Watching Nancy's processing through this documentary was very powerful. I am so grateful she was willing to participate and really respect the filmmakers of this documentary.

@drdyer23

11 ай бұрын

i couldn't believe the filmmakers were able to get her to do this. watching it is seeing an unprecedented angle of the whole cult thing and i was so grateful to be able to see it. made me both hate her snd alsk feel incredibly sorry for her. equally. it was uncomfortable as hell - as it should be - and i'm super grateful for it

@philosopher2king

4 ай бұрын

Same here. I thought she was an arrogant ass, but it honestly broke my heart when it dawned on her that she KNEW who Raniere was all along, what she had sacrificed for him and the sentence she'd have to do. You could see the WTF moment when she realized that she knew without realizing it. She told the story of how when Raniere's wife was sick with cancer she had soiled herself and he went to get Nancy to clean her up. But before she could go, he asked her to make him breakfast... while his wife laid in bed covered in her own feces. You could see how at that moment, Nancy knew what was happening but since Raniere acted like it was no big deal, she went along with it. By then, Nancy had effectibly given up her critical thinking away.

Rarely is a sophomore season of a doc series is as compelling as season 2 of the Vow. The shift from Mark/Sarah/Nippy to Nancy, Keith's long term victims, and those misguided inviduals that still follow him was brilliant. Nancy wanted so badly to "do good" for the world that she chose to put a blindfold to what was in front of her. I think it's going to take a lot of work for her to unravel that she wasn't this master of positive change that she thought she was.

@IntrovertedArteest

Жыл бұрын

Very well stated!!

When the NXIVM 5 approached the journalist about reporting their side of the story, I loved her deflecting to reporting on their re-entry into their post NXIVM lives; getting jobs, reestablishing family ties, etc. It's clear those folks have no intention of letting go and, quite frankly, I wouldn't hire any of them to walk my dog.

@beecharmer9522

Жыл бұрын

That was a great scene, they appeared dumbfounded! They believe so deeply in their cause and seemed to feel shocked the reporter didn’t see it the way they do and couldn’t grasp why she wasn’t going to tell the story of the “terrible miscarriage of justice” Keith is suffering. That was GOOD! She basically told them, “you’ve got a big nothing sandwich, however I will tell the story of your attempts at moving on with your lives.” The reporter should have been paid for that advice!

@ilenhalogram

Жыл бұрын

To the NXVIM 5 - it’s ok to admit you were duped. Isn’t it a trip when folks double down on the BS instead of just admitting to being wrong? Idk about y’all but I’d rather deal with being wrong then hanging on to a proven manipulative vindictive f#ckboy. But hey that’s just me.

@ilenhalogram

Жыл бұрын

The part where the one chick gets dropped by her lawyer and looks dumbfounded is gold.

@beecharmer9522

Жыл бұрын

@@ilenhalogram yeesss!

@beecharmer9522

Жыл бұрын

@@ilenhalogram THE NXIVM FIVE aka RIGHT FIGHTERS; The right fighter is the person who places a higher value on being right than anything else. This is the person who in the face of overwhelming facts, common sense and realities, persists in the quest to be right.

Although I think Alison deserved more time, it's heartbreaking to see the extent to which he manipulated her. She was so particularly fragile. The clip the interviewer mentioned stood out to me too where he quite literally asked HER a question, then pretended he didn't and that she was being narcissistic for thinking that he did. That's master level gaslighting right there.

@perry5509

Жыл бұрын

Idk… what’s sad is, a guy did that to me at a bar the other day. He tried to anyway ‘oh you thought I was hitting on you? That’s cute’ I told him I recognised him, reminded him that he’s already hit on me and I’ve already rejected him before. The point is, those tactics are pretty common. It’s so sad that Keith found these women so young that they never learned how to shut down manipulative comments like that

@user-rc2fj9nx1l

3 ай бұрын

She traded India Oxenberg for payment. So, yes. She deserved more time, but I think it might have been better spent in a therapeutic setting, given the circumstances.

This doc was the best I've ever seen. Just breathtaking

This documentary is incredible! I really recommend it because we don’t realize how easy it is for us to fall victim into something like that. As humans, we all want a connection and there will always be monsters like Keith who will want to take advantage of that.😔

This documentary was incredible. One of the best things I have seen for years.

Why didn't the doc talk about the money at all? They didn't follow the money aspect at all. Nancy had half a million in cash found in her home. The abuse is obviously the most important issue but there are people who let these things happen to make money and that should have been addressed. I'm not saying Nancy is one of them but she could be

@blamyflemp7766

Жыл бұрын

Yes! I want more intel on the lonely bc her charges were partially tied to the $

@Deeplycloseted435

3 ай бұрын

Nobody has a half a million in cash in their home, if it was acquired legally. That’s a medium-sized suitcase in $100 bills. Its just not safe to have it, unless she KNEW she may have to run. Its hard to carry more than that.

I loved it. The slow realization Nancy had with Keith. How much he used and manipulated her. Really fascinating stuff from a psychological standpoint

She was very affectionate with Keith, notice all the times in the documentary where she’s hanging on him and kissing him and showering him with affection. I won’t forget when she told Barbra Bouchey when she came to her for help and she said “you really don’t understand him, do you?” Like she was shaming Barbra for not being his slave and allowing him to be with other women. I did feel bad for her crying knowing she threw her whole life away, her daughters and all the other women. She did a lot of harm. And she also made a lot of money. I can’t believe she never had another person in her life after Keith, and her daughter never had children because of him. That’s just sad. It’s also creepy that she slept with him and then her daughter slept with him. I was horrified he left the woman Pam that had cancer, in her own waste, and that he took her millions of dollars from her and used her as his recruiter before Alison Mack came on. He should have been charged with contributing to her death. I totally believe he did something to the older women that were in his harem, that all mysteriously got cancer, so he could replace them with younger ones. I also have thought he may have caused his mothers death. It bothers me that no one investigated that throughly. Frank Parlato did a report on Tv about it, and found something in their hair that would point to poisoning. I don’t care if he is in prison, that should be investigated, he may have been slowly poisoning many of those women. Even Nancy got cancer. Hope she didn’t drink or eat anything that he gave her.

