What a time to be living in when we can watch and learn from these kinds of debates. Life doesn't get much better.

@MrTravelWriter

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, JP's praiseful statements about Hitler are always a hit with his mindkess cult followers.

@christopher_ecclestone

Жыл бұрын

@@MrTravelWriter Please can you elaborate? I've seen and heard a lot of what Jordan Peterson has said, and I've only ever heard him speak against Ideologies, and extremes of both sides so to speak. If you genuinely think that, then I'd argue that you're mistaken, but If you have an example, I'd like to hear it. Is it something you've heard him say, or something you've been told he said?

@MCsorlotron

Жыл бұрын

@@MrTravelWriter fool your the one in a bucket

@mvaughango

Ай бұрын

@@MrTravelWriter What a vapid and baiting statement.. How better to illustrate the cretinous suppositions about this dialogue of brilliance and thoughtfulness by an obvious racist in you… quit projecting what you very well know is an indefensible stance and the war you are waging on the greatest civilization in history.. particularly the United States and the revolutionary cultural developments coupled with its constitution which has created more freedom for all ethnicities, sexes and classes of peoples than any in history by light years… You R the problem

Very interesting! There are no substitutes for truth and having a spine!

I love listening to these two great men 👏

I don’t profess to be an intellectual but I understand Douglas Murray very clearly whereas I struggle to understand Jordan Peterson sometimes as he talks clinical psychologist language.

@stevesalt2921

Жыл бұрын

Douglas is a master communicator and he distils topics down to their fundamentals using plain language. You'll find this habit in the best teachers.

@mvs9122

Жыл бұрын

JP uses long sentences and connects several sentences. It helps if you can break his sentences down into smaller ones.

Oh my goodness what a GIFT. Dr. Peterson and Douglas Murray in conversation!

“If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?” - Anton Chigurh (No Country for Old Men)

NEVER apologize if you are not wrong, and/or don't really mean it.

My absolute favourite intellectuals in the West today!

@graham6132

Жыл бұрын

One is an intellectual, the other writes self-help books and cries a lot . . .

@jsvoable

Жыл бұрын

@@graham6132 If more intellectuals did those things, maybe we wouldn't be in this present mess. Now go clean your room.

@nevbarnes1034

Жыл бұрын

@@graham6132 ...And has helped tens of thousands of people find direction and profound meaning in their lives. Let us know when you've achieved 0.1% of that.

@theinternetking2887

Жыл бұрын

@@nevbarnes1034 And therefore, you cannot criticize him? He also claims Russia is part of the West without having checks and balances or claims Ukraine is at the Caspian Sea...

@nevbarnes1034

Жыл бұрын

@@theinternetking2887 Sure you can criticise him. Just do it fairly. Your depiction was a caricature.

Please talk about the gradual decline and near elimination of history education in schools

@nancybartley4610

Жыл бұрын

Tell us what you know about this. please.

@JackTorrance333

Жыл бұрын

People with no history are easy to manipulate. No roots on a tree………

@TTFN55

Ай бұрын

History, English grammar and Civics have been being eroded since the inception of the U.S. Dept. of Education was established which is really just an incubator for teachers' unions.

Very enjoyable.

love it

Excellent discussion. JP hardly interrupted DM's train of thought at all, and he was most attentive to the "rules" of polite conversation. I don't believe that I've ever heard DM and JP more in agreement than they were here. I was with them all the way. I'm not afraid of speaking up, but Idk what I'd do if confronted by a group of thuggish-looking men grabbing someone off the sidewalk, with the victim screaming. There's always the possibility/probability that the offenders are armed, and unless it's a verbal confrontation I'm a physical coward. All my power is in my speech. I might try to get others involved, but if there were no others around I'd probably just take pictures of all the people, the car, and the license plate, then leave the scene as surreptitiously as possible and call 9-1-1.

This is great! thank you.

Peterson and Murray are profoundly noble.

tearing the omni and present apart.

V. interesting, what Piaget identified as the messianic stage of late adolescence. It can lead to good changes, but it's also what was taken advantage of to create the Red Guards, and now the Woke Guards.

Voltaire's statue was being cleaned and later put back on its place, as far as I can find out. I will check Wednesday when I visit the place..

