John Amos was always brilliant as Admiral Fitzwallace. His gravitas and intelligence always just knocked me down.

@hoognj

Ай бұрын

John is one of the great actors of this generation

@sadjaxx

Ай бұрын

He should have had more roles like this, so many more damn roles like this. The man was amazing. Rest in Peace.

@wmwestbroek

29 күн бұрын

@@sadjaxxJohn Spencer is dead, but John Amos is 84 and counting.

I was crushed when they killed off his character. Fitz was one of my favorites. John Amos is an incredible actor.

@hungram5170

4 жыл бұрын

Fantastic. Always convincing.

@Kelveron

4 жыл бұрын

Big fan of John Amos too. Always excellent in whatever role he has had. John Spencer was great too, RIP.

@Vnachi8

3 жыл бұрын

I was blindsided by the deaths of James Evans and Percy FitzWallace. John Amos gut punched me twice in prime time.

@jennifersman7990

3 жыл бұрын

He always demanded respect in any role he played and he was GREAT as a Navy Admiral

@ebybeehoney

3 жыл бұрын

I remember crying...

You can probably count on one hand the number of characters in the entire history of television that carried as much dignity as Fitzwallace.

Had the honor of speaking with Jon Amos today about this scene. He just humbly praised Aaron Sorkin's writing. This scene is indelibly imprinted in my mind.

@beezlbobdestraint6869

8 жыл бұрын

Shame that half of it is flat-out wrong.

@RichardDHerring

8 жыл бұрын

The acting is superb, and Amos was a humble guy from Newark, the place I met him last year. My response is a reaction to the brutality that current low-level conflicts and terrorism are creating, especially among civilians. Regarding Yamamoto, I am relying upon accounts in Wikipedia. I am witholding my thoughts on the operation. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vengeance.

@JPF941

5 жыл бұрын

how so?

@Vnachi8

4 жыл бұрын

This one and his equally forceful, but wrapped in a velvet glove scene on gays in the military are both master classes.

@johnmcgowan2348

4 жыл бұрын

Meeting Jon Amos would floor me.

John Amos is one of our finest actors, equally adept at comedy and drama. Paired with the amazing John Spencer, this scene showcases them both.

@belvert1

5 жыл бұрын

absolutely. John Amos brought such a gravitas to his role. Kudos to the writers and casting director, and huge props to the man himself for adding to the character. This scene always gives me chills, because it argues the points as they SHOULD be argued. "And pretty soon, it's just another crazy general with guns....sorry, Fitz!" LOVED THAT SHOW!

@Vnachi8

4 жыл бұрын

In my opinion he was unfairly killed off of two shows, both of which suffered for his loss.

@derricklafrance9440

3 жыл бұрын

DY-NO-MITE

@jimhirsch4482

Жыл бұрын

You bet. I remember him in the Mary Tyler Moore Show, Good Times, ROOTS, et al. The ultimate professional actor!!

@darbyheavey406

Жыл бұрын

When did he transfer from the SOF?

Two world-class actors in an incredible scene. Doesn't get any better.

The look in John Amos eyes when he says "I've got an enemy I can kill" still sends goosebumps op my spine, acting, writing doesn't get any better the this! ❤️

@bladactania

3 жыл бұрын

The look on his face just before he says "I've been a soldier for 38 years..." is the key moment. You can see the look on his face change when he realizes what he's going to say to Leo.

John Amos is simply a great actor. Any time Fitzwallace was in a scene, he simply commanded attention.

The dialogue in this scene is absolutely perfect, EXCEPT a Navy admiral would call himself a sailor, never a soldier.

@mrferno86

4 жыл бұрын

I agreee, however when this discussion became philosophical I believe he used the term soldier for that philosophical argument

@killnotic

4 жыл бұрын

I don't think it's out of character; Fitz's always given off an old soldier vibe. I also think Admiral Fitzwallace was trying to connect with Leo, an airman, by reminding him of their shared service without bogging things down in semantics. Besides, only Marines constantly need to remind people they're Marines. 😉 🙌🏽

@LHOactedalone

4 жыл бұрын

killnotic thank you for capitalizing the title. 🤘🏽

@cjjonez

4 жыл бұрын

Its little stuff like this non military people do not get. Many feel these terms are interchangeable or dont matter....My thing the concept of a black ⭐⭐⭐⭐ admiral amazing then being the Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff lets you know in principle Fritz not to be messed with. That man cruised hell with a broken bottle and a gallon of gas looking daring trouble to show up.

@FutureReverberations

4 жыл бұрын

Give him a break... he was distracted by Leos hair.

The shampoo interchange between Fitz and Leo was such a great way to diffuse the tension.

"The laws of nature don't even apply here." John Amos delivered that line perfectly. And, when dealing with extremists, truer words were never spoken.

@bikesnippets

Жыл бұрын

Even right-wing "christian" extremists?

@MrGruffteddybear

Жыл бұрын

@@bikesnippets Extremists are the same, no matter the religion used.

@StsFiveOneLima

Жыл бұрын

@@bikesnippets Depends on whether they're the killing type.

@Tarnatos14

Жыл бұрын

Well but isnt it a mockery of laws if we say they dont aply, is not the idear to seperate laws from gudings, a law ALWAYS apply in its field, because its a law?

@Christobanistan

Жыл бұрын

@@bikesnippets Even left wing "communist" or "Antifa" or environmental extremists? Violent extremists come in all shapes!

The West Wing is responsible for some of the greatest scenes in Drama Television history. This scene is a contender for the best written, directed, acted, and all around presented television ever. “Beat that with a stick”.