@barbararipani1331

Жыл бұрын

Exactly

@pnwlady

Жыл бұрын

Yes! The goo goo eyes. It’s a red flag. You should not be in love with your teacher. Erotic love is a huge no no, agape love is the only healthy love a teacher should foster with his students.

The worst of his mind teazers was when he said that abuse was a construct. I’d hate to hear what his take on consent is.

Nancy was a frog in cold water, Keith turned up the heat, she lost a sense of herself. The smartest most brilliant people can lose sight of the shore.

@Stanhope66

Жыл бұрын

I disagree. She was a professional in NLP. She knew exactly what she was doing. The programs she and and KR designed were done so in classic manipulation and control techniques. She absolutely knew what KR was up to and helped cover it up. She got off lightly.

@srso4660

Жыл бұрын

@@Stanhope66 you may be right but if you don’t live in her head, there’s no way you or anyone will ever know for sure.

@thetroll6573

Жыл бұрын

I like how you put that but I don’t think it applies to NS. There is a difference between being unaware of wrongdoing and simply ignoring it.

This interview adds a lot of value to the discourse on this and similar subjects. What Noujaim said at the end, that if we shun and shame everyone for making mistakes we are feeding a culture where it is more adaptable for survival to escape accountability rather than own up to things. Regardless of how we may feel about the victims becoming victimizers, and complicit in their own way, we don't create healthier societies through ostracization. We have to make it safe for people to re-integrate. That perspective alone makes this interview an invaluable part of the whole NXVIM conversation. I wish it had been included somewhere in the original documentary.

Obsessed with series watched each episode several times. Nancy is a fascinating human being.

@nxivmartnxivm6587

Жыл бұрын

What makes her fascinating?

@georgiaamanatides4207

Жыл бұрын

@@nxivmartnxivm6587 I guess grooming her daughter to have s$x with the same man she was having s#x with, Keith, makes her fascinating, huh? 😉 Gotta love 🤮 a woman who betrays her daughter like that, huh?

@carochan86

Жыл бұрын

@@nxivmartnxivm6587 she was brought up Jewish and taught not to worship false Gods . Then there comes along Keith. To me it makes no sense .

@ilenhalogram

Жыл бұрын

Yes fascinating seems that Keith had this wicked developing plan since a teen- and Nancy being an NLP practitioner single mother with drive and passion she totally ate up his BS. It’s crazy how she was basically a hypnotherapist that was manipulated by Keith with her own techniques she thought were being used for good. You can see the possibilities of her knowledge and skills with the Tourette’s studies she did. If done without the dubious intentions of Keith - Nancy actually has some really interesting takes on subconscious mind- I am curious as to what she could do without being manipulated by Keith but also having the knowledge of the potential harm NLP can have. It’s crazy how sometimes crucial experiments happen in dubious ways. Like the twin experiments. It’s crazy because the experiments they did on Tourette’s tho not properly encased - would not be able to happen in other situations. It’s just really interesting that the most compelling evidence of “good” NXIVM offered was the one place where you can see how talented Nancy is but also how Keith masterfully manipulated and misguided her into enabling such awful things. I think it’s a travesty- so many talented we’ll meaning people got so wrapped up in Keith’s grandiose lies. It’s also gut wrenching knowing that Keith was going around telling everyone he was a celibate monk but really- he was only celebrate through “making” Nancy be celibate. What a asshat. Keith sucks.

@markus5862

Жыл бұрын

@@ilenhalogramI agree completely. Not a very intelligent take, but he was a complete piece of shi*

Jehane Noujaim did such an incredible job on this documentary, it’s so good I’m going to watch both seasons again. Hopefully, she will interview Lauren Salzman and give us a third season. It certainly seems the leadership role from NXIVM, ESP, DOS etc. fed Keith’s ego and is a testament to the proverbial saying, “Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely”. It’s sad that these human potential type programs are always so sketchy and prey upon people looking for a more fulfilling life. There was a scene with Nancy where her therapist criticized the basis of her “teachings” saying something along the lines of, “breaking people down only to have the answers readily available to build them back up, giving the illusion of a powerful experience.” I don’t remember verbatim but she hit the nail on the head as far as the psychology behind this type of BS of self empowerment.

@pnwlady

Жыл бұрын

I would love to watch her, Loren and some legit professionals go through her experience and break down the techniques he used to basically brainwash them. It’s a friggin potpourri of anti-social psychological abuse.

Nancy repeats multi times she helped 1700 people. Did she? Just because they went on with their lives doesn't mean she didn't f it up for them along the way.

"Poster for narcissism" was truly haunting. Thank you for this question. It seems like the answer may have been edited down, I wish we could've heard the directors complete answer.

I have recommended The Vow to so many people lately after finishing part two. Incredibly well done and gut wrenching.

I watched both seasons of your documentary. Excellent! Season 2 exposed WAY more than I thought was going on, and it ended up being so much worse! The Daniella story was heartbreaking. Keith used and abused so many people, the worst being Daniella and her entire family. I still don’t understand how even her parent’s turned against her. I hope this family is able to heal. Then there is Nancy. I get that early on ESP might have been good, but it morphed into a cult under her direction. Couldn’t believe SHE had sex with Keith too. Then her daughter Lauren enters into a sexual relationship with him for years? That is when Nancy should have woken up. How this man had all of these women under his spell I will never understand. He is disgusting. The 6 people who are defending him in public need to wake up. They came across as complete mindless cult members. I hope they have woken up by now. Would be great to have a follow up to see if they did. Also, anyone notice all the denim shirts and jean jackets the women wore? So interesting. Thanks for a great documentary! I’m telling everyone I know to watch.

