I've heard from Tolkien that they've migrated to the internet

@mrfrenly.wowwww

3 жыл бұрын

Funny haha

@informationyes

3 жыл бұрын

their very hairy now too

@ChrisSmith-5655

3 жыл бұрын

Those are the most stupid and witless of them all

@informationyes

3 жыл бұрын

​@@ChrisSmith-5655 The ones that even Sauron will not tolerate

@bartoszjanmarcinik2654

3 жыл бұрын

You're right I'm an olog-hai

"I get the impression that snow trolls live in the colder climates of middle earth" Bruh .... you don't say?

I never thought trolls had such depth and vaired so drastically well bugger me impressed

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks Samuel, took a lot of digging! :)

I’d like to think that trolls were, in essence, the guardians of the mountain; much like how the Ents are to the forest. Treebeard saying they are the contrary to ents, really builds this theory, and I’m not too sure about the ‘early human’ thing. Nevertheless, it seems like the most logical conclusion to me.

@itespablade1688

5 жыл бұрын

i think exactly the same, counterparts of ents. And ologs are corrupted version of them

@freddiewilliams3589

5 жыл бұрын

@@itespablade1688 nah ologs are an enhancemant of trolls, due to them becoming more human and sunlight resistant.

@Nantosuelta

4 жыл бұрын

I always thought of trolls as neutral creatures. Kind of like warg's. They're dangerous because their predators, but not inherently evil. They became more evil after being captured by the forces of Sauron or Morgoth and starved, beaten, or otherwise made into weapons. Similar to a dog used for fighting, the dog isn't bad, its just a product of its environment. Thats why I kind of like in the first lord of the rings film when the cave troll is dying, as its crying out in pain on the verge of collapse, there's almost of moment of sympathy for an ignorant creature that really didn't know any better.

@kvt617

4 жыл бұрын

Brilliant. I am in support of this thought. Thanks for the insight.

@thearthmystergeneral2583

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah Troll’s are pretty innocent at heart, they’re only really evil per say when they were enslaved by Sauron

Aww William, I always liked the idea of a good troll or goblin. Makes me think of the quote " What is better, to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" That quote seems out of place when you think it came from Skyrim

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

I know :( I feel the same about it!

@Mailed-Knight

5 жыл бұрын

There's a good Troll in Tales of the Perilous Realms as well as Troll that just steals corpse from a cemetery much to the chagrin to the Hobbits.

@joynelbonetdelgado4952

4 жыл бұрын

That's Paarthanux's quote

@abemartinez9623

3 жыл бұрын

It’s not out of place in elder scrolls. The orcs there aren’t evil . Trolls are wild. That quote is out of place in Tolkien’s world

@maclennanld

3 жыл бұрын

@@abemartinez9623 The trolls were intelligent enough to work as a team to run a battering ram, they may be tribal but they are not wild

Tom, Bill and Bert were the smartest trolls in the recorded history of Middle Earth.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

True that

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

haha, i doubt they were, it's just amusing since it concerns the recorded history and there's very little to begin with, so it's kind of true at the same time 😂

@enoughothis

5 жыл бұрын

Theirs is more of a savage animal cunning. Tom, Bert and Bill spoke the Westron (common tongue) and could even count.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

No No the Olog-Hai are definitely smarter. I just meant it as a joke, since there's so little recorded history on Trolls.

@NiraSader

5 жыл бұрын

*angry Bruz noises*

Didn't Aule originally make dwarves out of stone? So is it possible that the stone trolls are corrupted dwarves?

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

The Dwarves didn't have life after Aule made them. They were sort of puppets that would become inanimate unless he focused on them. They only gained true life once Iluvatar gave them a soul :)

@Shmulykas

5 жыл бұрын

I was thinking this the whole video. Can it be that trolls are corrupted dwarves just as orcs are corrupted elves?

@mmiller73

5 жыл бұрын

Interesting theory but I would doubt this very much. Tolkien goes out of his way to say that the Dwarves were not made of stone originally and that this was merely a rumor about them because dwarves were so secretive when it came to their private lives which included their women and reproductive practices.

@Shovelheadtard

5 жыл бұрын

I've always assumed or in my own mind accepted they were some sort of Dwarven ancestor as well. I'm no tolkien scholar by any means but for the same reasons .. Stone is such a Dwarven staple and direct connection. It would seem fitting they were related somehow.

@anthonycourte1384

5 жыл бұрын

Illuvatar opened his mind more to Melkor than to Aule. It may be possible it was enough to allow magics strong enough to pass to offspring.

My favorite of the evil races! When I saw the Cave Troll in the first LOTR movie, I was hooked! :D

@thestraightroad305

2 жыл бұрын

Boromir’s eye roll and tone of voice-I can hear it in my head-“They have a cave troll!”

My father always speculated that trolls were twisted forms of dwarves in similar fashion to elves. Not sure how much stock to put into that one though.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

They must have been stretched quite a bit though ;)

@Shisanon

5 жыл бұрын

Think about the family reunion dinners. "Now we have someone to reach the top shelves!"

