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@Priapos93

Ай бұрын

Does the shirt have your durability?

@ArmchairViolence

Ай бұрын

@@Priapos93 You could argue it has more, as the shirt can be hit with a baseball bat and remain undamaged! Also, the shirt does not cry when someone hurts its feelings, and it is therefore stronger than us all

@tyrusmfrechs7025

Ай бұрын

@@ArmchairViolence you disgust me. Making money off of bad advice. I’d love to see you get humbled. You don’t compete do you?

AV: "Can't sell the concept of shirtlessness" Onlyfans: "hold my beer"

@cantripleplays

Ай бұрын

Still not the concept

@chadowstar2992

Ай бұрын

lmao

More people need to hear this.

@mannam9468

Ай бұрын

Man has given reason why i have started hating my gym rn

@BiggityBoggity8095

Ай бұрын

Hey coach, I always hit pads at full power. Have I been a dick head this whole time?

@watenallace663

Ай бұрын

@@BiggityBoggity8095it probably depends on your partner, I used to hit pads super hard but then I got with a newbie and he kept saying "you don't have to hit so hard" I felt bad.

@athenry

Ай бұрын

Tony Jeffires has a video called The Pros and Cons of MITT WORK in Boxing | Pad Work Tutorial. It explains padwork correctly, and how many use it incorrectly. Meanwhile, nice to see RamseyDewey here, one of my favorite youtubers!

@yinyang9508

Ай бұрын

Oh hey coach

Padwork, in hindsight, is like a weird combo of Partner Drilling and Bagwork, where you turn your partner into this sentient bag.

@athenry

Ай бұрын

YES! A bag that moves around forcing you to work on your footwork, a bag that can throw some shots at you forcing you to work on defense, etc. Assuming the pad holder actually knows what they are doing. I think in a lot of mma gyms the padholder is most likely just as untrained as whoever is hitting the pads, instead of having the coach or someone trained in holding pads who can control what is going on.

@ajax3310

Ай бұрын

Some weekends *I* feel like a sentient bag

@tyrusmfrechs7025

Ай бұрын

@@athenry thank you! Exactly! Getting used to strikes coming at you fast and hard, movement, intuition with different pad holders/strikers. The only reason pad holding doesn’t work is cause armchair over here doesn’t reach his people to hold properly. I can’t stand seeing this many people falling for this idiots bs

@ricosuavemente571

Ай бұрын

@@athenry pad holding is a skill in itself and most people aren’t good enough to get the most out of it. Most just hold the pads up and let the striker execute the combination. They don’t actively challenge the striker but taking angles and making them adjust properly, moving in and forcing the striker to back up while striking to keep space to not smother themselves or moving away and making the striker learn to move their feet forward while striking to pressure a retreating opponent. Or even just throwing out their own strikes to keep the striker defensively responsible. All this stuff should be incorporated into pad work to keep it realistic as possible but often it isn’t so it creates a false sense of security to some extent

@hb9145

4 күн бұрын

@@athenry Yes! I found pad holding more challenging than actually hitting them correctly.

The problem with pads is there’s way more bad pad holders than good. There is the guy who ends up holding the pads a meter apart, the guy who is scared to hold the pads who pulls the pads away as if he's catching a baseball, and the tired pad holder who progressively starts dropping their hands more and more simulating you fighting a midget.

@user-vv7lp3oy4e

Ай бұрын

As the wise Master Ken revealed: a person who has an easier time striking at the groin has a immediate advantage.

@0n344

Ай бұрын

I tried out a boxing class and had a pad holder who doesn't hold the pads up at all and expects you to just throw the punches at the air while he smacks the punches as hard as if he's the one throwing punches. Absolutely awful

@WhenYouveGoneGuru

Ай бұрын

You forgot the human tree of a pad holder who holds them at the height of a normal person's head when you're trying to do a body-kick.

@tyrusmfrechs7025

Ай бұрын

Finally someone who gets it

@chaossedated

6 күн бұрын

That’s the biggest problem. Holding pads is a skill itself.

I immediately checked if that was an April fool's video. Guess I'll listen to it seriously!

@xtremecutz

Ай бұрын

Ofcourse it was 😂

@shinobix4925

Ай бұрын

Bro released it just the day after April fools so nobody would think he's joking 😂

@ArmchairViolence

Ай бұрын

​@@shinobix4925I normally release on Tuesdays, and did in fact double-check to make sure it wasn't April 1st before releasing 😂

@tyrusmfrechs7025

Ай бұрын

@@ArmchairViolenceso you’re serious? Wow

lmfao @6:51 this made me actually laugh out loud. There is NO FUCKING WAY you're not gonna be a million+ subscriber channel dude. I absolutely adore your manner of sarcasm and comedy, it speaks to me in a spiritual level 😂

@conejero00

Ай бұрын

It was amazing, I'm still laughing Poor lady

@MisterGames

Ай бұрын

So funny!

@OneNvrKnoz

Ай бұрын

That’s his poor girlfriend. I can’t believe she still puts up with him 😂

@ajax3310

Ай бұрын

Who could be mad at that shit-eating grin 😂

0:33 Women's MMA has shirts. There's your market right there.

@aidenlamm

Ай бұрын

:(

@notdanroth

Ай бұрын

This is vital information

@johnlloyddy7016

Ай бұрын

No they don't. Dude, stop lying. Women's MMA are shirtless. Else how you gonna sell tickets? Ever seen their weigh ins?