@rhyker9597

Жыл бұрын

@silentsledgeHe was 48 when he had sex for the first time with Camilla who was 15. At the time of his trial in 2019 she was 26 and Raniere was 59. 🤮

@judithtjed

Жыл бұрын

@silentsledge wow I didn't know that. He is a creep

@marthawoodworth

Жыл бұрын

Where can I watch Season 2??

@judithtjed

Жыл бұрын

@@marthawoodworth it is on Hbo Max

@taylors445

Жыл бұрын

The women who still follow Keith like Nikki, have a podcast that completely takes the Vows 2nd season out of context. They only react to things in the show they can talk about without getting into anything that contradicts their narrative about Keith. They never show any of their so called evidence that they have to exonerate Keith. It’s honestly just ridiculous. They are always condescending and purposely vague in their replies to comments. Definitely giving off the air of we are so much better than you people, we know the truth and you are all blind sheep. Literally the worst thing I’ve ever tried to watch. I used to feel bad for the people who still follow him but the women in that podcast completely erased any empathy I had for them. They are just mean and spiteful that their “great vanguard” got exposed for all his disgusting behavior. I feel like Nikki and the other women are so blinded by their love for that monster, that they absolutely refuse to believe or look at anything critically. They would rather just stay in their delusion of the “glory days” they had with Keith. 😑 I know this comes across very harsh but after the way these women talked about Daniella and the other people who spoke out against the cult, I no longer feel the need to defend their actions. Yes they were victimized. Probably worst than some of the people who got out of the cult early. However that doesn’t justify their awful comments about the people who pretty much saved their asses from being under Keith’s complete control and supervision for the rest of their lives. They could have walked away and gotten help but they decided to stay under Keith’s thumb and completely trash anyone that disagrees with them.

Really great interview, thank you! I just finished the last part of The Vow and it was good to be reminded of HOW FAR BACK this journey started with just getting people to talk and consider that this was maybe a cult-of-personality situation... I'm STUNNED the parallels to $cien7ology aren't mentioned, btw. The suppressive person label and "mind over matter" approach to therapy... Key parts of religions, I mean, cults.

@GratefulDave93

Жыл бұрын

Isn’t religion just a cult+time??

@UdoADHD

Жыл бұрын

@@GratefulDave93 + large numbers of people + change or expansion in leadership

@GratefulDave93

Жыл бұрын

@@UdoADHD I mean I would argue that that all comes with time, but your point is well taken

@remylewis8721

Жыл бұрын

Pretty sure the only reason they didn’t draw parallels is two fold: they wanted to focus on their stories and the victims of it. And secondarily $cientology is FAMOUSLY litigious so they didn’t want to get caught up in a lengthy court battle and potentially end up not being able to release their project.

I love how much wisdom this woman reveals without a biased perspective

Incredible series, both parts. Excellent work by all associated with this very complicated project. You have my admiration and thanks for creating the series.

@ShowUpandGlowASMR

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree 🙌

Second Season is SOOO much more interesting. Lots of details we didn't know. Still curious how the men rationalize the POS classes.

The manipulation of Allison when he turns her comment into something about narcissism stood out to me too. Her silence was....everything. Fuck that dude.

Great interview. Thank you .

How Lauren didnt also go to prison for awhile I dont understand. She was a trafficker/kidnapper of a minor girl.

i had been saying since the beginning of knowing about this case that i guarantee keith at least tried to make a move on nancy. theres no way with his pattern of behavior, he spent that much time with a woman and didn't try to turn it into something sexual. and then the last episode, there it is! it didn't surprise me that he cut it off either. i really think women were trophies for him. he got what he wanted out of nancy and he moved on to her DAUghters.

@emanzeism

Жыл бұрын

Predator's gonna do what predators do.

These women were like Raniere's Manson girls.

This was a great documentary. I loved seeing Nancy's story as well. I would like to know about the old woman statue in her home.

Hmmm ... so I understand the point the Director is trying to make about people taking personal responsibility, but I'm just not sure we saw that in S2 with Nancy Salzman. For me, she came across as either 1)in denial or 2)continuing to make a sales pitch or 3)a victim (and maybe she was at times). I didn't see a lot of ownership from her.

@BlueYellowGreenVc

Жыл бұрын

That's true. I think she still needs some time with processing how her involvement contributed to everything. I remember a scene where she was crying, saying "how do you come to terms with the fact you were part of something so evil" (very much paraphrasing). She needs time. Her organisation wasn't associated with DoS and she genuinely believed she was doing good.

I finish the documentary yesterday and I can't think stop think about Nancy. She deserve our empathy. She was trying to make good things and keath stolen her dreams. I'm very sorry for her.

@GMAMEC

Жыл бұрын

Yes, it’s very conflicting and confusing. She hurt a lot of people. It required an arrest for her to come clean. She knew quite a bit and covered for Keith.

@amyph

Жыл бұрын

Well, she got with a conman with no training and developed a multi level marketing company with an expensive curriculum taken from pseudoscience, Scientology and other garbage with a little CBT thrown in. And participating in attacks on people who left the organization , a classic cult tactic, deserves some kind of consequence

@YourSisterKennedy

Жыл бұрын

I’m sorry, I’m just not buying it. I think this was just an attempt to save her own butt. She expressed way more grief over herself rather than for all the harm she not only caused, but orchestrated for decades.

@JessY-ft6io

Жыл бұрын

@@YourSisterKennedy I just finished season 2 yesterday. Just when I had some sympathy for her and seeing her realization of who Keith was, she was more upset with the Judge calling her out on being a bad parent for introducing her daughter to the group and her knowing she got involved with Keith. That was quite a telling end for me.

