Personally I think that if Ford, had purchased Alfa Romeo, it would have been a disaster. Ford did a very poor job with Jaguar. My God that red Alfa 164 is gorgeous, in my view the most beautiful E segment ammiraglia ever build.

Henry Ford said: "Every time I see and Alfa Romeo pass by , I lift my hat". He knew why 🤠🤩

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Although it’s unclear whether Henry Ford actually said that famous phrase, pre-war Alfas sure were worth of tipping someone’s hat :)

Before you comment: Yes, the red 75 is Davide Cironi's car. I filmed it at Turin's Automobile Museum, where it's on display.

@gr182

Жыл бұрын

I was just about to ask the question! Looks great 😍

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

@@gr182 It does indeed!

@dusankocisevic6823

Жыл бұрын

It seemed ‘fishy’ to me, the moment I saw the AQ plates on it😂😂

Given how Ford's takeover of Volvo and Jaguar wentt, I'd say it ultimately was a good thing that FIAT stepped in 😉

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

I agree, yes!

@jzlnz

Жыл бұрын

@@Matteo_Licata Fiat does not bring good investment to Alfa. Its sad new generation don't know Alfa.

I would like to suggest there was a certain amount of “Italian Pride” that prompted the decision to keep Alfa Romeo in Italian ownership. As many will know Ford were hurt at loss of not gaining ownership of Ferrari in the early 1960s. This prompted the development of their own GT40 which was believed to take vengeful actions in beating Ferrari at Le Mans. However, despite their success, they seemed keen to get their hands on an Italian car manufacturer, as they put in for Lancia in 1969. Despite an obviously substantial offer, the Italian government seemed keen to keep things Italian and is rumoured to encourage Fiat to respond. Although Fiat bought Lancia for a very small sum, they acknowledged to pay all the debts Lancia incurred , which were considerable, therefore helping Italian suppliers as well. I think for a while, Ford felt “Scarred” from this and it was inevitable they would later put in for Alfa if it came on the market, which being state owned at the time , it surely did.

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

There’s certainly been an element of nationalism in the decision, especially given that Fiat was doing rather well in the mid-80s, so the idea of creating a sort of “national champion” in the automobile field must have appealed to the politicians. Moreover, Fiat had plenty of clout over them, as the country’s largest private employer.

After Ford purchased Jaguar, the Jags center console and instrument clusters were outfitted with Ford Mondeo switches and components. Aaargh!!! Alfas with the same items would have been a horror!! Fortunately Alfa Romeo's fate was kinder.

I had only just bought my first Alfa in 1985. I remember hearing about a possible Ford takeover, but never heard about the details. Thanks again, Matteo, interesting articles as always. 🍀❤️

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it! I love digging up these obscure topics :)

A rumour once circulated in car magazines was that Ferdinand Piech around 2008 I think, made moves to acquire Alfa Romeo, just like the Lamborghini brand was purchased before for the VAG conglomerate, unfortunately or fortunately depending on your standpoint the deal was blocked by the late Sergio Marchionne who was quoted saying "Only over my dead body". In hind sight and taking into account that Lamborghini and Ducati were kept genuine Italian and turned successful this might have been a better fate for AR than Stellantis.

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Yes, VAG was interested in buying the Alfa Romeo brand, but Marchionne declined: he could see the risk of having such a formidable competitor using Alfa Romeo against his company.

@dipling.pitzler7650

Жыл бұрын

@@Matteo_Licata In Mr. Marchionnes shoes I think I would have also declined. It would have been like giving away the second big crown jewel.For us car lovers it is better to be able to taste genuine different car flavors,as different as the different colors of our national flags,and I hope that this move by VAG was a lasting wake up call to Italian top brass managers so that they may treat AR accordingly. Now everybody would make them responsible if anything bad happens to AR.

@stevenfernando1842

Жыл бұрын

Marchionne did the impossible and saved the parent company Fiat, which was bankrupt ironically by swallowing up another bankrupt company Chrysler. He died too suddenly. Had he remained Alfa would have been a lot more successful today no doubt.

@nico5179

Жыл бұрын

I don’t think so, selling everything to those Germans is not a good idea. They would have turned Alfa Romeo into another VW Golf wannabe. No thanks.

If you compare the recent Focus to the outgoing Giulietta then it seems Ford still thinks about Alfa Romeo from time to time...

@simonhodgetts6530

Жыл бұрын

Most definitely! Although the G is much prettier!

