Thank you Vik for highlighting this can be dangerous with sleep apnoea (even when treated). We've had several people contact us at the charity complaining of morning headaches, not realising it was taping their mouth closed that was the cause. Low oxygen and/or co2 retention we'd guess at. Yes, we don't deny it can help some people, but not worth the risk with nasal stuffiness and sleep apnoea - treated or not! Besides, it only takes a power cut to come along with mouth tape on and a nasal mask, and not everyone wakes up straight away when the electricity goes off!

@VikVeerENTSurgeon

11 күн бұрын

Thank you Kath, it is hard for me to say that it is safe to use mouth tape when there are dangers that most do not consider. I do recommend mouth tape in some people but only after I have done a DISE / examined them and so I know it is safe in their situation. You've heard on your popular facebook forum of people having terrible problems with mouth tape because they just listened to the people in whom it was thought to be relatively safe. I have a friend who was mouth taping and using nasal pillows but in the middle of the night his tongue was blown back (after months of using it trouble free) blocking his airway. Fortunately his wife woke up and called the ambulance and he was eventually revived in resus later. I understand that nasal masks often cause air to pump out of the mouth, which suggests to me that there is a tongue based obstruction (topic of my next video), so the path of least resistance is from the nose and out again through the mouth rather than pushing down into the lungs. I don't believe that RAISING the resistance through the mouth is the right idea - you should be LOWERING the resistance past the tongue and keeping your mouth as a safety back up airway.

@catallergiccat

10 күн бұрын

⁠​⁠​⁠@@VikVeerENTSurgeoncould you please elaborate further on “Lowering the resistance past the tongue”? I am in the situation that wearing a nasal pillow and the air shoots out of my mouth when I’m falling asleep and muscles relaxed.

@Matty72UK

5 күн бұрын

He means concentrating on increasing the aperture between the back of the toungue and back of the pharnx wall. Ie through surgery through surgery or a chin strap but not mouth taping. Then the compressed air will not leak through the mouth and aerate the​ lungs efficiently. I think!@catallergiccat

I frequently get a blocked nose due to inflammation. The reason I know this is that my nose tends to become clearer after holding my breath a few times. Mouth taping has certainly improved the quality of my sleep and I always feel worse for having forgotten to do it: headache, sore eyes with dark circles, an unpleasant taste in my mouth, and generally a feeling of grogginess.

Good video Vic. I agree with most of what you say, but I'm someone who has really benefited from mouth taping even though I believe my sleep apnea problems have been due to tongue and relaxed jaw issues. I was diagnosed with central sleep apnea years and I'm now 61 yrs old with a very high mouth roof, thin, athletic, and nothing that traditional medicine uses has resolved my problems. I've tried CPAP, Bipap, Vivos (which was a complete waste of money and tipped my teeth), and dental appliances. The best thing I have found that I've been using over a year now is mouth taping in combination with sleeping on my side or stomach. No more waking up with a dry throat and mouth, and episodes of gasping during the middle of the night. Breathing thru my nose has improved dramatically. The big thing is that it keeps my tongue properly located at the roof of my mouth. I believe it's really helped me, but realize it may not solve everyone's problems.

What about mouth taping in the context of receiving CPAP therapy? E.g. taping your mouth to prevent mouth leaks while using a nasal mask?

@RyanWilliams222

13 күн бұрын

That is exactly my question. Because otherwise, you’re just going to have air leak out of your mouth at night, which will make the PAP therapy ineffective, right?

@kenspackman7402

13 күн бұрын

I am on CPAP and use mouth tape every night. Works like a charm. Everyone is different though.

@naiyo87

9 күн бұрын

Same issue here. Mouth taping and chin stap don't work; sometimes the body simply demands to mouth breath for some reason. I've noticed this tends to happen mainly in the early morning. I've also tried a full face mask with very poor results.

I mouth tape but with a CPAP. If i dont i get huge mouth leaks. Given I’m supposed to only breathe through my nose with the nasal mask it seems logical that its safe in these circumstances. Do you agree? I have worn an O2 ring as well as the CPAP and my oxygen is fine.

@kenspackman7402

13 күн бұрын

Thanks for sharing Hannah. I do the same with CPAP and mouth tape was a game changer for me. Keeps any mouth leaks in check and I don't wake up with dry mouth, etc.

@gosman949

10 күн бұрын

What mouth tape do you two use?

@catallergiccat

10 күн бұрын

+1 without mouth taping, air simply and constantly shoots out of my mouth. I also tried bilevel and vcom (which does help), but still taping seems to be required.

