's been over a year.

Not sure what kind of damages will be required but this is very serious. Better get personal protection in additional to all the lawyers you have on the case. It is not just the value of the trees but it has actually changed your property from what you were expecting to have. The real value was what you paid for not what the trees were worth. The damage is stunning!

My husband and I own property on the mount loop in Wa. We had a person we hired to cut down 4 leaning trees come in to our property, scheduled for late August, when we were not there. Against our wishes, as we had asked to have this done in August, he came in during the month of September, busted in our gate, and cut over 50 trees. Then started selling them as fire wood etc. We went up Labor day weekend, to find that he had cut them, and bulldozed 1/3 acre of the property. Unfortunately he lives in a trailer he does not own, on property he rents, and owns nothing. So our only recourse was small claims court with no chance of recovery of anything. I mean you cannot recover 100 year old trees period, but there should have been some consequences. It devastated us. We did have a forest ranger come in to inspect if there were any cedar trees cut as that is a federal offense, (Cedar is protected in Washington) but he was smart enough not to do that. At least you are fighting a neighbor who has property and lawyers will help. Every lawyer we talked to said there was nothing we could do. We have since planted 200+ trees to try to bring back the beauty of the land.... but it about killed me to see all that and then learn we could do nothing. I am wishing you all the luck here my friend.

@hardwaylearnt

17 күн бұрын

I am so sorry to hear this. This is terrible and not far from our land.

@dieselblazehaze-desireiona6910

17 күн бұрын

​@@hardwaylearnt The rangers told us they have suspected him for some time of illegally harvesting wood. Sadly this did not change anything.

Good you got the state in this. Here in west Virginia you cut on someone else's property you get find up to 10 times the tree value and pay 5 times value in court. Hope things work out for you.

Im about to go through the same ordeal here in Mississippi. We had a tornado slam us last year . The neighbor called a crew in to salvage down timber well the crew crossed the property line and took some huge white oak and red oak 30+ inches wide . I didn't know this till after deer season ended this year when out scouting.

@justadbeer

2 ай бұрын

I feel your pain. I had a dirtbag neighbor cut down a couple of my oaks, and just like you, I found them after deer season while rabbit hunting. I couldn't prove he did it, but he's the only one that had access as his property abuts mine. Guy ended up in prison from trying to diddle one of his foster children.

@dustyking8851

2 ай бұрын

OMG.... I remember my mother's property after Katrina, she lost 3 oaks, they were at least 200 hundred years old. That was a insane disaster and it was still gut wrenching to see. Can't imagine how he feels about a filthy thief.

WOW ! a simple case of timber theft and u should be getting his property in compensation!! plus MILLIONS in damages WOW!! both companies were in on it....get ur money from them !! hire a VERY good lawyer!!! what bastards ....put the dude in jail !

Tears in my eyes from scotland.

Sorry that happened you, that musta really hurt! Stick it to them as much as you can!!!

I’ve had a similar situation but we live so far from the property it’s hard to know exactly who’s done it. Massive trees over 150’ tall on a river property. They cut around all of the bases to kill the trees. We believe it’s the people who own a mansion on the hill above the property. Setup trail cameras but it’s already too late.

@leroychapman5903

2 ай бұрын

This exact thing happened to me I was blocking there view and it was what they used as a reason to cut my trees the problem there is no harsh penalty for this is 😢

That first old growth cedar stump you showed us broke my heart. If it was my property, I probably would’ve left that tree. I have a pristine maple on my property that’s probably about 175 years old with really nice girth at the bottom going up a decent height before it starts to split off. Between the good lumber wood and the firewood that the tree would harvest I could make a pretty penny. However the tree has stood a long time and I love it. It’s earned its right to stand and legally I am the only person who has a say in what happens to it. Just as you legally had a say in what happened to those trees. Some you may have harvested and some you would’ve wanted to keep and that was your decision and your decision only. Take that neighbor for everything you lost. I’m assuming you have a lawyer who specializes in tree law because it is a specialty. It’s not just the value of the lumber, it is the value of replacing the tree. An old growth tree can be worth 100s of thousands of dollars! If your lawyer does not specialize in tree law, please consult one. This is not just about the lumber.

