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@dallasarnold8615

25 күн бұрын

You really should have been tracking temperatures of the drinks as well, since the whole point of a cooler is to keep the contents cool/cold. My bet is that the drinks with the water would be colder.

@NuncNuncNuncNunc

14 күн бұрын

1) You should show the temp charts one on top of the other. Much easier to see than reciting numbers. 2) It is not the ice retention that ultimately matters. What's the temperature of the soda? 3) You can take it further and measure soda temps after all the ice has melted and you have the cans either in water or air for a day or more.

@Stacy_Smith

11 сағат бұрын

Frozen water bottles keep the contents cold AND provide something to drink. Also your lunchmeat doesn't get soggy!

A simplified view is to look at the thermal mass. Your constantly losing cold mass in one by draining cold water. Therefore, at any given time, that cooler has less thermal mass and less thermal inertia meaning it's easier to change the temp. Gets hotter faster.

@GeoRedtick

8 ай бұрын

My thought exactly. That is why there was a much bigger difference in the high temperatures of the coolers that the low temperatures especially toward the end. The drain cooler would warm up much more because it didn’t have that thermal mass.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Same train of thought I had.

@newmonengineering

8 ай бұрын

That is exactly my thoughts. It keeps thermal mass and also reduces the surface area where thermal contact of air causing heat transfer exists. It should definitely keep the internal contents cooler longer. One thing he could have done to make it more interesting and realistic is remove say 2 or 3 cans every day simulating actual usage. This would be equal amounts of thermal mass lost per day during normal usage and I wonder how that effects it. But, yes keep the water. One cool thing also would be to add salt to the water. This makes the water denser the ice would likely melt faster but the water should get colder at the same time. Would be an interesting thing to add to the mix.

@michaellowe3665

8 ай бұрын

On the other side, water conducts the heat from the walls to the ice faster than air. If you did this in a non insulated box, the one with water would melt faster. How good your cooler is, makes a difference. Most coolers are probably good enough that keeping the water makes more sense unless you need to carry it.

@fuzzyelm1

8 ай бұрын

Exactly! I thought anyone that ever took a eighth grade science class would know that leaving the water in would make it last longer ! And the better the cooler the more it will be ! It’s simple

It isn’t about ice retention. It’s all about keeping the temperature low.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

I agree with you.

@markjordan2382

7 ай бұрын

Da leftistelf I hope that title doesn’t mean your a leftist! But that would explain that lame answer

@Powerpickle68

7 ай бұрын

Can't keep the temp low without ice.....retain the ice

@jonathansands3304

7 ай бұрын

@@Powerpickle68Sure you can; a cooler full of ice-cold water will keep the temp lower than a cooler full of air with a chunk of ice, as shown by the temps he recorded in the videos.

@ecospider5

7 ай бұрын

I would go 1 step farther. It’s about keeping your mayonnaise and lunch meat cold. And they do not need an average low temperature. They need a guaranteed temperature that stays below 42 degrees. Or those couple hours at 45 degrees and your food has spoiled. With ice water, if you have water and there is still 2 cubes of ice in it that means the entire week the mayonnaise in the water never went above 42 degrees. Do the same test with that temperature sensor in a ziplock bag at the bottom of the cooler and you will see what I mean.

I bet if you measure the temperature of the cans and not air temp the cans stay colder longer in the non drain. Ice melts, you get cold water insulating the cans. In the drained cooler the ice melts you get air around the cans. The goal should be to keep the product cold not to keep ice longer.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

I agree. But both options produce nice and cold sodas for most of the time so 🤷‍♂️

@jollyJedi

7 ай бұрын

This was the question I was looking for

@brianzmek7272

21 күн бұрын

Both are useful for example drain could be better for a one day piknick when being colder is the main point but on a camping trip ice retention is probably the main concern.

@phuul98l

13 күн бұрын

This is what I was checking for. The draining cooler likely had warmer drinks than the left in one, and my goal with the cooler is coldest, not longest as my yeti can keep sodas on ice while inside the car for 10 days. In my soda/beer cooler I will try to add more ice and salt, to keep colder drinks longer, but no salt in food cooler, or one with screw on bottle tops (plastic water bottles).

@justinlabarge8178

8 күн бұрын

​@@brianzmek7272why is ice retention the main concern? What matters is being cold as long as possible. Who cares if there is ice if the cooler warms up faster.

I'd like to see this same test except instead of checking the temperature of the air/water inside of the cooler, you pull out a can of soda when you check, and you measure the temperature of the soda inside the can. Because the whole point of the cooler is to get what ever is inside the can cold, the air temperature is an intermediate part of the process, the fluid inside the can is the final result.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Great suggestion! Thank you.

@juanalejandrosotto6217

8 ай бұрын

The cooler with water will win this, we all know that already. The water serves as better heat exchange that air

@dw734

8 ай бұрын

This is the best test!

@alexsherel3344

8 ай бұрын

And add should add a bit of salt too…seriously…

@alphazero924

8 ай бұрын

@@juanalejandrosotto6217 Except the melted water will be at a higher temperature than the ice which will be in direct contact with the can unlike the air at the top of the cooler which has a whole bunch of other air insulating it from the ice.

As a Ph.D. field geologist and former chemistry teacher, I think the key is all about retaining the lower temperature THERMAL MASS. Meaning, near-freezing ice-melt cold liquid water (remember both coolers started with identical amounts of ice from the same source = same temperature) has more thermal mass than the depleted ice which had the melt liquid removed. And since H2O has such a high heat capacity (meaning it takes a lot of heat energy to warm it up, first to melting and then to ever-warmer liquid), the greater water mass of the undrained cooler will "resist" heat incursion (outside heat, greater than inside, is continuously "creeping into both coolers since heat flows from more to less) longer than the smaller thermal mass of water in the drained cooler. Btw a good way to further extend the cooler's coolness is to wrap the cooler in a mylar space blanket to reduce the amount and rate of outside heat making its way into the cooler. Some exterior heat will "bounce" off the mylar and not burden (warm up) the ice. Many smaller factors are also at work here but are less influential. For example, warm air is sneaking into the drained cooler via its open plug. That cooler would warm up slower if it had been drained often but no fresh warm air allowed back in. Protecting/holding on to the cooler air in a sealed "drained cooler" would be cooler (win!) but still have faaaaar less thermal mass than the undrained ice bath cooler (thus the drained cooler will still warm up faster than the greater thermal mass ice bath.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Can't argue with your CV or your input. Thanks for sharing, great stuff!

