My great grandpa passed in this, he was in the first coach and was killed instantly by the impact, he was supposedly a good guy that didn’t smoke or do any of that, thank you ottomatic for covering this, it means a lot

@Leatherface123.

2 ай бұрын

Sorry to hear that

@gregorykayne6054

2 ай бұрын

Sorry for your loss.

@texaskidzuk

2 ай бұрын

I'm sorry for your loss but smoking doesn't make you a good or bad guy.

@HyperActive7

2 ай бұрын

At least he got some justice in the end.

@RichardBough-yk2ei

2 ай бұрын

Sorry for your loss

Now this was a great story! Finally shining some light on this wreck

@celsalazar1600

Ай бұрын

Yo amethyst

@celsalazar1600

Ай бұрын

Why do you have smoke deflectors before?

An excellent presentation. Thank you.

This is one of those stories where you see it coming given the previous record of the engineer and condolences to all those lost.

20:14 Im noticing a similarity between this incident, and the wreck of the Broker in the fact that neither the K4s 2445, or the 835 apparently, seemed to have speedometers. Tho i suppose thats to be expected given how things were in this era of railroading.

@JohnDavies-cn3ro

2 ай бұрын

Very few steam locomotives ever had speedometers fitted to them - in France, and some other places, they had speed recorders, which may have given a visual indication to the driver, but I'm not sure exactly what it could have been. They were analyzed after the run, and defaulting drivers called to the manager's carpet.

@darkchaotix1productions326

2 ай бұрын

​@@JohnDavies-cn3ro well, like I said, things like these were common for that era of railroading, atleast incidents like these have inspired the changes we now see on modern day Steam, Diesel, and Electric operations.

@Dannyedelman4231

Ай бұрын

Sp didn't have speedometers in their C classes of 2-8-0 locomotives

@darkchaotix1productions326

17 күн бұрын

​@@Dannyedelman4231Guess that just goes and proves the point further then about that era of railroading

@Dannyedelman4231

17 күн бұрын

​@darkchaotix1productions326 very true and the C class 2-8-0 locomotives barely got over 50 mph

At a guess, the extremely fast running coming out of Barstow could have altered the engineers sense of speed. As a [now retired] long haul truck driver I'm aware of this phenomenon as one of my regular runs had a several hour long stretch of Interstate running on flat and level ground followed by a section crossing a set of high hills that was very twisty. The long time on the Interstate distorts the sense of speed and it required concentration and a checking of the trucks speedometer to negotiate the curvy section at safe speeds. In the 1940s, psychological factors such as this would not have been generally known or understood.

@terrenceodgers5866

Ай бұрын

In a court of law, judging speed is unreliable evidence.

@Public-Citizen

Ай бұрын

@@terrenceodgers5866 What's your point? This event happened decades ago, most likely before you were born. Standards of evidence have changed, along with the levels of technology acceptable in daily use.

@terrenceodgers5866

Ай бұрын

@@Public-Citizen I agree with your summation. My comment refers to the obvious fact for that time, that even the cheapest motor vehicle had a speedometer. So, why not in some very expensive locomotives? And no one can accurately judge how fast anything is traveling, regardless of how experienced at driving,, be it on road or rail, they may be. And your comment is very pertinent to that observation. We should always remember, that even today, the gathering of forensic evidence, after the fact, is not always reliable. People still go to jail, who are later proved innocent of the charge/s originally leveled at them. I may not have been in this world at that time, but what I have come realize in the time I have been here, is that Humanity, generally speaking, is very fallible, and predictable, especially when accumulating and presenting 'evidence'.

@Public-Citizen

Ай бұрын

@@terrenceodgers5866 Your point on speedometers and automobiles is well taken. However, railroadmen had since almost the beginning been accustomed to judging speed by their watch, the most accurate timepieces available for the era they were being used in, and meticulously maintained to assure that accuracy, and comparing the time against known mile and increment markers lineside. The locomotive involved in this accident was either built during the waning days of the Great Depression or during WWII, in either case such accessories as a speedometer were considered non-essential, something this accident quite obviously demonstrates is a dubious if not outright fallacious belief. I suspect the engineer on this run was more concerned with the timetable than in clocking his speed against the lineside markers, a contributing factor in the accident.

@terrenceodgers5866

Ай бұрын

@@Public-Citizen - Indeed! Complacency within a structured mindset environment, such as in the old system of 'railroading' relying on time keeping, rather than proven and superior methods of speed accuracy, probably had just as much to do with the Transcon running off the rails, than we mere mortals will ever know.

My auntie died in the second car and was killed by the impact she didnt have time to react

Anyone who operates these locomotives for a living knows the difference between 70 MPH and 40 MPH. The driver was reckless.

@Dannyedelman4231

11 күн бұрын

Union Pacific didn't even install a speedometer on the locomotive, so part engineer part company recklessness

No locomotive speed recording device may have been a contributing factor but it's easier to blame the engineer - however - in this case he does seem to have a high level of culpability.

Thanks, nice presentation. I know this area well.

You do such a a great job. Thanks

Great video. I didn’t know UP had 3 stacks on any of their fefs

@MachRacer4

2 ай бұрын

A couple FEF’s were fitted with triple stacks. I think it had been done as an experiment, like the UP fitting Big Boy 4019 with smoke wings or converting Big Boy 4005 to oil burning.

Excellent job!

Last I knew (1990s) this beautiful station was still in existence.

I';ll have to take a look for that spot the next time I come down the hill at dawn in train number 3. While I don't have the detail-oriented brain of a real train enthusiast, I was taken in by your well-researched account and ever so familiar names. Ironically, Amtrak's chronic delays due to freight trains holding it up mean there's no danger of any engineer trying to beat the clock.