@vangroover1903

9 ай бұрын

It makes no sense, though. Yamamoto was a serving military officer killed in battle. The Lord High Admiral is proposing a peacetime assassination.

John Amos was quite literally the PERFECT man to play this role. His delivery here was flawless.

@JD-ij5fi

3 жыл бұрын

Everyone on this show was the perfect actor for their part!

"I don't know who the leading expert on warfare is but any list of the top has got to include me." Only Sorkin writes a line like that.

@nameommited

4 жыл бұрын

dumb, if anyone ever said that kind of thing in real life to me, id laugh and walk away.

@msalzberg4962

4 жыл бұрын

@@nameommited I think if the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said it, you'd best listen.

@davidcat1455

3 жыл бұрын

@@msalzberg4962 If the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff said it to me I’d dam well stand to attention.

@andrew_4747

2 жыл бұрын

@@nameommited Depends on the context, but I'm guessing you would never be in a position to speak this frankly with the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

@pbdye1607

2 жыл бұрын

As a CJCS, he'd have gone to a War College (or several) and had practical experience leading forces in battle, and the US (often unfortunately) has the most battle experience of any nation. His statement is valid. It's like the scene in Good Will Hunting in the park, tons of people can claim expertise in the *scholarship* of war, reading the historiography of it and making their own postulations, but someone like Fitz has a lifetime of practical experience, having started as an enlisted man and ending up as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

“Can you tell when it’s peace time and war time anymore?” It’s sad that applies today

@georgebarota651

5 жыл бұрын

tyler hilpisch It has been true since, at least, the early 50s.

@georgebarota651

5 жыл бұрын

tyler hilpisch It has been true since, at least, the early 50s.

@Weesel71

4 жыл бұрын

I think we can thank the "religion of peace" for that. Invading, infiltrating, and conquering since the 7th century.

@Weesel71

4 жыл бұрын

@@Trust-Yourself-1st Pretty much the same difference IMO. If it weren't for mohammed (piss be upon him), I doubt the saudis would be much problem; no mohammed, no wahhabi. (unless they found somethings else to get their burnooses in a twist over.) HAGO.

@TheAngelOfDeath01

4 жыл бұрын

It's been like this for a very long time. There once was a war people said to be The War to end All Wars. It's done the very opposite.

Along with the scene in the Oval Office when Toby confronts Bartlett about M.S., this scene was the best television I've ever watched. Aaron Sorkin must have been so pleased to see this gem of a scene he wrote get nailed by two incredible actors that knew their roles so well. "The laws of NATURE don't even apply here!" I'll never forget that line, it really stuck.

@markdiaddario6398

Жыл бұрын

To unbelievable actors, there were so many in this program.

Fitz: "Have you changed shampoo? You have. I can tell. 'cause your hair seems bouncy and more manageble." Leo: "I like to look good for you." Fitz: "Well, I appreciate it." This is such a beautiful start of the conversation on war and what is human. How does a writer come up with that.

@zylosmom

7 жыл бұрын

Because Sorkin has no equal.

@michaelweber4705

7 жыл бұрын

That is a fantastic work of dialog.

@TheLibran38

5 жыл бұрын

from what I have read Sorkin was brilliant, but also had issues with drugs. perhaps the two are related?

@karahopemorningstar

5 жыл бұрын

@@TheLibran38 No. Drugs don't fuel the man's work. The drugs are only a struggle to overcome.

@stephaniegilstrap1261

4 жыл бұрын

@@zylosmom Agreed!!!

*John Amos is one of the most UNDERRATED ACTORS in history.*

This show started in the 1990's and there STILL has never been a better show.

@middyseafort

8 жыл бұрын

+Boyd Crowder Agree. The West Wing and the original Star Trek are two shows I can watch over and over again with getting tired of it.

@Ididntaskforahandleyoutube

8 жыл бұрын

+Ryan Thomas Riddle Two brilliant shows right there.

@dwightwilliams5892

8 жыл бұрын

+Boyd Crowder Agreed. Others have been as good. But none better.

@pedonbio

8 жыл бұрын

+Boyd Crowder --Except "Better Call Saul" shows promise.

@caesaroctopus9439

8 жыл бұрын

+Boyd Crowder The Wire is the only other contender in terms of the level of political/social realism achieved in The West Wing. I love both shows equally.

"The laws of nature don't even apply here." Truer words were never spoken.

I have every episode, and have watched them all four times over. As far as I'm concerned, there has never been before or since The West Wing a show that has Every Thing. It had comedy, drama, action, sexual tension, sad bits, happy bits, darkness and light, etc. etc.. Above all of that, however, was a combination of three things: great scripts, great acting and awesome directing. Each and every person involved in the creation and delivery of this masterpiece deserves nothing but the highest of honours.

John Amos brought a level of dignity to that role that could be measured in megatonage.

@bigdog95355

3 жыл бұрын

Naw not megatonage, more like gigatonage.

I loved John Amos in this role. Brilliant casting.

The character of ADM Fitz was very well thought out, equal mix of warrior, philosopher, and person. He brought a very articulated point of view to whichever topic involved with. Didn’t hurt the ADM was played by a great actor Mr Amos.

The level of acting and of writing and of thought on this show was absolutely staggering in its brilliance. How I had always wanted to see John Amos in a great role like this.

One of my favorite scenes, and not just from this series. Amos is on fire, especially his last lines. You believe he’s prepared to move ahead, with or without orders.