Excellent interview. We will never really understand what compelled Nancy to participate in and reinforce Keith’s sociopathy.

I study NLP and have a Degree in Psychology. It’s clear that their work was valid. It was just a monster in the midsts exploiting the tools of NXIVM. Poor Nancy!

There was so much information in the first and second series, I’m definitely going to have to rewatch it. There were so many different people and stories, it was hard to keep them all straight sometimes. I wish I had some kind of mind map as a compliment to the series.

Great documentary-so well done.

Great interview!!

I watched the whole series, it was excellent btw, great job. But Nancy, man, I felt so bad for her, I worked for someone who was similar to Keith. She was associated, and high up, and bares responsibility, but I do feel bad for her. Not sure if I should… but the victims in this, like the 15 year old, my God! What a monster.

@catherinehart3775

Жыл бұрын

Yeah my heart really broke for her watching her wake up to what she helped create. I don’t think she shouldn’t be held accountable for her participation. But she showed her humanity-unlike Keith. She was definitely a victim of his longest and most successful con.

@jennifermcgoldrick6323

Жыл бұрын

I watched the end last night and I teared up for Nancy. Still know she’s partly responsible, but she was one of his first victims. I found her to be very sympathetic.

@simplystreeptacular

Жыл бұрын

My heart definitely broke for her. Yes, of course she bears responsibility for what she did, but I truly don't think she's a bad person. She's one of Keith's victims, too.

@elizabethpeterson455

Жыл бұрын

I have watched this whole thing...and have watched segments over and over for two years and I can relate to Nancy not on a total level, but on a personal one. She was discovering g that she could be in a big job with a man she at first almost worshipped, and she could take his journey with him almost celebrity like in nature. The lifestyle was heady, she met many smart people, and she saw this as an amazing opportunity for this amazing job with advancements and prestige. At first. The final episode was so painful for me to see, and for her to remain present in the face of what she was discovering at the hands of the monster she adored will always remain as the epitome of her self discovery. Nancy was taken in and her revelation about how Keith left his lover in a soiled bed ...dying and coming to Nancy and asking her to clean her up but only after she made him breakfast was horrifying beyond belief! That must be something she will always remain in horror about...but Keith just sat and ate breakfast...this monster was responsible for what happened to everyone here and life in prison is too good for him.

@jes11

Жыл бұрын

Mark Vicente is looking for stories of Narcissistic abuse in the workplace, he gave the url to submit stories through in his season 2 finale video released yesterday. If you had any interest in submitting yours you can find the video on his YT channel. His videos are great as well. 👍🏼

nancy salzman got the dream edit. the victims deserved a lot better than that. the trial testimony has women saying that Nancy threatened them that if they didn't reach a certain weight (in sylvie's case it was 100lbs) they'd have to, quote, 'leave the community'

@carochan86

Жыл бұрын

I hope they explore Nancy's crimes a bit more in Season 3. Maybe they could explain the money she has in her house. Also how people made a living in that cult.

Hurt people do NOT hurt others, they nurture. Evil people hurt then claim they were victims to manipulate others.

I watched the series too and I fluctuated between disbelief and compassion. Who did this little psychopath believe he was? Hugh Hefner? Yeah, maybe that’s what he thought. But why can’t people learn from these stories instead of repeating them in an even bigger way? First clue. One man (short little bully manipulator) surrounded by beautiful women. All his. The fact that so many women were WILLING participants is the other.

@sherrytelle

Жыл бұрын

I agree completely! What I can't get over is how he drew them in....my creep-o-meter was going off the very first time I saw him speak, and his videos with Allison Mack are cringe worthy. Hindsight is 20/20 but I have run across enough of this kind of creep to steer clear. I think too many women have too little self confidence and that is what he preyed on.

@mattmoss20

Жыл бұрын

It was the volleyball...all that volleyball.

I felt bad for nanc throughout the doc until she said she was more upset w Sarah and mark than Keith. And then felt bad for her again during the last few episodes until her sentencing and then felt like yes maybe she does deserve to serve some time for her part in it all since she still believes that Keith meant to do good with his teaching and really ignored in some ways the damage she caused. I hope she realizes in the end what Sarah has done for her family, getting Lauren the sentence she did get. I don’t think she would have gotten that without Sarah’s letter to the judge. I hope she realizes the good that Mark and Sarah and Bonnie have done and how it has directly impacted her daughter in the end: really an outstanding series. Hoping for more because I think there’s so much to be uncovered. I hope one day Allison Mack speaks to her and Lauren as well to maybe help those who still follow Keith to realize they are wasting precious time in their lives.

I felt like Nancy had a lot of grandiosity driving her. She would not believe the psychologist telling her that the program itself was cult like and when Nancy was talking to the film maker she was using her teaching and persuasion skills. I feel she was deplorable.

It was a great season 2 but what I wanted was a discussion on Nancy’s charges and where was her part in them.. or even Nancy’s reactions to the charges because it’s odd to me why she got so much time.

It's an interesting point, right at the end, because in this day and age, what really is the benefit of 'coming clean' when people tend to pile on as much as they can, as long as they can, until a person is utterly ruined? How is that a beneficial outcome for us as a whole towards becoming better human beings?

come on. they ALL knew about Daniela

Love what she has about holding space for accountability

Isabella's parents seem not easy to live with. Her father obviously doesn't listen to or respect his family - he doesn't let people finish their sentences and he always has to have the last word, which always seems to be in opposition to others

Watching the documentary I got the feeling that Nancy was trying to save herself. She must have known what was going on in the cult. It's hard to believe her when she said that she had no idea what Raniere was doing.

