Kyra goin click clack click clack in the background is a brilliant start to the video

@RachelOates

4 жыл бұрын

😂She was playing with her (current) favourite toy!

The Lizzie Borden case is actually one of the first true crime cases that got me interested in the genre and I'm jazzed that you decided to cover this one!

@Lilacrosepetalleaf

4 жыл бұрын

The black dahlia got my interest as a kid.

I’ve always thought the theory that Lizzie’s uncle John Morse could have been the killer was interesting. He was never properly investigated iirc but he was apparently staying with the family the night before the murders and was arguing with Andrew about money or finances? And that he was a butcher, and there’s the theory that a butcher of the time would have traveled with his knives and that a butcher knife could have been the murder weapon. As far as I know there’s not much actual evidence but a relatively recent book called ‘Cold Case to Case Closed’ about it.

@Billygoatsgrruff

Жыл бұрын

well he couldn't have because wasn't there. Fking hell, why can't people just accept that a woman did this

@lizziebordenaudio

Жыл бұрын

A. Russell, he was most definetly considered a suspect. There were witnesses that saw him in town during the murders. His alibi holds up. Don't be mad about it.

Your hair is gorgeous, Rachel!

As a History student... Rachel your methodology and advice for comparing multiple primary sources is fantastic! If you ever felt like pursuing a different academic path, I bet you'd make a great historian. :) Love your in-depth videos like this

2:09 What you said is invaluable and super important to someone who has recently been close to a true crime case which has harmed people I love. Thank you so much for the acknowledgement that victims (nor perpetrators) are not there for amusement. It helps breathe some humanity back into the people whom crimes directly affect.

This entire case sounds like an absolute mess from the start. We will never know if she did it or not, so I don't feel comfortable saying either.

Super interesting! Perfect Halloween upload, everyone knows about and references Lizzie Borden (my phone just text suggested the last name) as definitely guilty but I had no idea it was so vague! On another note I would absolutely LOVE to see a collaboration with you and Mr Atheist on a hot topic! Like maybe a live podcast/stream sorta thing where you guys discuss something really pressing or interesting. I'm actually a highly spiritual person but I absolutely love the intellectual and scientific analysis of your perspectives ❣️

So glad you got a sponsor! I did a report on lizie my last year of highschool an i had a hard time deciding on her guilt but in the end i actualy decided on defending her. You really did fabulous job with this video.

drinking game: ine shot every time Rachel says "a hell of a lot" :D :D :D I love your enthusiasm and your choices of topics. You are so exciting to listen to.

Great to see you back your videos are alway awesome and interesting very interesting video rachel love you

Just wanted to say that I'm loving this new content! I also love the care you take with the people involved. It's respectful and enthralling at the same time.

You should watch Glam and Gore's video about her staying at the house. Even if you don't believe in the ghost stuff it might give you a slightly different perspective. This was such an interesting video though and I love your channel.

As someone that studied history at university, I really appreciated this video and the need to look at a range of sources and think critically - a really interesting video

The real lesson here: people are equally capable of being a jerk and/or committing crimes. Trust no one.

Thank you for this video, Rachel 🌞

I love how both you and glam and gore both came out with a video on the Lizzie Borden case! One on a bit of ghost hunting and the next about more info on the whole story! The coincidence is great

@RachelOates

4 жыл бұрын

I’ve never seen her videos but so many people have mentioned her in the comments now I just have to go and check out the channel! 😁

@justkirah7949

4 жыл бұрын

Rachel Oates yes check her out! She mainly dose like scary FX makeup and stuff but she’s done a series for Halloween this year. Where see stays at haunted places or place with a scary/dark past and dose some ghost hunting.

From listening to this video, it sounds like ultimately, you believe Lizzy to be guilty. Am I wrong?

love this kind of content ☺️

I've been living for your content recently!

Stephanie Harlowe is awesome! And you too of course, Rachel!

I remember seeing one book that made a case seeming clear enough for innocence and later a television programme that seemed to bring out that modern technique would have pointed to her guilt. Agatha Christie seemed to think her guilty, but was more concerned with the difficulties of cases like this and even more the Bravo case when at least one or more innocent people had to live under the shadow of suspicion after an inconclusive resolution.

Really interesting video! I do wonder how much of the case was the police messing up and how much of it was police procedures at the time. I know our concept of how to handle a crime scene has changed a lot over the years. Did Fall River have it’s own detectives at that point? I can never remember when the switch over between private detective firms (like Pinkerton) and police detectives really occurred.