@skully1110

4 жыл бұрын

I do, anyway.

@SuperWIDEgaming

6 ай бұрын

And yet we know Fitzwallace would have the integrity to resign before defying or disobeying orders. It just isn't in him to do so. So now we know he has the passion for the mission that you describe, harnessed by his integrity. He's rolling for a seven with this conversation with Leo, to continue the mission, using an argument he could not make with Bartlett. He knows Leo could complete the play, and he was right. One of my favs as well. The layers are thick.

The bit about the battle of Agincourt was ridiculous. Heralds didn't decide the winners, the French withdrawing from the field after suffering massive casualties did. And if a soldier laid down their arms, they were treated humanely and then ransomed, UNLESS they weren't noble. If they weren't noble they were usually murdered. Common wounded on the battlefield were usually murdered by scavengers from the winning side and the locals in the surrounding area. Safe conduct was only a real possibility to the ennobled. I don't get how they get that so wrong in this clip because it's such a fantastic show.

@CyberiusT

8 жыл бұрын

+hilariousnickname It's a good story. "Hollywood" (the movie/tv industry really) gets *everything* wrong - from medicine or flying aeroplanes (despite many actors being pilots who should know better), or infinite zoom on photos, down to the simple act of brushing teeth. Some of it is ignorance, some is difficulty depicting things properly, but *most* of it comes down to simply ""this reads better".

@maxben3391

8 жыл бұрын

+hilariousnickname That was true until the Hundred Years war and famously after the Battle of Agincourt the noble hostages were murdered (for good reason but still)

@doubtingthomas6146

8 жыл бұрын

All true. It's worth noting Admiral Fitzwallace got another detail wrong; it was not the French fighting the British. It was the French fighting the Engliah.

@christopherlouis3201

8 жыл бұрын

+Doubting Thomas no, they fought the british (welsh archers)

@doubtingthomas6146

8 жыл бұрын

No, Britain didn't exist until the acts of Union in 1707. Welsh archers or no, France fought England.

I loved John Amos in this show. The relationship between Fitzwallace and Pres Bartlett seems to naturally grow over time as they begin to understand who each other are. They were both uneasy with the other initially and Fitzwallace ends up as a high level assistant to the Pres when he’s assassinated.

@coraggio93

4 ай бұрын

John Amos' character is killed off in this show?? Damn, I was interested in watching it...!

We are living in this episode now.

@fezmancomments

4 жыл бұрын

Andrew Nibbi Yes, it seems to be a recurring storyline.

@op3129

4 жыл бұрын

season 1: "what is the point of a proportional response" and then years later: kzread.info/dash/bejne/npynlrltm7uYpdI.html

@Myrdden71

4 жыл бұрын

We've been living in it since before terrorists blew up the Marine barracks in Lebanon in the 1980s. Terrorists do not surrender, do not follow the rules of war, do not care if they die as long as they are attempting to kill their enemies. You cannot make peace with terrorists.

@YTW-rw6pr

3 жыл бұрын

Meaning Drumpf?

@OzSaints66

3 жыл бұрын

No we're not, the USA has an idiot for a president in the real world, give the world Bartlet any day over the current moron

I love Admiral Fitzwallace. I love Leo McGarry. Getting them both in the same scene with such great dialog gives me chills. Amazing characters and outstanding acting by both of these men in every scene they are in.

Undeniably one of the best scenes in one of the best dramas ever.

“I like to look good for ya”…. that tension breaker line is so good, so poetic.

What an impressive scene. I love the fun beginning and the build up to the argument.

Two top notch actors at the top of their game.

One thing about West Wing that made it unique. It talked about issues.

@richard40x

4 жыл бұрын

In a balanced way as well, although medieval war was not as idealized as he claimed it was, war never has been. This scene was fair to both points of view, no leftie bias here, like in most TV. Not sure that was always the case with West Wing, they did have leftie bias sometimes, but not in this scene.

@AnasKhan-ht2tb

4 жыл бұрын

@@richard40x Dude ,West Wing had Liberal bias top to bottom, from the characters to the viewpoints to the payoffs and messages. Adding a couple of token Republican-good-guy characters doesn't make it 'balanced' by any standards. But then again, it's a simple fact that you can't create complex meaningful heroic characters on Right wingers. Like someone said Reality does have a Liberal bias. You can't champion a character/hero who doesn't believe in socio-political-religious individual freedom and human equality. Unless of course you're writing a John McClain for a Die Hard, but that's a different kind of entertainment we're taking about.

One of the best scenes in The West Wing, seriously.

One of the best monologues ever delivered, and delivered by John Amos. Powerful stuff.

To be fair, yamamoto was legit military target. A uniformed officer in the front lines during an openly declared war.

@vangroover1903

9 ай бұрын

It's actually a gaping, bleeding hole in his entire argument. Only Kunta Kinte could deliver it with such delicious bite, but it makes him seem stupid, and Lord High Admiral Fitzwallace was hardly stupud.

If this isn't absolute proof of the incredible genius that was/is Aaron Sorkin.....this is by far THE best written show in the history of television. Period.

@paulw.woodring7304

Жыл бұрын

When I think of the sh*t show of the Trump years, that is when I think about what could, should have been (and not with Hillary either). How many network shows think enough of their audience to give an episode a title in Latin, or have the main character curse out God in Latin?

after watching clips on u tube, I think $65 for the full series of West Wings is worth the money

@ZATennisFan

4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely.. I've started rewatching the whole thing for the 4th time...