@ArmchairViolence

Ай бұрын

See, everyone is getting confused and thinking that selling images of shirtless people counts, but we're talking about you as a fan wearing the LACK of a jersey. I would have to find a way to sell you your own shirtlessness. I'd have to sell the CONCEPT of shirtlessness! That's way harder.

@aidenlamm

Ай бұрын

@@ArmchairViolence we weren't confused, just sad that women's mma isn't shirtless

Glad you got a sponsorship

Wooo! Our boy got sponsored AND we get a new video; the armchair is moving up in the world

None of these criticisms are correct because you're criticizing people who do pad holding wrong, not pad holding in concept. 1)You're not supposed to think of the holder as the opponent, you're supposed to think of the pad as the guy's face. 2) Get a pad holder who cares more about a good technical workout than making a sweet sound. 3) Pad holding benefits the holder's defensive timing, footwork, parrying, and cardio. Conversely, partner drilling is great...but not being able to throw hard can lead to bad habits, over confidence, and lack of body awareness. Do both (plus heavy, double end bag, slap sparring, chi sao, pummeling, position sparring, randori, etc) in proper measure for the right reasons.

@jstar6543

Ай бұрын

The guy is clearly saying this for content! HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT! CAREFUL WHO YOU TAKE ADVICE FROM!!

@leonardo9259

Ай бұрын

Keyboards warriors angry at video lmao

@AbdulGhani-vm6oq

Ай бұрын

Chi sao? ...lol bull shido alert 🤡

@TheMountainBeyondTheWoods

Ай бұрын

@@jstar6543 You guys criticizing him are the ones who don't know what you're talking about. All his points are correct and he's not even the first person talking about this, many others have done it before. There's a reason why old school boxers never used pads, which only became so prevalent relatively recently.

@travis1687

Ай бұрын

@@TheMountainBeyondTheWoods and the skill level between new age and old school boxers can't even be compared. New age boxers are miles ahead of old school boxers. Pad work can be beneficial but it has to be done correctly.

I do agree with some points made. Gabriel Varga said (in a video about pad work) that pad work is one thing he would never give up in his training and I agree with him. Of course that’s with an experienced pad holder

@np494609

Ай бұрын

Yeah and Gabriel’s got a lot of belts. I don’t see any belts hanging on this guys wall, let’s be real. These theories sound good, but are not tested. I agree that partner Dutch drills are good, but they don’t develop that brutal power you can get from pad work. In Thai boxing, we’re looking to change the fight with 1-2 damage inflicting strikes. I think good pad rounds with a partner hitting back and moving like a fight is as good a training you can get, and you can hit with 100% force. You can’t do that with Dutch drills and shouldn’t in sparring.

@tyrusmfrechs7025

Ай бұрын

@@np494609 does armchair have any fights at all? I have never seen him training hard

Glad you’re still making videos!!

My ability to understand the muay thai gym footage from von Duuglas-Ittu's channel has been enhanced by this. Good job

That last comment rlly got me lmao- as soon as id gone to my old gym’s kickboxing class and had a session that was just roundkicks on pads back and forth for an hour….really made me question going back to another class there again

No, partner drills are not a replacement for pad work, they are a complement. Yes, partner drills are better for distance and positional training, but they don't teach proper biomechanics of the strikes (no offense, but that's something you should work on more, judging by your demonstrations in the video). With pad work, you can isolate technique training and drill the correct biomechanics using reasonable power. Partner drills complement that with distance and positional training. The heavybag complements that with isolated power training. The double-end bag complements with precision and rythm training. And then you have sparring where you bring everything together in a still safe (and hopeful playful) environment.

As a very new striker with a year and a bit of grappling, I feel like I need more light sparring. Hitting pads is so awkward because if my partner spaces out and holds out the wrong pad then it just feels off. Even worse is that hitting pads just gives me false confidence because the moment we do sparring, I'm scared to get into striking range because I still have a terrible flinch reflex where i close my eyes and can't see shit. I feel like working on defense for beginners would be so much more valuable, just like in BJJ. In BJJ you're supposed to focus on escapes and defense, so that you're not scared to start your own offense. That's exactly my problem in striking. I only throw teeps and leg kicks because they're low commitment. Once they figure that out, I just eat jabs and cover up.

@athenry

Ай бұрын

What you need are partner drills, starting light and then over time getting more "intense". You'll learn to modify your flinch response from "close eyes, look away" to "slip, weave, catch, parry, block" etc. The sparring should come AFTER you have lots of reps actually executing defensive moves against incoming punches. As for teeps and low round kicks, you should start training side kicks and front snapping kicks. I know I know, not very Muay Thai-ish, but they work and help you be more aggressive with your kicks to close in and pummel with fists/elbows and then clinch/takedown.

@Silokkes

Ай бұрын

@@athenry my gym does modified partner drills. They dont actually jab me on the face though, but we parry the jabs and straights. But for hooks we use the “helmet/telephone” block. I have zero flinch there, even when practicing slips and weaves. Imo it doesnt translate to sparring where they’re actually trying to hit you in the face. Just like armchair said, in these drills where you parry, the jab doesnt even get close to me because i will reach out to parry it.