@mikeries8549

8 ай бұрын

Gee that's a lot of words.

@Jason608

8 ай бұрын

This makes the most sense to me. I also don't think that the amount of time it takes for all the ice to melt is the correct measurement criteria here as seems to be implied by the video. Your drinks can be colder in a cooler filled nearly to the brim with 33° F water and sealed compared to a cooler that has no water, a mere 2 tiny ice cubes left, and the rest of the cooler has 50° F air in it because the cap is off and outside air has infiltrated the box! I don't think both sides are correct here.

@LuigiMordelAlaume

15 күн бұрын

By far the best, most comprehensive answer. No one else seemed to consider things like specific heat capacity or ambient heat entering the drain hole. A+ to the teacher 😊

@BillLaBrie

11 күн бұрын

That’s swell. But if you’re keeping anything in the cooler besides cans and bottles, you’re going to want to occasionally drain it, because water will get into your meat and cheese and pot roast and whatever and ruin it. So in a practical way, it can be essential to drain the cooler and accept the loss of cooling retention.

as a mechanical engineer with many year in industrial refrigeration I would note ge following 1 Define What Want I would recommend a target of a beverage at 45F or cooler 2 Measure Directly Make a soda filled can with a probe inside 3 Comps What you are looking to measure is How Long each method can maintain the target temp. Fundamentals there are 2 key components of heat (or cold) in water: Specific heat and Latent heat of fusion. Latent heat of fusion is much larger in general. In theory you would retain the water until the bath gets near the target temp, then dump all the water

Would've been great if you measured the temp of one of the drinks from each cooler at different stages. Because we don't use coolers to watch ice melt.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Haha, ya I guess that's just me. Noted, thanks!

@ChrisGramm

8 ай бұрын

@@outdoorempirecom I'm not complaining though. It was fascinating and I was rooting for the "leave the plug in" cooler.

@Mrmisterrs

7 ай бұрын

If you've got ice in your cooler all liquid is about 33 degrees, now if youve got glass it may affect retention but it'll still be right above freezing until all ice melts

@jasonmansfieldsr8645

7 ай бұрын

Regarding the 12:00 “it’s not really clear cut…”: I’ll say it is clear cut. That ice and water are colder than the warm air that rushes in when you open the cooler or that replaces the cold water you have allowed to drain out. That water has an enormous thermal capacity in relation to air, even more when you consider that the water is already cold and the air is warm. Cold water takes a lot more heat to warm it up than air does and so it will take much more time to allow the cooler to warm up. But if it’s your cooler, you do what you want. As a guest, I’ll do my best to honor the wishes of the host, and as a host I expect the same of my guests. Even if we have differing ice retention philosophies. 😂

@ecospider5

7 ай бұрын

@Mrjizzonyourface2 Melted ice water sinks as it warms up until it hits 39.2 degrees. So the bottom of the cooler is between 39 and 40 degrees. This is why fish are always at the very bottom of a frozen lake. It’s the warmest spot.

One potential flaw in your test is that you left the cap off the entire time on the drain. If you would have drained 4 times a day which would allows the cap to stay on most of the time and therefore not allowing the introduction of higher outside air temperature at all times would make a difference I would imagine. You should do the test again!! 😂😂

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Or maybe 6 times per day? Or 10? Or 2? I'm rather convinced that any minor adjustment like that would only marginally change the outcome, if at all. And then the ice is sitting in water more anyway so wouldn't it be even closer to the same result as retaining water from the start? I think I'll just move on with my life. 😂

@WayneTheSeine

8 ай бұрын

I agree but with different reasoning. Occasionally draining the water, say, when you open it once a day but then closing the drain should make a difference because with the drain always open it allows the cool air, which you paid for in melted ice, to stream out of the drain....cold air being heavy, the cold air will definately leave the chest. This negates the advantage air has over water as pointed out by the scientist. As a caveat, fishermen will likely tell you NEVER leave fish in water if there is ice left in the chest.

@susanvanhouten8307

8 ай бұрын

I agree. My mom accidentally left a drain plug partially open on an rtic cooler. Her ice was in the form of frozen bottles that could not drain. After the first day, I noted that her ice was melting faster than it should have been. I then noticed the drain plug. Since the drain plug was half unscrewed. The cold air was venting out and being replaced with warmer air. Also, if their isn't a tight seal to trap the cold, it is possible you won't get the same seal on the lid, which is caused by the different air pressures present inside and outside of the cooler.

@robertm7554

8 ай бұрын

I was thinking the same thing. The cooler isn’t sealed, it has a hole in it and is letting hot air into the cooler. You need to rig the drain with fish tank clear tubing or something like that. However that being said, I realize the test you did is for everyday yahoos drinking beer in their back yard etc. therefore your test is more real world

@johndavidtackett

8 ай бұрын

I was just about to suggest that too 😂 although I am confident leaving it is best but I bet it’ll be much closer if you drained it then closed it up so the air cannot continually exchange particularly during the heat of the day…

I fill empty juice bottles with water and freeze them. I don’t know if it keeps things colder, but the ice seems to last longest that way and my stuff doesn’t get wet.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Great idea!

@johnswanson3741

8 ай бұрын

It is not as dense of an ice freeze, and subsequently does not last quite as long as a store bought block of ice. But I do the same just because I am so cheap and it works well enough in most cases for short jaunts.

@thechumpsbeendumped.7797

8 ай бұрын

@@johnswanson3741 In what way is it not as dense? To all intents and purposes water and ice is incompressible so it’s density is the same. Where you’ll get some difference is that a couple of juice boxes does not have the same surface area as a many small cubes and so would be less efficient at keeping the whole container cool.