Audible is the only way to go for people like me who can work and listen to a book at the same time . Obviously not every job is safe to listen to anything through head sets while you work but there are some jobs out there that you can.Also great while working out . I might give this book a go.

We'll probably never know the truth but it is a good case to study as an example of how not to conduct a murder investigation.

I read an article about crime scene experts who testify at trials these days. There was a case where someone claimed at her trial that the blood on the ceiling got there because her hair got bloody when she found the victim and carried her there and she flipped her hair. The investigators had seen her coming. They had full documentation of the models they'd hired flipping bloodied hair again and again and never producing any sort of blood spatter pattern on the ceiling and others stabbing a fresh pig carcass or some such simvictim and producing the same kind of pattern as was seen at the crime scene, so when the prosecutor said "Flipping your hair couldn't cause that pattern," and the defence said "You can't possibly know that," they showed they actually *could* know that.

My grandmother is apparently directly related to her. Haha

I loved this so much. So intresting but the sad thing is I knew so much of this stuff from a musical about Lizzie. Such a good musical which used a lot of evidence from the court transcripts. For a historical musical, it’s really good.

My school had to do a history fair project about themes of "Triumph and Tragedy", and my friend did Borden's trial. It fit the theme because the tragedy was the death of the parents but the court system and fairness triumphed due to law practices being followed. She(my friend) did good, but didnt make it to county. I honestly beleive she should have though.

Do you have an US affiliate link? I went to impulse buy it, but I'm in the US and it's cheaper to buy from the US Amazon. Love your work. I can't afford to be a patreon, but I do want to help out where I can because you're so sweet and it's nice to hear your commentary. You try to be unbiased and fair while still taking a stand for the wellbeing of others. I have religious trauma and many atheists I follow are ex-something. It's nice to hear from someone who was never tainted by religion to say how certain religious ideologies are harmful to society. Also, I love the way you say "let's have a bit of a giggle" in some videos. It makes me smile. Thanks for the work you do. It's not easy having such a visible presence and you're kind heart is something that definitely inspires me to be a better person.

@zt_g

4 жыл бұрын

I meant an affiliate link for the book. Sorry, a bit drunk and I should read what I write before commenting. Stay awesome.

Lizzie Borden took an axe She gave her mother forty whacks When she saw what she had done She gave her father forty-one By the way, there is an interesting story of a crime in Newport, Rhode Island, where a woman was believed to have died from being burned alive (not a strange death at the time, 2nd leading cause of death for women at the time, due to long skirts, and cooking over a fire). After the woman was buried, someone had a dream where the victim said that her death was not an accident, and that she had been murdered. A judge reopened the case, and when the body was examined, a bullet wound was found, and someone was found guilty of murdering her. The person who was found guilty was an ancestor of Lizzie Borden. Obviously, this is a coincidence, and we shouldn't necessarily take the word of a case that was only reopened due to someone's dream, but it is still interesting.

It is hard to say if she was innocent or guilty. The last time I read a lot about the case I thought innocent. What did you finally decide?

@MsArtemis64

4 жыл бұрын

I can believe that she might not have killed her father because there doesn't appear to be enough time for her to have cleaned up. I do think that if she didn't commit the crimes herself, it's hard to believe she was not an accomplice. I feel that if she had been found guilty at the trial she would have spilled the whole story about who did the actual crime.

Just ordered the book from my local library.

Rachel dabbling in true crime! I’m obsessed! ❤️

Hello, fellow Stephanie Harlowe fan! I loved her coverage of this case. I’m leaning towards thinking that Lizzie did it, but she had plausible deniability

Great explanation. I only have one issue here, and it is the use of the word "circumstantial". In those times the public was ready to understand only one kind of evidence, the witness who stands up and shouts "I was there, I saw it with my own eyes, and this is what happened". Everything else (including, by the way, DNA tests) is circumstantial by definition. Now we know that the best evidence is circumstantial (by that definition). And we also know now that the witness evidence is frequently the worst of all evidence. No witness is ever devoid of a context (i.e. a set of circumstances) in which his/her testimony has to be evaluated. We all have prejudices, we all color our testimony to fit the story we want to tell, we all want to hide things about ourselves. In fact the only kind of evidence that we don't call "circumstantial" is absolutely, totally dependent on context; in other words, it is circumstantial.