@Leo.23232

Ай бұрын

@@Silokkes there are drills you can do for desensitising yourself to flinching, one where you have your back to the wall and someone else lightly taps your on the forehead for example is good for beginners also do you not use a high guard? as a beginner getting confortable with using a high guard and getting hit with it will help a lot with your confidence in sparring and being able to engage with people properly

@athenry

Ай бұрын

@@Silokkes You should not reach out to parry a jab. That's a really good way to get faked by a jab feint and get hit with a left hook. Keep the parry nice and tight and use more body rotation instead of swatting your hand across. Nothing "directly translates" to sparring except sparring, to be honest. Beginners ARE flinching, being too stiff, too tense, not breathing correctly, gassing out, etc. You have all these techniques and big plans and soon as the bell rings it all flies out the window and you're like"doh! What do I do?" That's normal. Over time, you get used to what's going on, you become more comfortable, and thus more relaxed and more fluid, you think more about what's actually happening and what your choices are, etc. In other words, you get better. But that assumes the sparring is proper for your training level. It should be a LOT of light, technical, and most importantly FUN sparring. You should spar people who are better than you, bigger than you, smaller than you, less experienced and less trained than you, etc. People below your ability/age/size will give you opportunity to try things out and spar without being too stressed. People better and bigger than you will enable you to learn to operate under pressure. But if every spar is a hardcore bloodsport kumite deathmatch you are only going to dread it and flinch and activate every instinctive avoidance mechanism you have - and rightly so! Flinching is instinctive, and even pros do it sometimes. It's just a matter of retraining your defensive instincts to be able to "flinch" in a more effective and defensively responsible manner. And that comes with repetition repetition repetition and exposure to sparring as something FUN which encourages and enables learning and progression. Nothing wrong with telling a sparring partner "Hey, can we go a bit easier?" Hard sparring is necessary EVERY NOW AND THEN if you plan on competing, but only EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE.

@Silokkes

Ай бұрын

@@athenry thanks for the parry tips! But yeah i agree im thinking i should find another gym where they take the sparring more fun. Im like 3 classes in and taking painful shots, which i dont think should be happening right now probably.

When I use pads, i keep them as close to my face as possible so that when the punches are thrown, the striker can throw punches at a range where they should be thrown. It helps the striker establish the range necessary for punching the opponent's face.

@RicoMnc

Ай бұрын

This is how I was trained to use pads, but sometimes things go bad depending on who your partner is...

You've perfectly encapsulated my problems with pads and added points I haven't considered! Great vid!

I've been aware that nobody used any mitts in the golden age of boxing for a while now, which made me reconsider the crucialness of the training method. Most people don't know that guys like Muhammed Ali never hit pads. They weren't around then. As for myself, I always wondered why kicking and punching combos felt different from the pads to sparring... this explains a lot. Now that I think about it, this also explains why guys I know who learned kickboxing primarily through pads can't really gauge the distance or throw actual up low combos well. Great vid. I'd say the one advantage of mitts is that you can move and punch hard and also work your precision. It's the most dynamic way to train hard without punching someone hard. You are supposed to push your punches to full extension through the pad as well, which I think simulates hitting a hard object like a head or a body, but the distance is of course messed up. I guess the expectation is to adjust while sparring once you measure the distance which takes experience regardless. Overall I don't agree with the grand conclusion, but I definitely learned what weakness it can create if you over rely on it as a training tool.

Would love to have you talking with Gabriel Varga about it. If i remember correctly he think pads are one if not the most important part of his training. Knowing why could be interresting

@Buri8128

Ай бұрын

I agree with you and disagree of most the video message and I trust Varga more.

@CJFripp

Ай бұрын

@@Buri8128 Being that it's gabriel, a pro, the distancing issue wouldn't be the same as it would be for a non-pro. I'm curious what he would say as well!

@lihchong2267

Ай бұрын

Varga probably has competent training partners and coaches and instructs good pad holding. A lot of people are terrible at it.

@Buri8128

Ай бұрын

@@lihchong2267 Agree that there are terrible pad holders. But that is also true for light sparring or drill partners. I can agree on the video message that if you do not know how to punch or kick. Just hitting pads wrong will not improve the skill. But I think it is better and more fun hitting hard on pads with a good partner then a heavy bag.

@lihchong2267

Ай бұрын

@@Buri8128 agreed. A good pad holder will provide excellent impetus to work harder than solo drills on a heavy bag. Jake addresses this in the cardio argument.

Oh it's you I didn't recognize you without the Batman shirt.

This is why I prefer Dutch style drills where you practice the combo on an opponent who either catches the punches with their gloves or just shells up so you can work. Edit: I commented this only having watched the first half of the video.

@fiestastboost5788

Ай бұрын

Shelling up and not moving is a bad defensive habbit to get into, kickboxing in the pocket maybe if ur like Zambidis but youll have knees to deal with, muay thai and elbows you will get sliced to pieces. I see it a lot its a bad habbit to let students form. Shell and move or counter cool, shell and stand there shelled for ages and practice that forming a habbit..not good

@pyroseed13

Ай бұрын

@@fiestastboost5788 You can still practice head movement in Dutch style drills, even with a higher guard.

AV love you dude! This actually makes sense! KEEP IT UP!

Excellent video as always, very informative

I've thought this for years. Glad someone finally made a video for it.

@tyrusmfrechs7025

Ай бұрын

Well, it’s an incorrect opinion so

Nice to see you again, Mr Violence. Thanks for the commentary.

One thing I love about pads is not teaching people its using the pads to train my reaction time and reducing flinch from strikes😂. My coach told me padwork is basically a partner drill but its great for training defense.

@looFA_4

Ай бұрын

Just train defense during partner drills.