@thechumpsbeendumped.7797

8 ай бұрын

I always use unopened milk, juice and water containers (stuff me and my family can drink) if I needed the cooler to remain at a safe temp for several days. I never saw the point in taking refilled containers coz they take up too much space and we wouldn’t drink them. I always make sure the first days drinks were only chilled prior to placing in a separate plastic bag inside the cooler so we could easily identify the ones to consume first.

@traybern

7 ай бұрын

FREEZE the JUICE!!

This video was a lot cooler then I expected.

@outdoorempirecom

17 күн бұрын

I see what you did there.

The temp just under the lid is of little importance, what you need to know is if your food is being kept in the safe zone so that bacteria is not multiplying dangerously. As such the thermometers would have been better placed lower in the coolers, either at the bottom or attached to a can. To make it fair I’d have placed both probes in saucers of water at the bottom so that they were measuring the temp of the water retained in them.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Great idea, I'll keep that in mind for future tests. Thanks!

@danielbanks7500

7 ай бұрын

You know food at the top of the cooler where the water was drained was not as cold as the cooler with water. The air temp plays a bigger role there. If you keep the food submerged in the water in water tight packaging the difference will substantially more as the water temp stays below the air temp. In the end that is why I am using a cooler, to prevent bacteria. How long the ice lasts is in itself a stupid discussion unless your cooler is ONLY for drinks.

@thechumpsbeendumped.7797

7 ай бұрын

@@danielbanks7500 There was no food at the top of the container. Other than that I think you’re agreeing with what I said, unless I’m misunderstanding you.

@danielbanks7500

7 ай бұрын

@@thechumpsbeendumped.7797Yes, I do agree with you. If that were my cooler there would be food in there as well. On a purely drink cooler it isn't as relevant.

@amelliamendel2227

12 күн бұрын

Maybe a time lapse with a even thermometer in each

Very simple. Mass retains temperature. The draining water removes mass AND cold. The absence of cold leaves what? Thanks for your time involved in this experiment...........Be well.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Great point. You're welcome and thanks for watching!

This was an interesting experiment and I thank you for making the content. Having said that, I think it was a flawed experiment. I took Physics in High School back in 1972 when you could still receive a decent public school education in most cities. I also had some physics classes at the college level while serving my Industrial Maintenance apprenticeship, right after High School, again, back when education seems to have been done better, so I'm not an expert, but I was a good student that paid attention because he believed that there really was a "permanent record" and was therefore a geek. I remember learning, in the "thermodynamics" section of my courses, that when ice at 32 degrees turns into water at 32 degrees it will absorb about 80 calories of heat per gram from its surroundings to do so. It's called the latent heat of fusion and it simple means the extra calories given off to turn water to ice or absorbed to turn ice back into water. No temperature change takes place while this is happening. For the record, there is a similar thing going on when water turns to steam and is the reason steam burns you worse than boiling water. Sorry for the digression, but I did warn you that I was a geek. At any rate, that heat is absorbed from whatever is in contact with the ice. In your cooler that would be the cans of pop and the air. Every material has a differing ability to transfer and absorb and retain heat energy and that is called its "specific heat". The aluminum surrounding the pop is a very good conductor of heat (that's why they marketed, well before your time, the first aluminum beer cans as "quick chill cans") and soda is mostly water, which is also a good conductor when compared to the only other thing in the cooler, which is the air. The latent heat of fusion isn't the only thing that the ice has going for it. Even after the ice has melted the water, still at 32 degrees, has plenty of ability to continue to absorb heat until it reaches an equilibrium with its surroundings. The transfer slows as that equilibrium approaches, but it is still SOME transfer. When you let that water out it ceases to make contact with the cans of soda and and it can no longer suck the heat from the can and it is being replaced by warm air on top of that. And here is the flaw in your experiment. I don't know about you, but I couldn't care less about the temperature of the air inside my cooler, which is what you were measuring. I am rather more interested in the temperature of the stuff I've been trying to chill in the ice in the cooler and how long it stays at an acceptable temperature ( I like my beer at about 36 degrees, for instance) You should have been measuring the temperature of your sodas, not the air in the cooler. Since you were letting a great deal of the cooling potential out the drain hole, I'm certain that once all the ice was gone in both coolers you would have found the contents of the cans in the sealed drain cooler to be colder and would have remained so for much longer as the pops in the other cooler quickly warmed up. It took a certain amount of energy to make the ice and in one cooler you used all that energy to chill the contents and in the other you let a substantial amount of that energy cool the dirt outside the drain plug. Maybe you could get some additional content by restructuring your experiment to test the contents of a can of pop from each cooler every 8 -10 hours while there is still ice and then onward as they warm up. Again, thanks for the content because I'm too lazy to make any myself. LOL

@johnswanson3741

8 ай бұрын

Common sense to me, why do people drain ice cold water out of their coolers? Mainly to keep certain items from getting wet and soggy.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Thanks for taking the time to leave that insight! Indeed, that would be a swell improvement to the test. A bit more challenging logistically, but' Im sure I could figure something out. Cheers!

Your drinks will stay colder in ice water.

@chuckschillingvideos

7 күн бұрын

Nope. They get cold faster because they are surrounded by the water, but once they are at their lowest temp they will stay colder in ice.

@glennlavalle9807

7 күн бұрын

​@@chuckschillingvideosyou are kidding I hope.

The melted ice has a much higher thermal mass than air so it is going to slow the rate of the temperature change. Often times it is best to drain the cooler because it makes it easier to carry and you are only using your cooler for a day or two.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Great point!

One possible issue with this experiment is the thermometer is located on the lid, not where the drinks are. The draining cooler has more air, thus more room for hot air to accumulate. I wonder if having the thermometer measure the temp of the beverages themselves would show different results? Regardless, thank you doing this important experiment, I have argued about this too many damm times!

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Ya that would have been interesting to have another thermometer in there. I'm sure the actual readings would be different (lower) closer to or in the ice, but I'm quite confident that the relative changes would be similar.