@soybasedjeremy3653

5 жыл бұрын

@@GeekZoneMT Well never feed a Dwarve a feast at night lol.

@noctisocculta4820

3 жыл бұрын

@Sauron Merciful Tolkein said that orcs(also called goblins, snaga, and uruk-hai) reproduce in the manner of men. I believe it was in Unfinished Tales.

@tinalovre

3 жыл бұрын

@@GeekZoneMT LMAOOO

To be honest, I find Tolkien's interpretation of (at this point) one of the most iconic creatures ever to be in Fantasy fiction (and fiction in general) to be my most favorite and (in my opinion) best in all of Fantasy. And I am so glad you decided to cover them in this week's video, Geek! Regarding on the origins of the Trolls, the theory I most support is the one that says that the Trolls were actually just the corrupted versions of an already existing Troll-like species, for that one really just shows that Evil really can't truly create, and that it can only corrupt something that already exists (which is a philosophy that I (like JRRT) really love and follow. Perhaps you can cover it in another video someday?) Not to mention, it kinda really makes me pity the Trolls a bit more tbh. But that is just me! :)

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah I was actually thinking about that soon :). I find it quite sad that there can't be a neutral or good Troll, it just seems like they've been corrupted beyond redemption :(

@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773

5 жыл бұрын

@@GeekZoneMT Really?! That is awesome! But yeah, it is quite a shame that the Trolls were just corrupted to the point when none can be redeemed and be good :(. But then again, Morgoth's power is very potent, and his taint on Arda cannot be understated, so it would make the most sense (sadly).

@nuclearjanitors

5 жыл бұрын

I read the LoTR and hobbit at an early stage in my life but i remember already reading other fantasy and not being content with the creatures and descriptions...Tolkien's struck me as the best and most natural. Pure brilliance.

@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773

5 жыл бұрын

@@nuclearjanitors I couldn't agree more! :)

@tinybuddha8379

5 жыл бұрын

Luke Skywalker the 2nd you find every single thing to ”honestly be one of your most favorite creatures/artifacts/races/events/areas/in the legendarium” or what ever the subject is. You have practically written the same comment to every single video GeekZone has ever uploaded, and counting. I don’t mean to offend, it’s just something that has always caught my eye and even annoyed me a little, not sure why. Sorry to be direct!

Interestingly, some Trolls have the eye positions of herd and vegetarian animals. Predators have eyes facing forward, usually spaced closely, to assist in binocular focus. Deer dont need to know what is moving, just that something IS moving. A lion needs to know what and where to attack.

Tolkien was basically Tesla of writing

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Indeed!

@faith_alone

5 жыл бұрын

Tesla was an overrated con man, Tolkien made a great fantasy world.

@Doors067

5 жыл бұрын

EarnedMyResp3ct con man... you mean like a man who writes fake tales for money 😂😂😂 who is the real con artist

@faith_alone

5 жыл бұрын

@@Doors067 embarrassingly stupid response

@grantaum9677

5 жыл бұрын

They both saw the same light, just had their own way of spreading it

In ancient days Melkor corrupted the hearts of Internet users, and they became the first of the trolls, consigned to demand of their mothers hot pockets until the end of days. One does not simply navigate to 4Chan.

Hey guys hope you enjoy today's video! If I sound a bit different it's because I had a really bad sore throat while recording this (it was quite a painful experience 😂). As always subtitles are available, and any feedback is appreciated ;)

@ifxthenwhy6202

5 жыл бұрын

Do you think Trolls originally were relatives of the stone giants seen in Hobbit? Don't worry about your voice it sounds just fine :), could we see a vid on The Black Gate? Would be cool to hear about the history behind it and how it was used by Sauron.

@davidburrell8599

5 жыл бұрын

sound/voice good for me - understood you without any issues

@Gamer-dq8kr

5 жыл бұрын

Can you explain argons sword and what it’s history is

@easportsaxb8057

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for uploading this video because I'm new to the Lord of the rings universe and this is helping me to get to know Tolkien's World.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

It's really hard to say, because the movie's depiction makes them seem like literal stone giants, when they could have simply been larger people. So it's a connection I'd avoid since it would have a weak foundation to build upon, though it's certainly possible :). And yeah sure, I'll add the black gate to my list of future topics :)

My head canon is that they were Middle Earth's equivalent to Yetis before Morgoth corrupted them into Trolls.

I like to think that the stone trolls originated from the mountains themselves, similar to the mountain giants, and were later corrupted, twisted, and manipulated to where light would not change them but only weaken them.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

hmm by Mountain Giants do you mean the giants mentioned in the hobbit?

@merrychain9937

5 жыл бұрын

@@GeekZoneMT Indeed, the book itself depicts them a bit different from the movie though.

