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People taking games and plays personally is actually why I went to cEDH. I got tired of people expecting me to make sub optimal plays to save people's feelings.

I saw an Urza player use gemstone cavern pregame. pact a turn 1 win by a godo. then stifle the pact trigger... It was the most chad play I've ever seen.

@vampiricsloth

Жыл бұрын

I bet that guy felt amazing about that game for a while

@sorry987654321

Жыл бұрын

what a champ 😂

@cassingarr7397

Жыл бұрын

@@vampiricsloth I’m still telling his story. I wish I would’ve added him so I could tag him. Idk who he was.

@SudoJay

Жыл бұрын

This sounds like me 😂

Only once have I seen the spite Pact work out. Dude had a Rhystic Study and at the last moment before his turn, he drew the Dark Ritual 😅

There is this person at my local store that has made every game personal against a few of us. It’s definitely frustrating to watch them beat on the player they don’t like and letting the ad naus player run away with the game every time

@hawkicelol

Жыл бұрын

Lmao

@thanhavictus

Жыл бұрын

Conventional wincons rely on these kinds of suboptimal spite and political plays because most casual decks only have those means of attack to win. Cedh is ironically a lot more unilateral and fair because your Wincon is just usually one thing you're trying to pull off and win the game. It's not the mindset of CEDH, it's literally just the how of the deck is built that makes it easier to not deal with table politics

@mightyone3737

Жыл бұрын

If someone is hating on slower decks when there are Ad Naus decks you're within your rights as a member of the table to point that out (after each game it happens), and I wouldn't hesitate to not play with someone who's not following the Rule 0 conversation of cEDH (play to win, no spite etc) if I wanted a cEDH game. If your group is big enough it's not an issue, but obviously if you've got 4 cEDH people most nights that's not ideal, but I'd rather play 3 (or even 2 player) cEDH than play with a spiteful child who doesn't understand what cEDH is. IMHO the alternative is to have the players that are getting that hate run Baral and just return the favor, even if Baral isn't going to win, their 'special friend' isn't going to resolve stuff, that's as fun as walking on sharp gravel with bare feet. People who don't have much empathy often are like that because not enough hardship has occurred in their life, on a fundamental level innocence is a huge source of evil I'd argue, because 'people don't know better' will default to self-interest. When the problem player complains that they are being 'singled out', the whole table needs to side with the new Baral player, most people smart enough to play MtG will probably leave or play differently once their heuristics start to include some consequences to being an ass in their 'mental math'.

@LPchief

Жыл бұрын

Did you talk to him about it?

Man I just want everyone to play their deck. I just enjoy playing the game! What really grinds my gears is when people get salty because they tried to pop off and died or got shut down. REMEMBER this is C-C EDH, competitive Elder dragon highlander! Yeah you got shut down or died because you almost won. You can not and should not be salty about losing! There will always be another opportunity to win!

As a mono-blue cedh player, I cannot help but let the "carpet(of flowers) be rolled out".

I can only say this so many times. People should be able to play whatever way they think gives them the best chance to win. Even if you think that probability is zero, they may not.

To add to the combat damage assessment, I hate when fellow cEDH players wanna discuss at length who to attack and when and they want a good answer from you for why you are attacking them. Yes we should damage the ad naus player. We should chip away at them when we can. But that notwithstanding, I don’t need to provide a 6 page paper and thesis on why I should or should not be attacking you. You’re open and I want to reduce your life total some. End of story. Block or take the damage and let’s move on.

I try to view "win-con-less stax" as something like a submission hold in wrestling. You're not knocking your opponents out, and you're not pinning them, you're just suffocating them out of the game until they tap out. In that view, I find it a valid strategy, but it's definitely a viewpoint I had to adjust myself to.

I thought that was Josh Lee Kwai in the thumbnail for a second lol

Update to pact without mana .. we now have borne upon the wind to win on top of trigger. Gives us more room to do it

On spite pacts I have stifled my own pact trigger before from a position that couldn't pay for the trigger

don't quit early - sac treasures when someone is playing a dockside

I always heard it as "feeding the carpet", which is also hilarious

Not usually a listener to podcasts. This is a welcome exception.