@marirussell3929

Жыл бұрын

Agree. She never really shows remorse for damaging or hurting others, more that she just feels sorry for herself and her kids. She did a LOT of weird and creepy stuff. Most of the tears are for herself

It was difficult for me to see Nancy so broken after being sentenced. She looked aged and truly destroyed. It was hard for me not to feel bad for her and I hope she is okay and her mom is okay although age was not on her side.

@carochan86

Жыл бұрын

Youd age after 20 years too.

I’m glad they moved away from following the three people from the first one. They really didn’t own up to how the pushed on other people. Idk if I want to watch the second one and give Nancy that attention. She was complicit in so much evildoing.

I found myself really feeling for Nancy by the end of the documentary. I can see how deep she was indoctrinated and abused by Keith herself in order to be blind to his actions so he could then abuse and indoctrinate her daughter. I really believed her remorse, she will carry that for the rest of her life that's her life sentence as it will be for Lauren too. You really saw bit by bit the unravelling of Nancy's indoctrination it was very powerful very moving and very upsetting.

I don’t think Nancy is a terrible person, she just got sucked into something and couldn’t get out. I feel for her, poor thing… 😢

I have followed this from the very early days. The two series were excellent. On Season 2 I was impressed with Nancy Salzman. She is a very convincing good presenter and it is pity she used this particular "tech" rather than something else. She thinks the material remains good. I think it contains deliberate KR generated flaws to make people feel bad about themselves like so many cults and extremists who even say if you are ill it is your own fault. That does not mean some of its lectures did not help people are were okay. I hope her mother is still alive with she gets out of jail. Nancy was a nurse not a financier so I am not surprised she did not know everything. Those still convinced of KR are always fascinating to watch. The interesting bit about cults is often they break no laws so cannot be prosecuted. The prosecutors stuck lucky here (as they did with Warren Jeffs and the FLDS) because of moving girls across state lines and under age sex. If cult leaders just obeyed the law there would be none of these problems.

What a great documentary! I’m sad it’s over however I think it was unfairly generous in how they portrayed Nancy. She should have gotten as much time as Keith in my opinion because he never would have gotten away with most of his garbage if she wasn’t there giving him and their business legitimacy. I’ve heard interviews and podcast that discuss how mean and controlling Nancy was with her power. Can’t you just imagine Nancy sitting in prison with a whole group of women sitting on the floor all around her listening with rapt attention to her giving them tips about how to improve their lives? Nancy may be sorry Keith got them caught but she won’t ever stop. She’ll start another “community” when she gets out. She has to. She’s used to being worshipped and she wants that back.

@jaymesEo6

Жыл бұрын

I agree she got a slap on the wrist. She was manipulated in a way I don't think most can understand. She isn't evil, but she isn't an angel either.

@thunderousapplause

Жыл бұрын

we will see if shes able to change. I hope so.

@jesyra

Жыл бұрын

I’m not sure I totally buy that. I don’t see her as culpable as Keith. She doesn’t have “followers” whereas Keith is currently still pushing his devotees to avenge him. I think she got caught up in her own goals for her company and managing Keith’s increasingly narcissistic behaviour. She should have broken free and stopped things, but I don’t think she was aware of how far Dos went. Maybe more harsh than she got, but Keith is the worst and most dangerous person in all this.

Where to watch

Did she get an answer for the grandma puppet in the background??

I feel real sorry for Nancy HOWEVER she was so unaware and concerned about what she could do that she brought her own daughter in that mess and blissfully let Keith Controll her. I hope she heals but learns her lesson.

Correction here -- most victims of abuse do not become abusers. I think that needs to be cleared up with the director so that this idea is not perpetuated further throughout society.

@LouLou-bu2th

Жыл бұрын

100% - so tired of this lie being repeated!

The first season had so much filler, I'm reluctant to watch the second. I do like the fact she took responsability in the end, unlike some women who won't be mentioned, let's call her E. Homes... No, that's too obvious: Elizabeth H.

@jackiejns983

Жыл бұрын

Second Season is much better - more compelling - more facts

@rachelee8801

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I wasn't a huge fan of the first season and didn't think I'd like the 2nd season. But I binged it yesterday and it was really good. It does a better job of laying bare Keith Raniere's wall of bullshit, which just crumbles around him; it's a joy to watch.

I felt so bad for Nancy, she dedicated her whole life to that program that she believed in and he took it and made it creepy and disgusting.

Wow! Poor Nancy. She had absolutely nothing to do with this.

@Sam-dc9bg

7 ай бұрын

I wouldn't say that. Did she know about the "sex cult aspect"? I don't think so. .....but NXIVM was a pyramid scheme and a cult even without DOS. I suggest you read up on Keith Rainere's history before DOS was even created, and draw your own conclusions.

This dude is nuts!!!!

The dossier group who support Keith are so upset by the docu series 😂

@MsCCarolinee

Жыл бұрын

truth hurts

@tonyaa8738

Жыл бұрын

Part of Keith’s punishment is not having contact with any former members so I think they make those podcasts for him hoping he’ll get to watch them from prison. I’m not sure how much KZread time he gets but I’m sure he’s loving the attention. Hopefully one day Nicki and her crew will wake up because they’re still young enough to have a good life if they want.

@UdoADHD

Жыл бұрын

@@tonyaa8738 I don’t remember the name of the bald lady but she seems to be the alpha woman of the group. I figured she isn’t Keith’s type and heading this movement is her chance to finally get picked

@tonyaa8738

Жыл бұрын

@@UdoADHD I think you’re right. She sees her chance for a power move. When will they wake up and realize it’s done. Finished. Over. Go home!

@Coldfox77

Жыл бұрын

That’s exactly what I thought. Now there’s space for them.

You can’t help but to like Nancy. I know she made a lot of mistakes but I do genuinely believe she wanted to do good for the world and just ignored the red flag and Keith’s actions to keep doing it. I also think she was so deep in , there was no turning back. Her whole entire life as well as her family’s life revolved around nxivm. Their identities completely rooted in it.