@brendykes1202

4 күн бұрын

I’d rather eat food that maxed out 7 degrees cooler. At that point, it’s not about comfort. It’s about not eating spoiled food & getting sick.

Bottom line is I bet the Cokes in your ice bath/water cooler are a lot colder than the cans in the cooler with dry, cube ice. I would guess the water transmits temperature more efficiently to aluminum cans, or a gallon jug of milk, than air.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Not a bad guess! I can say that can of Coke I popped open at the end of the video was still cold enough to be enjoyable (though not as cold as I love) and it was bobbing in the water left in the non-draining cooler whose ice had all melted the day before.

@mike1why

8 ай бұрын

😂 That would be the point of keeping the drinks in the cooler. I care f*** all about how much ice I saved to sell to the natives.

@mrcryptozoic817

8 ай бұрын

You're right. What is the average temperature of all those Cokes? The drained on clearly has Coke in 55° air. The others are 80 to 90% submerged in cold water. The mass and density of water wins.

@alphazero924

8 ай бұрын

I mean, you'd be wrong. The water would be insulating the cans *from* the ice rather than helping to transfer the heat. With the drained cooler, the cans stay in direct contact with the ice which will keep them colder.

@mike1why

8 ай бұрын

@@alphazero924 It would be silly to guess. Put some ice in the chest and take the temperature of the drinks both ways. You'll find that for the wet case, the water and drinks are both very near 32 degrees. The dry case will be much warmer in comparison.

The most simple view: think of trying to boil water. The more water you have the longer it takes to boil. The more mass you have the longer and more energy it takes to change that temp

@outdoorempirecom

Ай бұрын

I like what you're saying.

Ask any chef : 40F to 140F for 4hrs - your food ( meat, milk etc) was spoiled by that standard by day 4 - any food stored for 4 hrs between 40F and 140F should be thrown out ( commercially) , personally , you could probably double that time but only if cooking well - because bacteria grows exponentially

Both. We put a foam sub-cooler with meat inside into our main unit .The smaller sub-cooler has 4" of foam by itself. Sub-cooler meat starts out frozen solid. We move what's needed for the next day to the undrained space outside the sub after putting it inside a ziploc so it is ready for the grill or stove. This approach approximates a freezer and refrigerator juxtaposition.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Brilliant! Very clever system you've got going on.

Not really, the ice will melt at 32F and water contacting the ice will also be 32F. The ice being less dense will begin floating on the water that is forming. The water will initially remain at 32F and as more water forms under the ice, the coldest water being denser than the warmest water on top will sink to the bottom, starting a natural circulation that will continue until the ice melts. What you are missing is the fact that the water remaining is cold, probably averaging about 33F. Why would you throw that water away? If you start with 10lbs of ice ultimately you will have 10lbs of water, but it will be only slightly above the 32F melting point. The temperature differential between say 33F water and an average of 80F outside air temperature is 47 degrees X 10lbs= 470 BTUs of cooling potential remaining in the water. This is the equivalent to melting another 3lbs of ice. How long that lasts would be determined by the thermal gain (insulation) of the cooler. PS: You should have been measuring the temperature of the Coke can nearest the center of the cooler, the air temp meant very little. Hope this makes sense, I'm really sleepy!

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

That is awesome feedback, huge thanks for sharing! I wish I could have had a phone call with you before I did this test.

@doubledrats235

28 күн бұрын

Great explanation (I am a mechanical engineer). As I said in a previous response to this video, I would have measured what is being stored (cans of liquid drinks and wrapped food). Since it’s important to keep the food dry I would keep it in a separate drained cooler or in a sealed container (Tupperware?) on top of the floating ice and cans.

I'm of the camp that replacing cold water with warm air causes the ice to melt faster, but I'm interested in seeing how this turns out.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Yep, seems to be a common thread.

The only time that I would recommend letting the water drain is when meat from a wild game harvest is being stored in a cooler until it can be processed. I’ve been processing wild game meat for over 10 years, it makes a huge difference in the quality of meat if it’s been stored soaking in icy water, or packed in ice with less water retention.

Thank you for answering a trivial question I have had but never before disturbed enough to seek an answer.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

You're most welcome. Thank you for watching a video about a question that has very little consequence on your quality of life when you surely could have sought better entertainment elsewhere. 😂

Nice video. If you really want to see the benefit of keeping the water in the cooler, try removing some cold drinks and replacing them with uncooled drinks. As long as the water is significantly cooler than the drinks you are putting in, the drinks will cool faster when surrounded by water than when surrounded by air.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Well said!

@SmallSpoonBrigade

8 ай бұрын

Yes, the only time to remove the water is when you want to lighten the cooler for transport or to clear space for more ice. There's no benefit at all to removing the water other than that until it gets warm enough that it's no longer keeping the items in the cooler cool.

Depends on the application. If you're using the cooler for drinks and sealed food products, don't drain it. If you want to avoid water intrusion into food items or want to have ice available for use in drinks and such, drain it. There's a reason why AC and heating units pull out the moisture in the air to effect temperature changes. Moisture, humidity retain thermal conditions.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Good point!

@TrentTationnaiseXization

8 ай бұрын

I dont know of any heating or cooling devices that purposely collect moisture.

@williamfuller2389

8 ай бұрын

@@TrentTationnaiseXization Why, then, do AC units often have drain outlets built in to dispose of collected moisture? That's not freon that's being separated from the ambient air. It's water condensation being drawn out.

@TrentTationnaiseXization

8 ай бұрын

@@williamfuller2389you are right. it's a byproduct that's dumped contributing nothing to the system.

@slinky159

8 ай бұрын

@@williamfuller2389 because condensation is an unavoidable consequence of cooling air below its dew point. It actually releases a lot of energy (heat) when water condenses so not all applications actually want to use even more energy to move all that extra heat.

I'll simplify: With the drain plug open you're replacing the cold ice water with warm outside air constantly. Ice water is obviously colder than outside warm/hot air. Also, heat rises, cold falls. So even the ice-cooled air inside the cooler will be "pouring" out the open drain plug and warm outside air will be rising in to replace it. So basically you should leave the water in unless you're concerned about something in the cooler getting wet. If you're going to drain it then you should only do it occasionally instead of leaving it uncapped constantly.