@AnthonyJ504

4 жыл бұрын

The entire series is on Netflix just fyi

@cherylb6755

4 жыл бұрын

Steven Goehring~ I’m re-watching it... again. I take it out of the library on DVD. That said. I agree with you completely. 👏🏻🎬🎁🎆🍾💖

@raymondstern9046

4 жыл бұрын

Very much agree as the whole series is currently on Netflix

@mattheModest

4 жыл бұрын

Good god, no. Just torrent it all.

Fitz was such an awesome character.

Amos added incredible depth to the series--they should have kept him to the end. He portrayed complexity with the subtlety of a light breeze--a breath of air, a darting half-glance. Where is American TV now without this?

Unfortunately he's wrong about Agincourt. It's literally the exception to the rule he talked about, because Henry V ordered the exhausted, defeated French knights massacred when he was worried he might lose the battle, in a violation of the customs of the time where normally captured knights would be ransomed.

@RustyPetterson

3 жыл бұрын

He also used the word "British". He should've said "English".

@ellieadele3769

3 жыл бұрын

Also he's completely ignoring what happened to all the common soldiers in virtually every medieval battle.

@valyriantime910

3 жыл бұрын

I'm not an expert in warfare, nor a historian, but Fitz is not in a debate or writing an essay for which he expects to be graded. The man's trying to make a point, and in this case it's pretty human to make generalizations and take shortcuts. Everybody does that in normal conversation. No one always says things which are 100% correct. So it's realistic to quote and example that only partially applies. Plus, the battle he mentions is indeed that: an example. Not his point! His point is he has to kill an enemy he has spotted, and ( his arguments) the laws that prevent him from doing so are not only outdated but totally ignored by the other side.

@ellieadele3769

3 жыл бұрын

@@valyriantime910 personally I wouldn't even consider believing anything argued if the facts used to bolster the argument are wrong. Unless I know the source and already trust them pretty strongly (in which case I'll probably give them a little grace that their argument might still be valid). But otherwise if you can't get the easy stuff like facts right why would I trust you on the hard stuff like logic, morality, and critical thinking?

@ellieadele3769

3 жыл бұрын

FYI I haven't seen the show, but I almost certainly agree with what Fitz is arguing for as well. But if I did need convincing his method would have been very ineffective.

one of the best scene of the entire series

Spencer was always good ,but Amos killed it.

@locotx215

4 жыл бұрын

This was "steel sharpens steel" acting

Fitz was always my favorite of the side, recurring characters... "This is where you usually say something..." "Have you changed shampoos?" lol

@Tigerman1138

5 жыл бұрын

Bayougirl78 Mine was Joey Lucas.

@LFCtvUSA

4 жыл бұрын

The genius of that line is something else. Fitz is showing exactly how astute he is to what's around him to the point where he can tell when Leo has changed shampoos, one of the most minute details imaginable. This is immediately before he makes it clear how the world has changed so much that he, one of the top experts on warfare, cannot tell the difference between peacetime and wartime. The details of everything around him are so muddled he cannot tell anymore, yet he can tell, based on appearance, that Leo changed shampoos. Goes to his point how fucked up the world stage looked to him at that time. And if it looks fucked up to Fitz twenty years ago, how fucked up must it look now to people in his position?

@johnmcgowan2348

4 жыл бұрын

Beat that with a stick.

Fellow East Orange, NJ native John Amos. Terrific actor

I've watched this clip dozens of times and it doesn't get old for me.

What acting is all about. It pull you into the screen and makes you forget everything around you

@keyboarddancers7751

7 жыл бұрын

I can't remember how many times I've replayed this scene.

@kulu3850

2 жыл бұрын

All of us are in the Situation Room during this scene, clearer than seeing it on IMAX.

Two amazing actors; one amazing scene.

John Amos was a terrific actor.

@glenmarshall5172

9 жыл бұрын

pac401 Is not was, he is still alive and acting.

@pac401

9 жыл бұрын

G-JeeSe M Correct IS not WAS.

@travmadison2000

9 жыл бұрын

pac401 IT could be was if he is referring to the performance given to the character on this show, if you already know what the said fate of that character is.

@Guitcad1

4 жыл бұрын

John Amos is/was one of those famous people who seems to keep dying over and over again. I could have sworn he was dead too. In fact, I could have sworn I remember hearing he had just died and thinking "What? I thought he died _years_ ago!" (He's still alive as of 7 Feb., 2020.)

@FrankIsAlwaysRight

4 жыл бұрын

Is

Many of the commenters seem to have forgotten that this is not a 3 minute webisode, but rather 3 minutes out of an hour-long (okay, 45-minute long) episode in a series where this specific plotline had negative ramifications that drove future storylines. I don't think it can be claimed that the assassination discussed in this clip was handled without sufficient gravitas ... and that certainly cannot be claimed by anyone who hasn't watched at least the whole episode.

@TBro278

6 жыл бұрын

You took all that time to say, what exactly?

@TBro278

5 жыл бұрын

Cindy Tartt drivel? Duly noted.. thank you for setting me straight and being Lord of the comments section

@calilyricist24

5 жыл бұрын

@@TBro278 nah, I can second the person that suggested you were a dunce. It's clear what he wrote. It's also not speaking. You don't have to ask him to repeat it, just read the thing over again. Jesus Christ.

@cpf6125

4 жыл бұрын

He took the time to (correctly) say this scene is not the end of this episodes depiction of assassionation and the consequences.