Hearing other people who tried to leave and were coerced by her not to, knowing what she knew, knowing how she hurt people, and hearing how she basically turned over her own daughter... yeah. I think a lot of it was an act. The anecdote about finding Pam lying in filth and making him breakfast anyway is so disgusting and shows a lot about her character. She's also a sociopath and a narcissist, even if he was worse, together they were napalm. Rick Ross's interview on A Little Bit Culty explains a lot of hwr toxic behavior. Also, the part of the doc where she pretends not to know what a sex toy is used for is peak comedy, and a place where the false mask I think is revealed because the lie is SO obvious. Narcissists play the victim card, and Nancy is a prime example of a vulnerable narcissist.

I’m not sure Nancy’s remorse came across genuine, it felt to me like she was much more upset over the ego wound of being thought of as a bad person than about the damage she helped to cause. Hope I’m wrong and that she’s in a better place but she seemed so insincere.

How exactly was Nancy remorseful...? She only cared about how this effected her, her business and towards the end finally her daughters and her parents. She takes no responsibility for literally anything she was involved with and constantly says the refrain "but we did so much good", she places all the blame on Keith for being manipulative when the tech SHE designed is designed to manipulate someone. I'm sorry but Nancy is MASTER manipulator and is weaponizing the fact that she's a woman to gain sympathy. This director fell hard for those WW tears, there's multiple instances in her interviews where she contradicts herself on something she claimed to have no knowledge of in the initial interviews. For example: on whether she knew Keith was sleeping with Lauren, initial claim is that she never knew until everything broke, second claim is she suspected something was going on towards the end and that the inner circle was keeping something from her, third claim that she was sleeping with Keith, he called it off and started sleeping with her daughter and she was aware of it and hurt by it and thats how she was manipulated for 20 years.

@EB24601

Жыл бұрын

Here I thought I was the only one who saw a master at manipulation. Nancy was driven by one thing, and one thing only - her love for a man who refused to love her back, she was obsessed with HIM, full stop. IMHO her daughter was her sacrifice to KR/NX - she is every bit the monster that KR is.

@carochan86

Жыл бұрын

Nancy claimed she was the only one Keith didn't sleep with. So did she sleep with him or not. I think the kissing everyone had something to do with Nancy. Like a manipulative tool to use towards Nancy but instead it got inner woven into the cult.

@EB24601

Жыл бұрын

@@carochan86 She admitted that they had a short term physical relationship that he ended abruptly and subsequently moved on to her daughter.

@remylewis8721

Жыл бұрын

@@EB24601 she doesn’t say that until the end of the final episode. Up until that point she repeatedly said that she never slept with him and also claimed to have no knowledge of his plethora of sexual partners but also claimed that a lot of her job was doing damage control for his sex life. Overall if you only watch her interviews she contradicts herself A LOT which makes the veracity of her claims a lot more uncertain.

@carolnascimento1203

Жыл бұрын

Yes!

In part 2, Nancy picks up a tchotchkele Keith gave her. Has she really broken free of him?

@marirussell3929

Жыл бұрын

No. She still thinks he did good. She still believes in the curriculum. She loved the power, attention and money she got

I wonder how she’s doing in prison. Nancy. Why do i feel bad for her after documentary!

I didn't like Nancy Salzman initially, but I like her a lot now. It got to me when I saw her break down after waking up to what was really going on; that she was going to jail, after sacrificing her life for Raniere, including not seeing her parents for over 20 years, and not even choosing a partner based on his whim that she dedicated herself to the work. She bears responsibility, but her sentence seemed too long. The judge faulted her for bringing her daughter into Rainere's cult, but she didn't know it was a cult, and wouldn't have purposely done that to her. Although I don't know how much she may have swept under the rug to help Rainere, Nancy isn't a bad person. It was heartbreaking to see the moment when it dawned on her that she had been duped by such a bad and sick man. I sincerely wish her well.

@WolfsHead-bp6vs

4 ай бұрын

yeah...I like Nancy...I believe she was so well meaning she became blind to the truth all around her....one day in prison is a long time & 3 years for a woman nearing 60 is beyond daunting....I hope she lives well moving forward.

@philosopher2king

4 ай бұрын

@@WolfsHead-bp6vs Me too, I should've emphasized that I had a change of heart about her after The Vow. She seems like a genuinely good and well-meaning person whom Rainere manipulated into not seeing reality - this type of mindfuck is something most people can't understand. The saddest part is he convinced not to see her parents much for 20 years, and when everything fell apart, she realized how much she had missed. Her father was near death at a hospital, she took him back home and took care of them, he revived quite a bit, only to pass away shortly before she was sentenced. Then she didn't get to see her mom for 3 1/2 years while in jail. She should be getting out soon, and I hope she lives a happy life.

@WolfsHead-bp6vs

4 ай бұрын

@philosopher2king for sure...I'm fascinated by cult leaders and the people who join them...I've learned to come around and understand that just because I've never been susceptible as my fellow humans it's without question incorrect to dismiss such people as stupid or naive or easily led...in fact, it seems to me it's our better nature as decent people which can blind us to very terrible dangers anytime we cross paths with a psychopath or sociopath or even a run of the mill narcissistic vampire...