@paullacey2999

Жыл бұрын

Ive just seen the likeness now youve said it..

Excellent video - and a story I'd never heard. I confess that I am one of those who (despite my love of many FIAT models) believes that the FIAT corporate machine had a terrible diluting effect on any carmaker it touched. Both Lancia (the late and lamented Lancia?) and Alfa were cheapened by FIAT. Somehow spirit and verve were sublimated into an Agnelli fascination with the bottom line. For all that, it cannot be worse under FIAT than under Ford. Good video, as ever.

Watching this excellent video my eye is drawn away from the core subject. Firstly how Alfa's model badging was very brutalistic in the early 1980s and also the genius that was the anodised strip around the waistline of the 75. Much has been recorded on the evolution of the Alfa Romeo badge but the individual model badges have also evolved and came full circle at one point. Probably not a video that would generate big views but I would love to see you comment and maybe throw some explanation behind the changes - the 75 itself went through 3 styles of model badging, the middle one being my favourite.

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!!! Well, three years of KZread have taught me that you can hardly predict what’s going to resonate with people: some of my biggest successes in terms of views were all niche topics I didn’t expect to do well. So a video about Alfa badges may be a good idea, after all ;)

@benzinapaul7416

Жыл бұрын

@@Matteo_Licata With your design background I think your own commentary would be enough as finding the original designers and reasons for change no doubt impossible. Another video suggestion - Alfa diesels - so interesting for us northern european viewers, the first in the UK was the 156 2.4 JTD but I know was so many before.

@gr182

Жыл бұрын

@@Matteo_Licata that would be a great topic! Much to talk about and discuss. 😊

Had Ford purchased my dear Alfa Romeo the world would have been deprived of some of the best drivers cars ever made by anyone. Forza Alfa sempre.

Great video about a part of AR history i did not know about. Thank you again, Matteo. 👌🏻 While watching this video, i started to think about the FNM Onca, aka the brazilian Alfa Romeo Mustang. I hope that will be a story for another video. 🤓

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Here you are: The Story Of The Brazilian Alfa Romeos kzread.info/dash/bejne/a2ypusSFh8isgdY.html

@TheInstructor66

Жыл бұрын

@@Matteo_Licata That was fast! 😅 Sorry, but i did not remember seeing it. There are so many great videos on your channel, that i have to start with the beginning again. ☺️

That's what is colloquially known as "dodging a bullet". For evidence, just look at how Ford and GM treated their Australian subsidiaries. As soon as the Australian Govt said there would be no more multi-billion dollar subsidies to support local manufacturing, both Ford and GM canned Australian production. And even though I'm not personally a huge fan of them, Ford Australia and GM-Holden's unique Australian designed and built "large sedans" (RWD Falcon and Commodores with 6/8 cylinder powertrains) were very competitively priced and highly-competent offerings that really should have found ready markets in Europe (as autobahn cruisers) and on the interstate highways of the US. (I can't believe the Ford F6 Typhoon Falcon - with the turbo Barra inline six - was never offered in Germany ... it was/is a classic "rocket for the road".) Who really knows what the Stellantis future holds for Alfa Romeo, but you can bet the badge would be long gone already had HQ been shifted to Michigan in the late 80s. After having first been glued onto the bootlid of some god-awful motoring detritus hammered together by Billy-Bob and his half-brother Cleetus, of course. (PS - another great video Matteo)

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I do believe that, judging by how it went with Jaguar, Ford would have been a worse suitor for Alfa than Fiat, despite their best intentions. Many poor choices were made by Fiat as well, but there's (almost) always been a genuine effort to make the cars as Alfa-specific as they could reasonably be, with many great products that are now classics in their own right.

Very interesting feature. Its interesting to learn of Italy's determination to keep hold of their marques back then, even when faced with difficult financial circumstances. Here in Britain it was a case of forming an orderly queue for the great sell-off.

Well at least it wasn-t GM that tried to buy Alfa, lol. But as for the megotiation w/Ford - not sure American management could've solved quality flows and strike actions.

@nessuno5403

Жыл бұрын

GM infected Alfa Romeo anyway. The 159's V6 was even part built by GM-Holden in Australia!

@simonhodgetts6530

Жыл бұрын

Yes, sadly GM made a bit of a hash of SAAB……….

@runoflife87

Жыл бұрын

@@simonhodgetts6530 the biggest shame of 2000's actually. Unlike Saturn, Hummer and Pontiac Saab was unique in it own way.