@shaneturner500

4 жыл бұрын

The whole thing started because Abdul Shareef attempted to bomb locations in America, particularly the Golden Gate Bridge. However, the ambiguity lay in the evidence sources and the lack of ability to bring Shareef to a court of justice, physically or legally. Can you imagine if we put Osama Bin Laden on trial instead of killing him in a covert mission? It took more than a year for the US's role in assassinating Shareef to be uncovered, during a time when president Bartlett could not function because his daughter was kidnapped, so the Republican Speaker of the House, Glenn Walker, has to take charge. At that time, Walker defended the assassination. "We live in the real world. Our moral values only work if we all abide by the same rules."

The look of discomfort on Leo’s face before he says he doesn’t like where.the condos going.. just perfect acting.

@kulu3850

2 жыл бұрын

Spencer was the ultimate facial expression master of an actor. WIll never forget how he delivered the Zoey kidnapping news to the President...

One of the very best scenes in one of the greatest series in TV history. Johns Amos & Spencer were magnificent.

One thing that is amazing about this scene is that there is a whole 30 seconds of silence from the start of the vid. 10 seconds are just establishing that Leo and Fitz are alone, and the remainder 20 seconds are of just Leo and Fitz' current state of mind

John Amos has always had an immense screen presence. Boss!

I miss this show a lot...Great actors..

@SepticPeg

4 жыл бұрын

Best purchase I ever got was The West Wing boxset, so much stuff still relevant in 2019

This hits a little closer to home after the attack on Israel on October 7th

@play030

8 ай бұрын

He describes the country of Israel perfectly. This genocide needs to stop.

@Rambam1776

7 ай бұрын

@@play030 you have utterly missed the point.

@kenle2

18 күн бұрын

@@Rambam1776 Someone has.

@Rambam1776

18 күн бұрын

@@kenle2 try actually studying instead of watching KZread.

One of the best scenes in this series.

Wow. That is incredibly powerful. Powerful ideas, and John Amos brings it!

This is one of the six or seven greatest scenes in the whole series, knock-your-socks-off kind of scene. John Amos is such a great actor, and so was Jon Spencer.

@kulu3850

2 жыл бұрын

100%

Fitzgerald was a fantastic character. One of the few TV characters whose death actually made me sad.

He knew Hamas was coming.

out of all 7 seasons this is absolutely the best scene of them all. I just keep coming back to it because its just phenomenal, and it's carried by a guest star, only slightly recurring at best! Like I don't love this show as much as most, I personally think there are plenty better but this scene is just gorgeous.

"And if a soldier laid down his arms, he was treated humanely." Hardly. If he was a wealthy lord that could be ransomed yes he would be taken prisoner and his family would be forced to nearly bankrupt themselves to see him set free. A common soldier? More often than not he was killed, looted for anything of value, and then his corpse was left to rot or, if he was lucky, end up in a mass grave. A man like Fitswallace would know this. There is a dangerous notion that exists today that warfare can be humane. There are measures that can be taken, but war is meant to be terrible. It is meant to be such a nightmare that eventually one side can no longer take it and either surrenders or dies. "It is well that war is so terrible - otherwise we would grow too fond of it." - Robert E. Lee

@levalpat

8 жыл бұрын

+Murphy82nd have to agree.... doubt those who laid down their arms were treated humanely in the middle ages... unless you were worthy of getting a big ransom for sale back to the enemy.... the French sometimes cut the finger off the british archers........ that being said... this west wing scenee, or should I say all scenes are magnificent..... writing, casting, acting is superb.....

@MikeBenko

8 жыл бұрын

+Murphy82nd In the Late Middle Ages (100 Years War era) you could negotiate terms. Negotiating terms meant that an army could withdraw from the field if certain conditions were met. This held in case when one force was unable to utterly obliterate another. Fielding an army was an expensive affair, just as it is today. Commanders weren't fond of losing them. Also a retreating army could still cause significant damage. So pursues were rarely more than an effort to maintain pressure and force the retreating army to stay on the move to prevent a rally. After the Battle of Agincourt Henry had the French prisoners, or at least most of them killed. This for two reasons, one the prisoners outnumbered their captors, which meant there was a serious risk they would turn on him, two, there was a large French reserve standing by and Henry wanted to frighten them to prevent them from giving battle. In this he succeeded. Regardless this was a fairly nefarious incident for the time, as Henry's own knights refused to participate in the killings, considering them distasteful and while nobody criticized the strategical decision, not even the French, it was still a shocking and very unusual event. The English still left the battle with over 1500 French prisoners, only part of them actual nobleman.