My favorite Halloween treat 💀😍🎃🎃

Stephanie is amazing!

Take a shot everytime she says helluvalot

This sounds like the plot of a Gillian Flynn novel.

My home town!!

I question your use of the word "circumstantial" as being the same as "weak" or "unreliable".

@kokopuppy57342

4 жыл бұрын

Jim Fortune exactly! Circumstantial evidence is pretty good, but it requires you to make an inference. An example, for anyone wondering, would be something like “your glove was at the crime scene”. Nobody saw you at the crime scene leaving it but we can infer that it was most likely you.

@JimFortune

4 жыл бұрын

@@kokopuppy57342 Or "Your fingerprints were on the murder weapon." The irony is that direct evidence, like witness testimony, is some of the least reliable evidence.

@actingqween

4 жыл бұрын

@@kokopuppy57342 Or "Your DNA was found at the crime scene." If you live in the place that became a crime scene (like it's your home) it's not strange for your DNA to be there, but if you told the investigators that you have never been there before, it could look suspect. Or, if your skin cells were found in the victim's nails, and you have an unexplained scratch on your body, that could also suggest that you were involved, regardless of the location.

@0MelleJune0

4 жыл бұрын

On its own, circumstantial evidence allows for more than one explanation. You need more than one to reinforce your inference over another one.

who else literally just watched glam and gores video, spooky

4:17 at first I thought you said Kyra Robertson and that your dog had written a book

I love Stephanie Harlowe!! ☺️

So when I click on the audible link, it takes me to amazon uk. If I switch to audible Canada does that still support your channel? I could just go to audible but I want to try and go through you link.

@markbrae1599

4 жыл бұрын

Audible is part a of Amazon which is why it takes you through to the Amazon website xxx❤

@RoastedSaltedPeanut

4 жыл бұрын

@@markbrae1599 I know using affiliated links helps the creator, I'm just not sure if it'll still work if I use the link and then switch to audible.ca

@markbrae1599

4 жыл бұрын

@@RoastedSaltedPeanut as long as you are signed in it won't make a difference if you are on the uk site when joining the trial as all Amazon websites use the same database. So I wouldn't risk changing to audible Canada after you've clicked the link as you could lose Rachel her commission xxx❤

The only reason why I know who Lizzie Borden is is because of The Simpsons Halloween Special IV. She was part of the jury of the damned to decide the fate of Homer's soul. That's right, folks. Almost all of my knowledge of popular culture comes from cartoons I watched as a kid. Hehe!

@Garrison_the_Barbarian

4 жыл бұрын

@Paulie Doodle The Treehouse of Horror episodes were always my favorite. They were at times legitimately terrifying, most of which I blame on the end credits music and the female shriek during the Gracie Films logo. Good times! Good heart attack-inducing times! :)

Home town represents!

What happened to innocent until proven guilty And that We all grieve in our own way They judged her right away Some without even knowing her

Want another good murder mystery? Look up the Vallisca Axe Murder... a few years ago participated in an overnight investigation of the home

@relent-lass7510

4 жыл бұрын

I have a theory the Vilisca and the Borden murders are related Just a theory

@MystryssCrymsyn98

4 жыл бұрын

@@relent-lass7510 **MAYBE** ... only thing possible timing...Lizzie murders were in Aug of 1892..Villisca was nearly 20 years later in June of 1912. Its more likely they were related to an axe murder in Colorado 9 months earlier, 2 murders in Kansas a short time later - or the the Southern Pacific Railroad murders that occurred from 1911-1912

@relent-lass7510

4 жыл бұрын

MystryssCrymsyn98 but what if he had an accomplice, that was younger than him Plus we’ve seen murderers stop for awhile, then start up again I only thought of ir because both mean were hit in the face so bad, even their eyes were gone It’s just a theory though Ive seen a few others come to the same conclusion

@relent-lass7510

4 жыл бұрын

MystryssCrymsyn98 But remember during the break, there could have been axe murders that weren’t given to the public

Can you do OJ next. I loved that case, although I suppose it was two grossly murders.

@rickc2102

4 жыл бұрын

OJ's son did it.

I think it's most likely that Lizzie Borden killed her parents, based on the crime itself. But wasn't there another person in the house? A maid, or something? That's why one cannot say for sure that Lizzie was the one who did it, based on the few evidence there are. We'll just never know for sure, sadly.

If you have a lot of circumstantial evidence a case can be solid. Just saying.