A very interesting piece of Alfa's history indeed. Thank you so much for this interesting video! Ciao 🙋‍♂️

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Thank you for all your videos and stories I think they are the best, and narrated by an Italian in English is the best. Keep with your work … well done paisan as the “Ginny” says overseas especially in Boston area….

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for your appreciation! Your comment brought a smile to my face :)

Very well done. Thank you. Viva Alfa Romeo!

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Thank you too!

There's also a "What if?" best case scenario to be done here? Ford had in pipeline several good cars in the nineties, Alfa had some assets, among them a pedigree and the Busso V6 and Twin Spark four. I could see the 156 being built on the newly developed Focus platform in 1998. Ford made the Jaguar X-Type on the Mondeo platform, they could've easily done an Alfa version instead of the 166. Ford was very successful with the Ka, they could've done a retro style city car several years before the Fiat 500. In essence, it would've been same same but different...

@johnphaceas7434

Жыл бұрын

As the owner of three V6 156s over the years (currently daily driving a 2002 GTA), I can only say thank heavens Ford never got its hands on Alfa. The 156 is still perhaps the most stylish sedan of the last 40 years (and infinitely better looking than pretty much everything now on the road), the best handling FWD platform I've ever driven, and in V6 form (especially 3.2L GTA trim) the most characterful and melodious "mainstream" sedan of the modern era. The Focus platform is fine - if you want to drive an anonymous hatchback. And Ford almost killed Jaguar. Lucky the Indians saved it from a fate worse than death.

@ingvarhallstrom2306

Жыл бұрын

@@johnphaceas7434 My point is, it would probably have become very similar to the 156 as you know it, only made from different parts. The 156 had quite humble beginnings with parts of the platform going back to the 1988 Fiat Tipo. It all depends on what you do with it? To make a better handling car, Fiat exchanged the front suspension set up to double wishbone up front and MacPherson in the rear. Ford would've probably done the same but kept the multi link rear suspension they just developed for the Focus for a substantial amount of money. My bet is that it would've made a Ford developed 156 an even better handling car?

@johnphaceas7434

Жыл бұрын

@@ingvarhallstrom2306 Fair enough. But I just can't see how the 156 could have benefited in any way from Ford's involvement. The 156 simply would not have been the car it is, had it been built on the Focus platform. Why would anyone choose Ford "sameness" over Italian difference? I note that 156 is also a far more adept-handling car than the 147, which shares the same Fiat-derived platform, especially in GTA form, no doubt due to its greater overall stiffness. Hence it enjoyed great motorsport success in WTCC form. I've owned several Fords over the years, and they were just transportation compared with the four Alfas I've owned.

I don't know if this Peugeot-dominated Stellantis is better for AR than Ford could have been..

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

We will never know: as the Ford deal never went forward, we can only speculate about how it would have worked out.

Ford's ownership history of European marques is...checkered. Unlike GM it didn't originally expand into Europe by buying existing companies. It ended up working out well for Volvo until Jaguar and Land Rover dragged the whole "Premier Automotive Group" down, with the further sin that while it owned Jaguar Ford neglected Lincoln by letting it descend into fleet-car stagnation after the LS was a relative flop.

Alfa Romeo was, is and will always be an Italian brand.

Another brilliant insight Matteo. Actions and decisions from a time when people still held domestic brands in their hearts. Ford’s strategic plans prompted FIAT to counter bid for Alfa. Ford’s plans to take over Rover Group (presumably for the K-Series engine?) forced the U.K. government to make British Aerospace take control for a couple of years. Fascinating “what if” stuff.

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!

To be fair Alfa DOSE at least have FIAT's support to quite notable extent, unlike other legends such as Lancia, Masseratti. i find it disheartening that Lancia in particular went from winning rally titles into pretty much obscurity within about 5 years during 90s and now its not really sold much outside of its home lands.

Another fascinating video, Matteo. Thank you.

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Thank you for another interesting video, buona giornata

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!!!

Fantastic episode, thanks for sharing

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!!! Glad you enjoyed it!

Imagine the 75/Milano, Jaguar X Type and Ford Tempo as cousins?

Apparently Alfa's doomed destiny was already written.

Your use of English makes me roar with laughter and admiration. Would you have the time to teach me to speak Italian in the same way you can speak English?? We will never know what may have happened to Alfa had Ford taken ownership. However, I for one am glad all the eggs stayed in the Italian basket. Grazi Mike.