@mckenzie.latham91

8 жыл бұрын

***** Soldiers do very little to protect me from any of those, not even the police really protect you from those people. But let's actually look into that... "But those who pass that test become a kind of secret weapon for an army: merciless fighters whose self-preservation skills and ability to kill without remorse can be consciously utilized by their superiors." You might find the idea of using such "humans" an asset, as i see it there is no distinguishing these people from the SS who ran the death camps, the Chimera rouge who seeded the Cambodian killing fields, or the Hutu's who hacked apart their neighbors and their children in Rwanda, the only thing that makes these people any different is the uniform and nationality... If you asked them to murder and torture they would, you ask them to hack apart children, they would, and they owuld see no issue with it. I do not consider that either confronting or reassuring. "They are natural leaders who will motivate other soldiers to kill. They are also fiercely competitive and will aggressively pursue victory." -US Army Major David S. Pierson on "natural killers"" "He describes high-functioning psychopaths as bringing "obvious advantages to a unit. They will personally kill the enemy in droves. They are natural leaders who will motivate other soldiers to kill. They are also fiercely competitive and will aggressively pursue victory." According to Pierson, these individuals generally gravitate toward infantry, armor [tanks], and, above all, special operations units. He advises officers to keep an eye out for them so their skills can be well-positioned and utilized." See the military likes it for that very reason, they can kill, get others to kill, and we don't have to worry about silly things like morality, ethics and or humanity, since they lack all of that...and that is the best soldier the one who doesn't ask why they should the pull the trigger but how long they can go before they have to stop. ""I was actually court-martialed in 2010, but I didn't get kicked out." Chris says. "I have no idea how I got so lucky, but I was drinking in Thailand and stabbed two of my friends. We were arguing, someone pulled a knife, and it got pretty bloody. I didn't feel bad about it. I don't think I ever told them I was sorry. One of them almost died. He had arterial bleeding. "I got court-martialed, lost one rank, and spent fifteen days in the brig," he adds with a hint of pride. "They originally tried to get me for attempted murder, but I had a good military lawyer, and he got it down to assault and battery." i feel so safe. see the problem with this is, the reason these people don't suffer from ptsd, or care is because they do not have it in them, they are incapable of caring, some of them don;t commit crimes because they approach everything with thought and logic, but they couldn't care less, whether it be enemy soldiers, their own mainly and or you or i on the street, if they wanted to, decided to and or had to they would kill all of us without question, feeling or care... these might make good soldiers, they do not make great human beings. There is no difference between half of the soldiers in that article and amon goeth, Ted bundy etc. the only difference is their focuses, motivations and of course side. The only good thing about war is we can shove these people there, use them and then hope they catch a bullet and or stay there, rather than have them in the general population.

@mckenzie.latham91

8 жыл бұрын

Again the only use these people have is their ability to not let things like humanity affect them, and yes quite alarmingly these people can do quite a lot and get done quite a lot in many fields... but that doesn't make them human, they are incapable of emotion, of genuine empathy or caring thought, they don't feel remorse, heck some of them feel nothing at all, complete emotional shut out... 4% of the population has this kind of condition in varying degrees, i find it funny how we seem to tolerate these people and yet go after the mentally ill, and or molesters, well these people are just as much something to look out for as well. I don't think it's a coincidence that the field that seemingly actively searches for these kind of people is the one that involves killing.

@huntercook6605

7 жыл бұрын

Season 3, Episode 6, aptly titled "War Crimes" Transcript: www.westwingtranscripts.com/search.php?flag=getTranscript&id=50 The guy talking to Leo had been the forward air commander in the operation in Vietnam. It's an impressive scene. And more than that, it's worth watching, then reading the transcript, then watching again. Because it takes a bit of repetition from different angles to follow how they're really working the idea that individuals can't comprehend the "crimes" they're involved in while they're happening. Which is really the guy's point: hey Leo, you didn't even know you're a "war criminal" according to this (eh, fictional) treaty. With this new information, do we the viewers consider him a war criminal? Well, it's open to quite a bit of interpretation, which is totally the point of the framing. And that's really awesome TV.

One of my favorites scenes from The West Wing. A combination of Aaron Sorkin's fantastic writing, John Amos WAS Fitzwallace and John Spencer was effortlessly incredible as always.

The way this scene builds is amazing.

The writing and acting in this series was always top notch. Loved John Amos as Fitz.

"Targeting a single person was unhead of" The Romans would argue otherwise.

@nelauren

4 жыл бұрын

faolan1686 Watch the scene again. Fitz notes when current international laws had their root.

@faolan1686

4 жыл бұрын

@@nelauren. I know. But Leo says "it's been that way since the Romans."

@michaelwoods2672

4 жыл бұрын

@@nelauren It's nonsense anyway, any French solider who had a half decent shot at taking down Henry V would have done. Also, the USA did not win World War Two by the combination of assassination and precision strikes required. Instead they ground down the Japanese through a merciless (but necessary) campaign of strategic bombing which included the use of atomic weapons. All this history in this scene seems to have been made up by the writer as they went along.

@cpf6125

4 жыл бұрын

It is absolute nonsense you are right. Even the thing about heralds. Yes, they existed, mainly as messengers and organisers. And they could technically decide the results of battles but I am yet to come across an example of an undecided battle that heralds adjudicated on. Battles are (obviously) decided by either casualties or possession of the ground. Their role was diplomatic and ceremonial - not as referees to war like this scene tries to suggest. As others have mentioned the english slaughtered the prisoners and I wouldnot like to rely on throwing my weapon down relying on the mercy of the adrenaline fuelled blood crazed man opposite me to accept my surrender in the middle of a chaotic battlefield ... the romanticised view of middle ages warfare is ridiculous. Examples of civilian populations being allowed to leave cities unharmed (eg; saladin ... Once) are praised precisely because they were a rare deviation from raping, robbing and killing all inside. War is war, people can be cunts. Always been that way, always will.

This was one of the best scenes on The West Wing. John Amos was amazing!

One of the very best scenes in one of television's very best series.

John Amos acting talent is just slept on! The guy is an outstanding actor!

FitzWallace is making the mistake of portraying Agincourt as a humane battle where everyone behaved with chivalry and gallantry. What really happened was that the English peasant archers filled the flower of French aristocracy full of arrows, filled a lot of French peasant soldiers with arrows too, and then walked through the killing ground finishing off the dying with little knives, axes and clubs so that they could loot the corpses. It was slaughter on a scale the world had rarely seen. And actually one couldn't usually tell when it was peacetime and wartime because all the European nations were continuously fighting on-off wars with each other, getting everyone else involved and changing sides every other week. There was never a period of the Middle Ages where one could be certain of whether your country was at peace or at war.