Well, this video just got you a sub who is eagerly awaiting the outcome and whatever you put out next.

Its not the 2 million in loss of lumber that they got at those high prices its the loss of your beautiful tranquility that you will never get back

I can tell you from experience you can seek 3 times the value for each tree that was cut had a close call with that when I was working for a logger and we bought some trees and the guy next to him thought we were cutting on him and we ended up going to court and that's what the judge said if they would have been on his property he could have sued for three times the value for each tree

they knew exactly where they were cutting. 100 year old growth is worth more than new growth

This is what started the Hatfield and McCoy feud. I had this same problem with a neighbor. He had trees on my side marked to cut. Luckily I saw this before the trees were cut. I also already knew the logger. I told the neighbor I didn't want to argue but if he cuts anything on my side I would see him in court. I showed the logger where the property line was and he told me not to worry. Big problem averted!!!

It's not just the trees but they greatly devalued your property for a hundred years.

I must say the value of the lumber plays no part because you wanted trees not lumber. How much does it cost to plant 300 trees that are 100 years old in that location? You lost 100 year old trees not lumber. It was far more than 2x4s to you.

Buddy, I hope you have good lawyers who run the gambit on the damage this will cause. Not only did they destroy your land value, rob you of the actual value of the timber, etc. but that tree snapping like that IS from the logging and not having those bigger trees as a windbreak. This can cause serious issues with your property as well. I would suggest you have someone that does farm and agricultural land surveying come in and give you a detailed right up on how this will affect your property in the next 5, 10, 20 years as far as wildlife, soil fertility, water retention and travel through the property, regrowth, fire protection, resale value, livestock raising, so on and so forth. Deforestation to this degree even on a smaller farm or homestead can be UNBELIEVABLY devastating. Especially to the wildlife and and dream of doing real permaculture work. I could write a book here about all the problems this is almost certain to cause with invasive species and pests and possible fire issues etc. but I don’t want to take up too much space. PLEASE do as much research as possible on how this can mess with the vision you have for you land and talk to other farmers and homesteaders who have been around for a while. They may come up with things you never thought of so you can better prepare for or prevent them, and so you can hold this jackass accountable. The logging company too! This was undeniably intentional. If he ever logs again, invest in cameras along your property line. With a neighbor like this it will be well worth it. I’m so sorry you are going through this. Don’t stop until you get a lawyer who understands how to work this case and a judge or appellate court that truly gets the wound this has cause your family for literal generations to come.

