About the terminology, rather referring to Hīnayāna schools, I would be happy to call them Orthodox schools, Theravāda, Sarvāstivāda, etc. You sometimes see scholars refer to these as schools as Mainstream Buddhism, but that strikes me as an even more confusing and opaque term than Orthodox would be.

I played this video twice and I even took notes. Just started as a formal zen practicioner a couple of years ago and I dived into some mahayana scriptures. I found your critical approach very stimulating. It's obvious that from a formal or scholastic point of view mahayana is an "heresy". But taking an esoteric (understood as the opposite of exoteric) point of view it makes more sense that mahayana is somehow a "left hand path". I even wonder what mahayana owes to the tantric tradition in its origins up to a certain point. So, what I'm trying to say is that the contradiction could be ultimately in appearance and both paths (arhat/bodhisattva) share the same core. In this matter I'm very influenced by Schuon's and Evola's views, though I take them both with a grain of salt. Thanks for your work, you are an important support for my practice. Greetings.

To pass an exam: Theravada: "study & pass" Mahayana: "help & wait for everybody to pass first because you are compassionate. Everybody wait for everybody. Nobody passes 😅"

@naturecure280

7 ай бұрын

Very good simile. Im gonna start using that to my fellow maha and vajra friends 😂

@AverageBuddhist88

2 ай бұрын

Actually, bodhisattvas are enlightened. So, actually it’s “study, pass the exam, stay around to help those who are struggling”

@MK-gn1nz

2 ай бұрын

@@AverageBuddhist88 Bodhisattvas are enlightened but are not yet Buddhas. So they haven't pass the test. To pass the test means to escape the rebirth. To escape the rebirth means not hanging around to help others. The Buddha himself helped others by teaching the dharma how to become a Buddha but he did so without hanging around. His teachings are still helpful even today even though he is no longer around for 2500 yrs. He taught his disciples to become Buddhas, not Bodhisattvas.

@AverageBuddhist88

2 ай бұрын

@@MK-gn1nz In Tibetan Buddhism we class bodhisattvas like Manjusri and Avalokitesvara as buddhas because they are fully enlightened. They are not in samsara, they do not collect karma. But they still exist, not in a physical form, but in a spiritual form. The idea of the Buddha dying is, in my opinion, ridiculous. He literally said that enlightenment means transcending birth and death, and he called it the deathless state. So how did he die? Dying is (a long with birth, sickness and old age) of samsara, which the Buddha overcame. So he did not die.

@MK-gn1nz

2 ай бұрын

@@AverageBuddhist88 Not sure where you get death from. Buddha is free from rebirth which means he is free from birth & death be in all realms & all forms. Buddha taught people to free themselves from rebirth through your own effort & importantly without any delay. Delaying attainment of Buddhahood is not according to his teachings.

Native Americans saw a rabbit in the moon. I was taught that in 3rd grade. Didn't see the man (actually a face) in the moon until high school.

What do you think of the Lotus Sūtra David?

For the next compare-and-contrast episode you guys do, would Buddhism and Daoism be possible? Not sure how well the three of you know Daoism, I know Pañño has written about it a couple times on his blog.

@pannobhasa

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I'm not sure how that would go, as I don't know how much the Ajahn and Brian know about it. But just about everyone has read the Tao Te Ching.

@MrResearcher122

6 ай бұрын

@@pannobhasa Or heard it online, in an audio (like me).

This is timely was thinking about this subject the hell worlds are outlandish to say the least 😃😃😃in Mahayana

@AverageBuddhist88

2 ай бұрын

Isn’t Theravada hell the same?

The tripod of sages

Have you done discussion on buddhas thoughts on rebirth? Did he extensively talk about birth and rebirth in suttas attested to him? Would like to know what his thoughts were

@Dhammadhatu

Жыл бұрын

the buddha never taught about 'rebirth'. 'Rebirth' is fake translation of various Pali words which are often not even linguistically related to each other. If Pannabhaso actually believed in rebirth he would keep his ignorant wrong view mouth shut rather than dig a deeper hole into hell.