@nuclearjanitors

5 жыл бұрын

You know what that's what I was thinking... Ever since I was a kid I figured that they were just creatures that existed naturally, that were corrupted at some point. The trolls in The Hobbit are extremely different then the other trolls we see. Maybe those are the original species and the evil quote on quote ones we see are corrupted from them

@hiddendesire3076

5 жыл бұрын

GeekZone I noticed that it seems like there is a distinction between the Rock Giants from the Hobbit movie and the Mountain Giants shown in the Battle for Middle Earth series. The later often seem to still have rocky/scaly skin that often mirrors the rocky areas where they slumber, but still appear organic, instead of some walking statue or boulder.

This might be a bit far-fetched, but could the primitive humans trolls could have been corrupted from have been related to Beorn? Beorn has a very strong connection to the mountains, saying while looking at The Misty Mountains "The day will come when they [the orcs] will perish and I shall go back" He also possesses extreme strength and abnormal height.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

I think it's unlikely to be honest, as by primitive I imagined that it might be referring to humans such as the Pukel-Men. :)

@01MrCapricorn

5 жыл бұрын

@@GeekZoneMT the Pukel-Men makes sense - they too have a connection to the mountains.

@Spartan_777

5 жыл бұрын

Beorn was a Were Bear.

@slappy8941

5 жыл бұрын

I think the original trolls were created by Melkor as golems, but it's possible that Sauron later bred his own trolls from orcs, as Saruman had done by crossing orcs with humans to create the Uruk-Hai. We know that Sauron bred some orcs for specialized roles, such as the smaller ones that served as scouts.

@TAGGdinc

4 жыл бұрын

Same thing I thought at first but then I thought is morgoth corrupted beorns race then you would think the result would be more dangerous and deadly than a troll. Possibly still able to shapeshift into evil monstrous beasts.

I have a feeling that the whole concept of trolls turning to stone plagued Tolkien and limited his concept of trolls, and that's why he invented the Olog-hai. To answer your question of how the trolls could have participated in the battles of the First Age, I think that you are partially correct in your answer about the artificial darkness, because Tolkien clearly throughout the Return of the King mentions the darkness created by Mount Doom and I believe this enables the orcs (not uruk-hai) to be mustered from Mordor. It seems to be dark throughout the build-up to and whole battle of Pelennor Fields, like its portrayed in the movie. So, my theory is that Morgoth may have made some trolls akin to Olog-hai. Let's call them Olog-hai version 1, and they could also survive the light. But I also think Morgoth summoned darkness too. But I think my theory is plausible because Sauron got everything he knew from Morgoth, including the knowledge of how to breed dark creatures. So this makes me think that trolls actually did come from stone, or that originally they were creatures that were like golems or things of stone, but then they were perverted into trolls. One thing is for sure, I think Tolkien liked the fact that the origin of trolls, like many things in his universe, is shrouded in mystery. Great vid!

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Possibly, though I find it weird how sun-resistant Trolls weren't mentioned before the Third Age if Morgoth had created some,; especially since Aragorn implies that any one with a bit of knowledge on Trolls would know they couldn't survive in sunlight (making it seem like a universal statement)

@danielriley7380

4 жыл бұрын

Erm there is a chapter called Uruk-Hai in the book. Never heard of Olog-hai.

I've always been fascinated and terrified of the Trolls. This video is another great piece of work by you, my friend.

In the Hobbit didn’t Gandalf say something like “I shall get a kind troll to plug this cave with a large stone, so no other can be trapped” (he was speaking about the cave in the misty mountains that the company got caught in by the goblins) ?

@chimerasuchus

2 жыл бұрын

He said giant, not troll.

Could the human-like trolls have been simple giants who had no affiliation and no will but were corrupted by Morgoth? 🤔

@Paulafan5

5 жыл бұрын

An extinct race of Men, maybe to the far East... I was thinking Beorn's people, since he's about 9 feet tall and if he was "corrupted" he could be as big as a Troll.

In LOTRO discussions of trolls have led to some very good ideas as to how or what to interpret from Tolkiens writings. One of the most interesting was a possibility that trolls always existed since before the 2nd age at least and that they led very solitary lives and then were found by Melkor and thus corrupted. The trolls possessed great brute strength so it was thought they were taken advantage of. Anyway that was when lotro was very new...2007 or so.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

I used to play Lotro, forgot about that! Do you remember in which area this was explored? I'm curious! :)

@dynjarren5454

5 жыл бұрын

@@GeekZoneMT It had to be around the time pvp was first implemented and there the creep side player could use 'points' to run as a troll (as the free peoples side could have a ranger). Well I recall many conversations about how trolls came into being and it was fascinating!

I have always considered the trolls as being made from ents. The sun just fossilizes them as an old tree would turn to stone over time. The only ones I know of that don't turn to stone in light are the Olog Hai, which were trolls modified by Sauron along with the Uruk Hai to be able to fight in the light without fear or negative effects.

I just discovered these videos and can't stop watching them. I've learned so much about Middle-Earth these last two days!!

I think I'd still rather fight one of Tolkien's trolls than a Skyrim frost troll

@CBDMB

4 жыл бұрын

Skyrim troll are a bit smaller and less smart tho

@hervisdaubeny2591

4 жыл бұрын

@@CBDMB a well placed strike to a frost trolls chest or neck stops them... they are also roughly the size of a man. Edit: my point is Tolkien's trolls had size snd strength on skyrim trolls.

