Been running both Roller and Flat Tappet cams for years. Nothing wrong with a flat tappet cam. They are still a solid choice especially if you are on a budget.

@Sir.AdamsVIII

3 жыл бұрын

Tech question... are cam buttons required for flat tappet 3 bolt rv cam

@dieseldragracer5032

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sir.AdamsVIII No. cam buttons are not required for flat tappets. Assuming SBC.

@haroldheady6454

2 жыл бұрын

Or can't run rollers for rules in class stock cars

I have used flat tappet cams in all my race cars and my street cars and have never had a problem.

@mikeverything4098

3 жыл бұрын

Can I use ls7 lifters on a flat tappet cam

@PHILLY214

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikeverything4098 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@richochett404

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikeverything4098 no.the roller cams are very hard .the lifter will destroy a flat tappet cam

@horizonfluidpower

2 жыл бұрын

Is it as hard a some of these videos are making it seem to install?

@msantifort

2 жыл бұрын

@@horizonfluidpower Line up the dots, lube the cam real good, lube up the lifters real good and "make sure" they spin easily in the hole, adjust your valve lash, add break in oil, run for 20min around 2500 rpm. Done, always use graphite type lubes on all your parts. Never lost a cam. Most people who have lost a cam is because the lifters were crap or they didn't spin freely in the lifter hole.

I've NEVER had a problem with flat tappet cams, solid or hydraulic lifters. I personally prefer solids, there's some extra power and rpm to be had here - and when the valve is closed there is extra oil between the lifter and cam because of the lash. I don't mind checking/adjusting lash once a year, it's a good time to inspect the valve train. Rollers are nice, but the extra money can be spent other places that add up to even more power.

@haroldheady6454

2 жыл бұрын

Totally agree run valve every 3 races after 6 or ten races o go to even more races between

Good video, I totally agree, a lot of guys dont follow procedure, then cry and blame manufacturer for flat lobes, just one other point, priming the motor with 1/2 drill on the oil pump right before fire up is another good insurance policy, thanks for posting.

@scottsharp3356

Жыл бұрын

That’s right and don’t go the wrong way for 10 minutes like me. 🤪

Very good informative opinion and experience. I can't disagree with this as I too have been using flat tappet cams for decades. I started hot rodding in the 1960s. Back then you never heard of a cam lobe getting wiped without putting thousands of miles on the engine or oil starvation. Most builders knew enough to limit spring pressure so that wasn't a problem. HOWEVER!, back then the quality control was way better and consistent. And break in didn't seem to matter. All oil had zinc additive and people could just drive off and the cam would survive a poor break-in. Now days, if a guy were to check the tolerances on brand new, out of the box lifters you will find bad tolerances. My friends complain of it often. Even hydraulic lifters will collapse with an hour of use or not pump up after sitting overnight. I don't do engine work anymore but the auto parts I do buy are poor quality compared to yesteryear. Personally, I don't trust any parts anymore and it doesn't matter if it's auto zone , NAPA, National etc. It's buyer beware.

NASCAR cars use flat tappet mechanical camshafts, albeit, very exotic gear. Over the last forty years that's all I have ever used, and with great success. In my 454/460 CID (over-bored .030") Stingray Corvette, I am currently using a flat tappet mechanical camshaft. A custom ground Iskenderian 272/278. If you have any worries about losing a lobe, order one of the cams from Comp Cams with the plasma nitriding. I used one a while back and I can testify that a nitrided camshaft will never wear out. And by the way, I love the way a mechanical cam sounds like when lashed down to .020". Mechanical music. Cheers! And before I forget, make sure that you use the correct type of engine oil for that flat tappet. Joe Gibbs driven race oil for break-in, and the HR oil from there on.

@AB-80X

Жыл бұрын

If you think NASCAR teams would not immediately switch to rollers if there were allowed, you're very wrong. Here's a question. Why is the Corvette GTE running rollers in endurance racing? Some of that stuff you find in NASCAR is because NASCAR seems to be ruled by a bunch of old geezers who seem to think that it would destroy the sport if everything was not medieval. Hell , just look at how recently they went to FI. They would switch to DOHC in the blink of an eye if they were given the chance.

Great info bro...I wiped my cam in my 383 and didn't know what type it was until pulled...once pulled it was found to be flat tappet...EVERYONE told me to go roller but I'm not...I'm putting the same cam back in...it was found that whoever previously assembled the engine had all specs off (timing, valve lash, etc)...thanks for putting this out there!

Add ZDDP with every oil change not just the first , ask anyone at Summit or Jeggs they will tell you that and your hyd. of soild lifter cam will last . I taught auto mec. for 40 years and has it CHANGED !