Could anybody please tell me, which Sutra it is where the Buddha mentions the technic of replacing one thougt

@pannobhasa

Жыл бұрын

It may be the one you are referring to is MN 20, or the Vitakkasanthana Sutta, "the discourse on the removal of distracting thoughts"

Pureland Buddhism no different than Jesus saves me. The Doobie Brothers could have done amitaba Buddha is just all right with me. 🤪

well, I suppose the best way to turn the following into a question is to ask: "So, Pañño, what do you think of the following? " - The issue with the mentioned Shambala "we-are-beyond-causation" thing stems from a (rather mysterious) teaching that appears in Nyingma/ Dzogchen ( perhaps in Mahamudra transmission as well) that states : "From the primordial, there is no sequence between cause and effect". This sure makes sense as an armouring against First Cause (and thence potentially creationist) doctrines. What I find surprising is the sophistication of the statement; it was certainly not meant as a viaticum for rustic cave-dwelling devotional yogis; it seems to require a novel mixture of conceptual grasp and mystical vision ...

@backwardthoughts1022

8 ай бұрын

it just requires a subtler version of vipassana. all dzogchen / mahayana practitioners easily reach abhidharmists eg. theravada vipassana, quickly followed by sautrantika path of seeing which is vastly superior to the abhidharmists providing new data thus allowing a deeper view into the nature of a buddha. they then advance into the mahayana vipashyanas which make theravadas look like kindergarten, and which even is radical relative to the sautrantikas. theravadins do not comprehend or ascertain the nature of mental labelling. sautrantika are the first to, and only in a coarse form. once you get to mahayana emptiness the superior vipashyana realizes much subtler depths to mental labelling, and the chase toward ones buddhahood becomes hot and significant, and of course allows for a far subtler comprehension of the nature of buddhas. if you remain on the level of abhidharmists with their illusions of physical and mental ultimates, unable even to know how to establish negations which are unchanging and do not function, which is only first becomes possibly the to ascertain with sautrantika level of vipashyana, then of courses in your comprehension of a buddhas body mind will be subpar, since ones comprehension of notself emptiness and mental labelling will is severely limited. what's good about theravada/abhidharmists however is that if they develop true samadhi and become truly fluent in their tenets, they become utterly prone and ready to be triggered into the subtler vipashyana and dash through them similar to how pratyekabuddha arhats through sheer force of countless merit arrive inba particular life with particular conditions and suddenly pass from their perpetual path of renunciation to full arhat in a single sitting

this is no admonition to anyone, but these comments are a bit .. angry? let’s remember, do not die upon your positions. whether you believe in the Maha Purisa (Great Person) of Theravada Buddhism or the Eternal Buddha of Mahayana, we can all agree this clinging to views is not helpful when we stop listening to each other entirely. I am a Theravadin laymen but I realize there is great wisdom within Mahayana Buddhism as well.

Did Ajahn say he smokes tobacco? Curious which form/kind? pipe, cigar, etc? Which brand do you use Ajahn? Just curious, thanks!

@pannobhasa

Жыл бұрын

Yeah in a recent video he admitted to smoking tobacco and eating cheese in the afternoon. Standard for monks ordained in Thai traditions I guess.

@Dhammadhatu

Жыл бұрын

@@pannobhasa bullshit

@naturecure280

7 ай бұрын

Can you pls name sutta that Buddha told monks not to smoke tobacco? Im curiuos too.

... A good gift must not harm the giver or recipient. AN 5.148 The Jatakas contradict that and many other suttas. They are altered pre-Buddhist Indian folklore.

@pannobhasa

Жыл бұрын

Apparently lots of animals could talk back when Brahmadatta was king in Varanasi.