Nancy SAW Keith doing something 'highly inappropriate' with someone (she never goes into detail-why?) and when she confronts Keith. He yells at her, saying he would leave. I don't think Nancy realized how powerful SHE was at that moment. The whole operation would fall apart (as he blames her in jail- 'divided we fall') if she did leave.Watching her daughter fall into Keith's trap was too much and such a betrayal. I still question (Sarah- who never had sex w/ Keith) standing around for two hours, watching other women being branded, and not f*ing leaving. And why would anyone give 'collateral' not seeming to know what it means? Other women thought twice and didn't do this. They weren't forcibly held down to a table and while I do beleive some of the younger women were really 'brainwashed' ,not all of these womene were on strict diets,sleep deprived and so on, either. They seemed to be more worried about losing their business or making a lot of moneyAnd why wasn't it too far for anyone when Keith was talking about abuse & molesting children ot how it was not rape if the victim didn't see themselves as one. 'm talking about the people that just signed up for the course- WTF? I did like what Nancy had to say at the end- so true. I don't think these things are mutually exclusive- you can be both, victimizer and victim. Happens to people every day and unfortunately, because they aren't celebrities, no one really cares. They can't bargain with the courts or get paid money to talk about it. Bonnie is the real hero here- with this group anyway. And Bravo to Catherine's mother, Princess of Yugoslavia- 'Rubbish'.

That last soundbite was unnecessary, @Variety. Save herself from what?! You said yourself that Nancy only agreed to be interviewed if the footage was held until after her trial & sentencing. Disappointingly sensational button on what was a really interesting piece.

Great season of The Vow. Nancy never intended harm on anyone. She got manipulated. Her sentence was too harsh.

I don't understood how people get caught up in these cults. They always say, "it's a slow process and they are manipulated over time", but I have gone to self-help workshops (kind of cultish) through work and always thought they were silly and did not fit into my beliefs. I did not realize how willing some people are to give up their own beliefs and safety just by listening to someone talk in circles. If you listen to a lot of these self-help "cults" all they do is take words, phrases and/or diagrams and redefine them to fit their needs and then demand total control over you. I believe, unless you have a diagnosed sickness, you are responsible for your actions and should be held responsible for your involvement. The real victims here are the underaged kids that were raped and anyone who was aware of it needs to rot in prison, that includes the parents of Dani and Camelia.

@l6318

Жыл бұрын

There are people who are "seeker" types who are always looking for some Big Truth or enhancement of their lived experience who can very easily get sucked into a cult that claims to have the answer or perspective they're looking for. Additionally, some people really want to do good things in the world, and when they come across a group that purports to make real positive changes, they might be tempted to join the "movement." I think in both cases it's easy to block out the low-level cult-y stuff (chanting, colored sashes) because, seemingly, the potential good outweighs the weird (and eventually harmful). NXIVM aggressively courted both of these personality types and was successful in retaining a lot of otherwise perfectly intelligent people over time, while also having thousands of casual supporters who may have gone to a weekend retreat or two, lending the company the veneer of a harmless self-help workshop. That said, justice for Dani and Cami, 100%. What Keith did to them and their family was evil.

Nancy's involvement was more on the pyramid scheme side of the cult and i do believe that she had no knowledge of the "sex cult" side of things.

I felt for Nancy break down last episode Keith is a monster Nancy is not

Honestly, Nancy deserves more empathy, she was another victim and thank goodness she came around and declare guilty.

Don't believe a word she says. She was number two. That's like saying Himmler didn't know anything.

Lauren should have gotten jail time for what she did to Daniela.😊

sadly you made her look sympathetic when really she was the head mastermind next to Keith. And Mark/nippy/Sarah were made to look so sympathetic in the first series yet they also abused/manipulated.

From the 1st season of The Vow, it was obvious that Nancy had a sexual relationship with Keith.

@doublefeature

Жыл бұрын

it's obvious in the fact that we have yet to see one woman that close to him that wasn't involved with him sexually at some point. i was waiting for that revelation because i also thought theres just no way he didn't at least try to make a move on her when they were younger, ie when nancy was younger.

Always suspected she slept with him. I don't believe she was as niave and a victim as the documentary wants us to believe. Same with Lauren and Allison.

nice documentary since: _making a murderer_ both docs have 2 seasons, with twists and turns....

If you liked the Vow, watch 'Seduced' here on youtube. It goes into India's story and footage that hasn't been seen before.

I wish I could start something like NXIVM but like without all the illegal activities and manipulation

This guy, Keith Raniere, tapped into an unlimited resource....unhappy crazy women.

Nippy and Sara are narcissists who tried to pretend they had no clue what was going on when the reality is they knew a lot but stayed silent because they were getting rich. Nancy also stayed silent because she was getting rich from Keith's abuse. The documentary was too biased on these people who are just as abusive as Keith. They're worse because they knew what was happening but did nothing to stop it.

Bffr Lauren was the one who let the girl be in a room for 2 years - evil evil

Nancy was brought up Jewish. But she was worshipping Keith like a God? How did she not put 1 and 1 together. "Thank you Prefecta " like a female Jesus or something

I felt this doc was well made (especially season 2) was good but also very dangerous. The filmmaker used her skills to make a very persuasive case of NS as a victim and while it feels true while watching the series, we know that it just isn’t the case in reality. The series’ biggest missed moment was actually in season one when Sarah and Nippy (two really uninteresting characters) briefly read social media reactions to their fall from grace. There you had the unvarnished opinions from people in the Vancouver acting community, where they were obviously notorious victimizers. I was really hoping to hear from those kinds of people- the ones who were either recruited or turned down recruitment and witnessed them repeatedly try to victimize people. Also, NS mentions several times that thousands of people were helped by Dos but we know that they were at least financially targeted by the group. Why didn’t the filmmaker focus on them at least a little bit? In the end, this doc felt like the Nxium equivalent of a doc focusing on Harvey Weinstein’s PR lady or on some EP’s from Miramax. But enablers aren’t really deserving of our sympathy or time

@achach228

Жыл бұрын

This this this

@RocksAndMoss

Жыл бұрын

Enablers? They were until they became whisteblowers. If it wasnt for Sarah and Nippy we wouldnt be typing at each other right now.

