I really cannot see how Christianity will survive unless it turns back to the mystical.

@jennysteves

Жыл бұрын

Yes. Thank you!

@WhiteStoneName

Жыл бұрын

It won’t. “The Christian of the future will be a mystic or not at all.” - Karl Rahner

@kristijohansen5874

Жыл бұрын

What a beautiful and fantastic conversation. Thankyou both.

@oliviergoethals4137

Жыл бұрын

True, we need to integrate the cloud of forgetting so the cloud of unknowing and the unity behind it's surface can be experienced.

@m.filmtrip

Жыл бұрын

Orthodox Christianity never lost the mystical

Re: men with chests and Christianity not being merely a “head religion”. People sleep on Lewis’s space trilogy, particularly That Hideous Strength. Most like and read Perelandra…and yes, it’s wonderful. But Lewis is saying marvelous things in those books. And That Hideous Strength is basically a lock-step novel about our current world situation.

I love you guys. I remember Lewis writing in one of his essays that if God is real, he is Real - he's not a nebulous, vapid, spiritual breath, he's more solid, more real and WE are the insubstantial ones. Thank you for this wonderful and fascinating discussion - conversation.

@tb9k_

Жыл бұрын

I need to know what essay this is from.

So glad I found your channel, Mark! I've been binging on it. Regarding the Creed, I just want to point out that its "simplicity" hides its radically profound and mystical declaration. If read slowly enough, and with enough harkenig back to all the mysteries the Holy Spirit has divulged to us as Christians, one can--each time the Creed is said--use it (like a prayer) to catapult immediately back to stated of mysticism instantaneously ☦️

May the apologists (rationalist/objectivists) decrease, And the mystics increase. 🙏🏼

@Michael-sc2gj

Жыл бұрын

Hi Luke. You Ware all over this Video. Are you planning to discuss it on BoM ?

Good dialogue, excellent insights, thank you!

Thanks and well done for an excellent discussion. It felt like an Inkling Participation!

14:13 re: parables Peter Rollins gets this. Terrence Malick gets this. Again, Suzanna Clarke. Eugene Vodolazkin - Laurus. George MacDonald - Lilith. It’s about a change in consciousness, not a mere change in ideas.

Take a look @ the Mahayana Buddhist BODHISATTVA tradition. It's where, hopefully, things will become clearer.

Excellent - Thanks so much for this exceptional discussion, Mark!

I appreciate the grounded enthusiasm...Thanks:)

Wow, I'm feasting on this rich dialog and yearning for a Christianity which lies in humble awe of the majesty of GOD. Have to buy your book. Thank you both

Absolutely loved this conversation and its capacity to further push this evolving awareness and understanding of the numinous as illumination to life's meaning and purpose, and, how much more we have to learn about the embodiment of this concept with our historically sapien praxis of religio. Thank you to you both.

Wonderful conversation - thank you both so much.

22:39 Susana Clarke did this for Barfield with Piranesi.

@WhiteStoneName

Жыл бұрын

Haven’t even watched yet, and I agree with this comment.

@notvadersson

Жыл бұрын

@@WhiteStoneName lol

@PlatosPodcasts

Жыл бұрын

Yes!

3:30 “for this slight, momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory which is beyond all comparison.” - St. Paul

Love what you said about the James Webb Telescope pictures Mark.

I kept wondering, especially at the beginning of the conversation, if Russel Holban's "Riddley Walker" was going to come up in the conversation. Really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks.

What an absolutely awesome conversation.

Wonderful post!!!!

Great stuff - thank you!

20:21 wow - human beings are on the periphery of reality, and invited in.

Great discussion

Have you two gentlemen come across or at least read about the life of the great Catholic saints like St Padre Pio? He actually and powerfully lived what you are trying so hard and perhaps so laboriously trying to convey, the numinous weirdness of Christianity? Can you imagine living with five bleeding stigmata for fifty years only for them to disappear at the moment of death? The Inklings conveyed just that, inklings of these mystical depths, but for the real and powerful reality you have to go to the Saints.

Wonderful.

We observe the image of the Grand Canyon on a postcard in our minds while standing before its limitless unimaginable grandeur.

Mark thank you for your work, thank you both for your commitment to the Christian tradition - I think many of us instinctively know there is something very special that history has gifted us in Christ even though the modern world has made us so impatient with its' inherently illusive nature to our grasping minds. I have been lately to a non denominational Christian group inspired by the likes of John Crowder and Baxter Kruger who have done much to try to rediscover the wildness of the Christian vision. When I am with them I have felt a certain giddiness and a kind of sensation of weight like being happily submerged in the spirit and your comments on Lewis's 'weight of glory ' brought this to mind. Hopefully this is the confirmation that I am on the right track 👍. Please consider reaching out to John and Baxter it may be of benefit to both sides.