@jeremyc4893

Жыл бұрын

@@pannobhasa Another good point 👍

I’d think that there are more than 31 realms of existence. In fact, the realms should be uncountable if your mind determines your own reality. 😅

@pannobhasa

Жыл бұрын

Going with tradition, they fit into 31 categories

@supermegapowerg1188

Жыл бұрын

As much you want to think noting is impossible there is possibly to everything there an order to the world like gravity will pull you down not back no matter how you imagine that will not happen you can imagine you will be most richest man in the world next day and have super powers you can imagine but that's is not the reality.

I got as far as the misunderstanding of the Bodhisattva vow.

The scenario in the Lotus Sutra is even worse than Ajahn describes, since the Buddha that Sakyamuni summons to question him is not just a contemporary Buddha of another world-system, but a Buddha of the past who already passed into Parinirvana(!), who Sakyamuni calls on to confirm that "all Buddhas of the Three Times teach the Lotus Sutra just like this". I was horrified when I came to this part. There is also a section of the Shurangama Samadhi Sutra wherein the author has Manjusri claim that he has manifested himself as countless Buddhas who all gave the appearance of passing into Parinirvana, one after another. There is an absolute paranoia around Parinirvana and a palpable desire for the Buddha to remain as an eternal presence in a lot of Mahayana literature of a more devotional bent.

@pannobhasa

Жыл бұрын

I think Mahayana may have been the "Progressive movement" of ancient India. At least within Buddhism.

@backwardthoughts1022

9 ай бұрын

its just a subtler comprehension of the buddha based on subtler vipashyana for example in the old schools only the abhidharmists regarded the buddha as actually dying. even the sautrantika schools have sufficiently subtle vipashyana to understand the nature of the buddha to the extent that he only removed his form at the time of death from the desire realm, since the mind and body of a buddha never ends. for the schools lower than sautrantika such as theravadins who cannot even posit negations without their being functioning things due to their meager vipashyana, this affects their understanding of buddhas and their penetration of the 4 arya truths. if none of that is acceptable then a comparison of vipashyana and comprehension of emptiness and noself will illustrate which is superior. spoilers, theravada is for children sautrantika is the entrance into buddhadharma since it is the first vipashyana which establishes mentally imputation. the mahayana schools further reveal more severe forms of mental labelling which yes reveal existence and buddhas to be radically contextualised. deal with it. search tukdam taipei 2020.

@naturecure280

7 ай бұрын

​@@backwardthoughts1022 oh backward backward.. you again backwarded it 😂😂. You need more study and meditation. ❤

@backwardthoughts1022

7 ай бұрын

@@naturecure280 theres a big debate whether the abhidharma systems are even buddhadharma or not. for example you don't know how to posit negations without their being functioning things, because you are unable to comprehend sautrantika level of mental label labelling. whats severely problematic further in this is your positing of universals as positive functioning objects, because you cannot apprehend dharmakirti like all the higher schools including sautrantika do, and know the meaning of universals as mere static negations ie. don't function, yet can appear to awareness. abhidharmists unable to reach this level of vipassana therefore require the position that negations function and thus are knowable ie. existents. its a big problem, and its the entry into real buddhism. otherwise carry on with positing subtle impermanence as a positive functioning thing until you run into me.

This talk was a cold shower for me. I used to practice Tibetan Buddhism for a numerous years. Tibetan teachers, in their talks always had a lot of respect of Theravada. They never called Theravada Hinayana.

@pannobhasa

2 ай бұрын

Nowadays, especially in the west, there is much more concern about not offending anybody. Plus some Mahayana teachers in modern times acknowledge that Theravada teaches important, basic Buddhism.

@cleefy69

2 ай бұрын

@@pannobhasa Thank you.

YOU ARE GREAT KNOWLEDGABLE PEOPLE AND I AM A PLAIN TRAVADIAN LAY PERSON WHO WAS LISTING TO YOU, BUT I THINK, IT IS BETTER TO INVITE A GROUP OF Mahayana BUDDHISEM MONKS AND HAVE DISCUTION IN FRONT OF EACH OTHER. I THINK IN THAT SITUATION, WE, AS LAY PEOPLE UNDERSTAND BETTER, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO.