@forrestdorman4870

4 жыл бұрын

God help you all if fought a Warhammer troll.

@abemartinez9623

3 жыл бұрын

Hell no . Tolkien’s trolls have always scared me ! They are massive wield weapons! I also thought the idea of going to battle with them would be terrifying!!! If you fought a wild troll in Skyrim they are fierce but beatable!

A follow up video covering that of the Olog-hai would be wonderful. I love all of your videos btw, I always find something to geek out over on your channel! 🤓

This is, without doubt, the best video I have watched concerning JRRT's books. I really enjoyed EVERYTHING about it. Thank you so much, because I am relatively new to his writings.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Wow, thanks Frances, I appreciate it buddy! If you've got any questions, feel free to reach out to many any time :) Have you watched any of my other videos? Cause there are quite a few topics which I could recommend that I think you'd be interested in!

@franceslambert8070

5 жыл бұрын

@@GeekZoneMT I stumbled on to you a few weeks ago and have drove my husband crazy because I only want to read the books or watch the vids. When we get home Tuesday, I will have WIFY so can just watch ALL your vids. Any questions I have, I will definately send to you. Thank you, again.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Oh that's awesome :) Please do!

Another excellent GeekZone video. :) The only comment I really have for this one is that yes, I believe in a few places it is mentioned that Morgoth does, in fact, summon artificial darkness, a black inky cloud or smoke that would cover the sight of the stars (and even the sun, near Angband) and give aid to his creatures both in large battles and stealth.

This was an amazing video, I loved the theories and information! One of my top ten favorite videos I think :)

So happy to get another video! Thank you and I can’t wait for the next video!

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Cheers buddy, did you enjoy this one? :)

I am a tolkien super fan and I love his work. Thank you for making my life a better place and believing in magic. You are my light in my darkest times. Love you forever mister tolkien and your children the elves and hobbits. From south africa writhe love

Great Video! I actually was looking if you had made a video about trolls 2 days ago, soo glad that you made one! :)

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Maybe it's the gift of foresight ;)

@leavingglobe4442

5 жыл бұрын

@@GeekZoneMT Haha maybe im half elf :D

I like the idea that they may have been corrupted versions of earlier humans. Something like the Hillmen being used as a base like the Elves for Orcs. But then they could have been further corruptions of Orcs. Made to grow faster and larger. As for Sting, I think it is its Elvish heritage which allowed it to pierce the troll's hide. The blood did not damage the blade either. Thanks for doing this video. I think Trolls are some of the most interesting entities in the Hobbit and LotR.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

You're welcome Andrew! Yeah the human origin is interesting, though I'm really fascinated with how Morgoth animated the mountains, it's such a mystery!

@MasterMalrubius

5 жыл бұрын

@@GeekZoneMT BTW, I was wondering after your video (see how they provoke thought!) whether there is any connection to the troll and the giants that Bilbo and company encountered in the Hobbit. I know there is talk that they may just be Middle-Earth folklore for severe weather but it did make me think. Maybe you or one of the other channel fans can give their opinion.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

I'll be making a videos on Giants shortly, will discuss this for sure :)

@noctisocculta4820

3 жыл бұрын

It's possible they had multiple origins like orcs had. The Silmarillion describes demonic spirits as orcs, and L.O.T.R. and Unfinished Tales suggests they originated from corrupted humans. Realistically though, Tolkien was just trying to tell a good story regardless of whether it fitted previously published work or not. Which it never did, but that seemed to amuse and inspire him.

I do love how you use cinematic shots of lotro to make these videos. Keep it up they’re so well explained and interesting👍

I actually kind of like the idea of trolls being corrupted Ents, or very similar to Ents. There's a nice direct contrast since trees get energy, power, from the sun, while trolls are weakened by it.

Great to see you posting again! I agree with your assessment that the race of trolls and their characteristics was something that Tolkien changed from The Hobbit to LOTR and the Silmarillion. The Hobbit was more of a children’s tale and the description of trolls reflected that by making them sound more whimsical and magical. The same may be said for other “magical” creatures and characters in the Hobbit such as Beorn and the “stone giants” that seem out of place in the LOTR, and that Tolkien never really created a backstory for like the other more central characters.

My theory: proto-trolls are to mountains as Ents are to trees. Trolls were originally a race like the Ents, only of stone who would have characteristics like moving very slowly similar to how Ents have traits of that varied nature. Morgoth corrupted the original race AND used them as a base to experiment with other forms. This theory is in harmony with Gollum's origin and I think it's decent. Thanks for reading. I love this video series!

Love your work, man. Always rewarding!

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks CW, comments like these make it more than worth it ;)

Great video. I really appreciate your longer ones

Amazing channels like yours and JRR Bombadil himself continue to create a world that feels more and more real. Great job

excellent content as usual, keep up the good work, all the best from dreary old scotland

Found this channel 2days ago already my favorite

PLEASE do a video on dragons. Btw, your videos are awesome - you do a great job at elucidating the seemingly esoteric lore of middle earth. Love it, keep it up!