Hello Dr Veer ! First again and always enjoy one of your videos !!

Thanks for another great video. I'm really looking forward to buying your pillow whenever it's released!

Thank you Makes a lot of sense Really enjoy your enthusiasm Vik Best regards

Thank you for sharing A+ information without the marketing just the mechanics.

Good Day, man! Thank you for the upload. I've been mouth taping for about 3 years now and its shown great benefits. I'm pretty sure I am still having some mild snoring/Apnea events but the mouth tape was a game changer and my Hygienist actually said they noticed an improvement in my overall oral hygiene. Disclaimer: it may be anecdotal and ones mileage may vary. I appreciate all that you do for the sleep community and of course the English accent is an amazing addition! also: So many Cartoon/movie character pins on your coat.. oh my!

Your videos are very informative. Thanks for doing what you do.

I started out with lots of issues, including allergies, OSA. CPAP was an utter failure. I had had numerous surgical procedures to fix a deviated septum, reduce turbinates, remove polyps, and a ballonaplasty to open sinus openings and allergy treatments. It helped significantly but I still had OSA. Started using an appliance that brought the jaw forward. That helped my OSA dropping it to 'minor OSA' with much imporved o2 levels. But even after all that, I was still a mouth breather at night, and frequently woke up because of dry mouth from open mouth breathing. Started mouth taping a few months ago. Game changer. I'm frequently able to sleep all night now due to my mouth not drying out. The mouth taping has had no effect positive or negative on my remaining OSA, and o2 levels are unchanged from taping to non-taping. I tried not using tape again after a few months. Went right back to mouth breathing and dry mouth/frequent wake ups. Chin straps were useless for me. So its an oral appliance that moves the jaw forward and mouth taping for me. I'm open to advice though. Love this channel.

@gosman949

10 күн бұрын

what tape do you use?

@catallergiccat

10 күн бұрын

I found only thing works for me is V-COM, which is a device (small piece of plastic) used with CPAP. It kinda "softens" the air flow shoots into my nasal pillow, and further reduces mouth leak. However, I am still mouth taping.

Great timing and many thanks - as I was only looking up mouth tape this morning after yet another unrefreshed night - and I trust your videos much more than others! Have today ordered the Knightsbridge chin strap, Singing for Snorers CD's and a tongue retaining device, which hopefully may help.....until I get my appointment for a DISE with you!

@julianblake8385

13 күн бұрын

Did you get the chinstrap? I heard that the owner and creator of that strap was being defrauded and hacked out of his business, and that users were not getting their straps and being scammed.

Good stuff there Vik. I'm a patient of yours. You've sorted my nasal passages and I'm trying to habituate to nasal breathing now with the Knightsbridge strap. Really clever design, although one looks like an astronaut! I have mild asthma/nasal allergies too. Would you recommend an antihistamines before bed time? Also do you think a good six weeks will be sufficient? I may have a bit of posterior tongue prolapse when atonic into the airway. Thanks

Dear Vik, thank you so much for dispelling some of this modern fanaticism, coming from Buteyko practitioners (like Mckeown etc.), and even Mike Mew who just generally recommends mouth-taping. These methods can in certain situations really be dangerous and can induce many problems, even though Mckeown and Mew have very noble intentions. Eagerly looking forward to tongue-base problem video. Kind regards

thank you, I have severe apnoea but I also have a problem with a frequently blocked nose. I was once told I had rhinitis but now wonder whether it's over-active turbinates! thank you for making the science so clear to understand 👍

I have deviated septum and I had a lot of problems with congestion and re occurring sinusitis. I decided to give mouth tape a try last year and it changed my life. I also use nose strips to open the airways . I sleep better and deeper, and no signs of sinusitis. I even tape my mouth during occasional colds. I also stopped waking up at night with dry mouth. It works for me!!

Doesn't matter what position I'm in when I fall asleep my jaw falls backwards. I don't suppose there's any exercises one can do to lessen that.

@julianblake8385

13 күн бұрын

try mewing and a chinstrap. It won't work miracles, but it has improved a little bit my tendency to keep my jaw relaxed. Now I even wake up when my jaw falls, and I put it back in place, but that's because I'm mewing all day to train my unconscious mind to keep that position.