Got one in my 76 350 Chevy. Been running it 25 Year's and still go strong. Going to put one in my 79 400 Chevy

Growing up I never heard of breaking in a cam. We always put motors together, put oil and water in them, sometimes they didn't start right off. Never had a cam go flat. Maybe we just got lucky. Maybe oil has changed. Either way since I've grown up in the last 40 years I do break in cams and lifters. Recently discovered Castrol GTX Classic with high zinc. Building a 302 for my Bronco, will try that for break in oil, it works fine for general use.

Throw a bottle of GM EOS / engine oil supplement with every oil change , full of zinc . Never had a cam failure in dozens of engines I've built over the last 50 years

@Schlipperschlopper

2 жыл бұрын

Molycote (2%) Mos2 does the same

@1945tigers

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly what I do with my 4.0 zinc every oil change.Heard rotella t5 still has zinc.

That 289 sounded good (badass).

You cannot beat the sound f a SBF cammed up.

Make sure the lifters spin freely in there bores. The lobe is ground at an angle so the lifter spins and reduces friction and wear

Good info! I have a Chevy small block 400 I had rebuilt, and I did not know how to break the cam in after it was rebuilt. I would idle for it 30 minutes or more and I started noticing it running poorly. I checked the timing, and it was off, but I never could get it to run right. I think after watching your video I know what the problem is...bad camshaft. I'm going to check it when I have time (it's out of the vehicle now). Thanks!

Have had great success at breaking in huge lift cams with old springs ...run a break in cycle with old springs then change to new double springs for another break in cycle then re set lash and run all good had lot guys loosening loob on cam at breaking in or shortly there after so ole timer told me this he did for years on huge motor s. And it works awesome

Installed Comp's XE256H (212/218 dur. ~.450 lift) on my 350 '93 K1500 truck. Put GM's hydraulic lifters with the hardened faces from Summit in there. Bought everything near the end of '21, installed and broke it in this past spring. Used Driven's 15w50 break in oil and now I'm running their 10w30 hot rod oil since I moved to a cold climate. About 200 miles in.. not driving much because I'm still working on the truck, but the engine runs great. The only thing I didn't do was check for the proper convex crown on the lifter faces before I put the motor together.. learned about that afterward. A good local machine shop was essential for me as a first time builder.

A guy who grew up in the 60's told me if you want to make power go flat tappet. That was 30 years ago.

@Haffschlappe

Ай бұрын

Flat tappet with moderate lift ad overlap is better than roller

Collective I love the video man I have a 428 Super Cobra Jet and he has the flat topic cam in it and I love it and it is fast and I also build Chevrolet motors too and I used to Flat tape a cam like such as the 465 lift 224 intake 224 exhaust for a little 350 and that's a really good cam Summit Racing so love the video man keep up the good work

flat tappet cams make power, the deal is before you take the lifters out of the box, make sure the lifter bores are clean, Ive seen guys chase the bores with a hone but ,im not sure thats the way to go, the lifter has to rotate, and some engines have a slight off set for the lifter bores which causes the cam to stay in place plus the cam lobe is off set a hair, the lifters have to spin and so do the push rods pre heating the oil and whatever you got in the cooling system will help, cam buttons are a good idea, so is sticking a magnent on the oil filter( it wont trap bearing material) as its non ferris,vary the start up rpms between 1500 and 2300, .

Flat tablet cams are great for trucks they produce good vacuum and solid low-end torque I was always told the break in the cam with lighter springs and then switch to your final spring

I mostly use NOS cams and lifters if I cant find them, Elgin cam and lifter Prostock Brand work fine.

I'm still running a isky hydraulic cam from the sixties in a 469 Pontiac. Thought about a roller but I like this cam so well I think I will keep it. 320 degrees 525lift. Nothing wrong with flat tappet cams. It makes more power than I ever imagined and the roller lifters I have seen that failed and wasted a cam is enough to make me stay with it. I still want to try one. I think I will build a small block Chevy if I can find specs I like. ..

@invisiblekid7374

2 жыл бұрын

I would think you would have more problems with seized roller bearings on a roller cam than any problems a flat tappet cam would give you, so long you break it in correctly!

With flat tappet cams do you adjust the rocker ratio to compensate for the reduced ramp speed. I notice the NASCAR flat tappet engines use a 2:1 rocker ratio on their flat tappet engines. I note they have since moved away to solid rollers but they were pulling 9500rpms reliably with flat tappet cams.

Valavoline VR1 works well in a car that doesn't go long between oil changes.