@Banished-rx4ol

Ай бұрын

@@looFA_4 Doesn’t carry the same intensity as I make sure to have the pad as close to my face as possible and far enough to force my partner to fully extend their shots. I just tell them hit me with whatever and I’ll catch it. My partner gets a good workout where they get to hit a moving human shaped target with full power and intensity thus getting a great workout and I get to train reaction time, defense, and reduce flinch. Let me tell you 3 months of that kind of padwork got rid of my flinch response. Also any good pad holder will hit back to make sure the partner is keeping defense in check. Hell this video is essentially what NOT to do with padwork as most padwork holders have no clue how to use it. Look up some great pad holders like Bryan Popejoy for an example

@looFA_4

Ай бұрын

Well shit, I had a response typed out that I accidently deleted but the gist of it was that I agree the problem lies with pad holders and not so much the pads. I personally prefer shelling up to work on defense and if I get hit that's on me, although I understand not everyone's okay with that. When we did pad work at my gym, you weren't given that much freedom it was more set combos and at that point I'd rather be doing partner drilling. I'm glad you've found a way to maximize pad work for yourself and your partners, but at the end of the day I'd rather use my body as a tool for my partners to learn. I also just don't like holding pads, maybe when I'm older I'll prefer holding pads over getting hit but for now that's not the case. So, at the end of the day it comes down to whatever works best for you or whatever you do to make what you've got work.

@Banished-rx4ol

Ай бұрын

@@looFA_4 I agree though I will say I’m a heavyweight albeit a smaller one (6ft 1in at 227 pounds) so shelling up against the monsters at my gym, for example one guy is 6ft 8in and walks around 292 pounds but he’s trying to lose some bodyfat. I can’t shell up because you can get hurt through the guard and before MMA and kickboxing I spent 16 years in Boxing as an ameteur and sparring partner for high level guys hell I was in Nonito Donaire’s camp because my dad was buddies with his head trainer at the time jonathan penalosa. Unlike MMA boxing heavyweight is an infinite weightlclass meaning there’s no limit. For example recently for the WBA title champion Zheilei Zhang weighed in at 291 pounds against his opponent Joseph Parker who weighed in 247 pounds. Long winded description to say shelling up is good but once you spar or fight someone with natural born power or someone really good at breaking through guards start adding more to the shell. My coach always says if you want to be a shell grow some spikes like an urchin. Gotta get good at countering when the opportunity arises

good work man!

Their is immense benefits to being the padholder. You get to experience strikes coming at you full speed and its a great opportunity to practice defense

@tyrusmfrechs7025

Ай бұрын

Hell yeah brotha. You get it. And working intuition and reading body language. Foot movement and forcing striker to defend. Besides you can’t work a heavy bag around the ring lol

@benhallo1553

Ай бұрын

Bro science

@combatsportsnerd51

13 күн бұрын

Is it a good defense practice method? Because YOU decide which strikes your partner does by holding the pads a certain way. If you hold the pads up straight, partner will do a jab-cross. If you hold one of the pads horizontally, partner will do a hook. And just like the video says, your partner has to wait until you have the pads positioned and are ready before they do the strikes. This is not how real striking is going to be

@Better_MMA

13 күн бұрын

@@combatsportsnerd51 what are you talking about, every high level fighter in the world practices to defend strikes that they know are coming at them, there are countless drills that center around that

@combatsportsnerd51

13 күн бұрын

@@Better_MMA You're not really practicing how to defend against strikes as a pad holder. As a pad holder, you hold pads a certain way, then your training partner hits them. Drills that center around defending strikes (that you know are coming at you) is not the same as being a pad holder. During these drills, the strikes are aimed at hitting you (head, body, etc). While holding pads, strikes are aimed at the pads. While being a pad holder, the thing that you're doing (holding the pads out) is not really the same as what you should be doing when defending against strikes in a fight.

Love it when you show thingy with other people. I love your Videos, they are so good

Man, it was a while since i watched your video, so it was such a blees to see this on my feed today. You are my number one violence enjoyer with open mind and a sharp tongue. I watched all your videos and not a single one was a disappointement (well, the podcast ones make me sleepy, but i just dont like podcasts). I send my warmest thanks to you for teaching and inspiring me to learn from other sources and to have my mind open. Love to you!!❤❤❤

Welcome back Mr. Violence! Can you do the same thing for takedowns and grappling. I run a bjj school and am open to looking at better ways to train my folks. For instance I am focused on doing techniques as warmup, Starting every lesson with a Takedown/Throw, Takedown/Throw counter, a guard pull from the feet or an escape from a negative position to guard before hitting the pass, sweep, backtake or submission. Love your work man!

I love you. Just did Pad work in Kickboxing today.

Love this in-gym background.

@metrolinamartialarts

Ай бұрын

It's a nice gym

i think you made me realise why i quit my last muay thai gym, it was the amount of pad work. I dont claim to know much about fighting so i wont address the actual points you made but from my pov i love combat sports yet couldnt get motivated enough to show up and i never understood why. now i get it, i didnt enjoy holding pads for 30 minutes nor hitting them for 30 when the same couldve been done on a heavybag (which we never did any of, it was pads every session). Thanks, was always wondering how i can enjoy the sport yet at the same time feel so unmotivated and this video helped it click in my head.

@user-ki4xw2rb8q

Ай бұрын

You did well quitting that gym. You can buy a heavy bag and learn way more by yourself watching youtube, which is sad..