@RedcoatT

9 жыл бұрын

Agincourt was a battle fought during the Hundred Year war, which actually lasted 117 years, though there were many periods of inactivity. There were no official rules of war, the only people protected were people rich enough to ransom if captured, anyone else would be killed out of hand. Also armies went through the countryside looting and burning, killing and raping anyone they came across.

@theresechristiansen9769

9 жыл бұрын

Matt Dean Shit I thought that was Game of Thrones!

@koobd

8 жыл бұрын

+Fake Name A minor slaughter, the Mongols slew many more people. Many, many more. The Romns had battles that dwarf Agincourt, as did the Japanese or even the Chinese.

@DAngelo136

8 жыл бұрын

But compare it to today; civilians are fair targets; cities are firebombed; leaders assassinated by drone or sniper. Asymmetrical warfare is the order of the day. And have I mentioned, germ warfare? The soldier of Agincourt, of Hattin, hell, even of Culloden, wouldn't recognize the battlefield "rules" of today. Even as the Geneva conventions are merely winked at now. "Progress" we call it.

@andrewmcdowell5637

8 жыл бұрын

+DAngelo136 Compare to yesteryear where for example where gauls, franks vandals and goths would constantly raid roman's when their back was turned or vikings against basically anyone. What about the English against the Irish, Scottish, French, Africans, Australians, Indians (Basically anyone cos the English are just kinda (historically speaking) awful people in general). What about siege warfare. Or when a city is taken by mongols or romans or basically anyone throughout history and they just decided. Well lets just kill everyone then. The Mongols reportedly left the ground around the citys they had taken slippery with grease from all the rotting bodies with mountains of bones. Germ warfare. What about the use of rotten corpses flung into besieged cities to kill populations. What about the Assyrians poisoning wells. The use of smallpox against native Americans (Although that one is debated). Killing people isn't a new concept. Part of the reason the Geneva Convention exists is that people started to realize that post ww1 and ww2 we got real good at killing people and we had come up with all sorts of creative ways to do it. But thats only part of it because if you look back at the mongols the population of China before Genghis Khan was about 120 million according to a census whereas after about 20 years census data put the population at abouts 60 million. Sure alot of that was people fleeing the Mongols but a very significant portion of that was the reason they fled. No one really can give an accurate answer on how many died but suffice to say it was allot. I think alot of what caused the geneva convention was the same sort of thing that caused the backlash for the veitnam war. It was the start of the spread of information about the war. Even with the culture of silence that existed with the troups of ww1 and ww2 peope where able to see what was actually happening for the first time. Everything that ive written above seems pretty horrific but its really different if you see a picture of it. Even more so if you see a picture of it and know that somewhere in the sea of red is your father/husband/brother/son etc (Not sometimes all 4). The main thing is that its complicated and more nuanced than just. well it wasn't like that back then. Cos i guarantee if Charlemagne or Julius or Countless others had have had machine guns war wouldn't look to much different than it does today. Might have looked worse.

For those comparing the assassination of Sulemani with this storyline, there is one big difference. The person they were going to kill in the West Wing, Shareef, was not only a family member of the royal family of Qumar (fictionial country), he was also a minister of country who the US considers an ally. (In the show, Qumar is an ally of the United States)

@Connor8609

Жыл бұрын

this would be more comparable to the United States assassinating someone in MBS' royal family after a trip to DC

I've known John Amos since 1964, Colorado State University, Edwards Hall, " The Amos Hour". --------------A class act------a decent guy-------with looks & charisma off the chart--------THAT was Johnny Amos, 1964. ---------Honored to say, I was a friend. He used to call me " Surfin Mike". He knew that in addition to loving The Temptations, & Motown, I also loved The Beach Boys. -------------------------------------Wolfsky9

@seanfitzpatrick4730

5 жыл бұрын

He's always been one of my heroes I love John Amos strong presence good man fabulous actor I wish he would have done more roles in Motion Pictures lead roles he's awesome love the man

And today it is 80 years since Yamamoto was killed.

Interesting that he brings up the Battle of Agincourt as an example of how "if a soldier laid down his arms he was treated humanely." In fact, at Agincourt, when it seemed like the French army might break through to the English rear area, the English King Henry V ordered the slaughter of some 2,000 prisoners because he feared they might overpower their guards and join in the French attack. His nobles were reluctant to carry out the order, not because of some code of conduct but because they would lose the ransoms they would have been paid for live prisoners. Henry had to order his archers to carry out the executions since, as commoners, they had no right to collect ransoms anyway and so had no qualms about butchering prisoners in cold blood. (The story that the executions were in retaliation for the French killing the boys in the baggage train was pure spin created by Shakespeare to justify what was clearly a very un-chivalrous act.)

@path8135

3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing, not a great example.

@Phineas1626

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, Henry V was the one that Timotheé Chalumet played? Because that guy didn’t seem noble at all. Struck me as the sort of guy who would execute the cook if his mutton was overcooked.

LOL Bad example, at the battle of agincourt King Henry slaughtered several thousand French prisoners only keeping the ones that could be ransomed for a high value :D

@hoplite669

7 жыл бұрын

true

@asktuv

7 жыл бұрын

Wyn Williams don't let the truth get in the way of a great scene!