I think the most amazing thing is how great those Coleman coolers worked

@outdoorempirecom

5 күн бұрын

I think so too!

I've done both for decades. My bottom line is drain for food and don't drain for drinks. The thermal mass of cold water is great for retaining steady temps, but the inner surface of the cooler is in 100 percent contact with 5 out of 6 sides of that thermal mass where drained ice has air between the nuggets. So that from my experience evens things out. Your results are on point. For drinks, that thermal mass can keep ALL the drinks in the cooler at the same cold temperature longer. But difference is often not worth the hassle that a big cooler full of heavy sloshing water can create. For food? Is there anything worse than a leaky zip lock bag of ham full of water? Yes! A leaky zip lock bag of cheese full of water. No thank you. This is why I drain food coolers. Measuring the air temperature at the top of the cooler is pretty much, but not totally worthless. That's not where the drinks or the food are. Hot air rises, cold air sinks. My best recommendation for any cooler is to keep them off the ground and out of the sun. I get insulated foam sheathing board at the local home center and cut out the foot print of the cooler to set them on, which helps quite a bit, but even setting the cooler on a couple of wood strips will go a long way. Setting a cooler on concrete, dirt, or sand is a bad idea if ice retention is the goal. This is only a big issue if you are going out for long periods. An extra bag or two of ice can sometimes be a better expense than a cooler that costs many times more, especially if you are only on a 3 day trip.

@ecospider5

7 ай бұрын

Soggy cheese does suck. But without the water you can not guarantee that the lunch meat is safe to eat. Water with a single cube of ice in it has not been warmer than 40 degrees. Which is the food safe temperature of a refrigerator. If you put that lunch meat in a cooler that is draining the lunch meat is going to get above 45 degrees at some point each day. Which will cause the lunch meat to spoil faster.

Just started watching this. I would think that leaving the drain valve open would allow cold air to leave and be replaced by warm air.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

That's probably true to an extent. Though I'm not convinced draining only periodically would have made much of a difference given over a whole week the difference here was only a few hours.

Depends on how often the cooler will be opened, as the water will help the cooler retain and recover after the lid is opened. I would run a test opening the cooler often vs seldom. And then compare the 2 coolers. The one with more air will not only let more thermal mass escape, but potentially the open plug at the bottom will also facilitate the loss of cold air each time it is opened. Each time it is opened, the ice has to melt a little (more) to return the air to equilibrium.

Over the summer, I had my 30th HS reunion. Rest of my family couldn't make it, so I went solo, and just kept a cooler in the car. I also kept my snacks in the cooler. Among them: a pack of hard candies. They were NOT water tight. Basically, if you have anything other than well-sealed containers, don't drain it. If you have just pop...leave it.

I misread the title and thought it said the truth about dating your cooler

Talk about missing the forest for the trees, who cares when there is no more ice or if there’s a little bit of ice left, not draining kept the inside at what ended up being a pretty significant difference at the end. And I’ll tell you in Phoenix it does matter, the drinks would be warm in a day or two if you let the water drain out. Also you didn’t even touch on the real reason why not to let the water out and even why it had less ice but remained colder and it had nothing to do with replacing air or insulating the ice. Water has an enormous potential for absorbing heat. Its one of the best heat sink materials because it absorbs so much. So for the same reason it melted the ice quicker is why it kept the contents cooler is because it sucked up all the potential energy. In Phoenix we add more ice after the original ice melts because we want as much water in a cooler as possible and melting ice just makes room for more.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Great input, thanks for taking the time to share!

What I’ve always done. Cooling bottled or canned drinks, leave water in. Cooling foods like sandwich meat, condiments, cheeses, meats. Then I drain to prevent water from entering the food packaging.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

That is a very practical approach, I like it!

You should have put a temp sensor in a bottle of the liquid because the whole point of a cooler is to keep drinks cool the longest, not preserve ice. The sodas in the drained cooler would have been much warmer than the non-drained cooler. The reason is due to the mass of water vs. air.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Yep, that's my assumption as well.

I try to use as much solid ice as possible, I’ll freeze some gallons and then use them for drinking. I also use a small liquid hand pump to remove water whenever I am about to add more ice. I use the pump because I don’t have to remove the cooler from my car to get the water to drain. HaborFreight or Amazon have the pump I use, it looks like a short bicycle pump , comes with hoses and is very inexpensive. Because I’m camping out of a Prius I don’t want water spilling or leaking onto the battery I make a “bathtub” out of a tarp, and tape it around the cooler with just the lid exposed. Which makes it hard to access the drain plug. I also get a sheet of rigid foam insulation and sandwich pieces between the cooler and tarp on five sides, with another piece the size of the lid just left laying on top with a towel or moving blanket covering it. My 90L igloo works great like this, it’s big enough to pack a lot of ice and keep the ratio of ice to items high. The added insulation seems to help a lot and the cooler stays put, so if it cools where it is sitting in the car you don’t disturb it and lose whatever slight advantage it gives. I’m packed up and heading to the mountains in NC for some backpacking and car camping. Sometimes I am just a short hike in from the car and I can return daily with a smaller cooler to retrieve my daily allotment of beer. Having a large well insulated cooler at the car means I don’t have to leave my spot for a long time. Less driving and more enjoying the outdoors Thanks for the video, well done!

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

That's fantastic, quite the system you've got going! Enjoy the mountains this week!

@radioactivelight

7 ай бұрын

My ice lasted better than 6 days. I never had to go into civilization for anything. It was a fantastic adventure I was still drinking cold beer on the 9th day. I wish I could share pictures on KZread

Amazing video. Surprised to see the channel doesn't have even 100k yet! Big channel quality content.

@outdoorempirecom

9 күн бұрын

Tell your friends. And thank you!

Interesting. So, draining the water helps to retain the ice itself, but keeping the water keeps your food/drinks colder longer. Thanks for the info.