@yotornadoyo

Ай бұрын

@@user-ki4xw2rb8q Not true at all

@mannam9468

Ай бұрын

My gym is the same, i will confront my father and the coach about it and if no changes are made i will leave.

@mattlindberg3632

Ай бұрын

@@mannam9468combat sport gym owners have to realize that their students are keeping them in business and not the staff. Fighters don’t know how much they sick at running a gym.

@fawazahmed4978

Ай бұрын

@@mannam9468 ive joined a different boxing gym (no other muay thais in my area) and its GREAT, never realised how much more motivated i am with zero padwork. Would recommend you switch if you can, coaches find it difficult to change their practices but all the best regardless bro

How about: visualization? Like with the speedbag, heavy bag or god forbid Kata you and your partner KNOW what target the pads are for and cater for it. The argument with kicking striking combos having false distance is lifted by you know the pad holder stepping back and holding the pads in the correct distance. I .think pads are a good middle ground for training more committed strikes with speed while still being able to have accuracy. i know I KNOW I will get flagged for it but look at olympique taekwondo athletes still doing padwork for accuracy and speed.

Thank you!

Most of the problems with pad holding that you mention only apply to student on student pad drills. One of the most valuable drills you can do is pad work/mitt work with a trainer or experienced pad man. It simulates fight intensity, fight movements, it mixes offensive drills and defensive drills (getting smacked with a pad for keeping your hands too low sucks!), and puts the pad man right in a position to see everything you're doing well and not doing well and can give you great live coaching. You can't replicate that with bag work, partner drills, or even light sparring. Hard sparring is better but you shouldn't do hard sparring more than a couple of times a week to minimize risk injury and to avoid taking too much damage. You can do pad work every day. Top level pad work is the best daily fight prep you can do.

@luizfabrette7450

Ай бұрын

Well, even if we assume the ultimate greater pad holder, the range problem remains. They ALWAYS hold the pads shorter and off centre of their own faces. And, about giving those great live coachings, the "pad man" can easily see everything you're doing if he simply look at you fighting in partner drill as well. In fact, I'm pretty sure he can see it even better, since he has only to look, and not to worry about the pad holding part.

@hoop6988

Ай бұрын

That’s assuming that the average person learning to fight has access to high level pass holders.

@channel-nv9xc

Ай бұрын

@@luizfabrette7450 that's only going to build a bad habit if that's the only training you do. A good training program will have days where you're on the bag, days where you're doing partner drills, days where you're sparring and days where you're doing pad work. All of them together plug holes that any one of them would have on their own. But not doing pad work leaves an extremely valuable tool on the table. People make way too much of the pads being short or off center. In a fight, your opponent could be shorter, taller, fatter, thinner, defensive or mobile and you have to adjust to their dimensions on the fly. I've never not hit an opponent in the face just because they're taller and more centered than my pad man lol.

@channel-nv9xc

Ай бұрын

@@hoop6988 a good Muay Thai program will usually have the coach and sometimes a senior student rotate a round or two of pad time with each student.

@hoop6988

Ай бұрын

@@channel-nv9xc well know that’s even worse because I’ve been to some gums where the coach and top students suck at holding pads.

You have some great points but pads are still very useful for striking skills. When people throw strikes they are supposed to throw them with control- not just throw blindly. You should be able to just strike a target and transfer your power into it without following all the way through. This is where you get your “snap” in your strikes that the elite fighters have. They actually don’t do the pads just for cardio- they literally can read where and what distance a pad is. Throwing at immobile objects like heavy bags does not fully develop this skill. Basically your partner should be able to just move their pad suddenly out of the way and you will stop your strike and pull back without following through. This is that control that elite fighters have. Pads are also great at developing combos and precision on a moving target and greatly increases punch accuracy. I agree that partner drills are super important as well but they need to supplemented with skilled pad work. Good pad holders- truly good pad holders are worth their weight in gold at the upper levels of fighting.

This is shockingly true and important. I've been training martial arts and watching tutorials on KZread for like 7 years, and I've never heard anyone talk about this. Great video!

@tyrusmfrechs7025

Ай бұрын

Bullshit. I bet you’ve never fought though, have you? What light TKD or something cute?

Dude, pads are crazy important. Have you seen thai boxers use pads? Its 5, 5 minute rounds of hell.

@OnwardUnknowing

Ай бұрын

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it sounds like you're describing the cardio workout aspect that he conceded to

@tyrusmfrechs7025

Ай бұрын

@@OnwardUnknowing omfg no You get cardio, yes, while learning angling and intuitive back and forth with your partner. There’s so many ppl here that have obviously never fought with such big opinions. This coming from a boxer and Thai Boxer. I’ve put in countless hours of work. Mitt work, pad drills, bag work, sparring, and other partner drills all come together. It’s naive and childish to say one is better than the other. It depends on what you’re working on ffs You gonna go to Thailand and tell Superbon and Trainer Gae that pad work is useless? Fuckin please

@OnwardUnknowing

Ай бұрын

@@tyrusmfrechs7025 Honestly, great response. You’re right. Though I have fought and won my fights (only two so far), I kind of thought maybe the video had a point about cardio because our gym, which does lots of padwork, is known for being very cardio heavy, and it wins us fights. I was thinking of some other local gyms who don’t use pad work but still win some fights and thought the video must have some points. But you’re 100% right about the angling stuff and back and forth. Also talked to my Kru some about it and he mentioned that people who only do Dutch drills often end up hurting their forearms. Yeah, I wouldn’t want to go without padwork. I also think it helps practice putting combos together, with force. A bag can’t move back when you move forward on a double jab or 1-2. My first comment was dumb. My b.