Keep up the amazing work I love hearing you're voice talk about the middle earth lore its soothing i never miss an episode no matter how i'm feeling

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks buddy! I appreciate the support :)

Can you do a video on Wargs?

@AlexLopez-vm7uq

5 жыл бұрын

A trully underestimated, underlooked creature in Middle Earth!

@danielriley7380

4 жыл бұрын

Just corrupted wolves. Not even worth the effort.

@Mare_Man

4 жыл бұрын

Probably descendents from the same evil litters that birthed Carcharoth, the great evil wolf that ate the hand of Beren and the Silmaril

I've wondered for years why the triple in The Hobbit turned to stone in sunlight but those in The Return of the King did not. Thank you for explaining this!

Now we know how much we missed in the movies. Big thanks buddy...amazing video

I love your videos man keep up the awsome work!

trolls are such intriguing and beastly creatures I've always liked learning of their feats (olaghi are op) wonderful video good sir.

I love your videos so much, the lore and the way you explain it is so interesting

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Cheers buddy, glad you like them!

Very well made video, such an interesting story! ⛰

Great video as always. Also it helped me to double check something I say in my next video :P I would either agree with the elves (so they are "transformed" orcs) or say parts of their nature is a left over from "The Hobbit" (which originally was not part of the LotR universe). The 3 trolls in The Hobbit are definitely a bit too "smart" for simply being transformed beasts and the Olog-hai look like a solution needed for the "turning into stone by sunlight" problem generated by including The Hobbit into LotR's universe. Creating them out of stone seems quite problematic and for them to be possessed by evil spirits, they are not powerful and smart enough (look at the old dragons). What I also could imagine is that there once was a transformed creature possessed by an evil spirit (the father of trolls so to say) and it had offspring, which lost their power and intellect in later generations of the breeding (somewhat similar to the werewolves from the First Age). But that's just another theory ^^

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks man, I'm curious what you double checked now. I think all those theories are possible especially since we have similar examples from other creatures in Middle-Earth, though considering how ambiguous it all is I prefer just going through the information Tolkien provides :)

@ThePhilosophersGames

5 жыл бұрын

It's a only a very brief mention of trolls and their origin, but wasn't sure if there was more to it, than I had in mind. Seeing your video confirmed what I remembered, so my memory isn't that terrible at time :D

I remember the hill trolls and snow trolls being in the witch king expansion for bfme2, they were actually sentient and were able to be commanded as squads

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Oh yeah, I tried to capture some footage from that game actually, had to scrap the idea due to time constraints :(

Personally, I like to imagine trolls as a mutated corruption of dwarves.

Tolkien never really felt satisfied with any of his explanations of where the Orcs came from, so it makes sense that he had trouble explaining the Trolls. Although it might not explain the earliest trolls my own pet theory is that they originated from Sauron's conquest of Mordor. Fangorn explains that Mordor was once the lush and well-ordered gardens of the Entwives and that the Entwives disappeared after Sauron took the region over. My suspicion is that the Entwives didn't escape; that they were captured and transformed (petrified) and bred with the Orcs to create the first Trolls. But the magics that animated the petrified Entwives couldn't withstand sunlight so their troll offspring also would be petrified by the sun. Perhaps the very first trolls were just very large species of Orcs since there were many kinds of orcs as we saw in Mordor and other places in the novels.

@ieatmice751

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like Tolkien just came up with the evil races so that Morgoth and Sauron would have an army, and didn’t expect people to give them too much thought

@WickedPrince3D

2 жыл бұрын

@@ieatmice751 I agree; but after the fact he decided that there needed to be an explanation for where they came from since he went to such effort to explain where everybody (and every other sentient creature) came from. He just couldn't come up with anything that made logical sense within his own framework.

@markcobuzzi826

2 жыл бұрын

In my head-canon, I would like to imagine that there are three separate methods available for Morgoth to create more orcs, which reflect the multiple ideas Tolkien apparently had: 1.) Elves that were seduced by Morgoth’s power and willingly corrupted by it, similarly to how Sméagol was transformed by the One Ring into Gollum, albeit more gradually. 2.) Recently slain elves and/or men, whose bodies were altered into corrupt shapes and inhabited by the damned souls of others, similarly to how the Night Creatures in Netflix’s Castlevania show are created. This would be my way of referencing how Tolkien considered having orcs be embodied evil spirits, plus the movie scenes where Saruman seemingly “manufactures” some of his Uruk-hai. 3.) Once orcs are created using either of the first two methods, they would then have the ability to naturally breed among themselves, creating entirely new people who are born as orcs. This is how I would account for characters like Bolg, who is implied to literally be Azog’s son.