The ultimate question would be: “how cold is the contents in a coke can at the end of each day?”, since keeping the contents of the cooler coldest the longest is the ultimate goal.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Indeed. I should have drunk a coke from both every day and shared how delightful it was. 😂 But really, I could have taken more temps for sure. I figured one continuous read of internal temps would correspond pretty well to the temps of the contents, at least relatively.

@m2pmd70

8 ай бұрын

I'm betting you would have seen a bigger difference in the temp of the sodas than the air in the coolers after the first day or so.

The ice retention test that started the drama 👉 kzread.info/dash/bejne/fGSCx85sZZTZkso.html NEW ice retention test with 38 coolers! 👉 kzread.info/dash/bejne/hp19spiDfNifesY.html The cheap cooler I used for this test is actually pretty great! amzn.to/3RtU0AS (affiliate link, FYI)

@johnmuricasmith8641

8 ай бұрын

Third variable add: add a few cups of salt to the ice in the cooler. Guaranteed to make ice last longer and water cooler than 32 degrees.

@randyross5630

8 ай бұрын

Forethought: Cold Goes Down, so the Freezing Air should escape out the Bottom as much as the Ice Water will Drain out...

@randyross5630

8 ай бұрын

You Need to do the Test Again, but Drain One Cooler once or twice a Day and Immediately Cap it when the water runs light to not let any air escape, the Cold Air that goes to the Bottom Escaped out the Constantly Open Drain on the Bottom.

@AzraelThanatos

8 ай бұрын

One thing to also consider is the drip drain compared to draining it regularly, but keeping it closed. I'm not sure about the mechanism, but the drain might open up a gap in the insulation when it's open and create a difference of its own

@deepinthought469

7 ай бұрын

try with block ice, frozen gallon jugs, snow loose fill, snowballs packed neatly, and maybe try one of those 12v peltier coolers to see if it makes any kind of difference, and try some dry ice for fun...

Great test! You brushed on this at the end of your vid, but I’d say Arctic who said to drain water and add fresh ice if possible (but to leave water in if you couldn’t add ice) should have been called a DEFINITE “don’t drain” score, since under your conditions they clearly said not to drain. Of course it’s obvious if you can drain the melted water and replace the ice, that’s going to give the best result, and I think all the cooler companies would agree with that. Love how a simple real world test usually trumps craploads of theories. Great idea!!!

the reason why draining was resulting in higher temperature is because the open hole in the cooler is allowing some kind of air transfer from the wind blowing, cycling the air inside the cooler. if you had done this inside a place where there was no wind, such as inside a garage, you might have different results.

Convective heat loss is greater through water than through air. Ergo, the opposite is true in the retention of cold because water is denser than air and retains cold longer than air. Trust me bro. I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Say no more. I'd trust you with my life.

@YankeeWoodcraft

8 ай бұрын

😆😆😆😆😆@@outdoorempirecom

Thank you for making this video

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Thank YOU for watching!

Another thing to consider is that water in its liquid state has a very high specific heat capacity (in fact twice as much as it does when solid). Not only does this help cool the air within the vessel better, it also slows the process of melting ice, so the contents stay cooler longer too.

So, what I have done for more than 20 years is I will freeze 1 gallon jugs and will add ice on top of that. Works great for a long weekend. Any meat will stay frozen until ready to use in upper baskets. Rarely need to add ice. Rtic 65 is what I’m currently using.

Growing up, ice was sold in a single solid block for a lower price than "party ice" like you used. Mom used to do as others have mentioned, and freeze her own blocks for our cooler. I would question the "is it better" solid block vs party ice :)

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Party ice, I love that! Indeed I would expect block ice to do better, but unfortunately a lot of block ice you buy these days is just compressed party ice. However just this week I bought some ice directly from a local ice company for another video I'm working on and they also sell clear block ice in 50 pound and up to 300 pound blocks! That clear ice, I suspect, will last the longest since it doesn't have a bunch of air trapped inside like other ice you buy.

@billpetersen298

8 ай бұрын

Block ice, lasts way longer.

@barongerhardt

8 ай бұрын

The increased surface area of party ice will exchange heat faster. As such, if the test is which will cool faster, it will be party ice. It will also melt faster. If the question is which provides more total cooling, they will be the same (assuming using same mass of ice).

@UnlikelyToRemember

15 күн бұрын

If you have the room in your home freezer, fill plastic milk jugs about 95% full and freeze them. Block ice AND the melt water stays contained so you don't ruin something in the cooler due to an imperfect ziploc seal.

@chuckschillingvideos

7 күн бұрын

Block ice doesn't cool nearly as efficiently as crushed ice. Period. When you crush ice, you massively increase the surface area available for heat transfer. So the air being cooled with block ice doesn't get nearly as cold, nor as quickly as that with crushed ice. The reason your beloved block ice lasts so long is because it isn't doing much cooling.

Water with ice in it will be 32 degrees. So the water in the ice chest will be 32 while the air above will measure a higher temperature due to heat rising. Theoretically if you fill the chest completely, no air should keep the chest colder for longer.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Ah, right you are. If only theory translated to camping trips. 😂

@chuckschillingvideos

7 күн бұрын

No, that's not true. Just because there is *some* ice in water doesn't mean the temperature of the water is 32 degrees.

RTIC is absolutely right. Drain the water and replace with fresh ice at every opportunity. Also, a couple more points: 1) Endeavor to make the food and beverages as cold as possible BEFORE you put them in the cooler. If you put warm items into a cooler, a great deal of ice mass will be wasted just getting it to temp. If your food items can safely be frozen, freeze them before you put them in the cooler. 2) Put the food and beverages in FIRST, then put the ice on top of them. Ice on top will provide a thermal barrier from the warmer air above.

For any given cooler if your goal is to keep the contents as cold as possible for as long as possible three principles should be followed: 1. Pre chill the cooler 2. Pre chill the food, beverage, bait or whatever else you will be storing in the cooler. 3. Fill the cooler with the coldest ice you can get. Ice melts at 32°F, but the bag/block of ice that you place in the cooler have a temperature of 31° or -20° or any other temperature lower than 32°. The colder the ice starting out the longer it will take to melt. So not all bags of ice are equal.

