Nuance! One thing I always appreciate about your content is that you'll engage with the serious issues seriously and articulately, while also looking at things with more than just "thing good, other thing bad" mentalities. My overall thoughts on this format are that it is very very fun to launch power punches at opponents, the raised ceiling means that everything feels very very strong, and the decks are so tuned that you can enjoy how much you're able to do with your cards (and potentially even marvel at your opponents' cards' capabilities) However, this format also highlights an issue that has been baked into D since it started, the disparity between trigger power and shield meaning that there are less efficient answers to lucky triggers. If a turn 4 explosion deck like Ignis sacks you or manages to rush you successfully, you might not have the tools to compete properly in return. SO, the issues are not with the cards within the format themselves, they are, as always, in the cracks of the design that bushi has implemented. I sincerely hope they address them, and am looking toward the Triple Drive Booster with hope of that!

@reversal3628

9 ай бұрын

From more draw power to get trigger for guarding to I'd rather damage check it. Guard with trigger save you from 1 attack, but check the trigger may save you for whole turn with 10k buff. That's excellent proved lack of defensive creeps.

Thing is vanguard had a healthy pase, yugioh is beyond fast, pokemon and magic can take ages, vanguard never felt too long or too quick

@GhostGK21

9 ай бұрын

I feel the same!

@naiustheyetti

9 ай бұрын

legion and mid g begs to differ.

@orionsadventure3511

9 ай бұрын

Going fast makes me feel alive

@ShioriSaya422

9 ай бұрын

I feel the same way too.

@rensuzugamori2531

9 ай бұрын

@@orionsadventure3511my heart beats in hyperdrive.

Videos encouraging discussions like this are always welcomed in my book~ Aggresive decks like we are having post-DBT13 might pose problems, but I believe they are parts of natural phase in TCG. Slow format might be beginner-friendly and giving more opportunities to express each other decks, but might be boring for some people. Fast format might be, well, faster and suitable for big-scale tournaments, but might put off some people trying to enter those tournaments. The key is in my opinion is balance. If hyper-aggro decks are being meta-relevant, there should be enough supports for slower decks to have chances against those aggro decks. However, those supports should not completely shutdown the opposing decks, but reduce their aggro somehow significantly, or at least make the slower decks are able to survive the agrression, to encourage each deck to improve and adapt new strategies/cards while maintaining the interaction, rewards for playing, and especially, feeling of fun.

I have lots of things to say, but really can't express them through youtube comments, but my general feeling can be summarised as "I am really thankful for you publicly defending Vanguard." Definetly one of my favourite youtubers.

@MrJigglebits

9 ай бұрын

Vanguard players do the worst job making their game seem appealing

Looking forward to the next meta analysis!

I think the reason they listed minerva and jet specifically being good against something like siana is because they have a lot of RGs that plug themselves into soul/shuffle themselves/retire themselves after attack and since those self removal effects proc first before siana's banish she doesnt really cause the opponent to go minus

I can understand that. But I think with vanguard’s heavy dependent on your hand to do something. So like if you guard then you can’t attack back or you take damage and get closer to death before doing anything.

Very well said

DF Please make video based on B-Hero, the silent PR+13 upgrade is very strong with 9 cards thining within turn 3 and that makes trigger rate surprisingly rose up It seems quite underrated for the first couple weeks but in future they will realize

I feel like I agree with you a lot more than I don't, but either way I dive deeper and evolve my own thoughts by adding yours to mine. I am guilty of assuming the game was getting faster and stuff. I just parroted what I was hearing online and I feel bad that I'm even late to this video. I like this perspective and honestly going into DivineZ, I really hope that we get more control variants and defensive mechanics. Just like Kai mentioned on the adding 4 cards video, this is a really good chance to add more shield especially with the energy resource on the horizon. I'm right there with you on wanting more defensive options. I prefer to play aggro/tempo style decks, but for the people who do want to play a slower game. Maybe not Snorlax Stall level slow, but it would be nice to have some dedicated control playstyles like Siana or early Prison kinda. Vanguard deserves to be well-rounded and I feel like it doesn't stretch its legs into that slower side of the graph. There's plenty of design space they could explore. Siana is proof of that. Considering the fact the game is shifting dramatically with DivineZ, I think this meta is a fantastic peak without being too much.