Thanks man

I wanted to get a hydraulic roller cam for my truck because I wouldn't have to worry much about a break-in period, but with the hydraulic flat tappet version costing roughly 1/4 the price that leaves about $800 for heads and headers

@RatMaro

2 жыл бұрын

It is a little more tedious with a flat tappet cam but really not terrible by any means. I've pretty much exclusively used flat tappet cams as they're just more affordable. I have a roller cam in my 454 in my boat and a roller for my high comp 427 going in my Camaro. If you can spring for a roller it is going to be a better cam for sure. But there is nothing wrong with a flat tappet, just make sure to follow proper break in procedure and you should not have any issues.

@thaddacusmaximus6706

2 жыл бұрын

@@RatMaro I’m using it as a sort of stepping stone. I have a 96 F150 with a 302. It’s got a chip EFI system that I’ll be replacing with a Holly Sniper EFI system in the next few years or so, but I don’t have the money. I’ll be getting a cam that’s better than stock, but will still play nice with the old tech to hold me over until I’ve got a few grand to drop into a manual transmission and fuel system.

@rickss69

Жыл бұрын

No elaborate break-in procedures needed...it is done almost instantly.

Nice vette. My father has a 70 stingray 454 with a flat tappet . The thing is an animal. He's had it since 1975. I don't remember him ever having cam issues

Flat tappets spin make a good wear pattern.. They're good in my book. Works properly. All in the builder

With todays oils with very little or no zink you must use a additive or engine brake in oil with zink to prevent lifter to camshaft wear !

What oil do u use for a flat tapp engine.? 84 corvette crossfire?

Seems strange to me that back in the 70's and 80's when I was building motors and racing we didnt have all these issues with cams that I am seeing reported. We didnt even have the choice of roller cams...they were all flat tappet.

@user-tw6fb6yz4h

3 жыл бұрын

the oil now has less additives namely zinc.

@user-tw6fb6yz4h

3 жыл бұрын

@Java Aleim I like to use oil for 18 wheelers car runs stronger. I also think they took out zinc because its bad for the cat.

@bigsur175

3 жыл бұрын

Cause the oil companies have took the oil additives out of the motor oil for flat tappet cams emissions government

@scottpopowski902

3 жыл бұрын

Why would you waste money on a roller for everyday street use ?

@weels1886

3 жыл бұрын

Catalytic converters and o2 sensors came in and the govt took the zinc out of the oil so it wouldnt mess up the sensors. Sensors are usually easier to swap than cams.

did you ever had a flat tapped cam go bad whit this brake in procedure? is it good to use 2 botlles of zinc for brake in or is this a bad idea?

I've damage a couple, follow the break in instructions? But thank GOD for Roller Cams✌️ cost more but so do down time.

Good lord, I need the specs on the cam in the 289... that thing sounds hot! Thinking about doing a 331 for my galaxie

@AB-80X

Жыл бұрын

Why not just get a cam that works for your application? Buying a cam based on sound can only be described as dumb, sorry to say. There are engines that sound lumpy because people want it to sound that way, and then there are engines that sound fast. The latter are often quite smooth in fact.

@alanb2845

Жыл бұрын

@@AB-80X I’m well aware of this, hence why I asked for cam specs. I am in total agreement… especially those that buy motherthumpr cams for their 8:1 compression mid 80s sbc. When I built the 331 for my Foxbody, cam selection was based on application and parts used, compression ratio, approximate flow of the heads, etc.

I build a lot of circle track engines most of them are specked to run a flat tappet cam only. I deliberately abuse them. I`m well over the recommended spring pressure and I go through the tedious breakin procedure every time. No failures at all. They`ll go 2 to 3 years before a refreshing then I change em. They don`t look too bad just worn a small amount not losing power.

Dont ever give up the zinc additive.

Possibly mention rpm ranges and what impact the cam has on them.

@RatMaro

3 жыл бұрын

Rpm ranges differ for any cam regardless of cam type.

@flinch622

3 жыл бұрын

Most manufacturers manage that by throwing around exhaust valve timing, but there are other factors. They own/use a spintron for testing, which 99% of us have never used - do not skip their guidance on rpm range, and as always... the first question for any new build is not what hp you want, but what rpm range you will operate in. THEN go shop for a cam [and a set of heads that complement it, with piston design/clearances in mind to get at hp]. I recently swapped cams from flat/hyd to flat/solid... which forced me into a new set of heads. Lucky me!

Do you recommend paying extra to have a cam nitrided or cryo treated when you order it, to guard against going flat? I've heard good things about Howards cams having a very hard surface, less likely to go flat. And thier Max Certified flat tappet cam kits are guaranteed for 5 years, even if YOU screwed up the installation.

@RatMaro

2 жыл бұрын

If you want to spend the money it is added insurance realistically. I personally don't have any flat tappet nitrided cams, and they've all held up fine. But it wouldn't necessarily hurt either.