Thanks for a wonderful conversation. I think what Barfield talked about in theory Lewis, Tolkien, and other Inklings illustrated mythically. There are glimpses of final participation, I think, in Shasta's encounter with Aslan on the misty road, in the description of Lothlorien, in Elvish art and Tom Bombadils stronger songs.

The answer to all you are talking about: EASTERN ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY!+!+!+

amen, Barfield is much more abstract and difficult. Lewis is more concrete. And he’s saying all the gold of Barfield in his space trilogy. Imo.

@WhiteStoneName

Жыл бұрын

@@Owen_Barfield I definitely agree that our times are moving us closer to understanding. Thanks for the link. Your grandfather has been incredibly helpful to me in understanding the world and myself and *trying* to communicate that to other people. God bless. 🤗

This absolutely resonates, but only if all can be considered ‘Christian’ by default - sentient beings and earth elements, all .. universal wholeness and resurrection.

22:30 Does anyone know the name of the book Jason mentions by “Ségur Unsaid”?

@nightspore4850

Жыл бұрын

Sigrid Unset “Kristin Lavrensdotter”. I might be mis remembering the spelling but it’s close.

@foreverrip

Жыл бұрын

@@nightspore4850 THANK YOU 🙏🏽

Hecks yes! Around 18 - 19 minute mark: Methodological naturalism becomes ontological naturalism

This was wonderful, thanks. I have never read Lewis or Barfield. Where to begin?

@PlatosPodcasts

Жыл бұрын

With Barfield, his talks published in this book are a good intro www.owenbarfield.org/selected-books/speakers-meaning/

@michaelmartinserafin2029

Жыл бұрын

Thanks, Mr. Vernon!

@johnstewart7025

Жыл бұрын

As a scifi fan, I started with his trilogy. It has a religious theme. But that took me to his apologetics.

@michaelmartinserafin2029

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Mr. Stewart!

How do I / we instruct, teach, help the younger people with whom we share our lives? I have two "children" of 30 and 27, they have both been slightly inoculated to Christianity. Fortunately both are hungry for meaning, In what direction do we point them? What engaging books are available to the less life-experienced ones?

@PlatosPodcasts

Жыл бұрын

Maybe go on a pilgrimage or daytrips to holy wells - something to show rather than tell.

@caracopland710

Жыл бұрын

Carl Jung’s Red Book ✌🏻🧡🔥🌈🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

A shame about the adverts... 🤔

When people talk about enchantment, faries, medievalism, and symbolism, it is an invitation to all those - usually Protestant "dungeons and dragons" converts to Eastern Orthodoxy. These can often invite a neo-gnostoicism, a reactionary antiplatonism that has nothing to do with the fullness of the faith.

I think these two need to write a book: Lewis and Barfield for Dummies.

What was the novel Jason spoke about, in which a medieval sensibility or original participation is attempted?

@MrHwaynefair

Жыл бұрын

not sure if this is what you are referring to around 15:35 - where he says "Thomas Hardy's peasants" See (for example) Thomas Hardy's 1891 novel Tess of the d'Urbervilles.

@MrHwaynefair

Жыл бұрын

sorry - just one more at 23:10 - an unnamed book by Sigrid Undset - but I think the book is "Kristin Lavransdatter".

@Rob1955B

Жыл бұрын

@@MrHwaynefair Thank you for your trouble, I am very grateful

Rudolf Steiner pointed out the Christianity we have now -- Jesus is the simple rabbi from Nazareth that preached love , and they put him on the level with Buda and Mohamad ---- meanwhile the reality is --- HE IS GOD INCARNATE --Huge difference. What does this mean -- God incarnate. What does John mean by the word. You can go to a Roman Catholic Mass for entire life and you have NO UNDERSTANDING of what the Gospels in reality mean. Steiner called it a world of Empty Phrases. You couldn't describe what we are currently living through any better. The reality we are living is completely different than what we are told we are living. Steiner was Orwell before Orwell --- Orwellian --“And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed-if all records told the same tale-then the lie passed into history and became truth."

I'm sorry but I find Jason very difficult to listen to. It's not his ideas it's the vocabulary and delivery of these

Christianity is hypocritical and boring, not 'weird'.