I wish I would have had these tips before starting cedh on mtgo. Thank you for your content! I feel like the online games are highly tuned around rules, but in-person cedh feels more relaxed.

31:00 I don't think I have seen someone getting wheeled into a Dark Rit to pay pact, but I have seen an opponent Stifle a pact trigger that would have killed a the player. I asked why he did that and he said "I don't think I can win this game without them in the game"

I would love to see some more Up & Running deck techs for decks like Tymna/Kodama, etc. Love the content!

The only rule is the banlist. Fight me.

Only feed my fish!! 🐠 😂😅😈🥳😎🙃

I was thinking on the idea of playing pact in a situation where it seems like you may not be able to pay for it. No matter how much I thought about it I was constantly reminded about the old modern ad naus deck that would use angels grace along with ad naus and other pacts to win the game

I actually find normal EDH way more salty (where people's sometimes 'unique' definition of fun can easily ruin a game, technically I'm not *always* 'that guy'!), but I will never not be salty when I'm trying to playtest and the decks just draw stupid hands over and over, when one deck draws it's worst spells, only to watch the other draw their best... wow, I really learned a lot from having the RNG decide that game while I shuffled, I can truly improve now as a player/deck builder because I know that ____ always draws a raging dumpster fire for a hand vs _____, it's clearly what they call a 'bad matchup', when a deck just can't win because the RNG keeps hitting it over the head with a tire iron. It's bonus points for drawing all of the situationally bad cards right away during testing, odds be damned! Decks that don't have win cons are not cEDH decks, I'm a 'run multiple win cons' guy so this is the opposite of my problem, if your Stax deck's plan is for people to scoop out of frustration you're doing nothing but waste people's time. cEDH games are supposed to be fairly fast, if your deck consistently takes too long to take to a tournament (you can't win early, even vs Goldfish), don't bring it to a cEDH table. In lower power settings, you want consistency, but most cEDH decks are very happy to trade consistency for more speed, consistent turn 6 wins aren't worth much if the game tends to end by turn 4. If you ask me, there is a big difference between having a 'combat based win con' and thinking unsupported hatebears will close for you. The deck with OG Elesh Norn or New Kamahl has a win con in the Command zone, you can't call that 'winconless' in any seriousness. I guess even Big Heliod sees some tournament play, that deck's big shtick seems to be giving it's board Vigilance, allowing it to ignore Stax, is that winconless?

Need help to understand the "comboless" stax hate: For example, what is wrong about Winota killing the table in 2 turns while no one can develop their board because of multiple stax pieces? Same goes for Jetmir. I will not argue how strong the decks are. Just interested what is so different about them, compared to a 2 card combo, which might kill the table on the some turn?

Spite pacting is literally the correct play though. Like, I'm not gonna just not pact a thoracle because I can't pay for it. There's a small chance I win if I pact, and no chance I win if I don't.

I would love to know peoples opinions on king making or spite plays in tournaments. Like if you knew stopping one player would increase your chances of making the top 16 or something, would people see that as acceptable?

@RYNOripyouanewone

Жыл бұрын

This is probably the unpopular opinion. But for me, Kingmaking in a tournament setting is different. The mindset when entering a tournament should be "Win the tournament" rather than "Win the individual game". In the situation where you are on the bubble of top 16 and theres 1 other player in the pod that could also take that spot. I personally think kingmaking another player and maybe even spite playing that other player is a viable strategy.. Its hard to win vs 3 players and its much easier and probably better for your tournament run to just make sure 1 specific player looses, even if it means you loose too. If it secures your place in the top 16, to me thats playing to win the tournament, which is what you are there to do. I think there are consequences to doing this.. I probably wouldn't do it at a local tournament with people in my playgroup. I don't want to damage friendships, and chances are the prizing isn't going to be crazy anyway. But if its a larger event I've travelled to, and I'm playing with random people i've never met. I don't really care if they think i'm a scumbag as long as i make it to top 16 and better my chances to win the tournament, why not. I would expect them to do the same. It's also worth noting that this kind of play can be and usually will be disallowed by the tournament organisers. So I wouldn't do it if its going to get me disqualified (that would be lowering my chance of winning the tournament quite significantly).