Here's why I like [solid] flat tappets: less maintenance, because... fewer moving parts. Which would you rather do: pull intake/inspect lifters, or... check lash. You cannot guess on roller condition and in the case of hydraulics. periodic disassembly & cleaning is proper maintenance.

I have around 3500 miles on a 40 over 327. Stock 305 58cc heads with flat top pistons. Has an isky 137F solid flat tappet cam, stock press fit studs with stamped steel roller tip rockers running a kmj stud girdle. I run ZINC additive in my oil because it's a flat tappet cam. Runs awesome. I know ppl that don't run zinc additive and about 10 to 14 months down the road they develop a backfire due to worn lobes.

According to David Viard and all the testing he’s done thru the yrs the roller starts coming to life where the flat tappet falls off so yeah I’d say they’re good.unless you have money to burn or have a specific reason to use the roller,the f.t.seems more cost effective providing as you said everything is right and use the right parts which you would do with the roller as well they work just fine.

Where can I get good lifters someoetell me

Never had any problems with flat tappet cams you just need to run a zinc additive now a days because they removed it from oil years ago so its up to you now to add it

can you put a flat tappet cam and lifters in a 5.7 dodge hemi ram truck origional cam and lifters are shot only 90000 miles on engine i need depend ability not pricey roller cams to expensive im disabled nam vet on a budget im old school i guess

Is that the same as a solid lifter cam?

I use oil with zinc on every oil change on all of my flat tappet engines .. just to be sure. That stopped adding zinc to motor oil back when they started using cats and found out it plugged them up and therefore designed the roller engines to keep the EPA happy. Just sayin'

Iv ran solid flat tappet cams for a long time ....I swapped out to a big solid roller cam ran that for a year till a roller lifter fucked up and eat the cam ...I put my old flat tappet cam back in and it ran the same times at the track

@Big-Lex124

Жыл бұрын

I have a FT cam in a 351w with 4500 miles. The heads are stock. I was going to get new heads. Cam runs nice, should I change it to a roller or leave it? Street car.

Thats what all of the World has been using the last Half of the last century. I put a Crane Blazer cam in a 67 Firebird & it was probably the fastest car in my school and around Dallas. 400cid bored 30 over, 10.75 compression, edelbrock performer, 750 Holley, 4 speed, Hauled ass.

It's not that people don't want to use flat tappet cams, this issue lately has been that a TON of people even very very reputable machinist and engine builders have been experiencing massive amounts of cam and lifter failure lately, the quality control on the new parts is very poor, so these days it's extremely risky to throw in a new flat tappet cam, but quality on parts lately have been so bad that alot of the aftermarket retro fit hydraulic roller cam lifters have been having issues with bleeding down rapidly and having a ton of clattering noise during normal operating. It seems like the only good options left these days is to either use a solid roller or find a NOS "new old stock" cam and lifter set from back in the day when the parts were still made in USA not overseas.

thank you

question: for a worm cam lobe, is it recommended to get a new Engine due to possible metal debris engine contamination from metal-metal pitting? Or not necessarily?

@RatMaro

3 жыл бұрын

A new engine isn't always necessary. I'd check the oil for obvious glitter and make sure you can get out as much as possible. If there isn't anything substantial a cam swap and new oil could make do and still have a long life. However if there is a considerable amount of metal a tear down and rebuild may be required to make it last. Depends how bad the damage appears.

I have ran these camshafts for years before there were roller camshafts, and most held up fine.

The vast majority of FT cam failures are on the user or builder. All the comments apply, but one thing thar's lost on people is the way guys have their idle too low so they get that "nasty chop". The cam is lubed by oil thrown from the crank. Is the cam getting enough lube from a motor that is barely turning over? Hot cams have high spring pressures, so that "cool" lope isn't helping. Especially on a fresh build...

@scottwheaton9689

Жыл бұрын

Yup! Set my ft camd bbc idle to 950-1k rpm for better cam oiling,better battery charging esp at night with lights on & bit better cooling at idle.

Ive never had a problem with flat tappet cams

Talk to the hand!

Don’t forget the the past: The EPA forced the oil manufacturers to remove most of the zddp from the engine oil, this forced auto manufacturers to use roller lifters on the cams, check or david vizard’s KZread channel, there are some engines that will perform better with flat tappets compared to roller lifter/cams. I run a roller sbc setup, so I’m not a flat tappet fan-boy.

@amateurism1

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/iqiiyaaCgb3RgsY.html

I love them. I take my 1964 Corvette fuelie to 8,500 RPMs all day. Sprint car guys still run them🏁😎

want flat tappet for 390 fe with stock heads what do i need

@johnweaver8470

3 жыл бұрын

I put a mild cam in my 390 years ago and had to put shims under my rocker shaft pedestals, just a head's up with non adjustable rockers

could you run a turbo on a flat tappet motor without many issues?