@kenspackman7402

13 күн бұрын

I have the same issue and use a soft cervical collar when I sleep. It gently keeps my jaw closed and in place. If you try this use a collar that's not too big and bulky. Just the simple ones seem to work best. Also, don't tighten it too much. Leave 1cm or 1/2 inch of play and it will be more comfortable but still works well. I was surprised at how comfortable it was when sleeping. Note: I also had to train myself to sleep on my side(s) as sleeping on my back was the worst thing for my jaw drop issue. All the best!

Thanks for the video ! How about when one is using CPAP and also tapes mouth , will it improve apnea ?

@janeyates3575

14 күн бұрын

Yes, this is my question as well. I prefer nasal pillow-style masks with CPAP for my mild OSA because it’s less gear on my head. But to wear a mask plus full-head chin strap means a return to claustrophobia and over-heating. I’d love to have Vik address the use of mouth tape (especially the kind that leaves a little gap to breathe) WITH CPAP.

@peterg2yt

14 күн бұрын

Yes, my thought exactly…

Thanks Doc

Thanks for the info great topic - can you give some insight on mouth taping with the cpap machine ( with full make not just nasal )

awsome video

Thanks doc

Q. I have Central Sleep Apnea and use a nose pillow mask. I’ve been successfully taping for a while and if I don’t, I wake with a totally dry mouth from using my cpap machine. Using tape avoids dry mouth and increases my successful therapy hours. I’ve tried not to breath through my mouth and also achieve clear breathing through my nose, what am I supposed to do in this situation? Without tape I wake up with the cpap machine pressure leaking through my mouth?

Before I discovered I had severe OSA, I was taping my mouth because I thought it would help me sleep. Realise now that was probably a very bad thing to do. A year on CPAP therapy and learning to breathe through my nose at all times during the day. Unfortunately at night mouth still drops open (so could not wear nasal unless tape) I'm still a mouth breather use hybrid full face mask. Yes mouth still drops open so wear a soft cervical collar and that does help - not just with mouth but with positional obstructive apnea. Your thoughts on collars VIK?

Thank God, some sense with all this mouth taping nonsense. My dad was taping his mouth with micropore since the 1960s. He was a dentist and like many of them a bit unique. He tried to get us kids to use it. I tried, but i was one of those kids with a perpetual snotty nose, had the allergy salute that permanently shaped my nose into a ski slope along numerous ear infections, which aren't much fun. As I got older, I would argue with him about my desire for unobstructed Oxygen while I slept. He thought it was overrated. He died of dementia in his late 80s. He also thought that being in the sun didn't cause skin cancer. By then I'd worked as a nurse on a plastic's ward, so another disagreement ensued about that.

Thank you Dr. Veek. Can you recommend good chin straps?

I have obstructive apnea. So I tape my mouth to keep my jaw from falling back. Put the tape on vertically and you can still breathe through both nose and mouth. It has changed my life.

Dr. Veer, for those of us already on CPAP, mouth-taping can allow us to use a nasal mask instead of a full-face one... I never had a 'dry mouth' problem until I reached the age of 62, when I started waking with the dreaded dry mouth. It took a few years before I learned the cause and started mouth-taping. I eventually moved to a full face mask since at the higher pressures (13cm up) it's not easy to prevent mouth-leaking... but I still tape to prevent mouth-breathing and drooling... and it can help with jaw-drop too, especially if I overlap my lips to pull my jaw up. I have a big overbite so clenching my teeth actually pushes my jaw back... I've found that I sleep with my jaw relaxed and forward anyway, to combat a C4-C5 radiculopathy... and this helps with OSA. I'm now on bi-level at heroic pressures (21/17cm) and can sleep supine at will... still I tape. I experimented with a cheap MAD for a while... it did lower my APAP pressures 2cm... but not worth it in the end, I was seeing bad changes in bite. I'm also a user of oxymetazoline, not ideal.

@kenspackman7402

13 күн бұрын

Hey there, I've been down much of the same road... I currently use CPAP with full face mask and I still tape to avoid mouth breathing and drool. Many docs say "why use a full face if you can breathe through your nose, you should be using nasal mask". However, the full face mask is just way more comfortable (ie Resmed AirTouch memory foam mask). Anyways, I'm glad to see I'm not alone, lol. One last note... I also use a professionally built MAD (Mandibular Advancement Device) with my CPAP and it's working 100%. I found the cheap MADs make teeth crooked, but a properly built $$ one can work really well (for anyone else reading). Wish everyone the best with getting sleep dialed-in. Cheers!

Is it possible to get in touch with him, even if you don’t come from England ?