A tragic accident which could have avoided, sounds like excessive speed was a contributing factor ( i am only going by watching this story ).

Great video thank you

Note: This was Train 223, not Train 3. Also, its full name was the Transcontinental Limited, not the Transcon; this might make it easier for anyone looking for more information.

@tonyanderson-ln9gl

Ай бұрын

Thank you! I hate it when these superficial internet 'experts' spout wildly inaccurate and misleading information. I knew darn well there was no train named the Transcon. Very poor research if he can't get the name right.

Ooooh! This is gonna be good 👍

Excellent story and delivery! Overspeed and pride caused this accident.

You never know what's going to happen. This is a well narrated story.

Is the river bridge at 27:35 the Route 66 /National Trails bridge over the Mojave River (although now rebuilt)?

UP FEF 835 RIP

How hard would it be to put a speedometer on the engine?

As somebody who works on vehicles for a living. How can you tell how fast you're going? If you don't have an instrument to tell you, it's very difficult for a person to both run a machine and do other types of things in this nature. So I personally believe while he may have been speeding. Some blame should go to Union Pacific for not having a speedometer in 835.

@robertheinkel6225

2 ай бұрын

Normally, speed was determined by timing themselves from one mile marker to the next.

@bearowen5480

2 ай бұрын

The fact that the locomotive was not equipped with a speedometer does not totally absolve the engineer. Cab crews were always acutely aware of keeping timetable schedule. They used their very accurate watches to accurately calculate their speed and timetable compliance by observing the time elapsed between milepost markers. A simple example would be one mile traveled in one minute means the speed is 60 miles per hour. It's clear from the report that engineer Parker knew when he left Barstow that his train was nine minutes behind schedule. The rear brakeman's logged entries documented that on the tangent (straight) trackage south of Barstow where the track speed limit was 90 MPH, Parker was actually running at 120. It was common in those days for crews to run flat out on tangent track in order to make up time, but engineers also knew that speed limits on curves had to be obeyed for the obvious reasons of basic physics. Parker had slowed down to 60 to comply with the limit for the stretch prior to the curve's restriction of 40. Why he failed to continue his speed reduction to the limit of 40 for the curve that caused the derailment may never be known.

There never found the whiskey flask the engineer was drinking from

@roboftherock

Ай бұрын

That is a libelous statement.

@amdg2023

Ай бұрын

@@roboftherock first off it's not a statement, it's a written comment so you got that wrong, second the comment doesn't report who or which engineer it's referring to? Stick to greeter at Walmart, law isn't your gig.

@roboftherock

Ай бұрын

@@amdg2023 Can't do that, they don't have any outlets here.

@roboftherock

Ай бұрын

@@amdg2023 A statement is "A definite or clear expression of something in speech OR WRITING". My statement stands. As for your final suggestion, it has implications of denigration. I regret I cannot take it up as that entity has no outlets here.

The engineer got the blame, but the system that incentivized rule bending was culpable. These engineers were like fighter pilots of their day. Honor and pride drove many of them to great success and the RR executives took advantage of this to boost productivity in getting the most out of already high performing individuals. The power the railroads had in those days is hard to imagine today. The district supervisors had powers akin to a ship's captain at sea over a broad domain for many crews and huge numbers of rolling stock. When an order came down all the crews hopped to it with forceful determination in military-like subordination.

On British Locomotives speedometers were uncommon until the 1950’s ( Riddles BR Standard Class Locomotives)

Watch on 1.25x speed... you're welcome.

1.25 playback sounds best

i didnt know that the up fef 3 had a wreck

It’s AY-say.

She is a beautiful train

Also in Spain and Japan train crashes do to drivets trying to make up loss time

Wasthis incident real?

@CotwGamer333

2 ай бұрын

Sadly, yes alco

@ALCO-C855-fan

2 ай бұрын

@@CotwGamer333 😭

@calebharris1080

2 ай бұрын

What?

@ALCO-C855-fan

2 ай бұрын

@@calebharris1080 Sad about it.

@JohnDavies-cn3ro

2 ай бұрын

I know the landscape looks like a Hollywood set, but that was pretty real indeed.

I like this reading, and the upfront sourcing. Maybe tone down the drama music a little bit next time - something a little more ambient, or perhaps sombre, would better fit the nature of this video. The action/suspense music doesn't fit unless you choreograph your reading to be timed to match the intensity of that music. There were only a couple of flubbed lines, and your tone and intonation were decently good, and I highly appreciate that you didn't "ham up" your reading of the source media - it felt respectful and relatively professional. It's hard to get narration spot on, having tried before, and you deserve to feel accomplished with this result.

Would have been nice to have more pictures....it is You Tube you know..not a pod cast!! Sad!

Insurance Job

@normcochran9414

2 ай бұрын

As real as the nose on your face!

Cause? Engineer's fault for going too fast? Fireman did notell engineer?

@sturmovik1274

2 ай бұрын

The Interstate Commerce Commission, which was the relevant regulator at that time, simply stated the cause as "excessive speed on a curve". The fireman was too badly injured to be interviewed for the investigation and other crew, who would have been in other places in the train and attending to other duties, couldn't give any estimate of the speed (note: they may have been lying to protect themselves). They did, however, remember a violent brake application several seconds before the derailment, as if the engineer had realized the danger at the last instant. The engineer thought they were only doing about 50, but it was calculated that the train could not have overturned on that curve at less than 76 mph.

jackknifed

You just love the sound of your own voice.... putting me to sleep with your drone 😖

No locomotive speed recording device may have been a contributing factor but it's easier to blame the engineer - however - in this case he does seem to have a high level of culpability.