The law of unintended consequences

you know it's gonna be good if Prof Ioannidis is there to listen

Love JP more every day. ♥️

Are we also looking at Frances Widdowson who was banned from speaking at educational institutions and had her tenure taken away at Mount Royal university.

What language, what content, what context!

heres a question? how realistic is it that we can talk our way out of this, or will it come down to politics by other means?

The host.

Truth is the only weapon you can used...to eliminate evil and The creator only protect strongest faith him...and the weak burn in hell

God is omni present they say.

Anyone else find it comical to see all of this talent packed into what looks like a high school conference room? Peter Thiel, Niall Ferguson, Steven Pinker, Gad Saad, Bjorn Lomborg, Jordan Peterson if I see correctly.

john ionidaes in the audience!!!

Douglas Moo-rye The audio tech for this is now looking for work I presume?

Best alliteration from Douglas Murray: "phonies, frauds and fakes"

All the major civilisations from around the world have died, not from murder by an outside source, but from suicide from the influences of an inner faction.

JP & Douglas are heros but I am afraid they minimize the real fear most have of speaking out..most people cant afford to lose their jobs & careers & network let alone their social network of family, neighbourhood, social groups..the cancel mob with social media can easily go after someone & falsely label & defame them & 95% of people..other than maybe a few close family & friends will simply disown them..some will do it knowingly out of fear themselves but many will simply believe the accusations..after all its one persons word against the many & powerful institutions that now control everything..acedemia, media, institutions, schools, social media, government & corporations..how do you fight that?

"Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you! And thanks to our religious law, we will dominate you." (Giuseppe Bernardini. RC Archbishop. In a discussion with a Muslim leaders during an interfaith dialogue)

33:51

Can we please bring this to Prime Ministers and Presidents; What do the G20 and ?G7 (others discuss) behind closed doors; The western world and leaders have to take back control otherwise goodbye freedom of speech; goodbye freedom. We are being pitted man against man; our culture brought into disrepute. Thank you Douglas and Jordan; I hope you have opened some eyes.

What's going on with the sound? Doesn't Peterson make enough money to hire a decent sound tech?

@iwantthe80sback59

Жыл бұрын

The Guests don’t pay for microphones or lights or venue rental or presentation tech, etc. The hosts do. The Sound Technician the Hosts ensue provided did a s*^t job. Same thing happened on the GQ Helen Lewis interview.

@ 44:40 ok so this is what grinds my gears about Peterson interpretation of scripture: He forgets all about death. Let's say that we all carry our cross, in his sense, and bare up to the suffering in the world and take responsibility and finally produce this new Edon...let's say we do all of that. Every individual will lose what we have gained at death finally and irretrievably. The whole world will go down the maw of death at some point and then the human race as a whole loses what we gained. It will all have meant nothing in the end, not even a dream will survive to tell our sad and heroic story. It will all have been for nothing. There is a great deal of poetic pathos in that conception, but it will not do. He is simply on the road to nihilism and despair.

@TheShootist

Жыл бұрын

huh? death is the final reward. you know? paradise and what not.

@47StormShadow

Жыл бұрын

@@TheShootist Only if you believe in life after death no?

If the mob comes...Start streaming "i can't breathe "

The Judeo-Christian tradition is fundamentally predicated on the pursuit of truth. That’s why throughout Judeo-Christian history everyone was able to question church teachings and pursue scientific endeavours even if they contradicted scripture . . . That’s why after Constantine made Christianity the state religion of Rome in 300, everyone was concerned with pursuing truth and huge advances in medicine, natural science and philosophy were made over the course of the next millennium . . .

@PopularDemand1000

Жыл бұрын

Great sarcasm, but you’re conflating a lot of very different things. Your examples are about religious dogma. This has nothing to do with being fundamentally predicated on the search for truth, which is a spiritual endeavor. All religious systems in the context of the evolution of human thought are fundamentally predicated on the search for truth. It doesn’t mean they ever find the truth at any given period in history. We are groping in the darkness for ways forward, but make no mistake about, it is truth we are looking for.

@nevbarnes1034

Жыл бұрын

Science did not kick off in the Christian milieu until at least the 11th century. For the first thousand years of Christianity, as far as I've been able to find, there was not a single scientist operating in the Christian sphere. This calls into question the conceit common amongst Evangelicals, that there is some fundamental congruence between Christianity and science.