@SuddenRushman

19 күн бұрын

Mitts for pad work didn't exist before the 1970s, so it can't be CRAZY important...

@tyrusmfrechs7025

15 күн бұрын

@@SuddenRushman mitts and pads are not the same thing

When I was a beginner, I was taught that pad holders should be training with the person striking. Your argument for just doing partner drills does make sense, but I think you're landing in a bit of slippery slope territory. With beginners, it's not just getting punched that intimidates them. They're also worried about hitting other people and hurting them (in my experience). I find that pads are a great set of training wheels, because any hesitant person I've trained has had no reservations about hitting pads. Aside from bridging that gap, the way I was taught to hold pads was to behave as an opponent and "learn defense" in the process of holding pads. My partner should be punching at my face and I should be stopping it from getting there with the pad. Like a parry. The "authenticity" of my padwork depends on my partner's level. With a beginner, I'll be like "here comes the hook train! Choo choo! Roll!" But with a person who has experience, I'll literally throw a hook with the pad. The distance needs to be correct for them to need to roll. That comes full circle to your argument for partner drills, which, I agree are good. But I think padwork is good for more than cardio, no need for a hot take.

@luizfabrette7450

Ай бұрын

Pad holding as a "learn defense" method is probably one of the worst ideas. You don't learn defense while pad holding, You develop the habit of trying to catch your opponent's punches and when you go sparring, they start feinting and you end up with your hands catching nothing in the air and your chin exposed.

@hoop6988

Ай бұрын

@@luizfabrette7450another thing about pad work is that it teaches the wrong type of parrying. I’ve seen some guys try to parry uppercuts when they’re already out of range or some guys try to catch crosses with their rear hand.

@ZovcDrafts

Ай бұрын

@@luizfabrette7450 You might be overlooking the part where I say your opponent should be punching at your head. If they aren't punching at your head, you don't need to put the pad in the way. Just like if your opponent isn't punching at you, you don't need to parry a punch.

@luizfabrette7450

Ай бұрын

​@@ZovcDrafts you are correct about defending only when the punches are actually directed towards you. But even taking your point into account, what I said is the habit of trying to catch your opponent's punches (even if only the ones who are aimed "at your head") and when you go sparring, they start feinting and you end up with your hands catching nothing in the air and your chin exposed.

@ZovcDrafts

Ай бұрын

@@luizfabrette7450 this hasn't been my experience, but it seems like you really know what you're talking about.

Good food for thought. I can’t wait for Icy Mike’s two cents on this

nice one... also I'm really looking forward to your "attrition doctrine" vs "movement doctrine" video you talked about in that podcast not too long ago

@TreyYork1

Ай бұрын

Any chance you can remember the name of the podcast?

@lastmanstanding5423

Ай бұрын

@@TreyYork1 it was a long form podcast on the Ramsy Dewey's channel. Gimme a sec I'll try to find a link.

@lastmanstanding5423

Ай бұрын

​@@TreyYork1 it looks like youtube started censoring the links to it's own video o.O I just tried to share a link but my comment got deleted. So I hope this works. The title is: "Armchair Violence (on the Ramsey Dewey podcast #47)"

@TreyYork1

Ай бұрын

Thanks!

ive always felt fighters over complicate training. there really is no substitute for fighting. just fight less often, less hard, or hit a bag. also, every fighter should do ACTUALL STRENGTH TRAINING if they are serious, and not that bs where they take a light weight and try to move it fast for seemingly infinite reps.

@0n344

Ай бұрын

Fight COACHES over complicate training because teaching novelty techniques makes them look impressive to people who don't actually want to fight

I had just literally paused my membership to my gym because of this issue and this video pops up. You tube's algorithm is creepy. Great work man..

Most boxing gyms Ive trained in the padwork is usually done by the coach and often is when you get one on one time with him picking apart your technique. Rest of the time is shadow boxing, bags, skipping, partner drills, sparring, or downstairs to hell to meet the devil (the conditioning coach)

Padwork is not a substitute for partner drilling; they're complimentary. Your joints have mechanoreceptors that require the feedback from contact to fully adapt, and allows you to train various changes in combinations, distance and angle against a moving target *with contact.* A rough hierarchy might look like: 1. Solo technical work 2. Solo (various) bag work 3. Pad work 4. positional sparring 5. Technical sparring Distance and timing are roughed out with pad work and refined in positional and technical sparring. They have their uses and their limitations. No training method is fighting; they're all approximations, or modles of flights. All models are wrong (but some are useful.) There are no solutions, only tradeoffs. It's all a matter of using the right tool, at the right time, in the right dose.

This video is legit. I’m sending this to my gym buddies! I’ve always called what you described as partner drills, “Dutch drills” or “Dutch drilling”

@salvospeaks

Ай бұрын

Yeah we have "dutch pads" which is partner drilling for my gym

Damn! Once again you’ve hit the nail on the head! Which is better than pulling the hammer just before it hits. I have refused to use pads when I teach Muay Thai, because of everything you’ve just mentioned. Since ditching the pads, my stepson, along with my class, has improved their distance management quite a bit. The difference is night and day.

Least provocative armchair violence video 😂

If you have more in stock about training methodologies i'm all for it !