@RatMaro

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, quite a few people run turbos with flat tappet cams, however usually people with turbo money go roller. But it will still work just fine if setup properly.

@henrysmith8012

2 жыл бұрын

I run an Isky flat tappet with a Procharger. Been running for years with no problems. The power is unreal.

I want to reuse my hydraulic flat tappet lifters on my new cam I’ve heard from people say it’s fine as long as I do the same break in procedures, is that true

@RatMaro

2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't recommend that. Breaking in a cam with old lifters is a pretty quick way to wipe a lobe on a new cam. The lifters that are in your engine now are worn into your current cam and are very likely to fail if you run the same ones. It's possible to get away with but the consequences aren't worth it.

@Herefornow-571

2 жыл бұрын

No

I removed my flat tappet from my 87 f150 351w. The owner before me had neglected the engine on regular oil changes or used oil with low zinc.Lots of build up on cam and lifters but at 108,000 miles the motor still ran decent. I upgraded with gt40 heads with bigger cam and decided to do a total rebuild.Used a new flat tappet because of budget and after all its a 5000 pound truck. Broke in the cam at 2000/2500 rpm I had to shut down at 15 minutes because of a heating issue.I let the motor cool down hooked up a bigger floor fan and went another 15 minutes. Splitting up the break in didn't cause any issues and may be a better way because your giving the cam two heat cycles. Open for comments on my theory.

@thaddacusmaximus6706

2 жыл бұрын

I've got a 96 f150 with a 302. I'm new to engine building, and I want to stick a cam in it and GT40 heads. Do you have any tips?

@stevecooper8121

2 жыл бұрын

@@thaddacusmaximus6706 I used a comp cam part # 35-218-3.This has .456 gross valve lift.Does not need a stall converter.This is a good combination with the gt40 heads.If you have more valve lift the heads won't support the increase air flow. You will have to do a spring update also.You will have to have two different sizes of retainers to make the springs level with each other.Or you could buy new valves but that can run the cost up.There is a small mail order guy who has a good price on springs and retainers.Alex's parts.I would recommend headers.You have EFI and I have a carburetor so I'm not sure about your intake and your emissions control system.

@thaddacusmaximus6706

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevecooper8121 thanks for the tips. Do you have to set lash with hydraulic flat tappets? I live in an emissions exempt county, and on top of that the truck is now 26, so it’s emissions exempt all on its own. I’ll be bypassing/removing as much exhaust/crank case ventilation recirculation systems as I can. I have a chance to talk about my truck now, so I will. I’ve already ran a couple tanks of Marvel’s Mystery Oil and gas mix through it, and now I’m running some Chevron fuel system cleaner through it which fixed the ignition problem (I had to start it up twice. Once to get gas through, then again and it fired right up.) Next up is Sea Foam to clear up as much carbon in the chambers, valves, etc. as possible since I don’t have the GT40 heads yet, so no need to open the block. I’m looking into getting a Lunati Barebones or Voodoo cam, hydraulic flat tappet, to add a bit of power and give her a good sound, but still play nice with the old EFI system. As I asked before, do you have to set lash on hydraulic flat tappets? I figure it’s easier to ask someone than dig through forums for hours. I’ll eventually swap over to a Holly Sniper EFI to run a more aggressive cam, have a manual transmission without worrying about old Ford computers, and have the ability to run a roots style supercharger if I wish to. Once again, I appreciate the tips and hope I don’t break anything too expensive

@stevecooper8121

2 жыл бұрын

@@thaddacusmaximus6706 Yes.Depending on what you are doing with the f150 you might think about using a carburetor and dual plane intake since you are eliminating all emissions. I already had a carburetor but I changed the intake with a Weiand stealth. You could use a Weiand 8020WND stealth.Good to 6800rpm.You can still use the sniper on it. A 750 quick fuel carburetor would be a big cost saving. The money you save can pay for the headers,exhaust, and a air/fuel mixture gauge. I have a air/fuel gauge and this takes all guess work out of adjusting the carburetor. I used 2.5 inch exhaust pipe with 2 chamber Thrush mufflers which sound great and have just enough back pressure. My truck runs mid14 seconds in quarter mile with drag tires. That's with a 3.90 gear, traction bars and a c6 auto tranny. I think it will be faster now with the carburetor issues that I have solved.It was to rich. The flat tappet has a great sound at idle. Do your research on each part you put in the motor because some pieces just don't mesh with each other.