@PopularDemand1000

Жыл бұрын

@@nevbarnes1034 I would hardly call anything operating in the 11th century as “science” as we know it today. I agree with your assessment but there is a difference between conscious and explicit work in science and unconscious development through nascent forms that lay the groundwork for the scientific method to come.

@graham6132

Жыл бұрын

@@PopularDemand1000 Oh, my bad, my bad. The entire history of Christianity, including the Bible itself (Paul’s interpretation of Jesus’ teachings, for ex.) has been completely wrong and only you have the correct understanding. I’ll see if I can arrange a hotline to the Pope and you can tell him that he’s not actually Christian yourself. . . 😂😂😂

@graham6132

Жыл бұрын

@@nevbarnes1034 The Arabs were the ones keeping science and mathematics alive. Christians were to busy killing each other over not even what Jesus said, but exactly how he said it.

It's amazing how JP criticizes leftist claim about west but stays on Putinan crusade against west.

@mvs9122

Жыл бұрын

There is no Putinian crusade against west, so there is nothing for him to attack. Russia is a regional power with nuclear weapons. That means, the west must pay deference to Russia's regional interests. When west didn't, we got the war in Ukraine. Russia is not and can not project power too far or against powerful states but it can project power locally and it is. Russia is not a global superpower

It sounded like Jordan Peterson was pulling "faith" down to Earth, making it a faith in science and rationality, making it the present, not the omnipresence of God.

my 2c- things are looking rather grim, we may well be done, the demographics / lack of birth rates, + old spengler, its not looking too flash.

exhibit x: stanford university has announced to the world that the word "american" is "harmful language." i think it may be too late to save the west unless something changes drastically and quickly.

The opposite of truth seeking example is Glaciers, Gender, and Science M Jackson Ted Talk and associated papers. New Discourses KZread Dec 2 reads her paper and explains the thinking behind a glaciology paper that contains no science.

This is good, but very disappointed with Stanford's work on energy systems.

Well, that was a rather abrupt ending. The host could have at least let Douglas finish his sentence.

sin has to do with faith, God, the Bible. Original sin has to do with the 10 commandments then.

These two arent really speaking with each so much as at each other. Since the University of Toronto paid his salary during his video taping class for free amd distributing them on you tube years, do they get a percentage of his income in return? For without thier platform where would he be?

Well arabs and berbers has been the greatest slaver of black people. Arab slave trade lasted 13 centuries (still today exists). Why don't they self-flagellate for this!? In Maurinania there's still a system of caste : the discendants of arabs and berbers are still master of haratin (black people). This system wasn't invented by european colonisation.

Those who just wish Jordan Peterson would ask a simple question and shut up?

@TeenywantsaHug

Жыл бұрын

its a conversation, not an interview. also, you might be wrong here if its simple questions you want.

41:30 Britain was the main buyer of cotton until the civil war. (Later on, India became a major producer of cotton for the UK.) They practically financed slavery in the American South by buying ~95% of their main product. British economic interests were aware of the fact that the slave population could sustain itself, not requiring any additional slaves being brought into the U.S. I'm not familiar with the argument, but I've read that fighting slavery was actually in line with British interests, since it prevented other powers from building up a slave population that would have been able to compete with the British - alligned systems of forced labor. Also, they really didn't care about their sailors. Those sailors in turn often practically were semi-slaves. They weren't treated as full British cititzens with all their rights. At times, young men were just fetched up around the port and forced to work on ships for extended periods of time. Not sure whether this was in this time period, but forcing foreigners to work on British ships was a thing too. Maybe we should just stick to the facts.