@WickedPrince3D

2 жыл бұрын

@@markcobuzzi826 Tolkien himself discounted the first idea; which was one of his own early ideas; that the orcs were made from corrupted and twisted elves. He decided that elves were impossible to corrupt just as the dwarves were. So he had to re-write his history to bring Men into the story earlier than he'd intended to explain how they had been corrupted to create the orcs. Tolkien's first idea was that Morgoth created the Orcs by shaping them from earth and animating them; but then he realized that he'd already written that only Eru Iluvatar (his creator god) could create life. Then he came up with the idea that they were created from warped animals (if I remember right) but then he decided that Morgoth didn't have the ability to give sentience to them. So then he came up with the idea that they were corrupted elves; but he "realized" that elves couldn't be corrupted; so finally he came up with the idea of corrupted Men. My personal suspicion is a hybrid of the animal and Men ideas; that he got the idea of "alloying" men and animals from Sauron who was essentially the second most knowledgeable being concerning craftsmanship and working with metals and gems and stones. Sauron was intended originally to serve Aule - the master craftsman of the Vala but Morgoth corrupted him to his own side. The alloys would have a certain amount of sentience from their Man heritage and a certain amount of animal savagery from their beast heritage; and a variability based on what sorts of animal contributed to the latter. This would also explain where his werewolves came from that were used to chase Beren and Luthien after they'd stolen a silmaril from his crown. Note: the other sentient creatures (not created by Morgoth) of Middle Earth including the dwarves, ents, the rohirrim's sentient horses, the great eagles, etc, were invented by the Vala who entered Middle Earth to fight Morgoth but given life by Eru at their request.

@markcobuzzi826

2 жыл бұрын

@@WickedPrince3D Obviously, my knowledge of Middle-earth's nitty gritty details is far more limited, as indicated by your more expansive and in-depth reply. But I do have another idea to posit, similar to the one you brought up. I know it is established that Trolls were, at the very least, made in mockery of the Ents, assuming they are not corrupted Ents themselves. But if Tolkien were to confirm them as corrupted Ents, I thought of a hypothetical idea, which could also incorporate a previous idea Trolls being animated stone. As far as I know, the only time trees can become stone is through fossilization or "petrification". So another head-canon I toyed with was an idea, that the original Trolls were created from Morgoth trying to reanimate and corrupt long deceased Ents, which had since become "petrified wood". Because those specific Trolls were not fully alive and needed that magic to biologically function, the sun could make that spell wear off and turn them back into stone. I would like to imagine that the Olog-hai were, in turn, either crafted with a more resilient version of that spell or a result of Morgoth using superior methods (like Frankenstein building a construct from dead scraps, versus InGen cloning dinosaur DNA from fossils, so it can be grown into its own individual living creature).

Excellent video. Have ye ever considered doing videos on some of the weapons in Middle Earth? Might be interesting.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks mate! Yeah I was actually considering making a short video on Sting :)

@franceslambert8070

5 жыл бұрын

@@GeekZoneMT Please do.

The is something I've always wondered about. Thanks for making the video.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

You're welcome Nathan :)

Your passion and mastery of LOTR lore is obvious in every video you release. Can't wait to see what new content you release and I hope you will be our guide to whatever setting Amazon picks for the new series!

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks Tristan, I'll be covering the new series for sure! :)

I like the use of the the sandmans sad theme song in the background lol it works very well with this video

This is actually something that interests me since I have never seen any scraps of lore about their origin

Very cool, one of my favorite depictions of mythical creature in a movie/book.

Very interesting video! Once more, the creatures with the least information about are the most fun to discuss ;P Bout the first age: Id guess that, as trolls couldnt endure the sunlight and orcs hated it, Morgoth would cover the battlefields in darkness with ashclouds from the thangorodrim and the iron hills, similar to how sauron covered the lands in darkness to weaken the hearts of men and to aid his servants (as a considerable amount od saurons orcs also feared the sunlight, tho he had the advantage of having a larger force of men, and -probalbly- orcs that were bred in a similar fashion as sarumans and could endure sunlight) Or, maybe Morgoth already bred sunlight-resistant trolls and orcs, but they went extinct or got forgotten, as the majority of his servants were "vanilla-orcs/trolls", and these "special forces" were all unlucky enough to be eradicated in the Great War. If there are any mentions of trolls on battlefields during the first age that specifically had full sunlight, that is.

I like to imagine the trolls as animals-like, just living along in the mountains, in simple communties. Being rather hostile but not per se evil, until morgoth saw their strenght and corrupted them in the darkness, where their weakness to sunlight comes from, like with the orcs, or got intensified. In the Hobbit stone giants are mentioned, maybe they are related to them, or they are the reslut of morgoth trying to corrupt stone giants.

I always look forward to seeing your videos!

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks mate. hope you enjoyed it!

I thought trolls were created by the Internet :)

@MisterTutor2010

5 жыл бұрын

@Dark Lord Sauron He was looking for the secret fire of Facebook but ultimately he only has the ability to leave mean comments :)

@MisterTutor2010

5 жыл бұрын

@Dark Lord Sauron He will be return once he unleashes the Dagor Dagorath virus :)

@alcooks1051

3 жыл бұрын

I think I'd still rather fight one of Tolkien's trolls than a Skyrim frost troll

Is it possible that Trolls originate from corrupted men or elves, similar to orcs, but were bred to be larger and larger?