To add to the speculation.... Here is an article about the structure of the orbital cortex in Lizzie Borden's family tree and the number of sociopaths found there. www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127888976 The amusing part was the discovery by the researcher on his own orbital cortex.

Interesting

Stephanie Harlowe for the win! If you like her content, you may also want to check out Danelle Hallan and LordanARTS (and their podcast, Crime After Crime) if you haven’t already. Danelle in particular has a recent penchant for doing cases that can teach a lesson about criminal investigations.

You look amazing in red lips. Great video.

Lucy borden took an axe gave her father 40 whacks when she saw what she had done she gave her mother 41.

90% just clicked to hear you say my name... (jk it's a fascinating topic and you cover it so well!!)

I have been fascinated by Lizzie Borden ever since I saw the made for TV movie in the 70s, with Elizabeth Montgomery. In that movie they depicted Lizzie removing her clothes altogether and committing the murders naked, and then bathing and getting dressed. Where did they get that? Was that just a Hollywood thing, or is there any actual evidence or testimony towards it?

hell of a lot

It’s not that hard to understand the processes done at the time. The forensics and norms we now have in place really were nonexistent then, we must remember that. Crime scene photos, sealing it off, interviewing everyone extensively right then, photos of other things, even where an autopsy was done - all are different now. I mean, it’s unheard of now to allow various people to sleep in the house with the bodies there, right after the crime happened. They were largely following the existing norms and did a pretty good (not perfect) job investigating. Lizzie was not an immediate suspect, also nothing visually indicated she would be - clothes, blood, weapon, etc. They searched for a few days and found no evidence such as bloody clothes, definitive weapon. Everything ultimately was circumstantial as there was no direct evidence - no witness to the crime or criminal, no bloody clothes, not caught in the act, no confession, no weapon. For the times I think the investigation was not done badly. Gradually they let go of their ‘bias’ in favor of Lizzie, to then suspect her. I think if she did it, she frickin’ masterminded it to perfection. I guess whomever did it, did so as well.

There's an Alfred Hicock's presents chapter about it. Also the uncle totally did it

@Billygoatsgrruff

Жыл бұрын

nup

While taking a bath while perparing your food

Loved the video! I believe lizzie did it

I have recorded Lizzie's trial testimony into a series of podcasts if that interests you.

Why would I watch an “incredible” source about a crime?

I have an interesting content idea! Backstory: I was never an internet person, but I got looking around a few years back and discovered KZread’s rabbit hole of conspiracy theorists. As someone raised Christian, critical thought was discouraged so I was pretty gullible. So ensued paranoia and confusion about reality. :( :( ....Not a good time. Eventually I realized many of those people “exposing lies” were big fat liners themselves... Enter critical thought. I learned how to decide what is most likely true, and then live accordingly. Like, is it more likely that our brain works in such a way that memories could be flawed, or that we’re switching between dimensions? Anyway now I’m pretty adamant that those who perpetrate this stuff with manipulative background music and such are deplorable!! They cause mental illness and maybe even suicide, divorce, who knows?? Kind of like religion. BUT... people LOVE conspiracy theory videos. It would be a service to human kind, and also be incredibly popular I’d guess, if you did videos debunking specific conspiracy theories. ❤️

Rachel is so beautiful.

dont forget the half brother

I'm not a native English speaker and I've never lived in America or the UK, but... Do you guys really have a nursery rhyme inspired by a woman murdering two people with an axe?? Why...?

@antifagoat6591

4 жыл бұрын

Yes. It goes: "Lizzie Borden took an axe, Gave her mother forty whacks, When she saw what she had done, She gave her father forty-one." As for why, there are a lot of screwed up nursery rhymes. This case was high-profile at the time and kids loved the horror of it.

I hear you can study history and at Harvard for 60k... You might only be interested in old true crime, but one of the most touching stories I've heard in my life is the story of Max Gelman. Don't watch the first video on it that pops up, it's not the best. The best one is Dateline version, he talks in it himself. That is a sad story. His sentence was way too light.

You like Stephanie Harlowe? But why? She deletes criticisms and she praises Von Daniken!

I feel as if this story proves that sexism does not serve society. Not saying she did it, but it seems probable.

The TV series is actually very good. The movie was garbage.

just my opinion you sound very bias yourself

I identify as a goose. Guess that makes me transgander.

@rickc2102

4 жыл бұрын

It makes you a Valdagans.

For those interested, she gets to the fucking point at 7:10.