@thaddacusmaximus6706

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevecooper8121 will do. Although I do want to practice working with carbs, I’m willing to put in the extra money for Sniper EFI to not have to tune it since it tunes itself. I’m also not sure if I’d need to install a mechanical pump, or if my electrical pumps would do fine for the carburetor. I have dual tanks. I plan on driving this truck cross country, and I don’t want to have to fiddle with the fuel when I get from the swamps/forests of Texas, where I live, to the Rocky Mountains. I’m pretty sure I’ve got an E4OD transmission (computer controlled automatic) that I’ll be replacing with a manual transmission with overdrive so I won’t have to worry about computers getting upset and quitting. I’ll probably end up throwing gear vendors on it for an even higher highway gear since everything out here is at least a 30 minute drive going 50-70 mph. The money I’m saving by getting a flat tappet instead of a roller is what’s going towards heads, headers, and a tachometer since that’s earlier in my build plans than swapping fueling methods. It’s got 4x4, and weighs less than my uncle’s 2022 Tacoma, so I’ll be taking it off-roading for sure. I’ll definitely see if she rips on the street, but that’s not what I’m building her for. My friend has a Mercedes sedan with a V8. I want to see if I can beat it with spending less money, which shouldn’t be too hard, but that’s just a fun little thing to accomplish along the way. I do plan on buying a bull nose Ford truck that’s near my house or getting a first gen mustang and practice my carb tuning on that just to have it.

I’ve read that even GM, Ford, and Chrysler were having problems with cam flattening on brand new cars. Did THEY not break them in properly?

@Schlipperschlopper

2 жыл бұрын

They bougth crap parts from China

@donaldhill2775

2 жыл бұрын

Spin motors over with compressed air after assembly, take 1 off the line once a week and hot test it,

Is a small block Chevy hydraulic cam the same as a flat tappet cam? Or is a flat tappet cam the same as a solid cam?

@dogshouse1235

Жыл бұрын

Flat tappet cams can be hydraulic or solid (aka mechanical). Same with roller cams.

Im thinking it’s not the cam it’s the oil that has changed. Modern oil dont have zinc just my thought

@RatMaro

3 жыл бұрын

A lot of people do skip this step and blame the manufacturer. I have seen this many times unfortunately.

@robbiefrentz9427

3 жыл бұрын

@@RatMaro I’ve made that mistake. And thought what did i do wrong. And found if you think in the past you can’t grow with the future... times chsnge

@RatMaro

3 жыл бұрын

@@robbiefrentz9427 Its honestly crazy though. I do feel like older cam cores were harder for flat tappets. My father (God rest his soul) really didn't care to add zinc to his flat tappet cams. That Falcon, Camaro and Chevelle in the video all havent had a zinc additive for 20 years plus and still run like a top. However that Blazer has a newer comp XE284H and we did run Zinc in it to make sure it had a life ahead of it haha.

@robbiefrentz9427

3 жыл бұрын

@@RatMaro Now that you mentioned it your probably right. It’s like how you have to torque stuff these days. Even lug studs easily break. Im sure it’s a better system but a-shame you need new head bolts every time

I avoided building an engine with roller lifters because of the stupid high cost for converstion, crazy high lift and short duration. Besides, I've seen lobes wiped out by rollers too.

You recommend comp cams only in sbc and sbf in flat tappet camshaft

@RatMaro

2 жыл бұрын

I personally haven't had any issue with either variant. I hear things about camshafts from comp not being what they used to be. But haven't personally had any issues with them. So I really can't speak on if they're actually bad. I think a lot of people just screw up the break in process personally, but no tests have actually been done to my knowledge to compare cams.

so zinc additive needs to be used all the time? guaranteed lobe wear othwewise? stock car has flat tappets no special oil additives?

@RatMaro

3 жыл бұрын

Zinc is definitely recommended. It's very hit or miss on weather it'll mess up the cam without zinc. I've known people wipe lobes without zinc, but I also have a couple cars that have went 20 years without zinc. So it's a gamble really. But it is 100% recommended. Worth the extra money in oil not to have to pull your engine apart.

@samsonyunited

3 жыл бұрын

@@RatMaro I thought about autoze additive but if I add too much that is apparently not good either. Know of a good 10 40 oil easily obtained with good zink content? I have decat downpipe.

@RatMaro

3 жыл бұрын

@@samsonyunited An additive should be completely fine so long as you follow the specifications on the bottle for how much to add. However Lucas does make a Hotrod and classic oil that is high zinc that comes in 10w40. Believe Amsoil does too.

@LJK69187

3 жыл бұрын

@@RatMaro Amsoil is the Zrod high zinc !!!

Flat tappets actully have a advantage with ramping and Valve opening speeds.. they also have less rotational mass.. that being said.. more friction.