Hitting pads it's functional, it all depends if the coach is good at it

This is why gyms usually end up splitting striking classes in half, with people still stressed by striking on the mat with pads and the people that dont flinch in the ring(s) doing partner drills. Pads should be dropped once you've passed that threshold.

Partner drilling is easier said than done. Beginners have huge issues controlling and knowing how to do things light. Hell even a lot of intermediate people don't know how to flow spar. Yet I agree partner drilling/flow sparing you learn much more.

its great that I find your channel. I also have my fair share of problems with how most people do pad work, but I think what u are talking about has more to do with how people hold pads WRONG. for example, I hold pads right next to my head, for the exact purpose of teaching the right distance. of course this comes at a higher risk, but so far I have not been hit in the face by accident because I work on students being more accurate than power punches in pad works, which is another one of your good points: pad work is for movements un like heavy bags. once students are good enough to be safe in true distance pad works, It give them more chance to strike with true movements of two person, which is an other big part of what I try to accomplish in pad works: seeing the opportunity and strike. which I don't prearrange the combo as much, but show them the targets and ask them to see it and act on it.

That push kick though lol

Pad Work is good for teaching proper technique and especially with small boxing Mits pads, you learn ducking, bobbing and weaving while the trainer moves around with you to get used to following a target.( Mitwork ) Once you have proper technique, then start partner drills which leads to sparring.

I completely agree with this: I had a Muay Thai fight and afterwards my kicks on the padwork sucked, because no one was holding the pads properly so I would need to change accurate kicks for bad form. It's absolutely a horrible gearing up for sparring and means you have to make accomodations. You're better off doing bag work and sparring and just rinse and repeat. In fact, just put on regular gloves and shin guards and do drills like in the video.

I think it is very valid critique. Still I think there are some benefits that were left out, e.g. practicing fast reaction: I show you need to punch immediately, practicing guard: Your guard is open, I hit you, practicing some distancing: you don’t retreat fast enough, I hit you etc. This Mixing Kicks and Punches bugs me. As here distancing is really somewhat messed up… also I think it is good to do some padwork (holder shows you where you have flaws) and some of the strike works you talked about (you get to see the actual distancing and the actual possibilities for strike backs). I think keeping the pad holder safe is good for some scenarios as you mentioned, especially when the holder is allowed to add some punches when the striker doesn’t have solid guard. It prevents the whole thing from ppl flailing at each other and spiraling to oblivion. But as always, very good food for thought.

Pads are also awesome for social media. Something about it just looks cool.

Padwork teaches the holder hand defense, combinations etc. Many people hit pads because it work, when done right. Useless if it’s done wrong.. partner drills are great but different

That's mainly a rant about bad training partners and drills. I know that can be very frustrating but pads are versatile if you know what they're good and bad for and bad training partners can spoil anything.

I used to hate padwork for all the reasons u have just stated well done for pointing it out more people need to hear it

This is what the best Thai boxers do, drills in front of the person and just light fighting trying to catch each other without hurting each other

This man never misses

I still really like pad rounds *with a good holder****. Our gym teaches that you just barely pat down by a tiny ammount at the last seccond so that they're not coming forward so much. We spar light daily so we can learn everything pads cant teach you but I love pad rounds because theyre the most dynamic way that I can throw anything in a combo at a whatever power I want. Hard to spar with elbows knees punches kicks clinch etc. We get 3 rounds each of pads a decent bit of bag work and some drills then sparring. Pad work deffinently has a place because unless you're absolutely murdering you're sparing partners it's hard to get certain things nicely from other methods. Sparring is king but I dont feel like eating a tomahawk elbow.

No. You use pad work to practice muscle memory, power, cardio and speed. Sure if you have a bad pad-holder it sucks but that's usually a beginners issue. Once you start fighting , your team and your coaches knows how to hold pads proper. This is honestly a weird video seeing as all the best fighters from Muay thai to mma to boxing to bareknuckle boxing etc use pads. The whole distance example is again only a factor with a bad pad holder. It sucks, but so does having a bad sparring or drill partner. The concept works and the results have been seen for as long as there have been pads around.

Partner drills pad work , heavy bag, double end bag, Light playful sparring and ocasional hard sparring are how you get good at striking. Shadow boxing has a place as warm up and cool downs as well.

Have you been to Thailand? I lived over there, amazing pad holders, great training.

Padwork is useful only to drill muscle memory with hard striking without potentially injuring someone. Also my pad holder is only my coach

A difference I've noticed is that when we mess up a combo on pads, we're more likely to stop/ pull or reset because we don't want to miss the pads or hurt our partner. But when we're doing partner drills, people more naturally seem to to adjust and make their mistakes a different attack. This is the correct response we want to instill for when we see our target change mid-attack. Partner drills give us a better feel for when we're actually in position for the technique, different ones we can use if it fails etc.

Didn't Sugar Ray Leonard, only train on the heavy bag? I seem to recall something about how the pads are a fairly recent introduction into the strike training area.

This makes me really appreciate my University's boxing society. The only people who hold pads are the trained instructors and they never move the pads towards us, since there are more students than instructors we have to rotate between which student can do pad work, and when that happens everyone who isn't doing pads is instructed to either work on a bag or do light contact exercises with a partner, so the pad to other excercise ratio is good. Also their pad excercises are less about getting used to hitting pads and more about giving each student one on one time with a instructor so they can observe and correct form. Thanks for helping me see how lucky I am to have instructors who know what they're doing

Padwork doesnt suck; its just to easy for padholders to suck and learn the other guy very wrong habits With that said; I do padwork very seldom

@oxitocin7718

Ай бұрын

you mean teach the other guy wrong habits

"A striking-inspired cardio workout." Well put.