ok, here's my two cents worth as a forester and a logger having worked extensively over on the west side: don't worry, i'm on your side on this issue, although it may not have that aura.... my read on this project is that your neighbor set himself up to highlead log his property in the coming months or next year or two. had he stayed on his side of the property line, he would have to build road along the line. that would have rendered logging it as a losing proposition. road building on the west side is nutso expensive so he wanted to stay up on the flat with the yarder... so he went and juiced your piece of ground to pay for who knows what. the view at 11:52 shows what looks to be an old road cut he plans to use as a temporary road when he goes to log his own ground later. shovel logging on his side or cat logging it is too steep, also any CTL option is off the table. heli-logging is so insanely expensive that he wouldn't have made any money on the timber either. at first glance of the stumps you showed, the neighbor didn't make out nearly as good as you think. just about all of your cedars are cat-faced and show some pretty gnarly stump rot. the rot usually goes up a ways into the bole. one of the pics you showed of cruiser measuring the still standing cedar for representative sample at 4:12 shows a lot of taper in the first 10 feet rising off the ground. that again indicating some pretty bad stump rot and a cat face on the left side of the tree just behind the guy measuring. extreme butt flare in cedar is only seen in injured trees, in healthy ones they are close to cylindrical almost to the ground if the logs go to the mill with that butt rot not cut out, scalers tend to get some really long thumbs... and so they dock the snot out a load when their scale rule goes up into the butt of the log half the length of the rule or more. that's why loggers like to throw a bunch of mud into the hole and camouflage it. you don't have any timber that can be classified as old growth. you're on a piece of ground with 2nd or 3rd growth timber on it that has been logged within the last 40 years which is why your cedar is so badly scarred up. size of the trees is no indicator of old growth status. reading the stumps, you see some fairly large growth rings all the way out to the bark. that indicates exponential growth which means the tree is still developing its crown and hasn't entered into a slow growth phase yet. that usually occurs when the crown is at its fullest and crowding of the stand prevents it from developing any more in width and the canopy has closed in where sunlight can no longer reach the forest floor now onto the legal side of things: at some point the washington DNR is going to jump into the middle of this and make a big splash. no matter what you do now, count on getting sued by DNR for not having submitted a harvest plan and a regeneration plan. you are in the peoples republic of washington afterall. if you're in spotted owl or marbled murrelet territory you might lose your shirt. as a property owner you are liable for any harvesting activities legal or illegal that occurs on your ground and since no bond was posted for your portion of the harvesting activities, you could be in for some really nasty surprises. rest assured this will play out for at least another decade or more before you ever see a resolution. let me illustrate a little how a stump cruise works: a scaler will measure a stump diameter, if it's nice and round he only has to measure one way. but in those cat faced stumps he has to get an average, so he measures the short way and then long way and takes an average. then that is multiplied by the use of numbers on what's called a "D-tape" as a 16 foot log. that gives you an estimate of the volume of usable timber in the tree based on scribner scale. the actual volume can be more than double that if the timber is relatively straight and tall. yours probably didn't go much over 100ft in height, which is pretty much the norm for most regen timber on the west side. so those figures are usually in the ballpark. in your position i would pre-emptively contact DNR to get the ball rolling against your neighbor so he can't weasel his way out. by doing so, the wrath of DNR against you won't be near as damaging in the long run. no matter what, this incident will end up on DNR's radar and you will be wishing later it hadn't. chances are he will either write everything over to his wife and pawn the whole thing off on her or the mill for long thumbing the scale yada yada yada... or some other stupid shit he can dream up. my guess it that this isn't his first rodeo and thought he'd pull a fast one on you city slickers. yours is by no means the largest timber theft i've seen. it's more common than you think, especially on the west side where there are still several mills that don't ask where the timber they're taking in has been cut. if a mill disavows any knowledge of timber poaching, they are usually taking all of it they can, especially the stud mills. nobody really wants that doghair stuff. before you even think about turning a spade to build on your ground, go find out from the county zoning commission if you even can. lots of timbered ground on the west side is off limits to residential use as most of it is zoned for timber production. you may have to get it re-designated if you plan on taking up residence there. also, a trip to DNR will reveal any critical habitat designations that may be in place or any conservation easements. i don't mean to rain on your parade any more than it already has been. but your plight is all too common over there on the west side and more often than not, nothing constructive ever comes out of these situations. if your lawyer is any good at all, he will probably already clued you in to what shitshow is headed your way. best of luck mike .

@hardwaylearnt

Ай бұрын

thanks a lot of that are things I was already aware of. I had the DNR come out and they wanted nothing to do with this side of the property. It was a red flag to me at the time how dismissive they were of looking at it. Sounds like I need to push a bit harder there.

@hardwaylearnt

26 күн бұрын

Thanks I did check with the county and do pre-permitting for my project to be sure that I would not run in to building moratoriums and the like. Now, I just went back to my forestry consultant that did my stump cruise and they were aware of my plans from the get go. I directly asked them, Is DNR going to screw me over here and slap me with a building permit moratorium keeping me locked out of building my home for the next 7 years. The answer shook me. It was like ... Well Maybe. and I'll check. So if this theft locks us out of being able to build that IS worth Millions to me. My kids will be adults before that time is up. I'm waiting to hear back. Updates to follow.