Is this about NXIVM? Took me a minute to figure that out. You'd think they would mention that in the title/credits above. Weird. Was she surprised to hear that Nancy had a sexual relationship with Keith? Didn't everybody with low self-esteem who came within a few feet from him? I have to say, I don't see it as a "tragedy." I have a problem with cult members. "Get a clue!" is the phrase that comes to mind. I think of them as not simply stupid, but it's also an ego trip. "We are better than other people" is the mentality. like the Germans under Hitler. I watched the first "Vow" doc, but didn't really get that much out of it. It reminds me of Richard Pryor saying about "The Exorcist": "You wouldn't find Black people going into a room with the Devil. At the first twitch of the girl's body, they would've yelled, "I'm out-a here!" and run out the door, lol. If I'd met up with Keith Raniere, I'd have said, "You go first, with the branding. I'll make sure it doesn't hurt.Then I would've branded him where the sun don't shine. I hope the victims are recovering, by the way.

@emanzeism

Жыл бұрын

"The difference between a cult and a religion is 1000 years." That'snot QUITE true. Any "normal" religion accepts that its members will interact with other people that don't share their religion, and command that we all have to get along.

@BlueYellowGreenVc

Жыл бұрын

Ironic. "I am better than other people" is the phrase that comes to MY mind reading this sanctimonious rubbish. Everyone believes they could never get caught up in a cult. They're way too smart for that and would see right through the b.s. 9/10 that is not the case. You're not special or some highly intellectual being that could never be in the position of "those other idiots ". So calm down.

@marthawoodworth

Жыл бұрын

@@BlueYellowGreenVc "Calm down" is something misogynists say to women all the time. "Don't talk too much" or "We don't want to hear your point of view or "You're not special" or "Calm down." Go calm your self down, you pretentious - never mind.

Do you think Nancy stands against that old lady and let's the wall hug her?

…because of the odd eyebrows

I’m sorry I’m still struggling to work out why Nancy is in prison she wasn’t part of a cult or a doss She didn’t abuse anybody I can’t understand why she’s in prison and watch the series I think she’s a victim I think they’re all victims to be honest I don’t think any of them are perpetrators none of the women the perpetrators they’re all victims but Nancy should not be in prison for three years

@LichenAndMoss

Жыл бұрын

Read the articles about her charges, conviction and sentencing.

@gshevek

Жыл бұрын

She's in prison because she pleaded guilty to crimes not related to DOS, like hacking emails and manipulating court evidence. Besides that, the FBI found half a million dollars in her basement in shoe boxes, something that the documentary unfortunately neglected to mention.

@nxivmartnxivm6587

Жыл бұрын

There's no such thing as victims with Nancy's teachings. What the he'll are you talking about? Nancy being a victim is pure comedy.

@selsabilbld5048

Жыл бұрын

That's a lie. Watch any other documentary and you'll see she was instrumental in ruining many people's lives

@doublefeature

Жыл бұрын

@@gshevek interesting. i wonder was she hiding money for keith or for herself. any links for info on this?

1.) The doc was too desperate. And desperation is a stinky cologne. 2.) This woman (director) audio recorded the proceedings of a federal sentencing hearing without approval. That’s a felony. That makes her no different than her subjects. I’m not kidding. Go back and watch the opening and closing scenes.

@capybarawarrior1

11 күн бұрын

it’s not recorded… it’s a recreation. are you dumb

I'm blown away by how stupid we are. Keith raniere is lost little kid, and saying he manipulated everyone is just sad. u build up an idol you'll lose yourself. best part, the end of episode 6, nacy salzman is talking on her laptop to a therapist, and the paid therapist than says, what he did was tear people down w his words, then claim he has the answere to build u back up. and Nancy is so amazed with this brilliant women, who just tore nacy down, then built her back up w the " answers" she has. and dont worry it's all for sale. and guess what mark Vicente and all the others real victims, who were also real antagonists just like Keith, according to our government and its laws under rico u are all equally responsible. so nippy, a great man, think about the protection courses that were made. did u abuse your power? ever? and I think he might be the best man I've ever seen. but hes the same as me, his wife, keith and u. we are all responsible for everything we do. they keep belittling keith every chance they get, the question isnt how big of mastermind is he, the question is why would think anyone is that great? if u put keith in jail for 120 yrs, how long will the parnets turning their children in to a different gender get? and if dominance and submissiveness w sex is do evil, are u arresting people who do it? or peoplle that use others like marry for money. u all built keith up. do ur guilty for what happened maybe even more than him, but def equally. there is so much pain , and people justify it every day. just everyone , there is a God, a'snd it ain't in a self help class, just get back with families , but evil and good exist. there is no grey, the only. thing gray is us as people . 🙏✝️💔

@UdoADHD

Жыл бұрын

How is explaining to Nancy what happened tearing her down?

@jennifermcgoldrick6323

Жыл бұрын

@@UdoADHDI think this person is still a follower. Crazy comment blaming the victims.

@doublefeature

Жыл бұрын

@@jennifermcgoldrick6323 nah, no one way a follower would say anything negative about raniere. sounds more like a follower of regular organized religion, tbh. this person is just ignorant when it comes to psychology.

@doublefeature

Жыл бұрын

the difference is you're not IN it. you're standing on the outside and don't have invested emotions. it's easy to say all this from the outside. keith IS a mastermind in predatory behavior, simple and plain. it doesn't make him any smarter than anyone else, it's one particular skill set that he needed to have to get what he wanted. he's simply more motivated.

@TheSuperdupersteve

Жыл бұрын

“Parents turning their kids into another gender”? Sounds like you have been programmed by another cult that I won't mention. Smh.

I feel bad for Nancy.... She was very dedicated to the work she was doing. What a waste....

Irony is the docu. Film makers are the hippy dippy "free love" types who would for sure buy into "vanguards" bullshit 😂😂😂😂