@tomtom21194

9 ай бұрын

If you have books or specific references for these things I would be interested

@InfoSopher

9 ай бұрын

​@@tomtom21194 Long time since I wrote this. If my memory serves me right, the first paragraph I believe referred to a note at the end of "Americana: A 400-Year History of American Capitalism". (in the annotation/reference section of the book) So you have to get the book's version with all the annotations. It's largely an interesting book anyhow. Although I found that the later sections (about more recent times) were wider known and thus at least to me less interesting. I'm not entirely sure where I read the second thing. Possibly the same book or its annotations. Among the books that I read in the months prior to writing this post that have some thematic overlap are: The Future of Freedom: Illiberal Democracy at Home and Abroad (Zakaria), Economic Facts and Fallacies (Sowell), The People vs. Democracy: Why Our Freedom Is in Danger and How to Save It (Mounk), The Color of Money: Black Banks and the Racial Wealth Gap (Baradaran). They all have their positives and negatives. The sailor thing is common knowledge. Have heard about this one quite a few times. Maybe you search for history of the British navy, or books that refer to what it was like to be in it. Also, books about US/UK conflicts from that time might refer to it, as the navy played a major role in them and often Americans were captured and forced to work on British ships back then. Here are a few more recommendations on economic history as well as economic case studies: Extreme Economies: Survival, Failure, Future - Lessons from the World’s Limits The Power Law: Venture Capital and the Making of the New Future Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller, Sr. Poor Economics: A Radical Rethinking of the Way to Fight Global Poverty Various Vaclav Smil books, e.g. on history of technology. Start-up Nation: The Story of Israel's Economic Miracle Saudi Inc. (Wald) Putinomics (Miller) A Little History of Economics (Kishtainy) Most Tim Wu books, in particular The Master Switch and The Attention Merchants. They are however more about the media business. The early Tim Marshall bestsellers. But they go more into geography / geopolitics. German and prob not available in English: Wirtschaftskriege: Geschichte und Gegenwart

I Love it but its like Peterson is the patient that thinks he runs the Asylum.

Buddy, ask questions don’t preach.

China-funded 5th column. Next question?

Half the time literally nobody has any idea what Jordan Peterson is saying, including Jordan Peterson.

Dougas, RUSSIA is part of the West too you silly man

Peterson likes to think he's an expert on Christian theology, yet I have never heard him mention once Augustine, Scotus, Ockham, Aquinas, etc . . .

@gravitheist5431

Жыл бұрын

The experts on christian theology you mention are just dogmatic theologians .Peterson seems to be focused on the bible and seems to be trying to find truth in the as yet , unexplainable " truths " of dogmatists .

@graham6132

Жыл бұрын

@@gravitheist5431 You’re right, he has very little in common with theologians like Aquinas who predicated his biblical interpretations on Aristotle. Peterson instead believes he’s uncovered secret messages in the Bible that come to him in visions, like the central message of the beatitudes is that Jesus wants you to be a “monster” In fact, given that he (a) believes that only he has uncovered the true meaning of the Bible and (b) his *followers* are almost exclusively uneducated, dispossessed, credulous young men looking for a “father figure” . . . He’s more a like a prospective cult leader. LMAO

@gravitheist5431

Жыл бұрын

@@graham6132 You know that is a dishonest representation of what he is about and what he has said , maybe I should call you " Cathy " Maybe you don't understand what he is talking about , your last paragraph describes what the church with it's dogma has done , and has acted as a cult while waving the bible around as justification for it's tyranny . Peterson has pointed to the behavioral psychological truths in the stories of the bible .

@graham6132

Жыл бұрын

@@gravitheist5431 LMAO Right. Peterson claims that every single Christian in history has been wrong about the Bible, and only he, Jordan Peterson has the true interpretation, which is cloaked in vague, mystical language that nobody can understand . . . . Nothing “culty” about that. Lol. But at least you can say Peterson is a mentally stable, serious academic. He definitely didn’t fly to Russia for experimental treatments for his benzodiazepine addiction; he definitely doesn’t promote a radical “all meat” diet that he claimed cured his eye floaters” ; he definitely didn’t claim that he “literally” saw inside DNA molecules while on LSD; he definitely doesn’t cry during 30% of his public appearances . . . LMAO.

@gravitheist5431

Жыл бұрын

@@graham6132 At least you agree christianity is a cult .Just because you don't understand the language only means it's mystical to you . The funniest or sadist thing is that he is in favour of religious pursuit . It is telling that you disregard everything he says because of a few out there comments he has made , only show you can't tell the difference between them .

Stacking strawman upon strawman on the bonfire of ignorance and ideology.

Murray just likes to hear himself talk

@graham6132

Жыл бұрын

Right. Because Peterson never rambles incoherently for minutes on end . . .

"Judeo-Christian" is an oxymoron. Christian believe that everyone is created in the image of God. Jews believe that Jews are created in the image of God, and that everyone else is a beast in human form created solely for the purpose of serving Jews. That's quite a difference.