I have a Westerbeke diesel motor in the need of new tappets. I have had zero success in sourcing any and I've checked the internet extensively (other than e-bay where the tappets may be in worse shape than mine). Do you have any suggestions? Can tappets be reconditioned? Know of a company that could that, if possible?

@brettjohnson8009

Жыл бұрын

Are they solid lifters ?

@HWPcville

Жыл бұрын

@@brettjohnson8009 Thanks for your reply. Yes, they are solid. I did source 3 (and purchased) that look excellent even though they are used.

@brettjohnson8009

Жыл бұрын

@@HWPcville There is a fella that does videos on here that can resurface them ,Powell Machine Inc

@HWPcville

Жыл бұрын

@@brettjohnson8009 Thanks alot, I will check them out.

It's funny how people forget that flat tappets we're all there was up until rollers.

Anyone that has problem with flat tappet cam didn't follow break In instructions. And they do make lots of power when set up with intake, carb, headers, compression, ignition system....

The removal of Zinc from motor oils is the main reason for failures

You missed 2 of the most important things when running a flat tappet cam. These 2 points insure your cam will perform correctly.

What about flat cam but with roller hydraulic lifters. I have a Gen 4 454 on a boat I am getting rebuilt right now. Seems to me to be a good and easy upgrade (we all know Gen 5 got the roller lifters). So if the lifters are rolling on the flat tappets realistically you should be removing a good deal of friction and shouldn't be wearing down the lobes and improving efficiency. In turn you should also have a longer life expectancy. What are your thoughts?

@deadcarnahans1932

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting idea. Lobes would not mind less friction but the roller lifters are much longer and would protrude beyond the bores. Oil passages might be blocked, and you would need shorter pushrods.

@emilnazaryan3000

3 жыл бұрын

Well, after studying a little more on the issue I realize that I posted a bit of a stupid question if not a big one. I understand now the true fundamental differences and how you just can't add a roller lifter to a flat cam. BUT wouldn't it be something if somebody can come up with some type of rolling or ball bearing mechanism that could simply be added to alleviate the friction that flat tappets produce. Might be an interesting engineering technological advancement. It's it an answer to a question no one is asking? Perhaps, but sometimes cool stuff gets created that way. In the meantime, I'm going to make darn sure my break-in procedure for my 454 is by the book.

@deadcarnahans1932

3 жыл бұрын

I have never had a fail. Still have several old cams from way back. Hope to use them again someday. Pratt & Whitney used rollers back in the early 40s in the R-2800 and R-4360. Getting the exhaust valve open was a challenge. Combustion pressure against the valve, spring pressure, and negative mechanical advantage of the rocker arm really added up.

Roller cams can be problematic as well. Always get your roller can ground on a steel billet core. Then, you'll never have to worry about can lobes again.

People have been having issues with quality control

comp cams charges $100 to nitride a cam,I dont get it

Talking with a reputable race engine machine shop today. Flat tappet quality has gone downhill. The metal quality is not like it used to be. Chinese metal is good for many parts but not flat tappets.

@AB-80X

Жыл бұрын

If you buy a good set of lifters and a cam, then you won't have Chinese parts. Not entirely sure what's up with that builder. Thing is this. 25-30 years ago people paid 70-100 bucks for a nice set of flat tappet hydraulic lifters. Now people still go out and pay 70-100 bucks for their flat tappet hydraulic lifters - because they and their great grandfather paid for them. They just forget to consider inflation. If you go out and pay 150-200 bucks for a nice set of Howards, Isky or similar lifters, there's zero issue with the quality. But if you think you get the same quality for 100 bucks you got back then, you are sorely mistaken. One thing never changes. Cheap Powerful Reliable Pick two.

@generalsixty2133

Жыл бұрын

@@AB-80X Tool steel or roll the dice. If the box says made in China it doesn’t matter what brand it is. Junk

@AB-80X

Жыл бұрын

@@generalsixty2133 If you buy a Morel, Isky or Howard lifter for example, your box will not say made in China. Same goes with cams. If you buy super cheap stuff, that's on you. Super cheap stuff was crap 30 years ago, and still is.

@generalsixty2133

Жыл бұрын

@@AB-80X Yup, same with TREND tool steel flat tappets for circle track classes or CROWER roller. Low cost Elgin drop in rollers for OEM applications don't fail often, and are assembled in Mexico, North American components.

@Texasmule

Жыл бұрын

No, it's not the cams. It's the lifters, they arnt being crowned right and don't even rotate in the first place

Don't idle it too low and you won't have no problems. Idle too low will beat the lobes to death because it can't get the oil like its designed to. And too tall value covers hurts oiling.