Duh Add salt for best performance.

It's simple, if you let cold water drip out, that amount of "cold" is lost.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Excellent summary.

@johnswanson3741

8 ай бұрын

Common sense

The article referenced is interesting... because as you get colder air and colder water the difference in the ice retention minimizes until you hit around 32 F (0 C) assuming pure water and at sea level, at which point there is is no more water... just ice.

The same reason ice melts faster in water is the same reason you want your drinks in ice water.

It has been a long time since I've been to any event that had a cooler. So I'm most impressed by the fact the the ice lasted a week. I thought it would melt within a day. Very simple but well done test.

Yup, liked and subbed. Love in depth comprehensive videos like this.

@DCTriv

20 күн бұрын

Not very comprehensive imo. Didn't really measure loss of thermal mass, temperature of the water, or temperature of the product being cooled.

@outdoorempirecom

9 күн бұрын

Thanks for the sub!

Middle of summer, Central Florida. Company BBQ lunch with a cooler packed with Ice / water and soda cans, stored and left outside, undrained.... Day and a half later, soda is still cool and refreshing. That's all the science I need on the subject.

@outdoorempirecom

7 ай бұрын

Gotta love that science!

I am 48 years old live in southeast US and I have worked outdoors my entire life and I can promise you that if you will drain your ice chest daily but leave 2 or 3 in of water in the bottom when filling it with ice in the mornings you will have the best results.

Very nice, concise, well explained, and thorough

Thank you for this, love the science!

Mechanical engineer here. I'm making this comment before I watch. I say it depends on the volume of ice to be melted and the thermal insulation, but for the vast majority of scenarios I can conjure, leaving the water in ought to stabilize the temperature better than air would. Although air has greater thermal resistance, water has greater thermal capacity by volume by a large factor, so unless theres a thermal sink, the water will have the advantage. This is partially also why we use liquid cooling in PCs and such. The thermal capacity, meaning how much energy it costs to raise or lower the temperature, of water is high relative to basically everything else, so it is a great material for both heat transfer and heat retention.

That's what i loved about the ROVR it stores the water in lower chamber away from ice keeping your dry chamber colder.

I figured out if I fill a freezer bag 1/4 the way full and let it freeze flat I end up with perfect ice blocks and there's never any mess. I lined the floor and walls with them and covered the food and put in a little refrigerator ice. I was glad that open containers didn't get wet. I've had good success and still using the same bags!

What rtic said was exactly what i was going to say from my experience living in a van with a cooler. Drain and replace with ice if possible, keep the water if not. I like to put 8 or so cans at the bottom and put things that you want dry on top, as the ice melt the items will sit on the cans above the water and stay fairly dry. Also buy block ice when you can!

As an IT systems administrator, I would say the only reason I would drain the melt water off would be to make it esier to grab drinks and loose ice from the top.

One of the biggest problems in this test. Is you did not have a third cooler. This cooler you drain the water but you reseal the plug after you drain it. So one test you have the water continuously draining. The second test you drain the water periodically and then reclose the drain. In the final test you leave it closed.

Thanks. This question has bugged me for decades. Interesting to find out it didn't make much difference.

So, the true takeaway is for food safety, you should leave the water for maximum food cooling. Since it's the content of the cooler - not the air - that you're trying to preserve. Thanks for the information 👍

I never knew coolers were so complicated. Glad I didn't waste a lot of time overthinking it.

@outdoorempirecom

9 күн бұрын

I'm glad you didn't also. I sure did.

Ice with water only has the surface area of the top exposed, while the drained cooler has tons more surface area between the ice cubes.

Things I learned. Canyon Cooler has a representative who doesn't understand basic thermal dynamics :) RTIC I think had it right on. I would not have given their comment a point to drain as they were more of a replace than what your experiment was.

Its definitely something interesting to think about. With water being retained, there is less overall volume of air that would also need cooled vs letting the water drain and replacing that volume with ambient temperature air.

Great attention to detail. Thanks

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

No problem! Thanks for watching.

I wonder if you just drained water in intervals instead of leaving drain plug open the whole time it would be any different? Not letting air in 24-7. Love the video!

I think it's pretty simple in practical application. I usually carry 2 coolers for long trips, a 125 qt full of ice that serves as an ice bank or ice donor, Wich I constantly drain, because I just want ice to last longer to refill the smaller, 50qt cooler, where I keep my drinks and food cold, and that cooler doesn't get drained as often. That works awesome for my 7-8 days fishing trips out in the middle of nowhere

I always keep the melted ice water in my cooler because when you add drinks they cool down much faster because of the greater thermal transfer. Drinks in ice water have 100% thermal contact. Drinks in ice with no water have some contact with ice and some with air. Water is 25 X better than air at conducting heat. Plus you maintain a larger thermal mass.

Thanks for the video. I drain the cooler on my motorcycle trailer, when in motion. I don't want the water sloshing back & forth, causing me to loose control of my New Trike! In my Jeep I Don't drain my cooler, I don't want wet floors.

So, when water touches ice, it melts the ice. And obviously, ice does not turn your water back into ice. So, what I've done, is buy a cheap cooling rack that fits in the bottom of my cooler. I use some bolts and washers as feet and place it into the bottom of my cooler making sure it sits about 1 - 2 inches above the bottom of the cooler. Then load the cooler as normal. This adds a day or two of ice to all of my coolers. I also tape the top inside of the lid with foil (reflective), but I don't know how much that helps. It's an easy weekend project. Cheers

I'm a physicist and like to think about limiting cases. So if i am thinking about this, I would vary the size of the drain. If I had a cooler that was made of wire mesh (a really dumb cooler design, do not recommend) the ice would melt really fast. As we replace mesh with real cooler, the time until ice melts should increase. One other thing to consider is that in the "do not drain" cooler, you want to know when the remaining water is the same temperature as the air in the cooler. Even at that point, cold/cool water has some cooling benefit. If you did a similar experiment where you chilled the coolers and beverages, and just put water in one cooler with the beverages, and only put beverages in the other cooler, the "water + beverages" cooler would stay cooler longer than the "beverages only cooler"

When i go fishing for numerous days and keep fish i always leave the water in and ive always had it last longer colder

I will continue to do what i always have. Keep the drain plug closed and drain if needed to prevent food from getting wet. Depening on ice level, drain all the water out before i load up to head home so its easier to transport.