Are you advising against taping without CPAP? I am doing it with nasal mask. The tape has a hole in the middle. With nasal CPAP the negative feeling when the mouth opens is enough to wake me up, coughing is hard if the mouth opens. If having positive pressure is doing its job and you can't open your mouth anyway, is there the same harm you are mentioning? Do you have the same concern?

Since childhood my jaw would go slack and fall open as soon as I fell asleep. Poor tongue posture too. I’ve since learned to keep my tongue suctioned up to my palate, and if it STAYS suctioned, my mouth stays closed and tongue does NOT slip back into the airway. Had septoplasty and turbinate reduction 2 years ago and it helped. But I still can’t always stay closed without tape. And even with nasal breathing I tend to over breathe and wake up wheezing in the night. In spite of inhalers.

What if you are on a CPAP machine and you are getting dry mouth from breathing through your mouth with even a full-face mask? Chin straps are not effective when you already have something around your head! So, tape is being advised by many sleep experts to train yourself to breathe through your nose.

"You are right when you talk about mouth taping in non-sleep apnea patients. But for me, mouth taping while using CPAP is very important. My mouth keeps falling open, and the pressure from the CPAP machine causes the air to continuously leak out through my mouth. This results in a very unpleasant sticky and dry feeling in the mucous membranes of my mouth. Mouth taping along with a chin strap are prerequisites for the effective functioning of the CPAP, at least for me.

@kenspackman7402

13 күн бұрын

Absolutely agree!

Thoughts on using mouth tape for nasal CPAP users? My leak data drops from about 20-30 L to less than 5 when I tape.

I was not aware that people were using tape in this way. I use it because while wearing my cpap, air blows through my closed lips. My mouth gets dry and it keeps me from falling asleep and wakes me up if I do fall asleep. My doctor told me to wear a chin strap but my mouth is already closed. I did try the strap anyway, and it made no difference. She didn’t really take me seriously when I told her it didn’t help and that my lips were not open when the air comes through. She had no other suggestions. That’s when I found the tape idea on my own. Do you or any commenters have input as to why that happens and how I can stop it? By the way, she lowered the amount of pressure which made no difference at all.

What causes jaw dropping and mouse breathing on CPAP users with healthy noses who use nasal masks or pillows? I am one of them and this simple issue is drastically reducing the efficacy of CPAP therapy. It tends to happen in the early morning (around 5 or 6am), but can happen earlier too. I tried mouth taping and chin straps persistently without any success. Mouth taping leads to "chipmunk cheeks" which wakes me up immediately. The chin strap, on the other hand, wouldn't keep my jaws completely closed. Even the slightest opening of my mouth is enough to cause this issue. It is almost as if my body demanded to mouth breath. I doubt it's lack of oxygen since CPAP is working very well. For now, I'm going to try out a full face mask and see if that helps.

I'd be interested to hear what you've got to say about people who have had orthodontic work when they were teenagers, where teeth were removed and teeth dragged backwards to straighten teeth... and they ended up with TMD and a tongue that is now too big for their oral cavity.

Dr. Veer, I have severe apnea and was told there are only two surgeries available: jaw advancement surgery and UPPP. I was told by doctors for many years that jaw advancement surgery was effective but it wasn't done in the USA because insurance companies wouldn't pay for it. And I was told by multiple doctors that UPPP was not effective. On a recent KZread program done by a sleep test technician, he said of all the patients he saw that had a UPPP, none of them had significant improvement. I use the CPAP with a full face mask and a pressure of 16, but it doesn't work well; and I feel the mask has reached its limit; I have to torque down the headband a lot to keep it from leaking. I am now in a financial position to get a surgery and it looks like the jaw advancement is my only option. Could you comment on why UPPP surgery has such a bad reputation. It seems like on your videos you have had success with it.

@VikVeerENTSurgeon

13 күн бұрын

I don't do UPPP - no one should. I've explained it here. kzread.info/dash/bejne/Y5yOss6FXZnTqKw.html

ty

I dont know why it works, but mouth taping has helped my apnea immensely.

How about taping your mouth for helping with dry mouth when using a nose mask cpap treatment?

Can it help with aerophagia? I use a full face mask.. tia

Kostyantyn Buteyko was born in Ivanytsya, Chernihiv Oblast, Ukraine (about 150 kilometers from Kyiv). He is not russian.

@VikVeerENTSurgeon

13 күн бұрын

sorry I didn't know that. It seems he was born in the Ukraine and then moved to Russia in his 20s. I assumed he was russian as all his papers were from Russia. my apologies.