As a newbie who started on playing dear days i think about what the Japanese player said everyday too whenever i vs mika with the "don't hold back" d skill on.

It's interesting cause sets 3-6 people said the game was too slow from plays who stopped focusing on D and moved to V or P

@CassiopeiaOnYT

9 ай бұрын

And I’m one of the minority who kinda liked the format because I prefer slower formats being a primarily control player and all. Needless to say I am not a fan of the current pace, but since a majority of the player base prefers faster games, I kinda have to cope with it.

@snadiarunsharess5497

9 ай бұрын

I like fast games, and yea, set 3-6 pace was not for me, so in that time I Have quickly shifted to Premium

The amount of doom posting that Vanguard players do is almost tiring to see atp I understand people feel certain type of ways but it feels like ever since D has started people complain a lot more than they used to

@LittIeClank

9 ай бұрын

It has almost been nonstop since D started. Only time I saw it take a break was during set 4/5 meta but as soon as set 6 released its been nonstop again.

I think some people get so caught up in playing the next big deck that they forget try other things or just play what they feel more confident with and have fun. Almost like a hardcore yugioh mentality. I think vanguard just needs a few more things to balance the scales .

Well I’m glad you explained the RPS matchups so it’s good that there’s some balance. But yeah, Having to defend 5 or 8(??) attacks with very limited shield is very unfun. RPS + solitaire is not good design. Just needs to be more counterplay so the deck you pick doesn’t immediately decide who wins (or an OT).

I feel like the problem with the format is that there's no defensive option I understand that aggro decks are normal and a thing in every card game, it just sucks that the format is heavily trigger reliant since there's no defensive card, triggers is the best defense, and if you don't pull a trigger or null when opponent trigger sack, you're basically screwed. This is one of the biggest reason why most people are starting to venture to V and P even though those format got less support, V got no OT so skill expression is there, while Premium got a big card pool and defensive option that the best player that can analyse the game and matchup has better chance to win.

Thank you for the video. In my opinion some people doesn’t like the variety and need to watch the final episode of the anime again. 😅

I'm more worried about my luck screw me over in all directions than get aggro tbh 🤣🤣🤣 But in all honesty, I have been enjoying testing out newer stuff as it releases since DBT12 (despite all the salt) and I think there are other issues that the format has to worry about like poor reprint circulation and the need of more useful defensive options.

I disagree with People saying they die on turn 4 or 5 so they aren't able to make decisions that are rewarding. I believe agency, to quote the term that you used in another of your videos, actually starts from your mulligan as a decision that affects and rewards you during the game. if you are a turn 4 deck like drajeweled keeping maybe even 1 trigger in hand to block out a strong early game attack can affect how much you can just absorb hits later in the game. or trying to mulligan hard for pieces either to rush at g1 or 2 can affect how the game will flow as well. Overall I think having games on average last into turn 4 and 5 still gives players agency in the game and can be rewarded when compared to other games like yugioh where yeah the game might be long in time but it's pretty much decided on turn one, but also I prefer it faster then games like magic or shadowverse that have a mana pool to build up so games are slower in comparison. Overall in terms of speed in TCGs I prefer where vanguard is now in a turn 4-5 or 6 where the game ends.

Once tcg players realize to not overreact about every new release and play the game for 2 seconds, we can finally progress as a society

From my experience, I play Bavsargra and my big brother plays Lianorn sometimes games end quickly or goes on for a long time, if you and your opponent play your cards right or get lucky with triggers tendency is that games will last longer, no matter whether or not I face Aggro decks.

Unfortunately like any community especially online we all like to hivemind it instead of actually thinking for oneself

As far as I liked to play control in card games over more than 13 years, worst metas are always when the best deck is control. Why? Because control just say "no" even tough we are here to PLAY. And there's often more important in decisions/choices when games go fast, because in long games you have more time to correct your weakness. In faster games one mistake can be fatal. You must know your match up in D to know when you can afford to take early damage to get more turn 3 CB, when you must try to early guard at all cost and those funky match ups where you want to take the early damage but early crit may ruin your game... but you must still take the risk. In longer games from OG VG such choices were not that important early, but game was cool too at that time ❤

I think it’s crazy that there’s so many fun card designs in set 13 and everyone thinks it’s a horrible game state. Vanguard is still vanguard, so it’s still one of the best games to play. I’d love more defensive creep but at least the card design is cool.