@Troublesome2008

7 жыл бұрын

It's an American show... XD

@wynwilliams6977

7 жыл бұрын

Troublesome2008 you would think they would take a second to look it up :D or maybe they did it as a joke considering he references the exact opposite of what he means

@Kilrayen

7 жыл бұрын

He slaughtered several thousand of them solely because the number of French prisoners outnumbered his surviving army, and there were a lot of weapons strewn on the battlefield which means there could have been a riot and he may have lost. Furthermore, there were a lot of french militia waiting on the other side, they could have assisted them and Henry may have lost. That's why he slaughtered them, and after that the French fled and the nobles were ransomed.

The first four seasons of this series, may very well be the greatest of any television show, ever. At the very least...The West Wing is way up the list. This scene, is one of the (many) reasons why. Brilliant.

Welcome to the Hall of Famous World Class Cinematic Scenes.

“the laws of nature don’t even apply......”. That was gold!

I love TWW and I never saw this episode but found it funny (strange) since my Father was one of the top WWII language Officers that translated and helped plan the shooting down of Yamamoto's plane. I remember him telling me about it once in just such a conversation between us like this one. It was a matter-of-fact sort of recitation and his answer was "we were at war." I never got the chance to have a conversation with him about current considerations of war but it seems that all the "rules" have changed and more and more extreme cases of "guerrilla warfare" are the new rules of the game.

@nicksambides2628

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your father's service.

@superbmediacontentcreator

Жыл бұрын

@@nicksambides2628 I wish he had been the type to have told me about things but he was like so many of that generation who internalized it all. Generally, the lower on the totem pole the more that had stories to tell. The higher-ups just saw things as duty, honor politics, and a job to be done.

@nicksambides2628

Жыл бұрын

@@superbmediacontentcreator I don't doubt it. My Uncle John served during the war in the same photographic unit as did William Wyler and John Huston, though he never met either. (He ended up with Wyler's foot locker.) He was the same way.

@superbmediacontentcreator

Жыл бұрын

@@nicksambides2628 They saw a lot of things that normal civilized people should just not see.

I need to rewatch this show. It’s been way too long. Great writing, acting, directing, cinematography, all of it

Might be one of the best scenes of television I've ever seen.

Killing off of Fitzwallace was a terrible decision. The character would have been a much better VP pick for Matt Santos.

@Wadey1212

3 жыл бұрын

I think there was always an unwritten acceptance that Fitz was a Republican?

@keitht24

3 жыл бұрын

@@Wadey1212 You think he was meant to be a fictionalized version of Colin Powell? I heard Senator Vinnick was a fictionalized version of John McCain.

@duncangilpatric987

3 жыл бұрын

@@Wadey1212 they talk about that in the episode where they consider replacing Hoynes. They mention Eisenhower and Grant as examples. I agree that Fitz would've been a good VP pick, but that was after Sorkin left. Also, the actor might have wanted to be done.

Yamamoto donned an uniform demonstrating unquestionable allegiance to the IJN. He was no different from any soldier, airman, or sailor of the IJN. He was fair game. Much like a sniper prioritizing higher value targets that have the most impact to a battlefield, a submarine sinking the most prized ship in a convoy, or the field grade leadership losing their lives to an ambush. I don’t care how many decorations you have on your uniform. You are fair game in war if you are military or paramilitary. Especially terrorists organized in a military fashion.

One of my all-time favorite scenes on The West Wing - God, I miss this show!!

I must have watched this a dozen times already but I come back for more like an addict. It is about as good as American tv drama writing/acting gets. Shivers up my spin.

Huge, serious men talking about serious business.

“We measure a mission’s success by two things: _Was it successful. . . “_ Well that’s not circular, is it?

@subboid

3 жыл бұрын

Measuring success is different to saying whether it was successful or not. You could win but lose all but one dude and it would be a success, but it would be a disaster when measuring the cost

The acting of both gentlemen. WOW!

"I can't tell when it's peacetime and wartime anymore,." It's as if that line was written now. And delivered with amazing delivery by John Amos. What a show!

He brings up the battle of agincourt and men who surrendered being treated fairly, ignoring the fact that the British slaughtered French prisoners in that battle.

BTW, at Agincourt Henry V ordered his men to execute the prisoners of war.

@gudmundursteinar

4 жыл бұрын

Also, when William Pitt t.y. was PM Napoleon had the Duc de Enghien targeted and murdered. Napoleon did this in response to a royalist attempt to murder him iirc.

@danlorett2184

4 жыл бұрын

To be fair to Henry V, even before the battle the English were completely out of supplies and starting to starve - the French cut their supply lines and stood in the path of their retreat. Henry V simply did not have the numbers nor the supplies to manage that many prisoners.

@mikeggg5671

4 жыл бұрын

no he did not.

@danlorett2184

4 жыл бұрын

@@mikeggg5671 He did actually. They took more prisoners than they had men and there was still half of the French army chasing them.

I love this scene. I watch this video over and over.

In this scene , it isn't just his acting that gets your blood up. It's the truth and the candor he inflects in to it with his acting also.

This scene chokes me up...powerful acting...superb writing... but damn if this man is not right...and the fact that I know AND understand what he is saying....."I will do horrible things to protect the folks I love." Simple. Necessary. Real. This is why I choke up on this scene.

an amazing scene, i just wish he wouldnt have called himself a soldier. No sailor would do such a thing. very powerful nonetheless

It's not easy to put John Spencer in the shade, John has such gravitas in his role as Leo McGarry. In this scene John Amos does standing on his head. What a performance he delivered in this series as Fitzwallace. Big props

I miss John Spencer and Leo. I wish he had been around long enough for the last few episodes.