For all the reasons you listed is why I hire an actual coach that knows how to hold. If the person doesn't know how to hold, then you're not going to get something out of it

High level coaches that know how to hold and can help a fighter develop stategy are priceless

My boxing gym does do pad work, obviously. But we definitely do more partner drilling and bag work. With partner drilling, it’s definitely “don’t knock your partner out, please” lol

Armchair violence indeed. How many world class strikers have you built without good pad holding? All the problems you described are fixed by just having an excellent pad holder. A good striking coach should model this and every fight team member should be able to hold pads well for their ream members.

@WhenYouveGoneGuru

Ай бұрын

But his content isn't primarily targeted at world class strikers. It's mostly for hobbyists and the fact that you will struggle to find a good pad holder in your average gym is a valid concern. I do think he exaggerates this and overlooks a lot of the advantages of pads but there are reasonable criticisms here as well.

@phuongvu527

4 күн бұрын

​@@WhenYouveGoneGuruIndeed, fair point

I had never really thought about pad training and its impact, but yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Nice talk.

Yup, I've used pads alot but not really trained to use them. That movement of the pad toward a strike never made sense, and I never did it.

How would it even be possible to learn striking solely using pads? Nobody does that.

@lihchong2267

Ай бұрын

Plenty try. I've been to many classes where all striking was done on pads - no drills, no heavy bag, no sparring. A lot of this is in the fitness space, but plenty of kickboxing classes operate this way too.

@SkepticalMantisCHANNEL10

Ай бұрын

​@@lihchong2267 U can learn if the padholder is a competent coach.

@yotornadoyo

Ай бұрын

@ZeroBudgetDude You need something else though to learn how to punch and kick fast and hard. Either pads or bag.

I always knew there was a reason I didnt see the point of pad work but I couldnt put my finger on it.

Agreed. Hitting pads is a great conditioning tool, but should never replace more specific training modalities like drilling or sparring.

omg that's so true about screwing up the range. What do you think about maybe tying pads to outside thighs so that kicks could be practiced with at least some power?

Brilliant explanation, pad work is everywhere, people go out and train to be pad holders but I no longer think that’s worth it. I think pad work could be good for the pad holder to see the techniques that the person has, eg, how they rotate there arm, swing the leg for a kick, as a way to make corrections but most of the time the pad holder is a beginner who at the time knows sod all about even holding pads. Your videos are interesting and make a lot of sense. Thanks

Thank you for mentioning the slapback. I've trained with people who move pads way too much. I might only need to articulate about two inches with them.

I admit that my sample size is small, but in the two muay thai gyms I've been in Singapore pads were only held by coaches. You would practice power on bags, techniques with partner drilling, and then you would alternate doing pads with the coach, who would either focus om every single strike to get your technique on point, or push you hard for. conditioning. I think that's A useful and B the way the thing was thought to be used in the first place

Content!

👍 i’ve been doing this exact thing for years. Partner training over pad training . Though I do think pad training still does have some merit.

On the other hand, pad-work mimics being attacked by a dual-purse wielding hipster.

Been training in gyms for years and now I'm training more at home. The main thing I use to train is a double end bag and a heavy bag. I do a lot of shadowboxing as well. The double end bag is addicting to hit. Sometimes I'll find myself hitting it for an hour straight.

The way my coach holds pads we might as well be sparring 😂

I agree 99% and I would love to see more content on ways commercial fight gyms completely waste your time, because they do. I hate pad work unless I'm with an actual coach, don't get someone with no idea what he's doing to hold pads for me and waste time both me and him are paying you for! Anyway, I have some minor disagreements on it being completely useless: 1. You can uppercut and include the uppercut in a combo which you can't do on a heavy band 2. You can throw a hook closer to the correct distance, on a heavy bag you're throwing it out to the side, which teaches you to load up I don't think it's completely useless for the pad holder, it helps you stay calm with strikes hitting your arms but I suppose partner drilling does that even better so there's not much point. Overall I agree, we'd be better off not having it as part of regular training, maybe only doing it with an experienced holder right before a fight. Also if you have to do it, I think you should just repeat the same multi strike combo for a round. That shit where they pick the strike and you have to react each time is unnecessarily difficult for both the striker and the pad holder in a way that doesn't translate to actual fighting skill, as you said about many other aspects of pad holding.

I had a guy who was good with pads for boxing, and this really made me appreciate them so much more than I already did. I really liked his pacing and the range was very natural compared to my normal boxing to the point it felt easier to get my range actually boxing at times. However, it was boxing afterall so, I imagine it's just so much easier to do there considering you only deal with punches. Only benefit I found from pad work was a bit of clarity, it's fun with friends who want to learn basic combinations or something but other than seeing what it's like no benefits. Just to clarify I'm not disagreeing or anything, I'm just glad the pad work I've had didn't cause me to do this and actually benefited me. I never considered this.

I respectfully disagree with almost everything you said but I can see your point

Actually largely agree, however good pad holder can mitigate lot of the issues mentioned. Still, I've found myself doing more partner drilling when training precisely for the reason you mentioned, it has more similar feel as sparring and mechanics.