I mean just look at gear chronicle for example. Only a select few decks really have a massive amount of attacks. It started with the imaginary gifts and how some seemed to only speed up decks

Honestly, I like this Nuance. I know that diversity doesn’t necessarily mean healthy game, but it means healthy meta and that’s what I enjoy!

Thats why its best not to make any assumptions until you have actually tested the decks first.

Wasn't the whole "games end by turn 4/5" thing also a problems' for V back when Luard and later Gurguit came out? Not the best examples as those two deck were actually problematic, but eventually people did adapt to that meta. The same will likely happen for this one as shown by the helpful charts in the video.

@jacobjensen7704

9 ай бұрын

Not a great example because people didn’t really adapt to that meta, the banlist had to help.

@thunderberzerker

9 ай бұрын

@@jacobjensen7704 true, admitted "survived" would've been the better word to use there

@cephalosjr.1835

9 ай бұрын

IIRC Gurguit’s problem was that it made games end turn 4, every game. So the player who went second, if they were facing Gurguit, didn’t even get a turn 4.

I'd rather have the game end early rather than having to watch a combo player do his thing or effin hand traps everywhere and take as long as I had to finish medicine school. *cough* *cough* yugioh *cough* I love yugioh btw but for the love of christ I want to play aswell. That's why this current vanguard meta doesn't bother me tho I'm playing casual but that's just me. I still love the game.

Except D is diceroll heavy and trigger relliant. We got 0 defensive options vs aggro decks and thats core issue. No shield value to defend against big numbers and if you get crit early, you are fighting uphill battle because that really hurts in overdress. Game rewards luck instead of skill. Set 14 there should focus purerly on defensive options and some kind of G guards or V heal guardians or else we are facing next reboot within 2 sets. You either guard early crit and loose comboparts or you loose. Meanwhile you got jet drawing shit ton of cards, big numbers on front for no reason because crest exists. If I manage to pull early 2 crits in orfist masques, the game is pretty much over if I went 2nd because I kill them on my turn 3.

pls G guardian in standard [G4] [G5 discard a card]

10:21 what do you mean that I’m not correct😡

And then there is me playing non-meta😢

I think that the aggro "excuses" is just a superficial way to address the real problem. Pacing isn't a problem, like said in the video aggro is a playstyle and a welcome one also but if an aggro deck only needs a crit on G2 to win because the game doesn't do anything to let you recover that's the problem. Standard is an amazing format as fun experience but in a competitive way I never felt so little rewarded for my plays, it feels bad dominating the game, making the right plays, having your opponent with few cards in hand and they suddenly check only triggers (maybe over) and doesn't matter if you have 20 cards in hand, you can't just guard sometimes with this low value shields. I feel that the fast pacing is making this problems more percebtible but it's not at all the real issue, it's just that you consume your early good shields faster and then you only need one blank check and you can't guard. With more defensive options implemented and something like heal guardians the format will shine a lot more even as competitive.

Yes there is more to Set 13 than just aggro. It's called my wallet dying. The promos for Bastion and Lianorn just had to be in the same set.

I'll still be here. But I decided to leave again. We'll see how long I can stay away. Gonna jump into Weiss, wish me luck

Vanguard community is so weird to me. Ppl want the aggro turn card sideways and win cuz ur not allowed not play cuz x deck is allowed to control and aggro ur face off cuz top tier decks in vanguard lowkey tend to do that especially back then. But then if its too slow cuz of defensive options ppl say its not fast enough. It can be a matter of ppl just dont want to adapt and wanna play how they wanna play and thats typically how most ppl are. Point is, cant make everyone happy and ur bound to have a good amount of ppl who will be thw opposite of the popular opinion and if u dont want to deal with it then cool come back when u want to. Ima sit here with Eva Gramgrace and Felty for the journey until it hits the point of like end of g. Where simply existing was not allowed and x decks was so stupid u physically arent allowed to adapt or counterplay it.

@730Flare

9 ай бұрын

Vanguard community has no clue on what they want: Both with the game and the anime.

First! Hi

And thats why Premium is the best format. It has a good balance of defense and agression. Going 2nd never sucks in premium because of the defensive options.

skill issue probably.

I feel like vanguard is always full of casual players complaining about the competitive side just because they can see OCG results