@nessuno5403

Жыл бұрын

Start by saying "grazie" 🙂

@mikesage9544

Жыл бұрын

@@nessuno5403 Rumbled.............

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

I’m glad you enjoy it! I’ve chosen to make my videos in English precisely because I wanted an international public, even though I knew my accent wasn’t going to be everyone’s taste. Regarding learning Italian, I got no specific advice to give you: I learnt my English by getting a language course and studying with dedication: it took about a year, then I never stopped practicing. Regarding the accent, I’m afraid there isn’t much I can do though :)

every day is a school day

Ugggghh! The thought of a Zetec-based Alfa engine. Don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing wrong with the Zetec, but it’s not exactly Italian in character…………

I do believe that given Alfas mid market placement and Ford's ownership of Ghia would have been very fruitful: as much a disaster as Jaguar is today we need to remember that's the result of Tata's ownership and Ford ultimately saved the firm from liquidation in the 80's and brought about nearly 20 very improved years to the marque. Ford also has a good understanding of the European market while having a healthy global reach. Fiat, by contrast has had a lot of excess baggage to carry and one does wonder if Ford would've found it necessary to jettison a slightly lower market brand with such a mystique as Alfa during the financial crash as they did the lower volume company that Jag by its nature has been? God knows, Ford has been trying for fifty years to have a premium European label and Jag had to undergo a wholesale restructuring. Including all new tooling. Alfa may have been relying on older platforms. But, was certainly more advanced in its production techniques by then. Making it a potentially higher profit enterprise for Ford than for cross peninsula market rival Fiat.

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

We can only speculate about what would have happened with Ford, but these "alternate history" scenarios are indeed fun to ponder!

It really is a shame that this merger never came to pass. Those are my favorite car makers and both have a proud and long history.

*Episode 2:* The forgotten story of Audi's failed takeover of Alfa Romeo 😉

I think Alfa took the wrong offer. Fiat didn't want Ford small cars competing with them, so they made a big offer, but with no good intentions behind it. Instead, they left Alfa die a death of a thousand cuts. In the meantime, the Asians came in and destroyed the Italian car market. In my first trip to Italy, almost all the cars are Italian roads were Italian cars. During my last visit in 2019, less than 15% of the cars on Italian roads were Italian. The is what Fiat did to the Italian car industry.

There's another aspect of the takeover often discussed: Ford was planning on reducing workforce in Arese and Pomigliano in order to restore profitability (some sources go as far as to cite a percentage, up to 40%), which undoubtebly didn't resonate well with IRI and the Government. FIAT indeed appeared in the eleventh hour as Manna from Heaven to save the day and Italy's pride, and offered to retain all jobs without any layoffs. Whether this is true or not, it certainly would have tipped the scales towards Turin's offer, exemplified by the aforementioned "Italians saving an Italian icon" mentality. Noone knows how the future could have been for ALFA. Many have mentioned Jaguar and their slow but steady decline (after all, Coventry was pretty much at the same financial pit as Milano by the late '80s), but as far as I can tell, Volvo's development story is largely passed on by. It was also purchased by Ford, and roughly 2 model generations were based on Ford's world platforms. However, Swedish management was given the freedom to make the leap of faith and differentiate substantially from the corporate plan. It managed to emerge from the shadows of the past, and now, under Geely's ownership, is pretty much given a set budget and carte blanche in R&D, returning ever-increasing profits. So, it could go either way, mostly determined by management decisions. Engineering and aesthetics were always there, waiting for a true Alfista CEO to guide them to prosperity. As always, kudos Matteo!

Alfa dodged a bullet there.

In my perspective, Alfa must remain italian no matter what🫡

Driving a Alford Romeo? forget it!!

Not sure Ford would have cared for Alfa Romeo,Look at at Jaguar,Land-Rover and Aston Martin.....Ferdinand Piech would have loved Alfa Romeo in the stable,Dont see Lamborghini and Ducati doing too shabby these days.....

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

The story of Jaguar under Ford ownership probably gives us a fair indication of how it would have gone with Alfa, even though we will never know for sure, of course. It’s known that Ferdinand Piech would have liked the Alfa brand, but by then Fiat had no interest in selling it

It's more or less impossible to say what would have happened with a Ford overtake. My pride, as an alfista and italophile says it would have been a disaster for the brand but in hindsight it might not have been. As a swede I have to say that Ford didn't do a great job with Volvo but it didn't do a bad one either. In comparison the GM takeover of SAAB was an utter disaster for the brand. Who knows what could have happened with Ford in charge. To be fair, and with hindsight, the Fiat ownership haven't been all that good.The 156 was a success but that's about the only one, sad to say. As an alfista, and one that's only ever owned Alfa Romeos since my first car in 1985 (an Alfasud to be exact) I hope that this can change but as a realist I don't think that Fiat is the best for the brand. With Ferrari and Maserati in house, where should Alfa Romeo be positioned? Perhaps a Ford ownership could have been a good thing considering, we will never know.