@naturecure280

7 ай бұрын

I think Mahayana monks will be afraid and say: We dont talk to hinayana monks. Because they are small vehicle*d, small people 😂😂

@ahdumbs1161

Ай бұрын

I know this is an old comment but I agree my brother in Buddha. I too, am a lay person of the Theravada and would find it very productive for a panel of monks from various schools to help elucidate the differences better. Although this was a great video, it would be helpful!

Вот что ИИ сделал с транскриптом из этого видоса: 1. Развитие новых писаний: Махаяна разработала обширный свод новых сутр несколько веков спустя после времен Будды, в то время как тхеравада в основном опирается на Палийский канон как на подлинные учения Будды. “Алмазная сутра”, “Лотосовая сутра” и "Сутра помоста Хуэйнэна", возможно, были полностью сфабрикованы спустя сотни лет после жизни будды. 2. Идеал бодхисаттвы: Махаяна пропагандирует идеал бодхисаттвы, откладывающего полное просветление ради помощи всем существам, тогда как тхеравада сосредоточена на индивидуальном освобождении посредством достижения состояния архата. 3. Взгляд на этику и сострадание: В махаяне сострадание может использоваться как "козырная карта" для оправдания нарушения моральных заповедей, что неприемлемо для строгого следования этическим правилам в тхераваде. 4. Интерпретация учений Будды: В тексте выражается скептицизм по поводу того, что такие учения, как обет бодхисаттвы откладывать просветление на неопределенный срок, действительно были преподаны историческим Буддой, предполагая, что они могли быть позднейшими интерполяциями или выдумками в махаяне. 5. Цели: Конечная цель в тхераваде описывается как достижение нирваны и состояния архата (достигшего неполной нирваны), тогда как в махаяне конечной целью является достижение полного просветления Будды ради освобождения всех существ. 6. Происхождение и мотивы: Распространение грамотности в Китае и Японии было одним из факторов, которые могли мотивировать появление новых учений махаяны, отличных от самых ранних буддийских текстов, сохраненных в традиции тхеравады. 7. Метафизические концепции: Некоторые школы махаяны постулируют концепции, подобные веданте, такие как "единый ум" или "дхармакая" как некая высшая реальность, пронизывающая всю вселенную. Тхеравада же избегает реификации абсолюта (реификация - это ошибка неуместной конкретности). 8. Логика и организация учений: Логика и систематизация учений в махаяне были более продвинутыми и совершенными, чем в ранних палийских текстах тхеравады, которые порой кажутся менее логичными с современной точки зрения. 9. Интерпретация просветления: В Махаянском буддизме существует идея о том, что после просветления ты видишь, что все остальные существа также просветлены, что противоречит тхеравадскому пониманию полного освобождения от сансары. 10. Отношение к архатам: Существует критика махаяны в адрес архатов и главных учеников Будды, таких как Шарипутра и Махамаудгальяяна, которых они рассматривали как низших по отношению к бодхисаттвам.

Mahayana is the inflated lover archetype

I agree with Brian's assessment that in effect, Mara created Mahayana. The Bodhisattva vow boils down to making a commitment never to leave samsara (or stop "samsaraing"). One accomplishes this by embracing a variety of heretical views that ensure that as long as one clings to them, he will never see clearly, and as a result never achieve awakening or liberation. All out of compassion! So the bodhisattva can congratulate himself that his endless delusion will lead "all beings" to enlightenment, all while ensuring neither he nor anyone he teaches will ever even have Right View. A truly vicious doctrine.

@backwardthoughts1022

Жыл бұрын

a clueless understanding of bodhisattva doctrine

@proto-pseudo-monk

9 ай бұрын

@@backwardthoughts1022 As you name says, you've got it backwards mate. You are so attached to wanting to help others, which you can't, and at the root, I think, aversion to actually renounce the world. Thus, you fail to see the bodhisattva path for what it is - endless delusion.