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Well Tolkien seems to imply that some Trolls possibly originated from humans

@hiddendesire3076

5 жыл бұрын

GeekZone There also are some half breeds. I can’t recall the commander of sauron’s forces at the siege of Minas Tirith, but if memory serves me right, he was half orc, half troll or something like that.

@altacal6165

4 жыл бұрын

How about possibly mutated orcs. I always envisioned when reading the books, orcs as just much smaller trolls.

I was thinking that maybe they were related, a corrupted from of giants. Since, the giants are an illusive race that reside mainly in myth, they hid by day by taking the form of their surrounds, sort of camouflage. The early trolls weren’t as good at this, so if anyone saw them when day light came, they could potentially become stuck in the form of their origin race’s natural surrounds. So, the three trolls from the Hobbit turned to stone because of their relation to the stone giants. And they didn’t become stuck as stone statues due to the sun light, they became stuck as stone since the Bilbo and gang saw them when light hit them.

I thought those were goblins who moved into the Mines of Moria, given how Sting did not glow when the goblins grew near.

Bruh that troll cave had some PHAT LOOTZ. We're talking your a lower level questing through your game and you happen to stumble across a max level legendary weapon that you can somehow weild.. that level of phat lootz

i was thinking that maybe there was once a race like Ents, but made of flesh and stone, such as a Gollem. This would explain both statements and support the lore, for if the power of evil cannot create, but warp and manifest darkness unknown to these creatures, the light would return those once delineative from stone to their original states.

Thanks for the great vid!

i like the lotro interpretation of giant-kind and Jorthkyn, with the trolls insinuated as being corruptions of those

Congratulations on 50K Subscribers Karl!!!

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Cheers Arcen!

@arcen3169

5 жыл бұрын

@@GeekZoneMT 🍻

The fact that pippin slayed a troll it makes me wonder about what a caste of warrior hobbits would be like. I imagine they would specialize in quick attacks wielding daggers and knives in the same way dwarves specialize in blunt and heavier weapons

I mentioned on the Orc origin segment that Morgoth may have indeed messed with men, but got an unexpected result. I would suggest that since there are so few of them seen, that several different types of Trolls may have been the end result of Morgoth's meddling. Stone Trolls, on the other hand, may have been Morgoth's manipulations of trying to breed from "lesser" stock. Maybe he twisted the dwarves, too. He messed with everyone (and everything) else, why not the dwarves. Or he could have puttered around with Stone Giants (to make stone trolls) who only come out in thunderstorms to war with each other. No one ever remembers the Stone Giants from The Hobbit.

Great vid as usual!

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Cheers buddy!

@Anglisc1682

5 жыл бұрын

Jawooohl, herr Generaaal

Again an interesting video about middle earth thank you.

Hey Karl, I'm loving your Middle Earth lore videos. What country are you from btw?

Geek zone can you do a video about orgres? I know that they weren’t really mentioned clearly in any of the books, only by bilbo briefly in the hobbit, but I think in the botfa movie they were introduced and are technically different than trolls. I think it would be really cool to make a video about them, but that is just me. It would also be cool if someone made a book about ogres in the Tolkien world and explain them better.

AJ what happened to all of sauron's servants after the destruction of the ring?

Great video. Thank you!

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

You're welcome Brian!

That Divinity 2 track at the end was a nice touch

Corrupted giants

That divinity backround music though !

fascinating. i had the idea that the Orcs were not in fact elves but their form was made in the discord of Melkor during the music of the Ainur, in mockery of the theme of the children of iluvatar (if such a thing was in the music). if correct, this mockery would have extended even to the trolls as another theme etc. i like your idea that Melkor animated mountains/rocks to make stone trolls...

The best Tolkien channel ever! 🌿🍀🌲

Maybe the stone trolls are somehow releated to the stone giants? Since it's speculated, that they were connected (maybe even made of) stone, the stone trolls were something simliar, beings made of stone. We only got a glimpse of them, in their game, during the storm. An event, in which the sunlight is blocked out. Maybe these giants are more active, during less sunlight, yet mighty enough to not fully become stones during daylight. So maybe the stone trolls are in a way, from the same tribe as them, yet twisted by morgoth.

I had two main ideas that could explain trolls' origins: 1) perhaps they are a corruption of a primate, like a gorilla. That would explain the reference to "primitive human types", as well as lacking an original language but being able to learn rudimentary talking abilities. Tolkien also says speech is symbolic of a creature having a soul, or in other words being sentient or originally created by Eru. Apes don't naturally speak, but can learn to communicate with humans via sign language. So perhaps a gorilla-like beast that lived in the mountains was twisted by Melkor into a taller creature, imbued with the hardness and strength of the mountain stone. 2) it could be weaker maiar spirits or even weaker human or elf spirits that were corrupted by Melkor and sent to inhabit the stone bodies of the trolls. I like the first theory better, I think it explains the questions surrounding their origin more completely.

Great video! glad to hear from you. i honestly didn't really notice you had a soar throat, may be a little bit, but not obviously noticeably in the video.