Alfa would have perished under Ford’s ownership.

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

Probably. We will never know for sure, of course, but it’s likely that the different corporate cultures would have clashed.

Ford bought Jaguar and Aston Martin, AM did OKish, but Jaguar under Ford was a disaster of American sentiment and cost stripping, subsequently the march of BMW and VAG continued unabated, a lucky escape from Ford pencil heads

Thank goodness Ford didn't get Alfa. Every time an American brand gets in bed with a European one, it goes badly. Just ask Jaguar, Volvo (Ford), Mercedes (Chrysler), Opel and Saab (GM)

Imagine a big fat Ford Taurus based Alfa Romeo 🤠

Would be nice if Alfa is under the VW group

@zlatkovujevic7348

Жыл бұрын

Why do you think so?

@nessuno5403

Жыл бұрын

It almost happened between Marchionne and Audi

@paullacey2999

Жыл бұрын

VW has looked after all its brands very well.After all SEAT and Skoda were basket cases before they came in.Look on the other hand at Ford,who bought and then offloaded Jaguar,Land-Rover,Aston Martin.....

@zlatkovujevic7348

Жыл бұрын

@@paullacey2999 honestly I cant stand VW, gas stove light switch, crappy hard plastic interior, and design is not changed for 20 years (golf). Better die whit dignity than live whit slavery. The problem whit Alfa is dancing throw entire history at the edge of bankruptcy. Now days all carmakers are in crisis for several reasons, engine types (hybrid, electric or classic) big inflation, and who knows what? it is not even better situation today whit Peugeot. That Tonale is a joke whit 1.3 hybrid engine. my opinion is best marriage whit Ferarri.

@rangleri

Жыл бұрын

Thinking about this gave some uneasy feelings at first, but after thinking about it more, maybe they would know what to do with the brand.

Luckily the Ford takeover didn't happen. Imagine some Jelly mold Ford Sierra based Alfa or some front drive Mondeo based Alfa. Btw looking at the red 164. What a beauty!

@paulqueripel3493

Жыл бұрын

As opposed to the Fiat Tipo based FWD Alfas? The Mondeo was recognised as having good handling, so Alfa would have had a good base to start from. So long as they didn't base one on the Escort, that was bad. A Focus based one wouldn't have been bad, but much later. And no to Xetec engines in Alfas, oh the horror.

If you think ownership by Fiat was bad, just consider how much Found On Road Dead would have damaged it. Would have wound up like SAAB.

It won't help Alfa either. Ford don't do good owning car companies Aston, Land Rover. Currently Alfa is in bad shape new generation never heard of Alfa.

I’m so glad Ford failed to acquire Alfa Romeo, they would have ruined the brand. Although an Alfa Romeo based on a Ford platform would have offered better handling and ride than the Fiat derived platforms.

From my point of view ,as much tempting was the acquisition of Alfa and as much I love the brand and as much as I enjoyed the gruppo era cars ,at the end financially for Fiat was wrong .Fiat took a brand in debt but with a bigger risk than Lancia and although the incorporation of Lancia was easy enough incorporation of Alfa cost a lot of money because of the effort to keep everyone happy .Fiat through a lot of money to keep the spirit of Alfa alive and even Alfa made some of their best selling cars under gruppo for some journalists and purists it wasn’t enough .Then came the disastrous decision from Marchionne to axe Lancia -like it was lancia’s fault and for me Alfa in my mind is more than a dead weight for Fiat than an asset .Lancia has better chances to exploit and can give a profit which is proved from the sales of Y .

@Matteo_Licata

Жыл бұрын

You have a point. Italian enthusiasts have been mad at Fiat since forever, but I think the former Turin giant actually sacrificed itself to Lancia and Alfa's causes: Fiat bought them to avoid foreign automakers having them, but did not really have the resources to prop both brands up properly. In the end, it only worked intermittently, and the whole shebang just collapsed by the turn of the millennium.

Thank christ ford never got alfa romeo

Would of being a disgrace if ford took over.