Good video. One thought I had is that the draining cooler will be sucking in ambient warmer air as the colder water drains out. My gut tells me this would be the main factor in the higher temps and larger than the effect of air vs water in contact with the ice. I'm just guessing though

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Good point.

We used to go on extended camping trips... the knd where each guy took a case of beer for each day we camped. Our best results were to never drain until new ice was added, always keep a few inches of water in the bottom to quickly chill added beer, and ultimately, cold water keeps beer colder than a few remaining ice cubes. Great test.

What I discovered on a cross country trip was this. Crushed ice melts significantly faster than an equivalent solid block of ice. So, when it comes to foods, keep a cooler with a block of ice and another for drinks with crushed ice. The crushed ice chills drinks better but foods like cold cuts tend to go bad faster in crushed ice, than with a block of ice

@chuckschillingvideos

7 күн бұрын

The problem is that block ice, while it lasts longer, sacrifices its cooling ability because of the reduced surface area. There's no such thing as something for nothing, and a cooler in which block ice is used will take longer to cool the items inside, and those items will not get as cold as one in which crushed ice is used.

@cynicalrabbit915

7 күн бұрын

@@chuckschillingvideos During a cross country trip, we stopped to find that even Ziploc bags didn't keep water away from the food. We definitely went hungry because the wet food started to spoil faster. We switched to a block of ice which melted slower and had little water at the end of the day. No more wet spoiled food.

I think this matters more on the refill of ice into a cooler, if the water is significantly warm then drain it but if the water is still ice cold then just add ice because there wont be as big of a temperature swing compared to the air or the warm water

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

I believe you're right.

Here's an experiment to try: fill 1 gallons pails with ice. Wait until both pails are about 1/2 ice to water, then drain one pail, leaving just the ice. Then put your hands into the buckets, one in the ice water, one with the ice. See which hand goes numb first (it will always be the ice water). Your hand is the soda.

I use the chemical ‘ice’ blocks and prechill what I put in cooler. In your example would I be better off (cooler contents) if I added water to the cooler? Thanks

Another thing to consider if you are trying to cool something down, and Ice water bath would be quicker. Having cold water surrounded by ice would have more contact with let's say, a bottle of water, vs air surrounded by ice. The thermal exchange would happen more rapidly with water and ice. The ice may melt quicker but the coldness of the item will be quicker. All depends on what your use is.

I wonder if it would make a difference if there was a membrane that would let the water out but not let air in on the drain. So no warm air from outside could seep in through the drain.

Thanks. How does using block ice perform versus cubes or crushed ice? I always had better and longer results keeping food cold with block ice, and less water in general making it easier to keep the food dry.

If the cooler is used to keep something cold and dry, and you suspend that something from the cooler lid like you did your thermometers, then your experiment is valid. If, though, the cooler is used to keep cans of beverages cold (like, "how cold is this beer I just took out of the cooler"), then your experiment sucks. I appreciate that the thermometers may not have been waterproof, and so your experiment was limited to air temperature, but I'm more interested in the temperature of a can at the bottom of the cooler, where I always grab from.

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

Sorry you think the experiment sucks, but thanks for your feedback! The Coke I drank at the end out of the cold water in the non-draining cooler was still cold and delicious a whole day after the ice melted, for what it's worth. Cheers.

I've always left the water in. Not for ice retention though. I keep the ice in because, even after the ice is gone, the same amount of mass exists as water. While water is a far more efficient means of transferring heat than air, it's also a far more efficient insulator, meaning even if my ice is gone, my items inside will remain "cold" far longer than draining the ice. The ice may melt quicker in the water, but your items will still be cold for many more hours

What matters is the temperature of the items inside the cooler you are wanting to keep cold. A better method of comparing drain vs don't drain would be to monitor the temperature of the food/drinks instead of the air next to the lid.

I went from an igloo to a yeti and it cut my cost of ice by 75%. Amazing. Definitely paid for itself

@outdoorempirecom

8 ай бұрын

NIce! Those nice rotomolded coolers do make a big difference, especially for daily or power users.

@CRASS2047

8 ай бұрын

@@outdoorempirecom I’m ashamed to admit that I’m a power user. I have a bad habit of drinking Coke zero. I keep a cooler in the back of my SUV while I travel all over the country for work. With the igloo, I was having to buy and drain 2 bags a day. With the yeti, it’s one bag every other day. I felt ridiculous paying that much for a cooler, but in hindsight it was a good move

I think one thing you haven't considered is the temperature of the beverages. The ice water is ~32°F. If you drain the water, the ice won't always be in direct contact with the cans. The water will melt the ice faster because it is constantly warming the ice, but the cans will remain cooler longer. Thermal dynamics will also play into this as having the water will maintain a more uniform temperature.

My takeaway is that if you need the ice to last all week, then leave water in. Most of us replace the ice frequently to keep the cooler as cold as possible. So it doesn't make a significant difference.

As many have pointed out the temp of the soda or beer is what matters. I have found that a drink is ideally chilled when it has been down enveloped in water with lots of ice still “slushing” around it. Until the ice is completely melted the water will stay very cold just a little above freezing. So anything submerged will stay cold. Double zip lock your food so it stays cold and dry. If I’m on a longer than 2 to 4 day trip I try to maintain a 3:1 ice to water ratio. When I add a new bag of ice I drain some water to keep this ratio. I also have a tray for foods that need to stay out of the slush.

I do both depending on the weight. If I need it lighter or expect to move it frequently, I will drain knowing it will likely need replacement ice sooner. If weight is not a concern, I will not remove water unless the level becomes too high when replenishing with new ice but won't fully drain.