@qqqq9426

12 күн бұрын

@@VikVeerENTSurgeon It's ok that you didn't know that. This was after the Bolsheviks occupied Ukraine in 1921 and created a bullshit called USSR. So, if you wanted to be a scientist and work on your research, there was no option but to go to Moscow. P.S. Just a recommendation, never use the phrase "In THE Ukraine", it shows that it is not a sovereign country, but just a territory.

@VikVeerENTSurgeon

12 күн бұрын

Sorry again, no offence intended.

Mouth taping when using a Nasal CPAP Mask is more or less essential, at least for a few weeks until used to the Mask. Otherwise the air pressure just vents straight out of the cake hole and, as an added bonus, it dries one's mouth terribly!

A chin strap 7:45 does NOTHING to hold your jaw forward. It is just as bad as tape at doing that.

@kenspackman7402

13 күн бұрын

Try a soft cervical collar during sleep... works for many people and helps to keep jaw closed and forward (if side sleeping). You may need to try a couple variations/brands before finding one that works for you. Just another option to try.

I use the Somnifix mouth tape it has the vent hole ,and hated the Knightsbridge. Chin strap it’s huge and uncomfortable and wearing a nasal mask way too freaking hot . I tryed it could not stand it .

Yeah sleep apnea - the gift that keeps giving ☠️

Sorry, bit pedantic, Konstantin Buteyko was Ukrainian Also, there’s evidence to show even adult bone structure can be changed with exercises that I think you’ve mentioned in any video, James Nestor and Anders Olsson mention this in thier books from scientific studies. I’m sure they said that panting and mounts breathing does not bring not oxygen but less and panting is the stress response

I'm pretty sure I gave myself brain damage doing this for a year. It's probably good if you have normal airways but if you have screwed up airways like in my case, enjoy the brain fog.

A 10 minute video on taping from an ENT and not one mention of taping combined with a mandibular advancement device. Shameful

@mnot

14 күн бұрын

There’s a way to say that without all the drama.

@VikVeerENTSurgeon

13 күн бұрын

I think if you need to use mouth tape with a MAD then you really ought to see someone about why you can't breathe through your nose. MAD is generally enough to block your mouth to the point where you have to breathe through your nose - if you are needing to mouth tape on top of this, then I would be seriously concerned that your nose is not functional enough to allow you to use a MAD safely. So I apologise that I didn't mention it - mainly because it should not be done. I would recommend getting your nose examined before using the MAD. If you are finding that despite having a large device filling up your mouth that you are still desperately trying to breathe through your mouth, then something seriously is wrong with your nose. Going ahead with mouth tape to further block the mouth is not a good idea in my opinion. I hope that makes sense. I'm sorry I didn't explain this fully the first time I replied.

@zx6guy

12 күн бұрын

@@mnot You are right. With that said, I’m quite certain he’s has at least once (probably more) noted the benefits of taping with an advancement device so it was odd to not hear that here. And he’s usually pretty good about covering his bases. I mean it’s fairly obvious (and theres studies that substantiate) that mouth breathing reduces MAD effectiveness. That just got glossed over here. Then there’s very odd response below. I mean who tapes or wears a MAD to treat a nasal blockage? That’s such an odd thing to say. People tape or wear MADs to treat snoring/apnea. And worst yet, I would agree with him that taping alone probably isn’t helping and perhaps hurting. So yea, I probably should apologize for going off and being short but his follow up is so odd, off topic and doesn’t address the point raised, I’m going to have to let it stand as it.

you can't claim that by breathing through your nose you are less well ventilated- unless you have a particular context. I don't understand you on this.

you do the vertical tape all the way down your chin

I totally disagree with you. I have trained myself too keep my tounge on my upper palate and ,sleep very well with mouth tape Somnifix works very well ,I had severe sleep apena over 30 per hour. With a full face mask and did the sleep test and doc said i was a mouth breather ,now im well below 5 per hour and have mild sleep aoena and i use the resmed nasal mask with Somnifix tape . . .your not fixing anything by using a full face and allowing your mouth too stay open over mouth and nose ..sir god designed the body too breath through your nose,the mouth is for eating and talking that’s all .sominifix has been proven that its works very well with CPAP users and got excellent results .i have been on CPAP over 2 years now and i tryed everything it works quite well mouth taping . There is nothing wrong with the Knightsbridge chinstrap but for me I could stand it was hot 🥵 and not at all comfortable too wear with any CPAP mask .