Yesterday we played as cedh pod with 2 remora's, rhystic and one Smothering Tithe player. He just slam 30/30 Walking ballista after we feeding him with treasures xD

How to not spiteplay casting Pact of Negation 1. Play Hinata 2. Have Hinata on the table 3. Cast pact on game winning spell 4. On your upkeep, cast sublime ephipany for 2 blues and counter pact triggered ability. Back on your game.

6:05 How about: Don't feed the weeds? It could work, phonetically it is fun to say, and it is easy to remember.

Alot of good info in this video(s) love to see it, so are we not going to talk about mono White decks in edh, cedh, etc? Mono-white is one of my favorites, prove me wrong chat

Major and total disagreement for the winconless stax. Tournament magic or any tournament card game is playing against the opponent as much as it is playing against their deck. If you're wincon amounts to hopefully eventually hit ever for 21 with my 2/3 power commander, then that's okay, if it makes the game go to time so be it. Some people will tap out just because they want to do other things even if they had a 1% chance to goldfish the perfect out, that's valid. It can also genuinely be fun for the one playing the stax deck.

Don’t water the Flowers Merch when?!?!?!

So, what's the saying about Dockside? It's don't feed the fish, don't water the flowers, and ... ? Just yolo it and lose?? There seems to be an unspoken rule to just throw out artifacts and enchantments, so Dockside can just pick up wins.

@PlayingWithPowerMTG

Жыл бұрын

There should be a new saying. Don’t bribe the goblin?

@randallco5781

Жыл бұрын

@@PlayingWithPowerMTG what about cracking treasures to deny dockside? That would precisely be bribing the goblin.

Ah yes to feed the fish or not feed the fish?

I think we need an addition about making deals. 1) never lie(except by omission), as this will make the table never trust you again. 2)honor every deal if mechanically possible. 3)never accept or make a deal unless it is to your advantage.

@mightyone3737

Жыл бұрын

I'd make #3 into 'only make deals that you honestly believe will help you personally win', but yeah, lying is really touchy if you ask me. It's not gamesmanship to say 'I have an answer' when you don't, it's gamesmanship to say 'Find out if I have an answer if you dare!', that's the smart play. Part of being good at that kind of gamesmanship is doing it often enough during games that people somewhat expect it of you, and that they really don't know if you have an answer or not, that's an exciting moment, finding out your opponent blatantly lied for personal gain is just going to cause bad blood. Regaining trust is really hard, losing it is incredibly easy, don't make deals with liars, don't lie to honest deal makers.

If I play stax and have the board under a complete lock, I will win if I have the most cards left in my library. Super boring win and annoying loss though.

if u take game actions but cant win anyway you're king making. if u make any moves as u die, thats a spite play. explaining ppls decks card for card to the table is poor form. Finally, if u play a weak deck that isnt true CEDH, by just existing at the table, ur naturally a stage hazard whose gonna randomly king make. In tournament at a Star City Games CEDH event i learned all 4 of these. Ill just say that sometimes, CDH players make as many complaints as casual players but the complaints are just abut different things.

So in other words. Don't feed the fish

People should be allowed to play what they enjoy playing and not let other people in their play group dictate to them how they should or should not enjoy their hobby.

@panzerjaeger3847

Жыл бұрын

Yes, and also if we do not enjoy each others company, I’ll definitely look for like minded ppl to play with 😂

@jeffe2267

Жыл бұрын

Sure, you just won't get invited back.

@BackPackBadger

Жыл бұрын

@@panzerjaeger3847 Exactly 😂, if you don't enjoy playing with someone don't tell them how they should be playing just leave them to it and go play with sombody else.

@panzerjaeger3847

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffe2267 I’m speaking from a competitive standpoint, if one cannot stomach games that are too competitive, then maybe cedh it’s not for them. Find like minded ppl to play with, if everyone is on the same page problems will rarely arise

@BackPackBadger

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffe2267 And that's perfectly acceptable, but that's why there's more than 1 play group in the world and why Casual EDH and Competitive EDH are 2 separate formats.