@backwardthoughts1022

9 ай бұрын

@@proto-pseudo-monk again youre just a clueless assertion. shakyamuni was not just an arhat, he was a bodhisattva who became a buddha. a minimal reading on mahayana scholarship shows the function of the path such as shakyamuni took is to reach full buddhahood for the sake of gaining the capacity to take others out samsara, as he did. without him there is no turning the wheel of dharma and no initiating the formation of countless beings into arhats. there is so much scholarship on the mahayana schools now that there is no excuse for such vapid stupidity any longer. also mahayana emptiness and noself is extremely more subtle than the abhidharna and sautrantika schools...its simply pitiful for the latter to speak to the former about attachment. for example theravadins don't even know how to posit negations that don't function, due to their inferior vipashyana being unable to realise even sautrantikas coarse level of mental imputation which establishes how negations can be unchanging nonfunctioning things that can still nevertheless be known by awareness.

@naturecure280

7 ай бұрын

​@@backwardthoughts1022You really really got it backwards again. Oops 😂 Mara wants you in samsara.

@backwardthoughts1022

7 ай бұрын

@@naturecure280 the mahayanists study theravada better than theravadins do. you need to advance into sautrantika if you want to stand a chance against ignorant liking and disliking. theres so much scholarship these days that only the dullest will remain complacent.

If a Bodhisattva is destined for enlightenment then would that make them an Aryia and if so then they can not post pone enlightenment as Aryia are destined to get enlightened with in seven lives. Buddha only called himself a bodhisattva and that was in reference to his last 3 lifetimes.

One comes from Buddha, one does not.quite simple.

Mahayana is true. The Nikayas say that the Buddha taught devas and nagas. The Mahayana sutras are these devas and nagas appearing in visions to Buddhist masters across India in due time and revealing the teachings that the Buddha gave to devas and nagas but not to humans. How do we know the devas and nagas aren’t lying? We analyse their records of what the Buddha allegedly taught them. They do not contradict the Agamas and Nikayas, only expand on certain points, e.g. perfection of wisdom and emptiness and taught by the Buddha in Samyukta Agama volume 1. Also, bodhisattvahood is not delaying enlightenment, it’s attaining enlightenment but then staying around in a spiritual form to use that enlightenment to help others.

@pannobhasa

2 ай бұрын

The only teaching to a naga that I recall from the Pali texts (Vinaya, not the Suttas) is when the Buddha required a naga to stop pretending to be a monk because nagas are technically animals and are incapable of enlightenment. So I doubt the Buddha would teach profound doctrines to beings unable to attain enlightenment. Plus some teachings of Mahayana, like Pure Land, are in some ways the exact opposite of the Dhamma found in the earliest texts.

@AverageBuddhist88

2 ай бұрын

@@pannobhasa The nagas have kings and these kings intentionally protected the Lord Buddha during the rainy season. Which animals have kings that understand Dharma and virtue? Nagas are technically animals but in practice they do seem to be of a higher level than the animals we can see. Also I don’t t even believe in Pure Land as in “say Amitabha’s name 10 times and get saved”, this is Japanese over literalistic reading of the Pure Land Sutras. The original Chinese form believed things like compassion, virtue, discipline and a lot of merits are required to go there. So they still believe the path of Dharma the Lord Buddha taught is necessary to follow to gain the virtue and merits and discipline and all that. But I am not even a Pure Landist, and I especially don’t believe salvation is possible from reciting Amitabhas name 10 times.

Complete misunderstanding of mahayana. The aim is to become a buddha, non abiding nirvana

@naturecure280

7 ай бұрын

Its like i will not go to elementary school. But i will become Doctor in the future. So because im becoming doctor i will start healing people today 😂

@carlallcott4067

7 ай бұрын

@@naturecure280 well not really. You need to become a buddha first to be of maximum benefit

@naturecure280

7 ай бұрын

@@carlallcott4067 anyway, why mahayana ppl watch theravada video and leave desperate comments like you? Your adhamma no interesting or wise enough? 😂

Small mind mapping big wisdom

@HuiChyr

9 ай бұрын

I got great realization from the Lotus Sutra and Heart Sutra. Two sutras these 3 just put down in this video. Hahaha ... I don't care. It works great for me. I even listen to Theravada Ajahns teaching on KZread too. Those videos work great for me. Makes me understand Lotus Sutra and Heart Sutra even more. Mahayana, Hinayana, Theravada and Zen , all pointing to the same thing. For these 3 Theravadas followers to take offence as being the "smaller" wheel is sad to see. 😆

You guys really need a Mahayana monk for this discussion otherwise it's extremely biased.