That sbf what size camshaft is that sounds good asf

@RatMaro

3 жыл бұрын

I'm honestly not 100% sure. My father built that car back in highschool. He passed away in March so I dont think ill know unless I pull it or find a cam card. But it is sure nasty!

🐻

I'm thinking of converting my lawn mower over to a roller cam for the performance increase.

Yeah I run solid poor man’s roller lol they make good power 👍🏻

I've been installing oem grind profiles with oem springs and hydraulic lifters since forever and never experienced any problems. Check your lifters carefully, make sure they spin. I confirm spin before installing the intake, chain and rocker arms and then again at startup. My bet is the rash of failed lifters is due to inattention and defective, ill-manufactured parts such as lifters that don't bleed properly or have the wrong convex face. None of the failed reports I've seen have included the parts inspection and preparation process I use, ie: per the factory service manual. procedures. kzread.info/dash/bejne/i6uCmapqp8ebdqw.html

A roller don't have faster ramp speed a solid flat tappet can have faster ramps due to roller wheel tames the rollers luv flat tappets

They just don't make them good anymore.

One thing thats not touched on hardly at all is yes no additive or improper break in can cause a failure but one thing that can wope out a FT bfore you even get a chance to do the break in is not having you vegical sorted at fire up and dickin around with spark, timing or fuel issues and repeatedly cranking and cranking the engine over its like letting it idle but even worse... So if you have a new FT cam and you engine doesnt start right up STOP go over everything make sure its all correct then crank it! Dont crank crank dick with timing pop pop crank crank check fuel yup crank crank pop ohh flip dizzy 180° crank crank oh brake booster hose is not hooked up 1/2" hole of a vaccume leak crank crank batterys dead charge crank vroom skip pop stall... Finally running well it runs it gettin hot lets shut er off and put the rad in.... then running ok and 20 min later not runnin so good and getting worse and hey sounds like a rockers rattling? Ohhh man 2 cam lobes are porked back to square one😫. Ive seen fire ups go this way a few times some times they got lucky and cam made it. go over everything make sure its 100% ready to fire and you maaaay be ok with those chinese FT lifters!

One wiped cam is too many, especially if you're on a budget. $400 or $700 Why risk it. Just go roller and be done

@RatMaro

2 жыл бұрын

My point being in this video is I have never wiped a cam with standard procedure. It's really not a big risk if you follow steps accordingly to break in the cam. Not everyone has money for a roller setup, if they do then they most definitely should go for the roller cam.

Come on buddy,..... whats with the right hand,.... asking for a friend.........

Stop listening to cam companies advice...they can't even tell you the proper way to install them lol. Same goes for oil manufacturers...they have no clue what is needed. Ask and I will give you some useful links.

Flat tappets are a much better solution for street cars than solid rollers. Hydraulic rollers are the best compromise between the two. But, if you only occasionally go to the track, a flat tappet will work just fine. Just be sure to use good brand name lifters. I've been hearing alot of chatter about lifters failing. Especially, no name lifters. Do some research and spend a few dollars more on quality parts.

Explain that the uncle phony

Why Do people buy Comp.crap ?? Those ten to fail eating lifters

Better dont buy chinese crap and comp stuff Elgin is much more reliable and made in USA.

go roller or go home

@derpatime11

4 жыл бұрын

Spoken just like someone who probably can't build their own engine!

@excelerater

4 жыл бұрын

@@derpatime11 I build BBC Nitrous engines and trust me when I say there is not ONE single hard core racer running a flat tappet cam in one single race engine in prob 30 years...Flat tappets are for tow trucks are car cruisers

@derpatime11

4 жыл бұрын

@@excelerater There is nothing wrong with the average Joe using a flat tappet cam to make an improvement on their stock engine. The Nascar cup series used flat tappet cams up until a few years back. Roller cams are better but it can't go without saying if you are building a low buck street car and don't have the money to fork out for a roller you can by all means use a flat tappet. In the video he obviously says roller cams are a better cam design but its not something everyone can afford.

@kevincraig5311

3 жыл бұрын

😂😂

@robbiefrentz9427

3 жыл бұрын

I’ve been a technician for 35 years flat tappets are good and performs fine. Honestly roller is better technology and perform better just like anything. You drive a 1960’s car and then drive a modern car it’s so much better

Waste. Of. Time.

A FT cam yes lasts long time. Yet Im seeing way too many issues that guys are doing scientific diagnose of issues what is occurring. Too many competent ppl having FT issues in last 5+ years makes me very Leary. RC are not immune to issue either yet NO car MFG uses FT anymore, is hotrodders are in a trend now . There is np real compelling reason QC on cam MFG's anymore.