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Cheers! I felt it though 😂

@adriataylor7534

5 жыл бұрын

you too!! you came through like a champ!

Could you do a video on the Nazgul? I really loved you vid on The Witch King, and would appreciate a video on the Nazgul in general.

Hmm, interesting. Nice video my dude!

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks Bolwing!

It is possible that the trolls were once stone golems, opposites to the ent, then over time were transformed into living creatures by magic but would turn to stone by sunlight. Afterwards, different types of trolls began to appear with some choosing to ally with Sauron and likely corrupted to serve him. As for the special breed of trolls that served Sauron, much like the Uruk Kai, were improved from other trolls to loyally serve Sauron and not turn to stone by sunlight. Not all trolls were evil but were corrupted to serve Sauron as Tolkien stated "evil cannot create but can corrupt something that already exists".

My favorite thing about trolls is Samwise Gamgee's song he sang when they came across the trolls tricked by Gandalf.

what if trolls were made in the very beginning like when melkor played his own music and it made creatures of the night

@vrinnmetagen

4 жыл бұрын

Like the evil trolls we know now or the race that will be made into trolls?

@calebklingerman7902

4 жыл бұрын

Citizen probably means that Eru created a good/neutral creature like them, and Melkor later corrupted them.

@humblegamer7876

4 жыл бұрын

Melkor can't create life it's the entire root of his insecurity. He can only corrupt existing things

Great video!

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Cheers!

amazing video dude. thank you

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks mate, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

@bonfacemwangi6728

5 жыл бұрын

would you consider doing one on the "middle earth shadow of mordor" game its really an interesting game with alot of insight on the inner workings of saurons army and what the orcs do when not charging in wars. just a suggestion though

@GeekZoneMT

5 жыл бұрын

I was considering reviewing it to be honest :)

When it comes to the Primitive Men being the base that was corrupted into trolls, I'm reminded of Beorn, the shape changer, who says that he is the first and last of his kind. He is a giant man, and I'm wondering if his kind where what were caught and corrupted by Morgoth, who is Melkor. That would explain their size, their origin to be corrupted, etc.

Excellent theories as always Geekzone. I tend to think that the trolls are separate beings entirely from men. To me, your animated stone theory seems closer to the mark. But who knows? I remember Gandalf recounting his fight we the balrog deep beneath Khazad-dum, where he said the world was gnawed by nameless things. Or...when the world was young, the terrors that stalked in the darkness before sun and moon. Who knows what other creatures existed that Morgoth corrupted? By Gandalf comments, it seems many are unknown.

the hill trolls has insane loot. glamdring, orcrist and sting ftw

The Arkenstone retained light that fell upon it and emitted a dim glimmer, the Silmarils retained the light of the Two Trees. There is a precedent for stone retaining something as non-corporeal as light, which has a direct connection to the Music of the Ainur, why not then couldn't Morgoth couldn't do the same with imperishable fire? He already had knowledge of what the silmarils were and probably had some knowledge of how they were made (but not exact details or skill to make them), it seems like the next logical step would be to utilize the process. Melkor at the beginning of time wanted to create things but lacked the motive force to go about it. As far as he could get would be about as much as Aule did with the Dwarves, where he could interact with them on some level but when his attention wasn't on them, they would simply stop moving/living. I think he was able to capture some of that imperishable fire and insert it into beast and things to create monstrosities. Corrupted elves that were afraid of the summons to the West would definitely be more afraid of West as the disembodied fea. Fea that are bound to Middle Earth and do not go to the Halls of Mandos would be a resource to a being like Morgoth or Sauron. It is likely the Two Watchers at Cirith Ungol were like this. It would also explain the overall behavior of Orks and Trolls. When a dark lord is not present they tend to hold themselves up in some dark corner to live rather wretched lives that are on some level analogous to the children of eru ilúvatar. I think that the trolls were made from stone, while the Orks were made of animal flesh and bones. Dragons could also fit in with this. The elves that rejected the summons of the Valar would probably be terrified of the Sun as it would daily destroy their once static existence. The light of the trees definitely didn't go beyond the Misty Mountains so this would have been the first hint of change for them. There is a strong precedent in real life for people that were abused, when then instructed by their abusers to continue the same abuse onto other people a lot of them will. I found a minor example of this to be hazing found in social clubs like fraternities. Now with Middle Earth, The force that bound these spirits to the physical was Morgoth or Sauron, however a falsehood when confronted with the Truth is broken. When the true light touched these beings it showed them for the falsehood they were. With trolls, they were but stone, with orks they were sniveling beast (maybe some cave animal). This light, as opposed to the dark flame's light, reminds me of Plato's cave, where the demiurges burn a fire in the cave to make light, while the sun outside outclasses the fire at every turn. Where the two lights placed in the same space and compared you would barely be able to notice the flame, much less the light from the fire. Plato's cosmology is very relevant when considering Tolkien's own spiritual beliefs, Catholicism, which historically heavily used Plato; with several saints even describing Plato as a virtuous pagan. I would go so far to say that Tolkien's work could be placed within the framework of Plato's cosmology with no real effort.