@pannobhasa

Жыл бұрын

The same argument would apply to Buddhism and Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism, Buddhism and atheism, etc. It may be that a Mahayana monk would be even more biased. Anyway, we are of necessity giving a Theravada Buddhist perspective.

@sureshshakya1168

Жыл бұрын

I think we just don't want to start any kind of conflict between us.. It can raise question that can compromise mahayana integrity of their dhamma..

@julie5978

Жыл бұрын

@@pannobhasa yes true of all those as well. People are inherently biased but when you have people from different perspectives debate you as a listener feel like you are getting both sides of the story so you can form a more objective opinion. Otherwise you guys are just strawmannig all these different positions.

@Dhammadhatu

Жыл бұрын

@@julie5978 echo chamber

I have greatly respected Ajahn Punnadhammo for his teachings, but to see him even holding a conversation with Brian Ruhe, is troubling. Perhaps Ajahn is unaware of Brian's Nazi sympathies, but Brian Ruhe needs to be excommunicated from any legitimate Buddhist community. Not sure about Pannobhasa, I hope he is not some Nazi but to see him hosting Brian his credibility is lost to me.

@pannobhasa

Жыл бұрын

How about Marxists? Do you think they should be excommunicated too? History has shown that Socialism is worse than Fascism, so all the indoctrinated lefties should be driven out of the Dharma halls. Also, if you think Brian should be "excommunicated from any legitimate Buddhist community," then I'd rather see you excommunicated. He's probably a better Buddhist, and a more knowledgeable one, than you are.

@scottr9159

Жыл бұрын

@@pannobhasa Thank you for your reply. You have told me all I need to know about you and your channel. May you know true happiness and may your mind be liberated from delusion.

@rohlay00

Жыл бұрын

I found Brian's input very insightful and relevant. He has the experience of actually practicing Mahayana, and faithfully, to then finding too many inconsistencies where logic and reason start to crumble, and you then rely solely on fear and faith. I share his position and he mentioned exactly the key points that a Thervada practitioner might have missed in this discussion. Scott, you aren't displaying ethics of a true buddhist (aka Theravada), as we praise good qualities and speak out against bad ones, but never do we reproach people, as in reality people don't exist. In this video he appears as a buddhist that used to practice Mahayana, but not a trace of Nazism...

@mooners544

9 ай бұрын

@@pannobhasa >How about Marxists? Do you think they should be excommunicated too? History has shown that Socialism is worse than Fascism, so all the indoctrinated lefties should be driven out of the Dharma halls. Bit of a strawman there regarding Marxists, also National Socialism and Fascism are categorically different ideologies even if they are within the spectrum of the Third Position, which, just like people on the left wing, you seem to conflate with each other, despite those two groups not identifying with each other historically. And anybody who has heard of Operation Barbarossa knows that if that had been fully implemented it'd be a teensy bit worse than any historical communist government, but not by a lot. >Also, if you think Brian should be "excommunicated from any legitimate Buddhist community," then I'd rather see you excommunicated. He's probably a better Buddhist, and a more knowledgeable one, than you are. Anybody who professes a collectivist ideology that advocates for using the state as a means for disenfranchising people based on their class or ethnic origin should be excommunicated. Yes, even people you happen to be friends with, David.

thai propaganda: the video

@pannobhasa

8 ай бұрын

Except none of us is Thai and I've never followed Thai Buddhism.

pannobhaso is very clueless.